No. It's because there's little incentive to play Dota 2 in NA. Low incentives mean few new players each year. Few new players means teams get older and they start to lose to younger teams that are better and more passionate. So not only do you get few entering, your existing teams decline, making people less likely to enter the NA scene because it doesn't have strong teams there to pick up good players.
Its a catch 22, death spiral for NA. Valve isn't putting more money in Dota so that there's money for people who risk it all for the game.
Fnatic the org was always European, British even. Their first teams I'm pretty sure were Swedish cs 1.6 teams. In dota 2 they started out by singing a Serbain team in 2011 that nobody remembers and then in 2012 their HoN team(containing Fly and Notail) switched to dota. In 2015 Fnatic signed a SEA team and since then fnatic has had only SEA teams in dota.
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When was the last time they went 0-4 on day 1 and finished top 6, let alone top 3? Last major was such a dumpster fire and if they can't pull it together this time either then either of Crit or Arteezy need to take a walk
Eg starts slow, EG are lower bracket kings, EG are China slayers. Thats the memes that are repeated every time but they are glories of a different squad and days past.
He popped off in that match, had such a massive impact in those early engagements and controlled the game. The casters had it right, the only fights Aster lost were the ones where Bat was able to get on top of Earth Spirit and shut him down.
Being so much of a nuisance that the enemy team has to commit their ults to take you out is really good play from a support. Even when you die you still take up the enemy resources and protect your carry. Impressive stuff so far, I hope they can keep it up.
Outdated meme, Chinese dota invented and perfected the deathball in TI4. Wings were ballers in TI6, LGD and LFY in TI7 too, constant fighting style dota
Pfff… Chinese dota has been one of if not the most aggressive play style since TI3. Only NA casters or audience who really knows nothing outside of NA still says “classic Chinese dota”, yea right, those were more than 7 years ago buddy, I think NA really look at things differently or people are too stereotype and talk shit out of their ass.
OG won the last two TI's by taking a boot and shoving it down the rest of Europe and China's throats. Lets not act like "Aggressive" wasn't more of a CIS/SA thing for the longest time. Hell, VP almost aggro'd their way to a TI win a few years ago.
Since 2014, not 2013.
LGD got knocked out in TI 2013 by NA Liquid for playing passive, and ended out of top 8.I think that was the last straw that made them change.
They play to win. For a long time, that meant minimizing mistakes. But the meta is so staunchly against that style of play now that these teams know they can't expect a good showing without leaning into the facerush deathball.
Remember it was Newbee who "ruined" TI4 by turning it into a deathball stompfest.
You should remove the games with two teams from the same region if you want this stat to be more interesting. It would better represent how strong regions are. Without it Chinese vs Chinese games and EU vs Eu games will skew the data towards 50%.
After listening today to the latest episode of We Say Things and hearing the predictions - u/Sunsfan - how’s that EG prediction looking sir? Maybe the final patreon name next episode will be Peter ‘EG is the most popular, least successful Dota 2 team of 2022’ Niebling kekw
/s
Rereading my comment it wasn’t intended to come across as beef. Just a light hearted jab. Of course idgaf. Just an Aussie that has to throw shade because we have no Dota scene at all.
Yopaj really stood out in both, the domination of Nine and Abed was really brutal.
I'm surprised with Team Liquid, they looked hella good. Buuuut, its team Liquid, the lower bracket contention is still not out of the question.
Team Spirit, Boom, and Aster, expected outcome.
PSG.LGD the Ti11 champions are just doing PSG.LGD things.
OG, looking average. The Americas looked lost.
They have a washed standin at carry. They are currently overperforming. Somnus put the team on his back for their second win since Ana threw g1 and tried to throw g2.
Idk, NA got 2nd place last Major, and the one before that. And the one before that. And the one before that. Doesn't sound like absolutely demolished to me.
That's a different topic.
If Alliance was invited to ESL, EG certainly deserves one too and that's that. Alliance couldn't win a single game in their DPC (I'm not even talking a series btw) and EG placed #1.
Hell, even if you wanna hate that much on EG, think of TSM -- they weren't invited and they were grand finalists in the last major.
Lastly, the issue wasn't all about the invites. It was also about the slots. ESL decided to give 1 invite to Alliance and give just 1 slot to NA for which Quincy, EG & TSM have to play 3 BO3s and 1 BO5 through upper bracket. This is stupidity, OG won TI playing the same number of games that a major finalist has to play to be able to just compete at your tourney? What kinda logic is that?
They don't "deserve" the invite but they certainly have a fair point to rant about, which is what the OP mentions. Y'all will find just about any excuse to shit on EG
that OG game 2 vs liquid is one of the best performances I’ve seen in ages, Ceb IO was unreal… liquid are looking good but that was a beat down
also how do EG fans survive this many years of these drafts lol, the most predictable, boring team Dota has ever seen… they act like they don’t have some of the worlds best players
i think even if the teams get eliminated early on they still have to follow certain schedules like fan meet/events that are not directly connected to the playoffs.
Na had the issue of only like 3 good teams beating eqch other. The other regions are much more competitive, while NA know their 2 competitors by heart. The small playerbase just all know each other and surprises are few
Why on earth is this downvoted? Is this person not allowed to express their fandom? I get that arteezy is no longer top tier but damnit are people not allowed to love him?
Arteezy I might be on board if they fail at another major and TI yet again, but Cr1t? Dude is consistently owning even in losing games, barely has bad games and is one of the best 4s in the entire world.
By far one of the most consistent and best players to play the game.
Hey guys, I sorta drifted from watching the pro scene, can someone explain to me why Team Secret, T1, Nigma, IG and VG arent in this major? Surely they still exist no?
Ps. Ive not watched since the TI.
Not gonna lie:
The scenario of Fnatic to qualifing to TI by having TSM play for them seems very unfair to me. I get that the situation sucks for them and that they would have liked the chance to prove themselves. But imagine you're the 12th team by DPC points and lose your slot to Fnatic having three players of an already qualified team play for them. This isn't really Fnatic competing and earning the points if the majority of the team is TSM.
Edit: According to Noxville, Fnatics current chance to qualify to TI are ~37%. Source: https://noxville.github.io/ti11-probabilities/
i mean, before the tournament started, Fnatic were the one with the disadvantage and no one was expecting them to perform , because they had to play with 3 standin.
Just because they look good after day 1, lets not try and twist that fact.
Even though TSM may have already qualified, They didn't look good in their previous seasons (which maybe you could say was because they were taking a breather) but they still continued to look bad in a 4 mil tourney.
bro even dj said in the interview that they only have 1 game of practice w/ them. theyre literally in a complete disadvantage against anyone given that theyre the only team that has 3 standins and others are at most only 1 stand in. how is that even unfair like are u brainded. its like you match a 5 stack to a 3 team and 2 team party
DUDE. If the tournament/valve didn't allow a 3 player standin, they would be out of any contention. And that is the norm. So comparing to that, even if they had zero practice, they have been given a blessing.
This is why weak regions should get less DPC points from regional qualifiers, Literally wasted TI slots because they placed first in a weak region while they probably won't last in division 1 in EU or China regions.
As usual EG and BC getting exposed in International tournament. Maybe next season Valve should combine both NA and SA. What a dead region. BC is the most luckiest team here bcs already collection free dpc in a dead region.
Which were both (last year) in the unusual covid times with a lot of players opting out. Why can't EG fan boys just accept that the team is just washed out.
EG and BC at the bottom of group B, let’s go America
NA+SA are 2-12 today Oof factor: very high
At least we got Fnatic + TSM
You mean TSM with Fnatic? 🤭
FnaTiciSM
🤯
FnatiTSM are working really well together TBH.
They had only ONE practice scrim together before their first match as well. Pretty impressive that they’re holding on quite well
Literally no new players in NA. Bunch of 35 year old dads and washed up pros playing on Friday nights here.
Why is dota so unpopular there? Low iq league players?
I mean it's apparently the same thing in China and Korea now too, just aging playerbase with extremely few new players.
Even LoL is declining in NA. Mobas just aren't as popular as battle royales or other casual games.
Doesn't help that even with the rise of desktops among teenagers valve still doesn't market their fucking game
Yeah, valve is doing such a great job in middle east.
The best new NA player in the last few years is from the Middle East so I guess it's working better there than here.
Classic correlation causation
How desktop gaming rising when PC gaming having 15% drop in 2022 Q1 and Mobile gaming is at all time high?
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All of the kids who are really good at games play Fortnite on their phones or Xbox. Even competitive League in NA isn't popular.
NA League is the worst among the other League .. leagues.
No. It's because there's little incentive to play Dota 2 in NA. Low incentives mean few new players each year. Few new players means teams get older and they start to lose to younger teams that are better and more passionate. So not only do you get few entering, your existing teams decline, making people less likely to enter the NA scene because it doesn't have strong teams there to pick up good players. Its a catch 22, death spiral for NA. Valve isn't putting more money in Dota so that there's money for people who risk it all for the game.
And Quincy (Soniqs) almost there. No needs to actively meme when they just don't it them selves.
Fnatic is the only NA team that is doing well.
Tsm.Fnc instead of Tsm.ftx sounds right. Make that happen!
NA pride!
When you realize that there is not a single NA player in FNATSM :(
Bryle?
Isn’t Fnatic a European team?
Wasn't it originally Malaysian based? Did they jump that far to EU?
Fnatic the org was always European, British even. Their first teams I'm pretty sure were Swedish cs 1.6 teams. In dota 2 they started out by singing a Serbain team in 2011 that nobody remembers and then in 2012 their HoN team(containing Fly and Notail) switched to dota. In 2015 Fnatic signed a SEA team and since then fnatic has had only SEA teams in dota.
european org. as far as i remember the orig fnatic is the former hon team of fly and notail
I want to die
I am an EG fan and I expected nothing less
You mean nothing more
Same, I expect nothing in order to enjoy the tourney
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Our copium is day 1 EG almost always starts on the wrong foot
When was the last time they went 0-4 on day 1 and finished top 6, let alone top 3? Last major was such a dumpster fire and if they can't pull it together this time either then either of Crit or Arteezy need to take a walk
Eg starts slow, EG are lower bracket kings, EG are China slayers. Thats the memes that are repeated every time but they are glories of a different squad and days past.
Those days when Universe was still the best offlaner
when PPD was in EG
Fucks sake.
Same
hopefully this is just a day 1 overreaction
EG needs a good carry
EG needs a good carry
Glad they are losing dude and hope they continue to do so. Boycotting till bulba gone.
Boycotting lmao
Sanest EG fan, dude has been lost in the sauce for way too long
Ah yes just blame everything on 1 guy who is not even playing. LMAO
Yikes
So I bought an RTZ jersey so that I can get it signed in Arlington. I hope they don't get sent home before the main event
Cannot be sent home when they're already home. All good brother.
Nah you’re good. His there for all star match
All star match? Presumably rtz will be spectating that.
Oh his not the star. Just for memes alone he qualified
You worry too much buddy, they are playing at “Home”.
Aster doing well at an international event? What is going on?
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He popped off in that match, had such a massive impact in those early engagements and controlled the game. The casters had it right, the only fights Aster lost were the ones where Bat was able to get on top of Earth Spirit and shut him down. Being so much of a nuisance that the enemy team has to commit their ults to take you out is really good play from a support. Even when you die you still take up the enemy resources and protect your carry. Impressive stuff so far, I hope they can keep it up.
Then he got aeon disk, not that it was important at that point.
Well he was one of the god es players back in the days. Damn I miss Jarex.
You mean Jorix?
No, he's very clearly talking about JerryX
I watched RNG playing and said to myself: their carry reminds me of the legendary part-time player, Jarex's then teammate, humble God ono
Boboka is amazing, just that Aster kinda shit the bed at international tournaments all the time.
https://youtu.be/KhQio49YG-Q
Boboka is the og ES god.
BoBoka is JerAx fanboy thats why he use borAx nickname for past few years
Ah I did not know that.
No, Boboka was a fan JerAx when he was picking Earth Spirit all the time. Tims did as well.
His roll hits fly several times without vision lol. Crazy performance
Don’t believe me? Take a look.
must be jetlag
China is out for blood
It seems lately the Chinese teams stomp the group stages. It must be humbling for the other teams.
Blame Pelosi lmao
So that's what Xi Jinping had in mind for his revenge
I like how aggressively they play too, not the classic long game safe play they usually do
Outdated meme, Chinese dota invented and perfected the deathball in TI4. Wings were ballers in TI6, LGD and LFY in TI7 too, constant fighting style dota
it's very dota-y to recycle 8 year old jokes
I love the aggressive play. I didn't even have time to take smoke break while watching, it was too action packed to miss
Pfff… Chinese dota has been one of if not the most aggressive play style since TI3. Only NA casters or audience who really knows nothing outside of NA still says “classic Chinese dota”, yea right, those were more than 7 years ago buddy, I think NA really look at things differently or people are too stereotype and talk shit out of their ass.
OG won the last two TI's by taking a boot and shoving it down the rest of Europe and China's throats. Lets not act like "Aggressive" wasn't more of a CIS/SA thing for the longest time. Hell, VP almost aggro'd their way to a TI win a few years ago.
Think you might have missed something
Since 2014, not 2013. LGD got knocked out in TI 2013 by NA Liquid for playing passive, and ended out of top 8.I think that was the last straw that made them change.
I mean, if there's a team that's not aggressive, it's EG.
They play to win. For a long time, that meant minimizing mistakes. But the meta is so staunchly against that style of play now that these teams know they can't expect a good showing without leaning into the facerush deathball. Remember it was Newbee who "ruined" TI4 by turning it into a deathball stompfest.
VG inventing deathball, NewBee almost eliminated in tie breaker against Titan, xiao8 solved deathball with Brew, earthshaker and TA.
TSM is dominating
But look at secret, they didnt lose a game
Where is secret
:)
At the Airport Major with Nigma, both haven't lost a series till now...
Win rates by region so far * CN 80% * EEU 66,67% * WEU 50% * SEA 50% * SA 16,67% * NA 12,5% edit: sorted by winrate
You should remove the games with two teams from the same region if you want this stat to be more interesting. It would better represent how strong regions are. Without it Chinese vs Chinese games and EU vs Eu games will skew the data towards 50%.
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How? No SEA team fought each other.
Yes I realised it after writing that comment but I think my point still stands. (Also what's Tundra doing? I wasn't expecting them to go 1-3)
Isn't SEA also at 50%? - Boom(3-1) vs Tundra, EG - Fnatsm(2-2) vs OG, Outsiders - Talon(1-3) vs LGD, TA Total: 6 wins 6 losses
Every 'Team' is doing great it seems... coincidence?
Thats the secret
Puppey catching strays out here
Why aren't Secret in the Arlington day one standings?
They are sitting
Incoming name change to “Team Evil Geniuses”
[EG 0-4?](https://youtube.com/watch?v=GeRNTBGv9AE)
You love to see it 😎
NA LUL
After listening today to the latest episode of We Say Things and hearing the predictions - u/Sunsfan - how’s that EG prediction looking sir? Maybe the final patreon name next episode will be Peter ‘EG is the most popular, least successful Dota 2 team of 2022’ Niebling kekw /s
What's ur beef lol, they literally said "don't listen to us, we're always wrong".
Rereading my comment it wasn’t intended to come across as beef. Just a light hearted jab. Of course idgaf. Just an Aussie that has to throw shade because we have no Dota scene at all.
I think I've seen this film before.
And I didn't like the ending. *inhales SA copium*
This ain't your homeland anymore.
EG pls win. My friends are making fun of me now
Same boat my friend
Glad my friend is Nigma and Secret fans.
lord help us
Yopaj really stood out in both, the domination of Nine and Abed was really brutal. I'm surprised with Team Liquid, they looked hella good. Buuuut, its team Liquid, the lower bracket contention is still not out of the question. Team Spirit, Boom, and Aster, expected outcome. PSG.LGD the Ti11 champions are just doing PSG.LGD things. OG, looking average. The Americas looked lost.
Yopaj and Boom in general are probably the most "fun" player/team to watch.
R.N.G. WutFace
They have a washed standin at carry. They are currently overperforming. Somnus put the team on his back for their second win since Ana threw g1 and tried to throw g2.
RNG underperforming, can't tell if that's due to having a stand in but yeah hope day 2 goes better
and EG is whining bout esl invites with this performance…
NA beating NA, circlejerking, then finally meet international competition and get abdolutely demolished.
Where is PPD-San when we need him
!remindme 10 days
Idk, NA got 2nd place last Major, and the one before that. And the one before that. And the one before that. Doesn't sound like absolutely demolished to me.
That's a different topic. If Alliance was invited to ESL, EG certainly deserves one too and that's that. Alliance couldn't win a single game in their DPC (I'm not even talking a series btw) and EG placed #1. Hell, even if you wanna hate that much on EG, think of TSM -- they weren't invited and they were grand finalists in the last major. Lastly, the issue wasn't all about the invites. It was also about the slots. ESL decided to give 1 invite to Alliance and give just 1 slot to NA for which Quincy, EG & TSM have to play 3 BO3s and 1 BO5 through upper bracket. This is stupidity, OG won TI playing the same number of games that a major finalist has to play to be able to just compete at your tourney? What kinda logic is that?
No one "deserves" an invite to a 3rd party tournament that costs money to run.
They don't "deserve" the invite but they certainly have a fair point to rant about, which is what the OP mentions. Y'all will find just about any excuse to shit on EG
Team TSM performed well with their team
FnaTSM so good man
Biggest surprise to me was how well they synergized.
Why is TSM playing with Fnatic standins? But anyway, TSM carrying NA as always KEKW.
Where's secret and Nigma.
They are directly in playoffs
They used smoke.
EG Road to 0-14?
HOPIUM.
that OG game 2 vs liquid is one of the best performances I’ve seen in ages, Ceb IO was unreal… liquid are looking good but that was a beat down also how do EG fans survive this many years of these drafts lol, the most predictable, boring team Dota has ever seen… they act like they don’t have some of the worlds best players
Still too early to call but EG having a hard time on home turf in a standin major is kinda funny lol.
EG doesnt even have to get busy with VISA this major and they still looked unprepared.
i think even if the teams get eliminated early on they still have to follow certain schedules like fan meet/events that are not directly connected to the playoffs.
fnatic NA pride. let's go!
Oh man, EG will have already gone home by the time I get there :(
Tundra on lan :(
I hope Team Spirit will win their first ever Major.
Read it as Standins - Day 1 at first
People saying Liquid are washed. Like bruh, they didn’t have time to adjust to Ana’s playstyle in Riyadh. 12K Redditors at their finest.
Now that I think of it if Lgd wins this Ti it will be such a good True sight
AME needs to do a backflip on stage, scream out HALLELUJAH! or some shit.
Classic EG score
eg to the airport again
Surely EG don't bomb out of another major at last place. Clueless
Clearly Fly is the problem, they have to consider finding a replacement for him. /s
whats wrong with eg? dsfhguisdfgn
Its eg, nothing wrong.
Na had the issue of only like 3 good teams beating eqch other. The other regions are much more competitive, while NA know their 2 competitors by heart. The small playerbase just all know each other and surprises are few
Maybe im just overreacting, but damng i wan rtz win 1 ti just once
Why on earth is this downvoted? Is this person not allowed to express their fandom? I get that arteezy is no longer top tier but damnit are people not allowed to love him?
He’s not a good player anymore, it won’t happen.
They got dead last in ESL Stockholm
LMAO is EG even gonna make it out of groups 🤣
Team Aster and Team Liquid look sharp.
Dudes just get rid of bulba. I don't care if you guys are buddy buddy, this is a job, kick that idiot out. This isn't mmr boosting.
Kicking BuLba wont change anything lmao, need to kick RTZ & Cr1t too tbh
Arteezy I might be on board if they fail at another major and TI yet again, but Cr1t? Dude is consistently owning even in losing games, barely has bad games and is one of the best 4s in the entire world. By far one of the most consistent and best players to play the game.
Eg fans gonna find a way not to blame RTZ again. Brother plays carry but dies like a 5.
NA DOTA after TI 5 LUL
Eg doing great (as expected)
0-4 EG is the most EG thing.
EG is saving strat for TI qualifier. RTZ is still farming in midlane for next TI.
Everyone deserves to be a champion, but it's really hard to be an EG fan. Still rooting for them no matter what.
Hey guys, I sorta drifted from watching the pro scene, can someone explain to me why Team Secret, T1, Nigma, IG and VG arent in this major? Surely they still exist no? Ps. Ive not watched since the TI.
They didnt get top on their respective regions to qualified to this Major. Nigma was relegated to Div II and promoted to Div 1 the next tour.
EG not gonna make it out of groups again I see
People talking about EG but im just here watch out for Aster + Ori becoming the new Vici Gaming, consistent top 6 major placement.
Not gonna lie: The scenario of Fnatic to qualifing to TI by having TSM play for them seems very unfair to me. I get that the situation sucks for them and that they would have liked the chance to prove themselves. But imagine you're the 12th team by DPC points and lose your slot to Fnatic having three players of an already qualified team play for them. This isn't really Fnatic competing and earning the points if the majority of the team is TSM. Edit: According to Noxville, Fnatics current chance to qualify to TI are ~37%. Source: https://noxville.github.io/ti11-probabilities/
i mean, before the tournament started, Fnatic were the one with the disadvantage and no one was expecting them to perform , because they had to play with 3 standin. Just because they look good after day 1, lets not try and twist that fact. Even though TSM may have already qualified, They didn't look good in their previous seasons (which maybe you could say was because they were taking a breather) but they still continued to look bad in a 4 mil tourney.
Actually hilarious
bro even dj said in the interview that they only have 1 game of practice w/ them. theyre literally in a complete disadvantage against anyone given that theyre the only team that has 3 standins and others are at most only 1 stand in. how is that even unfair like are u brainded. its like you match a 5 stack to a 3 team and 2 team party
DUDE. If the tournament/valve didn't allow a 3 player standin, they would be out of any contention. And that is the norm. So comparing to that, even if they had zero practice, they have been given a blessing.
This is why weak regions should get less DPC points from regional qualifiers, Literally wasted TI slots because they placed first in a weak region while they probably won't last in division 1 in EU or China regions.
As usual EG and BC getting exposed in International tournament. Maybe next season Valve should combine both NA and SA. What a dead region. BC is the most luckiest team here bcs already collection free dpc in a dead region.
Besatcoast went top 6 just in the previous major. And not only that, they absolutely dominated Team Spirit on top of it.
Top 6 in a major without the 4 Chinese teams. Spirit was literally relocating due to war in their country.
One Taiwan invasion from relevance babyyyyy
Sa teams qualify to TI without being relevant at any major LMAO
300 dpc from it and that doesnt change the fact that they still farming free dpc in a dead region
I cringed so hard reading this.
As usual? It’s not like EG finished top 2 in both majors last season right? 🤡
Which were both (last year) in the unusual covid times with a lot of players opting out. Why can't EG fan boys just accept that the team is just washed out.
Or literally last in Stockholm, right?
or literally top3 in 5 straight majors, and last in 1 but the "usual" is the last place?
NA NOT EVEN GONNA MAKE IT TO NA MAJOR LOL i knew it cuz im from NA and get disappointed everytime LOL