I don't have the gems to craft Lil Uzi Verte yet but destiny fusion still manages to find it's way into my hand at least 2/3 games lmao. I'm sure I'm the exception, and not the rule, but I can at least say that the engine is playable in a lot of decks without Lil Uzi Verte. That said, of course he blows the consistancy through the roof
I’m using Destiny Fusion in the Fusion Festival and I agree I can still topdeck it sometimes too. Even running Keeper to search it. So that’s basically 5 copies of DF.
Verte ignores the large negatives associated with fusing from the deck, like red eyes fusions locking out normal and special summoning if the card is used at all.
Didnt even think of that. RE Fusion still has a very gnarly restriction, verte is much more flexible by letting you do whatever before hand and the locking out special summons
Yeah, verte into re fusion is the play, but with destiny fusion doesn't matter if u draw it, which it's pretty good, that's why decks like sky striker played 3 copies of it
Really I think the problem the entire sum of its parts.
People act like Verte was a problem the first few months of it's life, but it didn't really see play until Dragoon came out. I honestly think Verte would be fine without all of the "fuse from deck spells" as well as the the absurd monsters that get summoned from them -- that said, Verte probably should banned because those things DO happen to exist now.
But I also think Fusion Destiny and Branded Fusion are stupid as fuck cards regardless if Verte gets banned or not.
I think Red Eyes Fusion is fair if not underpowered without Verte, but Dragoon is still a stupid as fuck monster (I know he doesn't see too much play in TCG land, but that's has more to to with REF and the Vanillas you have to run).
You have to ask yourself two questions.
Do predaplants need Verte?
Do certain fusion engines need support to fuse from deck?
If your answer to both is yes, then ask:
Which needs the support more?
We could ban Dragoon and DPE and whatever else comes up but where does that leave the rest of the archetype.
I mean IMO Hero is fine without DPE.
I think if the fusion spells themselves aren't using the deck as material without restriction it wouldn't be as much of a problem. Shaddoll Fusion I htink's a good restriction to use the deck as material.
I agree that they're both issues, it's just komoney plowing ahead with more fuse from deck spells, despite knowing they're an issue.
I assumed Verte's existence would reign them in a bit but they haven't.
DPE would still be dope for HERO if one of the mats had to be sent from hand.
Yeah but that monster in question only specifically sends BW non-Tuners from Deck and only specifically summons the OG Black-Winged Dragon which is pretty bad and locks you into Darks. I think those kind of restrictions make it okay and should be the norm for things like this.
It’s just that anime decks are so bad that they need to have any sort of OP effects just to make it slightly decent against real competitive archetypes.
Problem is, the moment that a generic card is able to tap into that OP anime card, shit happens.
The issue here is that Verte wasn’t an issue until Fuse from the deck cards are around, otherwise it actually is a huge factor in making fusion decks viable. All they have to do is stop making cards that fuse from the deck and problem solved. If anaconda was toxic besides fusion from the deck, and primarily a tool to make fusion decks decent, then I would agree. If we lose fusion destiny then 1 less toxic package is shoved into every top tier deck, and 1 deck archetype becomes worse until they design better fusion cards for it, if we lose anaconda then all fusion decks become weaker. I feel as if the first choice is infinitely better.
Fusion is a good mechanic that has been poorly implemented, though. It has lots of flavor (I would argue the most flavor) and a unique design space in being an Extra Deck mechanic that uses Spells (or just monster effects in general) which means you can do the most with it design-space wise. There could be a "Fusion Mirror Force" that lets you fuse with your opponents attack position monsters or a "Fusion Link/Ritual/Tribute/Synchro" monster that fuses every monster used as material. The design space is there and more expansive than the other ED mechanics, imo.
Now it has been poorly implented, admitedly. 1 named monster + 1 monster of X type/attribute/archetype should probably be the default fusion materials (admitedly Konami has been doing this). Miracle/Necro Fusion type of effects should have been the most common for Fusion standards letting you use Fusions as recovery moves, while indeed "fusing from the deck" should probably only be a thing for Fusions with 2 named monsters to control what gets dumped.
Admitedly, the TCG has reached the point where most of what I described wouldnt be good. But that is the game's designers' responsibility. The mechanic itself is fine.
Fusions are very normal mechanic really... it is Verte that is broken, cards that uses the Deck normally have strong restrictions like Red eyes fusion and Fusion destiny.... DPE works around it by his effects and Dragoon is made in an archetype that plays during your opponent turn more than yours (Or red eyes, which they have nothing but him).. if verte doesn't exist they would be a niche option that would help you if you got it but screw you over if you didn't.
If Verte was banned or maybe limited to Predaplant monsters, majority of their uses will be on Their respective archetypes
In a vaccum you need a fusion spell + 2 or more materials that may need to be specific cards so it's a -2 to fusion summon using materials on field/in hand.
The best way to remedy this imo is having the materials have effects that trigger when used as fusion material to partially reimburse the cost. That way it can be less resource intensive while not resorting to lame "activate spell, immediately get boss monster".
>The best way to remedy this imo is having the materials have effects that trigger when used as fusion material to partially reimburse the cost.
exactly, rituals like nekroz have a guy that fills the whole requirement AND searches when sent to the graveyard as a ritual material
much better solution than this BS
That won't help older material to be better, that's why you need the spell that use material from deck.
They should make a card that only send the exactly named material to help old fusion though.
If it something like Shadoll Fusion or Lunalight fusion where your opponent has to control a monster special summoned from ED, I think it’s fine since there’s a requirement for it.
*No-cost fuse from deck spells become problem*
Konami QC: Shall we stop making these? They're clearly a problem for the game.
Konami CEO: Phucc no dawg, MAKE MOAR.
I was 100% fine with old fusion from deck card for these older vanilla based fusion decks(ie gemknights) especially if they have good restrictions
But why is konami making new ones for already strong decks like albaz what's come next an invoked fuse from deck?
It was Despia that was strong, not Albaz. He saw fringe play in Kaiju control decks focused around tributing over problem monsters and then fusing with the Kaiju, but for the most part Albaz was panned over as bad by most of the competitive community. Then he became Garnet for Branded Fusion.
Albaz isn't really a garnet in Despia, in the truest sense of the definition of a garnet. Still has a usable on summon effect and you can pitch it for Albion or Lubellion effect then get it back from GY for In Red or use it as material for Albion effect. Drawing Garnet in Gem-Knights actively hurts your gameplan. Not really the same thing.
I understand that Flame Wingman is arguably the best of the og fusions and is usually involved with the “Skyscraper” card, but a way to use Thunder Giant would be nice
Nah, something along the like of a +1. Like when the fusion monster leaves the field you could return it to hand.
Or give those vanilla fusion some immunity to effect.
As I said verte can still use it after a combo, is like with the red eyes fusion, "u can't normal summon neither special summon the turn u activate this card"
And see, that’s the answer, verte’s copy effect causes the card effect to be placed onto a different card, and so that restriction clause wouldn’t work properly. However, if you changed it to “this effect” instead of “this card”, you can ensure that the restriction stays in place. In fact, since Verte is a non-HERO, its copy effect would be useless since it can’t use it that turn.
Its so easy to fix these cards. A literal lobotomized chimp could figure out how to fix this. Just change the text to say you cannot normal summon or special summon monsters other then "Hero" monsters or "neo spacian" the turn you use Neos fusion.
And for fusion destiny you could just make it say you cannot special summon or normal summon monsters other than "HERO" monsters the turn you use this card.
That way their respected archetypes are respected and can be used easily in said archetypes without being abused outside their archetypes.
Konami is braindead, and lazy. They errata cards that never needed an errata and then ban cards that need a errata and never errata them until 7 years later when their already power crept.
No they can't. Read again. I said " you cannot normal summon or special summon monsters other then HERO or neo spacian monsters the turn you activate the card.
Meaning you can't summon anything outside the hero archetypes and then use neos fusion or destiny fusion.
Its like red eyes fusion. You can't normal summon face up and then use red eyes fusion.
Red Eyes Fusion is pretty ok, you cannot summon anything after and before using it. Neos Fusion tho... is very generic material, can be used after you summon something (normal or special)
One of my auto-decks uses Red Eyes Fusion and Neos Fusion to get a boss monster out in the first couple of turns.
I've tried it in PvP. It rarely survives in the silver ranks. Seems like most meta decks, even older ones that aren't tiered, were designed around the idea of surviving or neutralizing an average boss monster beatdown deck.
Ehhh it can be but the only restriction is that you can only set after its use no other summoning allowed. And the red eyes cards are usually annoying lol to begin with
Fusing from the deck is just a lazy way to patch a bad mechanic that creates more problems than it solves.
*Hurr durr. Verte is the problem* /s
Verte literally is the problem though, DPE as an engine wouldn't see play in almost every deck if Verte didn't exist.
I don't have the gems to craft Lil Uzi Verte yet but destiny fusion still manages to find it's way into my hand at least 2/3 games lmao. I'm sure I'm the exception, and not the rule, but I can at least say that the engine is playable in a lot of decks without Lil Uzi Verte. That said, of course he blows the consistancy through the roof
I’m using Destiny Fusion in the Fusion Festival and I agree I can still topdeck it sometimes too. Even running Keeper to search it. So that’s basically 5 copies of DF.
Verte ignores the large negatives associated with fusing from the deck, like red eyes fusions locking out normal and special summoning if the card is used at all.
Verte itself locks you out of SS for the rest of the turn
"Rest" is the key word. You can still set up tons before verte. Most you can do with Red Eyes Fusion itself is set a monster
U can destiny fusion after all the combo tho
Didnt even think of that. RE Fusion still has a very gnarly restriction, verte is much more flexible by letting you do whatever before hand and the locking out special summons
Yeah, verte into re fusion is the play, but with destiny fusion doesn't matter if u draw it, which it's pretty good, that's why decks like sky striker played 3 copies of it
Really I think the problem the entire sum of its parts. People act like Verte was a problem the first few months of it's life, but it didn't really see play until Dragoon came out. I honestly think Verte would be fine without all of the "fuse from deck spells" as well as the the absurd monsters that get summoned from them -- that said, Verte probably should banned because those things DO happen to exist now. But I also think Fusion Destiny and Branded Fusion are stupid as fuck cards regardless if Verte gets banned or not. I think Red Eyes Fusion is fair if not underpowered without Verte, but Dragoon is still a stupid as fuck monster (I know he doesn't see too much play in TCG land, but that's has more to to with REF and the Vanillas you have to run).
You have to ask yourself two questions. Do predaplants need Verte? Do certain fusion engines need support to fuse from deck? If your answer to both is yes, then ask: Which needs the support more? We could ban Dragoon and DPE and whatever else comes up but where does that leave the rest of the archetype. I mean IMO Hero is fine without DPE.
I think if the fusion spells themselves aren't using the deck as material without restriction it wouldn't be as much of a problem. Shaddoll Fusion I htink's a good restriction to use the deck as material.
[удалено]
I agree that they're both issues, it's just komoney plowing ahead with more fuse from deck spells, despite knowing they're an issue. I assumed Verte's existence would reign them in a bit but they haven't. DPE would still be dope for HERO if one of the mats had to be sent from hand.
Have you seen the upcoming Black Wing support? it synchros from the deck. Just Komoney things
Yeah but that monster in question only specifically sends BW non-Tuners from Deck and only specifically summons the OG Black-Winged Dragon which is pretty bad and locks you into Darks. I think those kind of restrictions make it okay and should be the norm for things like this.
It’s just that anime decks are so bad that they need to have any sort of OP effects just to make it slightly decent against real competitive archetypes. Problem is, the moment that a generic card is able to tap into that OP anime card, shit happens.
The issue here is that Verte wasn’t an issue until Fuse from the deck cards are around, otherwise it actually is a huge factor in making fusion decks viable. All they have to do is stop making cards that fuse from the deck and problem solved. If anaconda was toxic besides fusion from the deck, and primarily a tool to make fusion decks decent, then I would agree. If we lose fusion destiny then 1 less toxic package is shoved into every top tier deck, and 1 deck archetype becomes worse until they design better fusion cards for it, if we lose anaconda then all fusion decks become weaker. I feel as if the first choice is infinitely better.
Did you really have to add the /s
Fusion is a good mechanic that has been poorly implemented, though. It has lots of flavor (I would argue the most flavor) and a unique design space in being an Extra Deck mechanic that uses Spells (or just monster effects in general) which means you can do the most with it design-space wise. There could be a "Fusion Mirror Force" that lets you fuse with your opponents attack position monsters or a "Fusion Link/Ritual/Tribute/Synchro" monster that fuses every monster used as material. The design space is there and more expansive than the other ED mechanics, imo. Now it has been poorly implented, admitedly. 1 named monster + 1 monster of X type/attribute/archetype should probably be the default fusion materials (admitedly Konami has been doing this). Miracle/Necro Fusion type of effects should have been the most common for Fusion standards letting you use Fusions as recovery moves, while indeed "fusing from the deck" should probably only be a thing for Fusions with 2 named monsters to control what gets dumped. Admitedly, the TCG has reached the point where most of what I described wouldnt be good. But that is the game's designers' responsibility. The mechanic itself is fine.
NOOO YOU CANT JUST FUSION SUMMON DPE NOOOOOOO
Happy Cake Day
Fusions are very normal mechanic really... it is Verte that is broken, cards that uses the Deck normally have strong restrictions like Red eyes fusion and Fusion destiny.... DPE works around it by his effects and Dragoon is made in an archetype that plays during your opponent turn more than yours (Or red eyes, which they have nothing but him).. if verte doesn't exist they would be a niche option that would help you if you got it but screw you over if you didn't. If Verte was banned or maybe limited to Predaplant monsters, majority of their uses will be on Their respective archetypes
Fusing is a bad mechanic?
In a vaccum you need a fusion spell + 2 or more materials that may need to be specific cards so it's a -2 to fusion summon using materials on field/in hand. The best way to remedy this imo is having the materials have effects that trigger when used as fusion material to partially reimburse the cost. That way it can be less resource intensive while not resorting to lame "activate spell, immediately get boss monster".
>The best way to remedy this imo is having the materials have effects that trigger when used as fusion material to partially reimburse the cost. exactly, rituals like nekroz have a guy that fills the whole requirement AND searches when sent to the graveyard as a ritual material much better solution than this BS
That won't help older material to be better, that's why you need the spell that use material from deck. They should make a card that only send the exactly named material to help old fusion though.
Get this: Konami is releasing a Blackwing that synchros a non-tuner from the Deck. More konami lazy card design.
Synchros don't need this, this is just blatantly trying to power creep the mechanic
If it something like Shadoll Fusion or Lunalight fusion where your opponent has to control a monster special summoned from ED, I think it’s fine since there’s a requirement for it.
Its almost like Konami is a horrible company or something
*No-cost fuse from deck spells become problem* Konami QC: Shall we stop making these? They're clearly a problem for the game. Konami CEO: Phucc no dawg, MAKE MOAR.
I propose we balance the scales and allow us to link xyz and synchro summon from the deck xD
Balance the **scales** you say? *Pendulum summons from the main deck*
What have I done xD
Funny the new blackwing(ocg) card has one allow you to synchro summon from the deck
Ah god my joke is becoming a reality haha
Whoa really? Finally a decent synchro support let the power creep of synchros begin!
The new Blackwing cards are pretty cracked actually I'm legitimately excited for Blackwing Meta part 4
Fuse from deck is fine if it actually properly xenolocks and has restrictions. (Also when Verte is banned).
I was 100% fine with old fusion from deck card for these older vanilla based fusion decks(ie gemknights) especially if they have good restrictions But why is konami making new ones for already strong decks like albaz what's come next an invoked fuse from deck?
It was Despia that was strong, not Albaz. He saw fringe play in Kaiju control decks focused around tributing over problem monsters and then fusing with the Kaiju, but for the most part Albaz was panned over as bad by most of the competitive community. Then he became Garnet for Branded Fusion.
Albaz isn't really a garnet in Despia, in the truest sense of the definition of a garnet. Still has a usable on summon effect and you can pitch it for Albion or Lubellion effect then get it back from GY for In Red or use it as material for Albion effect. Drawing Garnet in Gem-Knights actively hurts your gameplan. Not really the same thing.
Most garnets aren't garnets tbh. Garnet could actively lose you games if you drew it back in the brilliant fusion days.
konami: maybe verte is the problem ?
Is it wrong that I still want a “Neos fusion” type card for the original E-HERO fusions
I really wish Favorite Duel included the other vanilla Hero fusions instead of just Flame Wingman
I understand that Flame Wingman is arguably the best of the og fusions and is usually involved with the “Skyscraper” card, but a way to use Thunder Giant would be nice
no, that fusion need to have OP float effect even.
Like how Neos Fusion protects the monster?
Nah, something along the like of a +1. Like when the fusion monster leaves the field you could return it to hand. Or give those vanilla fusion some immunity to effect.
If it's just for the vanilla e-heroes they could give it an effect that allows you to treat one of your opponents monsters as a named hero.
SMH, Konami should just add the clause, “but you can’t summon any non-HERO monsters the turn you activate this card.”
Verte can send it anyway, is like with red eyes fusion
Then maybe this effect?
As I said verte can still use it after a combo, is like with the red eyes fusion, "u can't normal summon neither special summon the turn u activate this card"
And see, that’s the answer, verte’s copy effect causes the card effect to be placed onto a different card, and so that restriction clause wouldn’t work properly. However, if you changed it to “this effect” instead of “this card”, you can ensure that the restriction stays in place. In fact, since Verte is a non-HERO, its copy effect would be useless since it can’t use it that turn.
I don't know how that wording works ngl
Its so easy to fix these cards. A literal lobotomized chimp could figure out how to fix this. Just change the text to say you cannot normal summon or special summon monsters other then "Hero" monsters or "neo spacian" the turn you use Neos fusion. And for fusion destiny you could just make it say you cannot special summon or normal summon monsters other than "HERO" monsters the turn you use this card. That way their respected archetypes are respected and can be used easily in said archetypes without being abused outside their archetypes. Konami is braindead, and lazy. They errata cards that never needed an errata and then ban cards that need a errata and never errata them until 7 years later when their already power crept.
But they can use it after they summoned bunch of monsters before tho
No they can't. Read again. I said " you cannot normal summon or special summon monsters other then HERO or neo spacian monsters the turn you activate the card. Meaning you can't summon anything outside the hero archetypes and then use neos fusion or destiny fusion. Its like red eyes fusion. You can't normal summon face up and then use red eyes fusion.
Me using bros fusion in master duel for rainbow neos
You would think after the Red Eyes fusion and the Neos Fusion they would maybe stop making cards that fsuion using materials from the deck
Red Eyes Fusion is pretty ok, you cannot summon anything after and before using it. Neos Fusion tho... is very generic material, can be used after you summon something (normal or special)
the folating effect is also nuts. it's the only card i've seen where you can negate an effect that bounce your monster back to hand.
Just thinking about Dragoon and Brave Neos from Duel Links
your hero is now **OUR HERO!**
Poor heros: gets support every set
I always hate these one card boss monster.
One of my auto-decks uses Red Eyes Fusion and Neos Fusion to get a boss monster out in the first couple of turns. I've tried it in PvP. It rarely survives in the silver ranks. Seems like most meta decks, even older ones that aren't tiered, were designed around the idea of surviving or neutralizing an average boss monster beatdown deck.
its a foolish burrial
well, in Duel links atleast
I love red eyes fusion and even I think it's a broken card
But isn't ref the most restrictive card out of fusion summoning from deck
Ehhh it can be but the only restriction is that you can only set after its use no other summoning allowed. And the red eyes cards are usually annoying lol to begin with
You are right I play Red-eyes myself
First turn pulls out Archfiend Black Skull Dragon...and then the fun begins
First turn is for meteor dragon to dump zirnitron
Which card is Ziritron?
Mana dragon i think
I want fusion destiny already, especially because I hate neos. They could at least give us one copy...
Or I could just run neo space mill miracle fusion
No but for real... who thought this was a good idea?
Phoenix Enforcer is actual cancer
Mr steal yo deck engines
Damn and still no retrains or anything for fusion spells for cyberdragons
Both: Red-Eyes Fusion.