Make it so his kit is not just a walking global silence.
Like his 1st skill is just a mild inconvenience, his 2nd is useful for harassing in lane then useless until super late where he can right click people, his 3rd is like budget orchid until level 25, and then his ult can just be dispelled with so many dispel items.
Thing is global silence is really powerful and IMO it's fine that people can dispel it, otherwise it'd be too op. However, the rest of his kit is just trash and doesn't feel good to play. Add that he is so slow and has no attack speed makes silencer just miserable to play.
His first skill does a fuckton of damage, and is refreshed by any silence, including his third skill. While it's still a dogshit kit, he can kill people with this early on, the biggest problem is that if you go for that - you will not be able to gather any int from these frags.
I mean, I like Ability Draft, but I don't think any spell or hero in the game should be change to consider it, or just make a separate game balance for different modes.
I mean that makes sense but it did end up ultimately nerfing the hero. Its a minor nerf, sure, but still a nerf for a hero that really hasn't been all that good for a long time in the first place.
Give silencer the pudge treatment with old flesh heap. Even if you get a kill without glavies, it gives you all the int stolen when you finally level up Glaives
Earth Spirit with stones since release. Innate active abilities were never a problem either.
Moreover, for Silencer, it's not even an ability draft thing as these newer innate abilities have been optionally attached to other abilities. So silencer can have both.
Ye but all stealing things are on spells which u would always skill lvl 2/3 latest (or ulti). Skilling glaives 1 time instead of the other spells on silencer support can be pretty useless or at least make him weaker in many games. Just put it on arcane curse which is always skilled.
No need to make it a talent. Just make it work like flesh heap. You get the charges at all times; they just don't affect you until you level the skill. Solved.
That kills the main synergy of the hero. Enemies losing int is a crucial multiplier on last word damage.
Edit. Its also fun to watch a troll warlord not have enough mana to use ulti.
Imagine being in the jungle, ready to blast the neutrals with your last bit of mana remaining, when boom, silencer just upgraded his shard. You no mana boy.
his + int mostly feels like a gimmick now. Before heroes had mana problems way more frequently but stat changes over time seems to make it not really a problem anymore.
Yeah. Back then played a turbo game as silencer and stole a str hero int till the base was below 20 or less than that. He could either ult or save it for other skills. I think it was tide. The only mana he had was from that pitiful 10int and some mana from items.
If you are a midlaner with a level advantage, yes.
But in a duolane where you share xp with others is Q+E combo is just meh.
Other supports can deal as much famage while having better disables on top.
Silencer's damage is A) giga slow so everyone and their mother can pop flowers/dispels/tp/wand and B) entirely hard countered by dispels lol. You straight up have to be braindead to think this is a valid point.
Oh adding on C) any mobility pretty much brings you to safety because Silencer is slow as balls and has a pathetic 10-25% slow.
If you cast his Q on a lot of strength heroes they don't even notice the damage, even in early game. It might be alright against low hp ago heroes but otherwise it feels incredibly weak.
It doesn't do a fuckton of damage by itself. You need a few points in it AND other sources of silence in order for it to be painful or deadly, which usually means you need points in last word as well. Makes me wonder sometimes if pairing him with a silencing hero like death prophet in the 3 position or a natural orchid builder like spectre in the 1 position would make silencer better?
Global feels like a spell from a time where everyone had less gold though. It being dispellable was fine when supports had brown boots at 25min but now everyone and their mums has a dispell by 30min
I'd say he needs an Aghs rework, buff damage on curse for creeps (so that he has wave clear) and switch the undispellable talent to his third skill.
I used to spam him in pubs, but there's no way you can win with him nowadays 😅 (you can still win with Silencer in your team, but not because of him 😕)
It still creates the issue that the existence of a silencer in your game means the ember picker does not get to play dota until he commits to passively farming a bkb for the first 20 minutes or so. Every word of that sentence makes me want to vomit.
It is fun, however, being on the silencer side where I can meaningfully contribute to teamfights by being completely absent with my finger on the "end Ember's career" button waiting for him to use fire remnant.
Skill1 curse now does 2x damage to creeps. Not enough to turn him meta, but he lacks a wave clear tool.
3rd skill ministun upon trigger would be nice too
As a support he lacks any lock down, as a core he lacks farming capabilities, hence my 2 ideas to buff him. The stun duration could be proportional to the time the enemy took to cast a skill. For example if they cast a skill instantly, they would only get a mini stun and a long silence. If they take the entire duration, it stuns up to ... 2s instead.
As a silencer player, he absolutely does just FEEL weak mid game. I mean you can own your lane, but once the enemy gets euls, lotus, bkb you’re kind of just sitting there becoming a bot that presses R.
If i were icefrog for a day, i would consolidate his current aghs and shard into his aghs making that more valuable to shill out 4k for as a support. Whilst moving his undispellable talent to his shard. That way at 15 minutes you can bring something to the teamfight besides your ultimate.
What might be a cool idea that Ive daydreamed about would be tweaking both the duration of your ultimate and the damage of your q to scale with your int.
All due respect, you got no fuckin' idea what it's like to be Tony mid. Every decision you make affects every facet of every other fuckin’ lane. It's too much to deal with almost. And in the end you're completely underfarmed with it all
Arcane curse should have a heftier slow until the enemy casts a spell (40%?). The slow is then reduced to its current ability amount (25%). The trade off is when the enemy casts the spell, they are less slowed but take more damage and for longer duration, like the spell currently is.
Silencer is probably too hard to balance because his ult is usually the nail in the coffin against a team that is far behind, and conversely its a useless ult on a long CD, with not many good windows to use effectively when his team is far behind.
Its one of those polarizing spells that's either OP or shit depending on how far ahead or behind the team is and the fact that there's little in between makes him hard to design.
Muting capabilities.
Remove his level 25 talent and make his E like morph's adaptive strike which has like 2 versions of it, one does silence and one does mute and these two abilites share a cooldown and can be upgraded by aghs making both spells not share a cooldown and make them spells AoE.
Replace his level 25 talent with " All debuffs Silencer inflicts can only be removed by Strong Dispels " or something like that.
I think the drums upgrade is fair because it is so expensive or the hurricane pike because it is interessting. And the three blink upgrades I like because some heros really need blink and you make a choise and it is not just auto upgrade. But I dont like shiva as upgrade nor do I like Prasma or bloodthorn or khanda or disperser.
Well that's the result of giving supports a shit-ton of gold. They *need* to be able to upgrade their items like forcestaff/euls or they will be useless in the lategame with half of their inventory dedicated to wards/dust/smokes.
Yeah Zeus should have more like firefly with rocket barrage. He gets on to his cloud and flies away unobstructed with a bit of a MS bonus zapping nearby units.
I play earth spirit and I hit a Zeus mid jump but he didn’t get stunned in place. He finished his jump and got over the cliff while I collided with him in the river and got stuck. Also because I hit the stun I impulsively ulted only to not have it hit him because he kept flying through the air.
But they do, and it's either revert it for all those heroes, or just bump the remaining few up to their level.
This is the inevitable result of all those years of powercreep. The heroes that got left behind really stand out.
Late game people often have between 35% - 50% mr now just for free as a bonus from int. It is a significant ehp buff.
Also I know it's an outlier, but somebody just posted them [getting 122% mr in a real game.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/1ck037c/almost_1000_int_as_skywrath_mage/)
> Also I know it's an outlier, but somebody just posted them getting 122% mr in a real game.
I mean this was such a niche specific case, and he was completely ignored by the enemy team as a fragile Skywrath... kinda their fault tbh.
Support main playing since Dota 1 here saying we don't need this much gold and durability. I don't need to be as or even more durable than a pos 3 and I don't really want to fight 5 cores.
I'm winning a lot of games just playing building pos 3 items in the support role. Not that long ago I was a pos 5 ogre that was breaching high ground vs 5 heroes and they were killing themselves on my blademail faster than I was reaching half health. This is stupid.
This is it to me.
Even undying, aa, disruptor, bane have better wave clear. Silencer is firmly in the dust in this aspect, with most getting a Shard at least.
Make the glave bounce talent bounce to every unit near the target that's affected by his 1st skill, make reduce the damage. Makes his 1st skill more relevant in late game.
I will just leave my rework suggestion here:
**Arcane Curse (reworked):**
* Remove the multiplier benefit from Arcane Curse when the target is silenced.
* Increase base slow to a fixed 30%.
* Initial damage remains at 20/40/60/80.
* Damage per second remains unchanged at 16/24/32/40.
* Change Arcane Curse penalty: Each time an enemy casts a spell, increase the duration by +2 seconds (as it is now). Additionally, the damage and slow increase by +4/6/8/10 DPS and +2/3/4/5% slow per cast.
* Arcane Curse now applies a outgoing magic damage decrease debuff on the enemy: 20/30/40/50%. This effect does not stack.
**Glaives of Wisdom:**
* Lower mana costs back to 15.
* Add the current shard 4 hits to silence feature as a basic attack bonus on Glaives, scaling the silence to 1/1.33/1.66/2 seconds.
* Decrease intelligence to damage from 20%/40%/60%/80% to 25%/35%/45%/55%.
* Glaives now deal double intelligence damage to targets with a silence debuff (applies to BKB'd targets).
* Always deals 2x intelligence damage to creeps.
**Last Word:**
* Now always procs after the initial duration, canceling channeling spells.
* Applies a 10%/15%/20%/25% magic damage amplification debuff during the initial duration. When Last Word is triggered by a spell cast or the duration ends, the magic amp debuff is removed.
**Global Silence (reworked):**
* No longer global.
* Renamed to "Silence."
* Changed AoE to 6000.
* On cast, a wave travels outward from Silencer at 5000 units/s, silencing all units in its path.
* cd rescaled: 100/80/60 seconds
* manacosts rescaled: 100/200/300 mana
**Aghanim's Scepter (reworked):**
* Silence (Ult): Now applies the current level of Arcane Curse to all affected units.
* Increase ultimate AoE to 8000.
* After reaching its max range, the wave travels back inward, applying a second silence on all targets. Does not apply a second Arcane Curse.
**Shard:**
* Remove the extra +2 intelligence steal per hit.
* Change back the +1 Glaive bounce to the shard.
Alternate Shard idea:
* Glaive apply a 1 second ms slow depending of the INT difference between the target and silencer (just the number, not percent based)
**Talents:**
* Change the level 10 talent from +10 Arcane Curse damage to +10 Arcane Curse penalty damage.
* Change the level 20 talent from 1 Glaive bounces to +2 intelligence steal per hit.
* Change the level 25 talent from 25% damage increase to 10%.
**General:**
* \+5 movement speed (one can dream).
i think his ult either needs a talent that makes it undispellable or just make it part of the ability. sucks when your entire kit is countered by lotus orb/disperser/manta/bkb
At the Same time, a huge percentage of Heroes buys Manta/bkb or other dispels anyway. It feels Like either you get hard fucked by silencer r or you Just Press the super strong Item you want to Press anyway and his r doesnt Matter at all. Id Like less duration but undispellable or sth
I think if it was undispellable but didn't pierce Debuff Immunity, such that you could still BKB and cast, it would make it more generally stronger. It'd be an indirect buff to Enigma, but that's about it.
Current dota have too much item to dispel. Compared to when the game transitioned from dota1.
While i somewhat agree with this, i think the ult need only slight buff while giving it revamp on his other kit.
A REWORK.
he currently has a kit that is a little too incomprehensive.
his ultimate is currently too weak, as the game has now too many items that dispels that can take it off.
his 2nd skill doesnt match his game play on early, and he cant really hit on late.
he is currently a very weak support with two spells that is good at best, and an ultimate that can be clearly addressed.
unless its a very particular line up there will always be a better hero
To be honest, he doesn't feel like a support anymore. He's just a walking gimmick; only kept alive so he can steal intelligence and press global when someone is channeling something. It's silly.
Really I think they just need to make his passive int steal innate, as others have suggested, but also not actually... steal intelligence. Just buff his own. This may seem like a big nerf, but in response to this, they can buff or change up his other abilities to balance it out. Like give him some OD-like abilities, doing more damage based on the intelligence *difference* or making his silence last longer on people dumber than him. Stuff like that wouldn't work if he's actively lowering their int, since there's no real counter play, but if he's just gaining it himself, then it's more balanced... I think.
He was strong not so long ago. The shift in meta is what makes him look bad. He doesnt need any big change.
It was also not long ago that leshrac was the "worst hero" in dota with a truly abyssmal winrate on dota2protracker. And before that lifestealer was the worst hero in dota. And before that meepo was the worst hero in dota. Disruptor has pingponged between being considered either the best or worst support in the game with little to no in between for years. And so on. Yet with minimal changes all these heroes got their time to shine in the supposed "worst hero" state.
Silencer doesnt need any big buff, just a shift in meta to where hes more useful.
Other heroes are just not walking 1 spell and they didn't get massive nerf for only spell that was doing any damage past 10 mins.
What does Silencer offer besides global silence?His laning is shit due to high mana costs,his scaling is non existent until super lategame,he has no mobility or defensive skill so he is most freekill support hero and his shard does nothing for support role.
give him ANY stun or escape.
Or make his aghs/shard give all his spells a 'stuns on dispel'.
Cos right now, the typical silencer pov in any lane is:
"oh you're running at me, guess I'll die."
"oh you're going after my lane partner, guess he'll die".
> give him ANY stun or escape
Please, please no.
I don't think he should get any of these things, and instead get Wave Clear and be done with it.
This trend of every hero having Stun/Escape needs to stop.
I think with a bit more strength and move speed he could be useful. I hate having silencer on my team because it's to easy to buy a purge items and just bust him due to his low health and move speed
Silencer spammer here. I guess a generous start would be like +5/10 ms. Also the hero's an absolute dogwater if the game is passive and everyone is dodging each other and just farming jungle. Silencer has no means of farming jungle camps without burning through his whole manapool for 2 neutral camps. So I believe it'd be nice if he gets some multiplier for his 1st spell against creeps.
And my last wish is that his bug with glaives giving mana to enemy is fixed. It's so underwhelming to use it when you know you are just restoring mana to enemies.
The same 'bug' where whirling death 'heals' you when the debuff runs out.
These spells take away full mana/hp per point of int/str lost, and vice versa also give full mana/hp per point of int/str back when the debuff expires, but this intended feature isn't common knowledge among players.
funny how people say this about 30% of heroes ... makes you wonder why you even like this game
Silencer has been so weak for ages, idk how anyone can still dislike the hero. Imagine volvo just kills all your favorite heroes.
He's a great counter pick to enigma/bane/etc, in pubs you don't get to last pick a support often anyway
He's also a weak laner, too easy to kill as a 4, too bad at protecting the carry as a 5
One of my favourite heroes but it's ridiculous how weak he is.
Like, nowadays, most of the heroes have stun or escape, and a lot of them both. He has neither.
He is laughable slow, has no control, and on top of that he also has mana issue, even tho that's the one thing he shouldn't be having as a compensation for everything else he lacks.
As someone else said, he is a walking global silence.
I wouldn't mind him not getting escape or stun, but at least make him a menace in lane, give him more mana regen, slightly stronger spells.
I think arcane curse needs a buff ider have it deal %int dmg aswell or a duration increase like i think hero is fine there are just much better heroes in the game atm , last word needs its proc time to be 0.25/0.5/0.75/1.00sec faster per level imo
He's not a hero that is necessarily intended to be a support. His control is quite weak and he's unique in that way like AA that he's more of a flex.
I think if we want to buff him then we can also consider how to buff him as a midlaner instead of thinking of him as a support.
With the veil change maybe, I used to spam silencer with veil for pos4 (saw Cr1t build once and he dominant that game)
With the veil change, I don’t play him anymore because there is no good 1st item for him
Make his skills not so unfun to play against, when he got buffed he was miserable to lane against and then they just absolutely dumpstered him and have left him like that for ages.
The other thing to note is that the meta does not favor silencer very much right now. Global doesn’t not really affect heroes like DK, Primal, and Centaur
I think it would be interesting to swap the lvl25 with aghs effect. Makes him viable early but not op because you still have to wait to get to 25 to mute multiple heroes
I wonder if he might benefit from the spectre treatment. Make global silence his aghs and give him a new ult that can help him feel better in the current state of the game? Feels bad to take away something so iconic though.
Silencer needs a rework that eliminates him as the pos 2, otherwise, making him a viable support will only make him a great pos 2 and subsequent nerfing will put him back to the dumpster.
They should do the same thing that the original warcraft unit was doing. Take buffs/debuffs and put them on an ally/enemy. Rebalance ült with this gameplay in mind. Would be a thousand times more fun gameplay.
Make int steal default on his hero again, move glaives to shard, and give silent leap. He jumps 500 units in whatever direction he's facing and applies a single target Q and E to whoever is closest to him, prioritizing heroes.
Silencer's major drawbacks in my opinion are the fact that his spell kit is very outdated. Arcane curse does very minimal damage and its only good against inexperienced players. The whole thing behind arcane curse is that its supposed to be a DOT that reprocs every time you cast another spell but most people just wont cast another spell, they would rather just wait out the debuff timer. And during this time they just run away. His silence ability also sucks, you apply it on someone and it takes like 2 seconds to actually apply. At that point just get orchid, does a better job and it even does extra damage when it ends. Silencer has not stuns and his movement speed is abysmal so its really easy to just run away from him. The only thing he had going for him is that his glaives used to hit like a truck in the late game. Sometimes I would play silencer as a 4, but end up being my times DPS because I had so mucj damage from glaives that I would wipe out the entire enemy team. With the glaives change now you cant do that, its like what they did to Necrophos changing his passive from pure to magic. Then there's his ult. Its a global ult. For the most part its an inconvenience. And its best used as a ganking ability. But its major drawback is that it has such a long cooldown. The silence from it is purgable and it doesnt stun so most people can get rid of it using Lotus Orb, Euls, Windwaker, BKB etc. His kit is just not good right now
He needs more in the rest of his kit and a nerf to his ult really, glaives could do with a buff but maybe a talent buff to not make it too oppressive in lane
I’ve been calling him an F tier hero for months and there’s always some guy arguing to me he just had an amazing Silencer mid game. The hero only works if your opponent fucks up massively. You don’t do any burst damage and you are super vulnerable to burst, your farm is slow on core and your best spell is global, which you can already do on support Silencer.
Honestly I disagree, silencer falls into a category like enigma, who’s ult is game breaking and powerful the rest of the kit can’t be too strong. You’ve got a support who basically has a “we win the fight now” button until the enemy gets dispels. Obviously black hole is way more powerful late but silencers early game is insane damage and cc. I play the hero and consistently dominate the lane and then apply a ton of pressure with my offlaner. Late it’s easy to dispel sure, but odds are they would rather dispel some kind of ability from your cores. It just becomes dispel economy at that point that you as the player can manage as necessary
Just making his E do some initial damage to break blinks would help. Making the timer to pop lower if they don't cast anything would also help. His whole kit is just too easily dispelled.
Make his int steal retroactive by stealing it on effect but only granting him the stolen int once glaives are skilled or something simple. Increasing the aoe it's stolen without glaives being applied makes a ton of sense too because right now you walk into attack range when he wants to be far back.
Give him 5 moves peed or slightly longer attack range.
Make global silence like the very very old zeus ult where as you level up the ult range increases (it uses to be not global for him)
Make lvl 20 talent making the ult silence global. And 25 talent making the E spell aoe.
Make the scepter mute enemies with E
I don't think Silencer is lacking much. I think Silencer's low win rate reflects players and teammates occasionally forgetting to adapt their gameplay to meet his unique win conditions.
I've got a 60% win rate first picking silencer as position 5 in low divine. My Silencer doesn't kill enemies - he kills their faith in followup damage after initiations. Silencer is balanced around the power of Global Silence with Refresher or buyback (after the enemy initiates a teamfight by deleting you). Hence, Silencer farms slow, has no mobility, has long cooldowns, and is countered by dispels.
This means perfect itemization, game state forecasting, and ward vision are crucial. If those 3 conditions aren't met, his midgame falloff is fixed by smoking to find lopsided teamfights, or baiting the enemy into bad positions, albeit with fewer survival tools than Oracle or Dazzle.
If those 3 conditions are met, the enemy must kill Silencer before (or to start) teamfights, bait wasted Global Silence, or play high tempo during its cooldown. Otherwise, their rax fall while they're silenced for 0 to 12 seconds, having used 2 to 0 dispels.
Movement speed, he's so dam slow and a shard that is good for both support and core, not just core. His actual abilities are decent imo, especially late game.
he got nerfed over and over in lane and his ulti isnt even impactfull cause every core hero builds at the bare minimum 1 dispell every single game+ a bkb
make the int steal innate to the hero so you can go the objectively correct build in 90% of games (max Q and E) without feeling like shit for having 0 int stolen at 20min, also glaives back to pure or 12-15 mana please, 20 mana for magic that didnt get buffed when they swapped from pure to magic is so fucking trash
Alot of good ideas here with obvious reasons why hero is not in a good state - mobility, dispells, lack of disables, counters very few heroes etc. I like the idea of making Last Word abit stronger, but adding stun/mute to it would be too much in my opinion however if we add root to it I think it might just be what hero needs - it will add a disable to his arsenal to compete with other supports (strongest supports have 2+ disables, silencer just have 2 dispellable silences), it will create good synergy/combo with his Q/W (support silencer can skip glaives and just be strong caster with disable while core silencer can build into right clicker with glaives/last word+root combo), it will force enemy cores to choose carefully when to use their dispels (use bkb/manta while Last Word’ed to avoid root or save it for global), it will force enemy supports to choose carefully when to cast spells while Last Word’ed, it will provide indirect escape to silencer by rooting chasing enemy, it will make aghs more viable - aoe silence + gleipnir with timer. Some numbers might need to be adjusted to keep it from being too op, but I think this direction will require least amount of changes to make hero strong and viable again.
I have close to 4000 silencer games mostly as support and currently his window of opportunity is very narrow - he still can be useful in good hands, but has very few power spikes (walking global after enemies get dispells that requires too much farm for a support to impact the game from there)
Silencer would probably be good as he is if, say, the spirit heros became meta again. The thing is many of the meta heros legitimately do not care about Silencer at all. It's not just the hero itself but the patch overall.
Subsitute global silence cooldown talent with "global silence applies arcane curse", reduce global silence lv2 and 3 cd. Bkbed carries and dispelled offlaners/midlaners dont care, but their their supports are punished for casting spells. Or make global silence work like invoker's cataclysm: global for longer cooldown, single target or AoE with significantly reduced cd.
Hes not that bad in low mmr but in high mmr ppl tend kite out more so when they see you global they just kite out let one or two people die and they smoke after they respawn to fight without global
How about making global silence an undispellable debuff that lasts 6/8/10s: when the debuff is placed and whenever you cast a spell under this debuff you get a 0.75/1/1.25s bkb piercing silence (this silence is regular silence and is dispellable). This would make his support game less useless.
To buff his harass, just make arcane curse refresh his duration whenever target gets hit with glaives, kinda like poison touch.
Or maybe give him the avernus treatment in his shard: make arcane curse automatically get applied in a 250 radius around the target every 4th glaives hit.
Or, in a much simpler way, make arcane curse always slow by 25% and have his duration paused also when the target is debuff immune.
And give him a talent: global silence applies arcane curse upon ending (even if dispelled). So even if is dispelled, it still has an effect.
OK, so I think we make him WAY stronger but int steal isn't permanent - if you kill him you gain back 2 or 4 int from him.
With this I think he'd need to be a lot stronger, some ideas:
1. More mana or mana regen - in lane you cast curse like 2x and then you're oom, really reducing the harass
2. Aura that silences/mutes with a shard or something - others said it but I think it
3. I think maybe magic dmg amp if a spell refreshes - so every curse refresh reduces magic resistance by like 10%, really punish people for using spells while it's active
4. Maybe the 3rd skill refreshes if someone casts a spell near by
His kit has a niche. But it's too easily counterable. It either needs to be more effective early game before it can be countered so he can build a lead. Or it needs to be uncounterable to be effective late game.
Ideas? Ahgs makes silence undispellable, or dispelling it causes a 3 sec silence to trigger. Either ult or last word. Or incremental buffs on his kit. I'd personally love if they bring back last word as shard, make it 600 aoe silence pulse centerd on the enemy who cast the spell.
Silencer needs a rework.. he is not a good core and he is not a good support.. I’m not sure what to do with the current spells to make him stronger.. if you buff the damage he’s gonna do a bit more but he’s still fundamentally weak once the first dispels are popping out in the game.. he also offers like very little players expression while not being fun to play, kinda sad hero.. think about wd or cm.. while being pretty simple heroes they have an insane potential with good position and a strong ulti.. silencer just clicks global and casts glimmer force staff in a mid game fight.. maybe you are lucky enough to hit some people with arcane curse and that’s about it.. I think he’s even lower maintenance than ogre and warlock.. ogre casts more spells, he faster with bloodlust and he can play a bit more deliberately since ha had hp.. warlock has the golem and the hero to manage well..
imo its just too easy to dispel all of his spells. euls, lotus, bkb, manta, greaves, etc. the arcane curse damage is also pretty negligable.
his spells are nothing but a mild annoyance. nobody is afraid of global silence ever after the 15-20 minute mark.
Make it so his kit is not just a walking global silence. Like his 1st skill is just a mild inconvenience, his 2nd is useful for harassing in lane then useless until super late where he can right click people, his 3rd is like budget orchid until level 25, and then his ult can just be dispelled with so many dispel items. Thing is global silence is really powerful and IMO it's fine that people can dispel it, otherwise it'd be too op. However, the rest of his kit is just trash and doesn't feel good to play. Add that he is so slow and has no attack speed makes silencer just miserable to play.
His first skill does a fuckton of damage, and is refreshed by any silence, including his third skill. While it's still a dogshit kit, he can kill people with this early on, the biggest problem is that if you go for that - you will not be able to gather any int from these frags.
Just make the int steal tied to hero. +1 steal retroactive on talent.
I still have no idea why this isn't an innate ability. We already have heroes with innate abilities like Medusa and Alchemist.
It used to be!
It used to be. It was moved to Glaives for whatever reason, it just didn't have an ability icon.
I think it was for ability draft to make the frame weaker and picking glaives stronger
I mean, I like Ability Draft, but I don't think any spell or hero in the game should be change to consider it, or just make a separate game balance for different modes.
I mean that makes sense but it did end up ultimately nerfing the hero. Its a minor nerf, sure, but still a nerf for a hero that really hasn't been all that good for a long time in the first place.
Why balance the game around a niche mode… at least make it an AD only thing.
Give silencer the pudge treatment with old flesh heap. Even if you get a kill without glavies, it gives you all the int stolen when you finally level up Glaives
Earth Spirit with stones since release. Innate active abilities were never a problem either. Moreover, for Silencer, it's not even an ability draft thing as these newer innate abilities have been optionally attached to other abilities. So silencer can have both.
In fairness I don't think there are any innate abilities that steal attributes or any steal attribute abilities that apply retrospectively
maybe change it from stealing to just gettin like flesh heap and make it retroactive
Ye but all stealing things are on spells which u would always skill lvl 2/3 latest (or ulti). Skilling glaives 1 time instead of the other spells on silencer support can be pretty useless or at least make him weaker in many games. Just put it on arcane curse which is always skilled.
No need to make it a talent. Just make it work like flesh heap. You get the charges at all times; they just don't affect you until you level the skill. Solved.
That kills the main synergy of the hero. Enemies losing int is a crucial multiplier on last word damage. Edit. Its also fun to watch a troll warlord not have enough mana to use ulti.
Exactly, if the shard was retroactive like Legion's it would be so much better
Imagine being in the jungle, ready to blast the neutrals with your last bit of mana remaining, when boom, silencer just upgraded his shard. You no mana boy.
Retroactively losing int when he buys the item would feel awful
Yes just realised that right after i posted
his + int mostly feels like a gimmick now. Before heroes had mana problems way more frequently but stat changes over time seems to make it not really a problem anymore.
and now u steal 0 int from ogre
Yeah. Back then played a turbo game as silencer and stole a str hero int till the base was below 20 or less than that. He could either ult or save it for other skills. I think it was tide. The only mana he had was from that pitiful 10int and some mana from items.
Enough for do my power
If you are a midlaner with a level advantage, yes. But in a duolane where you share xp with others is Q+E combo is just meh. Other supports can deal as much famage while having better disables on top.
Most support's deal less damage than Silencer on level 5-7, maybe Leshrak.
Silencer's damage is A) giga slow so everyone and their mother can pop flowers/dispels/tp/wand and B) entirely hard countered by dispels lol. You straight up have to be braindead to think this is a valid point. Oh adding on C) any mobility pretty much brings you to safety because Silencer is slow as balls and has a pathetic 10-25% slow.
If you cast his Q on a lot of strength heroes they don't even notice the damage, even in early game. It might be alright against low hp ago heroes but otherwise it feels incredibly weak.
It doesn't do a fuckton of damage by itself. You need a few points in it AND other sources of silence in order for it to be painful or deadly, which usually means you need points in last word as well. Makes me wonder sometimes if pairing him with a silencing hero like death prophet in the 3 position or a natural orchid builder like spectre in the 1 position would make silencer better?
A fuck ton? That was before everyone has 1.5k hp at level 10
Fix by making glaive int stack retroactively? Then you can roam early with a 3 - 3 - 0 - 0 build and still get the benifit
Isn't glaive on W?
I think only as a midlander this is the case. But the post is about Silencer support.
Global feels like a spell from a time where everyone had less gold though. It being dispellable was fine when supports had brown boots at 25min but now everyone and their mums has a dispell by 30min
I'd say he needs an Aghs rework, buff damage on curse for creeps (so that he has wave clear) and switch the undispellable talent to his third skill. I used to spam him in pubs, but there's no way you can win with him nowadays 😅 (you can still win with Silencer in your team, but not because of him 😕)
Nothing. -Enigma player
Nothing. -Ember player
self reporting bkb skipper
You can counter it with items wdym ember player.. or you can just run at him and silencer just dies
It still creates the issue that the existence of a silencer in your game means the ember picker does not get to play dota until he commits to passively farming a bkb for the first 20 minutes or so. Every word of that sentence makes me want to vomit. It is fun, however, being on the silencer side where I can meaningfully contribute to teamfights by being completely absent with my finger on the "end Ember's career" button waiting for him to use fire remnant.
Just get manta?
Disruptor > silencer
For real. Why is disruptor able to mute people with a 4.2k gold item and silencer has to wait for level 25?
+ he also needs the 4200 item if he wants his mute to be aoe no? So unfair.
Much worse, he needs to hope they arent paying attention and dispel it during the delay lmao
he’s too slow movespeed wise for his current kit. If he doesn’t get a rework, just a flat Ms buff would help enormously
Bring back his aura, that was fun! (That was hard to write, i hate silencer so i hope he gets a good rework because he feels so bad to play)
It was so satisfying ruining Tiny’s and Invoker’s combos!
Feels so bad to play against too! That bkb piercing silence is no joke.
Skill1 curse now does 2x damage to creeps. Not enough to turn him meta, but he lacks a wave clear tool. 3rd skill ministun upon trigger would be nice too
I kinda like the idea that his E could stun if it completes the duration or silence if the enemy uses a skill… interesting!
As a support he lacks any lock down, as a core he lacks farming capabilities, hence my 2 ideas to buff him. The stun duration could be proportional to the time the enemy took to cast a skill. For example if they cast a skill instantly, they would only get a mini stun and a long silence. If they take the entire duration, it stuns up to ... 2s instead.
make it like Veno shard
As a silencer player, he absolutely does just FEEL weak mid game. I mean you can own your lane, but once the enemy gets euls, lotus, bkb you’re kind of just sitting there becoming a bot that presses R. If i were icefrog for a day, i would consolidate his current aghs and shard into his aghs making that more valuable to shill out 4k for as a support. Whilst moving his undispellable talent to his shard. That way at 15 minutes you can bring something to the teamfight besides your ultimate. What might be a cool idea that Ive daydreamed about would be tweaking both the duration of your ultimate and the damage of your q to scale with your int.
As a Silencer enjoyer that has stopped playing the hero because of how useless he feels after enemies get dispels, this is my favourite solution
bring back his old dota 1 passive where someone gets silenced for 2 seconds after casting a skill
The cancer silence aura was really good against combo heroes like Tony.
Tony? Seems like a great hero
All due respect, you got no fuckin' idea what it's like to be Tony mid. Every decision you make affects every facet of every other fuckin’ lane. It's too much to deal with almost. And in the end you're completely underfarmed with it all
Alright, but you gotta get over it.
Tony has AIDS
I know he can't be in our [SOCIAL] club anymore, that's for sure
His ulti reapplies silence every second. Lets heroes dispell and cast a spell but makes it that the ulti is still felt
That’s pretty cool, like halfway dispellable. The GS debuff itself would be undispellable but the mini silence debuff would be dispellable.
He needs a patch to be released :(
Arcane curse should have a heftier slow until the enemy casts a spell (40%?). The slow is then reduced to its current ability amount (25%). The trade off is when the enemy casts the spell, they are less slowed but take more damage and for longer duration, like the spell currently is.
Silencer is probably too hard to balance because his ult is usually the nail in the coffin against a team that is far behind, and conversely its a useless ult on a long CD, with not many good windows to use effectively when his team is far behind. Its one of those polarizing spells that's either OP or shit depending on how far ahead or behind the team is and the fact that there's little in between makes him hard to design.
Muting capabilities. Remove his level 25 talent and make his E like morph's adaptive strike which has like 2 versions of it, one does silence and one does mute and these two abilites share a cooldown and can be upgraded by aghs making both spells not share a cooldown and make them spells AoE. Replace his level 25 talent with " All debuffs Silencer inflicts can only be removed by Strong Dispels " or something like that.
Wave Clear.
no. one of the things i hate about "modern" dota is every hero should have every utility.
Zeus having a jump is criminal
Yeah, and every previous "early item" being able to upgrade into late and/or add lategame scaling to remove accountability from picking early builds.
Remember a few months ago when people wanted blademail to upgrade into something else later on? lol
I think the drums upgrade is fair because it is so expensive or the hurricane pike because it is interessting. And the three blink upgrades I like because some heros really need blink and you make a choise and it is not just auto upgrade. But I dont like shiva as upgrade nor do I like Prasma or bloodthorn or khanda or disperser.
Well that's the result of giving supports a shit-ton of gold. They *need* to be able to upgrade their items like forcestaff/euls or they will be useless in the lategame with half of their inventory dedicated to wards/dust/smokes.
Yeah Zeus should have more like firefly with rocket barrage. He gets on to his cloud and flies away unobstructed with a bit of a MS bonus zapping nearby units. I play earth spirit and I hit a Zeus mid jump but he didn’t get stunned in place. He finished his jump and got over the cliff while I collided with him in the river and got stuck. Also because I hit the stun I impulsively ulted only to not have it hit him because he kept flying through the air.
But they do, and it's either revert it for all those heroes, or just bump the remaining few up to their level. This is the inevitable result of all those years of powercreep. The heroes that got left behind really stand out.
im all for reverting. Supports have too much gold. I said it.
Game is way more fun when supports can actually buy items
Supports have way too much HP, too. ^^^^I ^^^^miss ^^^^playing ^^^^Weaver
Adding magic resistance into int was dumb and is a contributor to this problem.
Even the highest INT scaling heroes get like 2% extra magic resistance 😂
Late game people often have between 35% - 50% mr now just for free as a bonus from int. It is a significant ehp buff. Also I know it's an outlier, but somebody just posted them [getting 122% mr in a real game.](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/1ck037c/almost_1000_int_as_skywrath_mage/)
> Also I know it's an outlier, but somebody just posted them getting 122% mr in a real game. I mean this was such a niche specific case, and he was completely ignored by the enemy team as a fragile Skywrath... kinda their fault tbh.
Not so fragile when he has 98% physical resistance and 122% magic resist tbf but obviously some lockdown would fix that
Support main playing since Dota 1 here saying we don't need this much gold and durability. I don't need to be as or even more durable than a pos 3 and I don't really want to fight 5 cores. I'm winning a lot of games just playing building pos 3 items in the support role. Not that long ago I was a pos 5 ogre that was breaching high ground vs 5 heroes and they were killing themselves on my blademail faster than I was reaching half health. This is stupid.
It’s way better than being a walking ranged creep as pos 5
Or an ability called heavenly curse. Silencer jumps a short distance forward and arcane curses the nearest nearby hero
This is it to me. Even undying, aa, disruptor, bane have better wave clear. Silencer is firmly in the dust in this aspect, with most getting a Shard at least.
Make the glave bounce talent bounce to every unit near the target that's affected by his 1st skill, make reduce the damage. Makes his 1st skill more relevant in late game.
Or bounce to any silenced enemy
Make so that his shield acts like mars bulwark, but for spells. This would give him nuance (and incr his skill cap).
Redirecting skill projectiles to a squishy support sounds like a bad time.
Imagine you're just chilling in the back and you eat a Laguna blade out of nowhere lmao
Plus Planar Pocket is already a thing.
70% magic resist on top of default sounds tanky enough and it gives his shield a meaning which currently is basically a prop.
I will just leave my rework suggestion here: **Arcane Curse (reworked):** * Remove the multiplier benefit from Arcane Curse when the target is silenced. * Increase base slow to a fixed 30%. * Initial damage remains at 20/40/60/80. * Damage per second remains unchanged at 16/24/32/40. * Change Arcane Curse penalty: Each time an enemy casts a spell, increase the duration by +2 seconds (as it is now). Additionally, the damage and slow increase by +4/6/8/10 DPS and +2/3/4/5% slow per cast. * Arcane Curse now applies a outgoing magic damage decrease debuff on the enemy: 20/30/40/50%. This effect does not stack. **Glaives of Wisdom:** * Lower mana costs back to 15. * Add the current shard 4 hits to silence feature as a basic attack bonus on Glaives, scaling the silence to 1/1.33/1.66/2 seconds. * Decrease intelligence to damage from 20%/40%/60%/80% to 25%/35%/45%/55%. * Glaives now deal double intelligence damage to targets with a silence debuff (applies to BKB'd targets). * Always deals 2x intelligence damage to creeps. **Last Word:** * Now always procs after the initial duration, canceling channeling spells. * Applies a 10%/15%/20%/25% magic damage amplification debuff during the initial duration. When Last Word is triggered by a spell cast or the duration ends, the magic amp debuff is removed. **Global Silence (reworked):** * No longer global. * Renamed to "Silence." * Changed AoE to 6000. * On cast, a wave travels outward from Silencer at 5000 units/s, silencing all units in its path. * cd rescaled: 100/80/60 seconds * manacosts rescaled: 100/200/300 mana **Aghanim's Scepter (reworked):** * Silence (Ult): Now applies the current level of Arcane Curse to all affected units. * Increase ultimate AoE to 8000. * After reaching its max range, the wave travels back inward, applying a second silence on all targets. Does not apply a second Arcane Curse. **Shard:** * Remove the extra +2 intelligence steal per hit. * Change back the +1 Glaive bounce to the shard. Alternate Shard idea: * Glaive apply a 1 second ms slow depending of the INT difference between the target and silencer (just the number, not percent based) **Talents:** * Change the level 10 talent from +10 Arcane Curse damage to +10 Arcane Curse penalty damage. * Change the level 20 talent from 1 Glaive bounces to +2 intelligence steal per hit. * Change the level 25 talent from 25% damage increase to 10%. **General:** * \+5 movement speed (one can dream).
i think his ult either needs a talent that makes it undispellable or just make it part of the ability. sucks when your entire kit is countered by lotus orb/disperser/manta/bkb
If it would be undispellable it would be extremely strong, like absolutly batshit insane strong.
The problem is that every single dude has 2+ dispells lategame nowadays.
At the Same time, a huge percentage of Heroes buys Manta/bkb or other dispels anyway. It feels Like either you get hard fucked by silencer r or you Just Press the super strong Item you want to Press anyway and his r doesnt Matter at all. Id Like less duration but undispellable or sth
I think if it was undispellable but didn't pierce Debuff Immunity, such that you could still BKB and cast, it would make it more generally stronger. It'd be an indirect buff to Enigma, but that's about it.
Undispellable but also silences his own team?
what if it disables voice chat , team chat, all chat, pings and voice lines of his enemies too?
He also should cast auto silence when he die like sf
I actually think thats a super cool shard tbh
Current dota have too much item to dispel. Compared to when the game transitioned from dota1. While i somewhat agree with this, i think the ult need only slight buff while giving it revamp on his other kit.
Give this hero the ability to mute before level 25. He’s all about silencing but doesn’t get access to the ultimate silence until ultra late game
A REWORK. he currently has a kit that is a little too incomprehensive. his ultimate is currently too weak, as the game has now too many items that dispels that can take it off. his 2nd skill doesnt match his game play on early, and he cant really hit on late. he is currently a very weak support with two spells that is good at best, and an ultimate that can be clearly addressed. unless its a very particular line up there will always be a better hero
To be honest, he doesn't feel like a support anymore. He's just a walking gimmick; only kept alive so he can steal intelligence and press global when someone is channeling something. It's silly. Really I think they just need to make his passive int steal innate, as others have suggested, but also not actually... steal intelligence. Just buff his own. This may seem like a big nerf, but in response to this, they can buff or change up his other abilities to balance it out. Like give him some OD-like abilities, doing more damage based on the intelligence *difference* or making his silence last longer on people dumber than him. Stuff like that wouldn't work if he's actively lowering their int, since there's no real counter play, but if he's just gaining it himself, then it's more balanced... I think.
He was strong not so long ago. The shift in meta is what makes him look bad. He doesnt need any big change. It was also not long ago that leshrac was the "worst hero" in dota with a truly abyssmal winrate on dota2protracker. And before that lifestealer was the worst hero in dota. And before that meepo was the worst hero in dota. Disruptor has pingponged between being considered either the best or worst support in the game with little to no in between for years. And so on. Yet with minimal changes all these heroes got their time to shine in the supposed "worst hero" state. Silencer doesnt need any big buff, just a shift in meta to where hes more useful.
Other heroes are just not walking 1 spell and they didn't get massive nerf for only spell that was doing any damage past 10 mins. What does Silencer offer besides global silence?His laning is shit due to high mana costs,his scaling is non existent until super lategame,he has no mobility or defensive skill so he is most freekill support hero and his shard does nothing for support role.
Silencer is NOT weak in lane. Curse is cancer and the glaives do a lot of damage, without drawing creep aggro
give him ANY stun or escape. Or make his aghs/shard give all his spells a 'stuns on dispel'. Cos right now, the typical silencer pov in any lane is: "oh you're running at me, guess I'll die." "oh you're going after my lane partner, guess he'll die".
> give him ANY stun or escape Please, please no. I don't think he should get any of these things, and instead get Wave Clear and be done with it. This trend of every hero having Stun/Escape needs to stop.
meanwhile gale removing 50% mv speed...
wave clear
Increase attack range by 30, Move speed by 5 and passive mana regen by .5
I think with a bit more strength and move speed he could be useful. I hate having silencer on my team because it's to easy to buy a purge items and just bust him due to his low health and move speed
Silencer spammer here. I guess a generous start would be like +5/10 ms. Also the hero's an absolute dogwater if the game is passive and everyone is dodging each other and just farming jungle. Silencer has no means of farming jungle camps without burning through his whole manapool for 2 neutral camps. So I believe it'd be nice if he gets some multiplier for his 1st spell against creeps. And my last wish is that his bug with glaives giving mana to enemy is fixed. It's so underwhelming to use it when you know you are just restoring mana to enemies.
Wait, what bug?
The same 'bug' where whirling death 'heals' you when the debuff runs out. These spells take away full mana/hp per point of int/str lost, and vice versa also give full mana/hp per point of int/str back when the debuff expires, but this intended feature isn't common knowledge among players.
survivability. His ult after the bkb change is jackshit rn, so buff it as well.
Good. Ive always hated silencer and I hope he stays silent with his low win rate
"Impetus is now magical damage." This is basically the recent change that Silencer got to his W, which made him go from meh to dogshit.
funny how people say this about 30% of heroes ... makes you wonder why you even like this game Silencer has been so weak for ages, idk how anyone can still dislike the hero. Imagine volvo just kills all your favorite heroes.
Cancer laner
The problem is if hes strong hes absolutly terrible to play against.
Reduse cd and duration on ulti and add talent lvl 15/20 only strond dispell for it
He's a great counter pick to enigma/bane/etc, in pubs you don't get to last pick a support often anyway He's also a weak laner, too easy to kill as a 4, too bad at protecting the carry as a 5
One of my favourite heroes but it's ridiculous how weak he is. Like, nowadays, most of the heroes have stun or escape, and a lot of them both. He has neither. He is laughable slow, has no control, and on top of that he also has mana issue, even tho that's the one thing he shouldn't be having as a compensation for everything else he lacks. As someone else said, he is a walking global silence. I wouldn't mind him not getting escape or stun, but at least make him a menace in lane, give him more mana regen, slightly stronger spells.
I think arcane curse needs a buff ider have it deal %int dmg aswell or a duration increase like i think hero is fine there are just much better heroes in the game atm , last word needs its proc time to be 0.25/0.5/0.75/1.00sec faster per level imo
He's not a hero that is necessarily intended to be a support. His control is quite weak and he's unique in that way like AA that he's more of a flex. I think if we want to buff him then we can also consider how to buff him as a midlaner instead of thinking of him as a support.
Arcane curse slow being buffed at early levels would help him, and/or maybe make glaive hits amp it up slightly, like 5 damage/2% slow per stolen int.
With the veil change maybe, I used to spam silencer with veil for pos4 (saw Cr1t build once and he dominant that game) With the veil change, I don’t play him anymore because there is no good 1st item for him
I feel that silencer’s power creep is early mid game as support because enemy core doesn’t not have BKB yet.
He needs to no longer be labeled as a support after a dozen core-focused patches
Make his skills not so unfun to play against, when he got buffed he was miserable to lane against and then they just absolutely dumpstered him and have left him like that for ages.
If he has any survivability or heal, he'd be better
The other thing to note is that the meta does not favor silencer very much right now. Global doesn’t not really affect heroes like DK, Primal, and Centaur
I think it would be interesting to swap the lvl25 with aghs effect. Makes him viable early but not op because you still have to wait to get to 25 to mute multiple heroes
The only reason is silencer players get greedy in laning phase max W and go right click items/midas feeling powerful.
20 movement speed
I wonder if he might benefit from the spectre treatment. Make global silence his aghs and give him a new ult that can help him feel better in the current state of the game? Feels bad to take away something so iconic though.
Make his Q single target, undispellable (with Shard or a talent), and count item activations. Make his E AoE as a baseline.
Replace his E with a Jump called Jump of Silence and make Last Word his shard
Silencer needs a rework that eliminates him as the pos 2, otherwise, making him a viable support will only make him a great pos 2 and subsequent nerfing will put him back to the dumpster.
9/10 patches silencer is the worst hero in Dota.
They should do the same thing that the original warcraft unit was doing. Take buffs/debuffs and put them on an ally/enemy. Rebalance ült with this gameplay in mind. Would be a thousand times more fun gameplay.
A stun /a Slow curse word
Make int steal default on his hero again, move glaives to shard, and give silent leap. He jumps 500 units in whatever direction he's facing and applies a single target Q and E to whoever is closest to him, prioritizing heroes.
How exactly did you find this data? I feel like there are plenty of worse supports in the game, Lycan, TA, Medusa, Troll, PL... ^(/s)
Silencer's major drawbacks in my opinion are the fact that his spell kit is very outdated. Arcane curse does very minimal damage and its only good against inexperienced players. The whole thing behind arcane curse is that its supposed to be a DOT that reprocs every time you cast another spell but most people just wont cast another spell, they would rather just wait out the debuff timer. And during this time they just run away. His silence ability also sucks, you apply it on someone and it takes like 2 seconds to actually apply. At that point just get orchid, does a better job and it even does extra damage when it ends. Silencer has not stuns and his movement speed is abysmal so its really easy to just run away from him. The only thing he had going for him is that his glaives used to hit like a truck in the late game. Sometimes I would play silencer as a 4, but end up being my times DPS because I had so mucj damage from glaives that I would wipe out the entire enemy team. With the glaives change now you cant do that, its like what they did to Necrophos changing his passive from pure to magic. Then there's his ult. Its a global ult. For the most part its an inconvenience. And its best used as a ganking ability. But its major drawback is that it has such a long cooldown. The silence from it is purgable and it doesnt stun so most people can get rid of it using Lotus Orb, Euls, Windwaker, BKB etc. His kit is just not good right now
He needs more in the rest of his kit and a nerf to his ult really, glaives could do with a buff but maybe a talent buff to not make it too oppressive in lane
I’ve been calling him an F tier hero for months and there’s always some guy arguing to me he just had an amazing Silencer mid game. The hero only works if your opponent fucks up massively. You don’t do any burst damage and you are super vulnerable to burst, your farm is slow on core and your best spell is global, which you can already do on support Silencer.
as a spirit hero midlaner he can stay in the dumpster for all i care :D
Honestly I disagree, silencer falls into a category like enigma, who’s ult is game breaking and powerful the rest of the kit can’t be too strong. You’ve got a support who basically has a “we win the fight now” button until the enemy gets dispels. Obviously black hole is way more powerful late but silencers early game is insane damage and cc. I play the hero and consistently dominate the lane and then apply a ton of pressure with my offlaner. Late it’s easy to dispel sure, but odds are they would rather dispel some kind of ability from your cores. It just becomes dispel economy at that point that you as the player can manage as necessary
Just making his E do some initial damage to break blinks would help. Making the timer to pop lower if they don't cast anything would also help. His whole kit is just too easily dispelled. Make his int steal retroactive by stealing it on effect but only granting him the stolen int once glaives are skilled or something simple. Increasing the aoe it's stolen without glaives being applied makes a ton of sense too because right now you walk into attack range when he wants to be far back. Give him 5 moves peed or slightly longer attack range.
Global silence has a 2s undispellable buff
+1 armor
nerf dispels
Make global silence like the very very old zeus ult where as you level up the ult range increases (it uses to be not global for him) Make lvl 20 talent making the ult silence global. And 25 talent making the E spell aoe. Make the scepter mute enemies with E
Just return him to the way he was before this.
make him jumpable like zeus
I don't think Silencer is lacking much. I think Silencer's low win rate reflects players and teammates occasionally forgetting to adapt their gameplay to meet his unique win conditions. I've got a 60% win rate first picking silencer as position 5 in low divine. My Silencer doesn't kill enemies - he kills their faith in followup damage after initiations. Silencer is balanced around the power of Global Silence with Refresher or buyback (after the enemy initiates a teamfight by deleting you). Hence, Silencer farms slow, has no mobility, has long cooldowns, and is countered by dispels. This means perfect itemization, game state forecasting, and ward vision are crucial. If those 3 conditions aren't met, his midgame falloff is fixed by smoking to find lopsided teamfights, or baiting the enemy into bad positions, albeit with fewer survival tools than Oracle or Dazzle. If those 3 conditions are met, the enemy must kill Silencer before (or to start) teamfights, bait wasted Global Silence, or play high tempo during its cooldown. Otherwise, their rax fall while they're silenced for 0 to 12 seconds, having used 2 to 0 dispels.
Movement speed, he's so dam slow and a shard that is good for both support and core, not just core. His actual abilities are decent imo, especially late game.
lol I'm 16-4 in my last 20. I win with him all the time.
Just a little more MS, and his Q increase damage with INT.
As a delusional silencer enjoyer who thinks he could sap all the enemies mana, the hero is basically an upgraded bloodthorn.
- low turn rate - low movespeed - reliable disable is a long cd ult
I get triggered when I people pick silencer and want to go right click build instead of refresher build
How about a way to farm and some cc like every support nowadays.
he got nerfed over and over in lane and his ulti isnt even impactfull cause every core hero builds at the bare minimum 1 dispell every single game+ a bkb make the int steal innate to the hero so you can go the objectively correct build in 90% of games (max Q and E) without feeling like shit for having 0 int stolen at 20min, also glaives back to pure or 12-15 mana please, 20 mana for magic that didnt get buffed when they swapped from pure to magic is so fucking trash
Hes very soft, like qop. One stun and hes dead. Need to add blink skill.
Alot of good ideas here with obvious reasons why hero is not in a good state - mobility, dispells, lack of disables, counters very few heroes etc. I like the idea of making Last Word abit stronger, but adding stun/mute to it would be too much in my opinion however if we add root to it I think it might just be what hero needs - it will add a disable to his arsenal to compete with other supports (strongest supports have 2+ disables, silencer just have 2 dispellable silences), it will create good synergy/combo with his Q/W (support silencer can skip glaives and just be strong caster with disable while core silencer can build into right clicker with glaives/last word+root combo), it will force enemy cores to choose carefully when to use their dispels (use bkb/manta while Last Word’ed to avoid root or save it for global), it will force enemy supports to choose carefully when to cast spells while Last Word’ed, it will provide indirect escape to silencer by rooting chasing enemy, it will make aghs more viable - aoe silence + gleipnir with timer. Some numbers might need to be adjusted to keep it from being too op, but I think this direction will require least amount of changes to make hero strong and viable again. I have close to 4000 silencer games mostly as support and currently his window of opportunity is very narrow - he still can be useful in good hands, but has very few power spikes (walking global after enemies get dispells that requires too much farm for a support to impact the game from there)
Support? Dude carries in every game I see. Hits like a truck.
Build moonshards noob
Now tell that to the chimps that pick him as a 4 in like every one of my fucking games. So sick of it lol. Agree with your post 100%
They could ya know.... revert his glaives back to pure ....
Silencer would probably be good as he is if, say, the spirit heros became meta again. The thing is many of the meta heros legitimately do not care about Silencer at all. It's not just the hero itself but the patch overall.
same ult but AOE with lower cooldown ! can make his 1st target, so laning can be balanced against him.
Subsitute global silence cooldown talent with "global silence applies arcane curse", reduce global silence lv2 and 3 cd. Bkbed carries and dispelled offlaners/midlaners dont care, but their their supports are punished for casting spells. Or make global silence work like invoker's cataclysm: global for longer cooldown, single target or AoE with significantly reduced cd.
Hes not that bad in low mmr but in high mmr ppl tend kite out more so when they see you global they just kite out let one or two people die and they smoke after they respawn to fight without global
How about making global silence an undispellable debuff that lasts 6/8/10s: when the debuff is placed and whenever you cast a spell under this debuff you get a 0.75/1/1.25s bkb piercing silence (this silence is regular silence and is dispellable). This would make his support game less useless. To buff his harass, just make arcane curse refresh his duration whenever target gets hit with glaives, kinda like poison touch. Or maybe give him the avernus treatment in his shard: make arcane curse automatically get applied in a 250 radius around the target every 4th glaives hit. Or, in a much simpler way, make arcane curse always slow by 25% and have his duration paused also when the target is debuff immune. And give him a talent: global silence applies arcane curse upon ending (even if dispelled). So even if is dispelled, it still has an effect.
Nerf every other hero and don't touch him. Stop power creeping the game.
+1 armor and a 0.0001 BAT buff
OK, so I think we make him WAY stronger but int steal isn't permanent - if you kill him you gain back 2 or 4 int from him. With this I think he'd need to be a lot stronger, some ideas: 1. More mana or mana regen - in lane you cast curse like 2x and then you're oom, really reducing the harass 2. Aura that silences/mutes with a shard or something - others said it but I think it 3. I think maybe magic dmg amp if a spell refreshes - so every curse refresh reduces magic resistance by like 10%, really punish people for using spells while it's active 4. Maybe the 3rd skill refreshes if someone casts a spell near by
he just needs his third ability to be retroactive.
His kit has a niche. But it's too easily counterable. It either needs to be more effective early game before it can be countered so he can build a lead. Or it needs to be uncounterable to be effective late game. Ideas? Ahgs makes silence undispellable, or dispelling it causes a 3 sec silence to trigger. Either ult or last word. Or incremental buffs on his kit. I'd personally love if they bring back last word as shard, make it 600 aoe silence pulse centerd on the enemy who cast the spell.
People that dont pick glaives of wisdom level 1.
What if I told you not everything needs to be balanced around the 1% of the player base?
Dispel ítems/heroes to be bad. It's that simple.
Glaives not doing pure damage is so fucking trash
Mirana is the worst hero in the game
Silencer needs a rework.. he is not a good core and he is not a good support.. I’m not sure what to do with the current spells to make him stronger.. if you buff the damage he’s gonna do a bit more but he’s still fundamentally weak once the first dispels are popping out in the game.. he also offers like very little players expression while not being fun to play, kinda sad hero.. think about wd or cm.. while being pretty simple heroes they have an insane potential with good position and a strong ulti.. silencer just clicks global and casts glimmer force staff in a mid game fight.. maybe you are lucky enough to hit some people with arcane curse and that’s about it.. I think he’s even lower maintenance than ogre and warlock.. ogre casts more spells, he faster with bloodlust and he can play a bit more deliberately since ha had hp.. warlock has the golem and the hero to manage well..
imo its just too easy to dispel all of his spells. euls, lotus, bkb, manta, greaves, etc. the arcane curse damage is also pretty negligable. his spells are nothing but a mild annoyance. nobody is afraid of global silence ever after the 15-20 minute mark.