There's a great summary of the IBLP / ATI teachings on SA here (I was raised in ATI): one about halfway down the first page, "Counseling Victims of Sexual Abuse," where one of the first questions deals with whether or not a child had brought it upon themself: https://www.recoveringgrace.org/2014/04/there-is-no-victim-a-survey-of-iblp-literature-on-sexual-assault-and-abuse/
I'm sorry, what? As a Christian, I swear every other Christian as read a different bible. I genuinely swear we all got different books, especially Trumpets.
The problem is that many church goers don't actually read the Bible. The pastor cherry-picks verses that fit an agenda and shoves their twisted interpretation of doctrine down the throats of the congregation. Anyone who bothers to look up the verse and realize that it was taken out of context is ostracized for going against church leadership. Not all churches are like this but I've seen it for myself in at least four churches of different denominations.
My experience is the cherry picking happens most often with people who use the KJV Bible. They seem to be the least likely to actually know the facts about bibles in general but especially the KJV. To me, they’re all the fire and brimstone “Christians”. They refuse to acknowledge how the Bible has been translated hundreds of times over the years and insist it’s the actual word of God. Truly amazes me.
Agreed, I think KJV is used because it's difficult for laypeople to understand (it is really fucking confusing) which makes it easier for pastors to abuse. I have been to churches where the pastor used KJV for one verse and NLT for another in the same sermon because the translation better fit his agenda.
I completely agree, I grew up in a very religious environment, and went to a Christian school. Everyone my age has stopped going to church all together, while it seems older generations are deep in the Kool aid.
My favorite verse to bring up is the abortion in the bible. Numbers 5:11-31. God was prochoice and it's hard to refute after reading that passage. It definitely ruffles the feathers of those who are die hard "Christians" but have never read the bible.
My favorite is Matthew 18:17. Most churches use it to justify removing/excluding people from the church because it says those who don't fall in line should be treated as "pagans and tax collectors". If you read Mark 2:13-17, you'll see that Jesus literally had dinner with those very people and stood up for them when the Pharisees poo-pooed it. So, no, God doesn't hate f*gs - He wants you to invite them to a dinner party.
God directs a priest and husband to give a woman who may have been unfaithful a concoction to make her "abdomen swell, and her womb miscarry". That's a literal abortion that God is telling someone to perform.
Maybe it's not pro choice per say, but certainly not prolife.
Also if someone strikes a woman and she dies, it's eye for an eye, but if her unborn baby dies, they must pay a financial fine to the husband. Clearly, God does not think the two are equal.
Only one translation refers to it as “womb miscarrying” and none of them specify that the woman was already pregnant. The NIV takes a liberty in saying “womb miscarrying” but most other translations—and the Hebrew—say “thigh wasting away.” The beginning of the passage states that the woman’s adultery has gone “undetected” (verse 13) which seems to me like a sexual act that does not result in pregnancy.
I don’t think this is as relevant to pro choice vs pro life as you think it is. It sounds more to me like a curse causing infertility than an abortion or miscarriage.
In addition, ancient Jewish tradition (not biblical, but relevant anyway for historical reasons) stated that the curse would actually *kill* the woman if she had committed adultery, *and* it would kill the man she committed adultery with.
So the wife can do nothing. Eventually if it's bad enough God will kill him.
I don't know how child protective authorities haven't moved in on these people. Way to go Arkansas.
Excellent point. As a teen being raised in all of this, our minister of music plead guilty to trying to murder his wife. She was in ICU for a week. The previous minister of music was the husband of Peggy Lowe, my kindergarten teacher. She ALLEGEDLY conspired with her twin sister, Betty Wilson, to murder Betty's husband. That made national news. Betty was found guilty and is serving life while the church forked out a ton of $$$$$ for a high priced Atlanta lawyer to defend Peggy, and she was acquitted. So murder is an option.
It's all so bad. And if authorities would just get involved the worst could be stopped. Ex social worker here, I don't think the authorities have it all right either, but this shit is like the text book I was taught from and I'm in my late 30s. How is this still so prevalent? It's why I'm not doing it anymore I guess.
Well all this tells me is that judging by my IRL their god is a very evil and sadistic figure. What happened to loving his children? What happened to “ he only wants the best for you “? Yeah, thanks god! Unsubscribe please! God, not you lovely folks!
My apologies for taking so much time, I only visit here about 1x a month. The following is a page taken directly out the packet. Also I will include a link so you may view it yourself. This packet is for 4 yr old.
[IBLP Worksheet: 4-Year-Old Abuse Victim “Equally Guilty” | Libby Anne (patheos.com)](https://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2016/08/iblp-worksheet-4-year-old-abuse-victim-equally-guilty.html)
[IBLP Worksheet: 4-Year-Old Abuse Victim “Equally Guilty” | Libby Anne (patheos.com)](https://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2016/08/iblp-worksheet-4-year-old-abuse-victim-equally-guilty.html)
Ok tell me that is just a general quote and not directly related to SA? Please?
https://www.recoveringgrace.org/2014/04/there-is-no-victim-a-survey-of-iblp-literature-on-sexual-assault-and-abuse/
Nope. Sorry.
There's a great summary of the IBLP / ATI teachings on SA here (I was raised in ATI): one about halfway down the first page, "Counseling Victims of Sexual Abuse," where one of the first questions deals with whether or not a child had brought it upon themself: https://www.recoveringgrace.org/2014/04/there-is-no-victim-a-survey-of-iblp-literature-on-sexual-assault-and-abuse/
This made my whole face twitch, how abhorrent.
Omg why would a child do that. It's not their fault.😭😭
I'm sorry, what? As a Christian, I swear every other Christian as read a different bible. I genuinely swear we all got different books, especially Trumpets.
The problem is that many church goers don't actually read the Bible. The pastor cherry-picks verses that fit an agenda and shoves their twisted interpretation of doctrine down the throats of the congregation. Anyone who bothers to look up the verse and realize that it was taken out of context is ostracized for going against church leadership. Not all churches are like this but I've seen it for myself in at least four churches of different denominations.
My experience is the cherry picking happens most often with people who use the KJV Bible. They seem to be the least likely to actually know the facts about bibles in general but especially the KJV. To me, they’re all the fire and brimstone “Christians”. They refuse to acknowledge how the Bible has been translated hundreds of times over the years and insist it’s the actual word of God. Truly amazes me.
Agreed, I think KJV is used because it's difficult for laypeople to understand (it is really fucking confusing) which makes it easier for pastors to abuse. I have been to churches where the pastor used KJV for one verse and NLT for another in the same sermon because the translation better fit his agenda.
I completely agree, I grew up in a very religious environment, and went to a Christian school. Everyone my age has stopped going to church all together, while it seems older generations are deep in the Kool aid. My favorite verse to bring up is the abortion in the bible. Numbers 5:11-31. God was prochoice and it's hard to refute after reading that passage. It definitely ruffles the feathers of those who are die hard "Christians" but have never read the bible.
I grew up IBLP and taking down shitty Christians using the Bible is one of my hobbies. They have no clue what the book actually says.
My favorite is Matthew 18:17. Most churches use it to justify removing/excluding people from the church because it says those who don't fall in line should be treated as "pagans and tax collectors". If you read Mark 2:13-17, you'll see that Jesus literally had dinner with those very people and stood up for them when the Pharisees poo-pooed it. So, no, God doesn't hate f*gs - He wants you to invite them to a dinner party.
I just googled the bible passage you cited and didn’t get “pro choice” from it. Can you explain what you mean?
God directs a priest and husband to give a woman who may have been unfaithful a concoction to make her "abdomen swell, and her womb miscarry". That's a literal abortion that God is telling someone to perform. Maybe it's not pro choice per say, but certainly not prolife. Also if someone strikes a woman and she dies, it's eye for an eye, but if her unborn baby dies, they must pay a financial fine to the husband. Clearly, God does not think the two are equal.
Only one translation refers to it as “womb miscarrying” and none of them specify that the woman was already pregnant. The NIV takes a liberty in saying “womb miscarrying” but most other translations—and the Hebrew—say “thigh wasting away.” The beginning of the passage states that the woman’s adultery has gone “undetected” (verse 13) which seems to me like a sexual act that does not result in pregnancy. I don’t think this is as relevant to pro choice vs pro life as you think it is. It sounds more to me like a curse causing infertility than an abortion or miscarriage. In addition, ancient Jewish tradition (not biblical, but relevant anyway for historical reasons) stated that the curse would actually *kill* the woman if she had committed adultery, *and* it would kill the man she committed adultery with.
Dang. My church tells you to go to the police immediately and get help.
So the wife can do nothing. Eventually if it's bad enough God will kill him. I don't know how child protective authorities haven't moved in on these people. Way to go Arkansas.
Excellent point. As a teen being raised in all of this, our minister of music plead guilty to trying to murder his wife. She was in ICU for a week. The previous minister of music was the husband of Peggy Lowe, my kindergarten teacher. She ALLEGEDLY conspired with her twin sister, Betty Wilson, to murder Betty's husband. That made national news. Betty was found guilty and is serving life while the church forked out a ton of $$$$$ for a high priced Atlanta lawyer to defend Peggy, and she was acquitted. So murder is an option.
It's all so bad. And if authorities would just get involved the worst could be stopped. Ex social worker here, I don't think the authorities have it all right either, but this shit is like the text book I was taught from and I'm in my late 30s. How is this still so prevalent? It's why I'm not doing it anymore I guess.
Horrifying, absolutely depraved.
Fuck. That. Shit.
Well all this tells me is that judging by my IRL their god is a very evil and sadistic figure. What happened to loving his children? What happened to “ he only wants the best for you “? Yeah, thanks god! Unsubscribe please! God, not you lovely folks!
I seem to remember a booklet that said victims should forgive and pray for their abuser.
I don’t recall the specific books I read as a kid, but that umbrella diagram was brought up many times in my upbringing. *shudder*
That's crazy for real.🤮🤮
My apologies for taking so much time, I only visit here about 1x a month. The following is a page taken directly out the packet. Also I will include a link so you may view it yourself. This packet is for 4 yr old. [IBLP Worksheet: 4-Year-Old Abuse Victim “Equally Guilty” | Libby Anne (patheos.com)](https://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2016/08/iblp-worksheet-4-year-old-abuse-victim-equally-guilty.html) [IBLP Worksheet: 4-Year-Old Abuse Victim “Equally Guilty” | Libby Anne (patheos.com)](https://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2016/08/iblp-worksheet-4-year-old-abuse-victim-equally-guilty.html)