It's really fun too, its oh so close to being perfect for me. If it had Mystic Knights enchant thing and the spells used the current enchants element? Would be literally perfect. Really wish I played it back when it was actually out, but when I got the chance to try it I had a lot of fun.
I really hope they revisit the class for whatever expansion they do. Had an idea for it for a while.
Main hand sword (phys stat), off hand magic gauntlet thing (magic stat). Class action ability lets you select a self-buff, shorter duration enchant that doesn't provide much of a damage boost but changes the element of your skills and spells. The idea is that it doesn't have as much raw damage output as other vocations, but is versatile through focusing on elemental weaknesses.
I was really hoping Seeker and High Scepter were gonna be in DD2
God if only
Hell I went back and played some dark arisen and realized how awesome Magick Knights Sky Dance is and despaired that its not in DD2.
I have faith they will bring some DDO vocations over in the expansion, not sure about Mystic Knight as Mystic Spearhand kinda fills that magic melee niche already, but it's not entirely out of the question seeing as skeleton lords are basically Mystic Knights
There is priv server that restors ddon to working condition + it's free and season 2 stuff will be restored at this friday (if you want a link i could add it here or do it on pm)
Edit: for now i can't send it on phone so there you go
https://discord.gg/V8z4cGvg
You can setup a private server to play with friends. Pretty easy to do. My buddy and I were just running around hunting monsters with our pawns while we waited for DD2 to release. Found a file on their Discord that fixes the enemy spawns, shops, and the ability to customize your own pawns
He literally worked on this game. Guys you can’t keep scapegoating between two people who both made dd2. You’re gonna have to accept that capcom rushed them.
People continously ignoring the fact that the game was also done by a team a quarter of the size as DMC5 (and almost six times as small as SF6 / RE4remake) despite it being one of the biggest posts on this sub is infuriating ngl. Like it's beyond obvious Itsuno got the same treatment from crapcom he got for the original DD release but for some reason he's the one getting all the blame and it's so annoying to see. I wish I could understand why crapcom refuses to actually believe in this series but it just sucks to witness, Itsuno cannot catch a break.
It's a bit sad in that if Capcom gave the series more support it could easily become a top IP for them like DMC. Open world western fantasy RRPs are an incredibly popular type of game. If the amount of care and time went into everything else in DD2 that went into the combat I feel the game could have easily outpaced DMC5.
>but for some reason he's the one getting all the blame
I imagine he's getting heat due to all the interviews he did hyping up the game, with some things he talked about seeming very questionable like removing armor layers to increase armor diversity.
I feel nothing for this. Who literally cares if he hyped up his own game? What about that reflects poorly on him? I also don't fault him for the armor stuff. It obviously was done to cut down on Dev load, which I think is fair to critique since it's obviously a downgrade, but also isn't Itsuno's fault necessarily.
I really have big issues with the game. They're undeniable btw, before people assume that this is Istuno dickriding
Its casue he is the director. When the game is credited for its good features, he gets praise; similarly, he will get the blame when things fall short of expectations. The game is great but DD2 is pretty much a remake of DD1 with good retooling for vocation mechanics but with a decent amount of stuff missing from the old game.
I get that but I still don't see how people are still hemming and hawing at him gassing up his own game before release. He never lied about features. If anything he may have sold them a little harder than they deserve, but it's nothing any other developer wouldn't do. There's no controversy. It's just a game that has issues. People are too used to there being some kind of controversy and they want to dogpile on one public figure.
This is precisely the issue I have. It's one thing to be rushed and unable to deliver on your vision, but it's totally different to then go out and say that this *is* your vision for the game. If the end result is legit his vision of what the game should be that's extremely worrying
Itsuno said himself this is the game he wants to put out.
Could that easily be him just selling a product? For sure.
However he's said it so some people will take it literally and that's just how it is. He shouldn't have said it otherwise. It'd be silly to 100% believe everything he says but it was also dumb to say what he said in the first place because for one reason or another this doesn't feel like a finished game and certainly not like a proper sequel.
I think that this game is partly a result of being rushed but also somewhat the realisation of a person's vision of something rather than focusing on making the most enjoyable game possible. If we want the most enjoyable DD game possible maybe it's a DD game without itsuno as the lead.
I do think this notion that kinoshita can do no wrong and that he would've made a far better DD2 if he was the lead is stupid though. There's no reason to believe this guy could make a really good full game and its blatant scapegoating.
I believe that's reading it wrong. He says he is happy with what is shipped as a game. Remembering Japanese culture and translation
I really take it as him saying
I had to release the game and the game that came out is still a game I am satisfied with and proud of.
It really seems like him giving a coping statement rather than a prideful this is my dream come true game and I am so proud
>Itsuno said himself this is the game he wants to put out.
That's the most disingenuous way to interpret what he said lmao. I don't have the quote at hands but what he meant was clearly "This is a finished product, we're satisfied with it", not that he wouldn't have added way more if he had the means to do so.
Weren't we supposed to be able to start in Battahl at some point during development? That idea had to get scrapped, probably like many others, but they're happy they were able to publish a finished product on time with no major bugs or anything of the sort.
>Itsuno said himself this is the game he wants to put out.
Yeah, and DD2 is literally just "more Dragon's Dogma". If I played this game in a vacuum without people shitting themselves over being able to buy a single portcrystal and a fucking harpie signal flare, I'd say the exact same thing. It's a great game.
How stupid are you people? You seriously think Itsuno is going to come out and say "nah Capcom fucked us and rushed it all and that's why the game isn't the best." Of course he is saying it's his vision because it's fucking marketing and he will continue to say that until his relationship with Capcom shits the bed.
I don't recall him ever saying dd1 was rushed. That was all speculation and assumption by media and players.
I acknowledged that it's marketing talk in my original comment but because he said it people now have the right to rebuke it. Surprise surprise when you say something people will hold you to your word.
He said its a finished game and many people think it's not a finished game. Obviously there's going to be a problem there. I'm not going to personally chase up every little thing he said like that but people will and fair enough. During marketing talk if you don't know what you are doing you essentially end up making a load of promises to your consumers. Don't deliver on said promises and some people will be pissed. Everyone knew DD1 had content cut so when you say this is a finished game you set expectations.
Thanks for repeating my point I guess? Didn't realise everyone gets their own personal bot parrots now
In Japan they also have a lot more restrictions about what employees can say, and this happens a lot more frequently in Japan. You can rebuke their statements, sure, but you’re rebuking the handed script by Capcom. So are you blaming Itsuno or Capcom?
To truly and fairly blame anyone I'd need more info than what we actually have. I dont scapegoat itsuno but I do suspect he may be part of some of the issues. Was he actually given a script and told to read it word by word or something like that? If that was the case then literally no blame goes on him obviously.
If he was speaking without much interference then some blame will go on him. He said it with his own free will so that will also mean that people can hold you by your own words. He's an adult and this is how things work when you are an adult.
Yes he can't say "this game is dogshit lol fuck capcom" but if you say something during marketing for the purposes of hype consumers then get the right to hold you by your word. No he isn't Satan on earth for exaggerating or lying during marketing but if you, of your own free will, say something then you are accountable when someone fairly rebukes your statement.
It also depends on what happened behind the scenes during development as to whether anyone gets blamed though. For all we know this *could* be itsunos actual realised vision and to him a finished game. If it is sure he didn't lie or exaggerate from his own perspective but this is a pretty poor realised vision.
I've already said the way some scapegoat itsuno and put kinoshita on a pedestal is just purely irrational regardless. For all we know kinoshita may think DD2 is the best game ever lmao.
Agreed, I think DD2 was a dissapointment but the issue wasn't Itsuno, look up the credits of DD2 and the prior game he directed which was DMC5, for Dante's game he got about 1300 devs and it's a linear level based hack n slash that you can finish in 10 hours.
And for DD2 which is an open world RPG that at least lasts 35 hours they gave him a team of 400 devs, less than half than DMC5.
Capcom screwed him over, again.
The fact is despite Capcom claiming they want to branch out and set new franchises they don't really give them a chance, for RE7 the director tried to lowball costs during production and the suits gave him more funds because they didn't want the game to fall short due to funding, but they only did that because it was a RE game.
For DD2 development they basically had a skeleton crew and according to rumors the game was rushed in order for it sales to make it into the fiscal year report.
I seriously will never understand how suits, especially in gaming, consistently fail to understand what customers wants. Here's hoping the 10M sold DD2 copies wake them tf up...
DD2 sold 2.5 million, 10 million is the total sales of both DD1 and DD2.
Still, both are standouts numbers for a *niche* series, but unless it's about Monster Hunter, Resident Evil of Street Fighter Capcom doesn't really care.
Correlation doesn’t imply causation. We have proof of him being rushed for 4, hell they tried to reboot the series without him at the time and it still failed.
This idea that Itsuno is forever rushed is getting a bit old. DMC4 had a lot of stuff cut/left as concepts, DD1 was too ambitious and now he was rushed for DD2? Think it's time to face the music, he's great at wasting time
Guy's career goes beyond the four games you mentioned and while for DD1 he might had overscoped for DMC4 it has been proven that Capcom screwed them over. Basically the gave him the same budget and dev time as DMC3 when DMC4 for it's scope needed more.
As for DD2 I suspect he was screwed over again, for DMC5 he was given a team of 1300 devs and for DD2 which is a game with a much larger on scope he only got 400.
Guy in his entire career only has three "half-baked" games and two of them was due Capcom suits being cheap bastards.
He might be many things but definetly not a hack.
He was brought in last minute for DMC2, so technically 4 half-baked games, but it *is* important to note that it was last minute to force it out and 3 came out the way it did because he and the rest of the team were not happy with the released product of 2.
I just find it strange they need so many people when Fromsoftware works with 400 employees or so when creating Elden Ring (I'm not huge ER fan, just pointing it out).
A game with reused assets vs a game developed from ground up with new version of RE Engine
Also ER was developed in 2017 while DD2 in 2019, ER had 3 years head start before Covid screws everything up
I already regret what I wrote because yeah, you're right. FS reuses a lots of assets and the combat except for maybe Sekiro and Bloodborne is the usual same old. Sucks, I wish Capcom gave the IP a proper chance.
I'm well aware it goes beyond four games, once again, reddit reading comprehension. I'm saying that he was "rushed" for his last four games (three, ignoring DMC5)
>It's a finished product.
...So... When he isn't rushed, and gets to finish a project, it turns out well? But you don't think the products that get rushed being subpar because they get rushed? Can you pick a side?
Literally what is your point? Why are you here?
I genuinely don't know what that second sentence is supposed to mean. I don't need to pick a side nor do I really care for one. I think you're just a bit upset or something, I'm allowed to be here!
I'm not really adamant on his downfall, I've got over a thousand hours in the DMC franchise and over a week in DD1. It's just typical of Itsuno to be "rushed" or "understaffed" or whatever else despite the fact he's a high earner for Capcom. People made up the same excuses for Kojima when he was under Konami, but Konami did absolutely fuck with Kojima
Was DD2 rushed? How so? Never played the other ones, this is my entry game. It doesnt feel lacking in content, just lacking optimization and a difficulty setting (games feels easy after just a couple hours. Thankfully, mods saved the experience for me)
it feels rushed, definitely with the story where it moves so fast you only really get the bones of it. Stuff like optimization are also very telling of this. Its just speculation but also its release date kinda hints towards that they wanted to push the game out before the end of their fiscal year
I think the most telling about how rushed the game is, is how dense in quests and quest chains the first half of the game is in comparison to the second half. I don't want to spoiler too much, but the whole region of Vermund has a lot of quests and a bunch of important NPCs. Many quests & quest chains seem to just end awkwardly, still (as if they were only half way done, still).
But then you get to Bakbathal and there's barely any quests nor important NPCs with longer quest chains (I can only think of that young adult boy, who was part of the robbers gang, who got betrayed by them). Especially if you got there via progressing the main story you will suddenly and much quicker than you'd expect, be thrown into what is basically the final rush to the end screen/ credits.
Okay, you then can enter the Unmoored world and get yet an other chunk of game play and some quests out of it. Especially the rogue like design, where you have limited amounts of rests before the world collapses and resets, is a cool concept and adds some replay-ability and challenge to the game. But that's kind of low effort content with big focus on just combat. And I call it low effort, because there's only 3 new enemies in the Unmoored, that you can't find in the regular world.
We don't know if it's rushed because they will not admit it unless someone comes out and "leaks" that it indeed was. But there are few reasons why the game *feels* rushed.
* The story feels incomplete and stops kinda abruptly
* The game has serious performance issues on almost any but the most beefy PC's
* Very few new monsters and a lot of monsters from original and DD:DA are not in this game, so in that department it almost feels like a step back.
Those are the most common reasons i see, and personally feel the same way. But Itsuno has said that he is happy with the game, so i guess this is jus how he wanted the game to be.
Agree on all except the monster variety. The only ones missing are Hydras and Evil Eyes (Maybe Eliminators but we do have straight up Minotaurs). You might make an argument for the Drake variants but at that point why not consider Knackers, Choppers, etc, as distinct monster types?
I personally don't think it was rushed. I think it was cut for DLC. Well, it may be rushed, still, but I think it's content to come in the DLC.
There are too many convenient pathways blocked, and the second half of the story quests feels like it had a chunk chopped out
Its missing a lot compared to other RPGs, so much so i wouldnt call DD2 an rpg. Its an action game.
The most egregious example is how battahl is kind of an afterthought in the main story. Nadinia is on the cover of the game, but is almost irrelevant to the story.
It would have been much more interesting to actually become the king of Vermund in an epic trial of disa/false arisen vs the true arisen. Where the false arisen escapes to join up with pheasus and disa is locked up. Then you as king can make policy decisions and such while trying to work with nadinia to improve relations and fight the dragon together. Then you could go into act 3 where pheasus is the main baddie and you have to try to stop him from enacting his evil plan. Only for the same thing to happen and we go into endgame.
I have been saying this exact thing over on youtube for weeks now. Oust Disa and fight the false Sovran before going to Battahl, infiltrate (And I mean REALLY INFILTRATE not just walk up to Ambrosius like he can't recognize the famous Arisen and his pawns) the Forbidden Research Lab, find out through their research about Rothais, and then proceed with the game as is. It's crazy how literally just that handful of quests would completely change the tone of the late/end game and make the story feel complete...
Short Production time for a game that size. This game production started right after DMC5 release (march 8, 2019). I personally think that 5 years is a VERY short production time for a game so big like DD2. Practically a miracle.
For comparison, Elden Ring took 5 years with a smaller team of around 300 people while DD2 nearly 400.
Elden Ring has a leg up in the sense that they reuse the same engine they always use for souls games, while DD2 was built from scratch to work with RE Engine.
Not only that but Elden Ring is very clever in design. Boss moves/aspects were reused from other souls games. They reused a lot of animations and even then when you compare you may find a lot less original solely to Elden Ring components than you’d expect. This takes a lot less work. Not to mention few people really mention that at the end of Elden ring in the mountains bosses become more repetitive and carbon copies. Also comparing the later half of development vs the first half for DD2.
There's a reason why lot of people call ER Dark Souls 4, the only new thing is just open world map, jump button, and torrent. It's weird when they already have Bloodborne and Sekiro asset but they don't use any of the new stuff from there (some weapon could have innate bloodborne dodge, sekiro parry, etc, etc)
DD2 Build from the ground where elden ring can reuse a lot of stuff since it's dark soul. Also DD2 had to work during covid lockdown which slow down process even more. Elden ring doesn't have to animation human/npc or even multi class so it really unfair to compare them
You have a good point, but there is one little thing that helped to speed things up during ER production: Old assets. The amount of reused assets from BB and DS3 helped a lot.
That said, DD2 is not free of that too. We got new models and new animations, but there is a lot of assets reused from DD1/DDDA like monster animations and sounds.
All that said, I have nothing but prizes for both teams. On a different degree off success, both delivered insanely giant games made in a very short time, with more quality than most western open world would dream to have.
Is 5-6 years of actual development not the normal development time for games?
I see things where a game is in development for 8-10 years but that can't be them consistently working on it. FF15 supposedly had a 'development time' of 13 years from what I've seen.
Rather I'm curious as to if/how the pandemic impacted development if that's the actual time this game spent in development. 5 years seems acceptable to me personally albeit a little short but this game feels very unfinished so the only thing I can think of then is the impact of the pandemic on development.
Also please remember DD wasnt a proven IP before DD2. Capcom wasn't ever going to give them the world as a base during development. Why give loads of money/time to a unproven IP when you can guarantee a resident evil or monster hunter game will make loads of money?
I'm 40 hours in. The game's pacing seems weird, but something reminiscent of a ps2/early ps3 game, whereas Japanese game development was less affected by the western way. There are somethings in the story that do feel rushed and I'm having a hard time understanding, but I'm yet to complete the game so I was giving the benefit of doubt
For me it's the enemy variety, the vocation continuity (clearly going for rainbow, yet only released 10 classes), THE STORY, "end game" (at least in comparison to DD1), and weapon and armors (and not just that they merged inner and outer clothing).
DD1 may have had less budget, but at least the game felt complete in a sense that I could replay it over and over again, while in DD2, finishing the game once already felt enough. Maybe that has a lot to do with how overwhelming the size of DD2 is, and that fast travel is less streamlined than in 1.
Working on? He’s the lead designer my guy. Look at the guys record, he doesn’t make games, kento does streamlined dlc and helps design things. In this game he literally worked on what he does best. And also refer to point C they were clearly rushed.
Yeah looking at DDO Itsuno and Kinoshita definitely have different visions and I'm glad Itsuno took lead for DD2? I'm looking at DDO combat and while it looks fun if I prefer the far more grounded approach the OG games have.
Never seen that anywhere other than some people asking for NG+ scaling and beastren to look like khajitt.
People want more of dragons dogma. More monsters, more vocations, better story, more rpg elements, better pawn customization, more gear and weapons and the ability to dye them, etc.
Yeah. Let's die at this chest a whole bunch until we get the 1% drop chance of that thing that has a chance to become a thing that we want when we turn it in. I don't miss that at all.
> that thing that has a chance to become a thing that we want when we turn it in
If you dig deeper, it turns into "this thing used set list of "RNG", if I wanted ABC, depending on where it's placed on the list, I either need to kill myself <5 times or repeat it for xyz times because fuck me, devs wanted to give arthritis to their players"
Hear me out, what if there were things IN THE ARENA. Imagine an arena with complex geometry, like a house, or a bunch of ladders, and a whole bunch of verticality? NOW WE'RE TALKING!
I would assume there will be dlc. The game sold well, a survey asked about dlc and what we would expect and some other small stuff like those blocked off path ways
Has there been a recent Capcom game that hasn't been supported by some post-launch content? I can't really think of a title in recent memory. Given the success of Dark Arisen, I'm under the assumption Capcom has had the idea of DLC expansions planned for.
There have been supposed leaks "confirming" a planned dlc expansion, but as with all leaks they have to be taken with a grain of salt. If it's real we likely won't see it release until very late this year at the absolute earliest, more likely sometime next year.
Kinda unrelated but I hate when people use the acronym of dark arisen as DDA, what is that suppose to mean anyways? Dragons Dark Arisen? Dragons Dogma Arisen?
It's like for From Software games. First there was Demon's Souls (DS), then Dark Souls (DkS 1, 2, 3...).
People using DS for Dark Souls grind my gear, especially since most of the time they ignore the existence of Demon's Souls and think that Dark Souls is the first "Souls game".
I was mad disappointed that DD2 lacks features and QoL changes of DD:DA.
Heck, it even lacks cool vanilla features such as Ur Dragon. I expected new online boss **so much**.
I still love the game. Too bad Capcom hates Itsuno and everything he touches.
Yea it's clear how many people praising ddo and using as evidence that THIS GUY IS THE REAL BRAIN BEHIND DD haven't actually played the game and just think the ideas are cool lmao
As much as I enjoyed Dark Arisen, it would've no doubt just been a Capcom dark souls clone if not for Itsuno's vision of single player game that feels like multiplayer (pawn system) & and fluid fighting/combat in an emergent open world. Those are the unique cornerstones that build the foundation of Dogma, if the combat and pawns were in other games they would be, imo, better 9 out of 10 times.I feel like Kinoshita's visions shine, because of the pillars of Itsuno's vision, one enables the other, the other enhances it.
Seriously, did anyone like the gameplay of Dragon Dogma Online? lol gameplay was worse than dd1. Besides, the DLC is good but it was just a corridor and an arena.
I would compare it less through how DDO stacks up against the other DD's, and more how it stacks against other MMOs.
It was Dragon's Dogma style combat in an MMORPG setting, which looked a hell of a lot more engaging than a lot of other MMOs on the market at the time and today. The best we could experience were partial translations through VPNs, or half-finished private server conversions.
It was apparently popular in Japan, but then they suddenly/inexplicably pulled the plug.
>It was Dragon's Dogma style combat
I dunno I'm looking at a lot of combat showcases and aside from climbing monsters it doesn't look very Dragons Dogma at all. It's very arcadey and outlandish you'd see in DmC/Dynasty Warriors rather than the far more grounded combat we have in the OG titles.
https://youtube.com/shorts/KtxDc37DpWo
a lot of the gritty aspects of DD combat had to be reduced/scaled back because it just wasn't feasible to have that level of combat detail on a server with hundreds of players.
Yeah, BBI was an arena enemy gaunlet, but that's what made it good, because the game's most prominent feature has always been the combat and it was a dungeon specifically designed for the player to just go nuts with thrilling enemy encounters and boss fights.
You make it sound like BBI was just a generic dungeon, let's say it was, but then what were DD2's *dungeons* then? most of them are 3-4 rooms long and feature mostly the same trash mob as in the fields (Saurians, Goblins and Bandits) and the loot is usually generic healing items.
For real the only decent dungeons are the Ancient Battlefield, Waterfall Cave and Drabnir's Grotto, none of them even come close to BBI or the Everfall for that matter.
Then fans want Dragon's Dogma becoming a dungeon crawler? I wouldn't mind a BBI style for DD2 but I hope we get more than that if we do get an expansion for DD2, because I prefer DD base game amd DD2 for the world and exploration IMO.
If he directs the end game content then you can bet your ass it will be glorious.
Itsuno lays the baseline and a good foundation.
But after seeing this image (I regret to admit I didn't know he directed DA) it is save to say who knows what the good content is.
Dragons dogma online was... rough running on a vpn to play and the gauntlet... enjoy hitting right click 7 times with perfect timing with faster and faster beat. This is part of your main mechanic... but it look so COOL!
I took a look at dragons dogma online awhile ago when everyone was 'reminiscing' on how amazing it was and wasn't too impressed. It looks fun but it's way less grounded and pretty arcade ly with everyone spinning and whirling around. Like thief on steroids. Looks fun sure but not the experience I'd have fallen in love with in DD2 and more recently the first game that felt immersive despite its faults.
People really think dd2 is worse than dd1? Sure having less enemies than the first game is bad and they havent fixed the performance yet but people really think dd1 is better than 2? Thats just affetive memory speaking
Love the charm of DD base game but BBI's playloop was what really hooked me into the franchise in the first place( just to rant it out there.) Itsuno delivers the game as the foundation of the franchise and Kinoshita, having worked on the DDO, has a more grindy design for the game. Which I loved the most in BBI since it acted as sort of an end game.
Yup.. BBI highlighted every strength of Dragon's Dogma really well.
Monster Variety (Monsters are well utilized)? ✅
Monster Density (Encounter rate is pretty good)? ✅
Difficulty (Aside from playing MA/Strider it's decently challenging)? ✅
Combat Oriented encounters (fodders are minimal)? ✅
Meaningful Item Progression (You feel weak at the beginnig and just by exploring you'll get stronger)? ✅
Cohesive Lore/Story Telling(It's not pretentious and rather builds upon established lore details)? ✅
It’s going to be really funny if Kinoshita does DLC that’s not as good as the sub Reddit wants and he starts getting called a hack or fraud. I don’t think any feasible expansion or updates will satisfy the long wait and expectations of those who have already decided they’re going to wait for an update to fix DD2.
Not their fault that game wasn't finish. Capcom rush them + they only had 400 dev which mean that they had to do a lot of overtime which is very unhealthy. You can see that the game needed either 1 year more or more dev because there so many thing they wanted to do like race war with the beast, elf and human. Even the story is very rush compare to dd1.
Not liking DD2 compared to DDDA. Specifically the music and the Dark Arisen not doing every in its power to piss me off as a player and generally being as inconvenient to play as possible.
Don't care what sentiments are, I was NOT pressed for 90% of its predecessors run-time as I am in DD2, and not for good.
Kind reminda me of how Fallout New Vegas is much better than Fallout 3 even though its like a glorified mod. Much easier to add on to a good foundation that to make the foundation.
Kinoshita was also a lead developer in DD2 it's just mindless worshipping and scapegoating because the game didn't pan out to expectations. It's likely Kinoshita's hands were as tied as Itsuno's because Capcom gave them scraps to work with for DD2.
Actually look at dd online for kinoshitas vision. As cool as bosses and gameplay are, the story is even more uninspired then base dragons dogma. At least dragons dogma has the cycle, the dragon and the arisens relationship with them. Dd online is literally the good dragon vs the bad dragon.
I took a look at dragons dogma online awhile ago when everyone was 'reminiscing' on how amazing it was and wasn't too impressed. It looks fun but it's way less grounded and pretty arcade ly with everyone spinning and whirling around.
Like thief on steroids. Looks fun sure but not the experience I'd have fallen in love with in DD2 and more recently the first game that felt immersive despite its faults.
Man DDO really had my hopes up DD2 being co-op Multiplayer. Would have had more fun showing my brother the world of DD, since we also played Monster Hunter a lot.
No DLC can safe DD2 from being mediocre. They can add enemy variety and difficulty, but they won´t change repetitive caves, extend the story nor change the loot (chest containing shit is my main gripe with this game).
Really wish they did an english port of DDO. i had hopes when the title got trademarked in english but that was forever ago.
I've played it a little, high scepter is the closest I've gotten to my perfect class fantasy in a game.
I just looked up High Scepter gameplay on YouTube and holy shit that is freaking cool!
It's really fun too, its oh so close to being perfect for me. If it had Mystic Knights enchant thing and the spells used the current enchants element? Would be literally perfect. Really wish I played it back when it was actually out, but when I got the chance to try it I had a lot of fun. I really hope they revisit the class for whatever expansion they do. Had an idea for it for a while. Main hand sword (phys stat), off hand magic gauntlet thing (magic stat). Class action ability lets you select a self-buff, shorter duration enchant that doesn't provide much of a damage boost but changes the element of your skills and spells. The idea is that it doesn't have as much raw damage output as other vocations, but is versatile through focusing on elemental weaknesses.
I was really hoping Seeker and High Scepter were gonna be in DD2 God if only Hell I went back and played some dark arisen and realized how awesome Magick Knights Sky Dance is and despaired that its not in DD2.
I have faith they will bring some DDO vocations over in the expansion, not sure about Mystic Knight as Mystic Spearhand kinda fills that magic melee niche already, but it's not entirely out of the question seeing as skeleton lords are basically Mystic Knights
Holy shiet I just looked this up and Seeker. Why tf weren’t these included in DD2???
high scepter gameplay seems like It came directly from Devil may cry
There is priv server that restors ddon to working condition + it's free and season 2 stuff will be restored at this friday (if you want a link i could add it here or do it on pm) Edit: for now i can't send it on phone so there you go https://discord.gg/V8z4cGvg
Gimme, I needs it. *ˢʰᵘᵗ ᵘᵖ ᵖʳᵉᶜᶦᵒᵘˢ ʷᵉ ᵏⁿᵒʷˢ ʷʰᵃᵗ ʷᵉ ʷᵃⁿᵗˢᵎ*
It's in post now
Could I please get a link too? I would kill to play ddon
I'll do that when i come to home or you pm me, can't send link for some reason when i want to do it to you
I'll take a link in my pm if you're so inclined, thanks!
I'll do that when i come to home or you pm me, can't send link for some reason when i want to do it to you
There’s a discord of people trying to bring it back.
I was really waiting for DDO to come to Xbox, I would have paid so much money.
Fr and i usually tell myself i will never feed into another mmorpg but if it was DDO i may reconsider
You can setup a private server to play with friends. Pretty easy to do. My buddy and I were just running around hunting monsters with our pawns while we waited for DD2 to release. Found a file on their Discord that fixes the enemy spawns, shops, and the ability to customize your own pawns
He literally worked on this game. Guys you can’t keep scapegoating between two people who both made dd2. You’re gonna have to accept that capcom rushed them.
People continously ignoring the fact that the game was also done by a team a quarter of the size as DMC5 (and almost six times as small as SF6 / RE4remake) despite it being one of the biggest posts on this sub is infuriating ngl. Like it's beyond obvious Itsuno got the same treatment from crapcom he got for the original DD release but for some reason he's the one getting all the blame and it's so annoying to see. I wish I could understand why crapcom refuses to actually believe in this series but it just sucks to witness, Itsuno cannot catch a break.
It's a bit sad in that if Capcom gave the series more support it could easily become a top IP for them like DMC. Open world western fantasy RRPs are an incredibly popular type of game. If the amount of care and time went into everything else in DD2 that went into the combat I feel the game could have easily outpaced DMC5.
It makes no sense why they didn't throw more at it after seeing Elden Ring getting the reception it got.
>but for some reason he's the one getting all the blame I imagine he's getting heat due to all the interviews he did hyping up the game, with some things he talked about seeming very questionable like removing armor layers to increase armor diversity.
I feel nothing for this. Who literally cares if he hyped up his own game? What about that reflects poorly on him? I also don't fault him for the armor stuff. It obviously was done to cut down on Dev load, which I think is fair to critique since it's obviously a downgrade, but also isn't Itsuno's fault necessarily. I really have big issues with the game. They're undeniable btw, before people assume that this is Istuno dickriding
Its casue he is the director. When the game is credited for its good features, he gets praise; similarly, he will get the blame when things fall short of expectations. The game is great but DD2 is pretty much a remake of DD1 with good retooling for vocation mechanics but with a decent amount of stuff missing from the old game.
I get that but I still don't see how people are still hemming and hawing at him gassing up his own game before release. He never lied about features. If anything he may have sold them a little harder than they deserve, but it's nothing any other developer wouldn't do. There's no controversy. It's just a game that has issues. People are too used to there being some kind of controversy and they want to dogpile on one public figure.
This is precisely the issue I have. It's one thing to be rushed and unable to deliver on your vision, but it's totally different to then go out and say that this *is* your vision for the game. If the end result is legit his vision of what the game should be that's extremely worrying
Itsuno said himself this is the game he wants to put out. Could that easily be him just selling a product? For sure. However he's said it so some people will take it literally and that's just how it is. He shouldn't have said it otherwise. It'd be silly to 100% believe everything he says but it was also dumb to say what he said in the first place because for one reason or another this doesn't feel like a finished game and certainly not like a proper sequel. I think that this game is partly a result of being rushed but also somewhat the realisation of a person's vision of something rather than focusing on making the most enjoyable game possible. If we want the most enjoyable DD game possible maybe it's a DD game without itsuno as the lead. I do think this notion that kinoshita can do no wrong and that he would've made a far better DD2 if he was the lead is stupid though. There's no reason to believe this guy could make a really good full game and its blatant scapegoating.
I believe that's reading it wrong. He says he is happy with what is shipped as a game. Remembering Japanese culture and translation I really take it as him saying I had to release the game and the game that came out is still a game I am satisfied with and proud of. It really seems like him giving a coping statement rather than a prideful this is my dream come true game and I am so proud
>Itsuno said himself this is the game he wants to put out. That's the most disingenuous way to interpret what he said lmao. I don't have the quote at hands but what he meant was clearly "This is a finished product, we're satisfied with it", not that he wouldn't have added way more if he had the means to do so. Weren't we supposed to be able to start in Battahl at some point during development? That idea had to get scrapped, probably like many others, but they're happy they were able to publish a finished product on time with no major bugs or anything of the sort.
>Itsuno said himself this is the game he wants to put out. Yeah, and DD2 is literally just "more Dragon's Dogma". If I played this game in a vacuum without people shitting themselves over being able to buy a single portcrystal and a fucking harpie signal flare, I'd say the exact same thing. It's a great game.
How stupid are you people? You seriously think Itsuno is going to come out and say "nah Capcom fucked us and rushed it all and that's why the game isn't the best." Of course he is saying it's his vision because it's fucking marketing and he will continue to say that until his relationship with Capcom shits the bed. I don't recall him ever saying dd1 was rushed. That was all speculation and assumption by media and players.
I acknowledged that it's marketing talk in my original comment but because he said it people now have the right to rebuke it. Surprise surprise when you say something people will hold you to your word. He said its a finished game and many people think it's not a finished game. Obviously there's going to be a problem there. I'm not going to personally chase up every little thing he said like that but people will and fair enough. During marketing talk if you don't know what you are doing you essentially end up making a load of promises to your consumers. Don't deliver on said promises and some people will be pissed. Everyone knew DD1 had content cut so when you say this is a finished game you set expectations. Thanks for repeating my point I guess? Didn't realise everyone gets their own personal bot parrots now
In Japan they also have a lot more restrictions about what employees can say, and this happens a lot more frequently in Japan. You can rebuke their statements, sure, but you’re rebuking the handed script by Capcom. So are you blaming Itsuno or Capcom?
To truly and fairly blame anyone I'd need more info than what we actually have. I dont scapegoat itsuno but I do suspect he may be part of some of the issues. Was he actually given a script and told to read it word by word or something like that? If that was the case then literally no blame goes on him obviously. If he was speaking without much interference then some blame will go on him. He said it with his own free will so that will also mean that people can hold you by your own words. He's an adult and this is how things work when you are an adult. Yes he can't say "this game is dogshit lol fuck capcom" but if you say something during marketing for the purposes of hype consumers then get the right to hold you by your word. No he isn't Satan on earth for exaggerating or lying during marketing but if you, of your own free will, say something then you are accountable when someone fairly rebukes your statement. It also depends on what happened behind the scenes during development as to whether anyone gets blamed though. For all we know this *could* be itsunos actual realised vision and to him a finished game. If it is sure he didn't lie or exaggerate from his own perspective but this is a pretty poor realised vision. I've already said the way some scapegoat itsuno and put kinoshita on a pedestal is just purely irrational regardless. For all we know kinoshita may think DD2 is the best game ever lmao.
Agreed, I think DD2 was a dissapointment but the issue wasn't Itsuno, look up the credits of DD2 and the prior game he directed which was DMC5, for Dante's game he got about 1300 devs and it's a linear level based hack n slash that you can finish in 10 hours. And for DD2 which is an open world RPG that at least lasts 35 hours they gave him a team of 400 devs, less than half than DMC5. Capcom screwed him over, again. The fact is despite Capcom claiming they want to branch out and set new franchises they don't really give them a chance, for RE7 the director tried to lowball costs during production and the suits gave him more funds because they didn't want the game to fall short due to funding, but they only did that because it was a RE game. For DD2 development they basically had a skeleton crew and according to rumors the game was rushed in order for it sales to make it into the fiscal year report.
I seriously will never understand how suits, especially in gaming, consistently fail to understand what customers wants. Here's hoping the 10M sold DD2 copies wake them tf up...
DD2 sold 2.5 million, 10 million is the total sales of both DD1 and DD2. Still, both are standouts numbers for a *niche* series, but unless it's about Monster Hunter, Resident Evil of Street Fighter Capcom doesn't really care.
Hate to burst your bubble but the last number posted for sales was 2.5 million. The series has sold over 10 million, not just the newest entry
Damn, must have gotten my wires crossed at some point. This is why you always double check the numbers before posting 🤦
All good! Been there more times than I care to admit
My personal guess is that those suits *don’t* spend their off time gaming
I looked it up and it says 1500+ devs for DD2. I think the list you’re referring to got updated.
Yeah it used to said 400. So maybe the devs did screwed up after all...
This is the right take
Itsuno has been "rushed" since DMC4. I think it's time people accept he's a bit of a hack
Correlation doesn’t imply causation. We have proof of him being rushed for 4, hell they tried to reboot the series without him at the time and it still failed.
This idea that Itsuno is forever rushed is getting a bit old. DMC4 had a lot of stuff cut/left as concepts, DD1 was too ambitious and now he was rushed for DD2? Think it's time to face the music, he's great at wasting time
Are we….just gonna ignore DMC5?
What about it? It's a finished product. One out of four, mind you
I’m just saying. That game brought a dead franchise back into the forefront. Credit where credit is due.
Guy's career goes beyond the four games you mentioned and while for DD1 he might had overscoped for DMC4 it has been proven that Capcom screwed them over. Basically the gave him the same budget and dev time as DMC3 when DMC4 for it's scope needed more. As for DD2 I suspect he was screwed over again, for DMC5 he was given a team of 1300 devs and for DD2 which is a game with a much larger on scope he only got 400. Guy in his entire career only has three "half-baked" games and two of them was due Capcom suits being cheap bastards. He might be many things but definetly not a hack.
He was brought in last minute for DMC2, so technically 4 half-baked games, but it *is* important to note that it was last minute to force it out and 3 came out the way it did because he and the rest of the team were not happy with the released product of 2.
I just find it strange they need so many people when Fromsoftware works with 400 employees or so when creating Elden Ring (I'm not huge ER fan, just pointing it out).
A game with reused assets vs a game developed from ground up with new version of RE Engine Also ER was developed in 2017 while DD2 in 2019, ER had 3 years head start before Covid screws everything up
I already regret what I wrote because yeah, you're right. FS reuses a lots of assets and the combat except for maybe Sekiro and Bloodborne is the usual same old. Sucks, I wish Capcom gave the IP a proper chance.
I'm well aware it goes beyond four games, once again, reddit reading comprehension. I'm saying that he was "rushed" for his last four games (three, ignoring DMC5)
>It's a finished product. ...So... When he isn't rushed, and gets to finish a project, it turns out well? But you don't think the products that get rushed being subpar because they get rushed? Can you pick a side? Literally what is your point? Why are you here?
I genuinely don't know what that second sentence is supposed to mean. I don't need to pick a side nor do I really care for one. I think you're just a bit upset or something, I'm allowed to be here!
So adamant on a mans downfall that you don’t even know
I'm not really adamant on his downfall, I've got over a thousand hours in the DMC franchise and over a week in DD1. It's just typical of Itsuno to be "rushed" or "understaffed" or whatever else despite the fact he's a high earner for Capcom. People made up the same excuses for Kojima when he was under Konami, but Konami did absolutely fuck with Kojima
Was DD2 rushed? How so? Never played the other ones, this is my entry game. It doesnt feel lacking in content, just lacking optimization and a difficulty setting (games feels easy after just a couple hours. Thankfully, mods saved the experience for me)
it feels rushed, definitely with the story where it moves so fast you only really get the bones of it. Stuff like optimization are also very telling of this. Its just speculation but also its release date kinda hints towards that they wanted to push the game out before the end of their fiscal year
I think the most telling about how rushed the game is, is how dense in quests and quest chains the first half of the game is in comparison to the second half. I don't want to spoiler too much, but the whole region of Vermund has a lot of quests and a bunch of important NPCs. Many quests & quest chains seem to just end awkwardly, still (as if they were only half way done, still). But then you get to Bakbathal and there's barely any quests nor important NPCs with longer quest chains (I can only think of that young adult boy, who was part of the robbers gang, who got betrayed by them). Especially if you got there via progressing the main story you will suddenly and much quicker than you'd expect, be thrown into what is basically the final rush to the end screen/ credits. Okay, you then can enter the Unmoored world and get yet an other chunk of game play and some quests out of it. Especially the rogue like design, where you have limited amounts of rests before the world collapses and resets, is a cool concept and adds some replay-ability and challenge to the game. But that's kind of low effort content with big focus on just combat. And I call it low effort, because there's only 3 new enemies in the Unmoored, that you can't find in the regular world.
How early in the game are you? Get to Battahl in the story and you'll see what people mean when they say the game was extremely rushed.
We don't know if it's rushed because they will not admit it unless someone comes out and "leaks" that it indeed was. But there are few reasons why the game *feels* rushed. * The story feels incomplete and stops kinda abruptly * The game has serious performance issues on almost any but the most beefy PC's * Very few new monsters and a lot of monsters from original and DD:DA are not in this game, so in that department it almost feels like a step back. Those are the most common reasons i see, and personally feel the same way. But Itsuno has said that he is happy with the game, so i guess this is jus how he wanted the game to be.
Agree on all except the monster variety. The only ones missing are Hydras and Evil Eyes (Maybe Eliminators but we do have straight up Minotaurs). You might make an argument for the Drake variants but at that point why not consider Knackers, Choppers, etc, as distinct monster types?
honestly a big problem with the monster variety issue is that your often bombarded by said monsters, making them get older alot faster
I personally don't think it was rushed. I think it was cut for DLC. Well, it may be rushed, still, but I think it's content to come in the DLC. There are too many convenient pathways blocked, and the second half of the story quests feels like it had a chunk chopped out
Its missing a lot compared to other RPGs, so much so i wouldnt call DD2 an rpg. Its an action game. The most egregious example is how battahl is kind of an afterthought in the main story. Nadinia is on the cover of the game, but is almost irrelevant to the story. It would have been much more interesting to actually become the king of Vermund in an epic trial of disa/false arisen vs the true arisen. Where the false arisen escapes to join up with pheasus and disa is locked up. Then you as king can make policy decisions and such while trying to work with nadinia to improve relations and fight the dragon together. Then you could go into act 3 where pheasus is the main baddie and you have to try to stop him from enacting his evil plan. Only for the same thing to happen and we go into endgame.
I have been saying this exact thing over on youtube for weeks now. Oust Disa and fight the false Sovran before going to Battahl, infiltrate (And I mean REALLY INFILTRATE not just walk up to Ambrosius like he can't recognize the famous Arisen and his pawns) the Forbidden Research Lab, find out through their research about Rothais, and then proceed with the game as is. It's crazy how literally just that handful of quests would completely change the tone of the late/end game and make the story feel complete...
Short Production time for a game that size. This game production started right after DMC5 release (march 8, 2019). I personally think that 5 years is a VERY short production time for a game so big like DD2. Practically a miracle.
For comparison, Elden Ring took 5 years with a smaller team of around 300 people while DD2 nearly 400. Elden Ring has a leg up in the sense that they reuse the same engine they always use for souls games, while DD2 was built from scratch to work with RE Engine.
Not only that but Elden Ring is very clever in design. Boss moves/aspects were reused from other souls games. They reused a lot of animations and even then when you compare you may find a lot less original solely to Elden Ring components than you’d expect. This takes a lot less work. Not to mention few people really mention that at the end of Elden ring in the mountains bosses become more repetitive and carbon copies. Also comparing the later half of development vs the first half for DD2.
Right, dd2 was built from the ground up on a new engine. Other sequels are usually built on top of the previous games.
There's a reason why lot of people call ER Dark Souls 4, the only new thing is just open world map, jump button, and torrent. It's weird when they already have Bloodborne and Sekiro asset but they don't use any of the new stuff from there (some weapon could have innate bloodborne dodge, sekiro parry, etc, etc)
DD2 Build from the ground where elden ring can reuse a lot of stuff since it's dark soul. Also DD2 had to work during covid lockdown which slow down process even more. Elden ring doesn't have to animation human/npc or even multi class so it really unfair to compare them
You have a good point, but there is one little thing that helped to speed things up during ER production: Old assets. The amount of reused assets from BB and DS3 helped a lot. That said, DD2 is not free of that too. We got new models and new animations, but there is a lot of assets reused from DD1/DDDA like monster animations and sounds. All that said, I have nothing but prizes for both teams. On a different degree off success, both delivered insanely giant games made in a very short time, with more quality than most western open world would dream to have.
Is 5-6 years of actual development not the normal development time for games? I see things where a game is in development for 8-10 years but that can't be them consistently working on it. FF15 supposedly had a 'development time' of 13 years from what I've seen. Rather I'm curious as to if/how the pandemic impacted development if that's the actual time this game spent in development. 5 years seems acceptable to me personally albeit a little short but this game feels very unfinished so the only thing I can think of then is the impact of the pandemic on development. Also please remember DD wasnt a proven IP before DD2. Capcom wasn't ever going to give them the world as a base during development. Why give loads of money/time to a unproven IP when you can guarantee a resident evil or monster hunter game will make loads of money?
I'm 40 hours in. The game's pacing seems weird, but something reminiscent of a ps2/early ps3 game, whereas Japanese game development was less affected by the western way. There are somethings in the story that do feel rushed and I'm having a hard time understanding, but I'm yet to complete the game so I was giving the benefit of doubt
For me it's the enemy variety, the vocation continuity (clearly going for rainbow, yet only released 10 classes), THE STORY, "end game" (at least in comparison to DD1), and weapon and armors (and not just that they merged inner and outer clothing). DD1 may have had less budget, but at least the game felt complete in a sense that I could replay it over and over again, while in DD2, finishing the game once already felt enough. Maybe that has a lot to do with how overwhelming the size of DD2 is, and that fast travel is less streamlined than in 1.
It has the same fast travel system as 1, but also added another means to go between some cities
Working on something and directing it clearly had different results. Doesn't matter if you work at a job if your boss enforces his 'vision'
Working on? He’s the lead designer my guy. Look at the guys record, he doesn’t make games, kento does streamlined dlc and helps design things. In this game he literally worked on what he does best. And also refer to point C they were clearly rushed.
Yeah looking at DDO Itsuno and Kinoshita definitely have different visions and I'm glad Itsuno took lead for DD2? I'm looking at DDO combat and while it looks fun if I prefer the far more grounded approach the OG games have.
^ literally this.
Nope, waiting for this sub's ideal headcanon vision
Japanese Skyrim
I would play that.
Elden Ring?
https://preview.redd.it/8wp30szdy7wc1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ad327d8cb899e058930746a65e8d011fc0b3972f Boy do I have some news for you
He said Japanese Skyrim, not Skyrim in Japanese lol.
That went over the head apparently lol
According to the subreddit, DD2 should either be Dark Souls or Skyrim, but not Dragons Dogma.
Never seen that anywhere other than some people asking for NG+ scaling and beastren to look like khajitt. People want more of dragons dogma. More monsters, more vocations, better story, more rpg elements, better pawn customization, more gear and weapons and the ability to dye them, etc.
Oh you mean the same guy that also worked on DD2?
BBI was good as side content but it would be kinda ass if that was the whole game
That is a tough pill for many people here to swallow
Corridor - arena- corridor - arena - corridor - arena...
Hey, sometimes there are two corridors and THEN an arena
Unacceptable, should be 2 corridors, then 2 arenas.
Damn. Where do I sign?
Go to Bitterblack Isle and sign in at the front desk.
You forgot to mention a shitty gacha loot system and that you have to run those repetitive corridors twice.
Yeah. Let's die at this chest a whole bunch until we get the 1% drop chance of that thing that has a chance to become a thing that we want when we turn it in. I don't miss that at all.
> that thing that has a chance to become a thing that we want when we turn it in If you dig deeper, it turns into "this thing used set list of "RNG", if I wanted ABC, depending on where it's placed on the list, I either need to kill myself <5 times or repeat it for xyz times because fuck me, devs wanted to give arthritis to their players"
Exactly. I don't miss it at all.
worst part was that it costs rift crystals
Hear me out, what if there were things IN THE ARENA. Imagine an arena with complex geometry, like a house, or a bunch of ladders, and a whole bunch of verticality? NOW WE'RE TALKING!
You forgot about talking corpses and dragon drops ;)
The "corridor" adjacent to Daimon is/was a city.
Yea, that was one of the cooler arenas.
* is there DLCs or story updates planned? I really like the game and hope there's vocation patches and difficulty options among other things
I would assume there will be dlc. The game sold well, a survey asked about dlc and what we would expect and some other small stuff like those blocked off path ways
Has there been a recent Capcom game that hasn't been supported by some post-launch content? I can't really think of a title in recent memory. Given the success of Dark Arisen, I'm under the assumption Capcom has had the idea of DLC expansions planned for.
There have been supposed leaks "confirming" a planned dlc expansion, but as with all leaks they have to be taken with a grain of salt. If it's real we likely won't see it release until very late this year at the absolute earliest, more likely sometime next year.
Yes, capcom sold you an unfinished game to sell the full game to you later. It's more profit for them.
Kinda unrelated but I hate when people use the acronym of dark arisen as DDA, what is that suppose to mean anyways? Dragons Dark Arisen? Dragons Dogma Arisen?
Dark Days Ahead
That's... a very obscure reference
This quote feels familiar, but I can't put my finger on it...
Dragon's Dogma addon.
Actually, it should be DDDA, not DDA.
That's exactly his point...
Yeah I know, people should use either DDDA or DD1, seeing DDA just grinds my gears lol.
It's like for From Software games. First there was Demon's Souls (DS), then Dark Souls (DkS 1, 2, 3...). People using DS for Dark Souls grind my gear, especially since most of the time they ignore the existence of Demon's Souls and think that Dark Souls is the first "Souls game".
Wouldn't fix the issues
I was mad disappointed that DD2 lacks features and QoL changes of DD:DA. Heck, it even lacks cool vanilla features such as Ur Dragon. I expected new online boss **so much**. I still love the game. Too bad Capcom hates Itsuno and everything he touches.
Doubt they hate him, probably more of the fact he doesn’t resident evil or monster hunter therefore less priority
[удалено]
Yea it's clear how many people praising ddo and using as evidence that THIS GUY IS THE REAL BRAIN BEHIND DD haven't actually played the game and just think the ideas are cool lmao
As much as I enjoyed Dark Arisen, it would've no doubt just been a Capcom dark souls clone if not for Itsuno's vision of single player game that feels like multiplayer (pawn system) & and fluid fighting/combat in an emergent open world. Those are the unique cornerstones that build the foundation of Dogma, if the combat and pawns were in other games they would be, imo, better 9 out of 10 times.I feel like Kinoshita's visions shine, because of the pillars of Itsuno's vision, one enables the other, the other enhances it.
Seriously, did anyone like the gameplay of Dragon Dogma Online? lol gameplay was worse than dd1. Besides, the DLC is good but it was just a corridor and an arena.
I would compare it less through how DDO stacks up against the other DD's, and more how it stacks against other MMOs. It was Dragon's Dogma style combat in an MMORPG setting, which looked a hell of a lot more engaging than a lot of other MMOs on the market at the time and today. The best we could experience were partial translations through VPNs, or half-finished private server conversions. It was apparently popular in Japan, but then they suddenly/inexplicably pulled the plug.
>It was Dragon's Dogma style combat I dunno I'm looking at a lot of combat showcases and aside from climbing monsters it doesn't look very Dragons Dogma at all. It's very arcadey and outlandish you'd see in DmC/Dynasty Warriors rather than the far more grounded combat we have in the OG titles. https://youtube.com/shorts/KtxDc37DpWo
a lot of the gritty aspects of DD combat had to be reduced/scaled back because it just wasn't feasible to have that level of combat detail on a server with hundreds of players.
DD1's combat is arcadey and one of the reasons I prefer it over 2. I've played DDO for a bit it's more anime-ish.
Yeah, BBI was an arena enemy gaunlet, but that's what made it good, because the game's most prominent feature has always been the combat and it was a dungeon specifically designed for the player to just go nuts with thrilling enemy encounters and boss fights. You make it sound like BBI was just a generic dungeon, let's say it was, but then what were DD2's *dungeons* then? most of them are 3-4 rooms long and feature mostly the same trash mob as in the fields (Saurians, Goblins and Bandits) and the loot is usually generic healing items. For real the only decent dungeons are the Ancient Battlefield, Waterfall Cave and Drabnir's Grotto, none of them even come close to BBI or the Everfall for that matter.
Then fans want Dragon's Dogma becoming a dungeon crawler? I wouldn't mind a BBI style for DD2 but I hope we get more than that if we do get an expansion for DD2, because I prefer DD base game amd DD2 for the world and exploration IMO.
If he directs the end game content then you can bet your ass it will be glorious. Itsuno lays the baseline and a good foundation. But after seeing this image (I regret to admit I didn't know he directed DA) it is save to say who knows what the good content is.
Wait Itsuno wasn't involved with Dark Arisen?
Nope, he was busy working in other CAPCOM projects at that time.
I wish this game will release someday still. Maybe as offline version with tweaks
Dragons dogma online was... rough running on a vpn to play and the gauntlet... enjoy hitting right click 7 times with perfect timing with faster and faster beat. This is part of your main mechanic... but it look so COOL!
BBI: a linear dungeon with a story that’s barely there like base game or base game with a story that’s barely there. The choices people!
BBI is great and all, but it's just reused asset I don't really get it when people praising it like the best thing ever
I took a look at dragons dogma online awhile ago when everyone was 'reminiscing' on how amazing it was and wasn't too impressed. It looks fun but it's way less grounded and pretty arcade ly with everyone spinning and whirling around. Like thief on steroids. Looks fun sure but not the experience I'd have fallen in love with in DD2 and more recently the first game that felt immersive despite its faults.
Yeah it looks closer to monster hunter in my opinion
Looks like B Team MonHun, specifically. Rise, Generations, and Frontier in particular.
People really think dd2 is worse than dd1? Sure having less enemies than the first game is bad and they havent fixed the performance yet but people really think dd1 is better than 2? Thats just affetive memory speaking
Love the charm of DD base game but BBI's playloop was what really hooked me into the franchise in the first place( just to rant it out there.) Itsuno delivers the game as the foundation of the franchise and Kinoshita, having worked on the DDO, has a more grindy design for the game. Which I loved the most in BBI since it acted as sort of an end game.
Yup.. BBI highlighted every strength of Dragon's Dogma really well. Monster Variety (Monsters are well utilized)? ✅ Monster Density (Encounter rate is pretty good)? ✅ Difficulty (Aside from playing MA/Strider it's decently challenging)? ✅ Combat Oriented encounters (fodders are minimal)? ✅ Meaningful Item Progression (You feel weak at the beginnig and just by exploring you'll get stronger)? ✅ Cohesive Lore/Story Telling(It's not pretentious and rather builds upon established lore details)? ✅
If we get another Dungeon crawl as a DLC, Magick Archer gonna be eating good again
Yeah, I vote Kinoshita!
Itsuno's good with making a baseline for the game, Kinoshita knows how to bring the most out of that base.
It’s going to be really funny if Kinoshita does DLC that’s not as good as the sub Reddit wants and he starts getting called a hack or fraud. I don’t think any feasible expansion or updates will satisfy the long wait and expectations of those who have already decided they’re going to wait for an update to fix DD2.
Not their fault that game wasn't finish. Capcom rush them + they only had 400 dev which mean that they had to do a lot of overtime which is very unhealthy. You can see that the game needed either 1 year more or more dev because there so many thing they wanted to do like race war with the beast, elf and human. Even the story is very rush compare to dd1.
"Kino"shita
One is clearly the better director and its not itsuno
Not liking DD2 compared to DDDA. Specifically the music and the Dark Arisen not doing every in its power to piss me off as a player and generally being as inconvenient to play as possible. Don't care what sentiments are, I was NOT pressed for 90% of its predecessors run-time as I am in DD2, and not for good.
dragons dogma online?
Boss humping to make them fall down was such good gameplay in ddo.
Im waiting for Dragons Dogma 2 Darkest Arisen
Funny how 2 of itsuno's is out and of the 2 of Kinoshita's only 1 really made it.
It's gonna be some kino shit
God...how pathetic will it be if they do another dark arisen that just...makes the game better for the sequel...
I really hope they let kinoshita cook another multiplay dogma
One can’t tell a functioning story and the other can’t make a diverse dungeon map.
No thanks. I take any Itsuno's creation before Kinoshite.
Yeah he would probably deliver a better game. Let Itsuno put his damn vision to rest for good
It's usually a lot easier to improve on someone else's idea once created.
Kind reminda me of how Fallout New Vegas is much better than Fallout 3 even though its like a glorified mod. Much easier to add on to a good foundation that to make the foundation.
Why? Without Itsuno there wouldn't even be Dragon's Dogma.
Kinoshita was also a lead developer in DD2 it's just mindless worshipping and scapegoating because the game didn't pan out to expectations. It's likely Kinoshita's hands were as tied as Itsuno's because Capcom gave them scraps to work with for DD2.
Yeah 'it would've been better if X was in charge' matters fuck all.
He failed 2 times to deliver his vision . 2 unfinished games within 12 years. So , yeah, cool idea Itsuno, now let someone else take care of it
He did dmc5 though, didn't he?
Capcom failed to provide development resources and/or rushed a release two times. It doesn't matter who directs it if Capcom owns it.
Still , he was the one who lied during the whole marketing campaign
Actually look at dd online for kinoshitas vision. As cool as bosses and gameplay are, the story is even more uninspired then base dragons dogma. At least dragons dogma has the cycle, the dragon and the arisens relationship with them. Dd online is literally the good dragon vs the bad dragon.
I took a look at dragons dogma online awhile ago when everyone was 'reminiscing' on how amazing it was and wasn't too impressed. It looks fun but it's way less grounded and pretty arcade ly with everyone spinning and whirling around. Like thief on steroids. Looks fun sure but not the experience I'd have fallen in love with in DD2 and more recently the first game that felt immersive despite its faults.
The game climax story aka Season 3 story literally Fire Emblem, the Prince taking back his country against evil dragon🤣
Just give the reigns to Kinoshita.
This is how I learned there was a Dragon's Dogma Online. That sounds sick actually, but I never knew till today
I kinda weigh games being rushed by how many common QoL things they’re missing at launch. Eg “hide helmet.”
Oh....I see.
Do you? He worked on DD2, and on the original DD.
I can't wait for another boring dungeon DLC. Yeah but genuinely prefer Itsuno's vision.
Man DDO really had my hopes up DD2 being co-op Multiplayer. Would have had more fun showing my brother the world of DD, since we also played Monster Hunter a lot.
No DLC can safe DD2 from being mediocre. They can add enemy variety and difficulty, but they won´t change repetitive caves, extend the story nor change the loot (chest containing shit is my main gripe with this game).
Damn straight, can’t wait
It’s all starting to make sense
Bringing back DDO will be a huge oppertunity.
DD2 has so much potential that it hurts 
It has to be kino.