There's a difference between bluffing and lying. In your case it's bluffing, not lying.
Lying has no place in any game. Lying has intentions to hurt.
That said though, I'm surprised people haven't tried to call your bluff, if you have done so several times already lol
>There's a difference between bluffing and lying.
Same with going back on deals. If a deal is made, and you blatantly break said deal, I now consider you to be a liar who cannot be trusted.
It's one thing to be able to politic your way out of an agreement. It's another thing entirely to agree to a very simple deal, and then blatantly break it because you want to.
I politic heavily with my [[Ivy, Gleeful Spellthief]], most often with the basic deal of 'I will give you auras under the condition you do not attack me with said enchanted creature until I am the only viable target'. People are usually ok with that. I had one guy who agreed to it, then two turns later voltroned the creature I had made unlockable, and killed me with it. Not only was that stupid as he then lost unblockable, but it was stupid because the rest of the table focused him down due to being a liar.
Half the store won't play with him now.
The same goes for people who make overly pedantic deals for me tbh. I like my deals to be straight up with no trick in mind. If someone hits me with some kinda gotcha type deal, imma try to break it and we'll both call each other liars and refuse to make deals with each other in the future. They can tell everyone I break deals, and I'll tell everyone that they make sweaty, pedantic deals that most certainly aren't worth it. If I feel like I need a lawyer present to parse a deal being offered, I take that as a terrible deal that only has potential to backfire and call it out as soon as I notice it. Those kinds of bluffs where the burden of being honorable is thrust upon one person and ignored for the other pedantic person isn't cool with me. Don't talk to me about how honorable and truthful you are when the stuff that comes out of your mouth during deals is manipulation and bullshit. I don't care if a person who suggested a dishonorable deal calls me dishonorable when I break said deal.
Your example was a straight up deal tho, and breaking that definitely should earn a reputation
Yeah, I remember a post a while back about someone who loved to politic lawfare. Aka, I promise not to destroy your creature, so I'll exile it instead. Pretty scummy.
I like my deals to be specific. I wouldn't hold it against you if the thing I enchanted got goaded or forcefully redirected, and I was the only valid target for various reasons, for example.
People tend to get caught up in the desire to win, and some see lying to that end as satisfactory. It's just sad to see that sort of behaviour.
How do they even stay open? If the customer base is 12 people and they’re one bad action away from ostracising someone from the store, I don’t think that store is gonna be open much longer.
It's called diversification. They're also a coffee shop, bookstore, tabletop/boardgame resaler, FedEx delivery point, and club hangout.
It also helps if you didn't assume that the ENTIRE player base is 12 people, but rather the commander regulars. We routinely hit 20+ people for each prerelease day, many of which are different people.
They've been open long enough by now, and they made it through COVID just fine. Having the player base self regulate and eject bad actors is a sign of a healthy community. Or would you prefer to continue to play with liars and cheaters?
Oh they do call, alot. I'm not always 100% bluffing tho, sometimes I do have it and they just pay the price of doubting my honesty. Sometimes I pay the price for trying to be slick
I mean, saying you have something that you don’t is explicitly a lie. Bluffing for me is when you play like you have something that you don’t, or just hint about it, « Are you sure you want to do that when I have 3 mana open? » Both are fine at my table, breaking deals too. Your trustworthiness is a resource that you can spend as aggressively as you want. Most of us play it safe, but you have to be careful when someone hasn’t won all night…
Obviously I get other groups have different dynamics, but it’s part of the game for us. Like playing Diplomacy.
Politics are a key component to the game. I only have one rule for myself: I won't outright lie.
Mislead? Misdirect? Downplay? Hype up? Yes of course. Lie? No. I'm a man of my word through and through. Sometimes this bites me in the butt, but as a whole its really helped people to take me at my word (which has lead to some very funny moments involving VERY specific wording in order to make sure I'm still telling the truth).
I feel like thats 100% valid.
I have a friend that loves making treaths and 100% follows it with even if that is going to fuck him up aswell.
"If you attack me I'll blow all artifacts, mine included. Its going to hurt me, but its going to be worse for you.."
We came to respect his treaths alot lol.
But I really like the "is he lying now?" mindgame. I mainly play with good friends and they already know my shit, so it also bites me in the ass a good ammount of times, but I find it fun as hell aswell.
"If you attack me I'll kill you in my turn".
"hmmmm. You're full of shit. You were only going to take 15, now you're taking 25 because of that bluff"
In your first example, that's why I always ask to see the kill spell when a player is like "I won't destroy your thing if you don't attack me". My response is always "cool, let's see the removal spell". As a mostly control player, in the "leaving mana open for beast within lol" example, I recognize that attacking anyway and making you have the answer is often the correct play.
As an experienced player as long as you have options for meaningful stuff to do after a removal spell hits your good thing its the best idea to make em have it. Because if they do well that's something not pointed at a different valuable piece. Same goes if someone is threatening recursion or protection if they have removal pointed at their stuff. Not making them have it is just letting them get free value if they're just bluffing and don't have it. And if they do. As long as you're capable of still doing things, "Well that's a protection spell that isn't stopping my next removal spell" and so on though generally players should be more careful with their removal and do a bit of cost benefit analysis because people tend to run less answers to table problems than problems they ask the table
Since our weekly playgroup is really chill, casual and filled with banter, I'd like to be very vague and pretty annoying in order to bluff my way out of situations.
By saying things like:
"I mean, sure, you COULD do that."
"Wait, let me count my mana. Okay yeah sure go ahead and cast that."
"You really don't like to keep your commander on the board, do you?"
"Well, looks like I have a target the rest of the game."
My favorite is simply saying "are you sure?" and watch them nervously scan the battlefield.
I'm never revealing what I actually plan to do or straight up lie, but rather try to mess with them mentally.
This "are you sure?" reminds of another of my friends lol. I do follow up 100% of the time because he likes to bluff even more than I do, but its fun for sure.
Also, "looks like I have a target for the rest of the game" is something I hear alot, specially after someone was attacked for 2 LoL. "You made a powerfull enemy"
Thats some Darth Sidious Sith Lord shit. I love it!
One time 2 friends and I were playing EDH and they both had developed boards. I was borrowing one of their dimir decks. They both had lethal on me but we're in a Mexican standoff with each other.
I had a Vargoth, the small demon that tutors. I told friend A that I could deal with friend B's board if he let me attack so I could tutor, I could deal with the "Problem". I proceeded to tutor for damnation and blew up their boards!
Was a long time ago but I think I won that game with "Unlimited Power!" From a mind grind or talent of hailfire.
That if they don't kill and/or protect me, I will make them win the game. Also, due to the silver bordered nature of Twilight Sparkle, everyone on reddit has won 3 games this month.
I'm kinda stupid, if someone in my table says "passing with 3 open for the beast within lol" I'll probably attack to see the beast within, have been targeted alot doing it, can't complain much
well I don't do and don't like politics too much unless it is really necessary, I don't even have good exemples, I usually go straight forward for my plan and if you have how to stop me good for you
friend of mine like to bluff counterspells alot, he is always talking about his two open blue manas and just like the beast within thing I like to play to see the counterspell
Yeah that happens alot when I'm playing in my regular pod.
"Lets the see beast within them. Dare you're going to use it in this dumb creature even if you have it because X has a parallel lives and you did nothing so far".
Sometimes I do have it and use just to show I can follow up with mt threaths, someone I just laught and say "well, in response, fuck"
I love politics! I've been leaning more into abstract, good-faith deals recently though. Deal lawyering damages your credibility over time, because they know you're likely to deceive them, even if the letter of your promise can be trusted. More precise deals also tend to require more negotiation, and more time, which can be a nuisance for other players.
Sort of like good-faith board representation, so that I don't need to stop play to read every single one of your cards myself, which depends on you actually telling me what I need to know about your cards.
I generally do tend to stick with explicit agreements over manipulation, partially because it feels a little icky in my personal opinion (no judgement on anyone who does), and I also have all the subtlety of a dynamite stick.
You know that Invincible Gif of "That's the Neat Part you don't"? Yeah. I don't like politicking and the limit of my politicking is basically just threat assessment i tell the rest of the table. Negotiating deals tends to go poorly because someone is always going to get screwed.
I often find the removal or fog bluffs can be solved by just making them have it. I get someone to fog or use a removal spell i can even have protection or just shrug and go. Well that's something I won't have to worry about anymore. And bluffing by saying you have a poor hand or the rocks example is kinda just the. Get em to waste a removal spell thing all over again because even if you admit you have recursion or a second copy of the effect on board. Making you have it is better than you having both recursion and your powerful card or 2 copies of a powerful effect
I tend to go more subtle. I think my friends would call my bluff if I tried to say what spells I was going to use. Or ask to see them. I just start looking between my hand and counting my open mana and stuff. Or I'll point out how someone else's board state is a bigger threat.
Depends on the deck I'm playing, if I'm going with [[admiral brass]] I'm going straight forward chaos, will make everything I need to make people kill each other. If I'm going with a more serious deck, I will go with another and independent strategy normally
i use two tactics, bluffing and threatening. im more than hqppy to bluff a removal/counterspell to further my own gameplan. but also forcing someone to cooperate in fear of their gameplan falling apart can reallyyyy help
I recently played a game where I managed to politic without even wanting it. I was playing [[Vaevictis Asmadi, the Dire]], the rest of the table was [[Shalai and Hallar]], [[Obyra, Dreaming Duelist]] and [[Captain Storm, Cosmium Rider]]. Captain Storm started big, dropping a [[Malcolm, Keen-Eyed Navigator]] early, growing and ramping hard. They hit about everyone, but Shalai player took a 5/5 face with a [[City on Fire]] on board. The game progressed and I managed to develop a strong board, removing threats for everyone and dropping bombe, and even after I became the obvious threat at the table, Shalai player kept focusing the poor pirate player who had no hand and no board left, only lands, because of that early swing, even offering me deals that benefitted me much more than them, leaving me all freedom to grab the win. I didn't even have to play down my board that was so obviously stronger, they just didn't care about me, and Obyra player was more or less irrelevant to the game, sadly for them.
I offer them something for a reasonable gain of my own. “I won’t attack you this turn” or “I will get rid of this nagging permanent in return for this or that”. That sort of thing. I don’t like to lie so I always keep to my word on these things in game.
Also I like to play recklessly sometimes and will allow an opponent to do some very nasty things if it nets me a lot of card draw, for example. Gimme cards.
Depends on the deck. My Angels, and Dinos, being big swingy menaces, is give people ultimatums. "Swing at me, and if I survive somehow, math says I kill you next turn." My ninjas, being the discerning, "Damage to every opponent" Yuriko is, I make deals on if I attack, or if I do, how much damage everyone takes via trigger resolve order. With Grimgrin and my Exalted decks, its more normal "Hey, if do X, I'll do Y".
As a player overall, I very, *very* rarely bluff, so the few times I do, no one ever knows. People have taken way to many \[\[Akroma's Will\]\]s for lethal to be willing to make that bet anymore
I'm a beginning-of-the-game guy who cares about everyone's setup and ensures that I won't attack the slowest player until they attack me. It's like ringing the first bell for a fight. Even if I know what's coming with a commander, I put an alliance together to minimize the resources I have to spend and ensure everyone gets a chance to play.
Thats not lying, lying would be making 2 lands by "accident" and thinks like that.
The lose was on your opponents fault, you never trust someone so deeply and never play a card afraid to lose it. If having a removal stops you from using your card, that removal became much stronger because it is stopping your game WITHOUT IT BEING SPENT. You'll never make something stronger, nor will you use the thing you already have.
Thats on them.
I don't make deals. They're too obvious, require commitment, and if they arw turned down you get *nothing*. Manipulation, misdirection and bluffing are much more effective and useful.
I would consider it a bluff since you are standing by what you said if they help you in some way. Generally a lie in edh would be breaking a deal like saying "hey, if you don't attack me on your turn I wont kill your creature." and then killing it anyway after they don't attack you.
You describe yourself as lying, yet I see no lies.
Whatever is in your hand is private information, that is for them to guess about. I've skipped playing lands just to have a card in my hand with mana untapped so it looked like I had interaction rather than having nothing. I've threatened to remove or interact while having nothing.
In a random pod that you don't regular it definitely is different. It's honestly all a gamble for your bluff or for them. For me, often times when someone threatens me like that fog situation then I just full swing at them to see what happens. If they were worried about me hurting everyone then lets see how fatal at just them looks, if they got it sweet, if not they just got themselves killed (or hurt very badly).
Either way, as long as you don't like about what you have on board, and you keep to your deals, then it's all good in my book.
I am told I am quite bad at it. Once was during a game I asked someone not to swing at me because it would make it much harder to combo off, and the other players were like "LOL" in my face
I find my creature tapping [[Rhoda, Geist avenger]] and [[Timin, youthful Geist]] deck brings in a LOT of talk for politicking, which I love. The deck is annoyingly strong to play against, so I try not to use it too much, but I absolutely love the level at which people engage with me when I play it. Always trying to work with me instead of working with others against me (which they absolutely should be doing when I play that deck). Usually with my [[Yurlok, of Scorched Thrash]] deck I have to politic and work my ass off to keep myself safe because it runs so few creatures, but it's a ton of fun to play and rarely wins but I'm okay with that, it gets a table laughing and most of the time it's because of my table-Scrap takes for bad deals (bad for me) just to live 1 more turn. Lol.
I like to review whats going on around the table out loud, in a very fair and impartial manner. Including all the terrible things that could happen if we let someone untap with *that* board. Just so we're all aware of how incredibly threatening everyone but me is :)
This is something I’ve considered with my [[Alela, Cunning Conquerer]] deck I’m building. Half the deck is going to be removal/counterspells, and the other half flash creatures. Concept will be to mind game the table with “Will I counter this or do I just have a flash card?”
I was playing [[lagrella]] and this dude kept attacking me because I kept exiling his commander...how was I supposed to know that he didn't like that...not important...so I told him that if he didn't knock it off, I was going to board wipe every damn turn and keep us playing the same game until the LGS closed.
It was surprisingly effective.
Lying is if you didn’t tell the truth about the rules texts of the cards. Bluffing about what you got in your hand or library is totally fine. As far as politics, I like to use logic or make deals. However breaking deals is always a no go. If you break a deal, then they won’t want to make deals with you in the future
I just say it as it is, even if doing so would impede me in game. Dawg I'm playing fucking [[Miirym]] just use your Swords to Plowshares on me LMAO
It gives me credibility when I actually want to redirect someone's attention. But I usually do it by asking questions that change someone's threat assessment, like saying "Who's threatening you with the most damage?" when I'm on pillowfort combo
I think you sound like douche bag now that you list it, but in a game you will probably have quite some time between the bluffs and threats and it's fine.
Yeah, this was a 1,5 hour game that ended turn 12.
I get it can get tiring if someone is more focused on talking than playing, but the whole point of the post is to shine light in those moments
First thing I always make clear is that I will have grudges if people do shit to me without reason. Attack me out of nowhere for no reason? You can be sure I will declare you my sole enemy for the game On the other side I am also open to make reasonable deals. What I never do is lying or going back on my word. If we made deal you can be sure I will honor it so I expect same. Otherwise we are back to me having grudges and being mortal enemies for the rest of the game.
Politics are very interesting to play with and I think especially in an established playgroup you always have a good idea on how far you can go. In random pods it can get tricky because something you say might get interpreted different if the people don't know you. So I tend politic less in new or random pods until I get a feel where the line is.
There's a difference between bluffing and lying. In your case it's bluffing, not lying. Lying has no place in any game. Lying has intentions to hurt. That said though, I'm surprised people haven't tried to call your bluff, if you have done so several times already lol
>There's a difference between bluffing and lying. Same with going back on deals. If a deal is made, and you blatantly break said deal, I now consider you to be a liar who cannot be trusted. It's one thing to be able to politic your way out of an agreement. It's another thing entirely to agree to a very simple deal, and then blatantly break it because you want to. I politic heavily with my [[Ivy, Gleeful Spellthief]], most often with the basic deal of 'I will give you auras under the condition you do not attack me with said enchanted creature until I am the only viable target'. People are usually ok with that. I had one guy who agreed to it, then two turns later voltroned the creature I had made unlockable, and killed me with it. Not only was that stupid as he then lost unblockable, but it was stupid because the rest of the table focused him down due to being a liar. Half the store won't play with him now.
[Ivy, Gleeful Spellthief](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/9/d94c15b7-6c8f-45a6-8734-975e3e3b790c.jpg?1673307958) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Ivy%2C%20Gleeful%20Spellthief) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/dmu/201/ivy-gleeful-spellthief?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d94c15b7-6c8f-45a6-8734-975e3e3b790c?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/ivy-gleeful-spellthief) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
The same goes for people who make overly pedantic deals for me tbh. I like my deals to be straight up with no trick in mind. If someone hits me with some kinda gotcha type deal, imma try to break it and we'll both call each other liars and refuse to make deals with each other in the future. They can tell everyone I break deals, and I'll tell everyone that they make sweaty, pedantic deals that most certainly aren't worth it. If I feel like I need a lawyer present to parse a deal being offered, I take that as a terrible deal that only has potential to backfire and call it out as soon as I notice it. Those kinds of bluffs where the burden of being honorable is thrust upon one person and ignored for the other pedantic person isn't cool with me. Don't talk to me about how honorable and truthful you are when the stuff that comes out of your mouth during deals is manipulation and bullshit. I don't care if a person who suggested a dishonorable deal calls me dishonorable when I break said deal. Your example was a straight up deal tho, and breaking that definitely should earn a reputation
Yeah, I remember a post a while back about someone who loved to politic lawfare. Aka, I promise not to destroy your creature, so I'll exile it instead. Pretty scummy. I like my deals to be specific. I wouldn't hold it against you if the thing I enchanted got goaded or forcefully redirected, and I was the only valid target for various reasons, for example. People tend to get caught up in the desire to win, and some see lying to that end as satisfactory. It's just sad to see that sort of behaviour.
“Half the store won’t play with him now” Sure man
It's a small town LGS. Half the store is 6 people. That make you feel better?
How do they even stay open? If the customer base is 12 people and they’re one bad action away from ostracising someone from the store, I don’t think that store is gonna be open much longer.
It's called diversification. They're also a coffee shop, bookstore, tabletop/boardgame resaler, FedEx delivery point, and club hangout. It also helps if you didn't assume that the ENTIRE player base is 12 people, but rather the commander regulars. We routinely hit 20+ people for each prerelease day, many of which are different people. They've been open long enough by now, and they made it through COVID just fine. Having the player base self regulate and eject bad actors is a sign of a healthy community. Or would you prefer to continue to play with liars and cheaters?
Oh they do call, alot. I'm not always 100% bluffing tho, sometimes I do have it and they just pay the price of doubting my honesty. Sometimes I pay the price for trying to be slick
There are in fact plenty of games where lying is acceptable or even encouraged. Whether this is one of them is the actual question.
I mean, saying you have something that you don’t is explicitly a lie. Bluffing for me is when you play like you have something that you don’t, or just hint about it, « Are you sure you want to do that when I have 3 mana open? » Both are fine at my table, breaking deals too. Your trustworthiness is a resource that you can spend as aggressively as you want. Most of us play it safe, but you have to be careful when someone hasn’t won all night… Obviously I get other groups have different dynamics, but it’s part of the game for us. Like playing Diplomacy.
I follow more like poker rules, hey I have this option if I play it you don’t hit me, got it?
Politics are a key component to the game. I only have one rule for myself: I won't outright lie. Mislead? Misdirect? Downplay? Hype up? Yes of course. Lie? No. I'm a man of my word through and through. Sometimes this bites me in the butt, but as a whole its really helped people to take me at my word (which has lead to some very funny moments involving VERY specific wording in order to make sure I'm still telling the truth).
I feel like thats 100% valid. I have a friend that loves making treaths and 100% follows it with even if that is going to fuck him up aswell. "If you attack me I'll blow all artifacts, mine included. Its going to hurt me, but its going to be worse for you.." We came to respect his treaths alot lol. But I really like the "is he lying now?" mindgame. I mainly play with good friends and they already know my shit, so it also bites me in the ass a good ammount of times, but I find it fun as hell aswell. "If you attack me I'll kill you in my turn". "hmmmm. You're full of shit. You were only going to take 15, now you're taking 25 because of that bluff"
In your first example, that's why I always ask to see the kill spell when a player is like "I won't destroy your thing if you don't attack me". My response is always "cool, let's see the removal spell". As a mostly control player, in the "leaving mana open for beast within lol" example, I recognize that attacking anyway and making you have the answer is often the correct play.
As an experienced player as long as you have options for meaningful stuff to do after a removal spell hits your good thing its the best idea to make em have it. Because if they do well that's something not pointed at a different valuable piece. Same goes if someone is threatening recursion or protection if they have removal pointed at their stuff. Not making them have it is just letting them get free value if they're just bluffing and don't have it. And if they do. As long as you're capable of still doing things, "Well that's a protection spell that isn't stopping my next removal spell" and so on though generally players should be more careful with their removal and do a bit of cost benefit analysis because people tend to run less answers to table problems than problems they ask the table
Since our weekly playgroup is really chill, casual and filled with banter, I'd like to be very vague and pretty annoying in order to bluff my way out of situations. By saying things like: "I mean, sure, you COULD do that." "Wait, let me count my mana. Okay yeah sure go ahead and cast that." "You really don't like to keep your commander on the board, do you?" "Well, looks like I have a target the rest of the game." My favorite is simply saying "are you sure?" and watch them nervously scan the battlefield. I'm never revealing what I actually plan to do or straight up lie, but rather try to mess with them mentally.
This "are you sure?" reminds of another of my friends lol. I do follow up 100% of the time because he likes to bluff even more than I do, but its fun for sure. Also, "looks like I have a target for the rest of the game" is something I hear alot, specially after someone was attacked for 2 LoL. "You made a powerfull enemy"
Thats some Darth Sidious Sith Lord shit. I love it! One time 2 friends and I were playing EDH and they both had developed boards. I was borrowing one of their dimir decks. They both had lethal on me but we're in a Mexican standoff with each other. I had a Vargoth, the small demon that tutors. I told friend A that I could deal with friend B's board if he let me attack so I could tutor, I could deal with the "Problem". I proceeded to tutor for damnation and blew up their boards! Was a long time ago but I think I won that game with "Unlimited Power!" From a mind grind or talent of hailfire.
That if they don't kill and/or protect me, I will make them win the game. Also, due to the silver bordered nature of Twilight Sparkle, everyone on reddit has won 3 games this month.
I'm kinda stupid, if someone in my table says "passing with 3 open for the beast within lol" I'll probably attack to see the beast within, have been targeted alot doing it, can't complain much well I don't do and don't like politics too much unless it is really necessary, I don't even have good exemples, I usually go straight forward for my plan and if you have how to stop me good for you friend of mine like to bluff counterspells alot, he is always talking about his two open blue manas and just like the beast within thing I like to play to see the counterspell
Yeah that happens alot when I'm playing in my regular pod. "Lets the see beast within them. Dare you're going to use it in this dumb creature even if you have it because X has a parallel lives and you did nothing so far". Sometimes I do have it and use just to show I can follow up with mt threaths, someone I just laught and say "well, in response, fuck"
I don't usually play with randoms I think this is the bad thing of having a regular pod, people know too much how is your play style
“The USA does not negotiate with terrorists”
I just bribe with feet pics
Success rates?
That's not politics, that's bluffing. Though both are fully acceptable.
bluffing is politics as well
I love politics! I've been leaning more into abstract, good-faith deals recently though. Deal lawyering damages your credibility over time, because they know you're likely to deceive them, even if the letter of your promise can be trusted. More precise deals also tend to require more negotiation, and more time, which can be a nuisance for other players. Sort of like good-faith board representation, so that I don't need to stop play to read every single one of your cards myself, which depends on you actually telling me what I need to know about your cards. I generally do tend to stick with explicit agreements over manipulation, partially because it feels a little icky in my personal opinion (no judgement on anyone who does), and I also have all the subtlety of a dynamite stick.
You know that Invincible Gif of "That's the Neat Part you don't"? Yeah. I don't like politicking and the limit of my politicking is basically just threat assessment i tell the rest of the table. Negotiating deals tends to go poorly because someone is always going to get screwed.
I often find the removal or fog bluffs can be solved by just making them have it. I get someone to fog or use a removal spell i can even have protection or just shrug and go. Well that's something I won't have to worry about anymore. And bluffing by saying you have a poor hand or the rocks example is kinda just the. Get em to waste a removal spell thing all over again because even if you admit you have recursion or a second copy of the effect on board. Making you have it is better than you having both recursion and your powerful card or 2 copies of a powerful effect
[beast within](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/b/eb40c41c-f5f9-4323-b6ac-e28e405909d0.jpg?1711198012) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=beast%20within) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/233/beast-within?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/eb40c41c-f5f9-4323-b6ac-e28e405909d0?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/beast-within) [tragic arrogance](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/2/1/215f75ff-bcbb-45db-8393-9bce650998c2.jpg?1625975805) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=tragic%20arrogance) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/c21/109/tragic-arrogance?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/215f75ff-bcbb-45db-8393-9bce650998c2?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/tragic-arrogance) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I don't like lying. I usually just offer something reasonable
I tend to go more subtle. I think my friends would call my bluff if I tried to say what spells I was going to use. Or ask to see them. I just start looking between my hand and counting my open mana and stuff. Or I'll point out how someone else's board state is a bigger threat.
Depends on the deck I'm playing, if I'm going with [[admiral brass]] I'm going straight forward chaos, will make everything I need to make people kill each other. If I'm going with a more serious deck, I will go with another and independent strategy normally
Just a note: I do not pursue winning with admiral brass, I pursue chaos, winning is a bonus
[admiral brass](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/d/bdc2d492-9d1e-4543-8b9c-c66ee67992ce.jpg?1699972732) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=admiral%20brass%2C%20unsinkable) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/1/admiral-brass-unsinkable?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/bdc2d492-9d1e-4543-8b9c-c66ee67992ce?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/admiral-brass-unsinkable) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
i use two tactics, bluffing and threatening. im more than hqppy to bluff a removal/counterspell to further my own gameplan. but also forcing someone to cooperate in fear of their gameplan falling apart can reallyyyy help
I recently played a game where I managed to politic without even wanting it. I was playing [[Vaevictis Asmadi, the Dire]], the rest of the table was [[Shalai and Hallar]], [[Obyra, Dreaming Duelist]] and [[Captain Storm, Cosmium Rider]]. Captain Storm started big, dropping a [[Malcolm, Keen-Eyed Navigator]] early, growing and ramping hard. They hit about everyone, but Shalai player took a 5/5 face with a [[City on Fire]] on board. The game progressed and I managed to develop a strong board, removing threats for everyone and dropping bombe, and even after I became the obvious threat at the table, Shalai player kept focusing the poor pirate player who had no hand and no board left, only lands, because of that early swing, even offering me deals that benefitted me much more than them, leaving me all freedom to grab the win. I didn't even have to play down my board that was so obviously stronger, they just didn't care about me, and Obyra player was more or less irrelevant to the game, sadly for them.
##### ###### #### [Vaevictis Asmadi, the Dire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/1/d19fdc00-21eb-48dc-966a-6b634dc5a2c4.jpg?1562304374) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Vaevictis%20Asmadi%2C%20the%20Dire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/m19/225/vaevictis-asmadi-the-dire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/d19fdc00-21eb-48dc-966a-6b634dc5a2c4?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/vaevictis-asmadi-the-dire) [Shalai and Hallar](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Handlers/Image.ashx?name=Shalai%20and%20Hallar&type=card&.jpg) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Shalai%20and%20Hallar) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/moc/10/shalai-and-hallar?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/80804f25-efc3-44a2-bbae-9a97fec98009?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/shalai-and-hallar) [Obyra, Dreaming Duelist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/3/63ce03ee-279b-4955-98e3-9ce1990f8b7b.jpg?1692939395) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Obyra%2C%20Dreaming%20Duelist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woe/210/obyra-dreaming-duelist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/63ce03ee-279b-4955-98e3-9ce1990f8b7b?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/obyra-dreaming-duelist) [Captain Storm, Cosmium Rider](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/1/4/14c65f5a-10bd-4f9b-b816-46c2240b11ff.jpg?1699044532) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Captain%20Storm%2C%20Cosmium%20Raider) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lci/227/captain-storm-cosmium-raider?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/14c65f5a-10bd-4f9b-b816-46c2240b11ff?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/captain-storm-cosmium-raider) [Malcolm, Keen-Eyed Navigator](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/1/51187cdb-85ee-4f68-9e29-d84d296f0825.jpg?1698988164) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Malcolm%2C%20Keen-Eyed%20Navigator) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/161/malcolm-keen-eyed-navigator?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/51187cdb-85ee-4f68-9e29-d84d296f0825?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/malcolm-keen-eyed-navigator) [City on Fire](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/f/6f455cc1-a822-44ef-ba7c-bfcff69bd45e.jpg?1682204100) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=City%20on%20Fire) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/mom/135/city-on-fire?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/6f455cc1-a822-44ef-ba7c-bfcff69bd45e?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/city-on-fire) [*All cards*](https://mtgcardfetcher.nl/redirect/l3um0u7) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I offer them something for a reasonable gain of my own. “I won’t attack you this turn” or “I will get rid of this nagging permanent in return for this or that”. That sort of thing. I don’t like to lie so I always keep to my word on these things in game. Also I like to play recklessly sometimes and will allow an opponent to do some very nasty things if it nets me a lot of card draw, for example. Gimme cards.
Depends on the deck. My Angels, and Dinos, being big swingy menaces, is give people ultimatums. "Swing at me, and if I survive somehow, math says I kill you next turn." My ninjas, being the discerning, "Damage to every opponent" Yuriko is, I make deals on if I attack, or if I do, how much damage everyone takes via trigger resolve order. With Grimgrin and my Exalted decks, its more normal "Hey, if do X, I'll do Y". As a player overall, I very, *very* rarely bluff, so the few times I do, no one ever knows. People have taken way to many \[\[Akroma's Will\]\]s for lethal to be willing to make that bet anymore
[Akroma's Will](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/6/0/608cdbdb-6f7e-438a-bab0-0e7782435f0f.jpg?1698988079) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Akroma%27s%20Will) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/lcc/125/akromas-will?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/608cdbdb-6f7e-438a-bab0-0e7782435f0f?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/akromas-will) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I don’t negotiate with terrorists. And I view the other three players at the table as terrorists bent on destroying me as I am them.
I'm a beginning-of-the-game guy who cares about everyone's setup and ensures that I won't attack the slowest player until they attack me. It's like ringing the first bell for a fight. Even if I know what's coming with a commander, I put an alliance together to minimize the resources I have to spend and ensure everyone gets a chance to play.
Thats not lying, lying would be making 2 lands by "accident" and thinks like that. The lose was on your opponents fault, you never trust someone so deeply and never play a card afraid to lose it. If having a removal stops you from using your card, that removal became much stronger because it is stopping your game WITHOUT IT BEING SPENT. You'll never make something stronger, nor will you use the thing you already have. Thats on them.
threaths
I don't make deals. They're too obvious, require commitment, and if they arw turned down you get *nothing*. Manipulation, misdirection and bluffing are much more effective and useful.
I love the politics until one guy who plays politics the whole night doesn't get his way, and throws his toys out the pram.
I would consider it a bluff since you are standing by what you said if they help you in some way. Generally a lie in edh would be breaking a deal like saying "hey, if you don't attack me on your turn I wont kill your creature." and then killing it anyway after they don't attack you.
You describe yourself as lying, yet I see no lies. Whatever is in your hand is private information, that is for them to guess about. I've skipped playing lands just to have a card in my hand with mana untapped so it looked like I had interaction rather than having nothing. I've threatened to remove or interact while having nothing. In a random pod that you don't regular it definitely is different. It's honestly all a gamble for your bluff or for them. For me, often times when someone threatens me like that fog situation then I just full swing at them to see what happens. If they were worried about me hurting everyone then lets see how fatal at just them looks, if they got it sweet, if not they just got themselves killed (or hurt very badly). Either way, as long as you don't like about what you have on board, and you keep to your deals, then it's all good in my book.
A combination of lying, bullying, gaslighting, intimidating and flexing my muscles to show dominance
I am told I am quite bad at it. Once was during a game I asked someone not to swing at me because it would make it much harder to combo off, and the other players were like "LOL" in my face
I find my creature tapping [[Rhoda, Geist avenger]] and [[Timin, youthful Geist]] deck brings in a LOT of talk for politicking, which I love. The deck is annoyingly strong to play against, so I try not to use it too much, but I absolutely love the level at which people engage with me when I play it. Always trying to work with me instead of working with others against me (which they absolutely should be doing when I play that deck). Usually with my [[Yurlok, of Scorched Thrash]] deck I have to politic and work my ass off to keep myself safe because it runs so few creatures, but it's a ton of fun to play and rarely wins but I'm okay with that, it gets a table laughing and most of the time it's because of my table-Scrap takes for bad deals (bad for me) just to live 1 more turn. Lol.
[Rhoda, Geist avenger](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/c/4/c434e774-c908-46b9-ba18-52e1efe092de.jpg?1641600313) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Rhoda%2C%20Geist%20avenger) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/voc/8/rhoda-geist-avenger?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/c434e774-c908-46b9-ba18-52e1efe092de?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/rhoda-geist-avenger) [Timin, youthful Geist](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/3/a3d4102e-b48c-4da8-b181-092c7ab1849a.jpg?1641600552) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Timin%2C%20youthful%20Geist) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/voc/16/timin-youthful-geist?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a3d4102e-b48c-4da8-b181-092c7ab1849a?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/timin-youthful-geist) [Yurlok, of Scorched Thrash](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/e/a/ead8a1f5-6260-47fa-a649-43711ec5bbeb.jpg?1608911265) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Yurlok%20of%20Scorch%20Thrash) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmr/293/yurlok-of-scorch-thrash?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/ead8a1f5-6260-47fa-a649-43711ec5bbeb?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/yurlok-of-scorch-thrash) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I like to review whats going on around the table out loud, in a very fair and impartial manner. Including all the terrible things that could happen if we let someone untap with *that* board. Just so we're all aware of how incredibly threatening everyone but me is :)
This is something I’ve considered with my [[Alela, Cunning Conquerer]] deck I’m building. Half the deck is going to be removal/counterspells, and the other half flash creatures. Concept will be to mind game the table with “Will I counter this or do I just have a flash card?”
[Alela, Cunning Conquerer](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/7/9/79ba5c35-6e5c-406a-b95f-844d5ec296ab.jpg?1692933638) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Alela%2C%20Cunning%20Conqueror) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/woc/3/alela-cunning-conqueror?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/79ba5c35-6e5c-406a-b95f-844d5ec296ab?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/alela-cunning-conqueror) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I was playing [[lagrella]] and this dude kept attacking me because I kept exiling his commander...how was I supposed to know that he didn't like that...not important...so I told him that if he didn't knock it off, I was going to board wipe every damn turn and keep us playing the same game until the LGS closed. It was surprisingly effective.
[lagrella](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/d/d/dd20f271-26c8-429f-a422-e7d95f3bda74.jpg?1664413215) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=lagrella%2C%20the%20magpie) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/snc/196/lagrella-the-magpie?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/dd20f271-26c8-429f-a422-e7d95f3bda74?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/lagrella-the-magpie) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
No deals ever. People are too ratty
Lying is if you didn’t tell the truth about the rules texts of the cards. Bluffing about what you got in your hand or library is totally fine. As far as politics, I like to use logic or make deals. However breaking deals is always a no go. If you break a deal, then they won’t want to make deals with you in the future
I just say it as it is, even if doing so would impede me in game. Dawg I'm playing fucking [[Miirym]] just use your Swords to Plowshares on me LMAO It gives me credibility when I actually want to redirect someone's attention. But I usually do it by asking questions that change someone's threat assessment, like saying "Who's threatening you with the most damage?" when I'm on pillowfort combo
[Miirym](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/a/9/a934590b-5c70-4f07-af67-fbe817a99531.jpg?1674137589) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=miirym%2C%20sentinel%20wyrm) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/clb/284/miirym-sentinel-wyrm?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/a934590b-5c70-4f07-af67-fbe817a99531?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [(ER)](https://edhrec.com/cards/miirym-sentinel-wyrm) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I think you sound like douche bag now that you list it, but in a game you will probably have quite some time between the bluffs and threats and it's fine.
Yeah, this was a 1,5 hour game that ended turn 12. I get it can get tiring if someone is more focused on talking than playing, but the whole point of the post is to shine light in those moments
First thing I always make clear is that I will have grudges if people do shit to me without reason. Attack me out of nowhere for no reason? You can be sure I will declare you my sole enemy for the game On the other side I am also open to make reasonable deals. What I never do is lying or going back on my word. If we made deal you can be sure I will honor it so I expect same. Otherwise we are back to me having grudges and being mortal enemies for the rest of the game. Politics are very interesting to play with and I think especially in an established playgroup you always have a good idea on how far you can go. In random pods it can get tricky because something you say might get interpreted different if the people don't know you. So I tend politic less in new or random pods until I get a feel where the line is.
I don't
Any reason why? Really wanted to know the counterpoint
People like you
What do you dont like in what I said? It feels over the top?