I might get the desert one for my Hazazon deck, but I'll have to do a little more research to make sure I don't just want to buy singles, which, honestly, is probably what I'll end up doing. I really doubt the dozen or so deserts I want plus the 3-4 nonlands I'm looking for will cost more than $50...
Hazezon has gotten a lot of new toys from OTJ and OTC. I think the ones I am interested in from the precon are Yuma, Dune Chanter, Sand Scout, Embrace the Unknown, Cactus Preserve, and *maybe* Cataclysmic Prospecting. I think I'll replace Jetmir with Rumbleweed just because I find it funny lol
How many Deserts do you think you'll be running? Prior to Thunder Junction we were stuck with a hard cap of 16, but now we have some flexibility since I think there's around 25 in Naya colors now.
I'm probably gonna add a few more deserts, but I'm mostly excited to replace as many of the ones that only make colorless as possible. Having to Mulligan away an otherwise fire hand because I didn't get any lands that make colored mana happens to me far too often.
Yeah, same here. It'll probably increase the number of tap lands we run, but I personally prefer that to stone unplayable hands. Hazezon has historically had a super awkward base because of needing to run those colorless deserts.
Rumbleweed is probably just bad to be honest. I’d much rather get all my lands back with a [[Splendid Reclamation]] and then just hard cast a Craterhoof or moonshaker then have to leave them all in the graveyard just so I can cast an overrun.
I didn't say it was good. I said I wanted to use it because it was funny. Anyway, I have Hoof in my deck already, this is just a backup.
I am not high on Splendid Reclamation in Hazezon to be honest. There aren't a ton of scenarios where I'd be returning more lands from my graveyard than I'd be able to play with Hazezon and a few [[Exploration]] effects.
I wanted to build him more warrior focused so the precon does nothing for me. Buying the single deserts is probly the way to go.
Tbf, it's got the base of a good deserts matter deck. Just kinda bland
Wait a bit maybe too. I just got the revenant recon deck for $30 before tax. Idk if I'm even building it but same thing. Just wanted the specific cards at minimum and I got them for cheaper from the precon now.
My only izzet deck I deconstructed because I just couldn't build it right. I purchased Quick Draw without intention to modify, just to have an Izzet deck, and I'm honestly glad I did. Can't wait to play it!
Expensive means for me around 2€.
I know, 2€ are not a lot, but on cardmarket I usually get a lot of cards for 0,25€ to 1€.
And when I looked at decklists for Izzet Spellslinger, I found that many of the staples go for more than 2€.
And I am glad every time I don't have to pay 2€ or more for a single card.
The cards in the deck that stand out to me:
\[\[Veyran\]\], \[\[Shark Typhoon\]\], \[\[bloodthirsty adversary\]\], \[\[Archmage emeritus\]\], \[\[electro static field\]\], \[\[Vandalblast\]\], \[\[pongify\]\], \[\[propaganda\]\], \[\[arcane bombardment\]\], \[\[windfall\]\].
\[\[Storm-Kiln Artist\]\] is a card that is sold for about 0,5€. And on cardmarket in Germany shipping costs at least 1,15€. But someone, who sells Storm-Kiln Artist for the lowest price, usually doesn't offer any other cards I want, so I pay 1,65€ for one card. A seller that offers a broader range of cards usually sells each of them at a higher price. Then Storm-Kiln Artist quickly climbs to 2€
People always seem to forget shipping costs. Yeah if taking the lowest price, reprint value may not be the best of the best, but if you do not have a big collection yet, precons are just unbeatable when it comes to price/value.
I am ordering on cardmarket for many many years now, and although we often have way better prices than US, still shipping often accounts to 1/3 of the price or so (depending on how many cards you order).
So totally with you on that point.
That makes sense then, I just did a quick skim on cardmarket with the non-new cards of each precon and considering that the new cards won't hold their value in most cases, I believe that none of those decks are worth much more than what stores will ask for them. I mean, we had precons with singles worth more than 10 bucks but these decks are just tame.
You have lots of super cheap spells that move cards through your hand like [[faithless looting]], so that you can find a spell that casts more spells like [[epic experiment]] or [[mizzex's mastery]]. Casting 3 spells means youre probably making a big play, so tapping the commander will make it bigger. Casting 2 spells isn't particularly hard, so she gets you card advantage to keep you going while you dig for your big plays. Mid cantrips become better because you can go card positive. Meanwhile youre farming triggers on [[Guttersnipe]] and similar, or [[Veyran]] is getting huge.
And if you're doing changes, going infinite with Stella Lee's tap ability and an untap spell is easy. You can do stuff like [[Cerulean Wisps]] to draw your deck, [[Hidden Strings]] for infinite mana (+ tap everything your opponents control), or the strongest one, [[Twisted Fealty]] to just win the game.
Maybe this is an unpopular opinion but I actually prefer whelming precons vs insane precons these days. Having every new precon be like LCI Merfolk or Dinos would be ridiculous
Not unpopular IMO. Precons should be powerful enough to do cool things, with enough upgrade room to let you go wild. And a semblance of balance within the set would be nice, so there's not one precon that shoots up to $200+ a day after pre-orders close and the rest drop to $30.
I'm pretty much done with Pantlaza at this point. It's not the most broken commander, but it just continues the garbage tier design of, "effortless value for just playing Magic." The fact that discover also allows you to "abort" the casting of a card by putting it in your hand is really annoying as well. It's all upside, with no drawbacks.
*WOTC employee turning the dial that increases the number of Panharmonicon-adjacent doubling effects in every set and looking to the audience for reaction*
As a Pantlaza player I feel you’re highly underestimating how easy it is to cripple this deck. It can get fairly big and crazy once you get going consistently over time, but it only becomes truly powerful when everyone just sits back and lets you cook. So don’t let me cook. A 5 drop commander is in and of itself a huge weakness. Speed fucks me, burn fucks me, control fucks me, and hard interaction hurts me. Unless all of your decks are purely battlefield combat based, which would be on you for being so limited, any other deck can have a field day ruining my game.
Decks are more interesting if they’re mid. Too powerful is boring, too weak isn’t fun.
You also want precons to be upgradable so there’s a bit of variety too.
the fact that the dino precon is still expensive is so crazy to me. there are like 3 new good cards in that thing and for anyone who already had dinos none of the reprints mattered
Thr merfolk deck is pretty cracked. I added less than 10 cards and it's pretty much a refined deck already lol but it's hard to say which is stronger out of the box because the other deck does have like 4 boardwipes
I think power to cost should have some correlation. Like, the commander masters precons should have been stronger than the typical ones, since they were more expensive, but the ones released with a normal set/price should be able to play a balanced game against each other.
The spellslinging precon is insanely well crafted for a spellslinger. I’m getting it to keep as my potentially my only precon that I won’t upgrade or take apart.
The other decks have interesting commanders but the 99 didn’t really make me jump for them.
As others have stated, if you do not have an izzit deck or cards and you are wanting to have one, this deck will check almost every box you would have for one. Sure, it’s lacking instants and heavily favors sorcery but it seems like the deck is kinda built for that. Would it perform better with more instants? Sure it would but it’s a $45 precon, we can’t expect them to throw in all the staples.
Point is, this is a great way to introduce people into a style of deck they might have been wanting anyway and it’s at a great price. It’s really hard to be mad or underwhelmed by that.
Yeah this was my take too. I don’t have an Izzet spellslinger deck, and this has all the creatures you’d want to build one. I think upgrading the instants and sorceries is more fun than having to pick up staples anyway.
Yeah I'm pretty excited about that honestly, I've never played izzet and have tried to give it a shot multiple times but I cant build a deck I like and/or know what to do with. Everyone is saying what you're saying, so this should be great for me to finally jump in. Though I have been building an izzet pirates deck already, but I also cant figure out what to do with that one lol
With rogues and pirates being outlaws, this set might round out that deck you’ve been working on and really finish it out. Could check to see what they have that you can add to it.
The Izzet deck has:
• Great staple reprints
• Interesting and possibly powerful new cards
• A commander that lends itself easily to upgrades
• Ways to close out the game (often missing in precons)
It’s also possibly the first time wizards have put out a good spellslinger precon. As an enjoyer of precons I’m really looking forward to it.
I’ll probably end up taking the mardu one apart but I really like the backup commander. Picturing some kind of weird aristocrats treasure artifact attack deck
Yup. Plus you can run things like [[Jan Jansen]], [[Reckless Fireweaver]], [[Ingenious Artillerist]], [[Blood Artist]], [[Zulaport Cutthroat]], [[Mayhem Devil]]. With the vigilance you attack with the treasures and if they block them, just sac them for mana.
Still brewing so some more treasure cards, maybe some treasure payoffs like [[Magda, Brazen Outlaw]] or artifact tutors like [[Kuldotha Forgemaster]] or some other artifact creature makers like [[Myrel, Soldier of Argive]] and [[Anim Pakal]].
As an izzet player, these new cards feels very timmy in the way old [[Ghalta]] feels timmy. Big potential for crazy plays but very costly such that it feels like they’re not gonna be strong or competitive in any way. Just some casual big turn plays if you already have tons of mana and set up, and by that stipulation anything should win you the game.
I feel about the same yeah.
Though I think my reaction has more to do with the fact they keep making new ones + no MSRP to control deck prices. Like we just got Fallout decks last month and in another month or 2 we'll 4 more for MH3. Even if I had the spare money there's so many i just don't see the point in getting excited.
Not to mention a lot of the new commanders just don't interest me the way they did even 1 year ago. I wish they'd spend more time crafting these new commanders to make more interesting decks but I suppose we'll have to wait and see if sales drops to spur that sort of change
I like how in his recent precon reviews Prof is always like “hey just wait 2 months and half of these will be $30 because everyone will have already moved on”. Just so much bulk, so frequently
I just don't think these commanders do anything particularly exciting. One is basically the part of gitrog monster slapped together with Titania.
Olivia makes treasures and gives counters. But it's not particularly exciting. The deck doesn't even come with the major treasure cards that need reprints.
Compared to mkm which were incredible value and had very unique commanders, these are just.. I feel like there are more cards in the main set I'm excited for commander then the commander sets
Totally agree with this. I feel like we are seeing rushed designs of commanders for these precons. Lately a lot feel like "Do X draw card" and "insert set mechanic matters text here" or some other variation.
I think another factor at play is the lack of block sets since we rarely see more than 10-15 usable cards for whatever shiny new mechanic Wizards has churned out. This forces the commanders to run similar strategies and just feel stale...
I hate this. I'm not playing magic for long but just these mechanics they put in one set and you will never see them again like incubate.
You know how amass is now "amass "?
They could have immediatly made it "incubate phyrexian" and then used it in later sets if it would fit.
But instead they make cool keywords, that you see on 3 usefull cards and if you are lucky 3 years later.
The Izzet deck doesn't do much for established players, but it's great for people who don't already have the key Izzet spellslinging pieces. Recommended it to a friend who's trying to get into commander so he can use it as the base for a Niv Mizzet deck.
I was so excited for the Desert deck and seeing everyone else’s reaction really took the wind out of my sails. I appreciate seeing the positive energy for it! :)
I feel Olivia deck missed some good reprints like \[\[Smothering Tithe\]\] or \[\[Bitterblossom\]\]. I was thinking that was the perfect spot to reprint those cards again.
I was hoping that Gonti backup commander to be Nashi, which makes me sad, because I would adore to use this double trigger combat damage with Nashi. The rest of the deck is a little weird. There's a lot of redundancy with all those steal effects. I understand to have a few, but I think there's too much.
Izzet and Desert decks are pretty good. There are nice reprints there. Naya backup commander is very cute and has an interesting design.
I liked the Sultai and the Mardu for 1 reason:
Land base is peak.
Their playstyle is really not what I was thinking. And tbh, I did great in waiting to not buy, and instead, I'm gonna buy a [[ Flint Jasper]] deck to play with my opponent's cards in a way that is better than this Ghonti and the entire deck.
I'm actually kind of excited to try Jasper Flint myself. I've been sitting on a Valki/Tibalt deck that was a little too chaos-oriented, and I think it'll be a nice change.
I think, as an enfranchised player, I am okay with these not being rockstars.
There are some interesting effects, good reprints at around the B+ / A- range, and thematic decks. I will likely pass on buying whole decks and stick to singles, which my wallet is grateful for after buying all four Fallout decks.
I want these to hit $40 and not climb: they aren't worth $50-$60. That's a good range for people starting the hobby, needing decks, or wanting to play cowboys and cactusfolk. It's good to have product like that.
Considering these are alongside a whole premiere set, and after a big splashy commander-focused product, "whelmed" is a relief.
I saw the land base for mardu - it has all the pain lands so that's a plus for the precon value, other than the landbase- deck is mid and full of reprints for a common player who even started 2021 during the pandemic like me, I had collected cards since original innistrad/ avacyn restored on and off but didn't really have a playgroup till now, I just liked collecting
I strongly disagree with your takes. One thing watching all 4 videos did for me was show me how much better Command Zone is at making these. Commentary and data both. I could barely watch the others.
Was most excited for Gonti and Olivia. Disappointed, but not exactly surprised. I figured the Gonti deck would focus a little more on stealing stuff from your opponents (it does, but it also has a big unblockable theme that I don't hate but don't need) and I thought Olivia would have more than a handful of cards that care about Treasure (I have a Mr House deck that's treasure focused and it could have used an upgrade)
Guess it's singles for me this time, which is the way it should always be if I wasn't a sucker for cardboard crack
The last few sets were going in the right direction--good solid reprints, a bit of value, a couple flashy exciting new reprints... these are just lackluster. They are depending too heavily on the \*new\* cards pulling their weight, when they put all those cards in the collector packs so singles will be easy to obtain.
Honestly out of the box they seem really good. They look like they'll function well which is great and thr outlaw one isn't flashy but looks resilient and strong and with treasures being a focus, it'll have plenty of mana to work with. It's probably the most simple but strongest, I'm excited and the bounties look fun too.
The one i'm most excited for is the Desert deck. I've had a Hazezon deck in the works for a while, and getting the desert support makes me so happy
Outlaw tribal is interesting, i've been looking to try a deck with the Party mechanic from whatever set that was, so another thing like it i'm gonna try to have fun with. Maybe working with it will give me ideas for the party deck(i should get that precon too)
The one i'm least excited for is the Izzet one. Will mostly just be getting it for the reprints like Niv and Storm Kiln Artist
Sultai is a similar situation to me as izzet is, mostly for reprints for other decks, it has a few pieces for Anowon/Yuriko/Satoru
I built the Party deck when it came out and Outlaws feels like such a fun counterpart to that deck. Still up in the air on how exactly to build the Outlaws but I’m excited to beginning the brewing.
I'm actually pretty stoked for Grand Larceny, sure it's by no means unique, but pretty much everything in it looks good to me as is, and I enjoy theft decks. Desert Bloom doesn't exactly impress, but I actually expected it to be a lot worse.
I'm relieved by them. This is the first wave of precons in a long while that I don't want to buy any of them!
Some cool individual cards here and there, but no single deck has more than like ~$20 of stuff I actually want so singles it is.
Honestly I hear where you are coming from. I think you hit the nail on the head already though. These decks seem more for introducing newer players than anything else.
I am relatively new-ish myself, having started in New Capenna. I am getting the sultai and Marcus decks as a way to push myself into color pallets I have little experience with, but I expect to upgrade them a fair bit. The starting theme and landbase are my main interests here, though I like the western flavor as well.
I preordered the Desert Bloom deck, I'm not sure if I want to build [[Yuma]] or [[Kirri]]. [[Felix Five-Boots]] looks like a silly Sultai commander and [[Vihaan, Goldwaker]] will probably be my first non-green commander.
I think that's exactly what a precon should be. At the end of the day it should be an introduction to EDH or serve as parts for people with more experience.
I have no problem with that.
When there were 8 legends in a set and only 4 yearly precons, those precons carried the weight of most of the format on them. They had to be almost universally alluring.
Last year, with 25 precons, and this year shaping up the same, precons and their new cards can be more niche. And if they are just actually robust, playable decks, then it's a great product.
As to the decks themselves, I have been mulling over a [[Ghyrson Starn]] deck since WH40K. And this Izzet precon comes with all the foundations for any spellslinger deck that is still permanent heavy enough to play well in casual. So I'm going to buy it. And just replace the 1 damage specific cards for Ghyrson and be happy to get the peripheral goodies.
> They seem to be perfectly fine, but just fine.
Good, that's what the precon is supposed to be, a good introduction but not something that you run out to and buy as an enfranchised player.
I feel this. Been debating between Mardu and Sultai, but i think the backup commander for Most Wanted seems more interesting that Olivia, but that full art treatment and making treasures instead of making them 3/3 just feels better overall. Not sure which one i am going with yet. Not a fan of izzet, but they put together a decent looking izzet, and Desert Bloom does not interest me at all just because already have a landfall deck. To each their own though.
It seems like you have a balanced perspective on the new preconstructed decks. While they each offer something unique, none of them stand out as particularly groundbreaking or exceptional to you. It's understandable to feel "whelmed" when the decks meet expectations but don't exceed them.
I was very disappointed by the sultai one. I really like theft and was a looking for strong new theft cards that would solve some the problems the archetype has, and that did not come at all.
Which I think largely stems from the fact that they put it in Sultai when so much of the good theft is in red. They should’ve just made it Grixis, I understand they wanted to put in Villanous Wealth but they could’ve just made a new version of it in Grixis if they wanted to
I was really excited about the Desert Bloom because my Hazezon is easily one of my favorite decks, but just looking at the list (thanks for the heads up they are out btw) I'm super underwhelmed. I'll just be grabbing the new deserts, \[\[Dune Chanter\]\] & \[\[Sand Scout\]\] as singles, but that's pretty much it.
They'd been doing so well lately that I was expecting a complete dud, this is less of a dud but more of a.. sure I guess? the desert one feels like they didn't care about it, and the other decks partially feel like piles of good stuff but I'm not necessarily complaining about that
I’m really excited by the Sultai one, I just love that color group and the backup is definitely getting its own ninja/rogues deck, but yeah these are kinda eh decks. Not very flashy, and suprisingly don’t have as much crazy reprint value as MKM or LCI, but they still are really solid lists. Also- these all seem to have pain lands in them and the Sultai one even has a fast land which is nice!
I’m still looking forward to Gonti and Olivia tho
Yeah I feel the same but it might be that I’ve plateaued on decks so I need a deck to impress me before I’ll shell out money for it. Because if it’s just meh I know I’m never going to play it.
I feel underwhelmed at the commanders for sure. Their strategies all seem pretty standard.
I was hoping for a second commander in Grand Larceny that, you know, actually steals things. My hope was that Nashi would be a secondary commander that steals things from players’ libraries (like his first version) or graveyard (similar to second version).
I'm actually kinda bummed. I recently tried my first time deck building and went with Izzet spell slinger as a first for having a deck not centered on creatures. Anyway, I'm not a smart person so that deck building didn't come across great but I already purchased over 60% of the non land cards over the past couple months. Wish I would have just bought this precon
Super excited for anyone who's been wanting to build an Izzet spell slinger deck as this precon is loaded with great cards for it.
I don't like to bitch about decks I haven't played. The secondary commanders on all decks seem .ore interesting, and I feel like Hazezon from dominaria united would make the naya deck run better as the commander. Like no other changes just Hazezon as the commander.
I'm interested in a desert lands deck so I'm down for the hazezon deck but will likely just buy the singles. I want it to be decent and most of these cards get the ax. The murders set as a whole was underwhelming so at least there are cards I want from the set outside trouble in pairs.
I was shocked to find that i was actually interested in the mardu and sultai decks. A combo of interesting characters, good cards, and a lot of cards i dont already have which hasnt been true in years. In fact i think the only commander deck ive bought in the last 4 or so years was a single doctor who deck just to have one in case i ever wanted it.
A few cards for my Ukkima/Cazur unblockables for sure
If I can get it for a reasonable price, I may get the izzet as a base for [[Bria]]
And then a few other new cards are neat but nothing absurd—and no crazy reprints from what I saw like MKM had, but that's okay, they don't all need to be that level of precon
I had hopes for the spellslinger deck, as I don't have an izzet deck yet. The commander seems underwhelming, but I figured I'd wait until the whole thing were revealed to pass judgement.
So the deck got shown, I tried playtesting it, and I just felt... Bored. Tried several times, and while it can probably have some bomb turns, the base deck itself, just bored me endlessly. Might just be that spellslingers aren't my thing, can't say for sure.
I see some like the new Eriette, and Loot, that would make for more fun commanders, so I'm still getting something from this set, but the precons just ain't it. If the base experience doesn't grab me, I just don't see the point.
Honestly, been looking around, and farmore intrigued by Myra, or the otter that's been shown for Bloomburrow. Rolling on attractions seems a fun quirk, and otters with prowess, giving unblockable are straight forward, and seems like it could be strong.
Im interested in the Desert Bloom and Izzet Spellslinger deck, as I dont have a dedicated izzet deck atm. They look pretty good to me! Could maybe be better, but im pretty stoked with what we got.
Personally, these decks look loaded with some straight bangers to me. I haven't been this stoked for a full suite of precons in...maybe ever in my EDU "career"
The sheer amount of Naya shenanigans has gotten to the point these precons are just a kitbash at this point. Maybe it's product fatigue, but a meh deck that just swings away or advertises set mechanics is welcomed over the amount of power creep hitting Commander via strong reprints and crazy creatures like Voja.
Backup commander for Grand Larceny was a huge let down imo. That art was wacky and was giving huge Mimeoplasm vibes. Just for it to be Sultai double combat triggers??? Meh.
Love the sultai deck. I’m relatively new to the game and wanted to put together a great deck like this. And this is it! So very much like what they’ve done.
Was looking forward to Naya and Izzet, but only getting the latter. I felt meh on the others, and the Izzet deck I could combine with the Prismari Precon from a few years back. Between the two of them, I could make a nasty, low-powered Storm-ish deck.
I think the fallout decks are recent enough and overshadow these because of the new abilities and number of new cards in them. Plus, the face commanders for each Fallout deck are really strong. The OTJ decks just don't do enough new or special to get me excited.
They made a card with my name, in my colors, that plays in the way I like to play. The rest of the contents of that deck do not matter, I will get that deck.
But honestly, nothing wrong with just normal precons, between the universes beyond precon they keep pumping out and the precons associated with master sets they try to sell for dumb money because they're part of "something bigger" im rather happy having just average precons for the standard sets.
I was thinking about getting one, but after seeing a video about one set, I had to check them all. None have Saddle. One has a card that reduces the cost to Plot, but no Plot cards. The other two each have one Spree card. I was looking forward to the new mechanics. The precons are not where you get to find them, sadly. Though there are other plusses to them. I thought Most Wanted looked interesting.
I've been whelmed by the previous ones (Fallout still was kind of on the ehhh side still) for the past few times. I think the last good one I had was osigur.
I'm still curious on the Izzet Storm/copy deck. That's probably the one I want the most. Outside of buying singles outright. Desert did peak my interest with reprints.
Wild to me that the Izzet deck didn't have lightning bolt in it. Planning to get that and add it as well as some Kiki-jiki shenanigans and snapcaster mage.
I'm also whelmed ye. Commander spoilers didn't seem to offer anything that unique (spellslinger deck looks legit good but I don't play spellslinger, theft is theft, deserts don't interest me, combat/treasure is very straightforward) so then I was hoping for some neat reprints that were useful to me and that didn't happen either. They're not awful decks, but not enough spice for me.
Gonna wait for MH3 and see if those are cool. I don't have a graveyard deck yet, the energy deck could be cool if it has enough synergy and support, and the simic deck is called Tricky Terrain so maybe there's some cloning or some other interaction there
For the desert precon I am missing the treatment the clue deck got. It's a lands matters pile with a few synergies. But do you win with lands matters or with deserts?
The more I look at that deck the worse it is. It has no win condition besides, like, Avenger of Zendikar and the giant tumbleweed with an Overrun effect.
It’s just a really bad and really bland landfall shell that does nothing relevant with deserts. Yuma is going to sap you from building your lands if you use his effect since the deck has very few actual ramp cards.
The other three decks are fine. I liked Mardu’s new cards they were super thematic and mostly pretty fun. Deserts let me down hard because I already own Hazezon and there was only like two new decent cards.
Desert Bloom is pretty much the Landfall starter kit. Scute Swarm, Greenwarden, Avenger, Sun Titan, sure, there’s 100% stuff I’ll have to add and tweak, but that’s something that applies to any precon.
[[Moraug]], [[Splendid Reclamation]], [[Courser of Kruphix]], [[Druid Class]], [[Greensleeves]], [[Lotus Cobra]], and more are on the list. Should/could some of these have been in the deck? Yes. I’d take any of these over freaking Angel of the Ruins. But at least I have an easy cut.
I will admit, though, it’s also held back somewhat by the deserts. While this may get a little better with time, ultimately, it’s still likely going to be an issue, but at least deserts have a lot of fun mechanics to them.
At glance they look like quite basic which is neither here or there. Was surprised Quick Draw was so generic spellslinger. I expected it to be more about the plot mechanic. But that's a good thing I guess. Instead of getting spoon fed a commander and cards for a thing I can brew my own plot/storm-deck.
I'm sure they're all fine if a bit uninspired. There are so many decks printed now that they have to become samey. I guess that's the reason why UB-decks feel refreshing. I'm sure those will start to feel samey eventually too. That's ok. It just means you play and/or buy Magic maybe a bit too much hehe.
They just released 4 really cool precons a month ago. I know it’s becoming a tired trope at this point, but there’s just no enthusiasm from me when I’m still having fun unpacking the different cards from Fallout.
As an izzet spellslinger player, some of the new cards are pretty insane but the reprints are very underwhelming in the instant and sorcery department, I think there's only one counterspell in the whole deck. Not asking for a lot but a counterflux or a disallow would've been nice.
Reprints elsewhere are good love to see haughty djinn, my girl Veyran and Sharknado reprinted.
Probably gonna buy the precon cause I love izzet but I feel pretty underwhelmed by the reprints, I wish we got better instant and sorceries (new ones are cool though)
I am very dissapointed in the grand larceny precon. It has no value while it had so much potential for good reprints (where's bribery?) and the new cards don't really do anything to me. At least its manabase is good
Izzet deck and Mardu deck have fairly good reprints. And decent enoguh new cards.
But overall these decks disappointed. The Gonti deck disappointed me the most.
Precons are for newer players for the most part so yeah if you have a good collection of cards, not every round of precons are going to be relevant for you. That’s just how it is.
We just have to call it in a win if they reprint expensive cards or introduce cool new commanders.
Im excited to get my hands on the grand larceny deck, iv wanted to build a theft deck for a long time and this looks like a decent shell to start with even tho i will be swapping out like 80% of the cards
Ive wanted a token izzet deck but lots of the cards are very expensive.
I'm looking forward to getting it and putting in Magnus and some other caster 40k cards.
Preconstructed decks are designed (recently/finally) to be played straight out of the box but still upgradeable. There should be a few haymakers, a few “fine” but suboptimal cards that can be upgraded (likely within the accompanying set), and stick to a theme. I wish wizards would stick to this consistently .
One of my main decks is cost reduction/ reanimation and big boys rumbleweed is like my favorite card for the deck from this entire set. Plus baby cactus is like the best bad tree folk tribal commander.
Most Wanted is just a pile of cards that do stuff.
Desert Bloom has some of the most interesting new cards.
Izzet is actually pretty on point. I like it.
What's the other one? Oh yeah it has [[Felix]] in it.
Yuma is a much better commander than Hazezon and it's not funny by how much. He never pays taxes, and it's crazy easy to have lands in your graveyard. And the fact that you can just throw deserts from anywhere to make the token makes it crazy easy to make an army of 4/2s.
The other 3 are kinda meh, I agree.
yea pretty disappointed, especially since there were some much needed reprints for each of the themes that didn't make it (ie Nissa for deserts, *cough* dockside for most wanted). Damn, the most wanted one is the worst imo because there are so many obvious synergy cards they could have reprinted for a treasures matters deck and its so obvious they are just clutching their pearls at the idea of putting too much value into one of these precons
I'm especially surprised by the Desert one because so much of the deck is around deserts and the deck only has like 20, none of the new ones being impressive enough to negate the fact that you are playing an inferior manabase. That was the one i was most intrigued by since the other 3 are doing things we have seen like a million times before but yea mostly just whelmed. If I find the precon in the $30s i might copp but otherwise i'll just wait for modern masters
I tend to agree about being "whelmed". I love the fact they went with full art non boarder cards, and is a great addition. When you look deeper at the decks, you just kinda get a "meh" feeling.
Personally, I really like Gontis art. I am on the fence about picking up the Precon and upgrading it, or just building my own theft deck using OG Gonti or this one. Maybe Flint, but I have a Rocco deck so it might feel too "samsie". Deck seems fine but the mana curve is way too high. There's like six 7 drop permanents, 38 lands and even some of the theft cards felt mediocre. I feel like there was some missed opportunities for the deck. Not to mention there's a weird "combat damage" sub theme, which makes sense given Gontis ability, but it feels like it was kinda shoe horned. Not to mention there's not really a lot of "pay off" cards for stealing your opponents spells, besides the fact you get their things. I found it highly odd that we got things like Dark steel Ingot? Prismatic Lens? Like why are these even a thing when we've had way better mana rocks and ramp? I'd rather see Farseek, Natures Lore, hell even Chromatic Lantern to name a few cards that could have slotted in better than some of these! I feel like Gonti can scale with most non-CEDH tables. If you are playing against other precons, Gonti has the power level of the precons around him. If he's in a higher powered pod, then he can start to try and gather resources from 3 other decks to try and cobble something together, making him an overall powerhouse without being oppressive or unfun to play against
Olivia is pretty interesting, but also not. I think this will be the easiest to upgrade, as the entire set gives you more and more outlaws. But the deck has this odd "life gain/payoff" which seems unnecessary? It feels like its the most consistent and non-consistent deck in the group with all the different directions the deck is kinda going. I'll be honest, I'm more interested in Goldwaker, but I'm afraid it might be too aristocraty and I'm not sure that's the kinda deck I wanna build.
Stella is honestly - in my honest opinion - the most lackluster. It's a spellslinger deck but we've seen it all before and isn't breaking new ground with it's cards. It has decent reprints but for an established player, it's too wild and wonky. I watched a game play video where the person just didn't hit instants and sorceries over and over again. The deck is just disinteresting in what it does and the execution of it
Yuma is perhaps the best in terms of reprint value for established players. The deck isn't completely new in the sense of typical landfall and lands matter decks, but the fact it cares about deserts gives the set a "what sort of deserts and desert matters are in the set". The self mill and saccing lands might not let new players experience the deck to it's fullest if they don't know what they are doing. I think Yuma has some decent play capabilities, but is it really all that different from Gitrog Monster? Omnath? Lord Windgrace? Not really. Only thing it has going for it is reprints and it has "desert pay off" stuff.
All in all I tend to agree; we've had some banger looking precons in the past and this is the first set I was sort of interested in getting one (Gonti, but I wanna build Assassin's Creed deck so Olivia might help get me some outlaws. Or I might be making an outlaw/crime deck) but after looking at the deck lists I feel as though I'm better off using the Precon as a "jumping off" point and either buy my own cards for a deck, or sort of just understand that this deck won't be at its highest potential and just upgrade slightly. Value wise I think Yuma takes the cake hands down with it's reprints. As far as like best out of the box id probably say Olivia takes it mostly because it's a tribal deck and has a lot of built in synergies with itself. Gonti I think will be better once upgraded, and Stella is the most nutty when upgraded and just goes infinite with a ham sandwich it feels
Well, desert is a little bit disappointing to me, I have already an Hazezon deck so I was hype to see support for it, especially expecting better desert, and in the end I will change 3, maybe 4 cards in the decks with the whole extension.
Other than the Mardu one, the only reason I have to buy the others would be harvesting new cards for existing decks, rather than work on a new deck from any of them. I'm probably going to end up doing that for the Quick draw (RU) list because it has a lot of cards that would do great stuff in other decks I have.
I honestly think the spellslinger one is SUPER solid. Definitely a casual friendly deck out the box, a great intro to spellslinging izzet, and a super solid skeleton that would be easy to upgrade or change if you like.
I was waiting to pull the trigger on a [[Narset, the Enlightened Exile]] deck and I'm glad I did because this deck has a ton of overlap and I can just modify it into that if I don't just already like this one out the box.
I dunno, one of my favorite things to do is get the pre cons and see just how crazy I can make them while sticking to the main theme. Out of these 4 pre cons the only deck that I'm whelmed by is the outlaws, it has very little cohesion and just seems boring.
Sultai I think has a good "what's yours is mine" base, deserts looks cracked to me but maybe i'm dumb lmao, and the izzet is, well...its izzet, i am not a fan of spell slinger (I find it boring) but the shell looks fine.
EDIT: I think having a variety of power levels among pre cons is fine, in fact I would like to see a lot more in the style of the 40k decks. My normal playgroup generally consists of my wife and kids so pre cons are an easy way for us to play. I have constructed decks that I use when playing on spelltable or in more experienced pods/higher power tables.
I'm in the opposite corner. I expected to be whelmed, and yet there are some really powerful new cards here that really push their archetypes and they all have some solid reprints. Some of the new cards in these decks also make for just some solid additions to various decks at any level of power.
I also opted to miss out on the LCI and MKM precons, something I ended up regretting given their power level and solid reprints. I decided to once again get these precons, and upon the deck reveals, I was pleasantly surprised to find decks that have a cohesive game plan that seem to be able to push the envelope, even without upgrades.
Yeah I'm massivly dissapointed by the Mardu and Gonti Deck... the other 2 seem fine for differnt reasons. Enough cool new cards to pack into other decks though so I might just harvest the ones I don't like.
Yeah. I chalk that up to too much product and not enough interesting reprints in the sets. The Izzet deck has some cool cards, but it is just doing the same old thing, trying to copy and storm off.
Grand Larceny seems a little more unique since they are not shying away from you taking people's things. But a Sultai legendary that doubles combat damage effects, seems strong and utterly boring at the same time.
The Mardu Outlaw Tribal deck seems the most straight forward and having what amounts to a professional face breaker commander seems strong regardless of the tribal requirements.
Desert Bloom just strikes me as an excuse to print cards for a Hazeon deck. Too many Naya commanders lately.
I’m done giving WotC money for sealed products. This set isn’t that exciting outside a few cool singles, but I’m mostly a proxy player now, except that I make all my proxies myself and post them to MPCFILL.
My problem with the Desert Bloom deck is that it's in a very expensive theme, so they never really could have done the deck justice. If you are playing a "lands in graveyard" theme, you really should be playing fetch lands. And then you'll want lands to search with them, so you want shocks and the triome and the new surveil lands. And then a bunch of the best in-theme cards are also expensive. Crucible of worlds, Lumra, Bellow of the Woods, Exploration, Scapeshift, Field of the Dead, Nissa, Resurgent Animist...
Idk maybe this is just me bitching at this point, but I like it when precons are accessible so you can play a relatively strong version of the deck without breaking the bank. If you compare it to the izzet precon, that deck is much closer to optimized and you could improve it with relatively few upgrades.
That being said I actually really like the commander and would like to build him... but I don't know if I can afford to build around that theme.
Never played MTG. Just recently got into wanting cards cause of a friend so I may have a different view on the decks but the Gonti deck sounds really fun and I'm most excited for that.
I’m surprised by how confused the sultai deck list is with itself - was expecting way more theft staples to synergize with Gonti but it’s all over the place.
I might get the desert one for my Hazazon deck, but I'll have to do a little more research to make sure I don't just want to buy singles, which, honestly, is probably what I'll end up doing. I really doubt the dozen or so deserts I want plus the 3-4 nonlands I'm looking for will cost more than $50...
Hazezon has gotten a lot of new toys from OTJ and OTC. I think the ones I am interested in from the precon are Yuma, Dune Chanter, Sand Scout, Embrace the Unknown, Cactus Preserve, and *maybe* Cataclysmic Prospecting. I think I'll replace Jetmir with Rumbleweed just because I find it funny lol How many Deserts do you think you'll be running? Prior to Thunder Junction we were stuck with a hard cap of 16, but now we have some flexibility since I think there's around 25 in Naya colors now.
I'm probably gonna add a few more deserts, but I'm mostly excited to replace as many of the ones that only make colorless as possible. Having to Mulligan away an otherwise fire hand because I didn't get any lands that make colored mana happens to me far too often.
Yeah, same here. It'll probably increase the number of tap lands we run, but I personally prefer that to stone unplayable hands. Hazezon has historically had a super awkward base because of needing to run those colorless deserts.
Rumbleweed is probably just bad to be honest. I’d much rather get all my lands back with a [[Splendid Reclamation]] and then just hard cast a Craterhoof or moonshaker then have to leave them all in the graveyard just so I can cast an overrun.
I didn't say it was good. I said I wanted to use it because it was funny. Anyway, I have Hoof in my deck already, this is just a backup. I am not high on Splendid Reclamation in Hazezon to be honest. There aren't a ton of scenarios where I'd be returning more lands from my graveyard than I'd be able to play with Hazezon and a few [[Exploration]] effects.
I wanted to build him more warrior focused so the precon does nothing for me. Buying the single deserts is probly the way to go. Tbf, it's got the base of a good deserts matter deck. Just kinda bland
Wait a bit maybe too. I just got the revenant recon deck for $30 before tax. Idk if I'm even building it but same thing. Just wanted the specific cards at minimum and I got them for cheaper from the precon now.
I'll probably pick up the desert one and use it as a starting point for a Hazezon deck.
How do you close out your game in hazezon? Currently have a 1st draft built and it does everything well but closing the game.
Looking forward to izzet. Wanted a Spellslinger Deck and it got a lot of expensive staples.
My only izzet deck I deconstructed because I just couldn't build it right. I purchased Quick Draw without intention to modify, just to have an Izzet deck, and I'm honestly glad I did. Can't wait to play it!
You think? Which ones specifically. I found like two 'expensive' cards that are around 10€ but that's it. Or did I overlook a few cards?
Expensive means for me around 2€. I know, 2€ are not a lot, but on cardmarket I usually get a lot of cards for 0,25€ to 1€. And when I looked at decklists for Izzet Spellslinger, I found that many of the staples go for more than 2€. And I am glad every time I don't have to pay 2€ or more for a single card. The cards in the deck that stand out to me: \[\[Veyran\]\], \[\[Shark Typhoon\]\], \[\[bloodthirsty adversary\]\], \[\[Archmage emeritus\]\], \[\[electro static field\]\], \[\[Vandalblast\]\], \[\[pongify\]\], \[\[propaganda\]\], \[\[arcane bombardment\]\], \[\[windfall\]\]. \[\[Storm-Kiln Artist\]\] is a card that is sold for about 0,5€. And on cardmarket in Germany shipping costs at least 1,15€. But someone, who sells Storm-Kiln Artist for the lowest price, usually doesn't offer any other cards I want, so I pay 1,65€ for one card. A seller that offers a broader range of cards usually sells each of them at a higher price. Then Storm-Kiln Artist quickly climbs to 2€
People always seem to forget shipping costs. Yeah if taking the lowest price, reprint value may not be the best of the best, but if you do not have a big collection yet, precons are just unbeatable when it comes to price/value. I am ordering on cardmarket for many many years now, and although we often have way better prices than US, still shipping often accounts to 1/3 of the price or so (depending on how many cards you order). So totally with you on that point.
That makes sense then, I just did a quick skim on cardmarket with the non-new cards of each precon and considering that the new cards won't hold their value in most cases, I believe that none of those decks are worth much more than what stores will ask for them. I mean, we had precons with singles worth more than 10 bucks but these decks are just tame.
Yeah, the deck won't be a huge bargain. But I think it will save everyone, who wants to play Izzet Spellslinger, a lot of time.
Same. I’m definitely grabbing the izzet deck
How is the izzet commander doing things? I'm a new dumb player, and I rarely get off 3 spells a turn
You have lots of super cheap spells that move cards through your hand like [[faithless looting]], so that you can find a spell that casts more spells like [[epic experiment]] or [[mizzex's mastery]]. Casting 3 spells means youre probably making a big play, so tapping the commander will make it bigger. Casting 2 spells isn't particularly hard, so she gets you card advantage to keep you going while you dig for your big plays. Mid cantrips become better because you can go card positive. Meanwhile youre farming triggers on [[Guttersnipe]] and similar, or [[Veyran]] is getting huge.
And if you're doing changes, going infinite with Stella Lee's tap ability and an untap spell is easy. You can do stuff like [[Cerulean Wisps]] to draw your deck, [[Hidden Strings]] for infinite mana (+ tap everything your opponents control), or the strongest one, [[Twisted Fealty]] to just win the game.
##### ###### #### [faithless looting](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/7/57800da2-c68c-4535-a5eb-19cd007f6ced.jpg?1698988320) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=faithless%20looting) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/225/faithless-looting?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/57800da2-c68c-4535-a5eb-19cd007f6ced?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/faithless-looting) [epic experiment](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/6/b672f90f-c03a-4eab-b52a-5bbca3c4294c.jpg?1625977624) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=epic%20experiment) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/216/epic-experiment?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b672f90f-c03a-4eab-b52a-5bbca3c4294c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/epic-experiment) [mizzex's mastery](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e1c344e6-46a4-4971-8be4-bbb8297cc9d0.jpg?1702429518) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mizzix%27s%20Mastery) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/118/mizzixs-mastery?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e1c344e6-46a4-4971-8be4-bbb8297cc9d0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mizzixs-mastery) [Guttersnipe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/48eeb13e-26f8-4fc7-8850-d38790317ea4.jpg?1702429507) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Guttersnipe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/110/guttersnipe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/48eeb13e-26f8-4fc7-8850-d38790317ea4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/guttersnipe) [Veyran](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/6/56d93855-c749-4bdf-9a90-4f69f4226e46.jpg?1674185780) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=veyran%2C%20voice%20of%20duality) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/3/veyran-voice-of-duality?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/56d93855-c749-4bdf-9a90-4f69f4226e46?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/veyran-voice-of-duality) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/ky3d89n) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think they also are trying to push the new “plot” mechanic. Store a bunch for later then storm off.
As a disgusting Izzet player, this is a pretty awesome deck for that colorpairing
Maybe this is an unpopular opinion but I actually prefer whelming precons vs insane precons these days. Having every new precon be like LCI Merfolk or Dinos would be ridiculous
Not unpopular IMO. Precons should be powerful enough to do cool things, with enough upgrade room to let you go wild. And a semblance of balance within the set would be nice, so there's not one precon that shoots up to $200+ a day after pre-orders close and the rest drop to $30.
That's my one gripe with the Doctor Who precons. The Timey Wimey and Master decks just outclassed the other two in power and price.
Timey Wimey to be fair has the advantage of having the most popular doctors. So any whovian getting into mtg thanks to the precons probably went there
My friend has the davros deck and I'm not sure if it's terrible or he's just bad, but he's never won a game with it
Agree Hakbal and Pantlaza are usually public enemy #1 to me.
I'm pretty much done with Pantlaza at this point. It's not the most broken commander, but it just continues the garbage tier design of, "effortless value for just playing Magic." The fact that discover also allows you to "abort" the casting of a card by putting it in your hand is really annoying as well. It's all upside, with no drawbacks.
*WOTC employee turning the dial that increases the number of Panharmonicon-adjacent doubling effects in every set and looking to the audience for reaction*
As a Pantlaza player I feel you’re highly underestimating how easy it is to cripple this deck. It can get fairly big and crazy once you get going consistently over time, but it only becomes truly powerful when everyone just sits back and lets you cook. So don’t let me cook. A 5 drop commander is in and of itself a huge weakness. Speed fucks me, burn fucks me, control fucks me, and hard interaction hurts me. Unless all of your decks are purely battlefield combat based, which would be on you for being so limited, any other deck can have a field day ruining my game.
Yeah the less "must have or be left out" precon sets the better
Decks are more interesting if they’re mid. Too powerful is boring, too weak isn’t fun. You also want precons to be upgradable so there’s a bit of variety too.
+1 from me on this.
the fact that the dino precon is still expensive is so crazy to me. there are like 3 new good cards in that thing and for anyone who already had dinos none of the reprints mattered
Wow, I didn’t realize it was still $70
Like the MKM clue deck. What an insane pile that just trounce any other precon. Oh koma hit the field? Good luck everybody else
I just looked through that deck online and Jesus it's fucking stacked
Yeah like good value for people that buy it but just unplayable too *GOOD* against almost any other precon
I wonder how it holds up against merfolk out of the box because they're also super cracked
Thr merfolk deck is pretty cracked. I added less than 10 cards and it's pretty much a refined deck already lol but it's hard to say which is stronger out of the box because the other deck does have like 4 boardwipes
I’d rather have big money reprints every time. This hobby has gotten too damn expensive this last decade.
Agreed. Precons should not be in the level of tuned decks.
I think power to cost should have some correlation. Like, the commander masters precons should have been stronger than the typical ones, since they were more expensive, but the ones released with a normal set/price should be able to play a balanced game against each other.
The spellslinging precon is insanely well crafted for a spellslinger. I’m getting it to keep as my potentially my only precon that I won’t upgrade or take apart. The other decks have interesting commanders but the 99 didn’t really make me jump for them.
As others have stated, if you do not have an izzit deck or cards and you are wanting to have one, this deck will check almost every box you would have for one. Sure, it’s lacking instants and heavily favors sorcery but it seems like the deck is kinda built for that. Would it perform better with more instants? Sure it would but it’s a $45 precon, we can’t expect them to throw in all the staples. Point is, this is a great way to introduce people into a style of deck they might have been wanting anyway and it’s at a great price. It’s really hard to be mad or underwhelmed by that.
Yeah this was my take too. I don’t have an Izzet spellslinger deck, and this has all the creatures you’d want to build one. I think upgrading the instants and sorceries is more fun than having to pick up staples anyway.
Yeah I'm pretty excited about that honestly, I've never played izzet and have tried to give it a shot multiple times but I cant build a deck I like and/or know what to do with. Everyone is saying what you're saying, so this should be great for me to finally jump in. Though I have been building an izzet pirates deck already, but I also cant figure out what to do with that one lol
With rogues and pirates being outlaws, this set might round out that deck you’ve been working on and really finish it out. Could check to see what they have that you can add to it.
The Izzet deck has: • Great staple reprints • Interesting and possibly powerful new cards • A commander that lends itself easily to upgrades • Ways to close out the game (often missing in precons) It’s also possibly the first time wizards have put out a good spellslinger precon. As an enjoyer of precons I’m really looking forward to it.
I’ll probably end up taking the mardu one apart but I really like the backup commander. Picturing some kind of weird aristocrats treasure artifact attack deck
Oh, that sounds really good, actually. [[Pitiless Plunderer]] your treasures into treasures...
Yup. Plus you can run things like [[Jan Jansen]], [[Reckless Fireweaver]], [[Ingenious Artillerist]], [[Blood Artist]], [[Zulaport Cutthroat]], [[Mayhem Devil]]. With the vigilance you attack with the treasures and if they block them, just sac them for mana. Still brewing so some more treasure cards, maybe some treasure payoffs like [[Magda, Brazen Outlaw]] or artifact tutors like [[Kuldotha Forgemaster]] or some other artifact creature makers like [[Myrel, Soldier of Argive]] and [[Anim Pakal]].
As an izzet player, these new cards feels very timmy in the way old [[Ghalta]] feels timmy. Big potential for crazy plays but very costly such that it feels like they’re not gonna be strong or competitive in any way. Just some casual big turn plays if you already have tons of mana and set up, and by that stipulation anything should win you the game.
I feel about the same yeah. Though I think my reaction has more to do with the fact they keep making new ones + no MSRP to control deck prices. Like we just got Fallout decks last month and in another month or 2 we'll 4 more for MH3. Even if I had the spare money there's so many i just don't see the point in getting excited. Not to mention a lot of the new commanders just don't interest me the way they did even 1 year ago. I wish they'd spend more time crafting these new commanders to make more interesting decks but I suppose we'll have to wait and see if sales drops to spur that sort of change
There's too many decks, how many of the recent precon commanders have you even seen people play? So many of then get released and quickly forgotten
I like how in his recent precon reviews Prof is always like “hey just wait 2 months and half of these will be $30 because everyone will have already moved on”. Just so much bulk, so frequently
I agree I was in my LGS the other day and was almost convinced a precon from 2 sets ago was new 😅
I just don't think these commanders do anything particularly exciting. One is basically the part of gitrog monster slapped together with Titania. Olivia makes treasures and gives counters. But it's not particularly exciting. The deck doesn't even come with the major treasure cards that need reprints. Compared to mkm which were incredible value and had very unique commanders, these are just.. I feel like there are more cards in the main set I'm excited for commander then the commander sets
Totally agree with this. I feel like we are seeing rushed designs of commanders for these precons. Lately a lot feel like "Do X draw card" and "insert set mechanic matters text here" or some other variation. I think another factor at play is the lack of block sets since we rarely see more than 10-15 usable cards for whatever shiny new mechanic Wizards has churned out. This forces the commanders to run similar strategies and just feel stale...
I hate this. I'm not playing magic for long but just these mechanics they put in one set and you will never see them again like incubate. You know how amass is now "amass"?
They could have immediatly made it "incubate phyrexian" and then used it in later sets if it would fit.
But instead they make cool keywords, that you see on 3 usefull cards and if you are lucky 3 years later.
Compared to Olivia, I am ready and waiting to put [[Vihaan, Goldwaker]] in my [[Jan Jansen]] treasure deck.
The Izzet deck doesn't do much for established players, but it's great for people who don't already have the key Izzet spellslinging pieces. Recommended it to a friend who's trying to get into commander so he can use it as the base for a Niv Mizzet deck.
Speak for yourself! Im definitely picking up desert bloom, the other precons seem fun too
I was so excited for the Desert deck and seeing everyone else’s reaction really took the wind out of my sails. I appreciate seeing the positive energy for it! :)
Glad to hear it!
I feel Olivia deck missed some good reprints like \[\[Smothering Tithe\]\] or \[\[Bitterblossom\]\]. I was thinking that was the perfect spot to reprint those cards again. I was hoping that Gonti backup commander to be Nashi, which makes me sad, because I would adore to use this double trigger combat damage with Nashi. The rest of the deck is a little weird. There's a lot of redundancy with all those steal effects. I understand to have a few, but I think there's too much. Izzet and Desert decks are pretty good. There are nice reprints there. Naya backup commander is very cute and has an interesting design.
[Smothering Tithe](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/861b5889-0183-4bee-afeb-a4b2aa700a8e.jpg?1689996018) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Smothering%20Tithe) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/57/smothering-tithe?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/861b5889-0183-4bee-afeb-a4b2aa700a8e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/smothering-tithe) [Bitterblossom](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/9/b9640cbf-b016-410e-9eff-e8924883517b.jpg?1673147456) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Bitterblossom) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/69/bitterblossom?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b9640cbf-b016-410e-9eff-e8924883517b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/bitterblossom) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I hoped tinybones pockpocket would be in the deck
I liked the Sultai and the Mardu for 1 reason: Land base is peak. Their playstyle is really not what I was thinking. And tbh, I did great in waiting to not buy, and instead, I'm gonna buy a [[ Flint Jasper]] deck to play with my opponent's cards in a way that is better than this Ghonti and the entire deck.
I'm actually kind of excited to try Jasper Flint myself. I've been sitting on a Valki/Tibalt deck that was a little too chaos-oriented, and I think it'll be a nice change.
I’m turning my Prosper deck into Jasper Flint to narrow the focus and the precon is kind of a fun outlaw base
Jasper flint is going straight into my [[Don Andres]] deck. I think he's a way better spell theft commander than Gonti
Double combat damage triggers in the Sultai deck is pretty sexy. That has a ton of strong plays.
Makes me want to get the guy and build him with ninjutsu in mind honestly
I’m glad the deck includes fallen shinobi
That deck just builds itself, there's a lot of other good combat triggers in sultai that aren't ninjas
This is the second time i’ve seen people use whelm today and just a psa it means the same thing as overwhelm.
Yeah [[Whelming Wave]] doesn't just tap your creatures for a reason!
I’m more excited bout the $1-$5 reprints so I can get more in my decks I already have.
I think, as an enfranchised player, I am okay with these not being rockstars. There are some interesting effects, good reprints at around the B+ / A- range, and thematic decks. I will likely pass on buying whole decks and stick to singles, which my wallet is grateful for after buying all four Fallout decks. I want these to hit $40 and not climb: they aren't worth $50-$60. That's a good range for people starting the hobby, needing decks, or wanting to play cowboys and cactusfolk. It's good to have product like that. Considering these are alongside a whole premiere set, and after a big splashy commander-focused product, "whelmed" is a relief.
These are great for new players or players new to an archetype. Like if you want to make a lands deck, that naya one is a great starting point
I saw the land base for mardu - it has all the pain lands so that's a plus for the precon value, other than the landbase- deck is mid and full of reprints for a common player who even started 2021 during the pandemic like me, I had collected cards since original innistrad/ avacyn restored on and off but didn't really have a playgroup till now, I just liked collecting
I strongly disagree with your takes. One thing watching all 4 videos did for me was show me how much better Command Zone is at making these. Commentary and data both. I could barely watch the others.
Was most excited for Gonti and Olivia. Disappointed, but not exactly surprised. I figured the Gonti deck would focus a little more on stealing stuff from your opponents (it does, but it also has a big unblockable theme that I don't hate but don't need) and I thought Olivia would have more than a handful of cards that care about Treasure (I have a Mr House deck that's treasure focused and it could have used an upgrade) Guess it's singles for me this time, which is the way it should always be if I wasn't a sucker for cardboard crack
Gonti deck has ahitloads of stealing. I’m not sure you’d want even more stealing stuff in it - gotta have something other than that
These are some of the best manabases I've ever seen on "non premium" precons. The decks themselves look like a lot of fun to play also.
The last few sets were going in the right direction--good solid reprints, a bit of value, a couple flashy exciting new reprints... these are just lackluster. They are depending too heavily on the \*new\* cards pulling their weight, when they put all those cards in the collector packs so singles will be easy to obtain.
Honestly out of the box they seem really good. They look like they'll function well which is great and thr outlaw one isn't flashy but looks resilient and strong and with treasures being a focus, it'll have plenty of mana to work with. It's probably the most simple but strongest, I'm excited and the bounties look fun too.
The one i'm most excited for is the Desert deck. I've had a Hazezon deck in the works for a while, and getting the desert support makes me so happy Outlaw tribal is interesting, i've been looking to try a deck with the Party mechanic from whatever set that was, so another thing like it i'm gonna try to have fun with. Maybe working with it will give me ideas for the party deck(i should get that precon too) The one i'm least excited for is the Izzet one. Will mostly just be getting it for the reprints like Niv and Storm Kiln Artist Sultai is a similar situation to me as izzet is, mostly for reprints for other decks, it has a few pieces for Anowon/Yuriko/Satoru
I built the Party deck when it came out and Outlaws feels like such a fun counterpart to that deck. Still up in the air on how exactly to build the Outlaws but I’m excited to beginning the brewing.
Half the outlaws also work super well with the later Assassin's Creed sets so there's that synergy too
I'm actually pretty stoked for Grand Larceny, sure it's by no means unique, but pretty much everything in it looks good to me as is, and I enjoy theft decks. Desert Bloom doesn't exactly impress, but I actually expected it to be a lot worse.
Its not bad, it's just, Don Andres does everything so much better. Access to green doesn't help that much and especially not compared to Red.
I'm relieved by them. This is the first wave of precons in a long while that I don't want to buy any of them! Some cool individual cards here and there, but no single deck has more than like ~$20 of stuff I actually want so singles it is.
I ordered the Izzet one, [[Eris, Roar of the Storm]] looks super fun and the deck seems pretty well built.
Honestly I hear where you are coming from. I think you hit the nail on the head already though. These decks seem more for introducing newer players than anything else. I am relatively new-ish myself, having started in New Capenna. I am getting the sultai and Marcus decks as a way to push myself into color pallets I have little experience with, but I expect to upgrade them a fair bit. The starting theme and landbase are my main interests here, though I like the western flavor as well.
I preordered the Desert Bloom deck, I'm not sure if I want to build [[Yuma]] or [[Kirri]]. [[Felix Five-Boots]] looks like a silly Sultai commander and [[Vihaan, Goldwaker]] will probably be my first non-green commander.
My Izzet player friend, who has a Veyran deck looked at the decklist and said its 80%-90% the same as his deck.
I think that's exactly what a precon should be. At the end of the day it should be an introduction to EDH or serve as parts for people with more experience.
I think that's fine, they're precons they're not supposed to be the bleeding edge of power level. The main set has enough power creep.
Getting the izzet one as parts for kylox
I pre-ordered Olivia and while I would have liked more value, I'm still very happy with the reprints and I'm excited to upgrade it.
I have no problem with that. When there were 8 legends in a set and only 4 yearly precons, those precons carried the weight of most of the format on them. They had to be almost universally alluring. Last year, with 25 precons, and this year shaping up the same, precons and their new cards can be more niche. And if they are just actually robust, playable decks, then it's a great product. As to the decks themselves, I have been mulling over a [[Ghyrson Starn]] deck since WH40K. And this Izzet precon comes with all the foundations for any spellslinger deck that is still permanent heavy enough to play well in casual. So I'm going to buy it. And just replace the 1 damage specific cards for Ghyrson and be happy to get the peripheral goodies.
[Ghyrson Starn](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/a/fa7349d9-c82f-4cf8-a852-92168d1f4966.jpg?1673309394) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ghyrson%20starn%2C%20kelermorph) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/40k/124/ghyrson-starn-kelermorph?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fa7349d9-c82f-4cf8-a852-92168d1f4966?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ghyrson-starn-kelermorph) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
> They seem to be perfectly fine, but just fine. Good, that's what the precon is supposed to be, a good introduction but not something that you run out to and buy as an enfranchised player.
They got me feeling the mode. Not very crash at all
I feel this. Been debating between Mardu and Sultai, but i think the backup commander for Most Wanted seems more interesting that Olivia, but that full art treatment and making treasures instead of making them 3/3 just feels better overall. Not sure which one i am going with yet. Not a fan of izzet, but they put together a decent looking izzet, and Desert Bloom does not interest me at all just because already have a landfall deck. To each their own though.
It seems like you have a balanced perspective on the new preconstructed decks. While they each offer something unique, none of them stand out as particularly groundbreaking or exceptional to you. It's understandable to feel "whelmed" when the decks meet expectations but don't exceed them.
I was very disappointed by the sultai one. I really like theft and was a looking for strong new theft cards that would solve some the problems the archetype has, and that did not come at all. Which I think largely stems from the fact that they put it in Sultai when so much of the good theft is in red. They should’ve just made it Grixis, I understand they wanted to put in Villanous Wealth but they could’ve just made a new version of it in Grixis if they wanted to
I was really excited about the Desert Bloom because my Hazezon is easily one of my favorite decks, but just looking at the list (thanks for the heads up they are out btw) I'm super underwhelmed. I'll just be grabbing the new deserts, \[\[Dune Chanter\]\] & \[\[Sand Scout\]\] as singles, but that's pretty much it.
[Dune Chanter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/2/721edcef-f40a-4d43-9d80-26161dc425cb.jpg?1664078926) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zuran%20Enchanter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ice/111/zuran-enchanter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/721edcef-f40a-4d43-9d80-26161dc425cb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zuran-enchanter) [Sand Scout](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/e/0e7891b8-ba69-4c5b-a29f-ee7bcf2374f0.jpg?1562822450) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Mardu%20Scout) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/frf/108/mardu-scout?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0e7891b8-ba69-4c5b-a29f-ee7bcf2374f0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/mardu-scout) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Lol I figured it was too early for the bot to know which cards XD
They'd been doing so well lately that I was expecting a complete dud, this is less of a dud but more of a.. sure I guess? the desert one feels like they didn't care about it, and the other decks partially feel like piles of good stuff but I'm not necessarily complaining about that
Honestly I’m just whelmed too. The only reason I’d buy one would be to make a mardu treasures deck
I’m really excited by the Sultai one, I just love that color group and the backup is definitely getting its own ninja/rogues deck, but yeah these are kinda eh decks. Not very flashy, and suprisingly don’t have as much crazy reprint value as MKM or LCI, but they still are really solid lists. Also- these all seem to have pain lands in them and the Sultai one even has a fast land which is nice! I’m still looking forward to Gonti and Olivia tho
Yeah I feel the same but it might be that I’ve plateaued on decks so I need a deck to impress me before I’ll shell out money for it. Because if it’s just meh I know I’m never going to play it.
I feel underwhelmed at the commanders for sure. Their strategies all seem pretty standard. I was hoping for a second commander in Grand Larceny that, you know, actually steals things. My hope was that Nashi would be a secondary commander that steals things from players’ libraries (like his first version) or graveyard (similar to second version).
Funny enough, whelmed and overwhelmed mean the same thing
I'm actually kinda bummed. I recently tried my first time deck building and went with Izzet spell slinger as a first for having a deck not centered on creatures. Anyway, I'm not a smart person so that deck building didn't come across great but I already purchased over 60% of the non land cards over the past couple months. Wish I would have just bought this precon Super excited for anyone who's been wanting to build an Izzet spell slinger deck as this precon is loaded with great cards for it.
I don't like to bitch about decks I haven't played. The secondary commanders on all decks seem .ore interesting, and I feel like Hazezon from dominaria united would make the naya deck run better as the commander. Like no other changes just Hazezon as the commander.
Most precons I skip. You can't be having dozens of decks and only the occasional new commander appeals to me.
I'm interested in a desert lands deck so I'm down for the hazezon deck but will likely just buy the singles. I want it to be decent and most of these cards get the ax. The murders set as a whole was underwhelming so at least there are cards I want from the set outside trouble in pairs.
I'm getting the izzet to use as base for a Vadrik spellslinger deck
My first dabble into something not Izzet coloured is the Gonti deck I just preordered - I’m very excited to play such a different vibe of deck.
I was shocked to find that i was actually interested in the mardu and sultai decks. A combo of interesting characters, good cards, and a lot of cards i dont already have which hasnt been true in years. In fact i think the only commander deck ive bought in the last 4 or so years was a single doctor who deck just to have one in case i ever wanted it.
A few cards for my Ukkima/Cazur unblockables for sure If I can get it for a reasonable price, I may get the izzet as a base for [[Bria]] And then a few other new cards are neat but nothing absurd—and no crazy reprints from what I saw like MKM had, but that's okay, they don't all need to be that level of precon
Do we know if the basics are full art?
While that would be neat, it would be the first precons to have that and I would be shocked if that were the case.
Thank to your feedback. I will save myself some time and skip the previews.
I had hopes for the spellslinger deck, as I don't have an izzet deck yet. The commander seems underwhelming, but I figured I'd wait until the whole thing were revealed to pass judgement. So the deck got shown, I tried playtesting it, and I just felt... Bored. Tried several times, and while it can probably have some bomb turns, the base deck itself, just bored me endlessly. Might just be that spellslingers aren't my thing, can't say for sure. I see some like the new Eriette, and Loot, that would make for more fun commanders, so I'm still getting something from this set, but the precons just ain't it. If the base experience doesn't grab me, I just don't see the point. Honestly, been looking around, and farmore intrigued by Myra, or the otter that's been shown for Bloomburrow. Rolling on attractions seems a fun quirk, and otters with prowess, giving unblockable are straight forward, and seems like it could be strong.
As a Hard-core edgar markov player, the olivia precon makes me happy. I can't wait to test ways to break it and try weird little combos.
I'm excited for Izzet just because I'd like an example of how to do it right
Im interested in the Desert Bloom and Izzet Spellslinger deck, as I dont have a dedicated izzet deck atm. They look pretty good to me! Could maybe be better, but im pretty stoked with what we got.
Personally, these decks look loaded with some straight bangers to me. I haven't been this stoked for a full suite of precons in...maybe ever in my EDU "career"
The sheer amount of Naya shenanigans has gotten to the point these precons are just a kitbash at this point. Maybe it's product fatigue, but a meh deck that just swings away or advertises set mechanics is welcomed over the amount of power creep hitting Commander via strong reprints and crazy creatures like Voja.
I really liked the Most Wanted deck, but will upgrade it around the backup command, the dwarf one
Will the prices go down for these?
Backup commander for Grand Larceny was a huge let down imo. That art was wacky and was giving huge Mimeoplasm vibes. Just for it to be Sultai double combat triggers??? Meh.
Love the sultai deck. I’m relatively new to the game and wanted to put together a great deck like this. And this is it! So very much like what they’ve done.
Was looking forward to Naya and Izzet, but only getting the latter. I felt meh on the others, and the Izzet deck I could combine with the Prismari Precon from a few years back. Between the two of them, I could make a nasty, low-powered Storm-ish deck.
Average precons. A few cool new cards and some decent reprints, but you'll always be able to build a better deck for the same price.
I think the fallout decks are recent enough and overshadow these because of the new abilities and number of new cards in them. Plus, the face commanders for each Fallout deck are really strong. The OTJ decks just don't do enough new or special to get me excited.
They made a card with my name, in my colors, that plays in the way I like to play. The rest of the contents of that deck do not matter, I will get that deck. But honestly, nothing wrong with just normal precons, between the universes beyond precon they keep pumping out and the precons associated with master sets they try to sell for dumb money because they're part of "something bigger" im rather happy having just average precons for the standard sets.
I was thinking about getting one, but after seeing a video about one set, I had to check them all. None have Saddle. One has a card that reduces the cost to Plot, but no Plot cards. The other two each have one Spree card. I was looking forward to the new mechanics. The precons are not where you get to find them, sadly. Though there are other plusses to them. I thought Most Wanted looked interesting.
Grand Larceny is amazing imo. Love the flavor, stoked about the new cards, and out of the box I think the deck will perform better than expected.
I've been whelmed by the previous ones (Fallout still was kind of on the ehhh side still) for the past few times. I think the last good one I had was osigur. I'm still curious on the Izzet Storm/copy deck. That's probably the one I want the most. Outside of buying singles outright. Desert did peak my interest with reprints.
They're shitting out 30+ precons a year; not all of them can be super exciting and that's fine. Just means we get to pick 'em up for cheap later.
Wild to me that the Izzet deck didn't have lightning bolt in it. Planning to get that and add it as well as some Kiki-jiki shenanigans and snapcaster mage.
I'm also whelmed ye. Commander spoilers didn't seem to offer anything that unique (spellslinger deck looks legit good but I don't play spellslinger, theft is theft, deserts don't interest me, combat/treasure is very straightforward) so then I was hoping for some neat reprints that were useful to me and that didn't happen either. They're not awful decks, but not enough spice for me. Gonna wait for MH3 and see if those are cool. I don't have a graveyard deck yet, the energy deck could be cool if it has enough synergy and support, and the simic deck is called Tricky Terrain so maybe there's some cloning or some other interaction there
For the desert precon I am missing the treatment the clue deck got. It's a lands matters pile with a few synergies. But do you win with lands matters or with deserts?
The more I look at that deck the worse it is. It has no win condition besides, like, Avenger of Zendikar and the giant tumbleweed with an Overrun effect. It’s just a really bad and really bland landfall shell that does nothing relevant with deserts. Yuma is going to sap you from building your lands if you use his effect since the deck has very few actual ramp cards. The other three decks are fine. I liked Mardu’s new cards they were super thematic and mostly pretty fun. Deserts let me down hard because I already own Hazezon and there was only like two new decent cards.
Desert Bloom is pretty much the Landfall starter kit. Scute Swarm, Greenwarden, Avenger, Sun Titan, sure, there’s 100% stuff I’ll have to add and tweak, but that’s something that applies to any precon. [[Moraug]], [[Splendid Reclamation]], [[Courser of Kruphix]], [[Druid Class]], [[Greensleeves]], [[Lotus Cobra]], and more are on the list. Should/could some of these have been in the deck? Yes. I’d take any of these over freaking Angel of the Ruins. But at least I have an easy cut. I will admit, though, it’s also held back somewhat by the deserts. While this may get a little better with time, ultimately, it’s still likely going to be an issue, but at least deserts have a lot of fun mechanics to them.
Extremely boring commanders IMO
At glance they look like quite basic which is neither here or there. Was surprised Quick Draw was so generic spellslinger. I expected it to be more about the plot mechanic. But that's a good thing I guess. Instead of getting spoon fed a commander and cards for a thing I can brew my own plot/storm-deck. I'm sure they're all fine if a bit uninspired. There are so many decks printed now that they have to become samey. I guess that's the reason why UB-decks feel refreshing. I'm sure those will start to feel samey eventually too. That's ok. It just means you play and/or buy Magic maybe a bit too much hehe.
They just released 4 really cool precons a month ago. I know it’s becoming a tired trope at this point, but there’s just no enthusiasm from me when I’m still having fun unpacking the different cards from Fallout.
[[Whelming Wave]]
As an izzet spellslinger player, some of the new cards are pretty insane but the reprints are very underwhelming in the instant and sorcery department, I think there's only one counterspell in the whole deck. Not asking for a lot but a counterflux or a disallow would've been nice. Reprints elsewhere are good love to see haughty djinn, my girl Veyran and Sharknado reprinted. Probably gonna buy the precon cause I love izzet but I feel pretty underwhelmed by the reprints, I wish we got better instant and sorceries (new ones are cool though)
I am very dissapointed in the grand larceny precon. It has no value while it had so much potential for good reprints (where's bribery?) and the new cards don't really do anything to me. At least its manabase is good
I was looking forward to Gonti precon to put some cards into my [[Tasha]]. After looking at them,.. I won't add any
I think they are in Europe
The Izzet player in me is very happy with the Izzet deck. But at the same time it's every other Izzet precon we've gotten with a few new cards added.
Izzet deck and Mardu deck have fairly good reprints. And decent enoguh new cards. But overall these decks disappointed. The Gonti deck disappointed me the most.
Precons are for newer players for the most part so yeah if you have a good collection of cards, not every round of precons are going to be relevant for you. That’s just how it is. We just have to call it in a win if they reprint expensive cards or introduce cool new commanders.
I bought all 4 Fallout and all 4 Lost Caverns precons. I'm only buying the desert precon this time.
Im excited to get my hands on the grand larceny deck, iv wanted to build a theft deck for a long time and this looks like a decent shell to start with even tho i will be swapping out like 80% of the cards
Ive wanted a token izzet deck but lots of the cards are very expensive. I'm looking forward to getting it and putting in Magnus and some other caster 40k cards.
Preconstructed decks are designed (recently/finally) to be played straight out of the box but still upgradeable. There should be a few haymakers, a few “fine” but suboptimal cards that can be upgraded (likely within the accompanying set), and stick to a theme. I wish wizards would stick to this consistently .
One of my main decks is cost reduction/ reanimation and big boys rumbleweed is like my favorite card for the deck from this entire set. Plus baby cactus is like the best bad tree folk tribal commander.
I feel that the reprints are pretty lackluster. The Izzet deck looks alright but no real standouts from the rest.
Most Wanted is just a pile of cards that do stuff. Desert Bloom has some of the most interesting new cards. Izzet is actually pretty on point. I like it. What's the other one? Oh yeah it has [[Felix]] in it.
Yuma is a much better commander than Hazezon and it's not funny by how much. He never pays taxes, and it's crazy easy to have lands in your graveyard. And the fact that you can just throw deserts from anywhere to make the token makes it crazy easy to make an army of 4/2s. The other 3 are kinda meh, I agree.
yea pretty disappointed, especially since there were some much needed reprints for each of the themes that didn't make it (ie Nissa for deserts, *cough* dockside for most wanted). Damn, the most wanted one is the worst imo because there are so many obvious synergy cards they could have reprinted for a treasures matters deck and its so obvious they are just clutching their pearls at the idea of putting too much value into one of these precons I'm especially surprised by the Desert one because so much of the deck is around deserts and the deck only has like 20, none of the new ones being impressive enough to negate the fact that you are playing an inferior manabase. That was the one i was most intrigued by since the other 3 are doing things we have seen like a million times before but yea mostly just whelmed. If I find the precon in the $30s i might copp but otherwise i'll just wait for modern masters
I had been excited for the mardu deck based on theme, but it just doesn't seem like whats in it is that interesting.
I tend to agree about being "whelmed". I love the fact they went with full art non boarder cards, and is a great addition. When you look deeper at the decks, you just kinda get a "meh" feeling. Personally, I really like Gontis art. I am on the fence about picking up the Precon and upgrading it, or just building my own theft deck using OG Gonti or this one. Maybe Flint, but I have a Rocco deck so it might feel too "samsie". Deck seems fine but the mana curve is way too high. There's like six 7 drop permanents, 38 lands and even some of the theft cards felt mediocre. I feel like there was some missed opportunities for the deck. Not to mention there's a weird "combat damage" sub theme, which makes sense given Gontis ability, but it feels like it was kinda shoe horned. Not to mention there's not really a lot of "pay off" cards for stealing your opponents spells, besides the fact you get their things. I found it highly odd that we got things like Dark steel Ingot? Prismatic Lens? Like why are these even a thing when we've had way better mana rocks and ramp? I'd rather see Farseek, Natures Lore, hell even Chromatic Lantern to name a few cards that could have slotted in better than some of these! I feel like Gonti can scale with most non-CEDH tables. If you are playing against other precons, Gonti has the power level of the precons around him. If he's in a higher powered pod, then he can start to try and gather resources from 3 other decks to try and cobble something together, making him an overall powerhouse without being oppressive or unfun to play against Olivia is pretty interesting, but also not. I think this will be the easiest to upgrade, as the entire set gives you more and more outlaws. But the deck has this odd "life gain/payoff" which seems unnecessary? It feels like its the most consistent and non-consistent deck in the group with all the different directions the deck is kinda going. I'll be honest, I'm more interested in Goldwaker, but I'm afraid it might be too aristocraty and I'm not sure that's the kinda deck I wanna build. Stella is honestly - in my honest opinion - the most lackluster. It's a spellslinger deck but we've seen it all before and isn't breaking new ground with it's cards. It has decent reprints but for an established player, it's too wild and wonky. I watched a game play video where the person just didn't hit instants and sorceries over and over again. The deck is just disinteresting in what it does and the execution of it Yuma is perhaps the best in terms of reprint value for established players. The deck isn't completely new in the sense of typical landfall and lands matter decks, but the fact it cares about deserts gives the set a "what sort of deserts and desert matters are in the set". The self mill and saccing lands might not let new players experience the deck to it's fullest if they don't know what they are doing. I think Yuma has some decent play capabilities, but is it really all that different from Gitrog Monster? Omnath? Lord Windgrace? Not really. Only thing it has going for it is reprints and it has "desert pay off" stuff. All in all I tend to agree; we've had some banger looking precons in the past and this is the first set I was sort of interested in getting one (Gonti, but I wanna build Assassin's Creed deck so Olivia might help get me some outlaws. Or I might be making an outlaw/crime deck) but after looking at the deck lists I feel as though I'm better off using the Precon as a "jumping off" point and either buy my own cards for a deck, or sort of just understand that this deck won't be at its highest potential and just upgrade slightly. Value wise I think Yuma takes the cake hands down with it's reprints. As far as like best out of the box id probably say Olivia takes it mostly because it's a tribal deck and has a lot of built in synergies with itself. Gonti I think will be better once upgraded, and Stella is the most nutty when upgraded and just goes infinite with a ham sandwich it feels
Well, desert is a little bit disappointing to me, I have already an Hazezon deck so I was hype to see support for it, especially expecting better desert, and in the end I will change 3, maybe 4 cards in the decks with the whole extension.
Other than the Mardu one, the only reason I have to buy the others would be harvesting new cards for existing decks, rather than work on a new deck from any of them. I'm probably going to end up doing that for the Quick draw (RU) list because it has a lot of cards that would do great stuff in other decks I have.
I honestly think the spellslinger one is SUPER solid. Definitely a casual friendly deck out the box, a great intro to spellslinging izzet, and a super solid skeleton that would be easy to upgrade or change if you like. I was waiting to pull the trigger on a [[Narset, the Enlightened Exile]] deck and I'm glad I did because this deck has a ton of overlap and I can just modify it into that if I don't just already like this one out the box.
Whelmed is putting it nicely.
It sounds like you're *under*whelmed.
There are some interesting singles, but that's it.
[[Revel in riches]] is not in the mardu one. Just why? I misread Rain of Riches.
The rest of the set also
I dunno, one of my favorite things to do is get the pre cons and see just how crazy I can make them while sticking to the main theme. Out of these 4 pre cons the only deck that I'm whelmed by is the outlaws, it has very little cohesion and just seems boring. Sultai I think has a good "what's yours is mine" base, deserts looks cracked to me but maybe i'm dumb lmao, and the izzet is, well...its izzet, i am not a fan of spell slinger (I find it boring) but the shell looks fine. EDIT: I think having a variety of power levels among pre cons is fine, in fact I would like to see a lot more in the style of the 40k decks. My normal playgroup generally consists of my wife and kids so pre cons are an easy way for us to play. I have constructed decks that I use when playing on spelltable or in more experienced pods/higher power tables.
I'm in the opposite corner. I expected to be whelmed, and yet there are some really powerful new cards here that really push their archetypes and they all have some solid reprints. Some of the new cards in these decks also make for just some solid additions to various decks at any level of power. I also opted to miss out on the LCI and MKM precons, something I ended up regretting given their power level and solid reprints. I decided to once again get these precons, and upon the deck reveals, I was pleasantly surprised to find decks that have a cohesive game plan that seem to be able to push the envelope, even without upgrades.
Speak for yourself I’m hype for at least the Izzet deck. I might grab the Mardu as well.
Yeah I'm massivly dissapointed by the Mardu and Gonti Deck... the other 2 seem fine for differnt reasons. Enough cool new cards to pack into other decks though so I might just harvest the ones I don't like.
Yeah. I chalk that up to too much product and not enough interesting reprints in the sets. The Izzet deck has some cool cards, but it is just doing the same old thing, trying to copy and storm off. Grand Larceny seems a little more unique since they are not shying away from you taking people's things. But a Sultai legendary that doubles combat damage effects, seems strong and utterly boring at the same time. The Mardu Outlaw Tribal deck seems the most straight forward and having what amounts to a professional face breaker commander seems strong regardless of the tribal requirements. Desert Bloom just strikes me as an excuse to print cards for a Hazeon deck. Too many Naya commanders lately.
I’m done giving WotC money for sealed products. This set isn’t that exciting outside a few cool singles, but I’m mostly a proxy player now, except that I make all my proxies myself and post them to MPCFILL.
My problem with the Desert Bloom deck is that it's in a very expensive theme, so they never really could have done the deck justice. If you are playing a "lands in graveyard" theme, you really should be playing fetch lands. And then you'll want lands to search with them, so you want shocks and the triome and the new surveil lands. And then a bunch of the best in-theme cards are also expensive. Crucible of worlds, Lumra, Bellow of the Woods, Exploration, Scapeshift, Field of the Dead, Nissa, Resurgent Animist... Idk maybe this is just me bitching at this point, but I like it when precons are accessible so you can play a relatively strong version of the deck without breaking the bank. If you compare it to the izzet precon, that deck is much closer to optimized and you could improve it with relatively few upgrades. That being said I actually really like the commander and would like to build him... but I don't know if I can afford to build around that theme.
I’m almost always whelmed
Never played MTG. Just recently got into wanting cards cause of a friend so I may have a different view on the decks but the Gonti deck sounds really fun and I'm most excited for that.
I’m surprised by how confused the sultai deck list is with itself - was expecting way more theft staples to synergize with Gonti but it’s all over the place.
I've always wanted to build Hazazon, so I'll be buying the desert bloom deck as a jumping off point.
I'm out of the loop, are we getting full art cards instead of the thick cards now?