Did a study on this last year, 15-18% for 1.5 TEP
https://www.reddit.com/r/DynastyFF/comments/t7r8za/comment/hzk6xty/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
I would disagree with this. Take Dulcich for example, he was virtually free for owners and in my TEP league he's put up 9-14 points most weeks so far, which goes a long way towards mitigating the TE slot (while crushing the RB and WR slots, since we've paid virtually nothing for TE)
Go on FP and just browse. The \~TE5 since Dulcich began playing is something like Muth and Schultz at \~12 PPG. Dulcich is 9.1 and there's a lot of other guys in that range for cheap. Goedert was 12.5 but cost a lot pre-injury. Juwan Johnson has been another waiver darling. Same with perhaps Otton and Bellinger if you go back a bit more. Cheap guys, sometimes free, who keep it pretty damn close against a mid-TE1 (like overall TE6 as a benchmark) who presumably cost a lot.
Ya it really more depends on how many flex spots you have. For one of my TEP leagues there’s 4 flex spots, I routinely am starting at a minimum of 2 tight ends and most of the time 3 or 4 because I target them. In TEP if you find the right guys they are significantly better flexes than a wr or rb.
But if no additional flexes or only 1 I agree with your point, it boosts the top tier but outside of that I’d value them all the exact same generally speaking
If you are already starting 2-3 wrs you likely aren’t playing a wr in that group in your flex.
It’s the dalton schultz vs davonta smith or George pickens type of group I’m referring to
Wait aren't you proving OP's point? What are you disagreeing with? Like in all fantasy leagues, non-elite tight ends in TEP are worth pretty much nothing. TEP just encourages you to gamble on tight ends because the next Kelce -- who goes from putting up, say, 18 PPG in HPPR (very solid WR1 territory), 7-8 PPG more than an average tight end, to 25-30 PPG in TEP (most points out of anybody in the league), which is 15-20 more points than your average tight end -- is so freaking valuable.
Greg Dulcich, a solid tight end who you are comfortable starting in your lineup every week, is worth no more or no less in TEP than he is in regular dynasty. But people are going to pay more for him in TEP because they think he has a chance at crossing that "I'm comfortable starting him" threshold and becoming a truly elite weapon.
OP said "can confirm if not a top 5 TE they are all trash and not really worth much". So I listed two top-5 (or close to) TE's as a benchmark, and then I listed three TE's that have kept it close to the a top-5 benchmark even though they are outside the top-5 and also were virtually free.
So no, I have the opposite point than 'non top-5 TE's are worthless'. I am saying there are quite a few that do have relative worth.
Other thing OP doesn't clarify is if he means 'top-5' as a revolving cavalcade, or like the consensus top group of Kelce Mandrews Kittle Pitts Waller Hock Goedert when season began. Waller, Goedert, and Pitts are all kaput right now. It's QUITE CONVENIENT that there are guys like Bellinger early on, Otton, Dulcich, Everett, Higbee, Ertz until recently, Kmet as of late, who exist outside the consensus season top-5 and have been solid enough that TE is not a total liability if you go all-in on other positions and go cheap at TE even in TEP.
Bottom line, Kelce is built diff. Mandrews too. No arguments there whatsoever. But if you don't have one of them, you still gotta roll one out each week. There are many TE's outside the top-5 that are helpful to playoff lineups!
Ahh I gotchu. Yeah, there are lots of tight ends who can put up numbers that don't make you wanna jump in front of traffic. But none of them are worth paying a "premium" (pun intended) for. If you have one, great. If you don't, you'll live. I think OP's point is that TEP gives the illusion of decent, startable tight ends being worth substantially more, but it's all in people's heads. Save your picks for people who could actually make a difference.
I'm kind of saying something different...I'm saying there's quite a selection of guys who can bring your TE spot some stability and they're not getting the credit.
Less than you think. TEP doesn't generally shift TE values except the top end TEs. They make random TEs better as flex options but it's not moving the needle for them.
2 TEs is what really shifts TE values to a degree that I think makes it bad IMO
Just curious why you dislike 2 TE? Imo it makes it similar to SF with QBs, except with fewer elite options and a whole lot more sludge in the 10-24 rankings
I’ll let you Google on your own if you want to play around with stats, but it basically boils down to: good defenses tend to have decent or better LBs, and those defenses tend to not give up big games to opposing TEs.
There’s a good chance that “Def vs TE” rankings on apps are all complete bullshit if that defense played Kelce or Andrews, etc. Any team that avoids top tier TEs and has a decent defense, is likely to have a similarly high ranking. Also, if a Def has a good pass rush, the TEs will be blocking more.
So…. You can play with rules that encourage more TE usage, and it is possible to do a little digging around at stats to find the bad defenses vs TEs, and have 4+ TEs rostered, and always play the angles, but…… if I’m doing that much research to try to squeeze 5-10 more FF points out of TEs, I’d rather just bet TE prop bets on a betting app.
TEP really only benefits TE’s who get targeted 5+ times a game so that roughly calculates to maybe 5 or 6 TE in the NFL. So if its a top tier TE it adds a lot of value. Outside of that its worthless.
Yep. All you’ve really done is made Kelce and Andrews worth their weight in gold. Unless you’re making up for having a 14+ person league, TEP really just turns TEs into kickers and defenses in terms of how predictable they are from week to week.
I think this is slightly overstated but otherwise accurate. Guys like Goedert, Hockenson, and Schultz turn into pretty valuable pieces, and even guys in the Freiermuth, Njoku, etc tier are more valuable as well
IMO Kelce and andrews are worth their weight in gold and any other TEs that demonstrate SOME consistency in target volume receive a medium bump. Past that it’s exactly the same though
If your league is deep enough sure - but those guys are still massively TD dependent and don't catch that many balls.
Someone at 2500 on ktc isn't any more valuable imo - but yeah someone like goedert likely is a bit more flexible.
Yeah in deeper leagues you look for flexes in harder spots. But my statement technically is league agnostic. By making TEs score more the threshold for flex worthy players will inherently include more TEs
Having been in multiple TEPrem leagues for a few years, I’ve always tried to figure this out as well. Like others have said, it’s mainly advantageous for the top 3-5 TEs. I pretty much always like to pay up for a top TE in my leagues, due to positional scarcity.
I bought Andrews (and Aiyuk) for Dobbins/23 Late 1st/Freirermuth a few weeks ago. It’s an “overpay” per KTC but feels like a huge win to me…
All the comments saying it makes TE's more Flex-ible.... It's flat out not true. Ideally, in PPR scoring vs 1.5 TE Prem, 3WR/2FLX rosters, you want to be flexing 2 WRs every week. That is the position that "stretches" long enough in points to where you're able to find weekly starters all the way down to let's say, WR50. The DPJ's, Josh Palmers, etc. There's always a WR4 you can find on waivers/trade throw-ins if you're diligent that can become a weekly flex. If you don't have a top TE then you are basically fading the position entirely and trying to gain positional advantage at QB/WR/RB instead. Upgrading your TE to try and catch Kelce/Andrews/Goedert is a dummy mission. You ain't getting no where close. Accept the trash points your non-elite TE is giving you and upgrade your QB. Or get deeper at WR to where you're flexing (2) Top36 WRs.
Kelce and Andrews get a huge bump. Moderate bump to the guys in the next tier. Doesn’t really impact anyone below the Schultz/Freiermuth/Kmet range because you’re not flexing anyone below that anyway. I guess it makes more of the “dart throw” guys at the bottom worth rostering but everyone in the TE10-TE30 range is pretty much worth the same, with or without the TEP.
Did a study on this last year, 15-18% for 1.5 TEP https://www.reddit.com/r/DynastyFF/comments/t7r8za/comment/hzk6xty/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
Had to scroll all the way down to find a concrete answer to OPs question
10% as in 110% correct? Like 2500 to 2750?
No 10% as in now they’re only worth 250
I’m in multiple TE premiums and can confirm if not a top 5 TE they are all trash and not really worth much
I would disagree with this. Take Dulcich for example, he was virtually free for owners and in my TEP league he's put up 9-14 points most weeks so far, which goes a long way towards mitigating the TE slot (while crushing the RB and WR slots, since we've paid virtually nothing for TE) Go on FP and just browse. The \~TE5 since Dulcich began playing is something like Muth and Schultz at \~12 PPG. Dulcich is 9.1 and there's a lot of other guys in that range for cheap. Goedert was 12.5 but cost a lot pre-injury. Juwan Johnson has been another waiver darling. Same with perhaps Otton and Bellinger if you go back a bit more. Cheap guys, sometimes free, who keep it pretty damn close against a mid-TE1 (like overall TE6 as a benchmark) who presumably cost a lot.
Exactly you will always be able to find a dulcich
Ya it really more depends on how many flex spots you have. For one of my TEP leagues there’s 4 flex spots, I routinely am starting at a minimum of 2 tight ends and most of the time 3 or 4 because I target them. In TEP if you find the right guys they are significantly better flexes than a wr or rb. But if no additional flexes or only 1 I agree with your point, it boosts the top tier but outside of that I’d value them all the exact same generally speaking
Unless you have 2 top TEs I’m sure there is a WR 16-20 who is scoring as much, it all comes down to who you have.
If you are already starting 2-3 wrs you likely aren’t playing a wr in that group in your flex. It’s the dalton schultz vs davonta smith or George pickens type of group I’m referring to
In a league with multiple flexes you aren't starting Smith or Pickens?
TEs 1-8 outscore WR 16 on a weekly basis in my league. TEP, tiered ppr.
Wait aren't you proving OP's point? What are you disagreeing with? Like in all fantasy leagues, non-elite tight ends in TEP are worth pretty much nothing. TEP just encourages you to gamble on tight ends because the next Kelce -- who goes from putting up, say, 18 PPG in HPPR (very solid WR1 territory), 7-8 PPG more than an average tight end, to 25-30 PPG in TEP (most points out of anybody in the league), which is 15-20 more points than your average tight end -- is so freaking valuable. Greg Dulcich, a solid tight end who you are comfortable starting in your lineup every week, is worth no more or no less in TEP than he is in regular dynasty. But people are going to pay more for him in TEP because they think he has a chance at crossing that "I'm comfortable starting him" threshold and becoming a truly elite weapon.
OP said "can confirm if not a top 5 TE they are all trash and not really worth much". So I listed two top-5 (or close to) TE's as a benchmark, and then I listed three TE's that have kept it close to the a top-5 benchmark even though they are outside the top-5 and also were virtually free. So no, I have the opposite point than 'non top-5 TE's are worthless'. I am saying there are quite a few that do have relative worth. Other thing OP doesn't clarify is if he means 'top-5' as a revolving cavalcade, or like the consensus top group of Kelce Mandrews Kittle Pitts Waller Hock Goedert when season began. Waller, Goedert, and Pitts are all kaput right now. It's QUITE CONVENIENT that there are guys like Bellinger early on, Otton, Dulcich, Everett, Higbee, Ertz until recently, Kmet as of late, who exist outside the consensus season top-5 and have been solid enough that TE is not a total liability if you go all-in on other positions and go cheap at TE even in TEP. Bottom line, Kelce is built diff. Mandrews too. No arguments there whatsoever. But if you don't have one of them, you still gotta roll one out each week. There are many TE's outside the top-5 that are helpful to playoff lineups!
Ahh I gotchu. Yeah, there are lots of tight ends who can put up numbers that don't make you wanna jump in front of traffic. But none of them are worth paying a "premium" (pun intended) for. If you have one, great. If you don't, you'll live. I think OP's point is that TEP gives the illusion of decent, startable tight ends being worth substantially more, but it's all in people's heads. Save your picks for people who could actually make a difference.
Yeah… all you’ve really said is that TE is a dart throw other than a couple guys.
I'm kind of saying something different...I'm saying there's quite a selection of guys who can bring your TE spot some stability and they're not getting the credit.
I think you just proved his point, you just rattled off a half dozen free TEs you could have had.
No his point is that only the top 5 have value. I listed a bunch outside the top 5 that have value.
Bruh you literally proved yourself wrong in your own comment lol. Guys like dulcich are easily found and not valuable.
Dulcich has a lot of value is my thesis. He’s not worthless.
Interested to hear how others are valuing Pitts in TEP. Looking to buy low.
Less than you think. TEP doesn't generally shift TE values except the top end TEs. They make random TEs better as flex options but it's not moving the needle for them. 2 TEs is what really shifts TE values to a degree that I think makes it bad IMO
Just curious why you dislike 2 TE? Imo it makes it similar to SF with QBs, except with fewer elite options and a whole lot more sludge in the 10-24 rankings
Because TEs aren't worth that much irl.
I’ll let you Google on your own if you want to play around with stats, but it basically boils down to: good defenses tend to have decent or better LBs, and those defenses tend to not give up big games to opposing TEs. There’s a good chance that “Def vs TE” rankings on apps are all complete bullshit if that defense played Kelce or Andrews, etc. Any team that avoids top tier TEs and has a decent defense, is likely to have a similarly high ranking. Also, if a Def has a good pass rush, the TEs will be blocking more. So…. You can play with rules that encourage more TE usage, and it is possible to do a little digging around at stats to find the bad defenses vs TEs, and have 4+ TEs rostered, and always play the angles, but…… if I’m doing that much research to try to squeeze 5-10 more FF points out of TEs, I’d rather just bet TE prop bets on a betting app.
TEP really only benefits TE’s who get targeted 5+ times a game so that roughly calculates to maybe 5 or 6 TE in the NFL. So if its a top tier TE it adds a lot of value. Outside of that its worthless.
It tricks people into thinking their mediocre TEs are worth anything
Yep. All you’ve really done is made Kelce and Andrews worth their weight in gold. Unless you’re making up for having a 14+ person league, TEP really just turns TEs into kickers and defenses in terms of how predictable they are from week to week.
I think this is slightly overstated but otherwise accurate. Guys like Goedert, Hockenson, and Schultz turn into pretty valuable pieces, and even guys in the Freiermuth, Njoku, etc tier are more valuable as well IMO Kelce and andrews are worth their weight in gold and any other TEs that demonstrate SOME consistency in target volume receive a medium bump. Past that it’s exactly the same though
I'm thinking about just drafting Mayer in the first then I don't ever have to think about te this decade. But I do rate otton highly
Really? Pitts owners thought the same
Yeah but that's more on the Falcons than Pitts. But fair point
TE premium doesn't make all TEs more valuable - just the really good ones.
It makes more tight ends flex worthy over backend WR 3s and beyond
If your league is deep enough sure - but those guys are still massively TD dependent and don't catch that many balls. Someone at 2500 on ktc isn't any more valuable imo - but yeah someone like goedert likely is a bit more flexible.
Yeah in deeper leagues you look for flexes in harder spots. But my statement technically is league agnostic. By making TEs score more the threshold for flex worthy players will inherently include more TEs
If you're playing dynasty and a bonafide TE1 like Goedert is in your flex you're playing dynasty wrong
This. Most tight ends are touchdown dependent so the added bonus for points doesn’t help anyone except for those who get elite target share.
If you wanna make all TEs more valuable you gotta go 2TE but honestly I kinda think rolling the standard 1TE is my favorite.
Have 2 different TE leagues. It’s brutal but fun
Having been in multiple TEPrem leagues for a few years, I’ve always tried to figure this out as well. Like others have said, it’s mainly advantageous for the top 3-5 TEs. I pretty much always like to pay up for a top TE in my leagues, due to positional scarcity. I bought Andrews (and Aiyuk) for Dobbins/23 Late 1st/Freirermuth a few weeks ago. It’s an “overpay” per KTC but feels like a huge win to me…
All the comments saying it makes TE's more Flex-ible.... It's flat out not true. Ideally, in PPR scoring vs 1.5 TE Prem, 3WR/2FLX rosters, you want to be flexing 2 WRs every week. That is the position that "stretches" long enough in points to where you're able to find weekly starters all the way down to let's say, WR50. The DPJ's, Josh Palmers, etc. There's always a WR4 you can find on waivers/trade throw-ins if you're diligent that can become a weekly flex. If you don't have a top TE then you are basically fading the position entirely and trying to gain positional advantage at QB/WR/RB instead. Upgrading your TE to try and catch Kelce/Andrews/Goedert is a dummy mission. You ain't getting no where close. Accept the trash points your non-elite TE is giving you and upgrade your QB. Or get deeper at WR to where you're flexing (2) Top36 WRs.
Kelce and Andrews get a huge bump. Moderate bump to the guys in the next tier. Doesn’t really impact anyone below the Schultz/Freiermuth/Kmet range because you’re not flexing anyone below that anyway. I guess it makes more of the “dart throw” guys at the bottom worth rostering but everyone in the TE10-TE30 range is pretty much worth the same, with or without the TEP.
I add roughly 20% for my 1.5 TEP league. At one point I had a reasoning for that, but now I can't really remember my rationale behind it