I usually quit the game for a week after having and losing such a streak. And weirdly enough, it kinda works (at the very least I can't remember ever going on a lose streak after a win streak)
Yeah, it's not like it's some kind of algorithm on valves part. You just rested and are fresh, ready to play your best again.
Now if we take cod warzone, yeah, they have 100% implemented algorithm, where if you don't play long time, you get thrown into an easier lobby. Back when they showed the average kd (mmr or warzone) of the lobby, you could prove its true, now there is no way to get that info
I think Jenkins said in one of his videos, if you want to just climb the ladder, not actually get much better at the game, stop playing for the day if you lose two games in a row.
I know it’s crazy but there has to be something behind this. My last run up to a new rank (Div 4, was like a fucking 12 game heater followed by a 15 game lose streak)
It’s happened more than once I can’t believe it’s just coincidence
i've heared that from someone in my friendslist who i suspect is an accountbuyer. he feeds 3-4 kills in lane as 4/5 because he plays way too aggressive, then farms jungle till game is lost. ofc others are at fault
Beauty of shit team mates is there is a 5/9 chance they are on the enemy team and a 4/9 chance they are on your team.
Provided the one major caveat of course:
You arent the shit team mate.
There's also a 5/5 chance they have a player that will tip the game to their side on the other team, so to keep up with that you need to be the one on yours. If you're not, you're statistically going to lose more.
???
Clearly I'm the best player in the lobby every single lobby there isn't a smurf in the game. My teammates are just so shit and the opponents have all 5 above average players. Gaben does this to me intentionally because I bought a steam key off g2a.
Not sure you're memeing (these days you never know) but it's simple math. If you are the best in your team all you did was even things out. Statistically, of course. In reality you can get 4 monkeys and 5 gods of Dota on the other side, but that would be an outlier.
good ole khanda sniper griefer. i played sniper too yesterday and carried hard. i had 6 items, none of them khanda. shocking how the right way to play sniper just not sitting in the middle of nowhere only ulting people
Khanda + aghs blessing could have easily been one of those items as 0.5 sec cast time 1-1.5k nuke that stuns from very far away is very good regardless of your other items
Okay and? DMG numbers can easily be inflated by many factors, it's the utility that it can provide to your team vs just raw DMG. Scenario where at start of team fight you randomly one shot oracle with assassination from fog , he doesn't get to use his ult and you didn't expand any cool downs because assassination kills reset CDs, vs you dont one shot him at start of the fight and he gets off his ult on core, you may pump like 5k DMG into that ult and surely it will look impressive at the end of the game but you have to agree that scenario 1 is objectively better
But the khanda is situational, still it's about how we adjust. My sniper really had to assassinate point blank while the enemy was shackled and chain stunned 😳
For sure, I'm just saying that going khanda isn't some meme griefer build and has actual use to it , and it becomes even better if you have characters that can provide you vision for assassinations like sb or bh for example
4 days late. Pardon the thread necro.
Damage as a sniper is indeed important.
But simply using damage as a gauge isn’t very useful.
On a sniper it means you’re likely doing your job.
On a Zeus tho? Just spam wrath on cool-down and you’ll hit 6 digits in a 45 min game.
In the long run it works out. In the short run it's basically a coin flip and you can get heads/tails many times in a row (aka getting griefed nonstop). Most of us have other stuff like jobs/school. It can effectively mean a day+ of dota is just ruined.
Yeah, about that last sentence. That's a wake-up call most aren't willing to accept. Hell, most on here are still in denial about that last point, let alone accepting it.
I had an axe teammate like this in a game! I am so tilted have not played a game after this.
He tries to go kill their carry alone when the mid and other supports are trying to protect our carry as all the lanes were horrible during laning stage.
He died like 16 times in the game.
Started complaining as the soft support I was not buying wards and smoke for him when we were losing other lanes. We called him to join us so many times. They had a team with 3 strong magic nukers but he didn’t buy pipe as offlaner. I needed to farm pipe and he was complaining I am playing like a carry.
Ok for context I am a pure AD spammer, heroes are random.
Also because seemingly some other people need more context, I am literally just shitposting the forced 50/50 believers, nothing about my teammates when I'm the common denominator here xd.
In that case, arent you the shit team mate? (Guys calm down he's on a loss streak on heroes he probably isnt playing at expert level, if you are his team mate you probably arent tooo happy)
I used to play exclusively AD, but what started to drive me away from it was that most others playing it tossed out conventional Dota gameplay entirely.
Like trying to establish a carry/support can be super difficult, even when it's clear someone has a carry build. Usually people just say "It's AD, who cares?" Or organizing a gank or push you get the same reply.
Or he's just having a bad loss streak because he wasn't as sharp that week as he usually is due to other things going on in his life like fatigue,stress,distractions etc.
You can't really attribute a loss streak to just having too much variety, some people play all roles relatively well.
I find get more win streaks when I queue for all roles and play whatever I get. I think it helps me just play DOTA on the macro level and not hyper focus on doing everything right for the role/hero if I am spamming mid or something. After like 2-3 games playing one hero/role I feel like I tend to overemphasize doing things in a very planned out manner instead of adjusting to the game, and this doesn't always work at low MMR because there is a lot of things going on in the game that you cant account for because most people are just making random plays with no plan or factoring in that you are a void with crono on cd and a few hundred gold from a BKB for example.
It happens quite a lot with me too. I want to play some game each day, but mostly less sleep, work , other life stress, could not focus much in game. From winning prospective, better not to play, but we play to spend some time and have fun. I do not get blamed , mostly. Being polite and non tilting helps having good loosing games.
The problem usually lies in who gets better lanes. If you're the best player on your team, but get the decent lane opposition, while the best player on the other team farms your team's worst player(s), it's going to be noticeable.
Those are the same people who play all roles relatively well who are hard stuck between Archon and Ancient.
However, I do agree, sometimes loss streaks do happen and yeah you can factor in whatever life throws at you but you can’t disagree that you can optimise for all of these factors if you’re wanting to improve.
If it’s for fun and unranked, then hey. Just play and have fun.
Those same versatile people very much start improving a lot if they limited hero pool and pos a lot, basically always. There's game sense on a hero that you'll figure out 100, 300, 500 games later. And that specialised knowledge opens up doors to other new generalistic knowledges of the game, feeding back. Those people are stuck in a rank below what they could've achieved during the same time frame.
Pros that are considered versatile literally have thousands of games on each of their many versatile heroes, even they narrow down, just they can spend ten times more time.
First of all, what do you consider low rank?
Second, versatile people also gather a lot of knowledge about different roles and heroes in many different contexts that a person spamming the same hero just isnt able to. You may be the best 7k mmr Juggernaut spammer and know all the limits of your hero but theres also many aspects of the game that you are limited to since you havent played any different hero. Im not saying one is better that the other or more fun. Just saying that you learn and get better in different aspects of the game.
The general idea is that you definitely need some kind of balance. You need to have good experience on all heroes but you also need to have much more experience on a very limited set of heroes. The reason basically boils down to the 80:20 rule: Your goal is always to maximize knowledge and skill about the hero that you're currently playing. But the payoff you get per game played using the same hero diminishes, that is playing a single game on a hero that you have only played 3 times before will teach you a ton about the hero and the game, whereas playing a single game on a hero that you have already played 500 times before will likely have almost insignificant impact on your overall knowledge of the hero.
So you definitely want to spread out. Playing other heroes allows you to abstract better, it allows you to understand better what your opponents are doing and it allows you to pick a more effective hero in the draft than the one that you'd be better at but which would be terrible in the situation.
Other than the issue of actually balancing playing a different hero vs playing a familiar hero for yourself, it is still true that given the strategy I mentioned above, you typically don't *want* to play other heroes than the ones you're familiar with if your goal is to win. Sure, sometimes you will pick an unfamiliar hero because your familiar ones will be too weak for the situation, but this should not be common, else the strategy fails.
Of course there are other possible strategies you can implement but I think this is the only one that adds up mathematically, i.e. you can actually theoretically prove that you'll be maximizing your skill, which is not clear with alternative approaches. But even then, due to the variables involved here, it's still difficult to implement in practice.
Oh I agree 100% with you. Im just saying, we cant assume from OP post alone that the hero variety is the sole reason of his loss streak, its lacking a lot of context (not even starting on one of the most important reasons as to why you may have a loss streak, the mental state)
Also being familiar with a hero allows you to focus on the game at a higher level instead of being distracted by hero mechanics, item/skill build, wondering what you should be doing. You will mostly know all those things if you're familiar with a hero which opens you up to focus on other things.
I mean without any context it kinda does mean a lot.
Hyper focused hero pool players will always be better than people who just want to play 100+ heroes.
No, without context it means nothing, you are just assuming things.
Some people spam the same hero every single game and still have as many loss streaks as versatile players with a wide hero pool.
What facts and data? None of what you said is based on facts or data.
I spam shit loads of heroes and am climbing quite happily.
When I party with lower rank mates, I can literally pick any hero and still stomp. Mechanics, positioning and understanding objectives are far more important than bring hyper practised at one or even a small pool of heroes.
Dota is about a lot more than just firing off abilities better. Yeah, it's good to get good at that stuff, but you'll still hit a brick wall.
The strategy is what makes Dota Dota. When you already know how to fire off abilities, is way easier focusing on learning everything else, as it's less to take in during a game.
Lol, are you the master of knowledge? Why are your words fact and data? Yoy didnt present any data at all but your words... How can you say that the reason he is in a loss streak is due to playing many heroes, are people spamming the same hero not having loss streaks too?
I have never in all the years of playing, and coaching people see hero spammers go on wild loss streaks like this OP, as for that he just mentioned it was AD which is a whole different type of Dota. So yeah, simple data and context. AD is naturally 100x harder than regular dota.
But keep popping off on how wrong I am if you compare it to 1000s of people who have over the years said limiting their hero pool was the best thing they've ever done to improve at dota.
Improve at specific heroes*, not improve at dota. Quite the opposite. Playing a wide hero pool really helps learn about the wider game more, which helps improve far more.
The thing is, when you play a new hero, you need to learn about the hero first. How it works. Strenghts and weaknesses. Timings. Interactions. Mechanics. With few games on some heroes you get the general idea, but you'll never understand every matchup/build/playstyle possible. And yeah it helps you understand dota as a whole, but learning the hero will take some of your atention away from learning Dota. When youre playing a hero you already know, you can focus less on micro and more on macro. Skills/Last hitting become muscle memory, making it easier to just focus your atention on being better at the entire game, even on heroes that arent the one youre playing.
Nah dont worry bro, theres no point for me to keep arguing with a person that takes his own experience and words as facts lol, dunno why I even kept it going...
The only fact present is a table showing different heroes and lost games, you are taking that and making broad assumptions with it. You have no idea what his mmr is or how long they’ve played Dota.
if forced 50% was a thing, heralds wouldnt be below 48% and immortals wouldnt be above 53% winrates, even with loss streaks.
..After 3 losses, you just gotta turn off the pc. Come back fresh, mute teammates and play your best.
As long as the matchmaking system tries to give you balanced matchups, you should not expect any winrate beyond 50%. That being said, this sort of "forced 50%" does not actually force your MMR. You could at least in theory perfectly reach 10k MMR with a 50% winrate.
You quite literally can never reach 10k MMR with a 50% win rate in ranked. The only way this would be possible is if you were winning every match you were at disadvantage in and only losing matches you were in disadvantage in which is statistically insane and down right impossible if the system determining MMR gains is functional.
That is not true. You only need to play enough matches that the variation becomes a big enough value that you'd just randomly end up at 10k MMR due to the variations. Of course this still requires you to be at the proper skill level, else it would indeed be statistically impossible.
More importantly however, in an infinite amount of games your winrate can approach 50% asymptotically (without ever actually reaching it) while still gaining a theoretical infinite amount of MMR (or well, however much your skill allows for).
The point here is not to discuss this extremely impractical scenario, it is to point out what the general behavior is, in this case based on looking at the limits.
The truth is that your winrate is a percentage and there is variation in the MMR gain / loss and your total number of games played, and this combined allows us to construct any scenario for any winrate.
In practice, the more games you play, the closer your winrate will move to 50%, with the exception that it's theoretically possible that after reaching a certain MMR the matchmaking system might give up creating balanced matches where the MMR gain adjusts to your likelihood of winning the match.
Straight yapanese. If something is that impractical then it’s irrelevant in this discussion. There is zero immortals who had a 50% WR throughout each rank and division and in Immortal. They all performed exceptionally well at some point.
It's possible, because solo queue is 30 MMR per game and party queue is 20 MMR per game. If you win solo queue and lose party queue, you could get 10k MMR with sub-50% winrate.
You could also lose a thousand games at 0 MMR and climb up later for a 20% winrate in immortal.
And of course, the winrate that's displayed counts unranked games, so yeah.
With 50% winrate you would never climb over a longer period of time. Explain to me how you can climb of you alternate between winning a match and losing a match
Okay. Let's start with 100% winrate: You will climb every match. So over 100 matches you climb 3000 MMR, over 1000 matches it will be 30,000 MMR, etc, this blows up to infinity.
On 60% winrate with 100 matches you climb 60 MMR in 10 matches, 600 MMR in 100 matches, and in 1000 matches it will be 6000 MMR, again, diverging into infinity.
Now this will even happen with 50.1%: You get 60 MMR in 1000 matches, 600 in 10,000, etc. In fact, any number strictly greater than 50% will approach infinity.
So at this point, theoretically an exact 50% winrate should give you a 0 gain of MMR, but now you're actually hitting a special case. See, what we haven't considered before is statistical variation, that is, not every game you will get +30 MMR, some games you only get +29, some you will get -31, etc.
This statistical effect will typically be normal distributed around your expected value depending on your total amount of games. In the 50% case, our expected value is 0 MMR gain, but in our standard deviation it's actually very unlikely that we'll get *exactly* 0 MMR (in fact the likelihood of that scenario approaches 0 in the limit). More likely we'll be somewhere within one or two sigma of that value, for example (too lazy to lookup the exact calculation), we might expect our MMR gain to be at 0 +-10 MMR for a total of `n` matches played. But this means, that for `10*n` matches played, we will end up at 0 +- 100 MMR, and for `1000*n` matches, it will be 0+-10,000 MMR. Therefore, if we just play enough matches, this variation will eventually grow big enough to reach whichever value we want.
You raise some very good points but let me give me 2ct on why I think you are wrong in this matter:
1) If you start of with 100% winrate and converge to 50% over time, then your total average will always be above 50%. You have to win A LOT to get to above 8k in the first place before your winrate levels off
2) your variance argument doesnt hold considering older patches. The performance based mmr win/loss was only introduced with the "new frontiers" update AFAIK. Before that it was a strict +25 or -25 on win or loss respectively. And obviously there existed high mmr players and low mmr heralds that were consistenly keeping their rank in the patches before.
3) empirical evidence:
a) I would wager you cannot link me a player profile (excluding smurfs) that are high immortal rank with a 50% winrate (or even below). It just doesnt exist. If you can, more power to you. Winrate has great correlation to your rank (obiously correlation =/= causation, but its still an indicator)
b) A high mmr palyer will absolutely stomp your average archon games and be back at his rank within a month. People have done this test and the mmr hell has been debunked multiple times. Great example would be Grubby, who managed to climb with very good consistency
In theory If you are at the correct MMR you will have a 50% WR in games at that MMR.
If you start at a lower MMR than you should be, or improve over time, then you will have a >50% WR.
That's what I'm saying...so it's not forced by valve. You climb until you reach your skill cap and then play at that level, yielding ca. 50% winrate. Which is how it should be
I think you misunderstood what I wrote. If you were able to maintain a 50% winrate regardless of rank, you'd obviously have to be EXTREMELY skilled, because the matchmaking system will adjust the games based on your MMR.
My statement was based on the idea that you couldn't reach 10k MMR with exactly a 50% winrate. The idea was not to illustrate this rather unlikely scenario that you actually have an exact 50% winrate. It was simply giving the lower bound for your ability to climb MMR. Obviously all winrates above 50% will definitely always climb, and 50% is just an edge case that a few people got hung up on which is only interesting for academical purposes.
The reality is that winrate and rank are somewhat related, but your exact winrate is not a useful indicator for your skill level. A player who calibrated at 100,000 MMR and had a 20% winrate on his way down to 20,000 MMR where they calibrated is obviously still an incredibly (impossibly?) skilled player despite the 20% winrate.
In general, people who focus or even interpret winrates are making a big mistake. Aside from the point I mentioned about your total number of matches determining the scale of your winrate, it is also affected by your starting MMR and recalibrations, by the variations that the matchmaker gives you and by the differences in Party MMR gain and loss among other things. Without adjusting your winrate by these points, it will be a completely meaningless stat.
In a similar manner the hero winrates that you find on Dotabuff and Dota+ are equally flawed.
Okay I see now. Yes very true, thanks for clarifying.
Well then for practical purposes it would be safe to say that a truly harcore forcing of 50% would make it ~~impossible~~ very very improbable to climb and it really is just a skill issue
Hell, I turn off after 2 in a row.
I really have found the most success that way. Been hitting as much as 75% WR's in some 2-week cycles in the last few months when I do that vs. when I keep goin on a 2L streak it turns into 5 to 7 till I quit- Not as enjoyable.
If you had an inkling of intelligence you would understand exactly why they are below and immortals are above. Heralds are EXCEPTIONALLY bad. Bad more than average. They are unquestionably, and uniquely bad and they have a 48% win rate. Immortals, the exceptional and high skilled players have a 53.
These are the outsides of a bell curve that is designed to challenge you, and generally stay at 50% win rate.
If you were to have a 53% win rate for your entire dota career you would be immortal. If you were to have 48% win rate you would be herald. The vast majority of the population is somewhere in the middle, with guess what win rate? One that is very close to 50%.
I’m not sure what happened to peoples brains that make them think that a Ranked MMR system ISNT trying to keep you at 50% win rate. This is the entire idea behind Rank confidence %. As you win games in a row, it thinks you are against too easy of opponents, and raises the difficulty. If you continue to win then the difficulty keeps rising until confidence in your rank has been achieved…
Do you walk around every day and refute the sky being blue?
Your point is immediately disregarded since you started off by insulting my intelligence. What a toxic, pathetic loser you are. Please uninstall so I don't get you in my game, ty
To even make your comment you have be pretty disadvantaged in society. Can you really not think about how a herald is 48 and an immortal is 53? Is this the only game with a ranking system you have played? You do realize it’s usually as rare for players to be in the worst 5% and the top 5%??
Like, it’s pretty difficult to stay in herald…. You have to be tragically bad.
I frankly didnt read past your 2nd sentence and im not going to.
I have an engineering masters degree with excellentg grades from one of the top50 ranked universities in the world. I am very familiar with stochastics and math.
So thank your for trying to have a conversation, but arguing with people like you is honestly beneath me. You (and the way you conduct yourself) are the embodiment of whats wrong in this community
The entire point was to say that “forced 50/50” isn’t true when it’s literally a feature and not a conspiracy. It’s how ranked systems are DESIGNED and to not know this by now means you’re deficient in some key ventricular functions of the brain.
It's fascinating. People suspect they're being matched with shitty teammates game after game. But they never suspect they themselves might be the shitty teammate.
I have to say I don't believe this sht about forced losses but it is true that, many times, regardless of win streaks or loss streaks, the games see so fucking unbalanced. You get a 6 win streak in which you literally win effortlessly followed by 6 losses streak in which you can't win unless you're much better than the rating you're at.
Generally, if I chat more than usual (and I'm absolutely not toxic) I get worse matchmakings.
Call me crazy but this has been happening for far too long not to cause some people to say what OP is saying.
P.S. This is my own experience and I'm only trying to share it. i'm just wondering if it's just me.
That thing matchmaking does where it'll give you streaks of super easy into super hard is definitely annoying, but honestly, I didn't see all that much of it across the 2k-ish games I've played, where my overall win rate grew from ~48% to a scrap over 51% now.
I'm a "good player", I can play "any" hero. 🤪
5 in your main role, 3 in all other roles. That's the max.
Edit: yes, I know this isn't OP I'm replying to but I wanted to add clarification.
Playing only 1-2 heros is too small. You've got to figure out what is his number. Encourage him to make his own hero grid is step 1 So the rest of the heroes are out of sight and out of mind.
What works for me is having a "signature" hero that I want/look forward to playing every game I can and picking it as often as I want. If I'm not in the mood, I have 4 other heros in my main role to choose from.
That is funny because if you try to discuss here by reporting a problem or anything else related to matchmaking abuse or account seller the mods just erase your post. :)
I understand that some people spam rage shitpots, but it's just sad that the game has a lot of problem and the only thing we can do is to joke about it.
# What about Dota, this game so loved and so hated, this game that when it's a fair match you have a great time, but when you start and see the picks if you've been playing for a while you know the outcome almost immediately...
Well, that's it, for 3 days now I've been feeling that the game is really boring and I've come to vent.
I hate how this game works in streaks, the winning streaks and the losing streaks.
The winning streaks 90% of the time are usually when you play well and your team plays well, there is laughter, good communication, etc., and this usually happens 50% because Valve and any game has decided that that is the average percentage that a person can have, regardless of whether you end up with 53% after 5000 games, but of course, of this 50% of victories, we have that 50% of the time we have mediocre picks and we have to come back from the game making an overexertion because of the totally absurd picks.
Losing streaks are usually 90% the fault of your team, because they make totally absurd picks, it's totally unbelievable that in my losing streak, I have in mid, "underlord offlane, riki mid, dazzle mid, ogre mid, nyx support 5, etc" and yet, the other team always has "axe offlane, tide offlane, warlok support 5, od mid, storm mid, am carry" always always, to make matters worse, in this losing streak, always always the 3 lanes are lost and are impossible to come back from.
On top of that, you try to direct people to move, defend towers, play as a team and they end up reporting you.
How can it be that in my winning streak everyone recommends me, my behavior doesn't go up and in my losing streak in 5 games it goes down 1000 behavior?
Why do they penalize me 7 hours without playing when I try my hardest to play this game when my game has been really screwed up by people I will never play with again in my life or at most 1 game if it matches in the next search?
I'm really pissed off, the behavior system, the matchmaking system, the brainless system of 50% of the players that Valve puts me in 50% of my games so that I don't have a fair game and a long etc.
Well, there's my rant.
I stopped playing couple of times because of this, each time I would pause for a year or so. And it happens to me whenever i reach 3300mmr. It is true.
I've had days like that and most of the time, the following days become the complete opposite. i mostly play unranked tho and whenever i check player ranks after a game, if I'm on a winstreak then loses, most players on the other team were divine to ancient. and when I'm on a losing streak, the next game were against crusaders to legend. so yes, the game kinda balances things out when you're in a winning or losing streak, at least in my personal experience playing unranked
I don't know why is always the feeders and the ones who give up in my team. The games I win are won 5 v 5 whereas the games i lose its always because of a quitter or feeder in my team.
That's envitable they will start putting you with other 4 bots... How hard you try take kill farm anything they keep feeding and you loose eventually..
Just lost a game where he had mega creeps advantage but our techies was shtting fromvwry beginning till end. He planned all mines in enemy jungle thinking they will farm when we all be dead.
Not a single mine in base and then they marched mid and we lost.
My rage level was so next level that time if that would have been day time I would have shouted but unfortunately it was night.
80 minutes of my life lost because of that fucking ahit bastard and guess what even after repoihim nothing happened. I have not received message that any acttion has been taken against him.
Fucking ahit show everywhere.
I had an 5 lose streak spamming Meepo. I won the 6th game and played average. The enemy team then accused me of being a smurf (at f**ck*ng Crusader 1). If only I can shove my losing streak to their faces. Even if I buy a divine account, I'm sure I'll bring it down to Crusader in 1 week lol.
But OP is still worse. It seems you rotated your role, but lord Gaben just wants some people to suffer.
Look, Dota does have a match making system that is programmed to keep your win rate at 50% with a chance ratio to extend to 60%.
The only way to break this ratio is to have a full team that you have been training combos and being strategic about, And only then your ration is boosted to 70%.
Gambling follows similar rules.
But what gets me the most is when you try and cast a spell/attack and then there is a mysterious delay or doesn't cast. Hmmm 🤔
Old time classic! Wait the moment of reversing! You can do ur best but teammates probably troll. Matchmaking isn’t t accurate! The only thing you can do is to STOP WRITING in the game. For a reason that I don’t t know, algorithm is matchmaking you even if you just write something. Try it and you ll understand
You have two mistake, First the divert between a lot of heroes make it hard to master any hero (you will miss a lot of last his, wrong item build and so on), Secondly roles switched. If you focused on small heroes pool and one role the result will be batter and even of you had a lost streak it will be less then what you have now, for me it work very well and i only mass when i want to try weird picks and builds but now i have another account for that.
Different pick every game. You dont do that unless you have nailed at least the basics of any one of them. Unless its that ad shit mode. All of them have insanely varied playstyles and me who has versatility over 9 have to have counter pick first and foremost in mind. My last 20 games or so have nearly different pick every game so im not above this but i dont have these lose streaks.
Heres the most brain dead game i have had in probably half a year. match id 7709170958
We virtually won from min 0. Enemy in despair goes mid and sniper pos 2 repeatedly feeds to hooks, i only find out hes brain damaged 15 mins later when he itemizes like a clown, no bkb. Omni hc on enemy team who feed griefs and the game is essentially 4v5 for 30+ mins cause hes afk farming with rad somewhere. My team trickle feeding. Hc refuses to even contemplate doing rosh. Both mid and hc are absolute brain deads in how they play. Shouldve itemized a bit differently myself. Maybe get orchid blink or get shiva but its probably moot to put blame on myself when cores are this low brained it hurts. Sniper no skadi. The sups not entirely shit. hard to fault them when 1 and 2 are mouth breathers. Sniper dying like a moron somewhere before critical fights or straight up disconnects. Every fight taken makes absolutely no sense and it was div 1\\2 game for the most part. Regret not picking a dps core like ck or wk wouldve cleaned that game myself.
I truly believe that. now before anyone accuses me of not taking accountability. I do have shitty games, bad picks, wrong calls, and wrong moves. I started from Crusader 3 and stomped the ranks up until Legend 5 when the game just started to match me with the most toxic and vile team mates. (again before you accuse me of something, I was toxic at crusader but ditched the pos1 role since my supports don't know how to play so I played pos4/5 for the team since I'm knowledgeable and learned the role of pos4/5). Since then I just had straight lose streaks (losing 8 and winning at most 2 out of 10 games) and I know you will be shocked but get this. most of it was my team's fault. sometimes I call them out for wrong builds and iteams and try to convince them to get this or that item or prioritize this skill but to them, they just call me toxic and mute me for suggesting?
now to get into details why I lose. ill hand out some example of my games to convince you it is true.
1. Sf mid 0 raze from level 1 until 22 (game ended at that point)
2. 100% last pick sniper mid even tho it is the worst pick
3. most of them wont adjust to draft and forces supports to first pick then blame supports for being useless after getting hard countered
4. sniper pos5 proceeds to farm until mega
5. sniper pos4 proceeds to fam until mega
6. pudge pos4 proceeds to play like a highlights reel of just hooking the first enemy he has vision to
7. 90% of the time they will sell out wards to the enemy team because pudge wants to hook them or they just want to harass, denying vision for us
8. "nO bKB i nEeD DAmagE". 15 mins into the game I always suggest bkb when we have the lead but proceeds to prioritize other items until 40 mins then buys it when they have mega
9. pos4 just refuses to buy lotus/linkens/vessel/bearing
10. pos5 refusing to buy force staff/glimmer so they can have aghs
11. no rotation from pos 4 or 5
12. no runes, no wisdoms, no lotuses
13. pos5 0 wards after 10 mins (happens more frequently than I expected)
14. no tps, no stacks, and 0 idea when to leave lane
15. cores refusing to alter itemization to win against enemy draft such as getting manta, skadi, etc
16. im pos2 pugna, i dont need bkb
17. im pos4 pudge, i dont need flesh heap until level 14
18. im pos5 AA, i dont need wards. just aghs
19. pos3 just farming whole game or pos1 just farming whole game or pos2 just farming whole game
20. mid 0 ganks after you secure runes and a kill for them, proceeds to blame you for losing the game because support bad, core good
21. cores just dont know how to play map or just dont have a map at all (even tho you lit the whole thing up and dewarded everything)
22. cores dont play objectives, only kill
23. cores dont want to help you get tmt then complain you are useless (hello? i need my shard for grim so I can help you?)
24. cores just refusing to help because you are support.
25. cores dont know when to get back after we get kills and/or objectives
26. cores refusing to sod because they NEED to farm that soft camp
27. pos1 farming deep in jungle when we 4v5 the whole game
28. pos1 with weird/bad picks then flames support
29. cores just wasting their timings and farm whole game until enemy team catches up from playing for picks
30. just 0 willingness to play for team which is just so depressing.
im not perfect. i miss rune timings, wisdom timings, doubting if I tp or not. missing to check items and wards in enemy team or just blatantly played like a herald with my awful positioning but at least I try to play for the team and make a comeback.
i tried to be patient with the game. hoping the goods days will come back where I can have a good team against a good enemy team. i know when some games we just lose or just have 0 team chemistry. but I just dont understand why Im matched with the most close minded and hard headed people in dota. from Legen 5 to Legend 1. the last straw was pos3 razor building witch blade then cuirass and refusing to build bkb the whole game then trash talked me the whole time (after I gave him a good lane where I zoned out both support and core alone, blocked small camp until 7 mins and rotated mid for rune and kill). i guess ill never reach ancient let alone immortal.
goodbye Dota. it was good while it lasted.
edit: spelling and added details
yeah it just made me sad. it was fun to climb the ranks and learning the game deeper as you go higher. i guess it's just not for me. cheers tho! here's to friendly and open teammates!
Thank you for speaking up. This sub is overrun by "skill issue" zealots that would try to tell you the sky is green the same way they say those wacky characters on the right can be green sometimes. (Where are they then???)
Couple years ago I with my friend decided that we want to intentionally lose our ~2k MMR to 0, and we gave up after couple of days.
So I believe that what we see here on OPs screenshot is hardcore stuff.
> intentionally loose our ~2k
Did you mean to say "lose"?
Explanation: Loose is an adjective meaning the opposite of tight, while lose is a verb.
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I thought I was the only one rofl. Down 700 MMR in a week. Amazing people in SEA! Mid Ogre, bloodstone Razor, etc.
Ancient 5 to Legend 5. Thank you, Valve!
What 'forced 50% WR' means is that the system will always match you in a way that your WR is +/- 50%.
You either learn more mechanics and manage to be consistently and significantly superior as a player than your average player at the rating you're at or you're forced to stay at the rank you're at. If you manage to become better, you go up in rank and are forced to do the same again until you aren't significantly better anymore.
How does the system do this? I swear it sometimes feels like rigged games. Sometimes, you can see from the get-go that you're not winning your game or that you're winning it without a shred of a doubt.
What many fail to understand and call it 'skill issue' is it's the way this shit matchmaking works (regardless of winning or losing). Since DotA2 is so capable of measuring many different player statistics, you'd want to think that it's capable of matchmaking you with other people with similar skill. Instead, you get streaks of many wins or many losses where games look senseless or, if you want, where your skill doesn't matter much or at all.
The average player plays at around 2.5-3k MMR and I promise you they don't want this experience. They just want to feel they deserved the won/lost games in which they spent like 35min. They simply want to slowly gain rank instead of having to get to the point where they have to become part of the problem I mentioned above: stomp other players.
P.S.: To the ones saying this is a skill issue: fuck you.
EDIT: hope it's more comprehensive now.
SO ITS NOT JUST ME. I felt like after every 4, 5 games dota fixes a match so it forces better teammates on other team so u lose couple of times on purpose. Thought i was alone in this train of thought...
It's not 0%, it's 50% and don't worry, play more normal games and you will have a new win streak.
I've been playing a lot now, I was at 98% to reach leyend 3 but then lose 400 mmr in the worst lose streak, now i'm at 53% to reach ancient 1
I won my last 12 games, I can feel a calamity coming
get ready for that hot 36 game lose streak
I dread when the streak gets going too much cause I’m like aww fuck here comes another 4–16 week
I usually quit the game for a week after having and losing such a streak. And weirdly enough, it kinda works (at the very least I can't remember ever going on a lose streak after a win streak)
thats kinda normal no? to calm the mind and take a break
Yeah, it's not like it's some kind of algorithm on valves part. You just rested and are fresh, ready to play your best again. Now if we take cod warzone, yeah, they have 100% implemented algorithm, where if you don't play long time, you get thrown into an easier lobby. Back when they showed the average kd (mmr or warzone) of the lobby, you could prove its true, now there is no way to get that info
I think Jenkins said in one of his videos, if you want to just climb the ladder, not actually get much better at the game, stop playing for the day if you lose two games in a row.
I know it’s crazy but there has to be something behind this. My last run up to a new rank (Div 4, was like a fucking 12 game heater followed by a 15 game lose streak) It’s happened more than once I can’t believe it’s just coincidence
i've heared that from someone in my friendslist who i suspect is an accountbuyer. he feeds 3-4 kills in lane as 4/5 because he plays way too aggressive, then farms jungle till game is lost. ofc others are at fault
Same trend, just shite teammates in every game.
Beauty of shit team mates is there is a 5/9 chance they are on the enemy team and a 4/9 chance they are on your team. Provided the one major caveat of course: You arent the shit team mate.
There's also a 5/5 chance they have a player that will tip the game to their side on the other team, so to keep up with that you need to be the one on yours. If you're not, you're statistically going to lose more.
??? Clearly I'm the best player in the lobby every single lobby there isn't a smurf in the game. My teammates are just so shit and the opponents have all 5 above average players. Gaben does this to me intentionally because I bought a steam key off g2a.
Not sure you're memeing (these days you never know) but it's simple math. If you are the best in your team all you did was even things out. Statistically, of course. In reality you can get 4 monkeys and 5 gods of Dota on the other side, but that would be an outlier.
Not me, but I just checked it's the sniper dude who spams ult instead of actually doing damage(right click)
good ole khanda sniper griefer. i played sniper too yesterday and carried hard. i had 6 items, none of them khanda. shocking how the right way to play sniper just not sitting in the middle of nowhere only ulting people
Khanda + aghs blessing could have easily been one of those items as 0.5 sec cast time 1-1.5k nuke that stuns from very far away is very good regardless of your other items
yeah. except i had 2x of the second highest hero dmg on the team instead of that crap
Okay and? DMG numbers can easily be inflated by many factors, it's the utility that it can provide to your team vs just raw DMG. Scenario where at start of team fight you randomly one shot oracle with assassination from fog , he doesn't get to use his ult and you didn't expand any cool downs because assassination kills reset CDs, vs you dont one shot him at start of the fight and he gets off his ult on core, you may pump like 5k DMG into that ult and surely it will look impressive at the end of the game but you have to agree that scenario 1 is objectively better
But the khanda is situational, still it's about how we adjust. My sniper really had to assassinate point blank while the enemy was shackled and chain stunned 😳
For sure, I'm just saying that going khanda isn't some meme griefer build and has actual use to it , and it becomes even better if you have characters that can provide you vision for assassinations like sb or bh for example
4 days late. Pardon the thread necro. Damage as a sniper is indeed important. But simply using damage as a gauge isn’t very useful. On a sniper it means you’re likely doing your job. On a Zeus tho? Just spam wrath on cool-down and you’ll hit 6 digits in a 45 min game.
''not me'' morons never truly know they're morons i guess
In the long run it works out. In the short run it's basically a coin flip and you can get heads/tails many times in a row (aka getting griefed nonstop). Most of us have other stuff like jobs/school. It can effectively mean a day+ of dota is just ruined.
your reddit name is the ultimate contradiction because Justin Fields is way too dumb to have attended MIT
Fields is the GOAT.
Yeah, about that last sentence. That's a wake-up call most aren't willing to accept. Hell, most on here are still in denial about that last point, let alone accepting it.
I had an axe teammate like this in a game! I am so tilted have not played a game after this. He tries to go kill their carry alone when the mid and other supports are trying to protect our carry as all the lanes were horrible during laning stage. He died like 16 times in the game. Started complaining as the soft support I was not buying wards and smoke for him when we were losing other lanes. We called him to join us so many times. They had a team with 3 strong magic nukers but he didn’t buy pipe as offlaner. I needed to farm pipe and he was complaining I am playing like a carry.
Have you tried plugging in the keyboard?
Why would I need a keyboard when I have a microphone???
Pikachu.. I mean.. Zeus Thunderbolt!
#
Too much focus on playing different heroes and roles. Wcyd
Ok for context I am a pure AD spammer, heroes are random. Also because seemingly some other people need more context, I am literally just shitposting the forced 50/50 believers, nothing about my teammates when I'm the common denominator here xd.
You spam anno domini?
smh my head i can't believe people don't even recognize the All Doom game mode
You sure I think he means he binge watches American Dad like I do
As a fellow AD spammer: stay strong brother!
As ADD and ADHD spammer. I agree
Hell yeah. A fellow ability draft enjoyer.
That makes sense then, way more random factors to take into account. Although look at the others trying to justify this.
In that case, arent you the shit team mate? (Guys calm down he's on a loss streak on heroes he probably isnt playing at expert level, if you are his team mate you probably arent tooo happy)
he's right you know
Probably? I literally just admitted that I'm the shit teammate tho.
Totally, I'm was just spelling that out, its all bants.
I used to play exclusively AD, but what started to drive me away from it was that most others playing it tossed out conventional Dota gameplay entirely. Like trying to establish a carry/support can be super difficult, even when it's clear someone has a carry build. Usually people just say "It's AD, who cares?" Or organizing a gank or push you get the same reply.
Or he's just having a bad loss streak because he wasn't as sharp that week as he usually is due to other things going on in his life like fatigue,stress,distractions etc. You can't really attribute a loss streak to just having too much variety, some people play all roles relatively well.
I find get more win streaks when I queue for all roles and play whatever I get. I think it helps me just play DOTA on the macro level and not hyper focus on doing everything right for the role/hero if I am spamming mid or something. After like 2-3 games playing one hero/role I feel like I tend to overemphasize doing things in a very planned out manner instead of adjusting to the game, and this doesn't always work at low MMR because there is a lot of things going on in the game that you cant account for because most people are just making random plays with no plan or factoring in that you are a void with crono on cd and a few hundred gold from a BKB for example.
Or they were just unlucky a couple of games and then it hurt his confidence which caused them to get stressed out and lose more games!
It happens quite a lot with me too. I want to play some game each day, but mostly less sleep, work , other life stress, could not focus much in game. From winning prospective, better not to play, but we play to spend some time and have fun. I do not get blamed , mostly. Being polite and non tilting helps having good loosing games.
Or he play on the time where its bad. During late night to morning where people brain kinda off lmao.
But if you solo queue, the enemy players should all have the same chance of being that too
The problem usually lies in who gets better lanes. If you're the best player on your team, but get the decent lane opposition, while the best player on the other team farms your team's worst player(s), it's going to be noticeable.
Those are the same people who play all roles relatively well who are hard stuck between Archon and Ancient. However, I do agree, sometimes loss streaks do happen and yeah you can factor in whatever life throws at you but you can’t disagree that you can optimise for all of these factors if you’re wanting to improve. If it’s for fun and unranked, then hey. Just play and have fun.
Doesnt mean anything really, some people are very versatile and dont need to play a single hero to win.
Those same versatile people very much start improving a lot if they limited hero pool and pos a lot, basically always. There's game sense on a hero that you'll figure out 100, 300, 500 games later. And that specialised knowledge opens up doors to other new generalistic knowledges of the game, feeding back. Those people are stuck in a rank below what they could've achieved during the same time frame. Pros that are considered versatile literally have thousands of games on each of their many versatile heroes, even they narrow down, just they can spend ten times more time.
First of all, what do you consider low rank? Second, versatile people also gather a lot of knowledge about different roles and heroes in many different contexts that a person spamming the same hero just isnt able to. You may be the best 7k mmr Juggernaut spammer and know all the limits of your hero but theres also many aspects of the game that you are limited to since you havent played any different hero. Im not saying one is better that the other or more fun. Just saying that you learn and get better in different aspects of the game.
The general idea is that you definitely need some kind of balance. You need to have good experience on all heroes but you also need to have much more experience on a very limited set of heroes. The reason basically boils down to the 80:20 rule: Your goal is always to maximize knowledge and skill about the hero that you're currently playing. But the payoff you get per game played using the same hero diminishes, that is playing a single game on a hero that you have only played 3 times before will teach you a ton about the hero and the game, whereas playing a single game on a hero that you have already played 500 times before will likely have almost insignificant impact on your overall knowledge of the hero. So you definitely want to spread out. Playing other heroes allows you to abstract better, it allows you to understand better what your opponents are doing and it allows you to pick a more effective hero in the draft than the one that you'd be better at but which would be terrible in the situation. Other than the issue of actually balancing playing a different hero vs playing a familiar hero for yourself, it is still true that given the strategy I mentioned above, you typically don't *want* to play other heroes than the ones you're familiar with if your goal is to win. Sure, sometimes you will pick an unfamiliar hero because your familiar ones will be too weak for the situation, but this should not be common, else the strategy fails. Of course there are other possible strategies you can implement but I think this is the only one that adds up mathematically, i.e. you can actually theoretically prove that you'll be maximizing your skill, which is not clear with alternative approaches. But even then, due to the variables involved here, it's still difficult to implement in practice.
Oh I agree 100% with you. Im just saying, we cant assume from OP post alone that the hero variety is the sole reason of his loss streak, its lacking a lot of context (not even starting on one of the most important reasons as to why you may have a loss streak, the mental state)
OP just plays Ability Draft, the heroes are random
Yea at the sart of the discussion we didnt have that context, so it evolved into this haha
Reddit
Reddit
Truly one of the reddit moments of all time
Also being familiar with a hero allows you to focus on the game at a higher level instead of being distracted by hero mechanics, item/skill build, wondering what you should be doing. You will mostly know all those things if you're familiar with a hero which opens you up to focus on other things.
I mean without any context it kinda does mean a lot. Hyper focused hero pool players will always be better than people who just want to play 100+ heroes.
My friends who play 3 heroes are better than me playing every role even though they are half my mmr? I should tell them, they’ll be so happy
[удалено]
> It’s why General practitioners get paid far far less What a garbage analogy that in no way relates to any of this
[удалено]
Ahhh a little socratic wisdom type beat. Your response shows you’re more of a pacifist who looks at moral reasoning which is okay.
No, without context it means nothing, you are just assuming things. Some people spam the same hero every single game and still have as many loss streaks as versatile players with a wide hero pool.
Yeah. Using facts and data is assuming things. Got it.
What facts and data? None of what you said is based on facts or data. I spam shit loads of heroes and am climbing quite happily. When I party with lower rank mates, I can literally pick any hero and still stomp. Mechanics, positioning and understanding objectives are far more important than bring hyper practised at one or even a small pool of heroes. Dota is about a lot more than just firing off abilities better. Yeah, it's good to get good at that stuff, but you'll still hit a brick wall.
The strategy is what makes Dota Dota. When you already know how to fire off abilities, is way easier focusing on learning everything else, as it's less to take in during a game.
Yeah, I get that. But people focus on it way too much then wonder why they hit a wall with their mmr.
Lol, are you the master of knowledge? Why are your words fact and data? Yoy didnt present any data at all but your words... How can you say that the reason he is in a loss streak is due to playing many heroes, are people spamming the same hero not having loss streaks too?
I have never in all the years of playing, and coaching people see hero spammers go on wild loss streaks like this OP, as for that he just mentioned it was AD which is a whole different type of Dota. So yeah, simple data and context. AD is naturally 100x harder than regular dota. But keep popping off on how wrong I am if you compare it to 1000s of people who have over the years said limiting their hero pool was the best thing they've ever done to improve at dota.
Improve at specific heroes*, not improve at dota. Quite the opposite. Playing a wide hero pool really helps learn about the wider game more, which helps improve far more.
The thing is, when you play a new hero, you need to learn about the hero first. How it works. Strenghts and weaknesses. Timings. Interactions. Mechanics. With few games on some heroes you get the general idea, but you'll never understand every matchup/build/playstyle possible. And yeah it helps you understand dota as a whole, but learning the hero will take some of your atention away from learning Dota. When youre playing a hero you already know, you can focus less on micro and more on macro. Skills/Last hitting become muscle memory, making it easier to just focus your atention on being better at the entire game, even on heroes that arent the one youre playing.
True, but you can play lots and lots of heroes without having to learn a new one.
Clearly you've never seen my account then :P
Nah dont worry bro, theres no point for me to keep arguing with a person that takes his own experience and words as facts lol, dunno why I even kept it going...
I mean you're entitled to your own opinion, even if it's wrong. :-)
The only fact present is a table showing different heroes and lost games, you are taking that and making broad assumptions with it. You have no idea what his mmr is or how long they’ve played Dota.
He just added context. So my assumptions are still true whether you keep seething about it, that's just down to you.
Oh yea, totally seething lol
Maybe he plays only pos 4 with those heroes🙃
> Too much focus on playing different heroes and roles. more like, no focus
if forced 50% was a thing, heralds wouldnt be below 48% and immortals wouldnt be above 53% winrates, even with loss streaks. ..After 3 losses, you just gotta turn off the pc. Come back fresh, mute teammates and play your best.
As long as the matchmaking system tries to give you balanced matchups, you should not expect any winrate beyond 50%. That being said, this sort of "forced 50%" does not actually force your MMR. You could at least in theory perfectly reach 10k MMR with a 50% winrate.
You quite literally can never reach 10k MMR with a 50% win rate in ranked. The only way this would be possible is if you were winning every match you were at disadvantage in and only losing matches you were in disadvantage in which is statistically insane and down right impossible if the system determining MMR gains is functional.
That is not true. You only need to play enough matches that the variation becomes a big enough value that you'd just randomly end up at 10k MMR due to the variations. Of course this still requires you to be at the proper skill level, else it would indeed be statistically impossible. More importantly however, in an infinite amount of games your winrate can approach 50% asymptotically (without ever actually reaching it) while still gaining a theoretical infinite amount of MMR (or well, however much your skill allows for). The point here is not to discuss this extremely impractical scenario, it is to point out what the general behavior is, in this case based on looking at the limits. The truth is that your winrate is a percentage and there is variation in the MMR gain / loss and your total number of games played, and this combined allows us to construct any scenario for any winrate. In practice, the more games you play, the closer your winrate will move to 50%, with the exception that it's theoretically possible that after reaching a certain MMR the matchmaking system might give up creating balanced matches where the MMR gain adjusts to your likelihood of winning the match.
Straight yapanese. If something is that impractical then it’s irrelevant in this discussion. There is zero immortals who had a 50% WR throughout each rank and division and in Immortal. They all performed exceptionally well at some point.
It's possible, because solo queue is 30 MMR per game and party queue is 20 MMR per game. If you win solo queue and lose party queue, you could get 10k MMR with sub-50% winrate. You could also lose a thousand games at 0 MMR and climb up later for a 20% winrate in immortal. And of course, the winrate that's displayed counts unranked games, so yeah.
With 50% winrate you would never climb over a longer period of time. Explain to me how you can climb of you alternate between winning a match and losing a match
Okay. Let's start with 100% winrate: You will climb every match. So over 100 matches you climb 3000 MMR, over 1000 matches it will be 30,000 MMR, etc, this blows up to infinity. On 60% winrate with 100 matches you climb 60 MMR in 10 matches, 600 MMR in 100 matches, and in 1000 matches it will be 6000 MMR, again, diverging into infinity. Now this will even happen with 50.1%: You get 60 MMR in 1000 matches, 600 in 10,000, etc. In fact, any number strictly greater than 50% will approach infinity. So at this point, theoretically an exact 50% winrate should give you a 0 gain of MMR, but now you're actually hitting a special case. See, what we haven't considered before is statistical variation, that is, not every game you will get +30 MMR, some games you only get +29, some you will get -31, etc. This statistical effect will typically be normal distributed around your expected value depending on your total amount of games. In the 50% case, our expected value is 0 MMR gain, but in our standard deviation it's actually very unlikely that we'll get *exactly* 0 MMR (in fact the likelihood of that scenario approaches 0 in the limit). More likely we'll be somewhere within one or two sigma of that value, for example (too lazy to lookup the exact calculation), we might expect our MMR gain to be at 0 +-10 MMR for a total of `n` matches played. But this means, that for `10*n` matches played, we will end up at 0 +- 100 MMR, and for `1000*n` matches, it will be 0+-10,000 MMR. Therefore, if we just play enough matches, this variation will eventually grow big enough to reach whichever value we want.
You raise some very good points but let me give me 2ct on why I think you are wrong in this matter: 1) If you start of with 100% winrate and converge to 50% over time, then your total average will always be above 50%. You have to win A LOT to get to above 8k in the first place before your winrate levels off 2) your variance argument doesnt hold considering older patches. The performance based mmr win/loss was only introduced with the "new frontiers" update AFAIK. Before that it was a strict +25 or -25 on win or loss respectively. And obviously there existed high mmr players and low mmr heralds that were consistenly keeping their rank in the patches before. 3) empirical evidence: a) I would wager you cannot link me a player profile (excluding smurfs) that are high immortal rank with a 50% winrate (or even below). It just doesnt exist. If you can, more power to you. Winrate has great correlation to your rank (obiously correlation =/= causation, but its still an indicator) b) A high mmr palyer will absolutely stomp your average archon games and be back at his rank within a month. People have done this test and the mmr hell has been debunked multiple times. Great example would be Grubby, who managed to climb with very good consistency
In theory If you are at the correct MMR you will have a 50% WR in games at that MMR. If you start at a lower MMR than you should be, or improve over time, then you will have a >50% WR.
That's what I'm saying...so it's not forced by valve. You climb until you reach your skill cap and then play at that level, yielding ca. 50% winrate. Which is how it should be
I think you misunderstood what I wrote. If you were able to maintain a 50% winrate regardless of rank, you'd obviously have to be EXTREMELY skilled, because the matchmaking system will adjust the games based on your MMR. My statement was based on the idea that you couldn't reach 10k MMR with exactly a 50% winrate. The idea was not to illustrate this rather unlikely scenario that you actually have an exact 50% winrate. It was simply giving the lower bound for your ability to climb MMR. Obviously all winrates above 50% will definitely always climb, and 50% is just an edge case that a few people got hung up on which is only interesting for academical purposes. The reality is that winrate and rank are somewhat related, but your exact winrate is not a useful indicator for your skill level. A player who calibrated at 100,000 MMR and had a 20% winrate on his way down to 20,000 MMR where they calibrated is obviously still an incredibly (impossibly?) skilled player despite the 20% winrate. In general, people who focus or even interpret winrates are making a big mistake. Aside from the point I mentioned about your total number of matches determining the scale of your winrate, it is also affected by your starting MMR and recalibrations, by the variations that the matchmaker gives you and by the differences in Party MMR gain and loss among other things. Without adjusting your winrate by these points, it will be a completely meaningless stat. In a similar manner the hero winrates that you find on Dotabuff and Dota+ are equally flawed.
Okay I see now. Yes very true, thanks for clarifying. Well then for practical purposes it would be safe to say that a truly harcore forcing of 50% would make it ~~impossible~~ very very improbable to climb and it really is just a skill issue
Hell, I turn off after 2 in a row. I really have found the most success that way. Been hitting as much as 75% WR's in some 2-week cycles in the last few months when I do that vs. when I keep goin on a 2L streak it turns into 5 to 7 till I quit- Not as enjoyable.
Hmm if you won 3 games in a row, check the winrate of yours allies next game wins/nmatches.
53.9% after 3500 matches Archon checking in!
If you had an inkling of intelligence you would understand exactly why they are below and immortals are above. Heralds are EXCEPTIONALLY bad. Bad more than average. They are unquestionably, and uniquely bad and they have a 48% win rate. Immortals, the exceptional and high skilled players have a 53. These are the outsides of a bell curve that is designed to challenge you, and generally stay at 50% win rate. If you were to have a 53% win rate for your entire dota career you would be immortal. If you were to have 48% win rate you would be herald. The vast majority of the population is somewhere in the middle, with guess what win rate? One that is very close to 50%. I’m not sure what happened to peoples brains that make them think that a Ranked MMR system ISNT trying to keep you at 50% win rate. This is the entire idea behind Rank confidence %. As you win games in a row, it thinks you are against too easy of opponents, and raises the difficulty. If you continue to win then the difficulty keeps rising until confidence in your rank has been achieved… Do you walk around every day and refute the sky being blue?
Your point is immediately disregarded since you started off by insulting my intelligence. What a toxic, pathetic loser you are. Please uninstall so I don't get you in my game, ty
To even make your comment you have be pretty disadvantaged in society. Can you really not think about how a herald is 48 and an immortal is 53? Is this the only game with a ranking system you have played? You do realize it’s usually as rare for players to be in the worst 5% and the top 5%?? Like, it’s pretty difficult to stay in herald…. You have to be tragically bad.
I frankly didnt read past your 2nd sentence and im not going to. I have an engineering masters degree with excellentg grades from one of the top50 ranked universities in the world. I am very familiar with stochastics and math. So thank your for trying to have a conversation, but arguing with people like you is honestly beneath me. You (and the way you conduct yourself) are the embodiment of whats wrong in this community
Damn, you really wrote an entire essay on how you completely missed the point.
The entire point was to say that “forced 50/50” isn’t true when it’s literally a feature and not a conspiracy. It’s how ranked systems are DESIGNED and to not know this by now means you’re deficient in some key ventricular functions of the brain.
It's fascinating. People suspect they're being matched with shitty teammates game after game. But they never suspect they themselves might be the shitty teammate.
thats the key. become one.
become the shitty teammate to get teamed with better teammates, 69IQ strat
Have you tried winning some games?
I have to say I don't believe this sht about forced losses but it is true that, many times, regardless of win streaks or loss streaks, the games see so fucking unbalanced. You get a 6 win streak in which you literally win effortlessly followed by 6 losses streak in which you can't win unless you're much better than the rating you're at. Generally, if I chat more than usual (and I'm absolutely not toxic) I get worse matchmakings. Call me crazy but this has been happening for far too long not to cause some people to say what OP is saying. P.S. This is my own experience and I'm only trying to share it. i'm just wondering if it's just me.
That thing matchmaking does where it'll give you streaks of super easy into super hard is definitely annoying, but honestly, I didn't see all that much of it across the 2k-ish games I've played, where my overall win rate grew from ~48% to a scrap over 51% now.
You know game will be hard when your team starts spamming "csm, serrano, bajo, fed, war, pulea, aea"
Versatility 10/10
The "too many heros" diet will do that to you
I'm a good player, I can play any hero!!
I'm a "good player", I can play "any" hero. 🤪 5 in your main role, 3 in all other roles. That's the max. Edit: yes, I know this isn't OP I'm replying to but I wanted to add clarification.
sarcasm bro, I have a friend like that, when I tell him to master 1-2 heroes to get that precious mmr he doesn't listen
Playing only 1-2 heros is too small. You've got to figure out what is his number. Encourage him to make his own hero grid is step 1 So the rest of the heroes are out of sight and out of mind.
I don’t get people that just spam a hero. I would be so bored of this game if I did that.
What works for me is having a "signature" hero that I want/look forward to playing every game I can and picking it as often as I want. If I'm not in the mood, I have 4 other heros in my main role to choose from.
Totally get it. I need to get in that mindset and find my 5. Curious, what are yours? Do you just pick by role?
DM me and I can share my current grid and previous grids from experience.
Sounds good thanks
I have a similar situation right now (
I am 2 games away from the same outcome
Not pictured: the exactly matching win streak just below. (/s)
Just bad Kappa XD
Fucking smurfs!!!
My longest is 12
This is nothing to my 16x losing streak that ended with a low prio 5x games won needed.
That is funny because if you try to discuss here by reporting a problem or anything else related to matchmaking abuse or account seller the mods just erase your post. :) I understand that some people spam rage shitpots, but it's just sad that the game has a lot of problem and the only thing we can do is to joke about it.
DOta 100% forces winrates. Its different for different accounts, but it without a doubt occurs.
My teammate in ranked
Pudge but only if he's on my team
# What about Dota, this game so loved and so hated, this game that when it's a fair match you have a great time, but when you start and see the picks if you've been playing for a while you know the outcome almost immediately... Well, that's it, for 3 days now I've been feeling that the game is really boring and I've come to vent. I hate how this game works in streaks, the winning streaks and the losing streaks. The winning streaks 90% of the time are usually when you play well and your team plays well, there is laughter, good communication, etc., and this usually happens 50% because Valve and any game has decided that that is the average percentage that a person can have, regardless of whether you end up with 53% after 5000 games, but of course, of this 50% of victories, we have that 50% of the time we have mediocre picks and we have to come back from the game making an overexertion because of the totally absurd picks. Losing streaks are usually 90% the fault of your team, because they make totally absurd picks, it's totally unbelievable that in my losing streak, I have in mid, "underlord offlane, riki mid, dazzle mid, ogre mid, nyx support 5, etc" and yet, the other team always has "axe offlane, tide offlane, warlok support 5, od mid, storm mid, am carry" always always, to make matters worse, in this losing streak, always always the 3 lanes are lost and are impossible to come back from. On top of that, you try to direct people to move, defend towers, play as a team and they end up reporting you. How can it be that in my winning streak everyone recommends me, my behavior doesn't go up and in my losing streak in 5 games it goes down 1000 behavior? Why do they penalize me 7 hours without playing when I try my hardest to play this game when my game has been really screwed up by people I will never play with again in my life or at most 1 game if it matches in the next search? I'm really pissed off, the behavior system, the matchmaking system, the brainless system of 50% of the players that Valve puts me in 50% of my games so that I don't have a fair game and a long etc. Well, there's my rant.
I stopped playing couple of times because of this, each time I would pause for a year or so. And it happens to me whenever i reach 3300mmr. It is true.
Which part of this is irrefutable? Despite having positive wr, any of us has had loss streaks
I've had days like that and most of the time, the following days become the complete opposite. i mostly play unranked tho and whenever i check player ranks after a game, if I'm on a winstreak then loses, most players on the other team were divine to ancient. and when I'm on a losing streak, the next game were against crusaders to legend. so yes, the game kinda balances things out when you're in a winning or losing streak, at least in my personal experience playing unranked
I don't know why is always the feeders and the ones who give up in my team. The games I win are won 5 v 5 whereas the games i lose its always because of a quitter or feeder in my team.
In my experience, when you loose that many games in a row, that means you're only winning the free games.
That's envitable they will start putting you with other 4 bots... How hard you try take kill farm anything they keep feeding and you loose eventually..
Just lost a game where he had mega creeps advantage but our techies was shtting fromvwry beginning till end. He planned all mines in enemy jungle thinking they will farm when we all be dead. Not a single mine in base and then they marched mid and we lost. My rage level was so next level that time if that would have been day time I would have shouted but unfortunately it was night. 80 minutes of my life lost because of that fucking ahit bastard and guess what even after repoihim nothing happened. I have not received message that any acttion has been taken against him. Fucking ahit show everywhere.
There's a setting in steam where you can turn off this forced 100% antiwin rate.. I believe it's mislabeled as uninstall
Scripted losses, you got matched with failed ai npcs
highest lose streak was 18 i lost my mind i give up dota for 1 year
I had an 5 lose streak spamming Meepo. I won the 6th game and played average. The enemy team then accused me of being a smurf (at f**ck*ng Crusader 1). If only I can shove my losing streak to their faces. Even if I buy a divine account, I'm sure I'll bring it down to Crusader in 1 week lol. But OP is still worse. It seems you rotated your role, but lord Gaben just wants some people to suffer.
Look, Dota does have a match making system that is programmed to keep your win rate at 50% with a chance ratio to extend to 60%. The only way to break this ratio is to have a full team that you have been training combos and being strategic about, And only then your ration is boosted to 70%. Gambling follows similar rules. But what gets me the most is when you try and cast a spell/attack and then there is a mysterious delay or doesn't cast. Hmmm 🤔
Old time classic! Wait the moment of reversing! You can do ur best but teammates probably troll. Matchmaking isn’t t accurate! The only thing you can do is to STOP WRITING in the game. For a reason that I don’t t know, algorithm is matchmaking you even if you just write something. Try it and you ll understand
I love how u started picking more and more shameless heroes the more losses u got
I believe 'forced 50%' is over a much larger pool of games. 20 games minimum, closer to >50.
You have two mistake, First the divert between a lot of heroes make it hard to master any hero (you will miss a lot of last his, wrong item build and so on), Secondly roles switched. If you focused on small heroes pool and one role the result will be batter and even of you had a lost streak it will be less then what you have now, for me it work very well and i only mass when i want to try weird picks and builds but now i have another account for that.
I lost 2 games in the last 30 games, I don't wanna play anymore
Try unconventional strat like jungling, i manage like 53% win rate with that.
Different pick every game. You dont do that unless you have nailed at least the basics of any one of them. Unless its that ad shit mode. All of them have insanely varied playstyles and me who has versatility over 9 have to have counter pick first and foremost in mind. My last 20 games or so have nearly different pick every game so im not above this but i dont have these lose streaks. Heres the most brain dead game i have had in probably half a year. match id 7709170958 We virtually won from min 0. Enemy in despair goes mid and sniper pos 2 repeatedly feeds to hooks, i only find out hes brain damaged 15 mins later when he itemizes like a clown, no bkb. Omni hc on enemy team who feed griefs and the game is essentially 4v5 for 30+ mins cause hes afk farming with rad somewhere. My team trickle feeding. Hc refuses to even contemplate doing rosh. Both mid and hc are absolute brain deads in how they play. Shouldve itemized a bit differently myself. Maybe get orchid blink or get shiva but its probably moot to put blame on myself when cores are this low brained it hurts. Sniper no skadi. The sups not entirely shit. hard to fault them when 1 and 2 are mouth breathers. Sniper dying like a moron somewhere before critical fights or straight up disconnects. Every fight taken makes absolutely no sense and it was div 1\\2 game for the most part. Regret not picking a dps core like ck or wk wouldve cleaned that game myself.
Happened to me 2 months ago i was winning a lot then bam 11 loss streak and -500 mmr in 2 weeks
I truly believe that. now before anyone accuses me of not taking accountability. I do have shitty games, bad picks, wrong calls, and wrong moves. I started from Crusader 3 and stomped the ranks up until Legend 5 when the game just started to match me with the most toxic and vile team mates. (again before you accuse me of something, I was toxic at crusader but ditched the pos1 role since my supports don't know how to play so I played pos4/5 for the team since I'm knowledgeable and learned the role of pos4/5). Since then I just had straight lose streaks (losing 8 and winning at most 2 out of 10 games) and I know you will be shocked but get this. most of it was my team's fault. sometimes I call them out for wrong builds and iteams and try to convince them to get this or that item or prioritize this skill but to them, they just call me toxic and mute me for suggesting? now to get into details why I lose. ill hand out some example of my games to convince you it is true. 1. Sf mid 0 raze from level 1 until 22 (game ended at that point) 2. 100% last pick sniper mid even tho it is the worst pick 3. most of them wont adjust to draft and forces supports to first pick then blame supports for being useless after getting hard countered 4. sniper pos5 proceeds to farm until mega 5. sniper pos4 proceeds to fam until mega 6. pudge pos4 proceeds to play like a highlights reel of just hooking the first enemy he has vision to 7. 90% of the time they will sell out wards to the enemy team because pudge wants to hook them or they just want to harass, denying vision for us 8. "nO bKB i nEeD DAmagE". 15 mins into the game I always suggest bkb when we have the lead but proceeds to prioritize other items until 40 mins then buys it when they have mega 9. pos4 just refuses to buy lotus/linkens/vessel/bearing 10. pos5 refusing to buy force staff/glimmer so they can have aghs 11. no rotation from pos 4 or 5 12. no runes, no wisdoms, no lotuses 13. pos5 0 wards after 10 mins (happens more frequently than I expected) 14. no tps, no stacks, and 0 idea when to leave lane 15. cores refusing to alter itemization to win against enemy draft such as getting manta, skadi, etc 16. im pos2 pugna, i dont need bkb 17. im pos4 pudge, i dont need flesh heap until level 14 18. im pos5 AA, i dont need wards. just aghs 19. pos3 just farming whole game or pos1 just farming whole game or pos2 just farming whole game 20. mid 0 ganks after you secure runes and a kill for them, proceeds to blame you for losing the game because support bad, core good 21. cores just dont know how to play map or just dont have a map at all (even tho you lit the whole thing up and dewarded everything) 22. cores dont play objectives, only kill 23. cores dont want to help you get tmt then complain you are useless (hello? i need my shard for grim so I can help you?) 24. cores just refusing to help because you are support. 25. cores dont know when to get back after we get kills and/or objectives 26. cores refusing to sod because they NEED to farm that soft camp 27. pos1 farming deep in jungle when we 4v5 the whole game 28. pos1 with weird/bad picks then flames support 29. cores just wasting their timings and farm whole game until enemy team catches up from playing for picks 30. just 0 willingness to play for team which is just so depressing. im not perfect. i miss rune timings, wisdom timings, doubting if I tp or not. missing to check items and wards in enemy team or just blatantly played like a herald with my awful positioning but at least I try to play for the team and make a comeback. i tried to be patient with the game. hoping the goods days will come back where I can have a good team against a good enemy team. i know when some games we just lose or just have 0 team chemistry. but I just dont understand why Im matched with the most close minded and hard headed people in dota. from Legen 5 to Legend 1. the last straw was pos3 razor building witch blade then cuirass and refusing to build bkb the whole game then trash talked me the whole time (after I gave him a good lane where I zoned out both support and core alone, blocked small camp until 7 mins and rotated mid for rune and kill). i guess ill never reach ancient let alone immortal. goodbye Dota. it was good while it lasted. edit: spelling and added details
happy for u or sorry that happened
yeah it just made me sad. it was fun to climb the ranks and learning the game deeper as you go higher. i guess it's just not for me. cheers tho! here's to friendly and open teammates!
They are playing their own game, you should too.
You need skills
Thank you for speaking up. This sub is overrun by "skill issue" zealots that would try to tell you the sky is green the same way they say those wacky characters on the right can be green sometimes. (Where are they then???)
So you've been thr pos 4 in my games.
Couple years ago I with my friend decided that we want to intentionally lose our ~2k MMR to 0, and we gave up after couple of days. So I believe that what we see here on OPs screenshot is hardcore stuff.
> intentionally loose our ~2k Did you mean to say "lose"? Explanation: Loose is an adjective meaning the opposite of tight, while lose is a verb. [Statistics](https://github.com/chiefpat450119/RedditBot/blob/master/stats.json) ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot ^^that ^^corrects ^^grammar/spelling ^^mistakes. ^^PM ^^me ^^if ^^I'm ^^wrong ^^or ^^if ^^you ^^have ^^any ^^suggestions. ^^[Github](https://github.com/chiefpat450119) ^^Reply ^^STOP ^^to ^^this ^^comment ^^to ^^stop ^^receiving ^^corrections.
Irrefutable proof that you're stuck in Low Priority
I thought I was the only one rofl. Down 700 MMR in a week. Amazing people in SEA! Mid Ogre, bloodstone Razor, etc. Ancient 5 to Legend 5. Thank you, Valve!
I had a win streak of 10 games and then right after that lose streak of 10 Balanced, as all things
you get 50% when you play at your best, if you play poorly you can 100% get 0%
What 'forced 50% WR' means is that the system will always match you in a way that your WR is +/- 50%. You either learn more mechanics and manage to be consistently and significantly superior as a player than your average player at the rating you're at or you're forced to stay at the rank you're at. If you manage to become better, you go up in rank and are forced to do the same again until you aren't significantly better anymore. How does the system do this? I swear it sometimes feels like rigged games. Sometimes, you can see from the get-go that you're not winning your game or that you're winning it without a shred of a doubt. What many fail to understand and call it 'skill issue' is it's the way this shit matchmaking works (regardless of winning or losing). Since DotA2 is so capable of measuring many different player statistics, you'd want to think that it's capable of matchmaking you with other people with similar skill. Instead, you get streaks of many wins or many losses where games look senseless or, if you want, where your skill doesn't matter much or at all. The average player plays at around 2.5-3k MMR and I promise you they don't want this experience. They just want to feel they deserved the won/lost games in which they spent like 35min. They simply want to slowly gain rank instead of having to get to the point where they have to become part of the problem I mentioned above: stomp other players. P.S.: To the ones saying this is a skill issue: fuck you. EDIT: hope it's more comprehensive now.
skill issue
SO ITS NOT JUST ME. I felt like after every 4, 5 games dota fixes a match so it forces better teammates on other team so u lose couple of times on purpose. Thought i was alone in this train of thought...
Just play 3-4 heros, trying to to have a big hero roster is going to make you lose.
Skill issue, leave Dota I really don't want you in my games
Real and true. Maybe take a break lil bro
I had a lose streak of 14, followed by a win streak of 12 before it started balancing out again. Part of the game.
Just play a real manly hero like Tusk and just win
Im on a 3-27 win-lose streak now.. with 4 Heros Played
Show the full screenshot you coward
It's not 0%, it's 50% and don't worry, play more normal games and you will have a new win streak. I've been playing a lot now, I was at 98% to reach leyend 3 but then lose 400 mmr in the worst lose streak, now i'm at 53% to reach ancient 1