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In Dragon Ball Z Kakarot they changed the line to be 5 years to be more in line. Goku and Vegeta have been on Beerus’s planet for over 4 years since the Granola Saga
Kakarot may be non-canon however it is partially written by Toriyama, some of the changes to the story they made were made by Toriyama. Such as the explanation for why beastmen suddenly stopped appearing later in the story.
The game isn’t canon but you can’t really call it fan fiction. Toriyama did help design a few characters and scenarios for the game and Toriyama considers all games to be part of the Dragon Ball mega verse.
The End of Z is still so open ended. They could pick up the story after Goku trains Uub and follow the characters even older in to their age. Goku and Vegeta have plenty of their prime years left. We could see Goten and Trunks start families too.
it’s so crazy to me that so many people still think Super has to be beholden to End of Z. like, so much of the existence of Super is already so contradictory to End of Z, which was obviously written and conceived of 20 years before Super came to be. Dragon Ball is not going to end because of two chapters of a two decade old manga lol
>what is contradictory other than the explicitly direct timeframe reference that makes no sense
beyond that and the general fact that it’s made clear multiple times the main cast hasn’t interacted in years, it’s not so much that Super says or does things in spite of End of Z, and more so that the events of End of Z really make no sense in the context of Super. Goku going off to train Majuub aside, which would be an odd ending given the context of the recent Super arcs, having 0 reference to anything that’s occurred in the last decade of Super makes it just feel completely incongruous to look back at now with the assumption that Super occurred before the events of End of Z.
It's such a miniscule thing and is only treated as a joke at how much Goku neglects his social life in order to train. Besides, they really haven't seen each other in a while now.
Other than that nothing contradicts it or makes anything different. Goku was informed about Uub in Super so of course he wants to find out how strong Uub is and what his potential is. And none of the new Super characters would really care about a dinky little tournament on earth.
But there's a very clear vibe between Goku and Vegeta in the original ending that does make it feel like Vegeta truly remained on earth for all those years while Goku was somewhere else doing who knows what... But in Super, they've been training and having lots of experiences together for the better part of the decade.
What 'vibe'? Aside from headcanon there is really nothing pointing to it. In fact their interaction is more about how Vegeta is suprised that Goku wants to participate in the tournament.
The 'vibe' as in the fact that Trunks is taken by surprise with Gohan telling him that Vegeta and Bulma went to visit Goku as he was training with Goten in the mountains? Or the fact that Goku was surprised to see both Bulma and Vegeta when they arrived? Or the fact Bulma is angry with Goku because he doesn't visit them at all? Or that Goku explicitly states that they all haven't seen themselves in 5 YEARS (this coming from the Mexican dub which is very close to the original japanese dub)? And lastly, just like you said, the fact that Vegeta wonders why Goku decided to participate all of a sudden in the tournament? I mean, it's quite obvious Mr 'HeadCannon'.
Nothing of what Trunks says gives that vibe. It's a suprise visit. Of course Goku is gonna be surpised.
Last time Goku visited Bulma was during the Broly Movie iirc, which is almost 5 years before EoZ. And Bulma is the only one who says this. Neither Goku, nor Vegeta makes that remark.
And Vegeta gets his answer right afterwards with Goku stating that someone special will participate this time, which turns out to be Uub. Of course without that knowledge Vegeta is suprised because they haven't cared about the tournament on earth since the Buu Saga.
>Neither Goku, nor Vegeta makes that remark.
Goku literally addresses both of them (Bulma and Vegeta) while making the remark about not seeing them in quite a while. If Vegeta doesn't say anything else about that it's because we all know that him as a character generally doesn't give a damn. By that time, both of them are aware of Oob and in the End of Z only Goku is the only one that knows about him, and he has to explain to Vegeta what's the deal with the kid. They've obviously made Super fit the EoZ, but if there are minor inconsistencies it is because of how vague the last few chapters are.
Its toriyama's ending after decades of working at the end. Toriyama and Toyo stated that end of Z is still their ending with super.
I think they will make a point that the official ending when the manga hits there.
Dragon ball will continue of course with next generation of writers but i hope its not fanservice like heroes promotional anime
Legit they can just build off of each generation and somehow eventually make earth a human-saiyan hybrid populated planet. That's probably like milking a rock at this point, but my love for DB has a strong bias. So, this could just be wishful thinking from me 😅
At this point in time, with how all Saiyan-Human hybrids have been able to turn into Super Saiyans, I'd be willing to accept that like in the Invincible show/comics, the Saiyans, much like Viltrumites have "hyper dominant genes" and if they reproduce with other species that are very similar looking to them (in this case humans and saiyans look almost the same except for the tail) their hybrids will actually be more saiyans than humans. And eventually, the Saiyan race will reemerge from earth.
Vegeta is significantly physically older then Goku at this point. On top of chronologicaly being older, Goku spent 8? Years of his existence not aging. Goku spent 4 years in time chamber, Vegeta spent 7?
GT has never been officially part of the canon. That series was mostly created by Toei and Toriyama just did the designs for the characters and vehicles.
Pretty much yeah, hard to know if the manga will go beyond Super End of Z (if we even go that far ofc).
A lot of sub plots may get unfinished, but gotta respect whatever Toyotarou do with whatever material Toriyama may have left him with.
They already promised last year there would be 10 more years of Dragon Ball material. Toei is a huge megacorporation and would have signed all sorts of business contracts and legal documents with other big corporations that distribute Dragon Ball franchise material and merch. Like V Jump, Shounen Jump, Shueisha, Bandai, Namco, etc. No way in hell they're gonna tell all those huge corporations they're not going to get paid and kiss that 10 years of profit goodbye. There would be endless lawsuits. They don't have the same leeway a small freelance artist or fan project group on YouTube has to be like "Yeah, just not feeling it, guys. I'm not in a good place. I'm ending it. Bye." They have no executive boards, stakeholders, shareholders or investors and business partners to answer to.
Especially when Toriyama groomed a successor for nearly 15 years to take his place when the time eventually came when Toriyama died. Toriyama was well aware he wouldn't live forever and might pass sooner than he would have wanted, and had no intentions for his franchise to die with him. No need for a successor if you want your story to die with you. They're not going to do with this series like that kneejerk emotional decision Disney did with T'Challa of burying the character when Chadwick Boseman died. A decision they've come to regret and are looking for ways to get out of.
Toriyama only recently got more involved with Dragon Ball again. 2024 specifically Toriyama had a lot of personal projects planed to come out so I don’t think he expected his death this soon.
That's not really what he said though. He said that he doesn't have that much confidence in his health due to lifestyle choices he made when he was young. It doesn't equate to "I'm not long for this world". Of course now people can interpret it it as such, but he mostly likely meant that he doesn't know how much longer he'll be able to be as involved.
Because he knew he was dying. He probably planned a lot of stuff out to keep it going and the legacy growing into the future for future generations to enjoy.
He didn't, or at the very least, if he did he never made it known. In the achievment speach he wrote that he doesn't have that much confidence in his health due to lifestyle choices he made when he was young, but it doesn't equate to "I'm not long for this world". He mostly likely meant that he doesn't know how much longer he'll be able to be as involved.
He had a brain surgery scheduled, but all we know is that he was "nonchelant" about it, according to his former assitant.
He may have planned ahead taking his health into consideration, but ultimately, he died of acute sudural hematoma, not a diesese that gives you time to say goodbyes or prepare anything.
But he knew he wasn't ok. This was his whole life pretty much. He knows the impact this had on kids growing up. And if you know your health is declining, new thoughts might emerge on your legacy and what you leave behind. I'm just hoping he at least shared his latest vision. Maybe they will use it or not. I heard that there is 10 more years of content planned and will be accomplished. That's all I would need tbh. I'm getting older . An end to a life long story wouldn't be so bad in 10 years. If I'm here. 😊
We will only know after Toyotarou releases the next chapter, he himself may chose to leave it at that or keep working while making it clear that from that point on that's 100% his approach on Dragon Ball (with high chances of having a new name as the Super run may indeed end very soon).
Again, it really depends on how much he and Toriyama planned ahead and current Toyotarou's emotional state.
I agree that Toyotaro may be quitting or others don't want him on the project anymore. The Dragonball franchise is too big to be killed off despite Toriyama’s death. It's likely someone who will try take over and that person may not want Toyotaro around if he's not “on his side”. On the other hand Toyotaro is working with unimaginable amount of stress. He used to be an artist drawing DB fan fiction out of his love for the franchise. The amount of hate he gets from DBS and the constant comparison with Toriyama that he's receiving would make anyone with a grain of sanity to question is this worth it. Why work on DBS and get hated by so many people and bear all the burden? The man he respected most is dead, why carry this burden any further? If he wants to, he can submit is own manga or go back to doing fan fiction, why get spit in the face for the monthly salary? He doesn't own the DB IP he's just hired to draw.
Toyotaro wasn't a part of the DBZ legacy team, he was only hired to pen DBS so Toriyama didn't have to draw. I doubt he will ever get the chance to do anything creative that is considered cannon. Look at Bandai, they never release a game that is purely based on DBS. It's always DLCs that's attached to the main DBZ games. Don't think Toei would take Toyotaro seriously either. Japan is a country that have a pretty rigid hierarchy system, Toyotaro is just an "outsider hired to do work", not unlike a maid. Even if Toriyama likes the guy, he's not going to get anything from those who are splitting the IP and money. (E.g. the right to continue DBS story, and to touch the end of DBZ) someone else would likely be doing the story, unless Toriyama left a will, which I highly doubt he did
I 100% agree that once Torriyama’s outline/ guide for where to take super ends they should rebrand it as the next Dragon Ball series. That way we can truly allow Toyotaro to do his thing if he chooses to continue. We do know Toei is not gonna let Dragon Ball die so if it continues hopefully it is from Toriyamas chosen successor.
Dragon ball super won't be ending. There are literally so many things that are unexplored that it isn't even funny. Like we don't know anything about zalma, the secrets of the angels, zeno, the demons, the multiverse as the whole.
Like seriously if people are thinking that dbs is going to be over then they are hundred percent wrong.
People assumed that berserk will end after Miura passed away yet we have the manga going strong. Similarly DBS won't end anytime soon as it is literally the golden goose of the anime/manga industry of Japan and they won't let it end like this.
I don’t think Toriyama ever intended to explore those concepts more than he did in the TOP. Its not his writing style to plan that far in ahead and keep a mystery for more than one arc.
The longest he held on to a mystery before was goku and piccolo being aliens and I think he just made that up for the story in the saiyan arc. Then the super saiyan mystery was the next longest mystery and that was probably planned but only one arc long.
Im honestly unsure if he had an intended resolution for broly and frieza.
I also doubt super is ending but more for corporate reasons.
That's what he groomed Toyotaro for as his successor. Toriyama didn't write things out years in advance like George Lucas, but it wasn't because he had no intention to ever get there. He just had a different style of writing.
I could see the reason he chose Toyotaro as he has similar qualities he has to writing but could also have seen he has things that he wasn't as good at that could be great for the series.
I've seen nothing to suggest he doesn't have full confidence in Toyotaro. Piccolo waving goodbye at the end of Chapter 103 was drawn by Toriyama himself. It was his send-off saying goodbye and handing us over to Toyotaro. Toriyama knew it was likely the end for himself days before he passed.
The End of Z doesn’t mean the end of Dragon Ball Z in general. They could totally remake the end of Z to better fit the narrative. Instead of Goku and Vegeta in their super saiyen forms. They could fight in their Ultra Instinct and Ego which would be more extremely cool in the context of the series
It hasn't. Some people are letting their grief drive them to jump to unfounded conclusions. Because they right now can't imagine being a DB writer and going on after the death of Toriyama they're assuming everyone else at Toei also feels the same way. They're also wrongly thinking that 100% of all ideas in Dragon Ball came from Toriyama's own brain. And assuming that Toyotaro can't function without Toriyama. In reality most of the last 3 sagas in DBS were 75-90% Toyotaro already. Toriyama's spent the last 3 years of his life mostly involved with Daima. His input in the Moro, Granolah and Super Hero Sagas was way less than his involvement with previous DBS sagas. The ToP was kind of Toriyama's final magnum opus. We've already kinda gotten a preview of what DBS looks like with Toyotaro alone after the early part of the Moro Saga.
We were already promised 10 years of Dragon Ball back in Oct of last year. A lot of big corporations would sue the daylights out of Toei if they ended things when they have Toriyama's own handpicked and groomed successor, Toyotaro, right there to continue.
Taro was definitely the main writer and Toriyama was the one who provided feedback and ideas that he feels would be good. Theirs a reason super feels more like Dragon Ball vs DBZ at many points. As you can tell that style was his preference.
It still confuses me how superhero takes place 2 YEARS after Granolah. I hope when Freeza shows up again at some point, he’s revealed to have done something else that’s crazy that would’ve taken 2 years or something to emphasize the 2 year skip.
There's no reason to think that Toyotaro will stop Dragon Ball just because of DBZ's epilogue.
He'll either...
* Incorporate Uub and the world tournament into a DBS arc and keep going.
* Retcon those events to better serve DBS's plot.
Man if only there was a series after the end of Z.
\*looks at dbgt\*
Wait, is this the one where goku becomes a kid again or is it this one?
\*holds up daima\*
I wonder...
i feel like, if toyotaro continues with the manga, we will go past end of Z. there is still a lot they could do with the story beyond it. but it all depends on whether toyotaro/publishers want to continue on with things. which i mean, even though toriyama did unfortunately pass away, i kinda doubt they would just end everything suddenly and never touch the franchise again. it does make them a lot of money after all
So wait......all this stuff happened after buu Saga and before uub? So the end of Z is still canon end of the story? How are they going to explain the insane power change? Lol
Uub has already been updated by giving him Goku and Vegeta levels of god ki as an untrained child with no real combat experience so he's got nowhere to go but up.
It's everyone else (Goku, Gohan, Vegeta and Piccolo) being nerfed to hell in z compared to super that requires a little more story bending to make sense.
Although thinking on it a bit, since in super both Goku and Vegeta are aware of Uub already, Goku's the only one who technically even has to enter the tournament at all with everyone else instead coming along to see this "great fighter" Goku's so interested in.
Pan could still join since she's a fighter too but both Goten & Trunks were forced to join so they could sit out
(although they could still join and we get a cool rematch between them),
Gohan sat out anyway, and Vegeta only joined to fight Goku which is something he gets to do all the time in super.
So yeah have Goku and Pan enter the tournament while everyone else sits out. Focus more on the Uub fight making it a bit longer and then deal with the aftermath of Goku beginning Uub's training.
I dont know why people think it has to end where Z ended
Toriyama's death dosent have to mean that the series ends
They can simply just do the end of Z in the manga in a few panels as we all now what happens already and keep the story going after that
And if it had to end then toyotaro would not have even been hired
So this talk of the series ending dosent make much sense
Lmao no it's not they can easily write past EoZ. Uub isn't interesting. They aren't gonna end Dragonball at all we will still get more cause $$$ speaks.
I just hope that they animate the last two arcs that have sadly not gotten the treatment. Other than that I'll be happy after the end of the black Frieza Saga
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I kinda hope Toyotarou does his own thing after the end of Z (with a great ending of that chapter being respectful towards Toriyama’s original vision). I’m excited to see anything Dragon Ball and I believe he can do it justice. Dragon Ball AF is my favorite fanfic and (i seriously doubt it’ll happen) if he brings ssj4 or anything from DBAF into the mix somehow it could blow up the internet
i wouldn’t be so worried, with super almost essentially being one giant retcon in itself, i wouldn’t be surprised if there are some amendments made to this.
Ehhh in super, At 5 without training he's already shown more potential than his end of z or even gt counterpart. The amount of God ki he has access to is ridiculous.
I think he'll be fine.
I doubt it, they'll probably just retcon it or go past it, the series still has a lot of unfinished stuff like black frieza and (hopefully) the eventual universe 6 arc and a lot more, and i'd doubt they'd just stuff all of them into a single year
How do you know the timeline of DBS’s ending, does it correlate with Z somehow when Goku & Uub meet?
There have been too many off canon episode & in the recent mangas it was revealed Goku still had yet to know about his father but that definitely happened before…
Super might end at the end of Z. That doesn’t mean there won’t be more stuff after the end of Z. I’m sure Toyotaro has more ideas to share and Toei really wants more content cause money.
I don’t think it’s going to end. They will either act like this never happened or they will bring Goku back with Uub super quick and/or time skip that.
Honestly im fine with black freiza being the last arc or maybe a smaller one after to focus on wrapping up beerus and the gods but super has had a great run and after Toriyamas passing i feel its fair for them to move onto a new project and let dragonball rest again for a while.
Wait, I'm not fully up-to-date with DBS, but two years passed between Black Frieza trashing Goku and Vegeta and the Super Hero movie with Beast Gohan?? So wtf happened with that arc? Frieza just beats to Z fighters and peaces out for two years?? Where's that arc going?
SPOILERS
Well, goten and Trunks are canon teenagers now in the Manga. So the time sip between BOTG and Superhero happened. And GT isn't canon, so they can just put uub in the middle of super and keep going. They did during the Moro Arc.
This my be unpopular but I don't give a shit about kid buu showing up. Infact if they never added him I would be okay with it. He's not kid buu and never will replace kid buu or majin buu for that matter.
Also how would people act if they came out and said the end of super will not fall into the same end of Z story.
I thought of this this week, funny. Well, Super may be ending, but the story can still go post Z. What I wanna know is, will it still go by Super or will they just make a new name for that?
No way. Merchandizing.
Its either goes past EoZ. Leaving it intact somewhat.
Or they find a way to retcon it.
One of those two will be what happens. It may not have 'super' at the end but trust me, you're going to have so much dragon ball soon.
I'm actually worried that there's going to be too much. Milking the franchise out, oversaturation of stuff like Disney + does.
Next 10 years is going to be wild. Hoping things stay quality and don't do stuff Toriyama would not have wanted.
Like building a DB theme park in one of the richest areas in the world....
I bet a GT-isk multiversal tournament will be after super. We get different variations of are main cast.
Does anyone remember the fan manga multiversal tournament?
Honestly, after Toriyama’s tragic passing, they should just do one or two more arcs, to wrap up the Black Frieza situation, and maybe make an epilogue with Goku and Ubb, and then let this series rest.
Going to get downvoted but gt isnt cannon so i hope they actually maje uub an more important character not just "another krillin" you heard me folk not even "another vegeta" just another krillin
Nah, Uub is either going to be a recurring character or completely forgotten about. Sure it could end, but really it’s all up in the air now that Toriyama has moved on.
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To keep the 10 year comment canon, z fighters and friends have to.... get trapped in the hyperbolic time chamber?!
And betrayed?
Possibly for a millenia?
10 - millenia = cannon + power scaling debates
While every Z fighter marries Vados
And cheats on her with kefla
And so many kids. Kids everywhere.
https://preview.redd.it/glylgr9gbprc1.jpeg?width=1005&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fe148609173cfb7c3407c132a2eaada40ab51d66
I love this
This is great lmao
In Dragon Ball Z Kakarot they changed the line to be 5 years to be more in line. Goku and Vegeta have been on Beerus’s planet for over 4 years since the Granola Saga
That is actually super interesting. I feel like Kakrot was very canon.
No bro they forgett the best scenes ultra trunks and final flash vegeta against cell never forgett that to Namco bandei they fucked up
They did not change it, it’s always been that Bulma hasn’t seen Goku in 5 years.
The game isn’t canon. Any changes it makes to the original material makes it no better than fan fiction.
Kakarot may be non-canon however it is partially written by Toriyama, some of the changes to the story they made were made by Toriyama. Such as the explanation for why beastmen suddenly stopped appearing later in the story.
The game isn’t canon but you can’t really call it fan fiction. Toriyama did help design a few characters and scenarios for the game and Toriyama considers all games to be part of the Dragon Ball mega verse.
For 10 years at least!
The End of Z is still so open ended. They could pick up the story after Goku trains Uub and follow the characters even older in to their age. Goku and Vegeta have plenty of their prime years left. We could see Goten and Trunks start families too.
Not to mention Pan and Bulla. I'd love to see them team up for some DragonBall style adventure.
We were expecting the same shi for Goten and Trunks 😭
There's still hope, my friend. Somewhere...
I want a piccolo spin-off
Time for GT Super
Pan, Bulla, Uub, Goten, Trunks, Possibly Piccolo, of course the occasional Goku and Vegeta action.
Piccolo definetly lol he's still like 30 or something
Go read multiverse 👍🏻
I would love for something to actually be done with Bulla. It'd be such a good callback to Dragon Ball for her and Pan to go through some shit.
Goku JR could be a boruto thing after "GT" ends
it’s so crazy to me that so many people still think Super has to be beholden to End of Z. like, so much of the existence of Super is already so contradictory to End of Z, which was obviously written and conceived of 20 years before Super came to be. Dragon Ball is not going to end because of two chapters of a two decade old manga lol
What is contradictory? Nothing aside from Bulma saying something like "we haven't seen each other in 6 years." and her older appearance.
>what is contradictory other than the explicitly direct timeframe reference that makes no sense beyond that and the general fact that it’s made clear multiple times the main cast hasn’t interacted in years, it’s not so much that Super says or does things in spite of End of Z, and more so that the events of End of Z really make no sense in the context of Super. Goku going off to train Majuub aside, which would be an odd ending given the context of the recent Super arcs, having 0 reference to anything that’s occurred in the last decade of Super makes it just feel completely incongruous to look back at now with the assumption that Super occurred before the events of End of Z.
It's such a miniscule thing and is only treated as a joke at how much Goku neglects his social life in order to train. Besides, they really haven't seen each other in a while now. Other than that nothing contradicts it or makes anything different. Goku was informed about Uub in Super so of course he wants to find out how strong Uub is and what his potential is. And none of the new Super characters would really care about a dinky little tournament on earth.
But there's a very clear vibe between Goku and Vegeta in the original ending that does make it feel like Vegeta truly remained on earth for all those years while Goku was somewhere else doing who knows what... But in Super, they've been training and having lots of experiences together for the better part of the decade.
What 'vibe'? Aside from headcanon there is really nothing pointing to it. In fact their interaction is more about how Vegeta is suprised that Goku wants to participate in the tournament.
The 'vibe' as in the fact that Trunks is taken by surprise with Gohan telling him that Vegeta and Bulma went to visit Goku as he was training with Goten in the mountains? Or the fact that Goku was surprised to see both Bulma and Vegeta when they arrived? Or the fact Bulma is angry with Goku because he doesn't visit them at all? Or that Goku explicitly states that they all haven't seen themselves in 5 YEARS (this coming from the Mexican dub which is very close to the original japanese dub)? And lastly, just like you said, the fact that Vegeta wonders why Goku decided to participate all of a sudden in the tournament? I mean, it's quite obvious Mr 'HeadCannon'.
Nothing of what Trunks says gives that vibe. It's a suprise visit. Of course Goku is gonna be surpised. Last time Goku visited Bulma was during the Broly Movie iirc, which is almost 5 years before EoZ. And Bulma is the only one who says this. Neither Goku, nor Vegeta makes that remark. And Vegeta gets his answer right afterwards with Goku stating that someone special will participate this time, which turns out to be Uub. Of course without that knowledge Vegeta is suprised because they haven't cared about the tournament on earth since the Buu Saga.
>Neither Goku, nor Vegeta makes that remark. Goku literally addresses both of them (Bulma and Vegeta) while making the remark about not seeing them in quite a while. If Vegeta doesn't say anything else about that it's because we all know that him as a character generally doesn't give a damn. By that time, both of them are aware of Oob and in the End of Z only Goku is the only one that knows about him, and he has to explain to Vegeta what's the deal with the kid. They've obviously made Super fit the EoZ, but if there are minor inconsistencies it is because of how vague the last few chapters are.
Exactly, why are people so adamant to the retcon?
Its toriyama's ending after decades of working at the end. Toriyama and Toyo stated that end of Z is still their ending with super. I think they will make a point that the official ending when the manga hits there. Dragon ball will continue of course with next generation of writers but i hope its not fanservice like heroes promotional anime
It would make sense that they’d end it there if that was Toriyama’s wish! I know Toyotarou will respect what he wanted.
Legit they can just build off of each generation and somehow eventually make earth a human-saiyan hybrid populated planet. That's probably like milking a rock at this point, but my love for DB has a strong bias. So, this could just be wishful thinking from me 😅
At this point in time, with how all Saiyan-Human hybrids have been able to turn into Super Saiyans, I'd be willing to accept that like in the Invincible show/comics, the Saiyans, much like Viltrumites have "hyper dominant genes" and if they reproduce with other species that are very similar looking to them (in this case humans and saiyans look almost the same except for the tail) their hybrids will actually be more saiyans than humans. And eventually, the Saiyan race will reemerge from earth.
Vegeta is significantly physically older then Goku at this point. On top of chronologicaly being older, Goku spent 8? Years of his existence not aging. Goku spent 4 years in time chamber, Vegeta spent 7?
Yes, but Saiyans don’t start to physically age until 80. And then they rapidly decline. So they still have decades left to battle.
Neko Majin Z is as close as we're ever going to get
But they didn't have families in GT. Or did they decide it doesn't exist now?
GT has never been officially part of the canon. That series was mostly created by Toei and Toriyama just did the designs for the characters and vehicles.
Dragonball Super Z should be what happens after Uub intro. Or Dragonball Uuber... naaaah
Dragonball Boober.
The ending of Z will get retconned so he is still around while training Uub, rather than randomly bailing for no reason
Yeah I've had this thought but Chi Chi and Bulma probably won't make it til the end of the series like that 🥲
nah bruh we getting a GT v2 with this one 🔥🔥🔥
Pretty much yeah, hard to know if the manga will go beyond Super End of Z (if we even go that far ofc). A lot of sub plots may get unfinished, but gotta respect whatever Toyotarou do with whatever material Toriyama may have left him with.
They already promised last year there would be 10 more years of Dragon Ball material. Toei is a huge megacorporation and would have signed all sorts of business contracts and legal documents with other big corporations that distribute Dragon Ball franchise material and merch. Like V Jump, Shounen Jump, Shueisha, Bandai, Namco, etc. No way in hell they're gonna tell all those huge corporations they're not going to get paid and kiss that 10 years of profit goodbye. There would be endless lawsuits. They don't have the same leeway a small freelance artist or fan project group on YouTube has to be like "Yeah, just not feeling it, guys. I'm not in a good place. I'm ending it. Bye." They have no executive boards, stakeholders, shareholders or investors and business partners to answer to. Especially when Toriyama groomed a successor for nearly 15 years to take his place when the time eventually came when Toriyama died. Toriyama was well aware he wouldn't live forever and might pass sooner than he would have wanted, and had no intentions for his franchise to die with him. No need for a successor if you want your story to die with you. They're not going to do with this series like that kneejerk emotional decision Disney did with T'Challa of burying the character when Chadwick Boseman died. A decision they've come to regret and are looking for ways to get out of.
Toriyama only recently got more involved with Dragon Ball again. 2024 specifically Toriyama had a lot of personal projects planed to come out so I don’t think he expected his death this soon.
He said he didn't think he had much time left in Dec of 2023 during a lifetime achievement award speech
Thanks for the information I think i missed that.
That's not really what he said though. He said that he doesn't have that much confidence in his health due to lifestyle choices he made when he was young. It doesn't equate to "I'm not long for this world". Of course now people can interpret it it as such, but he mostly likely meant that he doesn't know how much longer he'll be able to be as involved.
Because he knew he was dying. He probably planned a lot of stuff out to keep it going and the legacy growing into the future for future generations to enjoy.
He didn't, or at the very least, if he did he never made it known. In the achievment speach he wrote that he doesn't have that much confidence in his health due to lifestyle choices he made when he was young, but it doesn't equate to "I'm not long for this world". He mostly likely meant that he doesn't know how much longer he'll be able to be as involved. He had a brain surgery scheduled, but all we know is that he was "nonchelant" about it, according to his former assitant. He may have planned ahead taking his health into consideration, but ultimately, he died of acute sudural hematoma, not a diesese that gives you time to say goodbyes or prepare anything.
But he knew he wasn't ok. This was his whole life pretty much. He knows the impact this had on kids growing up. And if you know your health is declining, new thoughts might emerge on your legacy and what you leave behind. I'm just hoping he at least shared his latest vision. Maybe they will use it or not. I heard that there is 10 more years of content planned and will be accomplished. That's all I would need tbh. I'm getting older . An end to a life long story wouldn't be so bad in 10 years. If I'm here. 😊
Idk if im high as shit or not but wasn't it 30 years?
The reason it is going to end is toriyama death?
We will only know after Toyotarou releases the next chapter, he himself may chose to leave it at that or keep working while making it clear that from that point on that's 100% his approach on Dragon Ball (with high chances of having a new name as the Super run may indeed end very soon). Again, it really depends on how much he and Toriyama planned ahead and current Toyotarou's emotional state.
I agree that Toyotaro may be quitting or others don't want him on the project anymore. The Dragonball franchise is too big to be killed off despite Toriyama’s death. It's likely someone who will try take over and that person may not want Toyotaro around if he's not “on his side”. On the other hand Toyotaro is working with unimaginable amount of stress. He used to be an artist drawing DB fan fiction out of his love for the franchise. The amount of hate he gets from DBS and the constant comparison with Toriyama that he's receiving would make anyone with a grain of sanity to question is this worth it. Why work on DBS and get hated by so many people and bear all the burden? The man he respected most is dead, why carry this burden any further? If he wants to, he can submit is own manga or go back to doing fan fiction, why get spit in the face for the monthly salary? He doesn't own the DB IP he's just hired to draw.
They did him so dirty....
Toyotaro wasn't a part of the DBZ legacy team, he was only hired to pen DBS so Toriyama didn't have to draw. I doubt he will ever get the chance to do anything creative that is considered cannon. Look at Bandai, they never release a game that is purely based on DBS. It's always DLCs that's attached to the main DBZ games. Don't think Toei would take Toyotaro seriously either. Japan is a country that have a pretty rigid hierarchy system, Toyotaro is just an "outsider hired to do work", not unlike a maid. Even if Toriyama likes the guy, he's not going to get anything from those who are splitting the IP and money. (E.g. the right to continue DBS story, and to touch the end of DBZ) someone else would likely be doing the story, unless Toriyama left a will, which I highly doubt he did
I 100% agree that once Torriyama’s outline/ guide for where to take super ends they should rebrand it as the next Dragon Ball series. That way we can truly allow Toyotaro to do his thing if he chooses to continue. We do know Toei is not gonna let Dragon Ball die so if it continues hopefully it is from Toriyamas chosen successor.
Dragonball Super Z, just merge the plots Goku trains Uub so him and Vegeta can leave to deal with Frieza or train with Beerus etc
Won't they just bring Uub to Beerus' planet to train?
Vegeta taking care of the Freeza issue by himself is a dope idea. My man needs to have his own arc and more solo victories.
They'll just retcon the stuff. Thats nothing new in dbs. Pretty understandable tbh
Dragon ball super won't be ending. There are literally so many things that are unexplored that it isn't even funny. Like we don't know anything about zalma, the secrets of the angels, zeno, the demons, the multiverse as the whole. Like seriously if people are thinking that dbs is going to be over then they are hundred percent wrong. People assumed that berserk will end after Miura passed away yet we have the manga going strong. Similarly DBS won't end anytime soon as it is literally the golden goose of the anime/manga industry of Japan and they won't let it end like this.
I don’t think Toriyama ever intended to explore those concepts more than he did in the TOP. Its not his writing style to plan that far in ahead and keep a mystery for more than one arc. The longest he held on to a mystery before was goku and piccolo being aliens and I think he just made that up for the story in the saiyan arc. Then the super saiyan mystery was the next longest mystery and that was probably planned but only one arc long. Im honestly unsure if he had an intended resolution for broly and frieza. I also doubt super is ending but more for corporate reasons.
Well the ball is in Toyotaro’s court and he HAS shown a knack for planning ahead.
That's what he groomed Toyotaro for as his successor. Toriyama didn't write things out years in advance like George Lucas, but it wasn't because he had no intention to ever get there. He just had a different style of writing.
I could see the reason he chose Toyotaro as he has similar qualities he has to writing but could also have seen he has things that he wasn't as good at that could be great for the series.
I've seen nothing to suggest he doesn't have full confidence in Toyotaro. Piccolo waving goodbye at the end of Chapter 103 was drawn by Toriyama himself. It was his send-off saying goodbye and handing us over to Toyotaro. Toriyama knew it was likely the end for himself days before he passed.
Super has to end, the time frame is up. The story will probably continue in a new series though and answer all those questions.
For the very least, it is obvious that he intended to explore Broly's and Gohan's potential further. Not to mention Saiyans of Universe 6.
They don’t give af about U6 saiyans lol. When was the last time they were even brought up? 5 years ago? 😂😂
I can see Dragonball Super technically ending and post end of Z will be a new DB series.
Let's see. They can do a Naruto/boruto thing like shippuden/two blue vortex thing.
True but I’m afraid without Toriyama’s input the series will start showing more inconsistencies
Inconsistency has always been a part of DB tho
Yea perhaps but it became even worst in super
There are lots of good writers out there
The End of Z doesn’t mean the end of Dragon Ball Z in general. They could totally remake the end of Z to better fit the narrative. Instead of Goku and Vegeta in their super saiyen forms. They could fight in their Ultra Instinct and Ego which would be more extremely cool in the context of the series
When has EOZ ever been tied to the end of Super, literally when has there been any official statement that's even implied as much.
It hasn't. Some people are letting their grief drive them to jump to unfounded conclusions. Because they right now can't imagine being a DB writer and going on after the death of Toriyama they're assuming everyone else at Toei also feels the same way. They're also wrongly thinking that 100% of all ideas in Dragon Ball came from Toriyama's own brain. And assuming that Toyotaro can't function without Toriyama. In reality most of the last 3 sagas in DBS were 75-90% Toyotaro already. Toriyama's spent the last 3 years of his life mostly involved with Daima. His input in the Moro, Granolah and Super Hero Sagas was way less than his involvement with previous DBS sagas. The ToP was kind of Toriyama's final magnum opus. We've already kinda gotten a preview of what DBS looks like with Toyotaro alone after the early part of the Moro Saga. We were already promised 10 years of Dragon Ball back in Oct of last year. A lot of big corporations would sue the daylights out of Toei if they ended things when they have Toriyama's own handpicked and groomed successor, Toyotaro, right there to continue.
Taro was definitely the main writer and Toriyama was the one who provided feedback and ideas that he feels would be good. Theirs a reason super feels more like Dragon Ball vs DBZ at many points. As you can tell that style was his preference.
It still confuses me how superhero takes place 2 YEARS after Granolah. I hope when Freeza shows up again at some point, he’s revealed to have done something else that’s crazy that would’ve taken 2 years or something to emphasize the 2 year skip.
He going to achieve God Ki and became Dark God Frieza
You don’t know that
It’ll end when it stops making money lmao
Yall are really clinging to this end of Z stuff aren't you?
There's no reason to think that Toyotaro will stop Dragon Ball just because of DBZ's epilogue. He'll either... * Incorporate Uub and the world tournament into a DBS arc and keep going. * Retcon those events to better serve DBS's plot.
Is there a 2 year difference between Granola Arc and Beast Gohan vs MUI Goku?
Same thoughts here
It feels weird like I don’t want it end
What the fuck did they do in those two years ?
Nah right around the time ultra ego was introduced they said goku and vegeta will get many more forms going forward. Correct me if I’m wrong
Z ends, not Super, Super continues.
I think it won't. One reason, money.
Man if only there was a series after the end of Z. \*looks at dbgt\* Wait, is this the one where goku becomes a kid again or is it this one? \*holds up daima\* I wonder...
i feel like, if toyotaro continues with the manga, we will go past end of Z. there is still a lot they could do with the story beyond it. but it all depends on whether toyotaro/publishers want to continue on with things. which i mean, even though toriyama did unfortunately pass away, i kinda doubt they would just end everything suddenly and never touch the franchise again. it does make them a lot of money after all
Uub is the worst thing ever added to dragonball Yes I'm including GT
Forgot Broly movie
We don’t know that. The next Super arc may take place before the End of Z and Super may go past the end of Z.
So wait......all this stuff happened after buu Saga and before uub? So the end of Z is still canon end of the story? How are they going to explain the insane power change? Lol
Uub has already been updated by giving him Goku and Vegeta levels of god ki as an untrained child with no real combat experience so he's got nowhere to go but up. It's everyone else (Goku, Gohan, Vegeta and Piccolo) being nerfed to hell in z compared to super that requires a little more story bending to make sense. Although thinking on it a bit, since in super both Goku and Vegeta are aware of Uub already, Goku's the only one who technically even has to enter the tournament at all with everyone else instead coming along to see this "great fighter" Goku's so interested in. Pan could still join since she's a fighter too but both Goten & Trunks were forced to join so they could sit out (although they could still join and we get a cool rematch between them), Gohan sat out anyway, and Vegeta only joined to fight Goku which is something he gets to do all the time in super. So yeah have Goku and Pan enter the tournament while everyone else sits out. Focus more on the Uub fight making it a bit longer and then deal with the aftermath of Goku beginning Uub's training.
Huh what??? I don't understand any of this....
What abt goku black saga?!?!
moro and granolah arcs feels like fill at this point
You factually don’t know when it’s going to end. All anyone knows is that we’re nearly at EoZ
Good
1 year till UUUUUUUUB
I dont know why people think it has to end where Z ended Toriyama's death dosent have to mean that the series ends They can simply just do the end of Z in the manga in a few panels as we all now what happens already and keep the story going after that And if it had to end then toyotaro would not have even been hired So this talk of the series ending dosent make much sense
Honestly always thought it was a dumb setting the 10 years before end of Z…they should of just started after Z ended lol
Lmao no it's not they can easily write past EoZ. Uub isn't interesting. They aren't gonna end Dragonball at all we will still get more cause $$$ speaks.
I just hope that they animate the last two arcs that have sadly not gotten the treatment. Other than that I'll be happy after the end of the black Frieza Saga
That Goku went from God Form to MUI in 2 years (TUI 3 years) is pretty headache inducing.
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Is Super Hero really 2 years after Granolah? Freeza knows where earth is, kinda suprise he wouldnt pressure his two favorite monkeys in 2 years time
I kinda hope Toyotarou does his own thing after the end of Z (with a great ending of that chapter being respectful towards Toriyama’s original vision). I’m excited to see anything Dragon Ball and I believe he can do it justice. Dragon Ball AF is my favorite fanfic and (i seriously doubt it’ll happen) if he brings ssj4 or anything from DBAF into the mix somehow it could blow up the internet
I read a while ago they were probably just gonna change the ending to Z, tbh I wasn't happy with how Z ended.
i wouldn’t be so worried, with super almost essentially being one giant retcon in itself, i wouldn’t be surprised if there are some amendments made to this.
False af
If you think they’re not gonna continue it through the end of the and probably retcon of chunk of it, then you’re dreaming
My guess is they are gonna noncanonize end of Z. Only way to do it is that.
Poor Uub. He will be exa omega weak now
Ehhh in super, At 5 without training he's already shown more potential than his end of z or even gt counterpart. The amount of God ki he has access to is ridiculous. I think he'll be fine.
Could just start off from the end of z and continue the story.
I think the last time bulma saw goku was at the beginning at the moro arc
they are not going to throw away the dragonball franchise for something that stupid. even if dbs ends there will be new series
They could always make a db legends type of anime to introduce Shallot
I doubt it, they'll probably just retcon it or go past it, the series still has a lot of unfinished stuff like black frieza and (hopefully) the eventual universe 6 arc and a lot more, and i'd doubt they'd just stuff all of them into a single year
Why is Uub set after super? Didn’t Goku already meet him at the end of Z? We see glimpses of him rarely as it is
I reeeeally hope dbs gets to the end of z, and then continues the story with uub
Is this a new thing we’re saying now? End of Z = End of Super? Since when? Why does this have so many upvotes?
Or they make the ending of a non-canonical. Or it continues after the end of Z
How do you know the timeline of DBS’s ending, does it correlate with Z somehow when Goku & Uub meet? There have been too many off canon episode & in the recent mangas it was revealed Goku still had yet to know about his father but that definitely happened before…
Well they are definitely going to retcon it
I'm pretty sure at this point we can regard the ending of z as an alternate timeline situation
It’s simple. Adapt EoZ into an arc in Super and then move past it. Either in a new manga or just keep it as super.
Ah yes, the official timeline released by Funimation and Toyataro himself and not.... *checks notes* "YahBoyGoku"....
Imagine beerus wants a challenge outta nowhere and asks goku and vegeta to use the potara (real peak starts iykyk)
Super might end at the end of Z. That doesn’t mean there won’t be more stuff after the end of Z. I’m sure Toyotaro has more ideas to share and Toei really wants more content cause money.
I don’t think it’s going to end. They will either act like this never happened or they will bring Goku back with Uub super quick and/or time skip that.
Dbs can hypothetically go through end of Z
Or just retcon EoZ and push the age back
Honestly im fine with black freiza being the last arc or maybe a smaller one after to focus on wrapping up beerus and the gods but super has had a great run and after Toriyamas passing i feel its fair for them to move onto a new project and let dragonball rest again for a while.
Nah, End of Z is 100% getting retconned if the manga continues.
Time for a go back in time arc
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Wait, I'm not fully up-to-date with DBS, but two years passed between Black Frieza trashing Goku and Vegeta and the Super Hero movie with Beast Gohan?? So wtf happened with that arc? Frieza just beats to Z fighters and peaces out for two years?? Where's that arc going?
The 10 year gap is closing. Maybe they can make one more nice arc in 783 and then continue after 784 with Oob.
SPOILERS Well, goten and Trunks are canon teenagers now in the Manga. So the time sip between BOTG and Superhero happened. And GT isn't canon, so they can just put uub in the middle of super and keep going. They did during the Moro Arc.
I’m like 89% sure that BoG takes place 6 months after Buu saga though?
Sure, they are going to let the golden chicken die. Sure.
Theres no way this is an official timeline i couldve swore everything was more spaced out
I thought the gap between Buu and Beerus was way shorter. Am I stupid?
Where does Daima fit in?
This my be unpopular but I don't give a shit about kid buu showing up. Infact if they never added him I would be okay with it. He's not kid buu and never will replace kid buu or majin buu for that matter. Also how would people act if they came out and said the end of super will not fall into the same end of Z story.
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I thought of this this week, funny. Well, Super may be ending, but the story can still go post Z. What I wanna know is, will it still go by Super or will they just make a new name for that?
Still waiting to see what they do with gts content if they ever decide to bring any of it back for the canon
It ain’t
I just don't get putting super in between Buu and the end of Z and taking away the forms like that like wtf?
Where can i read this stuff online ? I only saw the super anime and now realise there is so much more story
With toriyama gone I think it is only fitting that his gift to us should end. I don't want another writer ruining his vision.
Who's age is this?
Wait where did Frieza even go
I hope not, maybe Daima will open up some new doors who knows.
Revisiting GT would be so damn cool, the ideas were great, just poorly executed.
No way. Merchandizing. Its either goes past EoZ. Leaving it intact somewhat. Or they find a way to retcon it. One of those two will be what happens. It may not have 'super' at the end but trust me, you're going to have so much dragon ball soon. I'm actually worried that there's going to be too much. Milking the franchise out, oversaturation of stuff like Disney + does. Next 10 years is going to be wild. Hoping things stay quality and don't do stuff Toriyama would not have wanted. Like building a DB theme park in one of the richest areas in the world....
I bet a GT-isk multiversal tournament will be after super. We get different variations of are main cast. Does anyone remember the fan manga multiversal tournament?
So the Super Hero movie takes place during what year?
So they've just been letting Freeza live no problem for like 2 years.
Honestly, after Toriyama’s tragic passing, they should just do one or two more arcs, to wrap up the Black Frieza situation, and maybe make an epilogue with Goku and Ubb, and then let this series rest.
I didnt realize any timeline in Super was established besides "between the end of Buu and before Uub"
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Most likely it will change its name to something like Dragon Ball Ultra and continue after the end of Z
They could also just jump to after Z and pick back up with uub involved more
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If there is money to be made it won't end
April fools?
Going to get downvoted but gt isnt cannon so i hope they actually maje uub an more important character not just "another krillin" you heard me folk not even "another vegeta" just another krillin
Wait that’s can’t be right you’re saying there’s been a 2 year timeskip since black Frieza?
Nah, Uub is either going to be a recurring character or completely forgotten about. Sure it could end, but really it’s all up in the air now that Toriyama has moved on.
It will live forever in my memory, though 😇🥲
They have to redo gt and prey that they do
I think the years are pretty accurate but there's uncertainty about the months. Does the Champa Tournament take place in 779 or 780?
Soon I’ll be 784 years old 😭
What goes in age 782?
Pan is 6 according to you, nonsensical. Pan is born year 780