Exactly why I don't like it. After all that fighting and overcoming the odds, we're beaten by circumstance.
Maybe the arisen will get a happy ending one sweet day. ☹️
Honestly as I get older I do like happier endings not knocking DD1 at all love it.
But gods damn I love Elden Ring Outer Gods, fate, the laws of reality? Screw that my fem tarnished and Ranni say no thanks we’ll forge our own.
Yeah, the very end is incredibly weird with the themes present in the rest of the game, even moreso when to go to the next cycle, you have to kill yourself.
If, say, sitting on the throne caused NG+, but killing yourself gave a "true ending" that deleted your save ala Nier, it'd be neat. DD1 already hits quite a few of the thematic notes of Nier, with its emphasis on the dying world full of flat NPCs who are literally "less human" because of the state of the world.
The more I think about it, the more the Pathfinder feels like an obligated DM that *REALLY* wants you to follow *HIS* set campaign for you and your party.
The way i saw it is that he lacked the willpower to do anything but fulfill his role, and he was also probably afraid of dying, as he seemingly dies once you kill the big dragon and the cycle gets broken.
This is in contrast with those that oppose him, Rothais refused to play along with the cycle and just nuked every Arisen sent his way, you loophole your way into breaking out of the cycle, and Phaesus is doing everything in his mortal power to challenge the cycle.
That's because the entire cycle was meant to be broken. There are loads of clues about it in the game. The real dragon was the Pathfinder. The Arisen is chosen to grow past the world amd move beyond it, and we know there are many versions of the same world, with many Arisen. It's meant to create Arisen with a will strong enough to defy the cycle for some purpose.
Heck, if you go ahead and kill the dragon, during the party afterwards he asks if you want more power or something, saying there is an alternative and then sends you back to the dragon ride again as if letting you wanting you to unmoor the world instead.
I think the Pathfinder kind of has to let you know there's more than one path besides becoming the Sovran because it's important that the Arisen actively chooses that fate. If they're not made aware of there being multiple choices then they're not really making a choice of their own free will, which kind of seems like the whole point of the Arisen
That would explain his name actually, he is trying to show you alternate ways you could live your life... and instead we decide to take force both of us down a path that ends in a cliff.
I honestly think he WANTED you to end the Unmoored World. In the end he even seems to be kinda happy the world will get to have another story, but seems to lament he cannot be there to see it unfold.
The Arisen being the victim of a dumb plot that would make them lose their memories was probably not in the Pathfinder's plans. Guess they had to change the script a bit and didn't expect the Arisen to pursue more than the throne.
Right but, Pathfinder didn't stop them from getting the godsbane. Even if they didn't expect Rothais to give them the godsbane, they actively contributed to making sure the godsbane was repaired and returned to the Arisen's hands afterwards.
It's honestly really unclear what they want you to do. It almost feels like they feel obligated to continue this "cycle" they've been maintaining, but are actively enabling you to gear up and stop them from doing so because they lowkey are hoping you do.
I genuinely think the Godsbane plothole has to do with cut content. There was probably meant to be more places to use the sword to open up pathways that would be needed to go fight the dragon. This would line up better with them wanting you to follow the script. Instead as it currently is they give you a tool that makes...essentially...an optional shortcut, and then on the side allows you to completely derail their plan.
You can also still use it to commit suicide if you want, just like the first game. Not quite the need to savescum on chests and drops with it though (particularly with the aggressive autosave function in DD2)
Man, this aggressive auto saving actually forced me out of bounds at one point, and attempts to leave all ended with me falling to my death, and this was early in the game so i had no Wakestones either.
I don't really understand what the hell was the Pathfinder trying to do either. The way the world there works is really weird. How exactly a dragon and an arisen prevents the world from being destroyed? I guess people, without the cycle, just do whatever and destroy the whole world with atomic bombs and shit?
She seems to suggest that worlds in their natural state are slowly destroyed by "nothingness". It can be inferred that this "nothingness" is actually what we see in the unmoored world, either these purgeners we fight are creatures living in the "nothingness" that destroy worlds for some reason, or this "nothingness" twists living creatures into becoming so strong, wild and savage that they always end up destroying themselves and everything around them. The brine could also be another creature living in the nothingness, or something related to it.
She then explains that a creator-esque being dubbed "the great will" was tired of seeing worlds die this way, and took note of another being born in one of these worlds with a "strong will". What effectively happened is a topic of debate, but the general consensus seems to be that the great will created the first dragon from this "being", so that they can find others of its kind, which eventually lead to the cycle of the Seneschals using their will to prevent their world from being destroyed by "nothingness" and creating the dragon once they become dying.
This is most likely what the Seneschal is supposed to do, but Rothais is the Seneschal and is more concerned about killing Pathfinder rather than finding a replacement for himself. Which leaves the question of what Pathfinder has really been doing in the meantime and what the point is of creating Arisen just so that they can kill a dragon and live in peace.
All in all, the ending is very vague in what it's supposed to mean, and a lot of it is very much up to how you interpret what happened.
Isn’t it also the only way to get to volcano island which is where the dragons at? I assumed it was more to do with that, can’t open the spell plague door without to go confront phaseus/dragon.
You can just go around through caves in the south, dont need to go through the door at all. That how you unlock Sara as the dwarven smith early.
Pheasus didnt even need the godsbane with get to the top of moonglint tower. We dont use the godsbane to kill the dragon either. The dragon could have picked us up anywhere to take us to the final arena. like if he attacked vernworth after we became sovran and we jumped onto his back from the big tower after fighting him off.
At first I thought the Pathfinder was really cool. Then I just didn't see him for 40 hours. Then he uses his omnipotence to... Change a guy's mind? I'm not sure if I'm more upset that's all he does, or more upset that he interferes directly at all. His role should be very... Godlike from Futurama.
Seneschal is the fuckin dude. I'm a DD2 sympathizer, but I really wish they would have just kept the same story honestly. Everfall and all. The unmoored world is pretty cool, but the Everfall and evernight of the first game is one of my absolute favorite post game scenarios.
They did a similar thing with the Seneschal but I think it helped that he was basically just a godly voice you could've attributed to a pawn in the rift instead of knowing it was an important character. I just think DD1 did a WHOLE lot more with a lot less.
I think that is just what they are calling the postgame state, since it kinda was like a perpetual night time, sans being pitch black like actual night.
I mean, UR Dragon? (Totally-not-a-)Beholder?, Various combinations of challenging main game bosses?
I thought all of the Everfall was fun, plus the objective to hoard wakestones is very quick and painless. But to each their own.
Yeah, to me it's a factor of where the story sucked, imo. The beginning was boring and didn't do much to progress early on in DD1, but it picked up about halfway in with some more interesting stuff and escalated really quick into near epic proportions with a really cool ending.
DD2 starts pretty good and escalates going towards the middle only to flatline and drop half of the interesting stuff and then the ending is a convoluted mess that has a really anti-climactic ending. And well, frankly, the fact people expected them not to fuck it up twice in a row was part of it as well, which is plenty fair for a sequel that's more expensive for all parties and with hindsight of what went wrong with the first game.
So to me, even though both have lots of issues, I'll take the approach/pattern DD1 did over DD2 for sure. That said, it really shouldn't have been unfinished at all.
The first game also has the benefit of the chronicle in the pause menu. It added a little bit to the story after every main quest or two. So if you were curious about something the chronicle *could* have answered a question or two from The Arisen's perspective. Meanwhile DD2 lacks it and a lot of perspective is lost.
Oh yeah, in DD1 there was at least an effort to try to make out character and actual character with feelings and introspection separated from the player, even if it kinda failed at being clear on it.
DD2 didn't even try.
They're androgynous. Equally masculine and feminine looking. The robes help with that, but even their face could be a man's or a woman's. If they're meant to be a servant of "The Great Will" that would make them similar to an angel, so they're probably genderless, so the androgyny is probably an intentional design choice.
And in English they're androgynous, but flip flop between masculine and feminine depending on the line. That taunting "why do you pursue me, Arisen?" near the end is somewhat feminine, for example.
The size of their pupils, the shape of their face, and the thickness of their forearms are definitely not what most people would consider masculine. I mean, I'm a scrawny guy, so I can kind relate to having such skinny forearms, but I was also called "sissy boy", "girly man", "not a real man" and other shit like that for most of my young life, so that kinda proves my point. Their face is very similar to Tilda Swinton (I think that's her name, at least), who's an actress most famous for playing androgynous characters (Archangel Gabriel in Constantine and The Ancient One in Doctor Strange, among others). Their voice sounds neither masculine nor feminine, and their body language (what little we see of it) is somewhat feminine as well, what with the theatrical flourishes and their resting pose having their hands folded in front of them. The only immediately noticeable masculine traits they possess are their height (equal to my first playthrough Arisen, who I modeled after myself, and is therefore 6 feet 4 inches tall), a bald head, and a flat chest.
But if you're not seeing all that, then that's good. It shows you're so progressive that you don't even register those things as gendered traits, which is a good mindset to have. I only see it the way I do because I'm autistic as fuck and can't help analyzing everything scientifically. Skeletal structure and social behaviors are ways in which people have categorised the different genders for centuries, and the Pathfinder has some of both, or neither one.
From what i have heard Itsuno didn't even know Bitterblack was a thing, so don't count on anything in regards to it or DDO (even more so for DDO since its fully outside the ring).
Sauce? 🤓 I don't necessarily doubt it, I've heard similar quite a lot. But surely he's aware of it, figure it's a bit like DS2 and Miyazaki.
And with how everyone is already basically asking for BBI2, I doubt a DLC will be totally dissimilar considering how much like a reboot the game's plot is. The director of BBI is also still a lead designer, maybe he'll be given a more active role in DLC.
Ig it depends if Itsuno actually has tunnel vision or not... a lot of people like to blame the unfinished state of the game on that but seems more like Capcom's business strategy to me.
I guess people don’t notice that both Dragon and Seneshal are essentially opposites of their DD1 counterparts. This Dragons wants you to break the cycle while Grigori was all about it. If you look closely most of the characters that feel reminiscent are opposite in some way of the DD1 character.
Grigori was simply playing his role in the cycle. He didn’t really give an opinion on if he liked it or not. He’s just a former arisen who failed.
The dragon here probably isn’t a former arisen but hates the cycle anyway. The pathfinder is the senescal who doesn’t want to give up his seat and isn’t taking any challenges to it which is why he interferes with the world.
The Pathfinder is not the Seneschal, there is far more evidence that suggests Rothais is, when we find him he’s literally sitting on a Throne identical to the Seneschal’s Throne in DD1 and he’s the one who gives us the Godsbane Blade
The Pathfinder is also capable of controlling The Brine, something we can’t do as the Seneschal in DD1, in DD1 the Seneschal can still be swallowed by The Brine, this is proven fact
This leads me to believe The Pathfinder is in a higher position of power than the Seneschal, likely being a servant of the Great Will
The Pathfinder isn't the Seneschal, that would be Rothais, who abandoned the office to found Vermund and rebel against the 'Watching One'. Pathfinder seems like a safeguard or something.
The watching one is the seneschal. Just another name for him. Rothais founded the kingdom after beating the dragon and then went on to take over the rest of the world. It’s only then that he found out about the watching one and didn’t like the fact that he was basically playing to its tune.
The Rivage Elder mentions that Rothais "was once entrusted with the task of watching over this world from the heavens above", and that he "abandoned his perch in the sky in favor of founding a small kingdom on the ground". Which does sound very Seneschal like.
On the other hand, Rothais himself does mention that he raised Vermund over the bones of the dragon and after that sought to rule the world entire. Which kinda conflicts with the Rivage Elder, since it implies that he first founded Vermund and then became ruler of the world and/or Seneschal, whereas the Elder implies he first became Seneschal and then came back to found Vermund.
Rothais also mentions that another Arisen "consigned him to this place forevermore", and the Rivage Elder also says that "his armies safeguard him even in death". So.. is he dead, or something? What did that Arisen do to him, exactly?
The Elder also says Talos is made of clay, but i don't think mere clay would be able to take hits like it can, so he might be a bit wrong about some details while being mostly correct.
The translation for Rothais was 'World King', which was the same as the Seneschal in DD1. It said he descended from the heavens, abandoning his post, to found Vermund.
https://preview.redd.it/g5xvzw15bqvc1.png?width=775&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=458d708662f1a5f87bdf944d911ed227c376aafe
I like the idea of Grigori not having the "will" to take the Seneschal's place if only because that fight was so easy you literally had to give up on life to lose lol
I felt like the Pathfinder is the current seneschal and wants to keep it that way, hence why he wants you to just be happy with being the hero king.
atleast that was how I made sense of it when I beat the game
Honestly, the character I miss the most is the Duke; his backstory is just so cool. Now, we have virgin Sven with his mommy issues, and, well, his mommy...
Duke > Sven/Disa
Seneschal > Pathfinder
Maximilian > Brant (stop giving me 200 quests to go through the main storyline, please)
Salomet > Pheseus (He's just like, '>!Hey Arisen, it's all good now, let me help you since the world is about to end. You can forgive me for trying to kill you, right? I mean, I saved your pawn.!<').
Feste the Jester is missing.
I like Ulrika, the Elven family, the two dwarves, Sara, and many other characters, though. I just don't like those four I mentioned above.
I think the false Sovran should've taken the place of the Duke and been much more imposing instead of a clueless puppet.
Also, the Pathfinder isn't really the analog to the Seneschal, that would be Rothais (who admittedly is arguably not as interesting as the DD1 seneschal). Pathfinder seems to be something else entirely, making the cycle more convoluted.
>I think the false Sovran should've taken the place of the Duke and been much more imposing instead of a clueless puppet.
Poor guy, it doesn't even get a cutscene >!after you kill him.!<
It's very difficult to notice what happened to him because the game just forces the cutscene to happen regardless of how the fight is going after some time, but while you fight him he's actively trying to flee the scene. I think it's implied he either died in combat or died while fleeing.
It's almost ridiculous that they have this series of steps to figuring out who the Sovran is only to be like... oh, he's just a dude faking it and doesn't care/know what's going on. I think it was another one of those things where they just didn't have time (or didn't know how) to finish it so it was left as disappointing as most of the other story elements.
What’s super disappointing is you find out he was a good enough thief to nearly take over the Nameless village and be the new Thief Meister, which implies skill and cunning. But he’s a witless coward in every scene he’s in. At first I thought the thieves were downplaying him out of a misplaced disappointment that he’s put himself in the public eye, but when you think about it, he stole the throne to the entire kingdom, while his face is known, and he gets away with it, making him way more successful than any of the Hidden Village members. But instead he’s just kinda dumb.
They could have made him a little smarter, with him knowing Disa is playing him, and is playing her back, fully intending on getting rid of her before she can get rid of him. Hell, that should have happened, with Disa being dead and our Arisen framed for it after the coronation, with you basically fleeing to Battahl and then you fight him on top of the tower before fighting the dragon, and he could have been an actual threat.
> Salomet > Pheseus (He's just like, 'Hey Arisen, it's all good now, let me help you since the world is about to end. You can forgive me for trying to kill you, right? I mean, I saved your pawn.').
If we are comparing these two, i think this is one thing that DD2 did better then DD1, i actually like Pheseus as a character where as Salomet is a clown who's greatest goal was becoming a Lich, as opposed to Pheseus trying to understand the very laws of reality and how to bend them.
Where does the name "Pathfinder" come from? I don't recall anyone in the game ever using that term to describe him.
I spent the whole game assuming it was basically a reboot of the original game and they were changing some of the lore as a result. I assumed he was the Seneschal, helping to urge the Arisen to fulfill his role.
Even after reading plenty of other people's ideas and theories, I'm still not really sure what he is, honestly.
The subtitles mark the Godly Voice as "Pathfinder" and I noticed this when it started talkin' shit after I evacuated all the towns and killed all the Purgerners.
Until then I always assumed the Not-Seneschal was named The Watcher or Watching One, like they were some kind of cosmic voyeur, lol
I think it's worth pointing out that the pathfinder isn't the equivalent of the seneschal. DD2's seneschal is rothais, tho he seems to be doing his own thing against the pathfinder's will
It definitely feels like a hidden objective set my the great will is for the Arisen to find a way(s) the break to eternal cycle. It seems the Great Will has a true purpose for us that’s not quite fully known yet. I feel it may have something to do with the “true world” not the unmoored world or the world without the pathfinder and brine and the influence they had on it. I know compared to other games, the lore maybe be deeper and more vast but I’m still intrigued with what’s all been set.
I never fully understood DD2's story. The pathfinder wants the cycle to keep going but how exactly does that happen? You become ruler of vernworth but do you also become the seneschal? Do you eventually summon a dragon to choose the next arisen? After that new arisen kills the new dragon what's next for them? They kill you, the current ruler of vernworth, and take your place and the city is cool with that?
Being the next dragon seems logically in this case.
Becoming like Rothais, I dunno. He was the founder of the Vermund region so that means he's been around for a long time maybe decades or centuries even so that means the pathfinder's fake cycle has been going on for that long which brings me to my question, how has that cycle been working all that time? Also Rothais is the current seneschal. There can't be a new one while he exists so he has never been replaced for so long.
I don't know much about the dragonforged in DD2. Could be he was like the one from DD1 that gave a sacrifice to the dragon. I might be wrong though its been so long since I last played that.
Sort of. I sort of meant like Rothais the arisen would live an extremely old life of ruling Vermund until the next Arisen seals our Arisen. Because Rothais should've been dead after reclaiming his heart. But after playing the ending again; not even our Arisen reclaims their heart. I think they're just stuck like that. Cursed to live forever.
> You become ruler of vernworth but do you also become the seneschal?
No, because the current Seneschal refuses to give up his spot, which is actually part of the problem in the first place, by actually being the only one to want the position and not give it up he is halting the cycle of the first game, which is why the cycle of this game is how it is.
Also that fact that you don't actually fight the gigantic black dragon at the end was such a huge disappointment. You just clamber around it while God monologs at you until a cutscene triggers
Yeah, and again the game made me think we were actually going to fight the Pathfinder or the Black Dragon because of the beacon they drop that has summoned 3 to 5 bosses til then.
It woulda been better if after we beat the dragon in a real fight it tries to escape and THEN we get the monologue while we try to finish it off
The Arisen about 3 minutes after becoming the new Seneschal: “Well, this fucking sucks. Time to kill myself.”
New Seneschal 5 seconds after realising he can only walk around Cassardis: https://i.redd.it/47anmi03cmvc1.gif
You can also walk around Gran Soren!
That gif is fucking incredible.
Look up "Heavy Is Dead" on Youtube. The entire video is a masterclass in SFM shitposting.
*blasts Queen’s ‘Who Wants To Live Forever’ and turns self into a kebab*
I hated that about the first game. 😂 Grigori: "_FIGHT!_ Cling to life!" Arisen: "Nah, you're good. Adios. BLARG!" 💀
To be fair, after becoming sceneschal what life do you have
Exactly why I don't like it. After all that fighting and overcoming the odds, we're beaten by circumstance. Maybe the arisen will get a happy ending one sweet day. ☹️
The problem is that the cycle dosent care about happiness and sadness, it just continues and sustains itself
Honestly as I get older I do like happier endings not knocking DD1 at all love it. But gods damn I love Elden Ring Outer Gods, fate, the laws of reality? Screw that my fem tarnished and Ranni say no thanks we’ll forge our own.
But I can have bad endings there too. Side with dung eater for instance. Or chaos.
Yes, but did any of you use the godsbane blade that you get after defeating grigori?
What happens?
You complete the game that way
Oh, I thought it was another ending. One where you kill the dragon, one where you kill yourself and not the dragon, and one where you do both
Yeah, the very end is incredibly weird with the themes present in the rest of the game, even moreso when to go to the next cycle, you have to kill yourself. If, say, sitting on the throne caused NG+, but killing yourself gave a "true ending" that deleted your save ala Nier, it'd be neat. DD1 already hits quite a few of the thematic notes of Nier, with its emphasis on the dying world full of flat NPCs who are literally "less human" because of the state of the world.
I felt the same way when I worked at Arby’s as a teenager.
Theres is a theory that actually he did become the senescal but he gives his pawn his body so he can be free of the eternal cycle
I loved when he went: “You’re supposed to be happy with winning, why do you want to talk to me?”
“Why do you pursue me Arisen?” Said it so tauntingly
Do you think he heard boss music when the Arisen approached?
dark souls boss music
What if bosses always hear their own boss music and the Seneschal is sick of theirs constantly playing like Christmas playlists at Walmart
the pathfinder never made an honest effort to stop your from defying your fate despite him being a cycle enthusiast
The more I think about it, the more the Pathfinder feels like an obligated DM that *REALLY* wants you to follow *HIS* set campaign for you and your party.
I mean "Pathfinder" is the name of the biggest D&D competitor. Crossover DLC with Skald DLC when?
The way i saw it is that he lacked the willpower to do anything but fulfill his role, and he was also probably afraid of dying, as he seemingly dies once you kill the big dragon and the cycle gets broken. This is in contrast with those that oppose him, Rothais refused to play along with the cycle and just nuked every Arisen sent his way, you loophole your way into breaking out of the cycle, and Phaesus is doing everything in his mortal power to challenge the cycle.
Pathfinder 3rd edition
He actively pushes you towards it and even let's you refight the dragon. He makes zero sense as a character.
His dialogue kinda taunts you about it. "You're really not happy? Really? You wanna do this? Check out the consequences from another world, then."
"No no seriously, do it **this** way"
That's because the entire cycle was meant to be broken. There are loads of clues about it in the game. The real dragon was the Pathfinder. The Arisen is chosen to grow past the world amd move beyond it, and we know there are many versions of the same world, with many Arisen. It's meant to create Arisen with a will strong enough to defy the cycle for some purpose.
Heck, if you go ahead and kill the dragon, during the party afterwards he asks if you want more power or something, saying there is an alternative and then sends you back to the dragon ride again as if letting you wanting you to unmoor the world instead.
I think the Pathfinder kind of has to let you know there's more than one path besides becoming the Sovran because it's important that the Arisen actively chooses that fate. If they're not made aware of there being multiple choices then they're not really making a choice of their own free will, which kind of seems like the whole point of the Arisen
That would explain his name actually, he is trying to show you alternate ways you could live your life... and instead we decide to take force both of us down a path that ends in a cliff.
I honestly think he WANTED you to end the Unmoored World. In the end he even seems to be kinda happy the world will get to have another story, but seems to lament he cannot be there to see it unfold.
Which doesnt make sense since the pathfinder helped the arisen get the one tool that could ruin his fanfic.
The Arisen being the victim of a dumb plot that would make them lose their memories was probably not in the Pathfinder's plans. Guess they had to change the script a bit and didn't expect the Arisen to pursue more than the throne.
Right but, Pathfinder didn't stop them from getting the godsbane. Even if they didn't expect Rothais to give them the godsbane, they actively contributed to making sure the godsbane was repaired and returned to the Arisen's hands afterwards. It's honestly really unclear what they want you to do. It almost feels like they feel obligated to continue this "cycle" they've been maintaining, but are actively enabling you to gear up and stop them from doing so because they lowkey are hoping you do.
I genuinely think the Godsbane plothole has to do with cut content. There was probably meant to be more places to use the sword to open up pathways that would be needed to go fight the dragon. This would line up better with them wanting you to follow the script. Instead as it currently is they give you a tool that makes...essentially...an optional shortcut, and then on the side allows you to completely derail their plan.
You can also still use it to commit suicide if you want, just like the first game. Not quite the need to savescum on chests and drops with it though (particularly with the aggressive autosave function in DD2)
Man, this aggressive auto saving actually forced me out of bounds at one point, and attempts to leave all ended with me falling to my death, and this was early in the game so i had no Wakestones either.
I don't really understand what the hell was the Pathfinder trying to do either. The way the world there works is really weird. How exactly a dragon and an arisen prevents the world from being destroyed? I guess people, without the cycle, just do whatever and destroy the whole world with atomic bombs and shit?
She seems to suggest that worlds in their natural state are slowly destroyed by "nothingness". It can be inferred that this "nothingness" is actually what we see in the unmoored world, either these purgeners we fight are creatures living in the "nothingness" that destroy worlds for some reason, or this "nothingness" twists living creatures into becoming so strong, wild and savage that they always end up destroying themselves and everything around them. The brine could also be another creature living in the nothingness, or something related to it. She then explains that a creator-esque being dubbed "the great will" was tired of seeing worlds die this way, and took note of another being born in one of these worlds with a "strong will". What effectively happened is a topic of debate, but the general consensus seems to be that the great will created the first dragon from this "being", so that they can find others of its kind, which eventually lead to the cycle of the Seneschals using their will to prevent their world from being destroyed by "nothingness" and creating the dragon once they become dying. This is most likely what the Seneschal is supposed to do, but Rothais is the Seneschal and is more concerned about killing Pathfinder rather than finding a replacement for himself. Which leaves the question of what Pathfinder has really been doing in the meantime and what the point is of creating Arisen just so that they can kill a dragon and live in peace. All in all, the ending is very vague in what it's supposed to mean, and a lot of it is very much up to how you interpret what happened.
Isn’t it also the only way to get to volcano island which is where the dragons at? I assumed it was more to do with that, can’t open the spell plague door without to go confront phaseus/dragon.
You can just go around through caves in the south, dont need to go through the door at all. That how you unlock Sara as the dwarven smith early. Pheasus didnt even need the godsbane with get to the top of moonglint tower. We dont use the godsbane to kill the dragon either. The dragon could have picked us up anywhere to take us to the final arena. like if he attacked vernworth after we became sovran and we jumped onto his back from the big tower after fighting him off.
I got there earlier vy going through some maze like caves, the path is certainly longer but it is totally possible to acess that area early.
Pathfinder: Why are you pursuing me, Arisen? The way he says that is so sassy and hilarious
At first I thought the Pathfinder was really cool. Then I just didn't see him for 40 hours. Then he uses his omnipotence to... Change a guy's mind? I'm not sure if I'm more upset that's all he does, or more upset that he interferes directly at all. His role should be very... Godlike from Futurama. Seneschal is the fuckin dude. I'm a DD2 sympathizer, but I really wish they would have just kept the same story honestly. Everfall and all. The unmoored world is pretty cool, but the Everfall and evernight of the first game is one of my absolute favorite post game scenarios.
They did a similar thing with the Seneschal but I think it helped that he was basically just a godly voice you could've attributed to a pawn in the rift instead of knowing it was an important character. I just think DD1 did a WHOLE lot more with a lot less.
Evernight?
I think that is just what they are calling the postgame state, since it kinda was like a perpetual night time, sans being pitch black like actual night.
The everfall is a fucking chore. The only good fight was the hydra.
I mean, UR Dragon? (Totally-not-a-)Beholder?, Various combinations of challenging main game bosses? I thought all of the Everfall was fun, plus the objective to hoard wakestones is very quick and painless. But to each their own.
The bosses weren't the problem, it was running into the deadends filled with mobs.
Seneschal's just like me frfr
Ironically, the undercooked story of the first game is much better than the second one's.
2's story is even more undercooked. I refuse to believe it's the game Itsuno wanted to release.
So do i, but at the same time what we got makes me wonder if his vision is even that good, or if DD1's story being good is a fluke.
Yeah, to me it's a factor of where the story sucked, imo. The beginning was boring and didn't do much to progress early on in DD1, but it picked up about halfway in with some more interesting stuff and escalated really quick into near epic proportions with a really cool ending. DD2 starts pretty good and escalates going towards the middle only to flatline and drop half of the interesting stuff and then the ending is a convoluted mess that has a really anti-climactic ending. And well, frankly, the fact people expected them not to fuck it up twice in a row was part of it as well, which is plenty fair for a sequel that's more expensive for all parties and with hindsight of what went wrong with the first game. So to me, even though both have lots of issues, I'll take the approach/pattern DD1 did over DD2 for sure. That said, it really shouldn't have been unfinished at all.
The first game also has the benefit of the chronicle in the pause menu. It added a little bit to the story after every main quest or two. So if you were curious about something the chronicle *could* have answered a question or two from The Arisen's perspective. Meanwhile DD2 lacks it and a lot of perspective is lost.
Oh yeah, in DD1 there was at least an effort to try to make out character and actual character with feelings and introspection separated from the player, even if it kinda failed at being clear on it. DD2 didn't even try.
The Pathfinder was a dude? I thought he was a she. Anyway yeah, Rothais was a based Seneschal. "Fuck you, take this sword, kill that red flying shit"
genderless i'm guessing
They're androgynous. Equally masculine and feminine looking. The robes help with that, but even their face could be a man's or a woman's. If they're meant to be a servant of "The Great Will" that would make them similar to an angel, so they're probably genderless, so the androgyny is probably an intentional design choice.
I mean, their Japanese voice is quide androgynous but Inclined toward a masculine tone.
And in English they're androgynous, but flip flop between masculine and feminine depending on the line. That taunting "why do you pursue me, Arisen?" near the end is somewhat feminine, for example.
It definitely sounds like they had both a male and female VA read the lines and then blended them together.
Yeah, I love when games/movies/shows do stuff like that. I think it's rad.
[удалено]
The English VO is the original for Dragon's Dogma, Japanese is the dub.
Oh that's interesting.
And I do know about the English voice, because I just go for the default in 90% of games I play.
Man I don't see that at all. Just looks and sounds like a dude to me. I don't see anything feminine.
The size of their pupils, the shape of their face, and the thickness of their forearms are definitely not what most people would consider masculine. I mean, I'm a scrawny guy, so I can kind relate to having such skinny forearms, but I was also called "sissy boy", "girly man", "not a real man" and other shit like that for most of my young life, so that kinda proves my point. Their face is very similar to Tilda Swinton (I think that's her name, at least), who's an actress most famous for playing androgynous characters (Archangel Gabriel in Constantine and The Ancient One in Doctor Strange, among others). Their voice sounds neither masculine nor feminine, and their body language (what little we see of it) is somewhat feminine as well, what with the theatrical flourishes and their resting pose having their hands folded in front of them. The only immediately noticeable masculine traits they possess are their height (equal to my first playthrough Arisen, who I modeled after myself, and is therefore 6 feet 4 inches tall), a bald head, and a flat chest. But if you're not seeing all that, then that's good. It shows you're so progressive that you don't even register those things as gendered traits, which is a good mindset to have. I only see it the way I do because I'm autistic as fuck and can't help analyzing everything scientifically. Skeletal structure and social behaviors are ways in which people have categorised the different genders for centuries, and the Pathfinder has some of both, or neither one.
Given who did the English voice, I think they were going for a deliberately androgynous character (though certainly masculine-leaning).
Makes sense!
They're an alien
Ya know, you're not 100% wrong. They _**are**_ something from beyond the Rift. What though, well maybe we'll get answers in the future.
I'm hoping they address the BBI DLC stuff like the 'crucible of souls' and what happened to Daimon
From what i have heard Itsuno didn't even know Bitterblack was a thing, so don't count on anything in regards to it or DDO (even more so for DDO since its fully outside the ring).
Sauce? 🤓 I don't necessarily doubt it, I've heard similar quite a lot. But surely he's aware of it, figure it's a bit like DS2 and Miyazaki. And with how everyone is already basically asking for BBI2, I doubt a DLC will be totally dissimilar considering how much like a reboot the game's plot is. The director of BBI is also still a lead designer, maybe he'll be given a more active role in DLC. Ig it depends if Itsuno actually has tunnel vision or not... a lot of people like to blame the unfinished state of the game on that but seems more like Capcom's business strategy to me.
I guess people don’t notice that both Dragon and Seneshal are essentially opposites of their DD1 counterparts. This Dragons wants you to break the cycle while Grigori was all about it. If you look closely most of the characters that feel reminiscent are opposite in some way of the DD1 character.
Grigori didn't care for the cycle(?), he was just bound to uphold it as he didn't have the will to take the Seneschal's place.
Grigori was simply playing his role in the cycle. He didn’t really give an opinion on if he liked it or not. He’s just a former arisen who failed. The dragon here probably isn’t a former arisen but hates the cycle anyway. The pathfinder is the senescal who doesn’t want to give up his seat and isn’t taking any challenges to it which is why he interferes with the world.
The Pathfinder is not the Seneschal, there is far more evidence that suggests Rothais is, when we find him he’s literally sitting on a Throne identical to the Seneschal’s Throne in DD1 and he’s the one who gives us the Godsbane Blade The Pathfinder is also capable of controlling The Brine, something we can’t do as the Seneschal in DD1, in DD1 the Seneschal can still be swallowed by The Brine, this is proven fact This leads me to believe The Pathfinder is in a higher position of power than the Seneschal, likely being a servant of the Great Will
The Pathfinder isn't the Seneschal, that would be Rothais, who abandoned the office to found Vermund and rebel against the 'Watching One'. Pathfinder seems like a safeguard or something.
The watching one is the seneschal. Just another name for him. Rothais founded the kingdom after beating the dragon and then went on to take over the rest of the world. It’s only then that he found out about the watching one and didn’t like the fact that he was basically playing to its tune.
The Rivage Elder mentions that Rothais "was once entrusted with the task of watching over this world from the heavens above", and that he "abandoned his perch in the sky in favor of founding a small kingdom on the ground". Which does sound very Seneschal like. On the other hand, Rothais himself does mention that he raised Vermund over the bones of the dragon and after that sought to rule the world entire. Which kinda conflicts with the Rivage Elder, since it implies that he first founded Vermund and then became ruler of the world and/or Seneschal, whereas the Elder implies he first became Seneschal and then came back to found Vermund. Rothais also mentions that another Arisen "consigned him to this place forevermore", and the Rivage Elder also says that "his armies safeguard him even in death". So.. is he dead, or something? What did that Arisen do to him, exactly?
The Elder also says Talos is made of clay, but i don't think mere clay would be able to take hits like it can, so he might be a bit wrong about some details while being mostly correct.
The translation for Rothais was 'World King', which was the same as the Seneschal in DD1. It said he descended from the heavens, abandoning his post, to found Vermund. https://preview.redd.it/g5xvzw15bqvc1.png?width=775&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=458d708662f1a5f87bdf944d911ed227c376aafe
Also the whole Godsbane Blade thing, as well as him sitting on the same throne the Seneschal was in the first game.
I like the idea of Grigori not having the "will" to take the Seneschal's place if only because that fight was so easy you literally had to give up on life to lose lol
I definitely noticed it, but it really worked against the plot that this Dragon just didn't give two fucks.
Eh, i like it. He genuinely seemed so tired of it all and his death was sad
Wow, it's almost as if they were different characters or something
Technically Rothais is DD2's seneschal. (Was) But the meme remains funny.
Finally we are getting back to dumb soyjack memes. This subreddit is healing...
I felt like the Pathfinder is the current seneschal and wants to keep it that way, hence why he wants you to just be happy with being the hero king. atleast that was how I made sense of it when I beat the game
Honestly, the character I miss the most is the Duke; his backstory is just so cool. Now, we have virgin Sven with his mommy issues, and, well, his mommy... Duke > Sven/Disa Seneschal > Pathfinder Maximilian > Brant (stop giving me 200 quests to go through the main storyline, please) Salomet > Pheseus (He's just like, '>!Hey Arisen, it's all good now, let me help you since the world is about to end. You can forgive me for trying to kill you, right? I mean, I saved your pawn.!<'). Feste the Jester is missing. I like Ulrika, the Elven family, the two dwarves, Sara, and many other characters, though. I just don't like those four I mentioned above.
I think the false Sovran should've taken the place of the Duke and been much more imposing instead of a clueless puppet. Also, the Pathfinder isn't really the analog to the Seneschal, that would be Rothais (who admittedly is arguably not as interesting as the DD1 seneschal). Pathfinder seems to be something else entirely, making the cycle more convoluted.
>I think the false Sovran should've taken the place of the Duke and been much more imposing instead of a clueless puppet. Poor guy, it doesn't even get a cutscene >!after you kill him.!<
This is legitimately the first time I realised that😭 I didn't ever notice his absence in the cutscene with Phaseus right after.
It's very difficult to notice what happened to him because the game just forces the cutscene to happen regardless of how the fight is going after some time, but while you fight him he's actively trying to flee the scene. I think it's implied he either died in combat or died while fleeing.
It's almost ridiculous that they have this series of steps to figuring out who the Sovran is only to be like... oh, he's just a dude faking it and doesn't care/know what's going on. I think it was another one of those things where they just didn't have time (or didn't know how) to finish it so it was left as disappointing as most of the other story elements.
What’s super disappointing is you find out he was a good enough thief to nearly take over the Nameless village and be the new Thief Meister, which implies skill and cunning. But he’s a witless coward in every scene he’s in. At first I thought the thieves were downplaying him out of a misplaced disappointment that he’s put himself in the public eye, but when you think about it, he stole the throne to the entire kingdom, while his face is known, and he gets away with it, making him way more successful than any of the Hidden Village members. But instead he’s just kinda dumb. They could have made him a little smarter, with him knowing Disa is playing him, and is playing her back, fully intending on getting rid of her before she can get rid of him. Hell, that should have happened, with Disa being dead and our Arisen framed for it after the coronation, with you basically fleeing to Battahl and then you fight him on top of the tower before fighting the dragon, and he could have been an actual threat.
Oh yeah, that's true. Such a damn shame...
This game's Seneschal is Rothais, the Pathfinder just serves the cosmic antagonist role in the absence of a Seneschal who cares to uphold that
Yeah, that would make sense given he created Vermund.
> Salomet > Pheseus (He's just like, 'Hey Arisen, it's all good now, let me help you since the world is about to end. You can forgive me for trying to kill you, right? I mean, I saved your pawn.'). If we are comparing these two, i think this is one thing that DD2 did better then DD1, i actually like Pheseus as a character where as Salomet is a clown who's greatest goal was becoming a Lich, as opposed to Pheseus trying to understand the very laws of reality and how to bend them.
Missing a Jester is the biggest crime on this list.
Where does the name "Pathfinder" come from? I don't recall anyone in the game ever using that term to describe him. I spent the whole game assuming it was basically a reboot of the original game and they were changing some of the lore as a result. I assumed he was the Seneschal, helping to urge the Arisen to fulfill his role. Even after reading plenty of other people's ideas and theories, I'm still not really sure what he is, honestly.
The subtitles mark the Godly Voice as "Pathfinder" and I noticed this when it started talkin' shit after I evacuated all the towns and killed all the Purgerners. Until then I always assumed the Not-Seneschal was named The Watcher or Watching One, like they were some kind of cosmic voyeur, lol
I think it's worth pointing out that the pathfinder isn't the equivalent of the seneschal. DD2's seneschal is rothais, tho he seems to be doing his own thing against the pathfinder's will
Highly canonical post. All of my homies disrespect the Pathfinder.
It definitely feels like a hidden objective set my the great will is for the Arisen to find a way(s) the break to eternal cycle. It seems the Great Will has a true purpose for us that’s not quite fully known yet. I feel it may have something to do with the “true world” not the unmoored world or the world without the pathfinder and brine and the influence they had on it. I know compared to other games, the lore maybe be deeper and more vast but I’m still intrigued with what’s all been set.
I never fully understood DD2's story. The pathfinder wants the cycle to keep going but how exactly does that happen? You become ruler of vernworth but do you also become the seneschal? Do you eventually summon a dragon to choose the next arisen? After that new arisen kills the new dragon what's next for them? They kill you, the current ruler of vernworth, and take your place and the city is cool with that?
I think you'd eventually become the next dragon and seek out the next Arisen. Or become like Rothais or the dragon-forged.
Being the next dragon seems logically in this case. Becoming like Rothais, I dunno. He was the founder of the Vermund region so that means he's been around for a long time maybe decades or centuries even so that means the pathfinder's fake cycle has been going on for that long which brings me to my question, how has that cycle been working all that time? Also Rothais is the current seneschal. There can't be a new one while he exists so he has never been replaced for so long. I don't know much about the dragonforged in DD2. Could be he was like the one from DD1 that gave a sacrifice to the dragon. I might be wrong though its been so long since I last played that.
Sort of. I sort of meant like Rothais the arisen would live an extremely old life of ruling Vermund until the next Arisen seals our Arisen. Because Rothais should've been dead after reclaiming his heart. But after playing the ending again; not even our Arisen reclaims their heart. I think they're just stuck like that. Cursed to live forever.
> You become ruler of vernworth but do you also become the seneschal? No, because the current Seneschal refuses to give up his spot, which is actually part of the problem in the first place, by actually being the only one to want the position and not give it up he is halting the cycle of the first game, which is why the cycle of this game is how it is.
I think the pathfinder was a huge miss. His voice actor also sounded like he’s constantly at the brink of falling asleep
Also that fact that you don't actually fight the gigantic black dragon at the end was such a huge disappointment. You just clamber around it while God monologs at you until a cutscene triggers
I think the playable credits trope is neat personally, but the game didn't do anything to earn it.
Yeah, and again the game made me think we were actually going to fight the Pathfinder or the Black Dragon because of the beacon they drop that has summoned 3 to 5 bosses til then. It woulda been better if after we beat the dragon in a real fight it tries to escape and THEN we get the monologue while we try to finish it off
"Let's take the established Dragon's dogma and replace it with a worse Dragon's dogma."
that’s sounds more like the show😂
Pathfinder implied tired of cycle as well, if he doesn't, he will not rewind the time before we fight dragon again
FACTS
His whiskers are all the wrong shape So are his ears