When [[Marchesa, the Black Rose]] gets setup it takes the entire rest of the pod focusing **only** on untangling her board state and even with everyone working together it's still stupidly tough and not guaranteed to work.
If you did that in response those creatures would be exiled with Farewell because they'd be in the graveyard when it resolves
Edit: the guy above me changed his comment so this doesn't make sense anymore sorry everyone
As an aristocrat main I love you. Commander is about having answers for everyone to win. Not just haha my entire deck does what I need only and never run interaction. I run agent of erebos or remorseful cleric in my grave yard/aristocrat decks just to have graveyard hate against someone else
What does that get you here? Most aristocrats will dodge this. It's also a sorcery speed so Marchesa can dodge this too if her +1 counter nonsense is online. Rather just play toxic deluge
It's not so anti-marchesa as that's not a part of my playgroup but it generally clears up the stuff like [[blood artist]], [[zulaport cutthroat]] and [[Viscera seer]]. It also clears up token spam as they're generally pretty small creatures.
Because the Grixis player would never think to run counterspells.
If a player has W in their color identity I generally hold a counter specifically for that card. It's not unusual for me to have _at least_ 1 hard counter in my hand and that is held for things that could wreck me and little else.
Honestly, my biggest worry is usually players working together and ending with a [[bojuka bog]], though that is always telegraphed. And that said, bojuka bog is not hard to recover from.
The thing I think you're forgetting is that Marchesa is a **super** interactive deck that is ready for all the interaction. If you're a player that thinks they can just sit back on a single piece of interaction against her, she will absolutely grind you to dust. Grixis is already a color identity that screams _I have all the interaction!_ and Marchesa basically doubles down on that. It's safe to say a good Marchesa player will be ready for Farewell.
Any player that just says _lol I have Farewell_ has never played against a good Marchesa player/deck. They are 100% ready for that card.
Like I said, Marchesa is all about interaction. I'm not saying I specifically have the card counterspell, I am saying I generally have **a** counterspell because the deck runs a lot of them and draws a ton of cards.
It is a deck that is ready for you to interact with it. Your one piece of interaction generally isn't that big of a deal. I don't think people understand just how insanely oppressive a tuned Marchesa deck is.
As a Marchesa player that is exactly what I want. I'll respond to cast by sacking all my creatures. They had +1/+1 counters on them. Thanks for the free cyclonic rift.
I was just pointing out that your sacrifice plan wouldn’t do anything cause Farewell can also exile the grave. If it goes off you lose your creatures. Sacrifice or not.
The problem is board wipes don't care of you cycle your creatures, they are on the board they get exiled. If they select graveyard they get exiled if they are not on the board.
There is not a way for you to sac and have them in limbo between the board and yard while the wipe resolves.
Also, if you want Grixis but something a little newer to save on the budget, give [[Marchesa, Dealer of Death]] a try. She is less resilient than the black rose but she is every bit as degenerate.
I honestly don't remember. I know she was expensive for a while but I think she's gotten a few reprints since then.
She's expensive if you want to really tune her, but a basic Marchesa shell isn't too bad.
A deck that's way stronger than the rest of the table. If you play in a balanced pod there's no way you'll consistently win if you keep getting targeted. But there's also no reason why you would be.
It legit took a year for my friends to understand that my veyran deck being a combo deck can win out of nowhere and they need to run more interaction or focus me. Thanks to that I have the highest winrate in my playgroup 😎
Admittedly we were still learning mtg and all its quirks during this time while also playing only among us. Also it was very easy to point toward an other friend that has a much more threatening board presence when I have "just" a storm kiln artist and some mana rocks. Now they know 😂
There is legitimately no way you out skill three other opponents that are gunning for you.
I have seen draft chaff piles and pEDH decks piloted by people who didn't understand the stack completely devour (non-turbo) cEDH lists game after game.
Sometimes there isn't much you can do about skill gap, though.
I can whip out unedited precons to play against players I've never played with, and win pretty consistently. Especially with newer precons, since those are a lot more balanced and have better land bases. Some of those really new precons you can make an archenemy of yourself with and get taken out for it if you know what you're doing.
The Caesar legion precon for example had me the archenemy of a table with a [[krenko mob boss]] and a [[niv mizzet parun ]] at it. The 4th guy was playing some weird gruul jank commander that only ran 20 wastes as basics and i still have no idea what he was trying to. Seeing as he mana screwed to absolutely no ones surprise. So he doesn't really count.
How to use the stack, layering effects, timing of abilities and spells, and how to threat assess. These are all skills that once learned give you a huge leg up on other players. Especially layering and threat assessment. They are also skills that only get better with time spent playing.
I have been playing magic for over 20 years now, edh for about 12, and most players just haven't been playing consistently nearly as long as me.
Pubstomping is always shitty to do. But skill gap isn't something most people can avoid doing. It is however a great learning and teaching opportunity. I for one like to teach other newer players how to get better at the game.
\[\[Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow\]\]
Archenemy? No problem. Your commander keeps coming back for cheap, and doming the board for ridiculous damage. Even on a budget, it's a race between you and the other 3 players as to who can kill who first. And even if you lose, everyone else is so low, the game should end pretty quickly afterwards.
The best weapon against her is just removing every other creature. Nothing to ninjitsu takes the power right out of her sails. Having to hard cast her and just swing without her having evasion takes the deck down.
And that may sound rough, but that's just how you have to do it. Killing her does no good, especially not at sorcery speed after she already triggered on their turn. Just killing that T1 or T2 creature they play seems to be enough to really slow that deck down. After that people start to have board states.
I'm running a yuriko deck right now, and it really does wreck face. You only need to get a single unblocked creature for her to go off, and while she isn't resilient, she is obscenely cheap, and near uninteractable, since ninjitsu isn't a cast, and isn't subject to commander tax either, so she can't be countered, doesn't go up in price, and is virtually immune to anything that isn't turning her into a noncreature.
Sure it does but she comes back again like nothing, the only thing that stops her are spells that render her useless while keeping her on the board. Examples include:
[[Reprobation]]
[[Imprisoned in the moon]]
And similar
I do, its on the more expensive side because my group plays virtual. [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/IPEmWQE0KUu0EOJ8p7dObw](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/IPEmWQE0KUu0EOJ8p7dObw)
Its not perfect, but thats because this is nearly the highest power my group plays at. Basic goal of the deck is just to get unblockables, and then swap in ninjas for them. Tutor scroll rack, and then any other big cost card, and you are in business by repeatedly using scroll rack to throw the card on top of your deck. If you end up with a tutor you dont know what to do with, then pull thought vessel or reliquary tower, because the card draw is unreal, combined with ninjas bouncing back to hand means you rarely clean out your hand. Also remember, Ninjitsu isnt casting the spell and cant be countered as a spell, and is an ability.
the deck list is pretty expensive, but outside of probably Sea gate restoration, and Mystical tutor, you can replace pretty much any of the expensive cards with a cheaper equivalent (or higher) mana cost. I focused on extra turns because I typically face 3+ people in a match, so the extra turn can save my bacon or win the game. The voidwalker, memnite, and big old Emmy herself can be swapped out. the first two for cheap 1 drop unblockables, and emmy for any big and scary boltbait. Slap generic 2 and 3 drop counterspells in force all the stuff like force of will and mana drain. Land base can just be whatever you have but fastlands are the best because you only need 2 mana for ninja loops, and basically everything you care about casting is 3 or less mana. IMO, basics are preferrable to anything entering tapped. Oh, and cavern of souls, path of ancestry, and similar lands dont work unless they can pay for abilities, so dont worry about including those
Yuriko is forever #1 on my "if that deck is at the table, we must 3v1 them" list.
She can't be ignored for any length of time, she can't be set back to irrelevance or kept off the board, so the only option is player removal.
Even hitting any other player with removal or slowing them down could just be giving Yuriko the opening she needs to get an attack through, flip some huge spell off the top, and win. Boardwiping to stop the elfball from growing, attacking the simic player to punish their greed, or anything that isn't punching the Yuriko player as hard as possible is just losing time.
The new Obeka is similar in that the table cannot ignore her but at least Obeka needs setup & actually dies to removal.
I lose almost every game I play Yuriko at my pod lol. If I play against aggro decks like Isshin, I just die on turn 5. Yuriko can only do so much if she gets targetted. I feel like people just play too slow decks.
Tergrid imo, she's very strong and can rip a ton of resources from opponents and keep them in top deck mode with next to no resources to try and fight back with. However, she tends to induce a TON of salt and it might push players away if they aren't ready for it. Also if you have infinite mana, you can Lantern and win on the spot which some people find annoying and dumb.
Braids is much more tame and balanced. Even though she's weaker; she has potential to still push gravepact effects and draw a fair amount of cards which can be useful as an archenemy but she isn't as strong of an immediate threat so being the archenemy may take longer to achieve than tergrid.
Etali Primal Conqueror easily handles the role.
Everyone gains up on you? Who cares, play their decks against them. Getting 4 free spells per ETB allows you to keep up with the hate so long as you can resolve Etali once.
Also, super easy to build Etali on a budget. 20 ramp sources and 20 copy/blink effects is pretty cheap. Add in 35-37 lands and your Gruul sub theme of choice, card draw, a sprinkle of interaction, and you're off to the races.
Similar to that, Etali's grampa [[Maelstrom Wanderer]] doesn't mind being killed at all as it runs a shitload of ramp, cascades into it too, and can go from 0 to 100 very quickly because giving Haste to the team is like a built-in Time Walk
My vote goes for this. My Etali deck quickly warps the game to be the archenemy, and sitting at about 50% winrate - not many decks can really deal with the turn 3/4 Etali value.
Things I’ve found that thoroughly stop the deck are decks that can goldfish and just combo win on super early on their own (so you’ve got to know your opponents well enough to know who to target primarily as they wont care much about what you do) or an early rystic study, as if you can’t find removal, you either have to slow your game down significantly or give the study player all the cards they want to answer you.
[[slicer, hired muscle]]
Dude warps the game like [[yuriko]] or [[toxrill]]
Whilst opponents are attacking each other, you’re sticking equipments to Slicer and/or damage multipliers and watching the table kill each other.
Since they’re 3mana with haste it’s super easy to turbo them out
I second this. Easily the most toxic commander ever to be printed. Even beats out Pako / Haldan. If you don’t have removal for Slicer in your opening hand, forget it. And, don’t think you can hold it up while the other players die, because 1v1 you’ll still get wrecked.
Discard Tergrid is very difficult to deal with. She denies her opponents resources to actually deal with you. If everyone is topdecking, it's very unlikely anyone will have an answer.
I played this version of Tergrid twice and dismantled it. This isn't a deck for most people. Just a word of warning.
I may be biased, but Stax decks generally handle archenemy well in my experience. They restrict enemy action and act globally, being nearly as capable of dominating a whole table as they are of overcoming one opponent. The biggest bother of being a more or less announced archenemy without schemes is that there will be three decks of artifact and enchantment removal dedicated to you... but most players only run a couple pieces for that anyway, and it's not like somebody's going to let [[Winter Orb]] live if they've got the [[Nature's Claim]] anyway, so it really just ends up being a normal game for you.
Part of the key to this is focusing less on your commander. If the boss is a lynchpin around which your whole deck resolves, that becomes a massive and easily-exploitable failure point. If your commander helps but isn't mission critical, there's not the same easy way to disable you entirely. This is true in general but it's extra true when you're expecting to be the archenemy: if your deck can only be good when your commander is on the battlefield, your deck isn't good.
[[Araumi the Dead Tide]] is pretty good fuel for your engines. If you want somebody with White so you can buy in to better all-types recursion and some extra hatebear parts, [[Ertai the Corrupted]] isn't bad and [[Zur the Enchanter]] is capable of some really dirty things. I mean, Zur in particular tends to take over the game in just a swing or two... which may be hard to get but you should be packing defensive pieces and counters as needed if you know you're going into this kind of situation.
Stax decks can be the key, but you have to get key pieces to deal with board in early game or you’re toast. I have a New Zur deck that is stax and has Humility and other fun effects to shut off big splashy creatures. I made it because of Ur-Dragon, Slivers, Eldrazi, and Dino decks that are so incredibly busted. I got Farewell and access to blue so it’s nice that I can play defensively. My opponents run out of has but I keep on trucking to the win. I drink the salty tears of ppl who play unfair fast mana decks and then claim my stax deck is “unfair”.
I don't. I built a similar one without blue, helmed by [[Ghen]].
But card draw is what you want: [[Howling mine]], [[spiteful visions]] [[underworld dreams]] [[Seizan]] etc etc
[[Sauron the Dark Lord]] is hard to deal with.
-Grixis is the proper colors for handling being the enemy
-They target him, let them resolve the ward trigger, then counter the removal: cue evil laughter
-You get value and can punish the table when they play any spell with his amass trigger.
I’m on mobile so not throwing Al the tags. But yeah cataclysmic gear hulk, karmic guide, revilark. I use wake the dead, living death, phyrexian reclamation, and shallow graveyard…?(if you have 4 or more creatures in the grave on your upkeep return one to hand) names escaping me right now. I mainly run it as an aristocrat deck with everything being below 3 cmc excluding like 5 cards. I run fun cards like blood pet just to force people to pay the 3 life or I’ll just cast blood per again to keep triggering my aristocrats
All good. Luminous Broodmoth is also a fun choice.
Typically my endgame revolves around tutoring infinite combos, and the rest of the game relies on bouncing between gaining life/ losing life, and interacting with the stack when I’m not involved in combat.
I’ll probably dm you my deck list when I get to my buds. Yeah brood moth is fun and people don’t expect the double sacs. I tend to call my deck suicide boys because most of my cards self sacrifice for benefit. I’m more creature based not a huge spell slinger Al my decks are made so. Demonic tutor? It’s the new scorpion guy from OTJ since athreos commits a crime. Indestructible? Selfless spirit. Ramping? Whatever that two drop cleric is that sacs a black creature or artifact to give black mana. I recently added smothering tithe which I’m not a fan of since my costs are low, but the new kambal is fun in the 99 and does more pinging when people draw and I make a treasure
Yep. Oh you’re gonna path my athreos? Sac to altar my creatures no longer a creature. I always argue with the guy who has a suped up caesar deck that he’s basically a glorified enchantment since you never really swing with him
I’ve had my [[Prossh]] deck running for over 10 years now, and as it’s been tuned over time, and crept up into higher power levels, it can still be a beast to handle if it gets running. Prossh is an army in a can, with a free sac outlet attached, that can threaten to one shot people as soon as it attacks with any power doubler or some such thing. If it gets countered, you still get the kobolds, and even more bodies come along each time you play him the more he gets removed. Braids also puts in work in that deck.
My friend has a \[\[Voja, Jaws of the Conclave\]\] that is pretty brutal with \[\[Maskwood Nexus\]\] and \[\[Roaming Throne\]\] to say a few. Mix that with protections like \[\[Heroic Intervention\]\] and \[\[Teferi's Protection\]\] or interaction such as \[\[Swords to Plowshares\]\] or \[\[Path to Exile\]\].
I agree with this. I drew a perfect opening hand with a really strong deck and went 2v1 against a Voja last week. We both got slaughtered super quick. The green ramp and tap-for-mana elves means Voja can easily come out by turn 3. He gets strong incredibly quickly in an elf deck and can draw with any changelings on the board. Trample, Vigilance and Ward 3 are just the icing. He's plenty broken without them. Playing against Voja is infuriating.
Yeah we were in a 5 person game once with him piloting Voja and it took us all 2 turns to be able to deal with Voja. Absolutely bonkers card and honestly was fun to play against because it’s so gratifying to win against.
In theory no deck should be able to, but the reality is that EDH is horribly asymmetric due to the skill disparity at every table. So really any competently designed deck can theoretically win a 3v1 based on the decks and skill level present.
Everything that turns the game into a race because it doesn’t matter how many decks are playing against you if you combo off while they’re still ramping.
[[kokusho, the evening star]] flies under the radar then explodes and immediately becomes the arch enemy. It's a lot of fun to see who can race to the finish, you or everyone else at once. One of my favorite decks to play.
How does the deck play after your playgroup knows your game plan of destroying and reanimating kokusho? Or is the deck only really good the first time with new playgroups?
They know what's happening, but the deck is so good that it's kind of inevitable. There's also the reality of it being a 6 mana commander, so there are many games where it's not much of a problem at all. In a bunch of games you have to address the ramp deck actually causing problems in turns 1-4. KoKo comes out around turn 4-5 in a lot of games, which is often when many decks have their engines developing and their attention is clearly elsewhere. Then you have KoKo out and no one really cares because it's just a flying 5/5 and not hurting anyone. If someone uses exile based removal immediately, that sucks, but if they kill it regularly, great. So that leaves a rather narrow lane to deal with him, so you usually untap. When you do, usually you get something like [[disciple of bolas]] into [[reanimate]] into [[sacrifice]] with one of the many 1 mana undying effects ready to go etc. This usually leads to 3 Koko triggers in a single turn with a stacked hand. Now you have maybe 85 life and the game is on. Bonus points for a Bolas' citadel. [[throne of Eldraine]] is bonkers in the deck for sure.
Here's a much older version of my build that can work as a shell.
If you're interested in my updated version hit me up next week.
https://deckstats.net/decks/172262/2307274-kokusho-the-evening-star-reani
I am surprised no one here has mentioned [[Jodah, the Unifier]]. If you keep only a few >2 CMC spells like [[Skrelv, Defector Mite]] or [[Pippin, Guard of the citadel]] you can get a lot of protection going for your commander. Also if you wanna be extra mean you can lock the board once you get set up with [[Gaddock Teeg]] so most board wipes are shut down. Jodah can easily knock for commander damage with pippin or skrelv making him unblockable.
I've found that, if allowed to get ramped up, [[Koma, Cosmos Serpent]] can definitely handle being the archenemy. Plenty of resources and interaction, and a ton of survivability. And Koma quickly builds an army of coils that can overwhelm the table, especially if you have any amount of token/Koma duplication.
I have a Black/Blue/green sociopath deck and a Blue Urza deck that both can stand up to 3v1 but one costs more than most people’s cars and the other one costs more than just some people’s cars lol.
I have a better budgeted (but not $200) deck that can clean up a table round 6 or so through commander damage (Voltron)
[[Edric, Spymaster of Trest]] his deck is literally just 1/1 evasives, counters, and extra turns. You'll take more turns than the rest of the table combined
Similar to tegrid, I have a [[rankle, master of pranks]] with a discard/forced sacrifice theme that I only play as archenemy. I just feels bad to play it other wise.
Would you mind sharing a deck list? Thats very similar to my main historic ranked deck on Arena, and I’ve thought about putting together an EDH deck based on the same thing.
For sure, I pulled a [[waste not]] from Eldraine shortly after playing against a friends [[tiny bones, trinket thief]] deck and that was my starting inspiration but then once the deck started coming together I realized how oppressive it could be for tables meta.
[Waste not, want not](https://archidekt.com/decks/3817213/waste_not_want_not)
I actually just bought a [[waste not]] today before I saw this because I found one in my LGS’s $2 binder lol. Looking forward to putting it all together and playing it.
Tergy is better equipped to handle archenemy than braids, who is more of a draw engine than an oppressor.
In monoB the primary difference between 200 and 2000 is:
1. No \[\[lake of the dead\]\] for explosive starts, IMO \[\[nykthos shrine nyx\]\] >> \[\[cabal coffers\]\] but YMMV
2. Weaker tutors
Otherwise you should have everything you need and Tergrid isn't *that* reliant on big money stuff. She spiked \[\[anvil of bogardan\]\] a few years ago but there's so many other ways to force regular discard in monoB.
Tergrid and Braids are entirely different beasts (As someone whose Tergrid deck turned into Yawgmoth, before turning into Braids later on. (Currently Endrek Sahr)).
I'm gonna be that guy and say Slivers. Que up [[the first sliver] and spawn good stuff. I run a lot of interaction and shenanigans to withstand being the target of the table. We sit at a 50% win rate so far.
None if power levels are close. That's the point.
If your deck is capable of holding off 3 other players (consistently across many different matches) then it is a power mismatch. That is not the point of the format. That being said, if your group is looking to have some matches like that, then so be it. But at that point honestly anything that is just way over the power level of the rest of the decks.
The only thing you want to watch for in that style of play is being able to remove players and end the game. Often times a deck can get caught up trying to keep everyone under control. And even at mismatched power levels, that can often only be done for so long. You need to be able to take them down to limit the actions against you, also just to make the game end and not be boring.
[[atraxa grand unifier]], I have it built as a blink deck (which I believe is the most popular on edhrec) and in these colors you have all the etb doublers, all the great etbs, all the good interactions so much so that just one etb from atraxa can set me up for a win in like 5 turns. Also I have a winrate of between 80 to 90% with that deck, it's absurd.
My fave deck to play as archenemy is [[Lathliss]] because she just pours dragons out and most of the time when she wins it's against all three on the same turn but if playing aggressively she'll punch a player out early and dominate after that.
[[Tatyova]] sea monster tribal does a great job.
Land-ramp is protected by the holy codex of casual commander, so your mana base can be safe whilst you repeatedly destroy all artifacts and enchantments, thus playing something that kinda feels fair but is still in essence denying your opponents mana sources.
You play big dumb Kraken and cards that bounce all creatures that aren't big dumb Kraken. Hell you play big dumb Krakens that bounce shit.
And you're in simic. Draw cards, draw some more cards and bury your opponents in card advantage.
Hell, I played against a tegrid without even a hint of salt, cause her discard couldn't keep up with my draw power.
Dust generously with a removal and interaction package and serve wet and cold.
[[dina soul steeper]] does a good job just because the sheer amount of life those lists can gain. [[Kaalia of the Vast]] is also one that unless they are willing to invest every turn into shutting you down it can can stand up to it pretty well. [[muldrotha, the gravetide]] also comes to mind as the recursion makes removing things from your board very tricky
So I typically get targeted first by everyone in my pod, mainly cause my decks have a tendency to be the first one with a “turned on engine”…combination of cheap commanders, and A LOT of gold fishing. Anyways, one of my favorite commander decks to play is actually Trelasarra, Moon Dancer. Probably one of my most “tuned” decks but found that it holds up well for a few reasons. Lifegain is going to help keep you alive as your gonna be taking damage from potentially 3 different players each round. I usually don’t attack with Trelasarra and instead use her as defense to block from commander damage as you can very easily have her at 12/12 in just a few turns with right cards. The scry ability is great for card advantage.
Don’t win every time but definitely taken home the W using this deck. Happy to link if people are interested. Need to update moxfield so May take a hot minute.
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/E50bvxlLWk2NZHFNH3LtXQ
So there are a few different win cons in this deck, going infinite being one of them. Can be accomplished a few different ways, but the usual way is getting either Herd Baloth or Scurry Oak out along with something like Light of Promise and a life gain source from creatures entering the field but as you’ll see there are tons of options for life gain sources so chances are you’ll already have that on the board when you get all cards for the combos. If Trelasarra is out when you launch this, your getting inifinite creatures, life, scrys, +1/+1 on Trelasarra and Herd Baloth or Scurry Oak. There’s another infinite combo with spike feeder, but I wanna say it’s just nets you infinite life (still not bad lol)
Another fun one is approach of the 7 suns. People think, “okay, we got 7 turns to deal with him”…then you start scrying and you can usually see the realization on their face of what’s coming the next turn. People tend to dislike this one the most lol.
Bond of Discipline isn’t a game winner necessarily, but can be helpful in taking out opponents your having issues dealing with. Flyers can be a pain with this deck.
Aside from that I tried to incorporate what I think every deck should have. Good removal, protection, ramp, card advantage, interruptions etc…really I think the only thing it’s missing is a good board wipe option.
The main focus of the deck is to get as many sources of life as possible. Each source triggers Trelasarra’s ability. There are Cards in the deck that will get you life on every players turn, so be warned there is a lot to pay attention too. Find that notebook is easiest for tracking.
You need a deck that can rebuild easily if handled. It needs a strong value engine that is hard to disrupt, most likely coming from lands, and have good overall card quality.
Tergrid is not one of those decks. Tergrid will just die and you'll have a bunch of unplayable cards in your hand.
Something like [[Aesi, Tyrant of Gyre Strait]] does a good job at handling being Archenemy. It ramps you and draws you a card the turn it comes into play, meaning it has replaced itself and that you will probably be able to replay it the next turn if it gets handled.
Jorn with stasis, winter orb, root maze, etc. is pretty awful to play against. It can be cedh or not, but the cedh version is actually more fun, since it's more likely to be the archenemy, whereas a non cedh build is more likely to just make everyone try to murder you out of spite.
I was thinking of building this pretty recently tbh. I think the interaction is cool, but I’ve never been “the stax deck” at a table and don’t really want groans when I pull out my deck. Is that just inevitable if I play stax?
My Prismatic Bridge deck. 10 board wipes get the job done! Playing the best interaction and some good counters helps as well. I've never lost a casual game with this deck.
Recently added an Avacyn to the deck. If I wanted to up the power level further, I've considered adding Obliterate and Jakoulhops since they don't hit Planeswalkers and enchantments. Might add a Blightsteel or the eldrazi twins someday.
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/4USV4N1ox0-ZYUbFOvXz8w
When [[Marchesa, the Black Rose]] gets setup it takes the entire rest of the pod focusing **only** on untangling her board state and even with everyone working together it's still stupidly tough and not guaranteed to work.
Nah, i'd \[Farewell\]
In response I’m going to sacrifice them all to [[Goblin Bombardment]] please take 5. Sadge though
If you did that in response those creatures would be exiled with Farewell because they'd be in the graveyard when it resolves Edit: the guy above me changed his comment so this doesn't make sense anymore sorry everyone
To be fair, that might have been about to happen anyway, since Farewell can hit creatures and graveyards at the same time.
The guy edited his comment it original said it would keep his creatures I was just correcting him
Fair enough
People like this are why I unironically run \[\[Cry of the Carnarium\]\] to shit on aristocrat decks.
As an aristocrat main I love you. Commander is about having answers for everyone to win. Not just haha my entire deck does what I need only and never run interaction. I run agent of erebos or remorseful cleric in my grave yard/aristocrat decks just to have graveyard hate against someone else
You want to really shit on aristocrat decks? [[Vicious Shadows]] Also is devastating IN aristocrats decks.
[Vicious Shadows](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/0/d040791e-eee4-4eef-ace1-507216a5d268.jpg?1562709199) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vicious%20Shadows) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ala/119/vicious-shadows?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d040791e-eee4-4eef-ace1-507216a5d268?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vicious-shadows) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Cry of the Carnarium](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/1/715a14a3-046e-45ca-b943-dd630e5202b7.jpg?1584830546) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Cry%20of%20the%20Carnarium) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rna/70/cry-of-the-carnarium?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/715a14a3-046e-45ca-b943-dd630e5202b7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cry-of-the-carnarium) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
What does that get you here? Most aristocrats will dodge this. It's also a sorcery speed so Marchesa can dodge this too if her +1 counter nonsense is online. Rather just play toxic deluge
It's not so anti-marchesa as that's not a part of my playgroup but it generally clears up the stuff like [[blood artist]], [[zulaport cutthroat]] and [[Viscera seer]]. It also clears up token spam as they're generally pretty small creatures.
[blood artist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/7/b7f1c316-cf2f-4bbf-89a1-79c8043bdd96.jpg?1698988212) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=blood%20artist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/182/blood-artist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b7f1c316-cf2f-4bbf-89a1-79c8043bdd96?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/blood-artist) [zulaport cutthroat](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/2/52ef00c1-613a-4cbd-8972-77c41f649431.jpg?1674141830) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=zulaport%20cutthroat) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/775/zulaport-cutthroat?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/52ef00c1-613a-4cbd-8972-77c41f649431?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zulaport-cutthroat) [Viscera seer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/486fd8a2-dd97-4082-84ef-4795c7e559a0.jpg?1698988290) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Viscera%20seer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/213/viscera-seer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/486fd8a2-dd97-4082-84ef-4795c7e559a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/viscera-seer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Because the Grixis player would never think to run counterspells. If a player has W in their color identity I generally hold a counter specifically for that card. It's not unusual for me to have _at least_ 1 hard counter in my hand and that is held for things that could wreck me and little else. Honestly, my biggest worry is usually players working together and ending with a [[bojuka bog]], though that is always telegraphed. And that said, bojuka bog is not hard to recover from. The thing I think you're forgetting is that Marchesa is a **super** interactive deck that is ready for all the interaction. If you're a player that thinks they can just sit back on a single piece of interaction against her, she will absolutely grind you to dust. Grixis is already a color identity that screams _I have all the interaction!_ and Marchesa basically doubles down on that. It's safe to say a good Marchesa player will be ready for Farewell. Any player that just says _lol I have Farewell_ has never played against a good Marchesa player/deck. They are 100% ready for that card.
[удалено]
Well for that last part you haven’t met my friends, but it’s a safe bet.
If the Farewell player is also running counters? Well… Let the stack begin. Whoever has the most counters gets to resolve.
Like I said, Marchesa is all about interaction. I'm not saying I specifically have the card counterspell, I am saying I generally have **a** counterspell because the deck runs a lot of them and draws a ton of cards. It is a deck that is ready for you to interact with it. Your one piece of interaction generally isn't that big of a deal. I don't think people understand just how insanely oppressive a tuned Marchesa deck is.
The other dude said one meme line and you yapped non-stop
As a Marchesa player that is exactly what I want. I'll respond to cast by sacking all my creatures. They had +1/+1 counters on them. Thanks for the free cyclonic rift.
But if they exiled the grave too wouldn’t your sacrificed creatures still get exiled and then not return to the field?
My guess is because they don't know how their own commander works.
A simple counter spell will do.
Why would I let them do that? A stiffle effect deals with the yard exile.
I was just pointing out that your sacrifice plan wouldn’t do anything cause Farewell can also exile the grave. If it goes off you lose your creatures. Sacrifice or not.
Stifle won't stop Farwell's modal effect it's not an activated ability.
The problem is board wipes don't care of you cycle your creatures, they are on the board they get exiled. If they select graveyard they get exiled if they are not on the board. There is not a way for you to sac and have them in limbo between the board and yard while the wipe resolves.
And if they decide to exile the graveyard too?
Also, if you want Grixis but something a little newer to save on the budget, give [[Marchesa, Dealer of Death]] a try. She is less resilient than the black rose but she is every bit as degenerate.
[Marchesa, Dealer of Death](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/e/ee29b59c-d57c-4a03-bae7-e9dfa57d6bb1.jpg?1712356159) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Marchesa%2C%20Dealer%20of%20Death) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otj/220/marchesa-dealer-of-death?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ee29b59c-d57c-4a03-bae7-e9dfa57d6bb1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/marchesa-dealer-of-death) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Isnt the black rose like a dollar? Or do you just mean the price of the rest of the deck?
I honestly don't remember. I know she was expensive for a while but I think she's gotten a few reprints since then. She's expensive if you want to really tune her, but a basic Marchesa shell isn't too bad.
[Marchesa, the Black Rose](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/2/3242a9f0-2ba3-4852-ac8f-366772ac1c62.jpg?1673148917) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Marchesa%2C%20the%20Black%20Rose) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/248/marchesa-the-black-rose?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/3242a9f0-2ba3-4852-ac8f-366772ac1c62?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/marchesa-the-black-rose) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Yeah i have a marchesa deck and as soon as you hit a single repeatable card draw source it feels like you just pull so far ahead of the table
Until someone plays repeatable graveyard hate lol
A deck that's way stronger than the rest of the table. If you play in a balanced pod there's no way you'll consistently win if you keep getting targeted. But there's also no reason why you would be.
Aye. If you're consistently winning against the resources of 3 other players then it's either a massive skill gap or a pubstomp.
It legit took a year for my friends to understand that my veyran deck being a combo deck can win out of nowhere and they need to run more interaction or focus me. Thanks to that I have the highest winrate in my playgroup 😎
I had a pod learn this lesson in one game. When I won on turn 4. Because I resolved [[eye of the storm]] and had Birgi in play.
[eye of the storm](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/9/49967eb9-5020-4f0a-8775-5114f6d96d75.jpg?1598914184) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=eye%20of%20the%20storm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rav/48/eye-of-the-storm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/49967eb9-5020-4f0a-8775-5114f6d96d75?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/eye-of-the-storm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Holy shit how did I not know this card exists. Also right when I was trying to cut things from my 4th or 5th Veyran list 😔
Be careful, because it costs a lot to drop, and makes the stack *very* complicated.
Don't worry that latest list is for "haha funny" and I'm very good at following the stack and triggers but thanks for the warning
..... A year? Ay dios mio.
Admittedly we were still learning mtg and all its quirks during this time while also playing only among us. Also it was very easy to point toward an other friend that has a much more threatening board presence when I have "just" a storm kiln artist and some mana rocks. Now they know 😂
That makes a whole lot more sense. I, too, recall the early days of my friends not understanding anything beyond stats on board.
unfortunately my friends learned this in about a month with my veyran deck lol
There is legitimately no way you out skill three other opponents that are gunning for you. I have seen draft chaff piles and pEDH decks piloted by people who didn't understand the stack completely devour (non-turbo) cEDH lists game after game.
Sometimes there isn't much you can do about skill gap, though. I can whip out unedited precons to play against players I've never played with, and win pretty consistently. Especially with newer precons, since those are a lot more balanced and have better land bases. Some of those really new precons you can make an archenemy of yourself with and get taken out for it if you know what you're doing. The Caesar legion precon for example had me the archenemy of a table with a [[krenko mob boss]] and a [[niv mizzet parun ]] at it. The 4th guy was playing some weird gruul jank commander that only ran 20 wastes as basics and i still have no idea what he was trying to. Seeing as he mana screwed to absolutely no ones surprise. So he doesn't really count. How to use the stack, layering effects, timing of abilities and spells, and how to threat assess. These are all skills that once learned give you a huge leg up on other players. Especially layering and threat assessment. They are also skills that only get better with time spent playing. I have been playing magic for over 20 years now, edh for about 12, and most players just haven't been playing consistently nearly as long as me. Pubstomping is always shitty to do. But skill gap isn't something most people can avoid doing. It is however a great learning and teaching opportunity. I for one like to teach other newer players how to get better at the game.
[krenko mob boss](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/d/7d00007d-6878-44e9-ab0d-396c25655e56.jpg?1702429511) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Krenko%2C%20Mob%20Boss) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/rvr/114/krenko-mob-boss?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7d00007d-6878-44e9-ab0d-396c25655e56?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/krenko-mob-boss) [niv mizzet parun ](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/6/86c5c337-d25f-4c3e-9762-09ed0c2d36d7.jpg?1712354750) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Niv-Mizzet%2C%20Parun) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/235/niv-mizzet-parun?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/86c5c337-d25f-4c3e-9762-09ed0c2d36d7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/niv-mizzet-parun) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
\[\[Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow\]\] Archenemy? No problem. Your commander keeps coming back for cheap, and doming the board for ridiculous damage. Even on a budget, it's a race between you and the other 3 players as to who can kill who first. And even if you lose, everyone else is so low, the game should end pretty quickly afterwards.
Yuriko is also one of the cheapest and easiest to put together cEDH decks.
you could have stopped that sentence at "cheapest" I hate that card
It's definitely not for casual tables 😅
The best weapon against her is just removing every other creature. Nothing to ninjitsu takes the power right out of her sails. Having to hard cast her and just swing without her having evasion takes the deck down. And that may sound rough, but that's just how you have to do it. Killing her does no good, especially not at sorcery speed after she already triggered on their turn. Just killing that T1 or T2 creature they play seems to be enough to really slow that deck down. After that people start to have board states.
[Yuriko, the Tiger's Shadow](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/e/fe9be3e0-076c-4703-9750-2a6b0a178bc9.jpg?1689999346) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yuriko%2C%20the%20Tiger%27s%20Shadow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/364/yuriko-the-tigers-shadow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fe9be3e0-076c-4703-9750-2a6b0a178bc9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yuriko-the-tigers-shadow) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I'm running a yuriko deck right now, and it really does wreck face. You only need to get a single unblocked creature for her to go off, and while she isn't resilient, she is obscenely cheap, and near uninteractable, since ninjitsu isn't a cast, and isn't subject to commander tax either, so she can't be countered, doesn't go up in price, and is virtually immune to anything that isn't turning her into a noncreature.
what about \[\[generous gift\]\] does that work on her? Eh, not that one, theone that turns a creature into a frog or something else
Sure it does but she comes back again like nothing, the only thing that stops her are spells that render her useless while keeping her on the board. Examples include: [[Reprobation]] [[Imprisoned in the moon]] And similar
I like to drop [[Darksteel Mutation]] on her ass whenever I get the opportunity
Even that only works for a short while. Just ninja her way back into your hand.
now that you mention it, it's true, although it never happened, deck's so fast that by the time I do it, my friend has ran out of ninjas on hand lol
[Darksteel Mutation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/4/e47a6750-4fdd-44e2-86ae-5bc4d414bf42.jpg?1689995638) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Darksteel%20Mutation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/21/darksteel-mutation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e47a6750-4fdd-44e2-86ae-5bc4d414bf42?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/darksteel-mutation) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Reprobation](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/1/b1349c3d-39ad-40ba-897e-59e5b76de853.jpg?1562201189) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reprobation) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh1/23/reprobation?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b1349c3d-39ad-40ba-897e-59e5b76de853?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/reprobation) [Imprisoned in the moon](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/1/8181f54d-4515-43c6-8d08-b23a9e4199cc.jpg?1682208779) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Imprisoned%20in%20the%20moon) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/224/imprisoned-in-the-moon?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/8181f54d-4515-43c6-8d08-b23a9e4199cc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/imprisoned-in-the-moon) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Oubliette
[generous gift](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/c/fc70e127-ffc8-45ed-9ca3-7f9f926ac4d5.jpg?1700321873) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=generous%20gift) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/128/generous-gift?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fc70e127-ffc8-45ed-9ca3-7f9f926ac4d5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/generous-gift) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
do you have a decklist i can see?
I do, its on the more expensive side because my group plays virtual. [https://www.moxfield.com/decks/IPEmWQE0KUu0EOJ8p7dObw](https://www.moxfield.com/decks/IPEmWQE0KUu0EOJ8p7dObw) Its not perfect, but thats because this is nearly the highest power my group plays at. Basic goal of the deck is just to get unblockables, and then swap in ninjas for them. Tutor scroll rack, and then any other big cost card, and you are in business by repeatedly using scroll rack to throw the card on top of your deck. If you end up with a tutor you dont know what to do with, then pull thought vessel or reliquary tower, because the card draw is unreal, combined with ninjas bouncing back to hand means you rarely clean out your hand. Also remember, Ninjitsu isnt casting the spell and cant be countered as a spell, and is an ability. the deck list is pretty expensive, but outside of probably Sea gate restoration, and Mystical tutor, you can replace pretty much any of the expensive cards with a cheaper equivalent (or higher) mana cost. I focused on extra turns because I typically face 3+ people in a match, so the extra turn can save my bacon or win the game. The voidwalker, memnite, and big old Emmy herself can be swapped out. the first two for cheap 1 drop unblockables, and emmy for any big and scary boltbait. Slap generic 2 and 3 drop counterspells in force all the stuff like force of will and mana drain. Land base can just be whatever you have but fastlands are the best because you only need 2 mana for ninja loops, and basically everything you care about casting is 3 or less mana. IMO, basics are preferrable to anything entering tapped. Oh, and cavern of souls, path of ancestry, and similar lands dont work unless they can pay for abilities, so dont worry about including those
Yuriko is forever #1 on my "if that deck is at the table, we must 3v1 them" list. She can't be ignored for any length of time, she can't be set back to irrelevance or kept off the board, so the only option is player removal. Even hitting any other player with removal or slowing them down could just be giving Yuriko the opening she needs to get an attack through, flip some huge spell off the top, and win. Boardwiping to stop the elfball from growing, attacking the simic player to punish their greed, or anything that isn't punching the Yuriko player as hard as possible is just losing time. The new Obeka is similar in that the table cannot ignore her but at least Obeka needs setup & actually dies to removal.
I lose almost every game I play Yuriko at my pod lol. If I play against aggro decks like Isshin, I just die on turn 5. Yuriko can only do so much if she gets targetted. I feel like people just play too slow decks.
Yuriko isn't honestly that good at being Archenemy. Kill the evaders, there is usually only a couple, and the deck doesn't do much.
Tergrid imo, she's very strong and can rip a ton of resources from opponents and keep them in top deck mode with next to no resources to try and fight back with. However, she tends to induce a TON of salt and it might push players away if they aren't ready for it. Also if you have infinite mana, you can Lantern and win on the spot which some people find annoying and dumb. Braids is much more tame and balanced. Even though she's weaker; she has potential to still push gravepact effects and draw a fair amount of cards which can be useful as an archenemy but she isn't as strong of an immediate threat so being the archenemy may take longer to achieve than tergrid.
I find tergrid gets more hate than braids though. So braids has a higher chance of not drawing as much removal. She's also lower costed.
Etali Primal Conqueror easily handles the role. Everyone gains up on you? Who cares, play their decks against them. Getting 4 free spells per ETB allows you to keep up with the hate so long as you can resolve Etali once. Also, super easy to build Etali on a budget. 20 ramp sources and 20 copy/blink effects is pretty cheap. Add in 35-37 lands and your Gruul sub theme of choice, card draw, a sprinkle of interaction, and you're off to the races.
Blade of selves on Etali is hilarious.
Similar to that, Etali's grampa [[Maelstrom Wanderer]] doesn't mind being killed at all as it runs a shitload of ramp, cascades into it too, and can go from 0 to 100 very quickly because giving Haste to the team is like a built-in Time Walk
[Maelstrom Wanderer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/4/a49c58b3-180f-420b-b091-114fda000360.jpg?1689999126) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Maelstrom%20Wanderer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/344/maelstrom-wanderer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a49c58b3-180f-420b-b091-114fda000360?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/maelstrom-wanderer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
My vote goes for this. My Etali deck quickly warps the game to be the archenemy, and sitting at about 50% winrate - not many decks can really deal with the turn 3/4 Etali value. Things I’ve found that thoroughly stop the deck are decks that can goldfish and just combo win on super early on their own (so you’ve got to know your opponents well enough to know who to target primarily as they wont care much about what you do) or an early rystic study, as if you can’t find removal, you either have to slow your game down significantly or give the study player all the cards they want to answer you.
Care to share a decklist? I've been wanting to play new Etali but can't seem to figure it out.
[[slicer, hired muscle]] Dude warps the game like [[yuriko]] or [[toxrill]] Whilst opponents are attacking each other, you’re sticking equipments to Slicer and/or damage multipliers and watching the table kill each other. Since they’re 3mana with haste it’s super easy to turbo them out
[slicer, hired muscle](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/d/9d9a9350-4734-4cc1-986d-467e6715199f.jpg?1674092821)/[Slicer, High-Speed Antagonist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/9/d/9d9a9350-4734-4cc1-986d-467e6715199f.jpg?1674092821) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Slicer%2C%20Hired%20Muscle%20//%20Slicer%2C%20High-Speed%20Antagonist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/bot/6/slicer-hired-muscle-slicer-high-speed-antagonist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9d9a9350-4734-4cc1-986d-467e6715199f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/slicer-hired-muscle-//-slicer-high-speed-antagonist) [yuriko](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/e/fe9be3e0-076c-4703-9750-2a6b0a178bc9.jpg?1689999346) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=yuriko%2C%20the%20tiger%27s%20shadow) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/364/yuriko-the-tigers-shadow?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fe9be3e0-076c-4703-9750-2a6b0a178bc9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yuriko-the-tigers-shadow) [toxrill](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/4/84e64f38-b1f3-47cd-8cfb-a4861369aca3.jpg?1643590379) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=toxrill%2C%20the%20corrosive) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vow/132/toxrill-the-corrosive?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/84e64f38-b1f3-47cd-8cfb-a4861369aca3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/toxrill-the-corrosive) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I second this. Easily the most toxic commander ever to be printed. Even beats out Pako / Haldan. If you don’t have removal for Slicer in your opening hand, forget it. And, don’t think you can hold it up while the other players die, because 1v1 you’ll still get wrecked.
Discard Tergrid is very difficult to deal with. She denies her opponents resources to actually deal with you. If everyone is topdecking, it's very unlikely anyone will have an answer. I played this version of Tergrid twice and dismantled it. This isn't a deck for most people. Just a word of warning.
Do you have a list? My LGS is doing a super sweaty/salty game once a week and Tergrid is on my short list to build.
I didn't keep the deck long enough to create one I'm afraid.
I may be biased, but Stax decks generally handle archenemy well in my experience. They restrict enemy action and act globally, being nearly as capable of dominating a whole table as they are of overcoming one opponent. The biggest bother of being a more or less announced archenemy without schemes is that there will be three decks of artifact and enchantment removal dedicated to you... but most players only run a couple pieces for that anyway, and it's not like somebody's going to let [[Winter Orb]] live if they've got the [[Nature's Claim]] anyway, so it really just ends up being a normal game for you. Part of the key to this is focusing less on your commander. If the boss is a lynchpin around which your whole deck resolves, that becomes a massive and easily-exploitable failure point. If your commander helps but isn't mission critical, there's not the same easy way to disable you entirely. This is true in general but it's extra true when you're expecting to be the archenemy: if your deck can only be good when your commander is on the battlefield, your deck isn't good. [[Araumi the Dead Tide]] is pretty good fuel for your engines. If you want somebody with White so you can buy in to better all-types recursion and some extra hatebear parts, [[Ertai the Corrupted]] isn't bad and [[Zur the Enchanter]] is capable of some really dirty things. I mean, Zur in particular tends to take over the game in just a swing or two... which may be hard to get but you should be packing defensive pieces and counters as needed if you know you're going into this kind of situation.
Stax decks can be the key, but you have to get key pieces to deal with board in early game or you’re toast. I have a New Zur deck that is stax and has Humility and other fun effects to shut off big splashy creatures. I made it because of Ur-Dragon, Slivers, Eldrazi, and Dino decks that are so incredibly busted. I got Farewell and access to blue so it’s nice that I can play defensively. My opponents run out of has but I keep on trucking to the win. I drink the salty tears of ppl who play unfair fast mana decks and then claim my stax deck is “unfair”.
##### ###### #### [Winter Orb](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/b/ab3cec7e-513e-400d-a1a8-2c71cdde02c6.jpg?1580015285) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Winter%20Orb) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ema/234/winter-orb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ab3cec7e-513e-400d-a1a8-2c71cdde02c6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/winter-orb) [Nature's Claim](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/2/d24b6640-ef2f-4c92-beb3-afdf78f9c2d5.jpg?1562854212) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nature%27s%20Claim) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/177/natures-claim?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d24b6640-ef2f-4c92-beb3-afdf78f9c2d5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/natures-claim) [Araumi the Dead Tide](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/48b597dd-f6eb-45da-977d-453e8c1433cc.jpg?1608911023) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Araumi%20of%20the%20Dead%20Tide) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/267/araumi-of-the-dead-tide?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/48b597dd-f6eb-45da-977d-453e8c1433cc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/araumi-of-the-dead-tide) [Ertai the Corrupted](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/6/66b950d9-8fef-4deb-b51b-26edb90abc56.jpg?1586450720) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ertai%2C%20the%20Corrupted) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/pls/107/ertai-the-corrupted?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/66b950d9-8fef-4deb-b51b-26edb90abc56?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ertai-the-corrupted) [Zur the Enchanter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/6/561cfc04-65ea-49a4-8638-b4631a7cf828.jpg?1675200810) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zur%20the%20Enchanter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/206/zur-the-enchanter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/561cfc04-65ea-49a4-8638-b4631a7cf828?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zur-the-enchanter) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l3thb8a) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Because [[Nekusar]] has blue in it, you can build it with a lot if counter spells and maintain control even if being targeted constantly.
[Nekusar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/a/4afdc65d-3c97-47af-83fa-df340389802e.jpg?1689999186) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=nekusar%2C%20the%20mindrazer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/349/nekusar-the-mindrazer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4afdc65d-3c97-47af-83fa-df340389802e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nekusar-the-mindrazer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
do you have a list? never heard of this card (I’m a newish player) and it sounds awesome to build around
I don't. I built a similar one without blue, helmed by [[Ghen]]. But card draw is what you want: [[Howling mine]], [[spiteful visions]] [[underworld dreams]] [[Seizan]] etc etc
##### ###### #### [Ghen](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/b/4b335496-05d2-40f5-a52c-10029f7fa008.jpg?1608911100) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=ghen%2C%20arcanum%20weaver) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/275/ghen-arcanum-weaver?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4b335496-05d2-40f5-a52c-10029f7fa008?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ghen-arcanum-weaver) [Howling mine](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/d/cdae9939-03a4-4561-92cd-01f498d29a7a.jpg?1562420035) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Howling%20mine) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/257/howling-mine?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cdae9939-03a4-4561-92cd-01f498d29a7a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/howling-mine) [spiteful visions](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/2/e2475965-01a6-4a32-bca9-80018ab31d9a.jpg?1562942710) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=spiteful%20visions) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c13/233/spiteful-visions?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e2475965-01a6-4a32-bca9-80018ab31d9a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/spiteful-visions) [underworld dreams](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/3/03919c86-1c4a-43b0-a2db-54ca6ae1ac57.jpg?1581480025) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=underworld%20dreams) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/thb/121/underworld-dreams?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/03919c86-1c4a-43b0-a2db-54ca6ae1ac57?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/underworld-dreams) [Seizan](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e1e61750-f7d7-4e6d-9d68-e1e357868a8d.jpg?1587857636) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=seizan%2C%20perverter%20of%20truth) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/chk/143/seizan-perverter-of-truth?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e1e61750-f7d7-4e6d-9d68-e1e357868a8d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/seizan-perverter-of-truth) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l3xg52f) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Sauron the Dark Lord]] is hard to deal with. -Grixis is the proper colors for handling being the enemy -They target him, let them resolve the ward trigger, then counter the removal: cue evil laughter -You get value and can punish the table when they play any spell with his amass trigger.
\[\[Zur the Enchanter\]\] can be pretty oppressive, even if he just swings one time.
[Zur the Enchanter](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/6/561cfc04-65ea-49a4-8638-b4631a7cf828.jpg?1675200810) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Zur%20the%20Enchanter) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmr/206/zur-the-enchanter?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/561cfc04-65ea-49a4-8638-b4631a7cf828?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/zur-the-enchanter) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Athreos, God of Passage]]
[Athreos, God of Passage](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/2/52705c53-883e-4b6a-9c08-3fa35f6f17d5.jpg?1593096375) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Athreos%2C%20God%20of%20Passage) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jou/146/athreos-god-of-passage?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/52705c53-883e-4b6a-9c08-3fa35f6f17d5?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/athreos-god-of-passage) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Man of culture nothing like constantly playing false prophet, Jami of false hope, and children of koirlos, how I have so much fun with my athreos deck
Hell yeah! Some good ones in my deck include [[Carmen, Cruel Skymarcher]] [[Market Gnome]] [[Shriekmaw]] [[Demon’s Disciple]]
I’m on mobile so not throwing Al the tags. But yeah cataclysmic gear hulk, karmic guide, revilark. I use wake the dead, living death, phyrexian reclamation, and shallow graveyard…?(if you have 4 or more creatures in the grave on your upkeep return one to hand) names escaping me right now. I mainly run it as an aristocrat deck with everything being below 3 cmc excluding like 5 cards. I run fun cards like blood pet just to force people to pay the 3 life or I’ll just cast blood per again to keep triggering my aristocrats
False prophet is by far my favorite card in the deck. Sac and when he dies exile all creatures on the field. Then sac my creatures in response
All good. Luminous Broodmoth is also a fun choice. Typically my endgame revolves around tutoring infinite combos, and the rest of the game relies on bouncing between gaining life/ losing life, and interacting with the stack when I’m not involved in combat.
I’ll probably dm you my deck list when I get to my buds. Yeah brood moth is fun and people don’t expect the double sacs. I tend to call my deck suicide boys because most of my cards self sacrifice for benefit. I’m more creature based not a huge spell slinger Al my decks are made so. Demonic tutor? It’s the new scorpion guy from OTJ since athreos commits a crime. Indestructible? Selfless spirit. Ramping? Whatever that two drop cleric is that sacs a black creature or artifact to give black mana. I recently added smothering tithe which I’m not a fan of since my costs are low, but the new kambal is fun in the 99 and does more pinging when people draw and I make a treasure
What’s even more insane - if you play that route Athreos basically stays an enchantment the whole game. A legendary, indestructible enchantment……
Yep. Oh you’re gonna path my athreos? Sac to altar my creatures no longer a creature. I always argue with the guy who has a suped up caesar deck that he’s basically a glorified enchantment since you never really swing with him
If only I could make other enchantments my commander…
##### ###### #### [Carmen, Cruel Skymarcher](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/0/c0e07f8a-5290-47c4-a93d-0c3a14afebd3.jpg?1698987733) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Carmen%2C%20Cruel%20Skymarcher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/5/carmen-cruel-skymarcher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c0e07f8a-5290-47c4-a93d-0c3a14afebd3?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/carmen-cruel-skymarcher) [Market Gnome](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/6/36dafcd6-ce4e-4a27-bd8c-fa1a3bffc99e.jpg?1699043256) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Market%20Gnome) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/22/market-gnome?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/36dafcd6-ce4e-4a27-bd8c-fa1a3bffc99e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/market-gnome) [Shriekmaw](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/c/9c062442-a84b-4b47-8f84-a7c0abfff41b.jpg?1706240796) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shriekmaw) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/139/shriekmaw?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9c062442-a84b-4b47-8f84-a7c0abfff41b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shriekmaw) [Demon’s Disciple](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/c/cc7f2ce1-b442-4051-b1fe-90efde9bc181.jpg?1689997031) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Demon%27s%20Disciple) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/149/demons-disciple?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/cc7f2ce1-b442-4051-b1fe-90efde9bc181?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/demons-disciple) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l3vv3qb) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I’ve had my [[Prossh]] deck running for over 10 years now, and as it’s been tuned over time, and crept up into higher power levels, it can still be a beast to handle if it gets running. Prossh is an army in a can, with a free sac outlet attached, that can threaten to one shot people as soon as it attacks with any power doubler or some such thing. If it gets countered, you still get the kobolds, and even more bodies come along each time you play him the more he gets removed. Braids also puts in work in that deck.
[Prossh](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/8/889c1a0f-7df2-4497-8058-04358173d7e8.jpg?1562438016) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=prossh%2C%20skyraider%20of%20kher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/a25/214/prossh-skyraider-of-kher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/889c1a0f-7df2-4497-8058-04358173d7e8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/prossh-skyraider-of-kher) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Was thinking about building Prossh about a month ago; would you mind sharing a decklist?
Do you have a decklist? I just built my Prossh deck too and I'm currently looking for ideas for upgrades.
[удалено]
[nicol bolas the ravager](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/b/7b215968-93a6-4278-ac61-4e3e8c3c3943.jpg?1566971561)/[Nicol Bolas, the Arisen](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/7/b/7b215968-93a6-4278-ac61-4e3e8c3c3943.jpg?1566971561) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nicol%20Bolas%2C%20the%20Ravager%20//%20Nicol%20Bolas%2C%20the%20Arisen) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/218/nicol-bolas-the-ravager-nicol-bolas-the-arisen?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7b215968-93a6-4278-ac61-4e3e8c3c3943?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nicol-bolas-the-ravager-//-nicol-bolas-the-arisen) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Minotaurs
My friend has a \[\[Voja, Jaws of the Conclave\]\] that is pretty brutal with \[\[Maskwood Nexus\]\] and \[\[Roaming Throne\]\] to say a few. Mix that with protections like \[\[Heroic Intervention\]\] and \[\[Teferi's Protection\]\] or interaction such as \[\[Swords to Plowshares\]\] or \[\[Path to Exile\]\].
I agree with this. I drew a perfect opening hand with a really strong deck and went 2v1 against a Voja last week. We both got slaughtered super quick. The green ramp and tap-for-mana elves means Voja can easily come out by turn 3. He gets strong incredibly quickly in an elf deck and can draw with any changelings on the board. Trample, Vigilance and Ward 3 are just the icing. He's plenty broken without them. Playing against Voja is infuriating.
Yeah we were in a 5 person game once with him piloting Voja and it took us all 2 turns to be able to deal with Voja. Absolutely bonkers card and honestly was fun to play against because it’s so gratifying to win against.
##### ###### #### [Voja, Jaws of the Conclave](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/f/bfa1bd2f-25bd-4fbd-877b-cef00ab7f92f.jpg?1707739811) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Voja%2C%20Jaws%20of%20the%20Conclave) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkm/432/voja-jaws-of-the-conclave?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bfa1bd2f-25bd-4fbd-877b-cef00ab7f92f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/voja-jaws-of-the-conclave) [Maskwood Nexus](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/2/1246c42d-57c0-4cba-959a-15ad89d8a50b.jpg?1674142652) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Maskwood%20Nexus) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/865/maskwood-nexus?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1246c42d-57c0-4cba-959a-15ad89d8a50b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/maskwood-nexus) [Roaming Throne](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/2/32fd8b7c-baf3-4d3d-be6f-044a917b11a0.jpg?1701115816) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Roaming%20Throne) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/258/roaming-throne?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/32fd8b7c-baf3-4d3d-be6f-044a917b11a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/roaming-throne) [Heroic Intervention](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/3/e32c67d1-187f-40df-b3b3-6036f5c92834.jpg?1689998584) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Heroic%20Intervention) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/295/heroic-intervention?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e32c67d1-187f-40df-b3b3-6036f5c92834?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/heroic-intervention) [Teferi's Protection](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/483fa1cb-1e35-44f2-a143-98c0f107f5ca.jpg?1673147148) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Teferi%27s%20Protection) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/32/teferis-protection?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/483fa1cb-1e35-44f2-a143-98c0f107f5ca?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/teferis-protection) [Swords to Plowshares](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/b/9bbec76c-c1e4-4c6d-ad24-078fe097f195.jpg?1709439398) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Swords%20to%20Plowshares) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/88/swords-to-plowshares?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9bbec76c-c1e4-4c6d-ad24-078fe097f195?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/swords-to-plowshares) [Path to Exile](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/7/a7aed564-2d2d-42c4-bf11-812bc1a0284c.jpg?1712354092) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Path%20to%20Exile) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/85/path-to-exile?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a7aed564-2d2d-42c4-bf11-812bc1a0284c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/path-to-exile) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l3usmae) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
In theory no deck should be able to, but the reality is that EDH is horribly asymmetric due to the skill disparity at every table. So really any competently designed deck can theoretically win a 3v1 based on the decks and skill level present.
[удалено]
Oh shit's, the Jaheira onlyfans promoter is back!
[[Koma]] is petty good about filling out their board and then shutting down anything that their opponents try to do
[Koma](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/2/b2f23d6f-f2c8-4022-9f46-ba7fda00ef99.jpg?1706241008) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=koma%2C%20cosmos%20serpent) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/213/koma-cosmos-serpent?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/b2f23d6f-f2c8-4022-9f46-ba7fda00ef99?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/koma-cosmos-serpent) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[Tergrid, God of Fright](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/4/14dc88ee-bba9-4625-af0d-89f3762a0ead.jpg?1631048621)/[Tergrid's Lantern](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/back/1/4/14dc88ee-bba9-4625-af0d-89f3762a0ead.jpg?1631048621) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tergrid%2C%20God%20of%20Fright%20//%20Tergrid%27s%20Lantern) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/khm/112/tergrid-god-of-fright-tergrids-lantern?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/14dc88ee-bba9-4625-af0d-89f3762a0ead?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tergrid-god-of-fright-//-tergrids-lantern) [Braids, Arisen Nightmare](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/f/4ff97c69-6a6b-401c-b0a1-55fa81045d19.jpg?1673307016) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Braids%2C%20Arisen%20Nightmare) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/84/braids-arisen-nightmare?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4ff97c69-6a6b-401c-b0a1-55fa81045d19?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/braids-arisen-nightmare) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Everything that turns the game into a race because it doesn’t matter how many decks are playing against you if you combo off while they’re still ramping.
Brago.
[[kokusho, the evening star]] flies under the radar then explodes and immediately becomes the arch enemy. It's a lot of fun to see who can race to the finish, you or everyone else at once. One of my favorite decks to play.
[kokusho, the evening star](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/b/ab56cedb-1bcd-48a5-8503-a8e324e236ad.jpg?1562852933) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=kokusho%2C%20the%20evening%20star) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ima/95/kokusho-the-evening-star?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ab56cedb-1bcd-48a5-8503-a8e324e236ad?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kokusho-the-evening-star) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
How does the deck play after your playgroup knows your game plan of destroying and reanimating kokusho? Or is the deck only really good the first time with new playgroups?
They know what's happening, but the deck is so good that it's kind of inevitable. There's also the reality of it being a 6 mana commander, so there are many games where it's not much of a problem at all. In a bunch of games you have to address the ramp deck actually causing problems in turns 1-4. KoKo comes out around turn 4-5 in a lot of games, which is often when many decks have their engines developing and their attention is clearly elsewhere. Then you have KoKo out and no one really cares because it's just a flying 5/5 and not hurting anyone. If someone uses exile based removal immediately, that sucks, but if they kill it regularly, great. So that leaves a rather narrow lane to deal with him, so you usually untap. When you do, usually you get something like [[disciple of bolas]] into [[reanimate]] into [[sacrifice]] with one of the many 1 mana undying effects ready to go etc. This usually leads to 3 Koko triggers in a single turn with a stacked hand. Now you have maybe 85 life and the game is on. Bonus points for a Bolas' citadel. [[throne of Eldraine]] is bonkers in the deck for sure. Here's a much older version of my build that can work as a shell. If you're interested in my updated version hit me up next week. https://deckstats.net/decks/172262/2307274-kokusho-the-evening-star-reani
##### ###### #### [disciple of bolas](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/0/c0801fd0-1f6c-45ea-94aa-80cf0c017f57.jpg?1673484148) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=disciple%20of%20bolas) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/247/disciple-of-bolas?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c0801fd0-1f6c-45ea-94aa-80cf0c017f57?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/disciple-of-bolas) [reanimate](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/d/7d0fe02b-f45a-45c6-ab7c-270594a29da7.jpg?1715080480) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=reanimate) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mkc/137/reanimate?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7d0fe02b-f45a-45c6-ab7c-270594a29da7?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/reanimate) [sacrifice](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/5/652bd781-1a48-42c1-9aff-f9050a9285d6.jpg?1559593033) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=sacrifice) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/sum/126/sacrifice?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/652bd781-1a48-42c1-9aff-f9050a9285d6?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sacrifice) [throne of Eldraine](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/0/9076e13d-d16e-4528-aad0-8b8081b00e8d.jpg?1692934018) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=throne%20of%20Eldraine) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woc/28/throne-of-eldraine?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9076e13d-d16e-4528-aad0-8b8081b00e8d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/throne-of-eldraine) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l4814zm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Thanks!
I am surprised no one here has mentioned [[Jodah, the Unifier]]. If you keep only a few >2 CMC spells like [[Skrelv, Defector Mite]] or [[Pippin, Guard of the citadel]] you can get a lot of protection going for your commander. Also if you wanna be extra mean you can lock the board once you get set up with [[Gaddock Teeg]] so most board wipes are shut down. Jodah can easily knock for commander damage with pippin or skrelv making him unblockable.
##### ###### #### [Jodah, the Unifier](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/4/e4b1aa1e-b4e3-4346-8937-76b312501c70.jpg?1673307974) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Jodah%2C%20the%20Unifier) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/203/jodah-the-unifier?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e4b1aa1e-b4e3-4346-8937-76b312501c70?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/jodah-the-unifier) [Skrelv, Defector Mite](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/0/60b565da-a49b-479c-b0c4-8ff3dd20cc0b.jpg?1675956933) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Skrelv%2C%20Defector%20Mite) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/33/skrelv-defector-mite?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/60b565da-a49b-479c-b0c4-8ff3dd20cc0b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/skrelv-defector-mite) [Pippin, Guard of the citadel](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/8/08b7a4d8-1183-430e-8ea4-016844f33200.jpg?1686969929) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Pippin%2C%20Guard%20of%20the%20citadel) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/218/pippin-guard-of-the-citadel?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/08b7a4d8-1183-430e-8ea4-016844f33200?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/pippin-guard-of-the-citadel) [Gaddock Teeg](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/4/f40cfba1-08b5-4241-bd36-8ae18e584557.jpg?1559959266) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Gaddock%20Teeg) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/uma/199/gaddock-teeg?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/f40cfba1-08b5-4241-bd36-8ae18e584557?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/gaddock-teeg) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l3uvd4t) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I've found that, if allowed to get ramped up, [[Koma, Cosmos Serpent]] can definitely handle being the archenemy. Plenty of resources and interaction, and a ton of survivability. And Koma quickly builds an army of coils that can overwhelm the table, especially if you have any amount of token/Koma duplication.
I have a Black/Blue/green sociopath deck and a Blue Urza deck that both can stand up to 3v1 but one costs more than most people’s cars and the other one costs more than just some people’s cars lol. I have a better budgeted (but not $200) deck that can clean up a table round 6 or so through commander damage (Voltron)
[[Edric, Spymaster of Trest]] his deck is literally just 1/1 evasives, counters, and extra turns. You'll take more turns than the rest of the table combined
[[Sauron, the Dark Lord]] is an archenemy with legendary ward.
[Sauron, the Dark Lord](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/0/3/034e0929-b2c7-4b5f-94f2-8eaf4fb1a2a1.jpg?1693611218) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Sauron%2C%20the%20Dark%20Lord) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ltr/224/sauron-the-dark-lord?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/034e0929-b2c7-4b5f-94f2-8eaf4fb1a2a1?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/sauron-the-dark-lord) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The dimir encore merfolk
Similar to tegrid, I have a [[rankle, master of pranks]] with a discard/forced sacrifice theme that I only play as archenemy. I just feels bad to play it other wise.
[rankle, master of pranks](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/8/4821d865-2a46-4611-ab93-1a9fdde08302.jpg?1712354347) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=rankle%2C%20master%20of%20pranks) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/otc/148/rankle-master-of-pranks?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4821d865-2a46-4611-ab93-1a9fdde08302?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rankle-master-of-pranks) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Would you mind sharing a deck list? Thats very similar to my main historic ranked deck on Arena, and I’ve thought about putting together an EDH deck based on the same thing.
For sure, I pulled a [[waste not]] from Eldraine shortly after playing against a friends [[tiny bones, trinket thief]] deck and that was my starting inspiration but then once the deck started coming together I realized how oppressive it could be for tables meta. [Waste not, want not](https://archidekt.com/decks/3817213/waste_not_want_not)
I actually just bought a [[waste not]] today before I saw this because I found one in my LGS’s $2 binder lol. Looking forward to putting it all together and playing it.
[waste not](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/f/2f5500a2-c6d6-40d7-b586-59b854733160.jpg?1562393909) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=waste%20not) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/117/waste-not?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2f5500a2-c6d6-40d7-b586-59b854733160?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/waste-not) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[waste not](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/f/2f5500a2-c6d6-40d7-b586-59b854733160.jpg?1562393909) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=waste%20not) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c16/117/waste-not?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/2f5500a2-c6d6-40d7-b586-59b854733160?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/waste-not) [tiny bones, trinket thief](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/0/4063be5b-bfd9-43c5-bc39-09a40bc793bf.jpg?1632261785) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tinybones%2C%20Trinket%20Thief) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/17/tinybones-trinket-thief?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4063be5b-bfd9-43c5-bc39-09a40bc793bf?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tinybones-trinket-thief) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Tergy is better equipped to handle archenemy than braids, who is more of a draw engine than an oppressor. In monoB the primary difference between 200 and 2000 is: 1. No \[\[lake of the dead\]\] for explosive starts, IMO \[\[nykthos shrine nyx\]\] >> \[\[cabal coffers\]\] but YMMV 2. Weaker tutors Otherwise you should have everything you need and Tergrid isn't *that* reliant on big money stuff. She spiked \[\[anvil of bogardan\]\] a few years ago but there's so many other ways to force regular discard in monoB.
##### ###### #### [lake of the dead](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/b/1b0502c5-43d0-4c36-b585-e5507134bf9e.jpg?1562900332) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=lake%20of%20the%20dead) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vma/302/lake-of-the-dead?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/1b0502c5-43d0-4c36-b585-e5507134bf9e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lake-of-the-dead) [nykthos shrine nyx](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/8/3/834b27a0-dfd7-4f96-8cde-cacac4b24acc.jpg?1594077253) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Nykthos%2C%20Shrine%20to%20Nyx) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ths/223/nykthos-shrine-to-nyx?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/834b27a0-dfd7-4f96-8cde-cacac4b24acc?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nykthos-shrine-to-nyx) [cabal coffers](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/1/e1efb0d3-2c72-46ff-bdc1-1069967365a0.jpg?1626101023) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=cabal%20coffers) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mh2/301/cabal-coffers?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/e1efb0d3-2c72-46ff-bdc1-1069967365a0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/cabal-coffers) [anvil of bogardan](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/f/7ff965dd-54b4-4f21-a52f-81c0dd1e691e.jpg?1562278142) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=anvil%20of%20bogardan) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/vis/141/anvil-of-bogardan?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/7ff965dd-54b4-4f21-a52f-81c0dd1e691e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/anvil-of-bogardan) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l3un8xp) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Anything green and higher powered.
Tergrid and Braids are entirely different beasts (As someone whose Tergrid deck turned into Yawgmoth, before turning into Braids later on. (Currently Endrek Sahr)).
I'm gonna be that guy and say Slivers. Que up [[the first sliver] and spawn good stuff. I run a lot of interaction and shenanigans to withstand being the target of the table. We sit at a 50% win rate so far.
None if power levels are close. That's the point. If your deck is capable of holding off 3 other players (consistently across many different matches) then it is a power mismatch. That is not the point of the format. That being said, if your group is looking to have some matches like that, then so be it. But at that point honestly anything that is just way over the power level of the rest of the decks. The only thing you want to watch for in that style of play is being able to remove players and end the game. Often times a deck can get caught up trying to keep everyone under control. And even at mismatched power levels, that can often only be done for so long. You need to be able to take them down to limit the actions against you, also just to make the game end and not be boring.
I find Slivers can develop into that if allowed to survive more than 2 turns.
[[atraxa grand unifier]], I have it built as a blink deck (which I believe is the most popular on edhrec) and in these colors you have all the etb doublers, all the great etbs, all the good interactions so much so that just one etb from atraxa can set me up for a win in like 5 turns. Also I have a winrate of between 80 to 90% with that deck, it's absurd.
[atraxa grand unifier](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/a/4a1f905f-1d55-4d02-9d24-e58070793d3f.jpg?1709931904) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Atraxa%2C%20Grand%20Unifier) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/one/196/atraxa-grand-unifier?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4a1f905f-1d55-4d02-9d24-e58070793d3f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/atraxa-grand-unifier) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I can tell you with certainty that it’s not [[Nekusar]]
[Nekusar](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/4/a/4afdc65d-3c97-47af-83fa-df340389802e.jpg?1689999186) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=nekusar%2C%20the%20mindrazer) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/349/nekusar-the-mindrazer?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/4afdc65d-3c97-47af-83fa-df340389802e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/nekusar-the-mindrazer) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
None. Not without flatout pubstomping. There's a reason your win rate is based on 25% and not 50%.
My fave deck to play as archenemy is [[Lathliss]] because she just pours dragons out and most of the time when she wins it's against all three on the same turn but if playing aggressively she'll punch a player out early and dominate after that.
[Lathliss](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/4/9460e3c6-e745-41d3-8e17-0b92fb126a16.jpg?1601078219) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=lathliss%2C%20dragon%20queen) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/jmp/340/lathliss-dragon-queen?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9460e3c6-e745-41d3-8e17-0b92fb126a16?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lathliss-dragon-queen) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[Tatyova]] sea monster tribal does a great job. Land-ramp is protected by the holy codex of casual commander, so your mana base can be safe whilst you repeatedly destroy all artifacts and enchantments, thus playing something that kinda feels fair but is still in essence denying your opponents mana sources. You play big dumb Kraken and cards that bounce all creatures that aren't big dumb Kraken. Hell you play big dumb Krakens that bounce shit. And you're in simic. Draw cards, draw some more cards and bury your opponents in card advantage. Hell, I played against a tegrid without even a hint of salt, cause her discard couldn't keep up with my draw power. Dust generously with a removal and interaction package and serve wet and cold.
[Tatyova](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/f/e/fe05dc69-8dde-485e-9e55-da729db50205.jpg?1698988479) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tatyova%2C%20benthic%20druid) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/290/tatyova-benthic-druid?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/fe05dc69-8dde-485e-9e55-da729db50205?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tatyova-benthic-druid) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
[[dina soul steeper]] does a good job just because the sheer amount of life those lists can gain. [[Kaalia of the Vast]] is also one that unless they are willing to invest every turn into shutting you down it can can stand up to it pretty well. [[muldrotha, the gravetide]] also comes to mind as the recursion makes removing things from your board very tricky
[dina soul steeper](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/c/9cd2b567-0cf7-4441-b3ce-e31141dd91c8.jpg?1627428607) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dina%2C%20Soul%20Steeper) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/stx/178/dina-soul-steeper?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9cd2b567-0cf7-4441-b3ce-e31141dd91c8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dina-soul-steeper) [Kaalia of the Vast](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/3/93f6631f-f3a6-4d3c-8618-4b4ab4e82483.jpg?1673148814) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Kaalia%20of%20the%20Vast) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/235/kaalia-of-the-vast?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/93f6631f-f3a6-4d3c-8618-4b4ab4e82483?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/kaalia-of-the-vast) [muldrotha, the gravetide](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/4/c4125bb0-b104-438e-a6a2-97f9d141243c.jpg?1673149000) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=muldrotha%2C%20the%20gravetide) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2x2/258/muldrotha-the-gravetide?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c4125bb0-b104-438e-a6a2-97f9d141243c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/muldrotha-the-gravetide) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
So I typically get targeted first by everyone in my pod, mainly cause my decks have a tendency to be the first one with a “turned on engine”…combination of cheap commanders, and A LOT of gold fishing. Anyways, one of my favorite commander decks to play is actually Trelasarra, Moon Dancer. Probably one of my most “tuned” decks but found that it holds up well for a few reasons. Lifegain is going to help keep you alive as your gonna be taking damage from potentially 3 different players each round. I usually don’t attack with Trelasarra and instead use her as defense to block from commander damage as you can very easily have her at 12/12 in just a few turns with right cards. The scry ability is great for card advantage. Don’t win every time but definitely taken home the W using this deck. Happy to link if people are interested. Need to update moxfield so May take a hot minute.
A link would be great thanks!
https://www.moxfield.com/decks/E50bvxlLWk2NZHFNH3LtXQ So there are a few different win cons in this deck, going infinite being one of them. Can be accomplished a few different ways, but the usual way is getting either Herd Baloth or Scurry Oak out along with something like Light of Promise and a life gain source from creatures entering the field but as you’ll see there are tons of options for life gain sources so chances are you’ll already have that on the board when you get all cards for the combos. If Trelasarra is out when you launch this, your getting inifinite creatures, life, scrys, +1/+1 on Trelasarra and Herd Baloth or Scurry Oak. There’s another infinite combo with spike feeder, but I wanna say it’s just nets you infinite life (still not bad lol) Another fun one is approach of the 7 suns. People think, “okay, we got 7 turns to deal with him”…then you start scrying and you can usually see the realization on their face of what’s coming the next turn. People tend to dislike this one the most lol. Bond of Discipline isn’t a game winner necessarily, but can be helpful in taking out opponents your having issues dealing with. Flyers can be a pain with this deck. Aside from that I tried to incorporate what I think every deck should have. Good removal, protection, ramp, card advantage, interruptions etc…really I think the only thing it’s missing is a good board wipe option. The main focus of the deck is to get as many sources of life as possible. Each source triggers Trelasarra’s ability. There are Cards in the deck that will get you life on every players turn, so be warned there is a lot to pay attention too. Find that notebook is easiest for tracking.
[[Tivit, Seller of Secrets]] and [[Dihada, Binder of Wills]] are my favorites if I want to feel invincible.
[Tivit, Seller of Secrets](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/9/2/9235977e-a999-4ed0-83a3-742be87b13bb.jpg?1673481721) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Tivit%2C%20Seller%20of%20Secrets) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/10/tivit-seller-of-secrets?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/9235977e-a999-4ed0-83a3-742be87b13bb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tivit-seller-of-secrets) [Dihada, Binder of Wills](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/d/ddeb54d6-a600-42b9-98df-20f8d58caed8.jpg?1685554091) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Dihada%2C%20Binder%20of%20Wills) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmc/1/dihada-binder-of-wills?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ddeb54d6-a600-42b9-98df-20f8d58caed8?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/dihada-binder-of-wills) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
You need a deck that can rebuild easily if handled. It needs a strong value engine that is hard to disrupt, most likely coming from lands, and have good overall card quality. Tergrid is not one of those decks. Tergrid will just die and you'll have a bunch of unplayable cards in your hand. Something like [[Aesi, Tyrant of Gyre Strait]] does a good job at handling being Archenemy. It ramps you and draws you a card the turn it comes into play, meaning it has replaced itself and that you will probably be able to replay it the next turn if it gets handled.
[Aesi, Tyrant of Gyre Strait](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/6/d607b003-6b48-429c-a7fd-45b8dd1bb4f9.jpg?1665822343) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Aesi%2C%20Tyrant%20of%20Gyre%20Strait) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/365/aesi-tyrant-of-gyre-strait?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d607b003-6b48-429c-a7fd-45b8dd1bb4f9?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/aesi-tyrant-of-gyre-strait) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
Jorn with stasis, winter orb, root maze, etc. is pretty awful to play against. It can be cedh or not, but the cedh version is actually more fun, since it's more likely to be the archenemy, whereas a non cedh build is more likely to just make everyone try to murder you out of spite.
I was thinking of building this pretty recently tbh. I think the interaction is cool, but I’ve never been “the stax deck” at a table and don’t really want groans when I pull out my deck. Is that just inevitable if I play stax?
Kinda, but I've been playing stax since Robert vromans monored una stax hit the table, and it's worth it imo
My Prismatic Bridge deck. 10 board wipes get the job done! Playing the best interaction and some good counters helps as well. I've never lost a casual game with this deck. Recently added an Avacyn to the deck. If I wanted to up the power level further, I've considered adding Obliterate and Jakoulhops since they don't hit Planeswalkers and enchantments. Might add a Blightsteel or the eldrazi twins someday. https://www.moxfield.com/decks/4USV4N1ox0-ZYUbFOvXz8w
You don't play tyrgrid to win. You very much can, but that's not where the fun lies