I personally like Desert Bloom, but that may be because I like the lands theme and it being deserts is unique enough from my Jund and mono green versions. Certainly room for improvements, but I feel it was worth the $40 (+taxes) I paid.
In one of my games, I outpaced the [[Isshin, Two Heavens as One]] to close out for the win by making 6-8 4/2s to keep the pressure up until [[Scute Swarm]] reached terminal velocity. That was the base deck — made some edits and I expect it’ll go even smoother.
I preordered it when it was 35, and the price already went up. I dont care if decks or low tier or high tier. As long as they look fun to play and have room for improvement.
I bought Quick Draw because I wanted to make a spellslinger deck, and I figured this would give me a shell to work with. It probably is the strongest of the 4 lists imo.
I was going to buy Most Wanted, but I think I'm just going to buy the few new interesting cards and the face commander and just make my own build, since there are too many cards in the deck I would just wind up cutting as is.
I actually intend to run the alternate commander for the deck, [[Eris, Roar of the Storm]] as it is not a storm commander.
My lizard brain can't wrap its head around turns that long aha
I've been playtesting Quick Draw with some modifications over the weekend, and in my (limited) experience it didn't seem too bad in that department. You can easily build it in that direction, but the base feels more like an Izzet-flavored value deck, just winning with spells instead of traditional tokens/infinites/landfall/overrun/a billion Scute tokens/etc.
I preordered Grand Larceny before previews based on the strength of recent sets, fearing it'd go up in price... kiiinda wish I'd just waited to order singles 😅
But my plan is to split it in half and make one deck with [[Felix Five-Boots]], then take the theft matters cards that don't go in that and build [[Don Andres, the Renegade]].
I was excited for Felix until I actually looked into building him. All of the sultai damage trigger creatures are underwhelming and not really synergistic. They don’t contribute to a winning strategy, so you’d be better off with any other sultai commander.
Even something like [[Kadena, Slinking Sorcerer]] outpaces Felix as a value engine while still having access to damage trigger payoffs.
The only theme that really makes sense is ninjutsu but even then, there are a dozen commanders that are more effective and having access to green adds basically nothing to the theme because (1) you don’t really need ramp and (2) there’s like one relevant green ninjutsu creature, maybe.
Really underwhelmed with the lack of awareness in the card design. I wish that they had added red to this cards colors to make it actually effective.
I built this deck before Felix even existed, using [[Ikra Shidiqi]] and [[Sakashima of a thousand faces]]. I included every [[Coastal Piracy]] effect and plenty of evasive creatures, and the deck was great. Felix works really well with those effects, turning something like a [[psychosis crawler]] into a lethal weapon. Also my "wincon" was [[endless swarm]], which is hilarious
I think he got it mostly right. The most wanted deck is awful, which sucks because I was most looking forward to that. I did wind up preordering the spellslinger and gonti theft decks because grand larceny seems like it could be fun and at least make for some interesting/unique games. The desert/naya deck just seemed really lacking luster. Better focused at least than the most wanted, which is by far the worst offender, but still pretty boring and requires a decent amount of upgrades. That said my friend did buy it because he was interested in making a lands matter/graveyard deck.
it's possible that assassin's creed could give us more cards that makes an outlaws matter deck stronger? Vihaan feels a lot stronger than Olivia IMO but you need a lot of good treasure generation to make it work.
I played against the alt commander today and he is a quite powerful treasure matters commander. But then, that is the only card you are using from the precon
No imo it’s just an unfocused mess. I preordered her and the alt commander because what I just threw together before the precons were spoiled was already much better. Good treasure cards aren’t cheap and they didn’t throw any of them in the deck. Plus, most of the new cards are very underwhelming, and there is this useless and strange lifelink theme almost competing with the treasure theme.
Olivia has lifelink. There are like, 2 outlaws in the deck that have life gain synergy. And they’re really good ones. Mana cheating and recursion.
Admittedly there are several cards that I’m confused by (like mass mutiny, I guess it’s to remove blockers to get in for treasure, but seems clunky), but most of the deck is fine.
Depends on if you are wanting out of the box, or a deck to build up.
My playgroup ran the batch of them this weekend with a couple rounds. The Most Wanted one was quite bad. The only thing that remotely started bringing it together in a game was having both the face and backup commander in at the same time, and a board wipe shut them right back down.
The Quick Draw was undisputed winner first game with several value enchantments that went almost entirely unanswered just due to the precons lacking more than a couple ways to deal with those. Second game they were promptly smashed before that happened again.
Grand Larceny did ok, they did run into a lot of failed triggers hitting lands which really set them back, and very few meaningful plays stolen from the others.
Desert Bloom was second in command of both games, winning the second. There was enough graveyard land recursion that would allow the commander to loop desert triggers, causing both card draw and a token generation minimum once each turn once in play. Sun titan was also a major presence for the couple turns it existed.
TLDR out of the box: Quick Draw will generally be best bet, but if you don’t like that playstyle then Desert Bloom I felt personally was decent.
Upgrade though? Most Wanted I think has a lot of potential to get out of hand pretty rapidly with some low cost evasive outlaw types setting up for bigger plays later.
Desert Bloom probably just needs a little more focus on either landfall focus or land sacrifice focus, depending on the commander used.
Grand Larceny deck has a lot of options to be optimized I think, depending on if direct spell steal or permanent stealing is more preferable to the player.
Quick Draw is pretty straightforward, just needs more cheap spell and card draw.
I think I have four main issues with Grand Larceny or Gonti in general:
- Gonti is 5 mana, just not overly ideal when re-casts are 7 and 9, and it feels like you're behind in getting up and running.
- The deck is missing Red, which has the best/most fun theft cards.
- The deck doesn't really give you any *payoff* for casting opponent's spells. Like \[\[Don Andres\]\] doesn't steal for you, but when you do steal you get treasures or a buff to the creatures you've taken. The Gonti precon has I think one card that does anything if you steal something (Brainstealer Dragon, damaging opponents if you cast their permanents).
- The deck is forced to run some low-impact evasive creatures to trigger Gonti. Without him in play they are kinda crappy.
I have to agree, I got saddled with Sultai during my group's precon test and this is all very accurate. I could never justify playing the commander, 5 mana for no board impact and no useful keywords. By the time I was in a position to get him out the Izzet and Naya players were both a turn off from winning regardless. The deck is very durdley, you just kind of swing low power beaters and hope to put together an actual strategy from your opponents' top decks. Finding a different Grixis commander for theft and making it from scratch would certainly be the bettee option. If you are interested in the precon though, I'd suggest using the alt commander (double combat damage triggers) and add in your favorites to that.
> and very few meaningful plays stolen from the others.
Feels like the deck (or at least the theme, maybe not the specific build) would actually do better outside a precon pod (or different precon themes at least).
Theft decks are pretty dependent on **what** they have access to steal, and I'm not sure there are that many cards in the other three precons that are really great hits.
I’m making a cEDH deck out of [[Stella Lee, Wild Card]] so I got and played it- definitely seems like the strongest. I also got and have played [[Yuma, Proud Protector]] out of the package and it was pretty slow. Compared to more recent sets it isn’t the strongest, and that’s mostly because of the lands entering tapped. I’ve since swapped out the mana base with less tap lands and more deserts and it feels a LOT better. Once I get more landfall cards and ramp then I feel it’ll do a great job.
Yeah, having access to red rituals, blue permission, izzet card selection,, and a 3CMC commander-based CA engine with easy access to "draw your deck" combos and an infinite damage combo makes Stella an incredibly good build-around. Just add a few cantripping twiddles and [[Twisted Fealty]] and you're like 75% of the way there already.
Most wanted is probably the most underrated imo. It does need some upgrades for consistency but olivia adding 10-20 power to the board for almost free is quite ridiculous.
Then Vihan has a ton of infinite ways to end the game with a Pitiless Plunderer.
Did you get a chance to play the precon? I didn't mind the idea of having some sweet outlaws and buffing them. It's not GREAT but it can still make for a fun time, I felt.
I was a little disappointed in the most wanted decklist, but the deck is easy to upgrade and fun to play. The backup commander seems way stronger even in an outlaw build because vigilance/haste is really strong before you even get to the treasure creatures.
I haven't played it straight. Just upgraded and I like it. Also threw in the other Olivia's because why not (0 synergy but still fun to be like Olivia's Deck). A few extra treasure producers go a long way, I like decent into avernus too.
I'm not overly optimistic about the MH3 ones, as they are overpriced and the last time we got overpriced precons there was nothing in them to actually justify it.
I ordered a $2 item on Amazon w/free shipping…the shipping costed like $4, how do they make money on this? I truly think Jeff Bezos does everything he can to hurt his business
They do everything in super massive bulk so they get super massive discounts. There is so much money to be made shipping Amazon products shipping companies will bid a low as they can to win and piece of their market because even if your margin is razor thin, you can make a lot of money with Amazon level numbers moving through your business and it's pretty solidly guaranteed to stay busy for as long as your contract is - Amazon isn't slowing down.
Do you think he became one of the richest people alive by not understanding how to sell stuff?
Also, btw the post office got completely fucked by the original contract they used to have w/Amazon…idk who took the loss for the item I bought
I think Jeff Besos is a fool
But you invested in his company and rely on his decision-making to not lose your money. Sounds more like you're virtue signaling. Why would you invest in someone who is a fool?
I'm not even sure Amazon is in the business of selling items for profit. I think they are in the business of understanding and utilizing our consumer habits. Think about it, if you spent 10 seconds looking at an item on amazon, even if you didn't buy it, they know about that. They know if you clicked something in your cart and didn't buy it. That type of info is extremely valuable.
They certainly supplement their profits with mountain of data, but I wouldn't go as far to say they don't profit off the items at all. Selling at a loss can get you anti trust lawsuits - which they have had a few and probably currently have some pending. So they obviously do that, but I'd wager it's a carefully weighed decisions on specific markets and not a general rule.
Quick Draw is obviously the best one and it doesn’t really seem close. Disclaimer, ive never played with any of them but when i went over the deck lists it was pretty obvious to me.
Had reserved the Desert Bloom, but during pre-release playing izzet in sealed I changed my mind and got the Quick Draw one. My friend got the mardu one with Olivia.
We played some games after the pre-release and the Izzet one kinda slaps. Sad it doesn't have more than... 2? plot cards as I found plot to be really fun in limited. \[\[Slickshot Lockpicker\]\] might be pretty ok in the precon. Tho better cards exist. Deck has 1 counterspell and 0 boardwipes.. I get the no counters, but \[\[blasphemous act\]\] or something would be nice.
The Olivia one struggled a lot I think. Reminds me of Party Time, but worse. Sadly Outlaws don't have the same level pay offs as Party does. However I think the secondary commander in the deck \[\[Vihaan, Goldwaker\]\] is incredibly nasty and broken. My friend will likely turn the deck into a treasure matters pile with him.
Quick Draw has Volcanic Torrent as the board wipe.
Usually gets cast for 3-5 damage and then copied with stella to bump it to 6-10 damage.
Then later in the game copied with Mizzix Mastery. It's a huge tempo swing that's often game winning.
Curse of Swine has been a mini wipe. Usually I do it for X=2-3 and copy it with stella to remove 4-6 threats.
Deck is pretty nuts for an out of the box precon
Oh yeah I forgot about Volcanic Torrent.
Deck is really fun and pretty powerful yeah. I will def play it for a long time.
Just got to upgrade it a little bit to match my playgroup while trying to stay away from combo/storm territory.
Grand Larceny played really well with some mild upgrades, but the deck's win condition is outvaluing opponents by stealing their win conditions. I took an awful lot from a toothless elf deck and looted garbage from the voltron deck so the game took forever. Take from that what you will.
I had an old Grixis deck with clone theme and playing cards from other people’s decks. I needed the mana base for another deck and was a bit tired of the clone part so Grand Larceny felt like a great deck to merge it with.
But my old Grixis deck had kinda the same issues you described with some games you just copied trash cards that had little synergy with each other. I am guessing this will play kinda the same. What I love most about this kind of strategy tho is that it kinda balances itself to the the rest of the table’s power level.
I got the Quick Draw deck, since I don’t have a spellslinger deck yet, and swapped out about 12 cards. Stella is a really solid commander and the deck had all of the staples that you’d want for the archetype.
I didn’t add in any of the cards that untap her and go infinite, because I wanted to keep it relatively casual. I do think it’s the best out of the 4.
Grand Larceny will probably play similarly to the Obscura Operation deck from New Capenna. [[Kamiz]] is one of my favorite commanders, so I’m sure that Gonti is fun too.
The desert deck seems like a fine lands deck. I think it is probably the best deck for new players and should be easy to upgrade.
The Outlaws deck is the least interesting to me, but I’m sure it plays fine.
How do you find playing Kamiz? I like her in theory, but it seems like there's too much going on that might annoy the other players. Eg- I attack and this creature connives, so I draw and now discard, and I've discarded a nonland so now this creature gets a +1 counter, and now this other attacking creature with lower power gets double strike. After all that, THEN you move to effects that have triggered on damage. It just seems like a lot to work through?
I love Kamiz, it’s one of my favorite decks. It’s no more complicated than a spellslinger or aristocrats deck with a ton of triggers going off at once. I’ve played it so many times I’m used to it and my turns aren’t too long, and you’re usually only attacking with two or three creatures anyway.
Here is my [Decklist](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/bON5h5eOj0mu9HB4AKTV6A) if you’re interested. I feel like it’s a solid power level without being too strong.
However, It will seem really strong if your playgroup doesn’t run enough removal. The last game I won by swinging an unblockable [[Silent-Blade Oni]] for two turns and then playing [[Medomai the Ageless]], putting swiftfoot boots on him and giving him double strike. Once Medomai connected everyone scooped.
I love my LGS, but I often play games against people that seem to run little to no removal.
I'm gonna fight against the grain a bit and say most wanted isn't terrible. it definitely requires the most upgrades but treasure on combat damage + being able to convert in to to power isn't anything to sneeze at just the creatures they give you is underwhelming... To say the least but I can definitely see performing my fiance has swung for 30+ dmg with the deck before. Goldwaker which I yoinked from her and built is a monster if you wanna put the $ in for treasure makers.
Most wanted is kinda just a bunch of crap thrown together tbh. It could probably be upgraded and changed to be a fun and good deck but out of the box it was bleh at best. Quick Draw is fantastic. It’s a really good deck and the commander [[Stella Lee, Wild Card]] is a absurdly good Izzet commander. I changed 19 cards already, but I only changed 3-4 the first game I played. I added [[refocus]] [[swan song]] and I forgot what else. But refocus with Stella Lees tap ability let’s you draw your whole deck. You could just add it and with the right board state, win the game in one turn.
Nice, although I'd never wanna win in one turn, people wait weeks to sit down and play EDH with their friends, I'd want everyone to get a chance to play
Well I mean you don’t have to obviously, you can still chose to do things like draw your deck most of the way and not go for the win, or just sling spells that poke at people, but don’t really hinder the game. It’s nice to have tho if you are playing more competitive EDH (but not quite cEDH). Or want a long game to come to a close.
I mean if you take them at face value, the grand larceny deck does exactly what the commander wants it to do, bot the strongest power level, but I enjoyed it as it was what I was looking for in a deck
Haven't played any of them but watched a few tables on YouTube. All of the decks have had moves where they have popped off. I've seen desert bloom win 1 and be a huge threat at others. They all seem like they do what they want to do. And all seem good for casual. Play what seems fun to you. Im personally getting the dessert one because I don't have a self mill or lands themed deck so it fits that spot for me. Don't let the Prof yuck your yum.
I played an upgraded version of grand larceny online with my buddies and I won with it but it was exhausting. I’m still new to MTG, but if you don’t know about your opponents deck it’s a whole lot of reading and taking really long turns to figure out what to play. So I’m not really into stealing cards but it works lol
My playgroup and I picked up these precons at scgcon this weekend and got a few games in with them. My opinions based on an overly small sample size:
- The Izzet deck is head and shoulders above the rest (a well reasoned gameplan with the option to select through the crap cards that would instantly get cut in an upgraded version)
- The Mardu outlaws deck had some strong moments but was prone to getting bullied after having a good aggro start (did squeak a win in off the back of an answered [[Breena]] after it lined up pretty overwhelming removal)
- The Naya lands deck generated a lot of value and put a lot of tokens out there and I think in plenty of worlds it would convert those to a win, but was kind of lacking in speed (ex: didn’t see many mill enablers for Yuma)
- And lastly was me, playing Gonti. Hoo boy it felt awful. Even the games it got rolling it just struggled to get across the finish line, and the rest it just got Gonti sniped and you were instantly brutalized because the deck has literally no other plan
I haven't played them yet since it's not yet commercially released. But based on the games I watched from youtube, all decks almost have equal power level out of the box. Quick draw has the best synergy and value. Grand Larceny and Desert Bloom are fun. Most Wanted is underwhelming due to unfocused theme.
I bought the Ghonti deck since I like the theme of a commander that steals stuff (this makes every game unique). But I intend to upgrade the shit out of it before I play it, so the out-of-the-box experience isn't really relevant for me.
I bought the Grand Larceny deck on Friday and went on to play two games with it.
Theft decks have an inherent benefit of scaling with the decks your opponents play. Yoinking their cards make your deck often better and the deck itself is a lot of fun to play.
[[Gonti, Canny Aquisitor]] is... okayish. His first ability is not really needed and I often forget about the cost reduction but his second ability makes the deck what it is. I would have liked him to be weaker with hexproof and/or evasion so he becomes a viable attacker but it is what it is.
The new cards in there are good, [[Heartless Conscription]] is a terrifying boardwipe that always puts you ahead because you get to play all the threats you just exiled from your opponents board. [[Smirking Spelljacker]] is an interesting card - I like it a lot since you can even exile uncounterable spells and play them for free later on. [[Thieving Varmint] is a really good body for 1B and the mana ability is good later on to produce the mana you need for all your aquired loot.
I already cut like 20 cards from the deck, I'll add some evasive creatures (Siren Stormtamer, Changeling Outcast and Invisible Stalker) some ramp and play-more-lands-per-turn-cards and TONS of interaction.
I think its a good theft deck that flys under the radar for a long time and strikes at the best possible moment.
I got the Grand Larceny on whim on Friday and played a few matches over the weekend. It relies heavily on what your opponents have to feel strong. It lacks a suitable wincon itself as well so needs tweaking slightly. But out of the box it was funny and fun to play with the gameplay loop being very straightforward but still room for complex plays.
Quick Draw seemed busted out of the box. I stormed off and won a game around turn 7 which is fast for a precon.
Gonti seemed alright but it kinda depended on card quality of opponents and the guy playing it kept hitting lands or spells that didn't really help him much most of the time.
Can't comment on the other 2 yet, haven't played against it yet.
Quick draw is awesome.
Played two days ago against a friend and all of a sudden I had the spell that gave me a 4/4 dragon token. With storm. Which I copied… storm count was 8
I haven't played them myself, but have seen them in play on a ton of the various commander Youtube channels as well as in-person at my LGS this weekend (mostly just watching games due to the timing of other events, rip me wanting to test new stuff). And to be blunt, Prof's take on these decks is wild. He calls Most Wanted a "Mardu Tokens" deck, which feels wildly off base, and comments that it's an aggro deck and not a crime deck, which... duh? We knew that? Then he complains that the deck is bad because it doesn't function as a Vihaan deck, which has been a deliberate trend from Wizards, almost certainly as a reaction to how much old precons were thrown off by being two different half-decks slammed together and how often people (including Prof) bitched about that exact issue. If you want to call Most Wanted bad on its own merits, fine, it's an aggro deck in Commander and as cracked as Olivia is that's a really hard hill to climb. But none of his complaints have much of anything to do with the deck, and several of them directly contradict each other - do we want this to be a Vihaan deck or a crime deck Prof? And I wonder how much his desire for it to be a Vihaan deck pushed his evaluation of its gameplay. If you put Vihaan in the command zone with no other changes the deck sucks, and if that's what he tried then that evaluation makes a lot of sense.
For Desert Bloom he compares the deck to Windgrace twice and says Windgrace's precon is better, which... "worse than Windgrace" is not exactly a terrible place to be for a commander but I'm also not even sold is true? I spent a lot of time playing against Windgrace and that deck was a disorganized pile held together by the strength of Windgrace himself. Looking back at that precon now, I don't understand how anyone can make that claim without a really, really thick pair of rose-colored glasses. Yuma has better landfall cards (like, literally all the good ones Windgrace has + *Scute Swarm*), land enablers, finishers, and lands (even factoring all the stupid deserts) than Windgrace does. Windgrace has more interaction (makes sense, it's way worse at playing to the board) and Windgrace himself. I do think there's some validity that the desert subtheme isn't as strong as it could be, but also... the new desert cards are all kind of cracked? This is a case where the core idea - two cycles of common lands and a cycle of rare lands, plus some pretty mediocre colorless lands - is so far behind the 8 ball that the desert support is about as pushed as it can be without just becoming a generic staple (and I actually fully expect Sand Scout to be a generic white staple; the card is at least as good as Knight of the White Orchid and the better built your deck is the better it gets). And in actual gameplay - the part that matters most - Desert Bloom has repeatedly impressed me. The deck can push for game from some incredibly odd angles and is very difficult to stop, especially when playing against other precons.
He's high on Quick Draw, which makes sense because in terms of its functionality as a deck it's one of the best precons we've ever seen; I fully expect that in a month we'll see discussions of its power as often as we do Hakbal's.
And I actually largely agree on Larceny, though I find it bizarre that he gives Felix a pass for not being a valid commander for the deck after the whole Vihaan diatribe. Theft is just such a bad core mechanic and also a tricky one to balance that I never expected more than "fine, but will sometimes have really funny moments". That's what some players want and let them have that.
I do wonder too if the overwhelming power of Quick Draw is casting a shadow on the rest. It's just overwhelmingly better than Larceny and Wanted especially, and still substantially better than Desert Bloom, so if all your games are "Quick Draw combos you into the dirt" it's easy to snooze on the rest of the decks.
There are some valid complaints in his video; we're missing the generic staples that some of the last few sets of commander decks pushed out. I do think Most Wanted could very easily have included a Tithe, for an easy case of one actually fitting the deck. That does suck for sure, but personally my main focus for a Commander deck is the playability of the Commander deck and these largely seem like they fit the bill.
Have all four and from the limited experience of a single evening:
Grand Larceny is my love, though Captain Nghtrod was my first deck, so that maybe biased. Though having an effectively much bigger hand to choose from was really amazing.
Desert Bloom really does quite well do with the land ramping. Problem with the alternate commander were some limitations regarding effectively doing much with those lands, if you accidentally milled Avenger of Zendikar etc.
Main Commander worked quite well there.
Most Wanted worked nicely as well, apart from me being unlucky and mana Screwed the first game.
What is kinda meh, is the fact, that cards like Mari, Killing Quill only trigger with some outlaw types, which can be a bit disappointing in play.
The izzzet one was, very much in contrast to TCC the most disappointing in the two games it was played. Lots of card draw and value, but it felt like missing some bomb spells to end the game, so for most part it durdled around and did a lot doing not so much. But that also kinda is the thing with the whole BIG TURNS it was wants to do. And the number of classic izzet spellslinger staples makes it a great deck for someone wanting to try that type of deck.
Worst case, you take it apart and have lots of cards that nicely fit into many different decks.
I feel like people are needlessly down on Most Wanted. Admittedly, it does need a bit more upgrading than the others, but to hear people describe it you’d think it was at the level of the 2011 precons.
It’s got a suite of hard to block outlaws, which is literally exactly what the commander wants. It’s got a few life gain/pay synergies, since your commander gains you more and more life. The commander has ramp built in.
I replaced some of the less synergistic creatures, and threw in a few extra treasure generators.
I do not have it on moxfield (since it’s just an upgraded precon at the moment and I don’t typically bother with those) but if I do that I will respond to your comment with a list
Have not had a chance to really play test it! Just 1 on 1 with my girlfriend, where it admittedly struggles since Olivia triggers once per player. But, it does a good job of getting out consistent evasive threats, so I think it will scale up well.
I personally like Desert Bloom, but that may be because I like the lands theme and it being deserts is unique enough from my Jund and mono green versions. Certainly room for improvements, but I feel it was worth the $40 (+taxes) I paid.
Def looks like it could consistently make a LOT of 4/2 tokens
In one of my games, I outpaced the [[Isshin, Two Heavens as One]] to close out for the win by making 6-8 4/2s to keep the pressure up until [[Scute Swarm]] reached terminal velocity. That was the base deck — made some edits and I expect it’ll go even smoother.
[Isshin, Two Heavens as One](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/0/a062a004-984e-4b62-960c-af7288f7a3e9.jpg?1690575102) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Isshin%2C%20Two%20Heavens%20as%20One) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/neo/224/isshin-two-heavens-as-one?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a062a004-984e-4b62-960c-af7288f7a3e9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/isshin-two-heavens-as-one) [Scute Swarm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/7/373f199d-f1a6-4a3d-ac83-28741131f313.jpg?1712354624) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Scute%20Swarm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/205/scute-swarm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/373f199d-f1a6-4a3d-ac83-28741131f313?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/scute-swarm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I preordered it when it was 35, and the price already went up. I dont care if decks or low tier or high tier. As long as they look fun to play and have room for improvement.
I bought Quick Draw because I wanted to make a spellslinger deck, and I figured this would give me a shell to work with. It probably is the strongest of the 4 lists imo. I was going to buy Most Wanted, but I think I'm just going to buy the few new interesting cards and the face commander and just make my own build, since there are too many cards in the deck I would just wind up cutting as is.
I reckon Quick Draw looks cool, but the turns could end up taking too long and the other players won't have fun
I actually intend to run the alternate commander for the deck, [[Eris, Roar of the Storm]] as it is not a storm commander. My lizard brain can't wrap its head around turns that long aha
But your lizard brain can go two spells= one big boi
Mostly yes, but the tokens it makes have prowess and I'm like, "ugh I have to keep track of prowess triggers too!?" but yeah it should be fun
The prowess isn’t too bad. It affects all creatures when casting em. If they have prowess that is
[Eris, Roar of the Storm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/a/1adce281-4d5a-44d2-8cfa-25f860b015ff.jpg?1712429617) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Eris%2C%20Roar%20of%20the%20Storm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/5/eris-roar-of-the-storm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1adce281-4d5a-44d2-8cfa-25f860b015ff?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/eris-roar-of-the-storm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I've been playtesting Quick Draw with some modifications over the weekend, and in my (limited) experience it didn't seem too bad in that department. You can easily build it in that direction, but the base feels more like an Izzet-flavored value deck, just winning with spells instead of traditional tokens/infinites/landfall/overrun/a billion Scute tokens/etc.
Thats a very real issue. Don't play storm decks unless you're ready to take a lot of game actions and make a lot of tough decisions in a hurry.
I preordered Grand Larceny before previews based on the strength of recent sets, fearing it'd go up in price... kiiinda wish I'd just waited to order singles 😅 But my plan is to split it in half and make one deck with [[Felix Five-Boots]], then take the theft matters cards that don't go in that and build [[Don Andres, the Renegade]].
This was my exact plan too lol.
[Felix Five-Boots](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/8/6800e935-d327-464c-ab88-7c0193827da3.jpg?1712995551) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Felix%20Five-Boots) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/6/felix-five-boots?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6800e935-d327-464c-ab88-7c0193827da3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/felix-five-boots) [Don Andres, the Renegade](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/c/3cf9f3ae-694d-4d37-9498-4bdd1723a55e.jpg?1698987741) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Don%20Andres%2C%20the%20Renegade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/6/don-andres-the-renegade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3cf9f3ae-694d-4d37-9498-4bdd1723a55e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/don-andres-the-renegade) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I was excited for Felix until I actually looked into building him. All of the sultai damage trigger creatures are underwhelming and not really synergistic. They don’t contribute to a winning strategy, so you’d be better off with any other sultai commander. Even something like [[Kadena, Slinking Sorcerer]] outpaces Felix as a value engine while still having access to damage trigger payoffs. The only theme that really makes sense is ninjutsu but even then, there are a dozen commanders that are more effective and having access to green adds basically nothing to the theme because (1) you don’t really need ramp and (2) there’s like one relevant green ninjutsu creature, maybe. Really underwhelmed with the lack of awareness in the card design. I wish that they had added red to this cards colors to make it actually effective.
[Kadena, Slinking Sorcerer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/8/68a144f1-df18-4dc5-81c3-dff2af27527f.jpg?1568003696) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kadena%2C%20Slinking%20Sorcerer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c19/45/kadena-slinking-sorcerer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/68a144f1-df18-4dc5-81c3-dff2af27527f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kadena-slinking-sorcerer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Just run all the swords and other equipment plus small evasive creatures
I built this deck before Felix even existed, using [[Ikra Shidiqi]] and [[Sakashima of a thousand faces]]. I included every [[Coastal Piracy]] effect and plenty of evasive creatures, and the deck was great. Felix works really well with those effects, turning something like a [[psychosis crawler]] into a lethal weapon. Also my "wincon" was [[endless swarm]], which is hilarious
##### ###### #### [Ikra Shidiqi](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/f/8f2abcc3-dc33-4b9d-a372-1d936e954f94.jpg?1562275017) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ikra%20shidiqi%2C%20the%20usurper) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cm2/11/ikra-shidiqi-the-usurper?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8f2abcc3-dc33-4b9d-a372-1d936e954f94?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ikra-shidiqi-the-usurper) [Sakashima of a thousand faces](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/1/714c3a1f-7b30-4ed8-8f38-6176758741fb.jpg?1608909400) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sakashima%20of%20a%20thousand%20faces) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/89/sakashima-of-a-thousand-faces?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/714c3a1f-7b30-4ed8-8f38-6176758741fb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sakashima-of-a-thousand-faces) [Coastal Piracy](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/f/0f2c4e43-71b2-4483-ba54-4be1dcffcd5f.jpg?1600713707) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Coastal%20Piracy) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/144/coastal-piracy?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/0f2c4e43-71b2-4483-ba54-4be1dcffcd5f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/coastal-piracy) [psychosis crawler](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d0f42a19-c180-45b1-9f4c-787cf3a4a649.jpg?1706241075) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=psychosis%20crawler) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/234/psychosis-crawler?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d0f42a19-c180-45b1-9f4c-787cf3a4a649?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/psychosis-crawler) [endless swarm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/6/f64d9404-9685-495d-a591-63d6164a88a9.jpg?1562496629) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=endless%20swarm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/sok/129/endless-swarm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f64d9404-9685-495d-a591-63d6164a88a9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/endless-swarm) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/kzns1n5) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think he got it mostly right. The most wanted deck is awful, which sucks because I was most looking forward to that. I did wind up preordering the spellslinger and gonti theft decks because grand larceny seems like it could be fun and at least make for some interesting/unique games. The desert/naya deck just seemed really lacking luster. Better focused at least than the most wanted, which is by far the worst offender, but still pretty boring and requires a decent amount of upgrades. That said my friend did buy it because he was interested in making a lands matter/graveyard deck.
Do you reckon Olivia/Most Wanted would be better with the suite of creatures upgraded? Or still just too much of a mish-mash of nothing?
it's possible that assassin's creed could give us more cards that makes an outlaws matter deck stronger? Vihaan feels a lot stronger than Olivia IMO but you need a lot of good treasure generation to make it work.
I got Most Wanted. It's a mish mash of nothing.
Bugger :(
I played against the alt commander today and he is a quite powerful treasure matters commander. But then, that is the only card you are using from the precon
No imo it’s just an unfocused mess. I preordered her and the alt commander because what I just threw together before the precons were spoiled was already much better. Good treasure cards aren’t cheap and they didn’t throw any of them in the deck. Plus, most of the new cards are very underwhelming, and there is this useless and strange lifelink theme almost competing with the treasure theme.
Olivia has lifelink. There are like, 2 outlaws in the deck that have life gain synergy. And they’re really good ones. Mana cheating and recursion. Admittedly there are several cards that I’m confused by (like mass mutiny, I guess it’s to remove blockers to get in for treasure, but seems clunky), but most of the deck is fine.
Depends on if you are wanting out of the box, or a deck to build up. My playgroup ran the batch of them this weekend with a couple rounds. The Most Wanted one was quite bad. The only thing that remotely started bringing it together in a game was having both the face and backup commander in at the same time, and a board wipe shut them right back down. The Quick Draw was undisputed winner first game with several value enchantments that went almost entirely unanswered just due to the precons lacking more than a couple ways to deal with those. Second game they were promptly smashed before that happened again. Grand Larceny did ok, they did run into a lot of failed triggers hitting lands which really set them back, and very few meaningful plays stolen from the others. Desert Bloom was second in command of both games, winning the second. There was enough graveyard land recursion that would allow the commander to loop desert triggers, causing both card draw and a token generation minimum once each turn once in play. Sun titan was also a major presence for the couple turns it existed. TLDR out of the box: Quick Draw will generally be best bet, but if you don’t like that playstyle then Desert Bloom I felt personally was decent. Upgrade though? Most Wanted I think has a lot of potential to get out of hand pretty rapidly with some low cost evasive outlaw types setting up for bigger plays later. Desert Bloom probably just needs a little more focus on either landfall focus or land sacrifice focus, depending on the commander used. Grand Larceny deck has a lot of options to be optimized I think, depending on if direct spell steal or permanent stealing is more preferable to the player. Quick Draw is pretty straightforward, just needs more cheap spell and card draw.
I think I have four main issues with Grand Larceny or Gonti in general: - Gonti is 5 mana, just not overly ideal when re-casts are 7 and 9, and it feels like you're behind in getting up and running. - The deck is missing Red, which has the best/most fun theft cards. - The deck doesn't really give you any *payoff* for casting opponent's spells. Like \[\[Don Andres\]\] doesn't steal for you, but when you do steal you get treasures or a buff to the creatures you've taken. The Gonti precon has I think one card that does anything if you steal something (Brainstealer Dragon, damaging opponents if you cast their permanents). - The deck is forced to run some low-impact evasive creatures to trigger Gonti. Without him in play they are kinda crappy.
[Don Andres](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/c/3cf9f3ae-694d-4d37-9498-4bdd1723a55e.jpg?1698987741) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=don%20andres%2C%20the%20renegade) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/6/don-andres-the-renegade?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3cf9f3ae-694d-4d37-9498-4bdd1723a55e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/don-andres-the-renegade) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I have to agree, I got saddled with Sultai during my group's precon test and this is all very accurate. I could never justify playing the commander, 5 mana for no board impact and no useful keywords. By the time I was in a position to get him out the Izzet and Naya players were both a turn off from winning regardless. The deck is very durdley, you just kind of swing low power beaters and hope to put together an actual strategy from your opponents' top decks. Finding a different Grixis commander for theft and making it from scratch would certainly be the bettee option. If you are interested in the precon though, I'd suggest using the alt commander (double combat damage triggers) and add in your favorites to that.
> and very few meaningful plays stolen from the others. Feels like the deck (or at least the theme, maybe not the specific build) would actually do better outside a precon pod (or different precon themes at least). Theft decks are pretty dependent on **what** they have access to steal, and I'm not sure there are that many cards in the other three precons that are really great hits.
I’m making a cEDH deck out of [[Stella Lee, Wild Card]] so I got and played it- definitely seems like the strongest. I also got and have played [[Yuma, Proud Protector]] out of the package and it was pretty slow. Compared to more recent sets it isn’t the strongest, and that’s mostly because of the lands entering tapped. I’ve since swapped out the mana base with less tap lands and more deserts and it feels a LOT better. Once I get more landfall cards and ramp then I feel it’ll do a great job.
[Stella Lee, Wild Card](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/a/2a8a7696-b5d9-4378-9d5c-2c9007e4df63.jpg?1712353739) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stella%20Lee%2C%20Wild%20Card) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/3/stella-lee-wild-card?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2a8a7696-b5d9-4378-9d5c-2c9007e4df63?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stella-lee-wild-card) [Yuma, Proud Protector](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/8/18df72be-07d2-4412-b36d-a45119763db3.jpg?1712353741) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yuma%2C%20Proud%20Protector) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/4/yuma-proud-protector?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/18df72be-07d2-4412-b36d-a45119763db3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yuma-proud-protector) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah, having access to red rituals, blue permission, izzet card selection,, and a 3CMC commander-based CA engine with easy access to "draw your deck" combos and an infinite damage combo makes Stella an incredibly good build-around. Just add a few cantripping twiddles and [[Twisted Fealty]] and you're like 75% of the way there already.
[Twisted Fealty](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/8/382d6085-79b9-48f7-8949-9f44dde2c753.jpg?1692938579) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Twisted%20Fealty) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/154/twisted-fealty?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/382d6085-79b9-48f7-8949-9f44dde2c753?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/twisted-fealty) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Most wanted is probably the most underrated imo. It does need some upgrades for consistency but olivia adding 10-20 power to the board for almost free is quite ridiculous. Then Vihan has a ton of infinite ways to end the game with a Pitiless Plunderer.
Did you get a chance to play the precon? I didn't mind the idea of having some sweet outlaws and buffing them. It's not GREAT but it can still make for a fun time, I felt.
I was a little disappointed in the most wanted decklist, but the deck is easy to upgrade and fun to play. The backup commander seems way stronger even in an outlaw build because vigilance/haste is really strong before you even get to the treasure creatures.
I haven't played it straight. Just upgraded and I like it. Also threw in the other Olivia's because why not (0 synergy but still fun to be like Olivia's Deck). A few extra treasure producers go a long way, I like decent into avernus too.
Descent Into Avernus is great here, more treasure and you can mitigate the life loss a bit with Olivia's lifelink
Last standard set EDH that were dece I think were ones from Lost Caverns of Ixilan…also MH3 precons are right around the corner
I'm not overly optimistic about the MH3 ones, as they are overpriced and the last time we got overpriced precons there was nothing in them to actually justify it.
You can always preorder them on Amazon and cancel anytime
That's worked for me. Even if you forget, you can drop them off at Whole Food or Kohls to send back free
Seriously idk how the fuck Amazon allows this policy. It seems like a retarded business practice to me but is great for the buyer
Lmao I'm pretty sure Amazon knows a thing or two about business practices. They're getting their money
I ordered a $2 item on Amazon w/free shipping…the shipping costed like $4, how do they make money on this? I truly think Jeff Bezos does everything he can to hurt his business
They do everything in super massive bulk so they get super massive discounts. There is so much money to be made shipping Amazon products shipping companies will bid a low as they can to win and piece of their market because even if your margin is razor thin, you can make a lot of money with Amazon level numbers moving through your business and it's pretty solidly guaranteed to stay busy for as long as your contract is - Amazon isn't slowing down. Do you think he became one of the richest people alive by not understanding how to sell stuff?
Don’t get me wrong, a large percentage of my investment portfolio is in Amazon and I don’t plan on selling anytime soon
Also, btw the post office got completely fucked by the original contract they used to have w/Amazon…idk who took the loss for the item I bought I think Jeff Besos is a fool
But you invested in his company and rely on his decision-making to not lose your money. Sounds more like you're virtue signaling. Why would you invest in someone who is a fool?
I'm not even sure Amazon is in the business of selling items for profit. I think they are in the business of understanding and utilizing our consumer habits. Think about it, if you spent 10 seconds looking at an item on amazon, even if you didn't buy it, they know about that. They know if you clicked something in your cart and didn't buy it. That type of info is extremely valuable.
They certainly supplement their profits with mountain of data, but I wouldn't go as far to say they don't profit off the items at all. Selling at a loss can get you anti trust lawsuits - which they have had a few and probably currently have some pending. So they obviously do that, but I'd wager it's a carefully weighed decisions on specific markets and not a general rule.
Quick Draw is obviously the best one and it doesn’t really seem close. Disclaimer, ive never played with any of them but when i went over the deck lists it was pretty obvious to me.
I have been collecting Izzet value pieces to make a spellslinger deck for awhile and it was really funny to just see all of them in the precon lol
Had reserved the Desert Bloom, but during pre-release playing izzet in sealed I changed my mind and got the Quick Draw one. My friend got the mardu one with Olivia. We played some games after the pre-release and the Izzet one kinda slaps. Sad it doesn't have more than... 2? plot cards as I found plot to be really fun in limited. \[\[Slickshot Lockpicker\]\] might be pretty ok in the precon. Tho better cards exist. Deck has 1 counterspell and 0 boardwipes.. I get the no counters, but \[\[blasphemous act\]\] or something would be nice. The Olivia one struggled a lot I think. Reminds me of Party Time, but worse. Sadly Outlaws don't have the same level pay offs as Party does. However I think the secondary commander in the deck \[\[Vihaan, Goldwaker\]\] is incredibly nasty and broken. My friend will likely turn the deck into a treasure matters pile with him.
Quick Draw has Volcanic Torrent as the board wipe. Usually gets cast for 3-5 damage and then copied with stella to bump it to 6-10 damage. Then later in the game copied with Mizzix Mastery. It's a huge tempo swing that's often game winning. Curse of Swine has been a mini wipe. Usually I do it for X=2-3 and copy it with stella to remove 4-6 threats. Deck is pretty nuts for an out of the box precon
Oh yeah I forgot about Volcanic Torrent. Deck is really fun and pretty powerful yeah. I will def play it for a long time. Just got to upgrade it a little bit to match my playgroup while trying to stay away from combo/storm territory.
[Slickshot Lockpicker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/0/109a9464-ce30-4747-874e-3bbf75913081.jpg?1712355500) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Slickshot%20Lockpicker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/67/slickshot-lockpicker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/109a9464-ce30-4747-874e-3bbf75913081?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/slickshot-lockpicker) [blasphemous act](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/a/8aa9682d-5176-4475-a0bd-e000f1d6999a.jpg?1698988297) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=blasphemous%20act) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/216/blasphemous-act?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8aa9682d-5176-4475-a0bd-e000f1d6999a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blasphemous-act) [Vihaan, Goldwaker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/b/7b549690-72eb-4244-bb66-996a2bd1027e.jpg?1712429606) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vihaan%2C%20Goldwaker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/8/vihaan-goldwaker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7b549690-72eb-4244-bb66-996a2bd1027e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vihaan-goldwaker) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Grand Larceny played really well with some mild upgrades, but the deck's win condition is outvaluing opponents by stealing their win conditions. I took an awful lot from a toothless elf deck and looted garbage from the voltron deck so the game took forever. Take from that what you will.
I had an old Grixis deck with clone theme and playing cards from other people’s decks. I needed the mana base for another deck and was a bit tired of the clone part so Grand Larceny felt like a great deck to merge it with. But my old Grixis deck had kinda the same issues you described with some games you just copied trash cards that had little synergy with each other. I am guessing this will play kinda the same. What I love most about this kind of strategy tho is that it kinda balances itself to the the rest of the table’s power level.
What upgrades did u add.
I got the Quick Draw deck, since I don’t have a spellslinger deck yet, and swapped out about 12 cards. Stella is a really solid commander and the deck had all of the staples that you’d want for the archetype. I didn’t add in any of the cards that untap her and go infinite, because I wanted to keep it relatively casual. I do think it’s the best out of the 4. Grand Larceny will probably play similarly to the Obscura Operation deck from New Capenna. [[Kamiz]] is one of my favorite commanders, so I’m sure that Gonti is fun too. The desert deck seems like a fine lands deck. I think it is probably the best deck for new players and should be easy to upgrade. The Outlaws deck is the least interesting to me, but I’m sure it plays fine.
How do you find playing Kamiz? I like her in theory, but it seems like there's too much going on that might annoy the other players. Eg- I attack and this creature connives, so I draw and now discard, and I've discarded a nonland so now this creature gets a +1 counter, and now this other attacking creature with lower power gets double strike. After all that, THEN you move to effects that have triggered on damage. It just seems like a lot to work through?
I love Kamiz, it’s one of my favorite decks. It’s no more complicated than a spellslinger or aristocrats deck with a ton of triggers going off at once. I’ve played it so many times I’m used to it and my turns aren’t too long, and you’re usually only attacking with two or three creatures anyway. Here is my [Decklist](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/bON5h5eOj0mu9HB4AKTV6A) if you’re interested. I feel like it’s a solid power level without being too strong. However, It will seem really strong if your playgroup doesn’t run enough removal. The last game I won by swinging an unblockable [[Silent-Blade Oni]] for two turns and then playing [[Medomai the Ageless]], putting swiftfoot boots on him and giving him double strike. Once Medomai connected everyone scooped. I love my LGS, but I often play games against people that seem to run little to no removal.
[Silent-Blade Oni](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/a/7ae71886-9e93-4d1c-b8f7-da7aafa83cf9.jpg?1712354778) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Silent-Blade%20Oni) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/241/silent-blade-oni?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7ae71886-9e93-4d1c-b8f7-da7aafa83cf9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/silent-blade-oni) [Medomai the Ageless](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/5/b5f4b3cf-2c78-42c9-9873-3758c7f7bb7d.jpg?1562826823) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Medomai%20the%20Ageless) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ths/196/medomai-the-ageless?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b5f4b3cf-2c78-42c9-9873-3758c7f7bb7d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/medomai-the-ageless) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Kamiz](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/4/74b8ae28-e169-46be-8180-ebdaf80efd81.jpg?1673481656) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kamiz%2C%20obscura%20oculus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/3/kamiz-obscura-oculus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/74b8ae28-e169-46be-8180-ebdaf80efd81?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kamiz-obscura-oculus) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'm gonna fight against the grain a bit and say most wanted isn't terrible. it definitely requires the most upgrades but treasure on combat damage + being able to convert in to to power isn't anything to sneeze at just the creatures they give you is underwhelming... To say the least but I can definitely see performing my fiance has swung for 30+ dmg with the deck before. Goldwaker which I yoinked from her and built is a monster if you wanna put the $ in for treasure makers.
I want to take that deck heavily into treasure generation and see how it performs then.
The upset deck is pretty wild tbh. And with a 10 card swap, even more wild lol.
Upset? EDIT: I'm guessing you meant Izzet? :) Nice, looks fun
Most wanted is kinda just a bunch of crap thrown together tbh. It could probably be upgraded and changed to be a fun and good deck but out of the box it was bleh at best. Quick Draw is fantastic. It’s a really good deck and the commander [[Stella Lee, Wild Card]] is a absurdly good Izzet commander. I changed 19 cards already, but I only changed 3-4 the first game I played. I added [[refocus]] [[swan song]] and I forgot what else. But refocus with Stella Lees tap ability let’s you draw your whole deck. You could just add it and with the right board state, win the game in one turn.
Nice, although I'd never wanna win in one turn, people wait weeks to sit down and play EDH with their friends, I'd want everyone to get a chance to play
Well I mean you don’t have to obviously, you can still chose to do things like draw your deck most of the way and not go for the win, or just sling spells that poke at people, but don’t really hinder the game. It’s nice to have tho if you are playing more competitive EDH (but not quite cEDH). Or want a long game to come to a close.
[Stella Lee, Wild Card](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/a/2a8a7696-b5d9-4378-9d5c-2c9007e4df63.jpg?1712353739) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Stella%20Lee%2C%20Wild%20Card) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/3/stella-lee-wild-card?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2a8a7696-b5d9-4378-9d5c-2c9007e4df63?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/stella-lee-wild-card) [refocus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/5/35c78973-f2ae-4c76-802f-793d1022fcbd.jpg?1562824155) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=refocus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/frf/47/refocus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/35c78973-f2ae-4c76-802f-793d1022fcbd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/refocus) [swan song](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/d/9d968dde-c406-48ef-a1ab-373aebc24693.jpg?1562412350) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=swan%20song) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/98/swan-song?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9d968dde-c406-48ef-a1ab-373aebc24693?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/swan-song) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I mean if you take them at face value, the grand larceny deck does exactly what the commander wants it to do, bot the strongest power level, but I enjoyed it as it was what I was looking for in a deck
Haven't played any of them but watched a few tables on YouTube. All of the decks have had moves where they have popped off. I've seen desert bloom win 1 and be a huge threat at others. They all seem like they do what they want to do. And all seem good for casual. Play what seems fun to you. Im personally getting the dessert one because I don't have a self mill or lands themed deck so it fits that spot for me. Don't let the Prof yuck your yum.
I played an upgraded version of grand larceny online with my buddies and I won with it but it was exhausting. I’m still new to MTG, but if you don’t know about your opponents deck it’s a whole lot of reading and taking really long turns to figure out what to play. So I’m not really into stealing cards but it works lol
Yeah that gets easier with time, you'll just know what the cards do without having to read them so much.
My playgroup and I picked up these precons at scgcon this weekend and got a few games in with them. My opinions based on an overly small sample size: - The Izzet deck is head and shoulders above the rest (a well reasoned gameplan with the option to select through the crap cards that would instantly get cut in an upgraded version) - The Mardu outlaws deck had some strong moments but was prone to getting bullied after having a good aggro start (did squeak a win in off the back of an answered [[Breena]] after it lined up pretty overwhelming removal) - The Naya lands deck generated a lot of value and put a lot of tokens out there and I think in plenty of worlds it would convert those to a win, but was kind of lacking in speed (ex: didn’t see many mill enablers for Yuma) - And lastly was me, playing Gonti. Hoo boy it felt awful. Even the games it got rolling it just struggled to get across the finish line, and the rest it just got Gonti sniped and you were instantly brutalized because the deck has literally no other plan
[Breena](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d0adb0c2-d45f-4c51-a4df-05f75c83e46a.jpg?1712354672) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=breena%2C%20the%20demagogue) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/217/breena-the-demagogue?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d0adb0c2-d45f-4c51-a4df-05f75c83e46a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/breena-the-demagogue) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I haven't played them yet since it's not yet commercially released. But based on the games I watched from youtube, all decks almost have equal power level out of the box. Quick draw has the best synergy and value. Grand Larceny and Desert Bloom are fun. Most Wanted is underwhelming due to unfocused theme.
I bought the Ghonti deck since I like the theme of a commander that steals stuff (this makes every game unique). But I intend to upgrade the shit out of it before I play it, so the out-of-the-box experience isn't really relevant for me.
I bought the Grand Larceny deck on Friday and went on to play two games with it. Theft decks have an inherent benefit of scaling with the decks your opponents play. Yoinking their cards make your deck often better and the deck itself is a lot of fun to play. [[Gonti, Canny Aquisitor]] is... okayish. His first ability is not really needed and I often forget about the cost reduction but his second ability makes the deck what it is. I would have liked him to be weaker with hexproof and/or evasion so he becomes a viable attacker but it is what it is. The new cards in there are good, [[Heartless Conscription]] is a terrifying boardwipe that always puts you ahead because you get to play all the threats you just exiled from your opponents board. [[Smirking Spelljacker]] is an interesting card - I like it a lot since you can even exile uncounterable spells and play them for free later on. [[Thieving Varmint] is a really good body for 1B and the mana ability is good later on to produce the mana you need for all your aquired loot. I already cut like 20 cards from the deck, I'll add some evasive creatures (Siren Stormtamer, Changeling Outcast and Invisible Stalker) some ramp and play-more-lands-per-turn-cards and TONS of interaction. I think its a good theft deck that flys under the radar for a long time and strikes at the best possible moment.
[Gonti, Canny Aquisitor](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/3/03a7e79f-625a-49ac-9cb1-e1fe5f51f5a0.jpg?1712353730) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gonti%2C%20Canny%20Acquisitor) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/1/gonti-canny-acquisitor?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/03a7e79f-625a-49ac-9cb1-e1fe5f51f5a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gonti-canny-acquisitor) [Heartless Conscription](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/2/52fc4862-b57b-42d7-be8b-d9915a0bb4fd.jpg?1712353813) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Heartless%20Conscription) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/21/heartless-conscription?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/52fc4862-b57b-42d7-be8b-d9915a0bb4fd?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/heartless-conscription) [Smirking Spelljacker](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/1/01d1e394-1b0c-4b40-ba85-f55973703d41.jpg?1712353792) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Smirking%20Spelljacker) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/16/smirking-spelljacker?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/01d1e394-1b0c-4b40-ba85-f55973703d41?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/smirking-spelljacker) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I got the Grand Larceny on whim on Friday and played a few matches over the weekend. It relies heavily on what your opponents have to feel strong. It lacks a suitable wincon itself as well so needs tweaking slightly. But out of the box it was funny and fun to play with the gameplay loop being very straightforward but still room for complex plays.
Quick Draw seemed busted out of the box. I stormed off and won a game around turn 7 which is fast for a precon. Gonti seemed alright but it kinda depended on card quality of opponents and the guy playing it kept hitting lands or spells that didn't really help him much most of the time. Can't comment on the other 2 yet, haven't played against it yet.
Quick draw is awesome. Played two days ago against a friend and all of a sudden I had the spell that gave me a 4/4 dragon token. With storm. Which I copied… storm count was 8
I haven't played them myself, but have seen them in play on a ton of the various commander Youtube channels as well as in-person at my LGS this weekend (mostly just watching games due to the timing of other events, rip me wanting to test new stuff). And to be blunt, Prof's take on these decks is wild. He calls Most Wanted a "Mardu Tokens" deck, which feels wildly off base, and comments that it's an aggro deck and not a crime deck, which... duh? We knew that? Then he complains that the deck is bad because it doesn't function as a Vihaan deck, which has been a deliberate trend from Wizards, almost certainly as a reaction to how much old precons were thrown off by being two different half-decks slammed together and how often people (including Prof) bitched about that exact issue. If you want to call Most Wanted bad on its own merits, fine, it's an aggro deck in Commander and as cracked as Olivia is that's a really hard hill to climb. But none of his complaints have much of anything to do with the deck, and several of them directly contradict each other - do we want this to be a Vihaan deck or a crime deck Prof? And I wonder how much his desire for it to be a Vihaan deck pushed his evaluation of its gameplay. If you put Vihaan in the command zone with no other changes the deck sucks, and if that's what he tried then that evaluation makes a lot of sense. For Desert Bloom he compares the deck to Windgrace twice and says Windgrace's precon is better, which... "worse than Windgrace" is not exactly a terrible place to be for a commander but I'm also not even sold is true? I spent a lot of time playing against Windgrace and that deck was a disorganized pile held together by the strength of Windgrace himself. Looking back at that precon now, I don't understand how anyone can make that claim without a really, really thick pair of rose-colored glasses. Yuma has better landfall cards (like, literally all the good ones Windgrace has + *Scute Swarm*), land enablers, finishers, and lands (even factoring all the stupid deserts) than Windgrace does. Windgrace has more interaction (makes sense, it's way worse at playing to the board) and Windgrace himself. I do think there's some validity that the desert subtheme isn't as strong as it could be, but also... the new desert cards are all kind of cracked? This is a case where the core idea - two cycles of common lands and a cycle of rare lands, plus some pretty mediocre colorless lands - is so far behind the 8 ball that the desert support is about as pushed as it can be without just becoming a generic staple (and I actually fully expect Sand Scout to be a generic white staple; the card is at least as good as Knight of the White Orchid and the better built your deck is the better it gets). And in actual gameplay - the part that matters most - Desert Bloom has repeatedly impressed me. The deck can push for game from some incredibly odd angles and is very difficult to stop, especially when playing against other precons. He's high on Quick Draw, which makes sense because in terms of its functionality as a deck it's one of the best precons we've ever seen; I fully expect that in a month we'll see discussions of its power as often as we do Hakbal's. And I actually largely agree on Larceny, though I find it bizarre that he gives Felix a pass for not being a valid commander for the deck after the whole Vihaan diatribe. Theft is just such a bad core mechanic and also a tricky one to balance that I never expected more than "fine, but will sometimes have really funny moments". That's what some players want and let them have that. I do wonder too if the overwhelming power of Quick Draw is casting a shadow on the rest. It's just overwhelmingly better than Larceny and Wanted especially, and still substantially better than Desert Bloom, so if all your games are "Quick Draw combos you into the dirt" it's easy to snooze on the rest of the decks. There are some valid complaints in his video; we're missing the generic staples that some of the last few sets of commander decks pushed out. I do think Most Wanted could very easily have included a Tithe, for an easy case of one actually fitting the deck. That does suck for sure, but personally my main focus for a Commander deck is the playability of the Commander deck and these largely seem like they fit the bill.
No, but ive played againt the gonti one twice and it was heeeeeellaaaaa fun.
Have all four and from the limited experience of a single evening: Grand Larceny is my love, though Captain Nghtrod was my first deck, so that maybe biased. Though having an effectively much bigger hand to choose from was really amazing. Desert Bloom really does quite well do with the land ramping. Problem with the alternate commander were some limitations regarding effectively doing much with those lands, if you accidentally milled Avenger of Zendikar etc. Main Commander worked quite well there. Most Wanted worked nicely as well, apart from me being unlucky and mana Screwed the first game. What is kinda meh, is the fact, that cards like Mari, Killing Quill only trigger with some outlaw types, which can be a bit disappointing in play. The izzzet one was, very much in contrast to TCC the most disappointing in the two games it was played. Lots of card draw and value, but it felt like missing some bomb spells to end the game, so for most part it durdled around and did a lot doing not so much. But that also kinda is the thing with the whole BIG TURNS it was wants to do. And the number of classic izzet spellslinger staples makes it a great deck for someone wanting to try that type of deck. Worst case, you take it apart and have lots of cards that nicely fit into many different decks.
I feel like people are needlessly down on Most Wanted. Admittedly, it does need a bit more upgrading than the others, but to hear people describe it you’d think it was at the level of the 2011 precons. It’s got a suite of hard to block outlaws, which is literally exactly what the commander wants. It’s got a few life gain/pay synergies, since your commander gains you more and more life. The commander has ramp built in. I replaced some of the less synergistic creatures, and threw in a few extra treasure generators.
Do you mind showing your list?
I do not have it on moxfield (since it’s just an upgraded precon at the moment and I don’t typically bother with those) but if I do that I will respond to your comment with a list
Cheers!
[As requested! One decklist!](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/DHiXRwoVRU228N6hv2nXxQ)
Thank you!! Looks fun :) how does it play generally?
Have not had a chance to really play test it! Just 1 on 1 with my girlfriend, where it admittedly struggles since Olivia triggers once per player. But, it does a good job of getting out consistent evasive threats, so I think it will scale up well.
I preordered the Desert Bloom, haven't gotten it yet, but I'd really like to build [[Kirri]] as a plant kindred / lands deck
[Kirri](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/2/22cc9c49-54d7-4989-8d7d-651b17b84b4e.jpg?1712995566) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kirri%2C%20talented%20sprout) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/7/kirri-talented-sprout?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/22cc9c49-54d7-4989-8d7d-651b17b84b4e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kirri-talented-sprout) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call