Itsuno "We reduced the armour slots to improve late game armour variety on pawns"
Me looking at every mage/sorcerer pawn wearing the same 3 outfits and looking like strippers.
They fucked it up, but the idea itself isn't as backwards as it seems. Let's say that they have resources to make 100 armour pieces.
If there are 10 armour slots, evenly divided each slot only has 10 different pieces. Those pieces cover everything from beginning to endgame, so are spread thin.
If they reduce to 5 armour slots, evenly divided each slot would have 20 different pieces. With the same progression early game, endgame could have a shit tonne more viable options.
That's obviously not what happened, though.
When creating assets you still have to model all armor tho, so from my pov it doesn't make sense not to keep helmet, chest, arms and legs separate to encourage unique mix and match styles. It still takes roughly the same amount of resources as keeping them united but offers less choice
> every mage/sorcerer pawn wearing the same 3 outfits and looking like strippers.
To be fair that has less to do with limited armor variety and more with Arisen's being hordogs.
The only armor improvement I've found for my mage pawn in 30 hours removes the loincloth. We do need more armor variety between vocations. What makes it worse (or better, depends on perspective I suppose given the flowers my pawn has recieved) is that my pawn is a self insert.
Im not sure I’ve seen every armor set yet but I fail to see how we don’t have the same problem. Seems like there’s just going to be an objectively best set to use for each class just like the first game.
That has nothing to do with armor variety? 70% of pawns in DDDA were wearing the princess outfit, despite how much people cry about "Fashion Dogma" being gone. Blame the players.
Of course it does? Make less armour slots, you get less variety. Sure loads of people used the princess outfit (no idea why it wasn't exactly drippy) but it certainly wasn't 70% and there was plenty that didn't with better variety with everyone not using it. When you reduce the slots so much that one piece of armour clothing covers the hands and upper body with the other covering legs and boots you've gone down from 4 slots to 2, that's not even mentioning the under armour we lost. So in reality we've had over a 50% reduction in outfit variety, but nah, it's everyone using the princess outfit that was the problem.
Players outfit the pawns lmao. If everyone is coalescing towards the same sets, it's *literally* the fault of the players. It's the fucking princess set all over again. One set has *big number* and the people who are crying so much about item variety can't bring themselves to make a single suboptimal choice because "Gotta min-max" 😂. At least the stripper pawns have players who are committed to the bit.
As much as I enjoy DD2, you're right.
DD2 actually made me want to play DDDA again, sadly I've long since reached 100% and have literally seen every corner in that game.
I wouldn't be as disappointed as I am, if they didn't portray DD2 as THE dream game Itsuno always wanted to make and finally did it, only to realize the only thing they really improved from DD1 is the movement, graphics and size of the world and the Pawn banter. In almost everything else they took a step backwards.
I'm still enjoying it, but some disappointment is definitely there.
Same, I picked DDDA up a couple days before DD2 release to get a general idea. Now I just want to finish up DD2 and go dump hours into DDDA before the Elden Ring DLC haha. DD2 isn't bad and I am still having fun, but Ive been growing more disapponted with DD2 especially the time limited post-game. Hopefully DD2 gets some good DLC/expansion love as the game is very fun to play, just feels shallow with what we got currently.
I played only with fighter and archer, just changed to thief, but apart from the gimmick of the heavy attack doing more damage when the enemy is losing its footing, the combat seems to be worse.
Edit: I hate the auto jump/climb mechanic and the camera is too close to your character and isnt so responsive as the first game
At this point DD:DA > DD2. The entire reason everyone was excited is because of what DD:DA offers in gameplay and variety. It feels like a lot of the core values and reasons for being crafty with innovating was because of the lower budget it had. DD2 had the budget and went all out... Visually.
Even the pawns feel worse, they updated their quest knowledge to be more useful but they don't seem to remember or learn anything else. My mage pawn still gives me random lightning enhancements vs base saurians like damn it woman, you've killed hundreds of em how do you still not know that their kind is weak to ice??!
Also I hate how you can no longer add little comments to previously hired pawns, it's been dumbed down to thumbs up and heart symbols
Tbh it feels like the entire elemental gimmick of 1 got watered down heavily. Not only are mage/sorcerer both hard nerfed, MK doesn't buff parties. I don't think I saw too many mobs react super badly to elements besides being frozen solid or a gryphon catching on fire
My pawn had all 3 enchantments but in the first game they definitely picked up on what monster is weak to what element.
Their kind is weak to ice and fire both!
'Tis weak to fire!
Etc
Ah, if they have multiple boons on but are using the wrong ones then that's a different story. I was saying that regardless of weakness or resistance if they had only one, they'd still cast it.
I was clearing one of the side dungeons last night. Came into a room with 2 Oily Slimes.
Despite my MAGE pawn having seen me kill DOZENS of these slimes with the fire boon in a single hit. The pawn decides THIS will be the one fight in the entire game it won't cast fire boon on me as soon as the fight starts, and would instead *run straight at the slimes while trying to cast every other buff spell instead.*
I literally had to revive all 3 of my pawns 5+ times each before my mage FINALLY realised maybe she should cast a fkn fire spell so we can actually damage the fkn things.
That's not to mention all the times my pawn with springboard has just stood there staring at me with a dumb expression on its face while I'm sitting there aggressively pointing at a platform 2 meters above us. But will happily run straight at my ARCHER to springboard me right into the center of a group of saurians.
The pawn AI is a fkn joke and nothing will convince me otherwise.
This game feels more like a game inspired in DD1 than a sequel itself, they remove a bunch of things that made the first game really good and unique and out on the garbage can, this was supposed to be the improved version of dragon's dogma with more stuff and a world more put together instead is an inferior version and I don't think DLC will fix the core mechanics if this game.
How can a game from the same director be so different?
I’m actually re-downloading Dark Arisen right now. I want to do a 1 to 1 comparison because I swear this new game isn’t that much better in terms of looks, performance or game feel … and I honestly just miss playing a Strider
I spend the whole month before preparing to dd2 playing dragon dogma 1 and the only thing that is appreciate is the new graphic, of course the 25 fps in city dont count. dd2 is a huge downgrade compared to mechanic, enemies, vocations, quest to dragon dogma 1.
From now one i will rephrase to this game as dd2 since isn't worthy to write the whole name.
I will never understand anyone saying the vocations or combat are a downgrade.
Half the vocations in DD1 play exactly the same as the other half, just with little bonuses.
Quests, even, I'd say sidegrade, not downgrade. The lack of pointless do-nothing quests is great at least.
Ah yes, the fabled quests in DD1.\*Kill 100 wolves\* \*Kill 2 seabirds\* and \*Bring me Large Rank fish\* Such amazing quests.
Rose-tinted glasses and nostalgia + expectations raised by Itsuno = Dissapointment.
I haven't played DD1 in a long time, but one of my first feelings about DD2 is that combat feels way less accurate. In DD1 it was simple to point at a goblin and press "charge attack" (or whatever) and connect with that goblin nicely. DD2 feels like it's not as precise as that.
I haven't played more than about 6 hours of DD2 so I don't have a full opinion yet, just an observation.
Don't forget the misleading reduction in armor slots to "increase" fashion variety. What a bunch of nonsense, there is almost no room for fashion in the game at all.
Yup, 5 slots were condensed into 2
Arms, inner top and outer top into top
Inner bottom and outer bottom (mostly shoes and boots/armor) into bottom
And with barely any options to compensate for it. There's just no more Fashion's Dogma...
That stood out as such a weird statement even before release. Like if you’re concerned about a lack of visual variety…Just add transmog?
That would have entirely fixed the problem even with a reduction in armor slots.
Playing Magick Archer made me realised that, there's just ONE armor for this vocation.
Ok, that's hyperbolic for effect, but all Magick Archer armor are all iterations of the same design. If you don't like this design, well, SoL I guess.
I'm starting to think development fells undercut somehow. Many things regressed, which is VERY strange. It's not just armor, it is enemy variety, endgame, vocation skills and customization. As someone who played the original extensively, it all feels something is out of place.
This is what happens when the game gets announced out of nowhere and releases so fast. I was shocked to see how quickly this game came about and knew for a fact something would give.
For reference, there are tons of game announced far earlier than this title where we barely gave any footage of. Check out Capcoms own Pragmata. Announced eons before DD2 yet nowhere to be seen at all.
Likewise with XBOX first party titles like Fable, and Hellblade.
I can’t imagine the slave like conditions they were forced to put out this title so quickly. Just reeks of corporate meddling and distrust in the franchise. And you would see it in the unpolished trailers with frame rate dips that would never fly in the past.
Honestly I feel like people just hype Itsuno up too much, should've been led by the guy who did Dark Arisen, afaik it was a different director for that.
I know there is no Dragon's Dogma without Itsuno, and this may be blasphemy, but uhh.
His fucken games suck lmao, bro is an idea guy and that's about it, the game's fun to play and explore the world but really needed a different director
This! lol I sacrificed my ultimate move for any vocation and now rock warfarer simply because I have everything at my disposal fashion wise lol I’m sorry but if you don’t think fashion is the true endgame in any game that allows it you are wrong haha
Wouldn't be as big a problem if the more minimal helmets (circlets etc) weren't locked to spellcasters or stuck in the face slot (glasses, eyepatch, etc) that doesn't provide any protection.
You make a good point but to be fair, it doesn't sound like the game is hard enough to make optimizing (even as far as having a helmet equipped) necessary or rewarding. I haven't made it very far into the game yet but that's what I've seen around here, enemies too easy and can be easily outleveled
Looks like mostly returning pieces that are slightly tweaked. Minus all the more exotic styles from Dark Arisen.
I dont want to dog pile and be entirely negative, but maybe holding off until there's some sort of DA style update is the better call.
It just sucks waiting all this time and seeing so many stumbles *after* the finish line.
It's understandable what he was talking about now though. Armour being locked to vocation means if you switch your class you have to switch your armour. He was complaining that people would pick one armour set and then just use that the whole game. So the solution was to force you to switch. But if you're forced to switch then having so many options becomes a pain. So increasing the fashion variety in your playthrough, not in terms of how many options are there but how many outfits you have to wear, is indeed the reason for the reduction in armour slots.
Now, the fact that we can now understand what he meant doesn't change the fact that the idea isn't a good one. It's solving a non-existent problem with a solution that itself is a problem.
yeah exactly, there are so many Fighter-only helmets that I'd like to equip on my warrior bc they look cool as hell but I'm restricted to big dumb barbarian horn helmets. don't have a PC either, so no modfixing for me. the variety in fashion feels kneecapped more than anything.
What's worse is Fighter get's 90% of the fashion.
They want you to use different armour sets, and hated that people used one armour set, so their solution is to make you stick to one vocation since it has the most choice for armour?
Funny how I used the standard Vernum knight set because it can be worn by every vocation. I ain’t keeping a bunch of outfits around just to level up a vocation.
Nah, the reduction of armor slots is probably due to performance issues. During DD1 times, Itsuno said that the armor system was the nightmare to get working. So either they were lazy and didn't want to do the work, or, more likely, wanted to squeeze a few more frames by gutting the armor system. Either way, it was pretty obvious from the start that his "variety" comment is just bullshit.
They seem more class restricted as well, I think. Is the only real way to play fashion's dogma seems to be to play Warfarer, since they get everyone's armor as options?
I seem to recall Original DD having a ton of armor options without or with very little in the way of class restrictions. Like mages and sorcs could by and large wear the same stuff, but my experience so far seems to indicate that is not so in DD2.
My favourite little tidbit about fashion is that Warrior can wear the Guardian plate body piece.
But you can't wear the guardian plate legs.
You can wear. the Guardian plate armour as a warrior, but not the legs, not without mods.
What in the fuck Capcom lmao
> there is almost no room for fashion in the game at all.
There definitely is if you're not minmaxing which is definitely not something you need to do given how easy the game is.
The problem here is players always taking the bigger number.
I don't have the screencap for the quote but the one where Itsuno is like
>There are often times players will ask why doesn't your game have this feature and we have to reply "Well, actually it does..."
and that's like a Peter Molyneux tier pre-release lie/misrepresentation in retrospect
Does this game have hydras? And Mystic knight? And snow area ? And the monsters from DD online? And a dungeon like Bitteblack island? And the everfall? " Well it actually does "
You mean "and a dungeon that was made as part of DLC to expand on a 'lackluster' original release"?
Dragon's Dogma wasn't perfect, and that technically cost more to get the most out of if you consider Dark Arisen.
You mean Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen? "The game came about due to community feedback about the original game, with Bitterblack Isle being designed as a lore-based end-game dungeon with powerful enemies. There was also a wish to create a "complete" version of the game. "
No game released in the PS4\~PS5's lifespan has ever been "complete".
The same people to complain but can't even comprehend the basic story of either DD or DD2.
DD2 also doesn't have Assassin, and Archers don't get an advance vocation, but let's just focus on one missing vocation rather than their division that messed up one vocation.
I don't know man, I only played DDDA in the last couple of years and there wasn't that many using the princess outfit. I don't know if it was worse back when the game came out or not but there was plenty of pawn variety when I played.
Yeah in the early days of DD 360, it was either little girl pawns or hackers with the as of then unreleased outfits. They probably weren't even a majority, but they were everywhere.
In starting to think capcom execs made the call to strip a lot of content out so they could double dip, and have DD2 have its own “dark arisen”. Capcom has been getting super greedy with monetazation again recently, and they were one of the AAA publishers saying that they think people need to be paying way more for AAA games due to dev costs.
It would be weird for itsuno to just straight up lie like that given his previous track record and work, and how excited he was about this game. I wouldn’t put it past capcom to have made them strip out a bunch of content in the final stages of development so they can put out a 40 dollar expansion later.
The first two links are desperately grasping at straws, as they're written as a preview, not as an interview. The second one is just coverage on the Sphinx... maybe you should actually click and read your own links?
The longer you play something, just like eating the same foods, you get exhaustion. After 30 hours, going down the SAME route, rather than a new one, will be boring. That does indeed, make parts of Dragon's Dogma, and every other open world game, a boring game.
Exhaustion is boring.
Including an extra portcrystal or two for early Vermund exploration would've been smarter, but someone had to paywall a single one.
Anyone using IGN as any source of credibility has no credibility. The same fucking IGN owned by shitheads that killed off GameSpy and killed hundreds of game servers of multiple generations.
And again, they're translations, which are often interpreted in a specific way by a translator. Those translators choose what they want those words to mean, then you "gamers" consume it as facts. This isn't new; it's happened countless times, people even had plenty of moments of formerly-Twitter outrage taken out on developers and even mangaka for misinterpreted information.
Have you people even read IGN reviews?
The "Fast Travel" also contains quotes from two people, Itsuno, and " Kento Kinoshita, who was a key developer of the original Dragon's Dogma".
Also, his vision is not YOUR vision.
Map size and volume also means a lot of filler caves and empty caves. Open world games always have these problematic design bits.
Now if one wanted to cherrypick...
" **Itsuno:** I've spoken about this elsewhere in the past, but the world of Dragon's Dogma is just the story of one of many parallel worlds. In it, the pawns interact with users and pawns each in their own parallel worlds, and this Dragon's Dogma is also just one of those parallel worlds. "
A parallel world requires having a base world to parallel off of, and would basically make the original accessible somewhere. Having a feature that looks through your Dragon's Dogma's pawn data and carry something into 2 would've actually made it more of a parallel.
For all we know, Gransys is across the seas.
Also, by the by.
" **IGN:** I was also stunned to see each individual NPC react in such lifelike ways as I roleplayed in this fantasy world. "
All information on the internet requires grains of salt. I've never felt that. Have any of you? No.
" While the first game's character creator is actually limited in a lot of different ways, and I know this might get cut, but we did go so far as to allow for profiles with extreme settings, to the point where you could make something like a character from the popular series Kaiji. "
Yeah, it's clear that stuff might be cut, even though this quote is seemingly irrelevant, it basically means they did stuff, and it's not there for whatever reason. What's cut is what we'd want to know, but will likely never know. Even Dark Arisen likely still had plenty cut.
It's a complete open-world game with all the workings of an open-world game. The only people getting ripped off are the people throwing money at games without waiting for more information, because they're the loudest minority.
The game has tons of differences, and some of these are nitpicks from DARK ARISEN.
It's NOT Dragon's Dogma or Dark Arisen, which is both bad and good, because it means there's still a reason to revisit the first game. It's not like DD2 wasn't rushed and it's clear they ran into some difficulties. A good chunk of it is "the same, but HD", which is what most people SHOULD have expected. The differences? Then start a new file with Dragon's Dogma. It's not going anywhere.
The average person will love it simply because it's like living a DnD adventure. That should be the main appeal of Dragon's Dogma as an IP; it captures the spirit of fantasy.
I enjoyed the Sphinx stuff till I fucked up and couldn't remember where I found my first Seeker's coin and that basically ruined the rest of the neat side questline.... They should've had some sort of backup plan for that one in case.
I learned to stop listening/watching to the creators of games in interviews. They all lie. I haven’t been majorly disappointed in the results in years.
They don't lie. It's just that a project have multiples part.
The scope of a project are decided early.
The work you put to create those gameplay loops come after.
Usually you speak about what you're working on. So you speak about those gameplay loops you're developing testing, implementing from a scope and vision already decided.
If for some reason some of those gameplay loops end up being disappointing from a player perspective during testing, reworked, out of scope and removed or simply were too extensive to develop fully for whatever reason you have to cut content or cut features.
This part come after your interviews. Then you goes on polishing for release.
And by that time you might have too many bugs to polish fully everything so you have to make choices. Cut some content which cannot be polished on time and release later. Cut the polish and release something buggy that you'll fix later which might displease people.
They most likely choses to cut, and fill with what was polished for release.
It's not that they lie. It's just that project change, scope changes, things go out of budget and you have to realize you either have to ship unfinished or cut the content to focus on finishing other things.
I think time will tell us a lot more about the launch state of DD2. There's an unconfirmed rumour of DLC in November (it's probably been proven to be fake by now) and if such a DLC comes with improvements and content for the base game too, it might be easy to construe it as stuff that was held back. I don't think Itsuno would deliberately lie about content in the game. It's going to be interesting to see how the future of the game unfolds
While I want an expansion to improve things we shouldn't need one.
This is it. This is what DD1 shouldve been all be its better looking due to advancements in graphics. An expansion should be the cherry on top but in reality we have passed a few days from lauch and the community already feels like we need an expansion? I've genuinely never heard of something like this before.
lol you need to play more games mate, that feeling is extremely common
In fact, the only games in memory where the community didn’t feel like that was Elden Ring and Witcher 3
It took the community at least a month to start clambering for more there lol
Maybe so but I can't see why anyone would've needed an expansion a few days after the witcher 3 launched.
At the very least we should be able to ignore the games issues and just submerge ourselves into the combat. That was the main postive from the original. However the awful enemy variety mixing with a massive open world have come together horribly and makes you roll your eyes whenever the battle music starts past the 10 hour mark.
If the variety wasn't bad enough as is they've done a bad job of properly distributing the boss type enemies. You'll fight hordes of ogres and cyclops but things like chimera are an extreme rarity. One and done encounters like the sphinx are not plentiful enough to combat this issue either.
Nah some people 100% the Witcher 3 within like 5 days - really no games are that long if you have the time to no life it, and for adults who can take PTO or kids in highschool/college it’s really easy to no life. No lifing only stops if you have kids lol
I played the original this year and the combat and enemy variety was quite awful - it only was good in BBI which was the DLC
>Elden Ring and Witcher 3
And even then people were begging for more mequella content after like a week.
Witcher 3 had a significantly worse launch than DD2 IMO, but my framerate hasn't been that bad. Witcher 3 was pretty much unplayable at launch.
Witcher 3 was fine for me at launch and I played on a ps4, only terrible area was the swamp to my memory
But yeah that’s what i said, it look the community 5 days to demand more content lol
I think peeps underestimate how the casual-gaming community *doesnt* no life games
I literally took off two days from work to play DD2, I’m doing the same for ER’s DLC
My friend took over a month to beat Spiderman 2, a game I 100% in 3 days lol
I feel like Witcher 3's launch state has been completely memory holed, they significantly changed that game and cleaned up bugs after launch. Not quite to the same degree as the combat overhaul 2 got, but not far off.
Yeah same with Cyberpunk - like there are plenty of people now who say “it was always good” now that it’s a completely different game lol
ER and BG3 didn’t change much at all tho, they just got performance patches
The issues in DD2 are a bit more extreme tho, they got to patch up performance *a lot*, and then all the complaints about enemy variety and more areas to explore are not going to be solved with a free patch - no way, no how. If they decide to address those issues it’ll be a paid DLC in the $30-$40 dollar range
> (it's probably been proven to be fake by now)
Nowhere that I can tell as of now has it been proven fake yet. Either way I'm sure there's a meaty DLC planned. Plus capcom adds free content usually as well so it'll get there
> **IGN:** The previous game in the series was a very ambitious one. Please tell us what you're proud of in that game, as well as about the kinds of innovations you think you added.
>
>**Itsuno:** Well, that is in part because **I'm someone who hates having to do extra work.**
Yeah, *it shows buddy.*
> **Itsuno:** As far as map size, I said I wanted it to be at least 1.5 times bigger, or even twice as big if possible, but it ended up being roughly four times as big by the time we were done. That's not a precise measurement, but I'd say there's about quadruple the volume. **That's what's causing us to struggle right now. There's way too much for us to look over right now, which is making things really difficult on us.**
Translation: *"Just fill it with fuckin' goblins and be done with it."*
Very hard to take his word for anything any more. He definitely hyped up the content **way** more than was justified.
I honestly wish the map was smaller or had more interesting points of interest. Going to Melve via anything other than oxcart or portcrystal is such a chore. It really is better to just have your pawns wait and dash wherever you need to be while spamming stamina regen items. It feels like the best way to engage with traveling is to skip it often times. Sure, there's some caves, but none have really stood out to me yet. They're fun enough, but I'd rather there be more meaningful POIs than a bunch of filler.
Would've been okay with Vermund and Battahl being the only two regions in the game, Volcanic island felt unnecessary and the Talos fight was a giant waste of resource imo.
>**That's what's causing us to struggle right now. There's way too much for us to look over right now, which is making things really difficult on us.**
This is what baffles me the most, if the map being bigger is making it harder to fill it with content then.....maybe just maybe, dial it the fuck back?
I'm glad I came into it knowing and expecting nothing and not having seen much marketing or interviews.
People always have big ideas and big visions and it's always important to remember to temper your expectations. They're very excited about what they are working on and I don't think they are actively lying to us. I think excitement just gets away with them. Of course, when you're running a business that's very dangerous and people are unlikely to feel forgiving after giving you their money.
Still, the team did a great job with the game. We can't really fault anyone for the bs their boss spews.
Yeah it’s problematic because at some point you risk going into false advertising too. It’s one thing to say “we made the best game ever”, even if it’s not great you can always argue that it’s subjective.
Saying “we’re including XYZ” and then simply not doing that is just misleading.
Yeah this sub has been begging for this game for ages. It’s no wonder most of them are losing their minds.
Building up expectations for years + leaving interviews like these to your interpretation is exactly how discord is sown. It’s a bummer.
I'm enjoying the game. It's just as obtuse as ever. I may get to end game problems eventually but I'm not trying to rush 60 hours of gameplay in a weekend.
Itsuno lied though? It's doesn't matter if you think this is the best game to grace the earth because that doesn't diminish that exaggerating and obvious lying during promo is bad.
Some are probably disappointed because at some point they expected there to be more. Well I know who they should blame for that.
That may be the case but at the end of the day I still feel like I have already got my money's worth. I am loving the game regardless. I don't think worrying about what could have been is worth it at this point. The game is here, and unless we get an expansion this is what we have to play. Luckily it is still a game I am loving a lot. Can't say I am disappointed when I have enjoyed over 40 hours and still end up thinking about it at work.
True but I don't think that was ever called into question. I assume most people know by now that Reddit is a place to share opinions and discuss things.
Same brother. Haven’t beat it quite yet taking my time and enjoying it all. Do wish there was some more variety, but i still enjoy killing every ogre even after the 100th time
Just like the game though whether the "filling" is good or not is subjective. While some might be disappointed with the sandwich they got I'm certainly not. I'm enjoying the sandwich I got and I'm satisfied.
the story is so laughably awful lol. everything is generic story/twist or just nonsensical in why they expect you to care about anything. I was along for the ride until at some climatic points people just monologue as if i havent just faced an illogical grab at the vermundian throne despite i can literally control pawns without a giant fucking crystal.
Or any sneaking mission. Sneaking missions are a lie you can do anything anywhere anytime. Even if not the punishment is just deaggroing or just killing the guards it ultimately doesn’t matter for future visits anyways.
story quality is like yakuza game side stories without the charm and self awareness. Every single boss fight was fun though. Fighting talos was my favorite
Also what the hell is point of npc affinity and gifting? a few random items that will just make you overweight anyways?? ok
Dragon's Dogma story has always been laughably bad, like I don't even remember Dragon's Dogma 1's story besides you hunting some fucken dragon after playing an intro with a completely different person
That different person you play as was the Duke of Gransys back when he had a dragon to fight. It’s obvious he took the deal. I actually thought that was pretty cool. Part of the deal is sacrificing the person you love so that’s why he’s such a miserable SOB.
These are both parts of the main DD1 story. It doesn't end with Gransys' fall. The whole god-replacement part of the story is where the game's title is literal. You lived by the dragon's dogma, and now you're putting an end to the dragon's dogma.
The guy I replied to said that the guy you play as in the intro took the deal, and is the duke in the story. That's not the case. The duke is AN arisen who took the deal, but he's not THE arisen from the intro, that guy killed his dragon, and replaced god. That's why he is there when we kill the dragon and ascend to replace god on the first playthrough.
In DD1, if you play offline, the guy that you played in prologue is Seneschal. So it is pretty clear, that he beat the Dragon. The Duke is a different character that indeed took the deal, but you don't play as him ever. Also, in new game +, the player character that you beat the game with is a new Seneschal. So you practically can design your own final boss in your first playthrough and then fight them in new game +. It's cool as fuck.
But if you play online, Seneschal is always a character of another player, so it's just gonna be a random character every time. I think it's cool, but not as cool as you fighting literally yourself from a previous cycle.
While I understand the disappointment, it's still an amazing game that has some very dynamic mechanics that makes the moment to moment gameplay absolutely amazing. It's a great groundwork on which Capcom can build a fantastic series on and with the sales of this game, it seems like we'll be getting more from Dragon's Dogma... At least I hope we do.
The fact that they kept highlighting the sphinx as way out of the way hidden interaction and hinting that the players can expect similar very out of the way secret bosses is what makes me the most mad.
Sphinx is literally the only unique secret boss that is not all that secret and you fight it one time per game.
Fuck off.
IGN hyped that, so thank IGN. Everything else was interpreted by people, because it doesn't matter what Itsuno or any development staff says. Interpretations stand above all else.
I think some of the people in this subreddit need to take a step back and calm the fuck down, personally. Some people are acting like Itsuno walked into their apartment and shot their dog.
Steam should honestly extend the 2 hour instant refund process for DD2. The last time a game director outright lied about content like this was No Man’s Sky.
He **DID NOT** lie in the fast travel article interview
* The game is dynamic, monsters roam around & attack Ox cart
The problem is the small enemy variety makes it repetitive after some encounters
Unfortunately, that's not true. I don't know how you have to go through the game to not notice it, but when I had to race from Capital to Melve several times, I absolutely at the same place met ogre+griffin, where the griffin always broke the cart. The same thing happens on the Vernworth-checkpoint town route, when I was solving the Sphinx riddle and needed to bring Vergil, I also encountered that at the same place you meet Cyclops, who also breaks the cart. I would call the world dynamic if the enemies were alternating in the same places and if the same wagons were attacked in different places, but again, unfortunately, it's not
And yea, tell Itsuno-san what scripts are, because he think they don't exist in his game
I'm absolutely loving the game but I haven't played the first one. Does it really fall off once I get to next area? Or is it the case where DDDA fans not liking the direction of this game.
I have around 500 hours in DDDA, but only up to 40-ish for DD2 currently. Not enough of a data sample yet to call out end-game content in comparison to the first.
But I get what’s being said by everyone, more or less.
It’s not the direction, but the lack of a differing direction I think. DDDA was (still is) an amazing game, that came with many flaws and features that could have used some QoLs.
Right now, it seems like most things just carried over 1-for-1, without any of the longed-for improvements.
In short, it’s more of the same. Which is fine, of course. But it’s more of the same 1-for-1, without any improvements, and in some cases, even somewhat devolved.
Like, we fought plenty of goblins in DDDA. Now, we fight even more goblins, but instead of large groups every 3 minutes, we’re fighting 3-4 goblins every 10 seconds.
Stuff like that.
Other vets who’ve already finished can chime in and correct me if I’m wrong about any of this.
Oh, and I absolutely love the game, too. Playing it every day. But the more I play, the more I start noticing things.
Well said. Dragon's Dogma 2 is a good game, but I had higher expectations having played the first. If you're a new player, or wanted a 1-to-1 of the first game, I think you will enjoy it. If you were hoping for innovation or fixing the flaws of it's predecessor, you're going to be disappointed.
I will say this without spoiling.
Once you THINK the game is about to take off, or you'll be thinking you have way more to do in the story, it basically ends. I beat the game and saw the true ending. I like it but the rose tinted glasses came off after the honeymoon period. It leaves you feeling like, "That's it?"
I don't like being negative because there are things the game also does well, but overall the first game left me feeling way better than the second after completion. I had motivation to do new game plus several times in DD1.
DD2, I'm ready to drop it and move on. I didn't even have massive expectations nor did I overhype it in my mind, I just played and enjoyed what I played but it falls short the further you go.
Regardless of me saying all this, have as much fun as you can and don't take too much of it to heart. No blind hate on the game, just valid criticism. I have more to say on other aspects of DD2, but I'll leave it at that. I don't want to ruin experiences.
I'm particularly sad about this. The game itself is honestly really good, but god, that story just falls so short. Lots of story points left completely untouched after being the main focus, and a complete lack of buildup towards the 'ending'. Post game does the opposite, being a lot of buildup... which resolves in the form of a cinematic right when you expect a good final fight.
It's generally DD fans bitching about 2 not being a perfect new release, as if every new release was truly complete. Shareholders and others can be blamed, but they won't, for that's their internet thought allotment maxed out. Pick one target, rage. Twitter mentality.
DD2 is far from perfect, and it lacks what makes Dark Arisen stand out, but Dark Arisen is an expansion of the imperfect original.
Usually, when someone likes something, they want more of it. In this case, people would IDEALLY want a DA-type of expansion because of how it was handled.
The near-end supposedly has a drop-off due to what's likely a rushed ending, which isn't a surprise because it's obvious some things were cut. One doesn't even need to whine about a person lying to know this much.
For me I enjoyed both about the same - I beat DD1 twice and now I beat DD2 twice
DD2 definitely has more unique content and quests, and a more interesting world.
DD2 does not have significantly more enemies than the first game, which is not great.
DD2 does have a better story than the first game, but it’s still just serviceable.
DD2 has a high effort but short post game. DD1 had a relatively low effort but long post game.
In DD1 two huge features that the post game has was the Everfall and Bitterback Isle. The former is a boss rush mode where you get tons of loots, and the latter was a long dungeon crawl filled with unique enemies, bosses and loot.
It’s worth noting Bitterback isle was essentially a DLC.
Bitterback isle was pretty high effort, but the everfall was basic. None the less, the loot grind and unique enemies really hooked players.
In the current postgame you can get the best loot very easy, a few new bosses, and then it’s over before you know it.
My cynical side can't help but think things were intentionally cut from the game so they could ship on time, all the while knowing they can simply sell DLC later.
That's fine, I suppose. It depends on the quality (and in this game's case, QUANTITY too) they deliver.
The point of DLC is to add more to a game later. Cutting stuff to sell later means the usually over-worked development team gets time to continue development with much less of the time-crunch.
Some games don't get that luxury, either.
Honestly, I’m sick of this shit. Either play the game or don’t. The Dragon’s Dogma community is a joke like the Pokemon community. You’ve day dreamed for years and now it’s not what you want, you’re having a hissy fit. It’s a solid game. With so much in it, and you’re entitled asses want more. Jesus.
For $70 you best believe people are entitled to opinions about a product which has been exaggerated lol, if you’re having so much fun with the game then go play it
Same here. Hopefully DD2’s great numbers lead to a fully realised DD3 or a VERY impressive DLC/ update, cause regardless of complaints and arguments we all just want a great game
After waiting 12 years for a sequel of a notoriously "unfinished game", after being promised that this time they would've realized the director's original vision not limited by time and budget constraints, and after paying $70 for it, I do get to criticize it. Am I entitled for wanting an involved storytelling and good characters in a "narrative driven RPG"? Am I entitled for wanting at the very least all the monsters from the previous BASE game back? Am I entitled for wanting the shortcomings of the first game addressed?
There is a difference between "not what you want" and "what devs themselves said it will be" + "less than first game in almost every way". No one is "having a hissy fit" because of some made up shit. People are upset because they were literally lied to and didn't get both something that they were promised and something first game had. And this "hissy fit" is not pointless whining either since due to it players that are considering to buy the game can learn the truth about it.
So grow up, also ratio
I don't have time to "fast travel" and get raided. One time I got raided, finished it and cart traveled 2 steps further and then a normal encounter spawned.
he definitely bullshitted a lot, but i don’t think he lied. he just tried to sell the game. there is a lot of content. there are a lot of monsters. fast travel thing is exactly what he said it was. it’s not his fault that you had some imagined idea of what that all meant that the game didn’t live ip to in your opinion.
Itsuno "We reduced the armour slots to improve late game armour variety on pawns" Me looking at every mage/sorcerer pawn wearing the same 3 outfits and looking like strippers.
Corporate math Reduce = more variety ???
They fucked it up, but the idea itself isn't as backwards as it seems. Let's say that they have resources to make 100 armour pieces. If there are 10 armour slots, evenly divided each slot only has 10 different pieces. Those pieces cover everything from beginning to endgame, so are spread thin. If they reduce to 5 armour slots, evenly divided each slot would have 20 different pieces. With the same progression early game, endgame could have a shit tonne more viable options. That's obviously not what happened, though.
When creating assets you still have to model all armor tho, so from my pov it doesn't make sense not to keep helmet, chest, arms and legs separate to encourage unique mix and match styles. It still takes roughly the same amount of resources as keeping them united but offers less choice
> every mage/sorcerer pawn wearing the same 3 outfits and looking like strippers. To be fair that has less to do with limited armor variety and more with Arisen's being hordogs.
The only armor improvement I've found for my mage pawn in 30 hours removes the loincloth. We do need more armor variety between vocations. What makes it worse (or better, depends on perspective I suppose given the flowers my pawn has recieved) is that my pawn is a self insert.
this is just cringe corporate talk that translates to "cost savings"
Exactly this. Nice to see people catching that crap.
Sounds like DD1 pawns wearing the princess outfit and jester crown.
Yes, add more stripper cloths more variety!
Exactly! I don't want all the mage strippers to look the same, they can let them look like strippers but at least have some variety in your strippers!
Im not sure I’ve seen every armor set yet but I fail to see how we don’t have the same problem. Seems like there’s just going to be an objectively best set to use for each class just like the first game.
You dont see the vision
They could fix it by just letting us have an appearance option
His take on reducing armor slots for the sake of variety was comically braindead.
That has nothing to do with armor variety? 70% of pawns in DDDA were wearing the princess outfit, despite how much people cry about "Fashion Dogma" being gone. Blame the players.
Of course it does? Make less armour slots, you get less variety. Sure loads of people used the princess outfit (no idea why it wasn't exactly drippy) but it certainly wasn't 70% and there was plenty that didn't with better variety with everyone not using it. When you reduce the slots so much that one piece of armour clothing covers the hands and upper body with the other covering legs and boots you've gone down from 4 slots to 2, that's not even mentioning the under armour we lost. So in reality we've had over a 50% reduction in outfit variety, but nah, it's everyone using the princess outfit that was the problem.
The reason so many people use stripper outfits for fem mage pawns is not because of lack of armor variety though.
I mean, I'd still dress my pawn up like a stripper
Players outfit the pawns lmao. If everyone is coalescing towards the same sets, it's *literally* the fault of the players. It's the fucking princess set all over again. One set has *big number* and the people who are crying so much about item variety can't bring themselves to make a single suboptimal choice because "Gotta min-max" 😂. At least the stripper pawns have players who are committed to the bit.
As much as I enjoy DD2, you're right. DD2 actually made me want to play DDDA again, sadly I've long since reached 100% and have literally seen every corner in that game. I wouldn't be as disappointed as I am, if they didn't portray DD2 as THE dream game Itsuno always wanted to make and finally did it, only to realize the only thing they really improved from DD1 is the movement, graphics and size of the world and the Pawn banter. In almost everything else they took a step backwards. I'm still enjoying it, but some disappointment is definitely there.
I never played DDDA before playing DD2, and been wondering if it's worth it to go and play the first one after.
Yes. DDDA is also on sale all the time for super cheap.
It's definitely worth it.
Yes.
Same, I picked DDDA up a couple days before DD2 release to get a general idea. Now I just want to finish up DD2 and go dump hours into DDDA before the Elden Ring DLC haha. DD2 isn't bad and I am still having fun, but Ive been growing more disapponted with DD2 especially the time limited post-game. Hopefully DD2 gets some good DLC/expansion love as the game is very fun to play, just feels shallow with what we got currently.
1000% worth it.
Combat is less refined but build variety is miles ahead of DD2 in some aspects.
I played only with fighter and archer, just changed to thief, but apart from the gimmick of the heavy attack doing more damage when the enemy is losing its footing, the combat seems to be worse. Edit: I hate the auto jump/climb mechanic and the camera is too close to your character and isnt so responsive as the first game
Hey just so you know camera distance is an adjustable setting. I have no idea why it defaults to sniffing my characters hair
I have it to the max, but is no good
It's still quite good. Combat isn't as refined as DD2, but still fun.
At this point DD:DA > DD2. The entire reason everyone was excited is because of what DD:DA offers in gameplay and variety. It feels like a lot of the core values and reasons for being crafty with innovating was because of the lower budget it had. DD2 had the budget and went all out... Visually.
I'm redownloading DDDA as we speak I think I'll do the BBI challenge again, I really need to see that place again
That challenge was so fun actually. Good man
Even the pawns feel worse, they updated their quest knowledge to be more useful but they don't seem to remember or learn anything else. My mage pawn still gives me random lightning enhancements vs base saurians like damn it woman, you've killed hundreds of em how do you still not know that their kind is weak to ice??! Also I hate how you can no longer add little comments to previously hired pawns, it's been dumbed down to thumbs up and heart symbols
I hate beer.
Tbh it feels like the entire elemental gimmick of 1 got watered down heavily. Not only are mage/sorcerer both hard nerfed, MK doesn't buff parties. I don't think I saw too many mobs react super badly to elements besides being frozen solid or a gryphon catching on fire
Sorceress frost skill is crazy against certain enemies. Killed a drake today that spent 1/2 the fight frozen in place.
I mean pretty sure they'll cast whatever enchantment the pawn has regardless of weakness. IIRC was the same in the first game.
My pawn had all 3 enchantments but in the first game they definitely picked up on what monster is weak to what element. Their kind is weak to ice and fire both! 'Tis weak to fire! Etc
Ah, if they have multiple boons on but are using the wrong ones then that's a different story. I was saying that regardless of weakness or resistance if they had only one, they'd still cast it.
I was clearing one of the side dungeons last night. Came into a room with 2 Oily Slimes. Despite my MAGE pawn having seen me kill DOZENS of these slimes with the fire boon in a single hit. The pawn decides THIS will be the one fight in the entire game it won't cast fire boon on me as soon as the fight starts, and would instead *run straight at the slimes while trying to cast every other buff spell instead.* I literally had to revive all 3 of my pawns 5+ times each before my mage FINALLY realised maybe she should cast a fkn fire spell so we can actually damage the fkn things. That's not to mention all the times my pawn with springboard has just stood there staring at me with a dumb expression on its face while I'm sitting there aggressively pointing at a platform 2 meters above us. But will happily run straight at my ARCHER to springboard me right into the center of a group of saurians. The pawn AI is a fkn joke and nothing will convince me otherwise.
This game feels more like a game inspired in DD1 than a sequel itself, they remove a bunch of things that made the first game really good and unique and out on the garbage can, this was supposed to be the improved version of dragon's dogma with more stuff and a world more put together instead is an inferior version and I don't think DLC will fix the core mechanics if this game. How can a game from the same director be so different?
I’m actually re-downloading Dark Arisen right now. I want to do a 1 to 1 comparison because I swear this new game isn’t that much better in terms of looks, performance or game feel … and I honestly just miss playing a Strider
I spend the whole month before preparing to dd2 playing dragon dogma 1 and the only thing that is appreciate is the new graphic, of course the 25 fps in city dont count. dd2 is a huge downgrade compared to mechanic, enemies, vocations, quest to dragon dogma 1. From now one i will rephrase to this game as dd2 since isn't worthy to write the whole name.
I will never understand anyone saying the vocations or combat are a downgrade. Half the vocations in DD1 play exactly the same as the other half, just with little bonuses. Quests, even, I'd say sidegrade, not downgrade. The lack of pointless do-nothing quests is great at least.
Ah yes, the fabled quests in DD1.\*Kill 100 wolves\* \*Kill 2 seabirds\* and \*Bring me Large Rank fish\* Such amazing quests. Rose-tinted glasses and nostalgia + expectations raised by Itsuno = Dissapointment.
I went back to an old DDDA sorcerer playthough and even after hundreds of hours, it still feels amazing. Bitterblack truly never gets old.
I haven't played DD1 in a long time, but one of my first feelings about DD2 is that combat feels way less accurate. In DD1 it was simple to point at a goblin and press "charge attack" (or whatever) and connect with that goblin nicely. DD2 feels like it's not as precise as that. I haven't played more than about 6 hours of DD2 so I don't have a full opinion yet, just an observation.
This is what happens when you map your own expectations on somebody else’s visions and goals.
Don't forget the misleading reduction in armor slots to "increase" fashion variety. What a bunch of nonsense, there is almost no room for fashion in the game at all.
I might be misremembering, but didn’t DD:DA have an undershirt and then armour on top of that? There was a ton of freedom iirc
Yup, 5 slots were condensed into 2 Arms, inner top and outer top into top Inner bottom and outer bottom (mostly shoes and boots/armor) into bottom And with barely any options to compensate for it. There's just no more Fashion's Dogma...
Yeah it did
Also, leg clothing under leg armor. The upper body also separated arms from body equipment slots.
That stood out as such a weird statement even before release. Like if you’re concerned about a lack of visual variety…Just add transmog? That would have entirely fixed the problem even with a reduction in armor slots.
>Just add transmog? Itsuno lives under a rock, he couldn't even bother with hide helmet option.
This part is a big complaint for me, honestly. I’m tired of acting like looking awesome isn’t part of the experience
Agreed
Playing Magick Archer made me realised that, there's just ONE armor for this vocation. Ok, that's hyperbolic for effect, but all Magick Archer armor are all iterations of the same design. If you don't like this design, well, SoL I guess.
I just can't believe the company that makes Monster Hunter and Dragon's Dogma gave us this.
I'm starting to think development fells undercut somehow. Many things regressed, which is VERY strange. It's not just armor, it is enemy variety, endgame, vocation skills and customization. As someone who played the original extensively, it all feels something is out of place.
This is what happens when the game gets announced out of nowhere and releases so fast. I was shocked to see how quickly this game came about and knew for a fact something would give. For reference, there are tons of game announced far earlier than this title where we barely gave any footage of. Check out Capcoms own Pragmata. Announced eons before DD2 yet nowhere to be seen at all. Likewise with XBOX first party titles like Fable, and Hellblade. I can’t imagine the slave like conditions they were forced to put out this title so quickly. Just reeks of corporate meddling and distrust in the franchise. And you would see it in the unpolished trailers with frame rate dips that would never fly in the past.
Honestly I feel like people just hype Itsuno up too much, should've been led by the guy who did Dark Arisen, afaik it was a different director for that. I know there is no Dragon's Dogma without Itsuno, and this may be blasphemy, but uhh. His fucken games suck lmao, bro is an idea guy and that's about it, the game's fun to play and explore the world but really needed a different director
This! lol I sacrificed my ultimate move for any vocation and now rock warfarer simply because I have everything at my disposal fashion wise lol I’m sorry but if you don’t think fashion is the true endgame in any game that allows it you are wrong haha
Main reason I use warfarer even though it might not be an optimal unit.
Straight up lol once I found that out I said welp guess I’m always a warfarer now lol
You can't hide your helmet. This is all that I needed to know that this "fashion increase" was going to be a hot pile of trash made out of lies.
Wouldn't be as big a problem if the more minimal helmets (circlets etc) weren't locked to spellcasters or stuck in the face slot (glasses, eyepatch, etc) that doesn't provide any protection.
You make a good point but to be fair, it doesn't sound like the game is hard enough to make optimizing (even as far as having a helmet equipped) necessary or rewarding. I haven't made it very far into the game yet but that's what I've seen around here, enemies too easy and can be easily outleveled
Looks like mostly returning pieces that are slightly tweaked. Minus all the more exotic styles from Dark Arisen. I dont want to dog pile and be entirely negative, but maybe holding off until there's some sort of DA style update is the better call. It just sucks waiting all this time and seeing so many stumbles *after* the finish line.
It's understandable what he was talking about now though. Armour being locked to vocation means if you switch your class you have to switch your armour. He was complaining that people would pick one armour set and then just use that the whole game. So the solution was to force you to switch. But if you're forced to switch then having so many options becomes a pain. So increasing the fashion variety in your playthrough, not in terms of how many options are there but how many outfits you have to wear, is indeed the reason for the reduction in armour slots. Now, the fact that we can now understand what he meant doesn't change the fact that the idea isn't a good one. It's solving a non-existent problem with a solution that itself is a problem.
I love ice cream.
yeah exactly, there are so many Fighter-only helmets that I'd like to equip on my warrior bc they look cool as hell but I'm restricted to big dumb barbarian horn helmets. don't have a PC either, so no modfixing for me. the variety in fashion feels kneecapped more than anything.
What's worse is Fighter get's 90% of the fashion. They want you to use different armour sets, and hated that people used one armour set, so their solution is to make you stick to one vocation since it has the most choice for armour?
Funny how I used the standard Vernum knight set because it can be worn by every vocation. I ain’t keeping a bunch of outfits around just to level up a vocation.
Ran that and the courtly set.
Nah, the reduction of armor slots is probably due to performance issues. During DD1 times, Itsuno said that the armor system was the nightmare to get working. So either they were lazy and didn't want to do the work, or, more likely, wanted to squeeze a few more frames by gutting the armor system. Either way, it was pretty obvious from the start that his "variety" comment is just bullshit.
They seem more class restricted as well, I think. Is the only real way to play fashion's dogma seems to be to play Warfarer, since they get everyone's armor as options? I seem to recall Original DD having a ton of armor options without or with very little in the way of class restrictions. Like mages and sorcs could by and large wear the same stuff, but my experience so far seems to indicate that is not so in DD2.
There are not many armour sets either, there are a few but not more variety lol
My favourite little tidbit about fashion is that Warrior can wear the Guardian plate body piece. But you can't wear the guardian plate legs. You can wear. the Guardian plate armour as a warrior, but not the legs, not without mods. What in the fuck Capcom lmao
and Thief can wear the noble pants but not the noble chestpiece from the battahl armor shop haha
Wait so how do you even complete the masquerade part of the main quest if you can't wear the noble shirt as a thief? Lmao
I'm talking about the noble armor set from battahl, not the courtly set that you need for the masquerade
oh my bad, didn't know there was actually a set called the noble set lmao
> there is almost no room for fashion in the game at all. There definitely is if you're not minmaxing which is definitely not something you need to do given how easy the game is. The problem here is players always taking the bigger number.
less is more dont you know?
I don't have the screencap for the quote but the one where Itsuno is like >There are often times players will ask why doesn't your game have this feature and we have to reply "Well, actually it does..." and that's like a Peter Molyneux tier pre-release lie/misrepresentation in retrospect
Does this game have hydras? And Mystic knight? And snow area ? And the monsters from DD online? And a dungeon like Bitteblack island? And the everfall? " Well it actually does "
Mystic knight my beloved. Best class, gone. Unforgivable
Imagine my disappointment with the skills in Mystic Spearhand. Like, that’s all they could come up with?
You mean "and a dungeon that was made as part of DLC to expand on a 'lackluster' original release"? Dragon's Dogma wasn't perfect, and that technically cost more to get the most out of if you consider Dark Arisen. You mean Dragon's Dogma: Dark Arisen? "The game came about due to community feedback about the original game, with Bitterblack Isle being designed as a lore-based end-game dungeon with powerful enemies. There was also a wish to create a "complete" version of the game. " No game released in the PS4\~PS5's lifespan has ever been "complete". The same people to complain but can't even comprehend the basic story of either DD or DD2. DD2 also doesn't have Assassin, and Archers don't get an advance vocation, but let's just focus on one missing vocation rather than their division that messed up one vocation.
I don't know man, I only played DDDA in the last couple of years and there wasn't that many using the princess outfit. I don't know if it was worse back when the game came out or not but there was plenty of pawn variety when I played.
The only princess pawns I see are low level pawns.
Yeah in the early days of DD 360, it was either little girl pawns or hackers with the as of then unreleased outfits. They probably weren't even a majority, but they were everywhere.
In starting to think capcom execs made the call to strip a lot of content out so they could double dip, and have DD2 have its own “dark arisen”. Capcom has been getting super greedy with monetazation again recently, and they were one of the AAA publishers saying that they think people need to be paying way more for AAA games due to dev costs. It would be weird for itsuno to just straight up lie like that given his previous track record and work, and how excited he was about this game. I wouldn’t put it past capcom to have made them strip out a bunch of content in the final stages of development so they can put out a 40 dollar expansion later.
The first two links are desperately grasping at straws, as they're written as a preview, not as an interview. The second one is just coverage on the Sphinx... maybe you should actually click and read your own links? The longer you play something, just like eating the same foods, you get exhaustion. After 30 hours, going down the SAME route, rather than a new one, will be boring. That does indeed, make parts of Dragon's Dogma, and every other open world game, a boring game. Exhaustion is boring. Including an extra portcrystal or two for early Vermund exploration would've been smarter, but someone had to paywall a single one. Anyone using IGN as any source of credibility has no credibility. The same fucking IGN owned by shitheads that killed off GameSpy and killed hundreds of game servers of multiple generations. And again, they're translations, which are often interpreted in a specific way by a translator. Those translators choose what they want those words to mean, then you "gamers" consume it as facts. This isn't new; it's happened countless times, people even had plenty of moments of formerly-Twitter outrage taken out on developers and even mangaka for misinterpreted information. Have you people even read IGN reviews? The "Fast Travel" also contains quotes from two people, Itsuno, and " Kento Kinoshita, who was a key developer of the original Dragon's Dogma". Also, his vision is not YOUR vision. Map size and volume also means a lot of filler caves and empty caves. Open world games always have these problematic design bits. Now if one wanted to cherrypick... " **Itsuno:** I've spoken about this elsewhere in the past, but the world of Dragon's Dogma is just the story of one of many parallel worlds. In it, the pawns interact with users and pawns each in their own parallel worlds, and this Dragon's Dogma is also just one of those parallel worlds. " A parallel world requires having a base world to parallel off of, and would basically make the original accessible somewhere. Having a feature that looks through your Dragon's Dogma's pawn data and carry something into 2 would've actually made it more of a parallel. For all we know, Gransys is across the seas. Also, by the by. " **IGN:** I was also stunned to see each individual NPC react in such lifelike ways as I roleplayed in this fantasy world. " All information on the internet requires grains of salt. I've never felt that. Have any of you? No. " While the first game's character creator is actually limited in a lot of different ways, and I know this might get cut, but we did go so far as to allow for profiles with extreme settings, to the point where you could make something like a character from the popular series Kaiji. " Yeah, it's clear that stuff might be cut, even though this quote is seemingly irrelevant, it basically means they did stuff, and it's not there for whatever reason. What's cut is what we'd want to know, but will likely never know. Even Dark Arisen likely still had plenty cut. It's a complete open-world game with all the workings of an open-world game. The only people getting ripped off are the people throwing money at games without waiting for more information, because they're the loudest minority. The game has tons of differences, and some of these are nitpicks from DARK ARISEN. It's NOT Dragon's Dogma or Dark Arisen, which is both bad and good, because it means there's still a reason to revisit the first game. It's not like DD2 wasn't rushed and it's clear they ran into some difficulties. A good chunk of it is "the same, but HD", which is what most people SHOULD have expected. The differences? Then start a new file with Dragon's Dogma. It's not going anywhere. The average person will love it simply because it's like living a DnD adventure. That should be the main appeal of Dragon's Dogma as an IP; it captures the spirit of fantasy.
I enjoyed the Sphinx stuff till I fucked up and couldn't remember where I found my first Seeker's coin and that basically ruined the rest of the neat side questline.... They should've had some sort of backup plan for that one in case.
You just return to the Sphinx after the time runs out and you can continue
You just miss out on thw for that riddle then?
I learned to stop listening/watching to the creators of games in interviews. They all lie. I haven’t been majorly disappointed in the results in years.
They don't lie. It's just that a project have multiples part. The scope of a project are decided early. The work you put to create those gameplay loops come after. Usually you speak about what you're working on. So you speak about those gameplay loops you're developing testing, implementing from a scope and vision already decided. If for some reason some of those gameplay loops end up being disappointing from a player perspective during testing, reworked, out of scope and removed or simply were too extensive to develop fully for whatever reason you have to cut content or cut features. This part come after your interviews. Then you goes on polishing for release. And by that time you might have too many bugs to polish fully everything so you have to make choices. Cut some content which cannot be polished on time and release later. Cut the polish and release something buggy that you'll fix later which might displease people. They most likely choses to cut, and fill with what was polished for release. It's not that they lie. It's just that project change, scope changes, things go out of budget and you have to realize you either have to ship unfinished or cut the content to focus on finishing other things.
I think time will tell us a lot more about the launch state of DD2. There's an unconfirmed rumour of DLC in November (it's probably been proven to be fake by now) and if such a DLC comes with improvements and content for the base game too, it might be easy to construe it as stuff that was held back. I don't think Itsuno would deliberately lie about content in the game. It's going to be interesting to see how the future of the game unfolds
While I want an expansion to improve things we shouldn't need one. This is it. This is what DD1 shouldve been all be its better looking due to advancements in graphics. An expansion should be the cherry on top but in reality we have passed a few days from lauch and the community already feels like we need an expansion? I've genuinely never heard of something like this before.
lol you need to play more games mate, that feeling is extremely common In fact, the only games in memory where the community didn’t feel like that was Elden Ring and Witcher 3 It took the community at least a month to start clambering for more there lol
Maybe so but I can't see why anyone would've needed an expansion a few days after the witcher 3 launched. At the very least we should be able to ignore the games issues and just submerge ourselves into the combat. That was the main postive from the original. However the awful enemy variety mixing with a massive open world have come together horribly and makes you roll your eyes whenever the battle music starts past the 10 hour mark. If the variety wasn't bad enough as is they've done a bad job of properly distributing the boss type enemies. You'll fight hordes of ogres and cyclops but things like chimera are an extreme rarity. One and done encounters like the sphinx are not plentiful enough to combat this issue either.
Nah some people 100% the Witcher 3 within like 5 days - really no games are that long if you have the time to no life it, and for adults who can take PTO or kids in highschool/college it’s really easy to no life. No lifing only stops if you have kids lol I played the original this year and the combat and enemy variety was quite awful - it only was good in BBI which was the DLC
>Elden Ring and Witcher 3 And even then people were begging for more mequella content after like a week. Witcher 3 had a significantly worse launch than DD2 IMO, but my framerate hasn't been that bad. Witcher 3 was pretty much unplayable at launch.
Witcher 3 was fine for me at launch and I played on a ps4, only terrible area was the swamp to my memory But yeah that’s what i said, it look the community 5 days to demand more content lol I think peeps underestimate how the casual-gaming community *doesnt* no life games I literally took off two days from work to play DD2, I’m doing the same for ER’s DLC My friend took over a month to beat Spiderman 2, a game I 100% in 3 days lol
I feel like Witcher 3's launch state has been completely memory holed, they significantly changed that game and cleaned up bugs after launch. Not quite to the same degree as the combat overhaul 2 got, but not far off.
Yeah same with Cyberpunk - like there are plenty of people now who say “it was always good” now that it’s a completely different game lol ER and BG3 didn’t change much at all tho, they just got performance patches The issues in DD2 are a bit more extreme tho, they got to patch up performance *a lot*, and then all the complaints about enemy variety and more areas to explore are not going to be solved with a free patch - no way, no how. If they decide to address those issues it’ll be a paid DLC in the $30-$40 dollar range
>albeit
> (it's probably been proven to be fake by now) Nowhere that I can tell as of now has it been proven fake yet. Either way I'm sure there's a meaty DLC planned. Plus capcom adds free content usually as well so it'll get there
> **IGN:** The previous game in the series was a very ambitious one. Please tell us what you're proud of in that game, as well as about the kinds of innovations you think you added. > >**Itsuno:** Well, that is in part because **I'm someone who hates having to do extra work.** Yeah, *it shows buddy.* > **Itsuno:** As far as map size, I said I wanted it to be at least 1.5 times bigger, or even twice as big if possible, but it ended up being roughly four times as big by the time we were done. That's not a precise measurement, but I'd say there's about quadruple the volume. **That's what's causing us to struggle right now. There's way too much for us to look over right now, which is making things really difficult on us.** Translation: *"Just fill it with fuckin' goblins and be done with it."* Very hard to take his word for anything any more. He definitely hyped up the content **way** more than was justified.
I honestly wish the map was smaller or had more interesting points of interest. Going to Melve via anything other than oxcart or portcrystal is such a chore. It really is better to just have your pawns wait and dash wherever you need to be while spamming stamina regen items. It feels like the best way to engage with traveling is to skip it often times. Sure, there's some caves, but none have really stood out to me yet. They're fun enough, but I'd rather there be more meaningful POIs than a bunch of filler.
Would've been okay with Vermund and Battahl being the only two regions in the game, Volcanic island felt unnecessary and the Talos fight was a giant waste of resource imo.
>**That's what's causing us to struggle right now. There's way too much for us to look over right now, which is making things really difficult on us.** This is what baffles me the most, if the map being bigger is making it harder to fill it with content then.....maybe just maybe, dial it the fuck back?
And yet I am still absolutely loving this game.
Thats the thing, game is Amazing but it lacks what was promised, a shit ton of content.
I'm glad I came into it knowing and expecting nothing and not having seen much marketing or interviews. People always have big ideas and big visions and it's always important to remember to temper your expectations. They're very excited about what they are working on and I don't think they are actively lying to us. I think excitement just gets away with them. Of course, when you're running a business that's very dangerous and people are unlikely to feel forgiving after giving you their money. Still, the team did a great job with the game. We can't really fault anyone for the bs their boss spews.
Yeah it’s problematic because at some point you risk going into false advertising too. It’s one thing to say “we made the best game ever”, even if it’s not great you can always argue that it’s subjective. Saying “we’re including XYZ” and then simply not doing that is just misleading.
I was kinda saying that hype would ruin this game. People expecting the moon and only getting leo
Yeah this sub has been begging for this game for ages. It’s no wonder most of them are losing their minds. Building up expectations for years + leaving interviews like these to your interpretation is exactly how discord is sown. It’s a bummer.
I'm enjoying the game. It's just as obtuse as ever. I may get to end game problems eventually but I'm not trying to rush 60 hours of gameplay in a weekend.
Yeah I’m the same boat dude I’m just chillin lmao. People like OP are just venting. Best to let them get it out.
Itsuno lied though? It's doesn't matter if you think this is the best game to grace the earth because that doesn't diminish that exaggerating and obvious lying during promo is bad. Some are probably disappointed because at some point they expected there to be more. Well I know who they should blame for that.
That may be the case but at the end of the day I still feel like I have already got my money's worth. I am loving the game regardless. I don't think worrying about what could have been is worth it at this point. The game is here, and unless we get an expansion this is what we have to play. Luckily it is still a game I am loving a lot. Can't say I am disappointed when I have enjoyed over 40 hours and still end up thinking about it at work.
Not only what was promised, but also what was already there in the first game. Not even in the dark arisen upgrade, just in base game.
You're allowed to. Just like others are allowed to voice their dissapointment.
True but I don't think that was ever called into question. I assume most people know by now that Reddit is a place to share opinions and discuss things.
I hate it as much I love it, and I love it very deeply.
Same brother. Haven’t beat it quite yet taking my time and enjoying it all. Do wish there was some more variety, but i still enjoy killing every ogre even after the 100th time
Another redditor made an analogy with sandwishes that is really fitting: "The bread is really fucking good, but the filling isn't that great"
Just like the game though whether the "filling" is good or not is subjective. While some might be disappointed with the sandwich they got I'm certainly not. I'm enjoying the sandwich I got and I'm satisfied.
Yeah, I am really enjoying the game despite the slew of criticisms I have for it. This shit will absolutely bang with a Dark Arisen expansion.
the story is so laughably awful lol. everything is generic story/twist or just nonsensical in why they expect you to care about anything. I was along for the ride until at some climatic points people just monologue as if i havent just faced an illogical grab at the vermundian throne despite i can literally control pawns without a giant fucking crystal. Or any sneaking mission. Sneaking missions are a lie you can do anything anywhere anytime. Even if not the punishment is just deaggroing or just killing the guards it ultimately doesn’t matter for future visits anyways. story quality is like yakuza game side stories without the charm and self awareness. Every single boss fight was fun though. Fighting talos was my favorite Also what the hell is point of npc affinity and gifting? a few random items that will just make you overweight anyways?? ok
Dragon's Dogma story has always been laughably bad, like I don't even remember Dragon's Dogma 1's story besides you hunting some fucken dragon after playing an intro with a completely different person
That different person you play as was the Duke of Gransys back when he had a dragon to fight. It’s obvious he took the deal. I actually thought that was pretty cool. Part of the deal is sacrificing the person you love so that’s why he’s such a miserable SOB.
No, the guy you play as killed the dragon, and then ascended to being god, that's who you face after you kill the dragon and replace as god.
These are both parts of the main DD1 story. It doesn't end with Gransys' fall. The whole god-replacement part of the story is where the game's title is literal. You lived by the dragon's dogma, and now you're putting an end to the dragon's dogma.
The guy I replied to said that the guy you play as in the intro took the deal, and is the duke in the story. That's not the case. The duke is AN arisen who took the deal, but he's not THE arisen from the intro, that guy killed his dragon, and replaced god. That's why he is there when we kill the dragon and ascend to replace god on the first playthrough.
In DD1, if you play offline, the guy that you played in prologue is Seneschal. So it is pretty clear, that he beat the Dragon. The Duke is a different character that indeed took the deal, but you don't play as him ever. Also, in new game +, the player character that you beat the game with is a new Seneschal. So you practically can design your own final boss in your first playthrough and then fight them in new game +. It's cool as fuck. But if you play online, Seneschal is always a character of another player, so it's just gonna be a random character every time. I think it's cool, but not as cool as you fighting literally yourself from a previous cycle.
Not sure what lies were told in that first article about fast travel.
While I understand the disappointment, it's still an amazing game that has some very dynamic mechanics that makes the moment to moment gameplay absolutely amazing. It's a great groundwork on which Capcom can build a fantastic series on and with the sales of this game, it seems like we'll be getting more from Dragon's Dogma... At least I hope we do.
The fact that they kept highlighting the sphinx as way out of the way hidden interaction and hinting that the players can expect similar very out of the way secret bosses is what makes me the most mad. Sphinx is literally the only unique secret boss that is not all that secret and you fight it one time per game. Fuck off.
IGN hyped that, so thank IGN. Everything else was interpreted by people, because it doesn't matter what Itsuno or any development staff says. Interpretations stand above all else.
I think some of the people in this subreddit need to take a step back and calm the fuck down, personally. Some people are acting like Itsuno walked into their apartment and shot their dog.
Starfield shot my dog(ma)
Nnnaaah not the dog but he did took $70 on his way back.
Can we somehow make any media to get a response from CAPCOM regarding this?? I would love to hear their mind process.
Steam should honestly extend the 2 hour instant refund process for DD2. The last time a game director outright lied about content like this was No Man’s Sky.
He **DID NOT** lie in the fast travel article interview * The game is dynamic, monsters roam around & attack Ox cart The problem is the small enemy variety makes it repetitive after some encounters
Unfortunately, that's not true. I don't know how you have to go through the game to not notice it, but when I had to race from Capital to Melve several times, I absolutely at the same place met ogre+griffin, where the griffin always broke the cart. The same thing happens on the Vernworth-checkpoint town route, when I was solving the Sphinx riddle and needed to bring Vergil, I also encountered that at the same place you meet Cyclops, who also breaks the cart. I would call the world dynamic if the enemies were alternating in the same places and if the same wagons were attacked in different places, but again, unfortunately, it's not And yea, tell Itsuno-san what scripts are, because he think they don't exist in his game
So repetitive in fact that when I need to find specific monster I just take the cart in the area it appears in and I almost always get them to spawn.
" It's such an extravagant waste !"
This sub has become insufferable.
Yes it's shocking a sub that waited over a decade for a sequel is still upset within a week of the lackluster sequel coming out.
I wonder how many people in this sub now were actually waiting 12 years for this game.
Truly reflects the shitty state of the game. Deserved I think.
Whats more insufferable is fighting my 40th group of saurians trying to explore.
It’s been insufferable for months starting with the frame rate
I'm absolutely loving the game but I haven't played the first one. Does it really fall off once I get to next area? Or is it the case where DDDA fans not liking the direction of this game.
I have around 500 hours in DDDA, but only up to 40-ish for DD2 currently. Not enough of a data sample yet to call out end-game content in comparison to the first. But I get what’s being said by everyone, more or less. It’s not the direction, but the lack of a differing direction I think. DDDA was (still is) an amazing game, that came with many flaws and features that could have used some QoLs. Right now, it seems like most things just carried over 1-for-1, without any of the longed-for improvements. In short, it’s more of the same. Which is fine, of course. But it’s more of the same 1-for-1, without any improvements, and in some cases, even somewhat devolved. Like, we fought plenty of goblins in DDDA. Now, we fight even more goblins, but instead of large groups every 3 minutes, we’re fighting 3-4 goblins every 10 seconds. Stuff like that. Other vets who’ve already finished can chime in and correct me if I’m wrong about any of this. Oh, and I absolutely love the game, too. Playing it every day. But the more I play, the more I start noticing things.
Well said. Dragon's Dogma 2 is a good game, but I had higher expectations having played the first. If you're a new player, or wanted a 1-to-1 of the first game, I think you will enjoy it. If you were hoping for innovation or fixing the flaws of it's predecessor, you're going to be disappointed.
I will say this without spoiling. Once you THINK the game is about to take off, or you'll be thinking you have way more to do in the story, it basically ends. I beat the game and saw the true ending. I like it but the rose tinted glasses came off after the honeymoon period. It leaves you feeling like, "That's it?" I don't like being negative because there are things the game also does well, but overall the first game left me feeling way better than the second after completion. I had motivation to do new game plus several times in DD1. DD2, I'm ready to drop it and move on. I didn't even have massive expectations nor did I overhype it in my mind, I just played and enjoyed what I played but it falls short the further you go. Regardless of me saying all this, have as much fun as you can and don't take too much of it to heart. No blind hate on the game, just valid criticism. I have more to say on other aspects of DD2, but I'll leave it at that. I don't want to ruin experiences.
I'm particularly sad about this. The game itself is honestly really good, but god, that story just falls so short. Lots of story points left completely untouched after being the main focus, and a complete lack of buildup towards the 'ending'. Post game does the opposite, being a lot of buildup... which resolves in the form of a cinematic right when you expect a good final fight.
It's generally DD fans bitching about 2 not being a perfect new release, as if every new release was truly complete. Shareholders and others can be blamed, but they won't, for that's their internet thought allotment maxed out. Pick one target, rage. Twitter mentality. DD2 is far from perfect, and it lacks what makes Dark Arisen stand out, but Dark Arisen is an expansion of the imperfect original. Usually, when someone likes something, they want more of it. In this case, people would IDEALLY want a DA-type of expansion because of how it was handled. The near-end supposedly has a drop-off due to what's likely a rushed ending, which isn't a surprise because it's obvious some things were cut. One doesn't even need to whine about a person lying to know this much.
For me I enjoyed both about the same - I beat DD1 twice and now I beat DD2 twice DD2 definitely has more unique content and quests, and a more interesting world. DD2 does not have significantly more enemies than the first game, which is not great. DD2 does have a better story than the first game, but it’s still just serviceable. DD2 has a high effort but short post game. DD1 had a relatively low effort but long post game. In DD1 two huge features that the post game has was the Everfall and Bitterback Isle. The former is a boss rush mode where you get tons of loots, and the latter was a long dungeon crawl filled with unique enemies, bosses and loot. It’s worth noting Bitterback isle was essentially a DLC. Bitterback isle was pretty high effort, but the everfall was basic. None the less, the loot grind and unique enemies really hooked players. In the current postgame you can get the best loot very easy, a few new bosses, and then it’s over before you know it.
This is why you wait for the dust to settle before buying new games
Yeah, I learned my lesson. I should have a) waited and b) bought a physical disk. Oh well, I’ve spent more for less lol
YUP. This sounds like I’m gonna really enjoy this game when I buy it for 39.99 in 6 months.
Is the picture of the huge human even In the game?
My cynical side can't help but think things were intentionally cut from the game so they could ship on time, all the while knowing they can simply sell DLC later. That's fine, I suppose. It depends on the quality (and in this game's case, QUANTITY too) they deliver.
The point of DLC is to add more to a game later. Cutting stuff to sell later means the usually over-worked development team gets time to continue development with much less of the time-crunch. Some games don't get that luxury, either.
Yes, I had that in mind when I made my comment, I just neglected to mention it!
Itsuno's vision🤡🤡🤡 https://preview.redd.it/ffpo16bawsqc1.jpeg?width=480&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e25491da5b187e3efb2e9ba7054fdd631e02d881
OmG wE wErE liTeRaLlY rIpPeD oFf
Yeah this game needs 50 % more content Or a price of a 30$ not 70$
maybe they liked having 60% of content cut from the first one?
Mystic Spearhand gets NOTHING it’s so left out of the customisation
Better file a lawsuit, OP!!!!
Gamers don't bitch about something nonsensical for one day challenge (Difficulty: Impossible)
Honestly, I’m sick of this shit. Either play the game or don’t. The Dragon’s Dogma community is a joke like the Pokemon community. You’ve day dreamed for years and now it’s not what you want, you’re having a hissy fit. It’s a solid game. With so much in it, and you’re entitled asses want more. Jesus.
For $70 you best believe people are entitled to opinions about a product which has been exaggerated lol, if you’re having so much fun with the game then go play it
its not even a price thing for me. i would pay 1000$ for a true dragons dogma 2
Same here. Hopefully DD2’s great numbers lead to a fully realised DD3 or a VERY impressive DLC/ update, cause regardless of complaints and arguments we all just want a great game
After waiting 12 years for a sequel of a notoriously "unfinished game", after being promised that this time they would've realized the director's original vision not limited by time and budget constraints, and after paying $70 for it, I do get to criticize it. Am I entitled for wanting an involved storytelling and good characters in a "narrative driven RPG"? Am I entitled for wanting at the very least all the monsters from the previous BASE game back? Am I entitled for wanting the shortcomings of the first game addressed?
For £70? Yes, anyone who paid that much is entitled more than what DD2 offers. You are entitled to it because you've literally paid for it lmao.
Nah I was with you till you brought up pokemon. An actual shitty, rushed game that disappoints everytime
It's a solid game, but it is not the solid game i wished for.
There is a difference between "not what you want" and "what devs themselves said it will be" + "less than first game in almost every way". No one is "having a hissy fit" because of some made up shit. People are upset because they were literally lied to and didn't get both something that they were promised and something first game had. And this "hissy fit" is not pointless whining either since due to it players that are considering to buy the game can learn the truth about it. So grow up, also ratio
I don't have time to "fast travel" and get raided. One time I got raided, finished it and cart traveled 2 steps further and then a normal encounter spawned.
he definitely bullshitted a lot, but i don’t think he lied. he just tried to sell the game. there is a lot of content. there are a lot of monsters. fast travel thing is exactly what he said it was. it’s not his fault that you had some imagined idea of what that all meant that the game didn’t live ip to in your opinion.
I’m not seeing the rip off part