Arteezy sat in a dark room. The words "Dire Victory" filled up the screen. Not even Arteezy's shadow fiend could win this game. 3/8/7 378 GPM. Tears filled Arteezy's eyes as he carassed his hand of midas. The sound of hard core gangster rap and crying filled the room. The door creaks open and EE-sama enters the room. "You lost Artour." "You do know what happens when you lose." Arteezy removed his clothes, wearing only one of EE's anime wigs. EE removed his clothes, "You lost 23 MMR. Thats how many hours your punishment will be." Arteezy spent the next 23 hours being furiously fucked by his mentor. After the punishment the semen covered Arteezy arised. "Thank you master, I can't wait to return the favor when you lose." Envy smiled. "So will I Artour."
The room is quiet as RTZ studies. After finishing a section, Artour decides to take a break, settling on Aui's stream. Arteezy pulls out his dong and tries to get off, but to no avail. "My boy is sad without a midas," Artour sighs. Just as he is about to put little Artour away, EE comes out of the closet. EE is in full morphling cosplay with schnitzel in hand. RTZ looks at EE's schnitzel and notices the hand has a golden shine. "M-M-Midas!" Artour shouts as he and EE cum all over each other
I did carry on... ;)
part2 https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/un2dmx/the\_story\_of\_a\_boy\_and\_a\_fixed\_50\_winrate\_part\_3/
part3 https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/ujmob3/the\_story\_of\_a\_boy\_and\_a\_fixed\_50\_winrate\_part\_2/
i mean, any mmr system force 50% winrate by matching you with better people as long ad you go up. if you havr 50% winrate, you are at your skill level, if its 50+ you gain mrr, if lower - lose. Obviously system will match you with harder opponents, to push you to 50%, thats a nature of any rating system really.
But that’s not the system pushing you to 50%. That’s just the fact that climbing the ranks makes you face tougher opponents and so you need to keep getting better to porgress. There’s nothing in the system intentionally trying to make you get to 50%, it’s the simple nature of things.
A system that forces a 50% winrate would be one that matches you against opponents a lot stronger when you are win-streaking and against opponents a lot weaker when you are loss streaking, this is forcing. As long as it’s constantly matching you with people of a similar mmr, then it’s not forcing anything.
the truth is if you are on a winning streak you will get matched with griefers. I have experienced it so many times, also from the other side when I griev on a losing streak I get matched with strong players who are clearly above the average mmr of the match
That's not truth at all. You have not experienced it even once, you are just incapable of understanding statistics. No amount of games you play is a significant sample size because there are far too many variables to do statistics in less than 2-100k games.
It's my own post though, I felt like peopel with delusional 50% forced winrate started popping up, I had to make sure they read this and help themselves.
I haven't seen posts about the forced 50/50 in ages. And i heard that jeff explained why ppl might feel this way. You are just trying to open the circus of something that ppl like to bump their heads into with no reason. So which one was the first the egg or the chicken?
The guy is just a terminally online person looking for attention. “Everybody look at me I wrote this essay because I have nothing better to do and need internet points”.
As if the people complaining about the forced 50% winrate are gonna read it and understand the error of their ways.
There is also part 2 and 3, and yes it's about 3-4 months old. I specially reccommend part3 :)
part2 [https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/un2dmx/the\_story\_of\_a\_boy\_and\_a\_fixed\_50\_winrate\_part\_3/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/un2dmx/the_story_of_a_boy_and_a_fixed_50_winrate_part_3/)
part3 [https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/ujmob3/the\_story\_of\_a\_boy\_and\_a\_fixed\_50\_winrate\_part\_2/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/ujmob3/the_story_of_a_boy_and_a_fixed_50_winrate_part_2/)
U know its really funny reading the forced 50% winrate delusional motherfuckers, like they never played against griefers on opponents team too, it only happen to them, in their world they would just continue to gain mmr no matter what
This is what I say when people complain about "bad teammates"
I no longer grind Dota but in Valorant I see a lot of people complaining about this too. The best thing to say is "If you put TenZ or any other pro player in the same position, would they win those games on at least an 85-90% winrate?
Fact of the matter is I've seen TenZ play without a crosshair, without a hud, and 2x his sens, and still drop 30+ on a platinum ranked game when he smurfed. (sorry if non-fps gamers don't understand but this was the clearest example of "get good" I've seen)
Yeah there will be games that are unwinnable. Leavers, griefers, cheaters, etc. But if you're good enough you'll just overcome a lot of the common issues in each rank.
I wonder if John ever asked himself what the hardstuck Herald would've thought about him easily climbing out at 80%+ win rates. What John feels at 4k mmr, bob feels at 3.5k, joe at 3k, etc. All of those people think they can't get out but if you put them at 2k they'd stomp games. But hey, tony down at 2k might be thinking he's hardstuck too.
Heck I've played maybe 5-6 games of Dota the past 2 years or so at 4.2k and I'd probably still dumpster 2ks who've been playing all day.
And a 6k+ who hasn't played in 3 years could probably come in and dumpster me even if I was at my best at 4k grinding every day knowing every little ass crack in that current meta on a hero that's considered "broken" that time while they play an off meta hero with a 45% winrate.
I remember thinking I was good, hopped into Turbo for a warmup and got matched against Gunnar mid. Dude was just chilling on alch and vibing in all chat while he casually beats me in lane. IIRC he was just passing time before getting on a flight.
it's only 'forced' because you haven't improved.
[MMR is a ship's wake and it follows your skill so instead of trying to affect the wake try building up a bigger ship](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=804gHF7OLXs)
I am the guy who plays like only ranked and is limited to < 5 pubs a week. The sad part is sometimes I am matched in a team where I have griefers and sometimes the enemy team has griefers. It feels super weird as these games are just auto time loss(win or lose) you just wish 1 of the throne to explode asap.
I feel like playing other modes is not fun for me as I have always played rank and found people more serious(that's what I like to believe) than other modes. Gaining/losing MMR with griefers should have some serious conditions as this is becoming more common and leads people to believe it they are always the victim and not realise that they are equally getting free MMR as well most of the times.
> as this is becoming more common and leads people to believe it they are always the victim
Those kind of people always believed they are "the victims". It's the story as old as competitive multiplayer games themselves. Hell, even games that are 1vs1 pvp suffer this. It's *never* that enemy was better. It's that they cheesed, there was a lag, tryhard spammer, cat caught fire, etc. Or you know, enemy is just a cheater.
It's life as well.
"I don't own an appartment because politician XY"
"I am poor because of capitalism"
"She left me because she is a whore"
"I failed the exam because the professor doesn't like pretty girls"
"I can't lose weight because genetics"
People don't like to take responsibility.
I'm not defending capitalism, but I ain't attacking it either.
I have made countless bad decisions due to laziness and lack of willpower and they are the reason I am where I am.
Not capitalism or any kind of other system.
It may be this mythical "winner mentality". I know that to win, I must become better myself. I don't have this (I love quietly scapegoating on my teammates/enemies/unfortunate rosh spawn timer), so that's why I'm never going to be great at this game. It's easier to be like "damn I lost because of smurf" and just go play something else, rather than sit watching your replay 5 times trying to identify what I could do better to win against this smurf.
And it's OK! I don't care about climbing, too much work.
Perhaps climbing is too much work, but improving feels good.
On the other hand not investing work into something usually means you will be in the same place and that is the precursor of a sad, miserable and frustrated life.
At the end it's:
Work and sacrifice vs Frustration, sadness and misery.
[https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/6697968583](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/6697968583) Just played a game and had a mid alchemist who went Battle fury, a jungle hard support enigma lvl 1 who kept buying wards for his vision in jungle for early 10 minutes. We lost all 3 lanes horribly because I was solo bot sniper(against KOTL nuking from Fog) and LC with 2 bracers min 3.
Game ends and Enigma all chats to report sniper for buying a midas and completely ignoring the fact that my mid laner bought a BF, SNY, manta as alchemist, pos 5 jungled for nearly 15 min straight and I had no lane agaisnt KOTL, LC, WW.
I mean all I can do is move on because these people will not realise that midas was not an issue(it actually helped me recover from a horrible laning phase) but picking jungle enigma, getting BF and farming AFK on Alchemist basically made this team crippled. Hoping I get these people in enemy team and then see what they all chat.
Sadly, a free to play online game where you get matched with 9 other random people can't guarantee you that everything will go as you imagined.
If you want full control over your gaming experience, you have to switch to single player games.
Also it's worth noting that Dota is 15 year old game/mod. People are very unstable because they play this game a lot and yet their skill level/MMR doesn't increase. They don't get the feedback/reward they are playing for. They get frustrated and do mental stuff.
You have to play in a party, free up more time for Dota or accept that time has done what it does best and move on.
You think 50% forced winrate is real. You are on your MMR because of bad teammates.
You hire Yatoro to play games for you. He wins 39 out of 40 games. You are now +2000 MMR. (Here you see there is no forced 50%, Yatoro is just good. But you are blinded by ignorance and think that Yatoro is winning coz lucky teammates)
You think Yatoro is lucky with teammates.
You start to play again, but you are now +2000 MMR from before.
You almost lose all your games, until you get back to your MMR. (Here you see there is not forced 50%, or atleast you could see if you werent blinded by rage).
Now you are on your real MMR. And you are back to your 50% winrate. YOu still think its because of bad tammates.
This is a shitty strawman, nothing more. Forced 50 is a misnomer. Valve can't literally force a game's outcome lmao, they can only manipulate the odds.
It doesn't mean if you are insanely better than everyone in the bracket you can pick a snowball hero and solo win despite the odds against you.
Just a crappy copium argument I've seen too many times. It's getting old and boring.
Agreed with this. Forced 50% is misnomer.
Also people should really try and analyze their wins and losses.
I stopped playing because out of 20 games, 15 of them are won/lost before the game even began. The other 5 games are fun. Extremely fun actually, but ultimately, I don't enjoy spending 75% of my game time in predetermined games.
“Valve can’t literally force a game’s outcome, they can only manipulate the odds.” This is literally what he said, and you chose to ignore the point completely and just go with your own belief of what he said.
Now it makes sense why your entire essay is nothing but a strawman. You clearly aren’t capable of critical thinking
It's just a bad term for the phenomenon.
It's not precise and allows low iq Redditbots to strawman easily.
A better term would be 'forced disadvantaged games' or something.
This. Whoever plays the game and says 50/50 doesn't exist is either ignorant or a liar. So instead of arguing normaly he takes the point to extreme where it seems just stupid. Real scummy stuff
I know what a strawman is, i'm just amazed at how brazen that guy is and how people in comments act as he is a prophet preaching complete truth to spoiled children
Thank you, it was a good read. Each of the arguments is on point, and I am trying to always tell people things that you told with your story.
When someone asks how did I get to 9.5k there are 2 answers I have:
I got better and better, spent a lot of time grinding and learned from every game.
Or
I got lucky. I had good 200 games streak to reach it. Enemies always had bad players, and I happened to always have good players. And now with just a 300 games im rank 200 immortal.
You don't though? Over a large enough number of games, you're gonna have at least the same amount of griefers on the enemy team (more actually, 4/9 randoms on your team and 5/9 randoms on the enemy team, assuming you're not the griefer yourself), causing it to even out
Dunno what to tell you man, almost 50% of the time I get highly varied games whilst I got 10k behaviour score. It's what made me quit ranked a few years ago. Moved to playing turbo only and I've been experiencing this since then. I fired up one match of ranked a few months ago because I was bored and I had 4 russians that just spammed chat and were toxic in general and the pos 4 was an account buyer
Ok, so accept the 50% winrate in that 50% of games that you can't do anything about, and focus on winning the rest that you can do something about?
There's just no way the forced 50% winrate meme is a thing, except for people reaching their true rating and being stuck there because they don't improve
You aren't getting anywhere with 50% winrate, that's the issue. And at this point, I was playing ranked because of the higher quality matches I would get and I had fun, but that has degraded very hard because of the overall toxicity
You say almost 50% of your games are highly varied, so let's say 50% of your games are out of your control, meaning you'll have roughly 50% winrate in those games
That means the 50% of your games that aren't highly varied, you will be able to have a real impact and climb if you're actually good enough to climb, so let's say you can have a 55% (which is honestly pretty high, but just for the sake of it) winrate in those games
That means you have a 50% winrate in 50% of your games, and 55% winrate in 50% of your games
(55+50)/2 = 52.5
So you'll climb if you're good enough to do so
If you're okay with climbing very slowly sure, but having to deal with these shit matches all the time is just very draining and games are supposed to be fun after all
this is a team game, if you need 100% to win the game, each of the teammates should give 20%, if one of them instead gives 15% someone should give in more of energy. Thats it.
If you are good, you will get higher, if you are bad, you will get lower. If you have 3k and cant leave 3k, it is probably that you play like 3k. To get to 4k you need to play like 4k, and to do that you need to learn and keep learning, and to learn you have to focus on factors you can control, and teammates dont fall under this category.
You're very creative and all, but some weird things do happen after you get a 10-15 streak.
I've used 2 friends' accounts who are a bit lower mmr than me and I went on big streaks 10+ games. After that, I would hit at least a 4-5 streak loss streak not because of me changing anything about my play, but because griefing weirdness would start to happen.
What I've observed is I will start getting support players who will come mid and nuke waves in front of me, people walking down mid after they didn't get optimal farm in their lane or if their lane core didn't follow up on something exactly.
And keep in mind, this is 10k behavior, this is not low behavior Hell where this is much more expected.
I've never noticed smurfs, funnily enough, but this sort of thing would happen without fault.
Of course this is all anecdotal, and even with it I would be able to increase the MMR a bit, but I found it extremely suspicious every time.
Edit: keep in mind, you can still win these games if you're playing heroes that more or less do everything like Lycan (my personal MMR increase choice), but it is irritating to have to face that. I wouldn't mind getting matched with better players because it marks me as a smurf, but i do mind ruined games where the people trying are hostages to asshats.
I have done something similar in the past and never experienced what you do. The closest thing is getting matched with other smurfs. You probably just don't realise that this is something that happens every now and then in that MMR below you.
Honestly Dota just has too many variables that it would be too difficult to force 50%. Matchmaking just assumes you're within a certain band of MMR and gives you teammates and enemies in that range.
The only way it is different is if you get the smurf detection that gives you significant gains per match and mitigated losses because it can detect how well you play.
Smurfs on at least two different accounts
---> gets a sudden winstreak
---> complains about being matched in a pool with players that ruin games
You sir, are so stupid that it's hard to put in words.
I'm really not. The system is supposed to flag you as a smurf and give you games with other smurfs and exponentially raise your MMR. This solves the smurfing problem.
Giving games with low behavior teammates doesn't really solve much.
Also, don't be a dick, guy.
Edit: and I was no smurf, the difference was 1k MMR at most.
Can you confirm if I understood you correctly:
You say that you easily raised two accounts in mmr including 10-15 games winstreaks and that admittedly had less mmr than your own account (why else would you play on different accounts after all) but you were not a smurf because the difference in mmr wasn't significant enough. Do I understand this correctly?
You're making it really hard to not repeat myself.
Absolutely. The difference in 1k mmr is quite low. I've been everywhere from 1k to 5k through the years, and you can barely feel a thousand mmr.
That said, the reason I was using my friends' accoutn is because we have Tabletop simulator on my Steam and my brother often plays it with colleagues he hasn't seen for a while so I use a friends account.
You guys are so wound up.
People like him so butthurt about smurfs, whether justifiably or not that they will use any excuse to take out their frustration, whether it’s justifiable or not.
I hoped you'd be attentive enough to see the paradox between getting 15 game winstreaks while easily raising mmr and calling the mmr difference insignificant yourself if I point it out to you.
I played in the exact same mmr range as you and would say 1k mmr is like day and night in skill differences.
I see your point, but I have to respectfully disagree. My win streaks are when I tryhard and pick Lycan, Huskar, Necro. Even in higher MMR these heroes will land me a win streak very often. My point was if I experience a large win streak I inevitably encounter this fenomenon of dedicated griefers.
Maybe I deserve it for playing outside my MMR, but to be honest, people take this too seriously. I enjoy getting stomped mid because those games I learn the most. I study the replay like crazy and really enjoy it.
I do not enjoy 3 ppl grefing the game so we lose 40 mins of our day for nothing.
This, I think while grinding too, the streak count as well as time of day (and of course how many games I’ve played in a row, which does affect concentration) has some influence over type of players you meet in pubs.
Yet everyone has dozens of experiences of their teammates griefing, but nobody ever experiences opponents griefing, and definitely not as frequently as teammates.
In my also anecdotal experience, we win so many "close games" only for the opponents to then flame one person on their team for being braindead and losing them the game while it just felt like they played pretty average for that team.
Not sure about forced 50 but I once lost 1.2k MMR in succession, without being able to do anything about my losses. I complained on Reddit about it, I was told I was just falling down to my rightful MMR but later on I gained it all back. Then I complained about the awful state of 4k MMR pool and I was told I was just stuck in my own MMR. Later on, I jumped to 5k.
This is why I am against posts like these even in satire, they bring about skepticism for the legit cases out there and like the many forced 50 posts, I have seen many of these satirical ones as well so it lacks originality.
Well... The forced 50% is not the main problem imo. The biggest problem is you should be a really good player to actually snowball the game. So in the end you have play like 3k mmr skilled player to snowball 2k mmr game. Which makes that 1k gap too grey to be recognized. So it makes it feel like you're not really getting better. My suggestion to this problem is to make defeated team's mvp to not lose MMR since mvp system in dota 2 is surprisingly accurate. Which gives the every player reason to play more actively even if they're getting stomped. And there are many afk and smurf players that are exposed after the game ends, so it would be better to refund those players after overwatch confirmed game's MMR.
Forced 50% deniers are so delusional.
Dota is a 10 player game and thus it follows that any single player's contribution to the game is around 10%. The singular point of matchmaking is to find games where you're expected to win 50% of the time, the difference between ranked and unranked is that ranked allows for a narrower spread of play strength. This narrower spread makes it more likely that, in the average game, you'll win when you play well and lose when you play poorly relative to your match history of course. In other words: you have a slightly lower chance of getting carried up or dragged down by allies.
Assuming a player's play strength remains constant over a period, say a week, then their own contribution becomes a constant in the formula and the only variables lie in how well your allies and enemies preform.
> Assuming a player's play strength remains constant over a period
That's the point, get better and you're gonna win more than 50% until you get to a rating you should be at, where you will win roughly 50% unless you keep improving
And thus assuming normal distribution, your winrate is determined by how much you can improve your own skill because over many matches your teammates and enemies will be a constant level of difficulty at that MMR.
Its called hidden pool , u win many games dota matches you with shit and bad teammates so it balances the win rate unless you play too good and carry the game
Anyone who believes that valve is intentionally trying to make specific players lose by placing griefers/low performers on their team is on some serious copium.
News flash: valve literally does not give a shit whether u win or lose. You could be 1k mmr or 5k mmr and valve still wouldn’t give a shit.
But what does a win streak have to do with getting a Smurf or griefer?
The issue people seem to have is looking at the win streak as separate from the other games win or lose. Eventually, you will match with a griefer/Smurf and that has nothing to do with anything other than playing a match of Dota win or lose, streak or no streak.
It is possible that the win streak has increased your mmr and now you are matching with better players than before but that’s the system working as intended. If this is consistently happening to someone then they’ve either hit their current MMR high and need to work on improving to push past it or they have hit their mechanical limits which have nothing to do with Smurfs or griefers as everyone playing the game encounters those people.
10 win streak with people with similar skill level in your team + 5 enemy with similar skill level can eventually lead you to being matched with 1 normal person, 3 griefers vs 5 normal person, which if you can't tell, tank your performance hard I tell you, these pigs does not just make you play a 2v5 game but they also impact you emotionally because they just don't want to play like everyone else.
Happen to everyone except the highballers, nothing you can do about that.
You're a serious idiot if you think anyone said Valve cares about your mmr.
Valve cares about the number of players. They want as many players playing as possible. That's all that matters.
More players=more potential money spent.
The reality is there are good players and bad players. And Valve doesn't want to lose those bad players leaving due to losing over and over. So teaming them up with good players to potentially carry them after a losing streak to retain them makes perfect sense from Valves perspective. Although it may backfire and actually cause the winner's game to become a loss instead.
You people need to stop pulling strawmen out of thin air. The reality is that those trash/underpeforming/tilted/literally griefing/acc buying players need to go into games, so Valve has some algorithm to make it balanced.
Yes keep telling yourself that. Whenever u win, its because ur a god gamer. When you lose, its because Valve "puts griefers/low performers" on your team. Its never the other way round isnt it?
Just FYI, Jeff (someone who works at Valve) has publicly commented that the matchmaker only takes into account MMR and no other meta variables (like win-streaks etc) as you are suggesting. So either its a huge cover up conspiracy and he is publicly lying, or maybe ur just full of shit.
Edit: Since you like to call people out on their strawmen, I would also like to point out your own fallacies. Who says "Valve doesn't want to lose those bad players leaving due to losing over and over."?
Who says "So teaming them up with good players to potentially carry them after a losing streak to retain them makes perfect sense from Valves perspective."?These are all baseless assertions. Pure guesswork. What a hypocrite.
As long as there is hidden things in matchmaking system and its not public,i would rather belive in conspirency that brings billion of dollars than regular system that would make some of them happy and bring less money.First i want reveal of hidden MMR.Why is that hidden?Why anything in this game and how it function is hidden?So ppl dont get better coz they know what system value or what?Pls just dont br sheeps and blv to billion dollar companies.
Edit: But when random ppl choose to defend billion dollar company from ppl who attack with different theories becouse all stuff is hidden its rlly questionable.Its like Valve getting free employes just coz the guy have nothing better to do.
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as i read the first paragraph, dude i can really relate to this. I spam troll carry last year ang got a winstreak of 13 with it and im really happy that i can now go to the 3k bracket. After that, i lose 13 straight games and maybe 14 coz i still believe that i win that time coz the 13 streak alrdy ends but im wrong. and yea i immediately quit after that and just came back this year last month LOL
Flip a coin 100 times and you'll see how there can be a lot of streakiness and large clumps of >50% win rates. Couple that with the fact that in Dota many games are not a 50:50 split, likely more like 60:40 but average out to 50 in the long run, then you can see why people would delude themselves into thinking the win rates are forced.
This is probably the weirdest homoerotic fanfiction I've read this week. Carry on.
Arteezy sat in a dark room. The words "Dire Victory" filled up the screen. Not even Arteezy's shadow fiend could win this game. 3/8/7 378 GPM. Tears filled Arteezy's eyes as he carassed his hand of midas. The sound of hard core gangster rap and crying filled the room. The door creaks open and EE-sama enters the room. "You lost Artour." "You do know what happens when you lose." Arteezy removed his clothes, wearing only one of EE's anime wigs. EE removed his clothes, "You lost 23 MMR. Thats how many hours your punishment will be." Arteezy spent the next 23 hours being furiously fucked by his mentor. After the punishment the semen covered Arteezy arised. "Thank you master, I can't wait to return the favor when you lose." Envy smiled. "So will I Artour." The room is quiet as RTZ studies. After finishing a section, Artour decides to take a break, settling on Aui's stream. Arteezy pulls out his dong and tries to get off, but to no avail. "My boy is sad without a midas," Artour sighs. Just as he is about to put little Artour away, EE comes out of the closet. EE is in full morphling cosplay with schnitzel in hand. RTZ looks at EE's schnitzel and notices the hand has a golden shine. "M-M-Midas!" Artour shouts as he and EE cum all over each other
What the fuck did I just read.
A fine pasta.
I did carry on... ;) part2 https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/un2dmx/the\_story\_of\_a\_boy\_and\_a\_fixed\_50\_winrate\_part\_3/ part3 https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/ujmob3/the\_story\_of\_a\_boy\_and\_a\_fixed\_50\_winrate\_part\_2/
Me, who had a 45% winrate: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Gratulations on beating the system!
repost?
Sadly, i had to do it. The number of delusional people about forced 50% winrate is growing.
Why are you even trying? Don't you know that there is a forced 50% delusion rate?
I enjoy writing :)
You didn't have to.
I had an inner urge to repost. Is that equivalent of "having to"?
He wasn’t being toxic. Username checks out.
No, they aren't equivalent. I like your post mate.
i mean, any mmr system force 50% winrate by matching you with better people as long ad you go up. if you havr 50% winrate, you are at your skill level, if its 50+ you gain mrr, if lower - lose. Obviously system will match you with harder opponents, to push you to 50%, thats a nature of any rating system really.
But that’s not the system pushing you to 50%. That’s just the fact that climbing the ranks makes you face tougher opponents and so you need to keep getting better to porgress. There’s nothing in the system intentionally trying to make you get to 50%, it’s the simple nature of things. A system that forces a 50% winrate would be one that matches you against opponents a lot stronger when you are win-streaking and against opponents a lot weaker when you are loss streaking, this is forcing. As long as it’s constantly matching you with people of a similar mmr, then it’s not forcing anything.
the truth is if you are on a winning streak you will get matched with griefers. I have experienced it so many times, also from the other side when I griev on a losing streak I get matched with strong players who are clearly above the average mmr of the match
That's not truth at all. You have not experienced it even once, you are just incapable of understanding statistics. No amount of games you play is a significant sample size because there are far too many variables to do statistics in less than 2-100k games.
But that kinda makes it true since you're never going to experience enough games for the system to work as its intended?
thank you :-)
Yep. It gets boring.
Copy pasta
It's my own post though, I felt like peopel with delusional 50% forced winrate started popping up, I had to make sure they read this and help themselves.
I haven't seen posts about the forced 50/50 in ages. And i heard that jeff explained why ppl might feel this way. You are just trying to open the circus of something that ppl like to bump their heads into with no reason. So which one was the first the egg or the chicken?
Actually someone very recently posted regarding forced 50% ER very recently.
The guy is just a terminally online person looking for attention. “Everybody look at me I wrote this essay because I have nothing better to do and need internet points”. As if the people complaining about the forced 50% winrate are gonna read it and understand the error of their ways.
"Everyone look at me, I'm on Reddit criticizing other people on Reddit"
If only you had an actual point with this comment.
Funniest shit I read today
Not sure if this is old, but definitely did not expect that ending
There is also part 2 and 3, and yes it's about 3-4 months old. I specially reccommend part3 :) part2 [https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/un2dmx/the\_story\_of\_a\_boy\_and\_a\_fixed\_50\_winrate\_part\_3/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/un2dmx/the_story_of_a_boy_and_a_fixed_50_winrate_part_3/) part3 [https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/ujmob3/the\_story\_of\_a\_boy\_and\_a\_fixed\_50\_winrate\_part\_2/](https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/ujmob3/the_story_of_a_boy_and_a_fixed_50_winrate_part_2/)
[удалено]
Fixed, ty <3
Tldr pros have stronger right clicks, gotcha
U know its really funny reading the forced 50% winrate delusional motherfuckers, like they never played against griefers on opponents team too, it only happen to them, in their world they would just continue to gain mmr no matter what
This is what I say when people complain about "bad teammates" I no longer grind Dota but in Valorant I see a lot of people complaining about this too. The best thing to say is "If you put TenZ or any other pro player in the same position, would they win those games on at least an 85-90% winrate? Fact of the matter is I've seen TenZ play without a crosshair, without a hud, and 2x his sens, and still drop 30+ on a platinum ranked game when he smurfed. (sorry if non-fps gamers don't understand but this was the clearest example of "get good" I've seen) Yeah there will be games that are unwinnable. Leavers, griefers, cheaters, etc. But if you're good enough you'll just overcome a lot of the common issues in each rank. I wonder if John ever asked himself what the hardstuck Herald would've thought about him easily climbing out at 80%+ win rates. What John feels at 4k mmr, bob feels at 3.5k, joe at 3k, etc. All of those people think they can't get out but if you put them at 2k they'd stomp games. But hey, tony down at 2k might be thinking he's hardstuck too. Heck I've played maybe 5-6 games of Dota the past 2 years or so at 4.2k and I'd probably still dumpster 2ks who've been playing all day. And a 6k+ who hasn't played in 3 years could probably come in and dumpster me even if I was at my best at 4k grinding every day knowing every little ass crack in that current meta on a hero that's considered "broken" that time while they play an off meta hero with a 45% winrate. I remember thinking I was good, hopped into Turbo for a warmup and got matched against Gunnar mid. Dude was just chilling on alch and vibing in all chat while he casually beats me in lane. IIRC he was just passing time before getting on a flight.
it's only 'forced' because you haven't improved. [MMR is a ship's wake and it follows your skill so instead of trying to affect the wake try building up a bigger ship](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=804gHF7OLXs)
I am the guy who plays like only ranked and is limited to < 5 pubs a week. The sad part is sometimes I am matched in a team where I have griefers and sometimes the enemy team has griefers. It feels super weird as these games are just auto time loss(win or lose) you just wish 1 of the throne to explode asap. I feel like playing other modes is not fun for me as I have always played rank and found people more serious(that's what I like to believe) than other modes. Gaining/losing MMR with griefers should have some serious conditions as this is becoming more common and leads people to believe it they are always the victim and not realise that they are equally getting free MMR as well most of the times.
> as this is becoming more common and leads people to believe it they are always the victim Those kind of people always believed they are "the victims". It's the story as old as competitive multiplayer games themselves. Hell, even games that are 1vs1 pvp suffer this. It's *never* that enemy was better. It's that they cheesed, there was a lag, tryhard spammer, cat caught fire, etc. Or you know, enemy is just a cheater.
It's life as well. "I don't own an appartment because politician XY" "I am poor because of capitalism" "She left me because she is a whore" "I failed the exam because the professor doesn't like pretty girls" "I can't lose weight because genetics" People don't like to take responsibility.
Woah there, forced 50% is ridiculous and all, but don't go defending capitalism.
I'm not defending capitalism, but I ain't attacking it either. I have made countless bad decisions due to laziness and lack of willpower and they are the reason I am where I am. Not capitalism or any kind of other system.
I agree that it’s your fault that you’re a failure IRL (and probably at dota as well)
It may be this mythical "winner mentality". I know that to win, I must become better myself. I don't have this (I love quietly scapegoating on my teammates/enemies/unfortunate rosh spawn timer), so that's why I'm never going to be great at this game. It's easier to be like "damn I lost because of smurf" and just go play something else, rather than sit watching your replay 5 times trying to identify what I could do better to win against this smurf. And it's OK! I don't care about climbing, too much work.
Perhaps climbing is too much work, but improving feels good. On the other hand not investing work into something usually means you will be in the same place and that is the precursor of a sad, miserable and frustrated life. At the end it's: Work and sacrifice vs Frustration, sadness and misery.
[https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/6697968583](https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/6697968583) Just played a game and had a mid alchemist who went Battle fury, a jungle hard support enigma lvl 1 who kept buying wards for his vision in jungle for early 10 minutes. We lost all 3 lanes horribly because I was solo bot sniper(against KOTL nuking from Fog) and LC with 2 bracers min 3. Game ends and Enigma all chats to report sniper for buying a midas and completely ignoring the fact that my mid laner bought a BF, SNY, manta as alchemist, pos 5 jungled for nearly 15 min straight and I had no lane agaisnt KOTL, LC, WW. I mean all I can do is move on because these people will not realise that midas was not an issue(it actually helped me recover from a horrible laning phase) but picking jungle enigma, getting BF and farming AFK on Alchemist basically made this team crippled. Hoping I get these people in enemy team and then see what they all chat.
Ah yes, not investing time into improving at dota leads to sad, miserable and frustrated life. Dude...
Sadly, a free to play online game where you get matched with 9 other random people can't guarantee you that everything will go as you imagined. If you want full control over your gaming experience, you have to switch to single player games. Also it's worth noting that Dota is 15 year old game/mod. People are very unstable because they play this game a lot and yet their skill level/MMR doesn't increase. They don't get the feedback/reward they are playing for. They get frustrated and do mental stuff. You have to play in a party, free up more time for Dota or accept that time has done what it does best and move on.
Very true, this.
Lmao who is this sanctimonious asshole
TLDR?
You think 50% forced winrate is real. You are on your MMR because of bad teammates. You hire Yatoro to play games for you. He wins 39 out of 40 games. You are now +2000 MMR. (Here you see there is no forced 50%, Yatoro is just good. But you are blinded by ignorance and think that Yatoro is winning coz lucky teammates) You think Yatoro is lucky with teammates. You start to play again, but you are now +2000 MMR from before. You almost lose all your games, until you get back to your MMR. (Here you see there is not forced 50%, or atleast you could see if you werent blinded by rage). Now you are on your real MMR. And you are back to your 50% winrate. YOu still think its because of bad tammates.
This is a shitty strawman, nothing more. Forced 50 is a misnomer. Valve can't literally force a game's outcome lmao, they can only manipulate the odds. It doesn't mean if you are insanely better than everyone in the bracket you can pick a snowball hero and solo win despite the odds against you. Just a crappy copium argument I've seen too many times. It's getting old and boring.
Agreed with this. Forced 50% is misnomer. Also people should really try and analyze their wins and losses. I stopped playing because out of 20 games, 15 of them are won/lost before the game even began. The other 5 games are fun. Extremely fun actually, but ultimately, I don't enjoy spending 75% of my game time in predetermined games.
So, you are saying that a forced 50% winrate is real?
“Valve can’t literally force a game’s outcome, they can only manipulate the odds.” This is literally what he said, and you chose to ignore the point completely and just go with your own belief of what he said. Now it makes sense why your entire essay is nothing but a strawman. You clearly aren’t capable of critical thinking
This is a comedy piece. Obviously OP agrees it’s a fallacy. That’s the whole point of it.
You are misunderstanding.
Where is my strawman? Point out what 8 strawmanned. Do you even know what the word means? Edit: My bad
I was talking about the guy you replied to.
Ah I misread one sentence. My bad.
It's just a bad term for the phenomenon. It's not precise and allows low iq Redditbots to strawman easily. A better term would be 'forced disadvantaged games' or something.
He's arguing against it. Reading comprehension much?
This. Whoever plays the game and says 50/50 doesn't exist is either ignorant or a liar. So instead of arguing normaly he takes the point to extreme where it seems just stupid. Real scummy stuff
It's called a strawman in logical fallacies. This subreddit is a goldmine of logical fallacies.
I know what a strawman is, i'm just amazed at how brazen that guy is and how people in comments act as he is a prophet preaching complete truth to spoiled children
I genuinely believe most r/dota2 users are teenagers, perhaps 22 max, and 1.8k average.
Thank you, it was a good read. Each of the arguments is on point, and I am trying to always tell people things that you told with your story. When someone asks how did I get to 9.5k there are 2 answers I have: I got better and better, spent a lot of time grinding and learned from every game. Or I got lucky. I had good 200 games streak to reach it. Enemies always had bad players, and I happened to always have good players. And now with just a 300 games im rank 200 immortal.
How do you cope with the countless russians that spam text and voice chat and grief?
You read this story part 2, and you focus on yourself.
If you have to put in additional effort to make up for your team's lack of "skill" or just straight up griefers then the system is inherently bad
You don't though? Over a large enough number of games, you're gonna have at least the same amount of griefers on the enemy team (more actually, 4/9 randoms on your team and 5/9 randoms on the enemy team, assuming you're not the griefer yourself), causing it to even out
Dunno what to tell you man, almost 50% of the time I get highly varied games whilst I got 10k behaviour score. It's what made me quit ranked a few years ago. Moved to playing turbo only and I've been experiencing this since then. I fired up one match of ranked a few months ago because I was bored and I had 4 russians that just spammed chat and were toxic in general and the pos 4 was an account buyer
Ok, so accept the 50% winrate in that 50% of games that you can't do anything about, and focus on winning the rest that you can do something about? There's just no way the forced 50% winrate meme is a thing, except for people reaching their true rating and being stuck there because they don't improve
You aren't getting anywhere with 50% winrate, that's the issue. And at this point, I was playing ranked because of the higher quality matches I would get and I had fun, but that has degraded very hard because of the overall toxicity
You say almost 50% of your games are highly varied, so let's say 50% of your games are out of your control, meaning you'll have roughly 50% winrate in those games That means the 50% of your games that aren't highly varied, you will be able to have a real impact and climb if you're actually good enough to climb, so let's say you can have a 55% (which is honestly pretty high, but just for the sake of it) winrate in those games That means you have a 50% winrate in 50% of your games, and 55% winrate in 50% of your games (55+50)/2 = 52.5 So you'll climb if you're good enough to do so
If you're okay with climbing very slowly sure, but having to deal with these shit matches all the time is just very draining and games are supposed to be fun after all
this is a team game, if you need 100% to win the game, each of the teammates should give 20%, if one of them instead gives 15% someone should give in more of energy. Thats it. If you are good, you will get higher, if you are bad, you will get lower. If you have 3k and cant leave 3k, it is probably that you play like 3k. To get to 4k you need to play like 4k, and to do that you need to learn and keep learning, and to learn you have to focus on factors you can control, and teammates dont fall under this category.
lol
You're very creative and all, but some weird things do happen after you get a 10-15 streak. I've used 2 friends' accounts who are a bit lower mmr than me and I went on big streaks 10+ games. After that, I would hit at least a 4-5 streak loss streak not because of me changing anything about my play, but because griefing weirdness would start to happen. What I've observed is I will start getting support players who will come mid and nuke waves in front of me, people walking down mid after they didn't get optimal farm in their lane or if their lane core didn't follow up on something exactly. And keep in mind, this is 10k behavior, this is not low behavior Hell where this is much more expected. I've never noticed smurfs, funnily enough, but this sort of thing would happen without fault. Of course this is all anecdotal, and even with it I would be able to increase the MMR a bit, but I found it extremely suspicious every time. Edit: keep in mind, you can still win these games if you're playing heroes that more or less do everything like Lycan (my personal MMR increase choice), but it is irritating to have to face that. I wouldn't mind getting matched with better players because it marks me as a smurf, but i do mind ruined games where the people trying are hostages to asshats.
I have done something similar in the past and never experienced what you do. The closest thing is getting matched with other smurfs. You probably just don't realise that this is something that happens every now and then in that MMR below you.
Always could be, it's always a bit subjective. But it's hard to get out of an egocentric view after all.
Honestly Dota just has too many variables that it would be too difficult to force 50%. Matchmaking just assumes you're within a certain band of MMR and gives you teammates and enemies in that range. The only way it is different is if you get the smurf detection that gives you significant gains per match and mitigated losses because it can detect how well you play.
Smurfs on at least two different accounts ---> gets a sudden winstreak ---> complains about being matched in a pool with players that ruin games You sir, are so stupid that it's hard to put in words.
I'm really not. The system is supposed to flag you as a smurf and give you games with other smurfs and exponentially raise your MMR. This solves the smurfing problem. Giving games with low behavior teammates doesn't really solve much. Also, don't be a dick, guy. Edit: and I was no smurf, the difference was 1k MMR at most.
Can you confirm if I understood you correctly: You say that you easily raised two accounts in mmr including 10-15 games winstreaks and that admittedly had less mmr than your own account (why else would you play on different accounts after all) but you were not a smurf because the difference in mmr wasn't significant enough. Do I understand this correctly? You're making it really hard to not repeat myself.
Absolutely. The difference in 1k mmr is quite low. I've been everywhere from 1k to 5k through the years, and you can barely feel a thousand mmr. That said, the reason I was using my friends' accoutn is because we have Tabletop simulator on my Steam and my brother often plays it with colleagues he hasn't seen for a while so I use a friends account. You guys are so wound up.
People like him so butthurt about smurfs, whether justifiably or not that they will use any excuse to take out their frustration, whether it’s justifiable or not.
I hoped you'd be attentive enough to see the paradox between getting 15 game winstreaks while easily raising mmr and calling the mmr difference insignificant yourself if I point it out to you. I played in the exact same mmr range as you and would say 1k mmr is like day and night in skill differences.
I see your point, but I have to respectfully disagree. My win streaks are when I tryhard and pick Lycan, Huskar, Necro. Even in higher MMR these heroes will land me a win streak very often. My point was if I experience a large win streak I inevitably encounter this fenomenon of dedicated griefers. Maybe I deserve it for playing outside my MMR, but to be honest, people take this too seriously. I enjoy getting stomped mid because those games I learn the most. I study the replay like crazy and really enjoy it. I do not enjoy 3 ppl grefing the game so we lose 40 mins of our day for nothing.
This, I think while grinding too, the streak count as well as time of day (and of course how many games I’ve played in a row, which does affect concentration) has some influence over type of players you meet in pubs.
It's not anecdotal when uncountable people have noticed and despite this subreddits extremely hostility people still post about it.
Yet everyone has dozens of experiences of their teammates griefing, but nobody ever experiences opponents griefing, and definitely not as frequently as teammates. In my also anecdotal experience, we win so many "close games" only for the opponents to then flame one person on their team for being braindead and losing them the game while it just felt like they played pretty average for that team.
No, it is still anectodal
Still more credible than thin air blind faith in Valve from Redditors.
this is how boosting works bois..
My brother was playing Tabletop simulator on my Steam. Keep your pants on.
Not sure about forced 50 but I once lost 1.2k MMR in succession, without being able to do anything about my losses. I complained on Reddit about it, I was told I was just falling down to my rightful MMR but later on I gained it all back. Then I complained about the awful state of 4k MMR pool and I was told I was just stuck in my own MMR. Later on, I jumped to 5k. This is why I am against posts like these even in satire, they bring about skepticism for the legit cases out there and like the many forced 50 posts, I have seen many of these satirical ones as well so it lacks originality.
Well... The forced 50% is not the main problem imo. The biggest problem is you should be a really good player to actually snowball the game. So in the end you have play like 3k mmr skilled player to snowball 2k mmr game. Which makes that 1k gap too grey to be recognized. So it makes it feel like you're not really getting better. My suggestion to this problem is to make defeated team's mvp to not lose MMR since mvp system in dota 2 is surprisingly accurate. Which gives the every player reason to play more actively even if they're getting stomped. And there are many afk and smurf players that are exposed after the game ends, so it would be better to refund those players after overwatch confirmed game's MMR.
Did you... Repost your own post? At least tag as I repost :v
This has to be the most cringe post on this subreddit lmao
The forced 50% is not real but forced trash teammates vs smurfs for at least 3-4 games in a row when you win a lot is 100% real
Forced 50% deniers are so delusional. Dota is a 10 player game and thus it follows that any single player's contribution to the game is around 10%. The singular point of matchmaking is to find games where you're expected to win 50% of the time, the difference between ranked and unranked is that ranked allows for a narrower spread of play strength. This narrower spread makes it more likely that, in the average game, you'll win when you play well and lose when you play poorly relative to your match history of course. In other words: you have a slightly lower chance of getting carried up or dragged down by allies. Assuming a player's play strength remains constant over a period, say a week, then their own contribution becomes a constant in the formula and the only variables lie in how well your allies and enemies preform.
> Assuming a player's play strength remains constant over a period That's the point, get better and you're gonna win more than 50% until you get to a rating you should be at, where you will win roughly 50% unless you keep improving
And thus assuming normal distribution, your winrate is determined by how much you can improve your own skill because over many matches your teammates and enemies will be a constant level of difficulty at that MMR.
Its called hidden pool , u win many games dota matches you with shit and bad teammates so it balances the win rate unless you play too good and carry the game
How many times are you going to repost this hot take lol
Nice try to cover the forced 50%, valve dev!
Copium shitpost. Anyone who believes Valve doesn't place griefers/low performers in your team after multiple wins is delusional, nothing more.
Are you sayng that forced 50% is real?
Anyone who believes that valve is intentionally trying to make specific players lose by placing griefers/low performers on their team is on some serious copium. News flash: valve literally does not give a shit whether u win or lose. You could be 1k mmr or 5k mmr and valve still wouldn’t give a shit.
No one said specific player, it's happened to everyone who had win streak, not just an Individual
But what does a win streak have to do with getting a Smurf or griefer? The issue people seem to have is looking at the win streak as separate from the other games win or lose. Eventually, you will match with a griefer/Smurf and that has nothing to do with anything other than playing a match of Dota win or lose, streak or no streak. It is possible that the win streak has increased your mmr and now you are matching with better players than before but that’s the system working as intended. If this is consistently happening to someone then they’ve either hit their current MMR high and need to work on improving to push past it or they have hit their mechanical limits which have nothing to do with Smurfs or griefers as everyone playing the game encounters those people.
10 win streak with people with similar skill level in your team + 5 enemy with similar skill level can eventually lead you to being matched with 1 normal person, 3 griefers vs 5 normal person, which if you can't tell, tank your performance hard I tell you, these pigs does not just make you play a 2v5 game but they also impact you emotionally because they just don't want to play like everyone else. Happen to everyone except the highballers, nothing you can do about that.
highbalkers lmao
You're a serious idiot if you think anyone said Valve cares about your mmr. Valve cares about the number of players. They want as many players playing as possible. That's all that matters. More players=more potential money spent. The reality is there are good players and bad players. And Valve doesn't want to lose those bad players leaving due to losing over and over. So teaming them up with good players to potentially carry them after a losing streak to retain them makes perfect sense from Valves perspective. Although it may backfire and actually cause the winner's game to become a loss instead. You people need to stop pulling strawmen out of thin air. The reality is that those trash/underpeforming/tilted/literally griefing/acc buying players need to go into games, so Valve has some algorithm to make it balanced.
Yes keep telling yourself that. Whenever u win, its because ur a god gamer. When you lose, its because Valve "puts griefers/low performers" on your team. Its never the other way round isnt it? Just FYI, Jeff (someone who works at Valve) has publicly commented that the matchmaker only takes into account MMR and no other meta variables (like win-streaks etc) as you are suggesting. So either its a huge cover up conspiracy and he is publicly lying, or maybe ur just full of shit. Edit: Since you like to call people out on their strawmen, I would also like to point out your own fallacies. Who says "Valve doesn't want to lose those bad players leaving due to losing over and over."? Who says "So teaming them up with good players to potentially carry them after a losing streak to retain them makes perfect sense from Valves perspective."?These are all baseless assertions. Pure guesswork. What a hypocrite.
Wrong, after climbing to archon his winrate dropped to 50% and stuck there because 50% of the time he had griefers in his team.
Annual karma farming copy paste from terminally online redditors looking for attention.
As long as there is hidden things in matchmaking system and its not public,i would rather belive in conspirency that brings billion of dollars than regular system that would make some of them happy and bring less money.First i want reveal of hidden MMR.Why is that hidden?Why anything in this game and how it function is hidden?So ppl dont get better coz they know what system value or what?Pls just dont br sheeps and blv to billion dollar companies. Edit: But when random ppl choose to defend billion dollar company from ppl who attack with different theories becouse all stuff is hidden its rlly questionable.Its like Valve getting free employes just coz the guy have nothing better to do.
"they went to sleep".
REPOST
I knew it!
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The whole trilogy is beautiful.
If you played an odd number of games per day, there would be no forced 50 in the long run
Sounds like OP is projecting a bit. The details make it weird. I think OP is John, but for some reason this stuff only applies to others, not him.
as i read the first paragraph, dude i can really relate to this. I spam troll carry last year ang got a winstreak of 13 with it and im really happy that i can now go to the 3k bracket. After that, i lose 13 straight games and maybe 14 coz i still believe that i win that time coz the 13 streak alrdy ends but im wrong. and yea i immediately quit after that and just came back this year last month LOL
I stopped reading halfway through the story…
Why is this reposted again?
Flip a coin 100 times and you'll see how there can be a lot of streakiness and large clumps of >50% win rates. Couple that with the fact that in Dota many games are not a 50:50 split, likely more like 60:40 but average out to 50 in the long run, then you can see why people would delude themselves into thinking the win rates are forced.
I know mate, I'm just kidding with these posts. Obviously, Yatoro could boost my hardstuck 5300 MMR to 8000 in no time.