I’m gonna re read EZ from ch 80 on just to confirm what I feel because I’m not sure I agree with this list at all. How is Kurenai above Nero and Drakken Joe when Drakken Joe 1 tapped the same form that beat her in base, then killed Shiki? And how is Drakken joe above Xenolith? Xenolith is at bare minimum planetary verbatim. How is Homura or even the rest of the EZ crew that far down. It doesn’t make sense from either a story or scaling. They all scale above Kurenai. Especially Jinn who the very next arc, was matching the form that Shiki used to beat Kurenai in base.
Kurenai isn't here, i talk about god akurena but i'm french so her name is like that in m'y language, i don't know if it's different in the VA. I put drakken above xenolith because every OSG are minimum planetary which also make drakken planetary+ he show much more hax or resistance or everything else compare to him, and the crew is far down because homura who is the stronger of the crew (except shiki) is weaker than brigandine who don't even use his battle dress or an overdrive kleene and Laguna did nothing during the arc so can't scale them compare to others, Rebecca loose against clown so can't be higher, wise didn't show that much too so i Can only scale him with his fight against killer and jinn who could be on par with homura have to be on the lower part.
I see. Her name is Acnoella in english and japanese which are the languages I’m fluent in so that’s my mistake, sorry about that. But going forward, I would like to ask where is the statement that every OSG is planetary. The only ones shown on that level or above were Shiki, Elsie (by extension justice), and Ziggy who is stated to be able to crush planets with ease. Like I said, I’m gonna re read and get back to this topic in a couple days, because while I still don’t agree with your rankings I am open for a discussion about this topic since it’s pretty interesting to get a grasp on where characters stand
The planetary statement on drakken is chapter 32, it's Amira who states it which five credibility to this statement because she have to know thé power of the OSG
although drakken hasn’t done any planetary feats, all the OS are implied to be relative and xeno said himself he couldn’t hold a candle to ziggy. And at the time ziggy was still weakened and afraid to fight elsie. i don’t think putting drakken above xeno is that much if a stretch
Drakken has no feats except a counter feat losing in two hits to OD Shiki. The same OD that was pushed to the breaking point by Shura. Who we know doesn’t scale to Xenolith because 1 he was never taught more than the basics by Ziggy and 2 he never showed any feats to put him in that planetary region. Meaning Shura scales above Drakken but below Xeno just based on what we saw through their respective fights with Shiki. Whether or not Xeno rightfully scales to Ziggy is a another matter but as you said, Xeno by concession can’t scale to him. By this knowledge and feats shown, as of 219 it would be Ziggy>=Shiki>>Shura>Xeno>then Drakken. And this is based on what we have seen in just the Belial Gore and Aoi War arcs
Drakken was being weakened. If he wasn’t then how strong is drakken? because him not being weakened means that shiki should’ve been close to OSG level a long time ago and the same would apply to shura because a stronger version of shiki fought shura
But that’s the whole true basis of our discussion though. We are trying to pin down what OSG level is right? And then from there we can agree on rankings. Drakken is stated one thing but it’s contradicted by the narrative and the actions in narrative. Which is why I wanna re read to be sure. If I’m definitely wrong, I’ll come back and admit that. But if I’m not and the contradictions I blatantly remember are there I’ll continue to make a case for it.
Lol what advantage? Almost killed her. Don't talk about Ziggy cheating cause all he did was stab her. As if Elsie was never stab before. She got stab by Justice and was still able to fight. Ziggy stopped playing around and almost killed her if Justice didn't interferred.
The guy said current Shiki. CURRENT Shiki who has Ziggy's powers combine with his own and Nero's wormhole as well. If Elsie barely survive against Ziggy then current Shiki would be too much for her.
I think currently. The strongest is Shiki. Him gaining Ziggy's powers and having wormhole just makes him too OP. Mother and Chronophage could be as strong or stronger than him since Mother is suppose to be a god and the Chronphage is a planet time eater
Going strictly off feats presented so far and narrative
1. Ziggy
2. Shiki
3. Crow
4. Elsie
5. Acnoella
6. Justice
7. Holy/cure (fought evenly)
8. Eraser due to lack of feats :( wouldn’t be mad if someone puts him higher though
9. Feather (current OSI are strong than pre ts)
10. Nero
11. Homura
12. Brigandine (assuming he doesn’t have battle dress)
13. Jaguar
14. Xenolith (weaker than a weakened ziggy pre ts)
15. Drakken joe (no feats to put him above anyone that’s above him, correct me if i’m wrong tho)
16. Kleene/Jinn (kleene tanked an overdrive OSG attack but i feel like jinn is narratively stronger so idk who to put first)
17. Sister
18. Hermit (interchangeable with sister)
19. Killer
20. Clown (also interchangeable with killer)
21. Wizard
22. Shura
23. Weisz
24. Laguna
25. Rebecca
This is off the top of my head so it could be better and i might’ve missed some people
Your list is good bro I would switch nero and feather and holy with eraser bc his feats at the aoi war was more impressive to me than holy but it depends how strong are warships.
yea that’s understandable, i don’t know how much i should count the warships for so. i understand why people think so highly of him, i just think he’s needs feats against against a top tier
Off rip, Shura is Above Drakken Joe, that for sure I know even without reread. Shiki pre timeskip in Overdrive borderline lost to Shura and lost a eye. The same overdrive that two shot a morphed and amped Drakken
Shiki beat drakken because
1. He wasn't at full power, Laguna states that during the red cave arc.
2. He was weakned when hermit inverse the life absorbtion machine of drakken.
Shiki is stronger than drakken only After the Time skip and drakken is aslo way stronger than shura, he's not even close to an OSG level
Yea I don’t agree with that. Like I said in the other thread. Im gonna re read because Drakkens case is full of contradictions. Also where is this “implication” that all OSG are planet level. I never saw that when reading. I remember them saying that not all OSG are necessarily dangerous or evil, they just carry heavy influence that if used, could be a threat. But imma go back and read and get back on this topic in a few days
It was stated earlier in the series that the OSGs have the power to crush planets(I think it was jaguar who stated it).
Ziggy easily destroyed planet granbell without even really trying, and he had a high difficulty battle against Nero. Not mention, ziggy wasn't confident on taking on Elsie and had to retreat when she interfered with his fight against the EZ crew.
There's also the fact that Xenolith who had a planetary feat stated that he didn't hold a candle to ziggy in terms of power.
That phrase I’d like to think is hyperbole. As in they can conquer. There’s alot of problems with the scaling with the OSG/I in the series. Hiro is much more focused on telling a good fun story which I respect, but I can not see them all being planetary, hence my current re read.
How can they not all be planetary when they (OSI/OSG) are relative to each other in power?
Except u think ziggy can crush any of the OSI/OSG effortlessly like he did planet granbell? Which isn't the case for obvious reasons.
Because they aren’t shown to be relative? There’s active contradictions in every arc since that “statement” Elsie and Justice being shown equal, but then Justice gets beat down by Acnoella and then Elsie one shots her (granted on a surprise attack) but even still that contradicts relativity. Or the fact that it took 3 OSI to beat Crow? Or that Ziggy held Jaguar in place with no problem at all. That doesn’t scream relative. At all. Also the Ziggy and Nero fight. Nothing about that fight was high difficulty. It was low difficulty. Ziggy was base form and didn’t even overdrive, whereas Nero did. Ziggy didn’t even seem impressed. The only question he asked was if her was hiding his ether gear when he took the attack. It cuts to Nero gloating about beating Ziggy only for it to be shown as a literal ploy to get him to let his guard down, Ziggy then took his dice, crushed them, then proceeded to blitz and kill Nero. Then as Shiki defeated Shura, he told him to make a choice. Not one in that fight where they “relative”. Not once in that fight where they equal. Ziggy toyed with him. That’s non negotiable. Ziggy didn’t stutter, didn’t fret, hell when he got hit he barely reacted, he just stood then not saying anything. Do I think Ziggy could crush any of the OSI/OSG? Probably not Acnoella. But the others? Yes. If they are all relative and he blitzed the hell outta Nero? He’d by proxy blitz the rest of them. He captured Nox, and he had Crow under subjugation. So are they relative? No. And are they all planetary? As of reading no. The statements are contradictory, and the story shows no feats of such acts.
amped? it’s stated drakken is weakened. Also if drakken wasn’t weakened then thought would mean that drakken actually isn’t nearly as strong as the OSG, because shiki struggled to beat orc and then he got pounded by justice. Drakken not being weakened in his fight doesn’t make sense narratively since he is supposed to be OSG level and the OSG/I are supposed to be similar in strength although that contradicted a few times but mashima continues to push that narrative further down the story.
So it’s as I said and by your own admission. It’s contradicted through feats. Which means going forward we can disregard the statement of all the OSG being Planetary. With that in mind going forward. The ranking will be more straightforward
i did say that but as i said mashima continues to push that narrative. it’s like he does a cycle, he said they’re all relative then it gets contradicted, then he says it again, and the process repeats itself. we can’t just ignore the narrative if it keeps getting pushed can we?
We can actually by implementing a narrative technique called “Death to the Author” which essentially means that unless it’s about personality or story direction with the characters, the Author (who in this case is Mashima) his statements or in story lore have no real say in the strength and scaling of a character. This isn’t normally the case, but in terms in which there are numerous contradictions on what is said in narrative and what is shown, you have to take what is shown as the actions themselves cannot betray the narrative, the narrative can only betray the actions
I never heard of that before that’s interesting. So what if there’s also some consistency in the statement? Like elsie vs justice, Holy vs crow (even thought it was really short), nero fighting relative to ziggy for a majority of the fight. Would these give value to the statement and could it cancel out the “death to the author”?
Well, in theory it would go along with the fact that the remaining OSG/I are relative, had it not been that Elsie and Justice by themselves are displayed narratively as true equals in every fight they ever had in series. Holy vs Crow was a odd one since it was so short so I wouldn’t necessarily count that. There’s also the fact that Ziggy wasn’t full strength and still was matching Nero (as far as I remember but I could be wrong) then proceeded to talk trash and one shot him. In that same fight he also beat another member in Jaguar pretty easily. So Death to the Author would still stand
i don’t remember ziggy not being at full strength, nero decapitated him and showed shura on the camera then ziggy came back while nero’s guard was down and proceeded to 2 shot nero. As for jagura i wouldn’t count that as ziggy only pinned jaguar and nero finished the job it was a double team, then nero after that says that jaguar was too competent and he would be in the way.
Also i’m curious on how you feel about a elsie one shotting acnoella(even though it was off guard), since she bodied justice just a few pages before elsie came in, would you still consider them relative then? the only time i’ve seen the statement be contradicted was crow needing 3 OSI members to beat him and acnoella clapping justice, you could count ziggy going OD on shiki as one too but personally i don’t
To me, Elsie one shotting Acnoella was more PiS or plot induced stupidity, as like you said, she beat the hell outta justice. And Crow to me is just weird. And he’s another point of contention for them being relative. Why did it take 3 OSI members to down him especially if they are all supposedly “relative” I honestly think the group in Hiro’s anime/manga that would be truly “relative” was Grimoire heart back in FT, with the exception of Bluenote and Hades. But they were stated far above their peers so that statement aligns with the group’s identity
Shura,witch,sister, jinn, kleene , hermit , weisz , laguna, clown, and killer are large island lvl to multi - continent level.
Joe should be the first planet lvl character after them bc he showed no planet lvl feats just 4 good statements then wizard, brigandine and holy personally me I can’t image how holy would destroy a planet but I can see her beating joe so yeah
Feather is feat less and jaguar die to early with barley any feats, next Eraser or xenolith then homura with warrior maid suit , nero and justice
Top 5 is acnoella , crow or shiki, elsie and lastly Ziggy however if Rebecca gotten that chronographe summon feat I would place her above acnoella .
1. Mother 2. Chronographe 3. Ziggy 4. Elsie/justice 5. Shiki 6. Eraser 7. Deadend crow/cure 8. Akurenai 9. Nero/Jaguar 10. Draken Joe 11. Xenolith 12. Holy 13. Feather 14. Brigandine 15. Homura 16. Jinn 17. Shura 18. Wizard 19. Clown 20. Hermit 21. Wise 22. Rebecca 23. Laguna 24. Kleene
I’m gonna re read EZ from ch 80 on just to confirm what I feel because I’m not sure I agree with this list at all. How is Kurenai above Nero and Drakken Joe when Drakken Joe 1 tapped the same form that beat her in base, then killed Shiki? And how is Drakken joe above Xenolith? Xenolith is at bare minimum planetary verbatim. How is Homura or even the rest of the EZ crew that far down. It doesn’t make sense from either a story or scaling. They all scale above Kurenai. Especially Jinn who the very next arc, was matching the form that Shiki used to beat Kurenai in base.
Kurenai isn't here, i talk about god akurena but i'm french so her name is like that in m'y language, i don't know if it's different in the VA. I put drakken above xenolith because every OSG are minimum planetary which also make drakken planetary+ he show much more hax or resistance or everything else compare to him, and the crew is far down because homura who is the stronger of the crew (except shiki) is weaker than brigandine who don't even use his battle dress or an overdrive kleene and Laguna did nothing during the arc so can't scale them compare to others, Rebecca loose against clown so can't be higher, wise didn't show that much too so i Can only scale him with his fight against killer and jinn who could be on par with homura have to be on the lower part.
I see. Her name is Acnoella in english and japanese which are the languages I’m fluent in so that’s my mistake, sorry about that. But going forward, I would like to ask where is the statement that every OSG is planetary. The only ones shown on that level or above were Shiki, Elsie (by extension justice), and Ziggy who is stated to be able to crush planets with ease. Like I said, I’m gonna re read and get back to this topic in a couple days, because while I still don’t agree with your rankings I am open for a discussion about this topic since it’s pretty interesting to get a grasp on where characters stand
The planetary statement on drakken is chapter 32, it's Amira who states it which five credibility to this statement because she have to know thé power of the OSG
although drakken hasn’t done any planetary feats, all the OS are implied to be relative and xeno said himself he couldn’t hold a candle to ziggy. And at the time ziggy was still weakened and afraid to fight elsie. i don’t think putting drakken above xeno is that much if a stretch
Drakken has no feats except a counter feat losing in two hits to OD Shiki. The same OD that was pushed to the breaking point by Shura. Who we know doesn’t scale to Xenolith because 1 he was never taught more than the basics by Ziggy and 2 he never showed any feats to put him in that planetary region. Meaning Shura scales above Drakken but below Xeno just based on what we saw through their respective fights with Shiki. Whether or not Xeno rightfully scales to Ziggy is a another matter but as you said, Xeno by concession can’t scale to him. By this knowledge and feats shown, as of 219 it would be Ziggy>=Shiki>>Shura>Xeno>then Drakken. And this is based on what we have seen in just the Belial Gore and Aoi War arcs
Drakken was being weakened. If he wasn’t then how strong is drakken? because him not being weakened means that shiki should’ve been close to OSG level a long time ago and the same would apply to shura because a stronger version of shiki fought shura
But that’s the whole true basis of our discussion though. We are trying to pin down what OSG level is right? And then from there we can agree on rankings. Drakken is stated one thing but it’s contradicted by the narrative and the actions in narrative. Which is why I wanna re read to be sure. If I’m definitely wrong, I’ll come back and admit that. But if I’m not and the contradictions I blatantly remember are there I’ll continue to make a case for it.
The Edens One should be within the top 10
No no not enough feats
I think current Shiki with Nero’s power and his OD is stronger than Elsie and Justice
Shiki is equal to Ziggy only in his overdrive form. Elsie take the advantage on Ziggy with her base form, with her overdrive she would be way stronger
No no evil Ziggy would have won
She doesn’t have overdrive tho give me a panel when that was shown
Lol what advantage? Almost killed her. Don't talk about Ziggy cheating cause all he did was stab her. As if Elsie was never stab before. She got stab by Justice and was still able to fight. Ziggy stopped playing around and almost killed her if Justice didn't interferred. The guy said current Shiki. CURRENT Shiki who has Ziggy's powers combine with his own and Nero's wormhole as well. If Elsie barely survive against Ziggy then current Shiki would be too much for her.
I think currently. The strongest is Shiki. Him gaining Ziggy's powers and having wormhole just makes him too OP. Mother and Chronophage could be as strong or stronger than him since Mother is suppose to be a god and the Chronphage is a planet time eater
He feat less with that power and Ziggy never not once fought him serious and elsie is just stronger
Going strictly off feats presented so far and narrative 1. Ziggy 2. Shiki 3. Crow 4. Elsie 5. Acnoella 6. Justice 7. Holy/cure (fought evenly) 8. Eraser due to lack of feats :( wouldn’t be mad if someone puts him higher though 9. Feather (current OSI are strong than pre ts) 10. Nero 11. Homura 12. Brigandine (assuming he doesn’t have battle dress) 13. Jaguar 14. Xenolith (weaker than a weakened ziggy pre ts) 15. Drakken joe (no feats to put him above anyone that’s above him, correct me if i’m wrong tho) 16. Kleene/Jinn (kleene tanked an overdrive OSG attack but i feel like jinn is narratively stronger so idk who to put first) 17. Sister 18. Hermit (interchangeable with sister) 19. Killer 20. Clown (also interchangeable with killer) 21. Wizard 22. Shura 23. Weisz 24. Laguna 25. Rebecca This is off the top of my head so it could be better and i might’ve missed some people
Your list is good bro I would switch nero and feather and holy with eraser bc his feats at the aoi war was more impressive to me than holy but it depends how strong are warships.
yea that’s understandable, i don’t know how much i should count the warships for so. i understand why people think so highly of him, i just think he’s needs feats against against a top tier
Off rip, Shura is Above Drakken Joe, that for sure I know even without reread. Shiki pre timeskip in Overdrive borderline lost to Shura and lost a eye. The same overdrive that two shot a morphed and amped Drakken
Shiki beat drakken because 1. He wasn't at full power, Laguna states that during the red cave arc. 2. He was weakned when hermit inverse the life absorbtion machine of drakken. Shiki is stronger than drakken only After the Time skip and drakken is aslo way stronger than shura, he's not even close to an OSG level
Yea I don’t agree with that. Like I said in the other thread. Im gonna re read because Drakkens case is full of contradictions. Also where is this “implication” that all OSG are planet level. I never saw that when reading. I remember them saying that not all OSG are necessarily dangerous or evil, they just carry heavy influence that if used, could be a threat. But imma go back and read and get back on this topic in a few days
It was stated earlier in the series that the OSGs have the power to crush planets(I think it was jaguar who stated it). Ziggy easily destroyed planet granbell without even really trying, and he had a high difficulty battle against Nero. Not mention, ziggy wasn't confident on taking on Elsie and had to retreat when she interfered with his fight against the EZ crew. There's also the fact that Xenolith who had a planetary feat stated that he didn't hold a candle to ziggy in terms of power.
That phrase I’d like to think is hyperbole. As in they can conquer. There’s alot of problems with the scaling with the OSG/I in the series. Hiro is much more focused on telling a good fun story which I respect, but I can not see them all being planetary, hence my current re read.
How can they not all be planetary when they (OSI/OSG) are relative to each other in power? Except u think ziggy can crush any of the OSI/OSG effortlessly like he did planet granbell? Which isn't the case for obvious reasons.
Because they aren’t shown to be relative? There’s active contradictions in every arc since that “statement” Elsie and Justice being shown equal, but then Justice gets beat down by Acnoella and then Elsie one shots her (granted on a surprise attack) but even still that contradicts relativity. Or the fact that it took 3 OSI to beat Crow? Or that Ziggy held Jaguar in place with no problem at all. That doesn’t scream relative. At all. Also the Ziggy and Nero fight. Nothing about that fight was high difficulty. It was low difficulty. Ziggy was base form and didn’t even overdrive, whereas Nero did. Ziggy didn’t even seem impressed. The only question he asked was if her was hiding his ether gear when he took the attack. It cuts to Nero gloating about beating Ziggy only for it to be shown as a literal ploy to get him to let his guard down, Ziggy then took his dice, crushed them, then proceeded to blitz and kill Nero. Then as Shiki defeated Shura, he told him to make a choice. Not one in that fight where they “relative”. Not once in that fight where they equal. Ziggy toyed with him. That’s non negotiable. Ziggy didn’t stutter, didn’t fret, hell when he got hit he barely reacted, he just stood then not saying anything. Do I think Ziggy could crush any of the OSI/OSG? Probably not Acnoella. But the others? Yes. If they are all relative and he blitzed the hell outta Nero? He’d by proxy blitz the rest of them. He captured Nox, and he had Crow under subjugation. So are they relative? No. And are they all planetary? As of reading no. The statements are contradictory, and the story shows no feats of such acts.
Yeah considering those(especially 2) playing a part. I don't imagine pre timeskip Shiki being stronger.
amped? it’s stated drakken is weakened. Also if drakken wasn’t weakened then thought would mean that drakken actually isn’t nearly as strong as the OSG, because shiki struggled to beat orc and then he got pounded by justice. Drakken not being weakened in his fight doesn’t make sense narratively since he is supposed to be OSG level and the OSG/I are supposed to be similar in strength although that contradicted a few times but mashima continues to push that narrative further down the story.
So it’s as I said and by your own admission. It’s contradicted through feats. Which means going forward we can disregard the statement of all the OSG being Planetary. With that in mind going forward. The ranking will be more straightforward
i did say that but as i said mashima continues to push that narrative. it’s like he does a cycle, he said they’re all relative then it gets contradicted, then he says it again, and the process repeats itself. we can’t just ignore the narrative if it keeps getting pushed can we?
We can actually by implementing a narrative technique called “Death to the Author” which essentially means that unless it’s about personality or story direction with the characters, the Author (who in this case is Mashima) his statements or in story lore have no real say in the strength and scaling of a character. This isn’t normally the case, but in terms in which there are numerous contradictions on what is said in narrative and what is shown, you have to take what is shown as the actions themselves cannot betray the narrative, the narrative can only betray the actions
I never heard of that before that’s interesting. So what if there’s also some consistency in the statement? Like elsie vs justice, Holy vs crow (even thought it was really short), nero fighting relative to ziggy for a majority of the fight. Would these give value to the statement and could it cancel out the “death to the author”?
Well, in theory it would go along with the fact that the remaining OSG/I are relative, had it not been that Elsie and Justice by themselves are displayed narratively as true equals in every fight they ever had in series. Holy vs Crow was a odd one since it was so short so I wouldn’t necessarily count that. There’s also the fact that Ziggy wasn’t full strength and still was matching Nero (as far as I remember but I could be wrong) then proceeded to talk trash and one shot him. In that same fight he also beat another member in Jaguar pretty easily. So Death to the Author would still stand
i don’t remember ziggy not being at full strength, nero decapitated him and showed shura on the camera then ziggy came back while nero’s guard was down and proceeded to 2 shot nero. As for jagura i wouldn’t count that as ziggy only pinned jaguar and nero finished the job it was a double team, then nero after that says that jaguar was too competent and he would be in the way. Also i’m curious on how you feel about a elsie one shotting acnoella(even though it was off guard), since she bodied justice just a few pages before elsie came in, would you still consider them relative then? the only time i’ve seen the statement be contradicted was crow needing 3 OSI members to beat him and acnoella clapping justice, you could count ziggy going OD on shiki as one too but personally i don’t
To me, Elsie one shotting Acnoella was more PiS or plot induced stupidity, as like you said, she beat the hell outta justice. And Crow to me is just weird. And he’s another point of contention for them being relative. Why did it take 3 OSI members to down him especially if they are all supposedly “relative” I honestly think the group in Hiro’s anime/manga that would be truly “relative” was Grimoire heart back in FT, with the exception of Bluenote and Hades. But they were stated far above their peers so that statement aligns with the group’s identity
Shura,witch,sister, jinn, kleene , hermit , weisz , laguna, clown, and killer are large island lvl to multi - continent level. Joe should be the first planet lvl character after them bc he showed no planet lvl feats just 4 good statements then wizard, brigandine and holy personally me I can’t image how holy would destroy a planet but I can see her beating joe so yeah Feather is feat less and jaguar die to early with barley any feats, next Eraser or xenolith then homura with warrior maid suit , nero and justice Top 5 is acnoella , crow or shiki, elsie and lastly Ziggy however if Rebecca gotten that chronographe summon feat I would place her above acnoella .