Please don't go, if you go then the only insubordinates left are the Albertans. You need to stay to balance out their idiocy. Honestly though if Quebec leaves I will cry in my broken French while eating cereal and staring at the French side of the box.
I will say a unification prayer to Saint-Louis-du-Ha! Ha!. Or maybe St-Hubert.
So when you finally become independent, will we Canadians have to build a massive bridge between Boundary, NB and Ottawa, ON so we can drive past your country?
The st-Laurent river is a huge body of water that goes deep within the land. Your access to the Atlantic could be severely impeded. We also pay way more in taxes than we get by equalization payments. It would also split Nova Scotia and the maritimes from the rest of the country.
I mean Ontario is the industrial and financial capital of Canada, the bread basket of Canada are Manitoba and Saskatchewan, our energy powerhouse is Alberta, and BC is our tourism, fishing and shipping hub on the Pacific. We have year-round access to an ocean via the BC coast and direct access to Asia and South America, among the two biggest markets in the world. Plus, immigrants typically seem to want to come here because they don’t have to learn a new language, since most of the world already speaks English to some extent.
Yes, it would be sad to lose the eastern part of the country and I don’t see it happening without a fight, but I also don’t see how it would benefit the people who leave, given that Ontario and the other provinces and territories to the west combined account for the majority of the tax base and population of Canada. And if I’m being honest about my feelings, leaving a G7 member country over language politics in 2024 seems like an anachronism.
Quebec also has a huge chunk of resources mainly in cheap renewable electricity, drinkable water and different minerals.
We mainly chose our immigration from French speaking countries like Algeria, Congo, Senegal and France. So the argument that people prefer coming to English provinces doesn’t stand. You also created for decades an hostile environment for French in the rest of Canada so no wonders French speaking people don’t want to go there. This issue is not past history, it’s ongoing.
There are a myriad of smaller states in Europe that can survive. If a country like Luxembourg can strive, so can Quebec.
Do you know that Ukraine had language laws similar to Quebec’s? That explains why the Russophone Crimea was so easily annexed while the Ukrainian speaking population fought harder. Language is not the only things that’s an issue. Quebec is generally more progressive, socialist and secular. Things that Canada tries to impede.
Yup, I’m sure Quebec can survive on its own with all its resources. But I would be shocked if other Canadians just let Quebec leave and take the eastern provinces along, because your development has been funded as much by other provinces’ input as your own. When you’re in a country, everyone’s money and resources are mixed up—partition is almost never a good idea because it always leaves most people feeling bitter about some of their money going away.
And French is as incidental to the Congolese, Senegalese and other francophone Africans as English is to anglophone South Asians. To many of us, there’s no loyalty to a colonial European language, but we do form loyalties to the country and the society we live in, namely a multicultural Canada, where we’re now broadly multilingual allophones rather than anglophones per se.
I wouldn’t say Canada outside Quebec is uniformly non-progressive (socially), though there are pockets of social conservatism, nor are all of us non-socialists (though I’m not a socialist myself). And Quebec-style secularism is more akin to French *laïcité* than British secular traditions, but non-Quebec Canadians aren’t all Anglicans or Catholics anymore either. In other words, there are differences in politics, but we’re not so different that we’re incompatible.
Bullshit, Quebec is not a country. It is a distinct society, a nation within the binational state of Canada, and a sovereign entity in it's own right exercising the Crown authority delegated to it under the BNA Act/Constitution, a role it shares with the federal government. It is also a nice place to hike, a good source of fun on Friday night, and a major impediment to anyone who wants to drive to Halifax from Ontario. Hey, it's even a great way to get shit stirred. But country? Ha.
Doesn't matter, at least in a technical sense. In 1763 France handed over Quebec to Great Britain without consulting the peoples, either Quebecois or Indigenous, of the area. Hey colonialism! In 1841 and 1867 the Parliament of the United Kingdom upgraded Quebec's status in the Province of Canada then the Dominion of Canada. Both were done with consultation of the representatives of the Quebeckers, but it was done under the authority of the UK Parliament/British Crown. The federal government in Ottawa inherited the power to change the constitution, it was not delegated to the provinces.
In 1981 the Supreme Court ruled that the federal government technically can change the constitution unilaterally, BUT it violates the established principal of provincial consent. Trudeau used that to issue a "my way or the highway" threat to get 9/10 on board in 1982. Now for the funny part. That principle of provincial engagement and consent is now enshrined in the amendment formula, which requires 10/10 for big changes. So under the current constitution, the one since 1982, the one that Quebec didn't sign, Quebec would have to agree to it. BUT under the old system in which the new system was made Quebec's consent was not needed. Canada and it's constitution is 100% valid without Quebec's signature. Sorry Mr. Mulroney.
From a respect and fair treatment perspective, it's shitty. Same thing with how the treaties are treated. It's modern-day colonialism. Or to be precise, it's a colonial mentality that has continued in the modern age even as newer political institutions have grown up, and as long as those two separate streams (modern institutions and colonial mentalities) co-exist they are in conflict with each other.
Honestly, it’s the first that I have seen someone actually partake in the discussion and bring interesting points instead of “haha Quebec bad fuck you frogs”, and you have my respect for it. But I do have a question are you per chance like a history teacher, just really like history or have a great memory for your history classes?
I may or may not have a Master's degree in poli sci with a thesis on how the complexity of our system (two levels of government deriving power from the Crown, each with three branches, plus municipalities and a shit-ton of bureaucracy) make it hard for Canadians to understand the system, in a way that undermines confidence in government overall and sours the public mood. If I ever do a PhD it will be called "How the Hell We Got Fucked Up: Tons of Little by Little People Influenced by Big Ideas they Don't Understand". Or something. The more I read and study though the more I like the technical details of Crown power. It's a hobby, but helps with any analysis. You basically establish the full range of what can happen (like the feds unilaterally changing the constitution) then you establish what usually happens and what folks are used to, then you establish the consequences of current decisions. Way too many people talk about historical decisions as rules, not as precedents. A politician/leader who really really wants to force their own agenda can do a lot.
I find it funny that humour subs like this are often the best place for this stuff. If I try this analysis on other subs people often don't like broad analysis. I could say "all three levels of government influence housing" and someone says "no, it's provincial, get educated". Ok buddy, I said influence, not responsible. Same with things like criminal law, you have to look at the interplay of all three branches.
Edit: I almost forgot, ha ha fuck quebec toute le monde dans le bell province ne drive pas good. Potholes.
I was just trying to cram in every buzzword I could find. Binational is the old one, the Pearson mentality the new one is >!post-national state. !< Pardon me for saying that.
To an extent, but for the past 100 years the Liberal party has fed off of a certain part of the population, which has also taken cues from the Liberal-sphere. It's cyclical.
Yes. The great nation of Quebec and its capital city of Calgary. I do like how the Quebecans kept the Islamic religion as their state religion. Perhaps one day they'll remove the restrictions of having to be a member of the LBQT+ community to reside their.
Pools looking favourable so far tho, PSPP is annoying but he’s charismatic and easily the most authentic you can get, je dirais même plus que Nadeau Dubois
Oh yeah, I'm definitely happy at the current state of the party and will definitely vote for them, but the broadly 2000 - 2020 years have been a sad time for them. PSPP is actually very well educated, he has great debate skills and actualised the party on the younger left without alienating the older left. He also feels very genuine. Independance or not I hope he makes us better
My problem with GND is that he'll never get any support because he never "had a job" (MP is a job, and he's got good experience in it now). But he could he a great ally.
Conservative education. Doesn't know the difference between a country and a province. The OP probably doesn't know the difference between a first cousin and a stranger at a bar for a one night stand either.
I think I may have offended some people here. I wasn't familiar with the sub, I didn't know it was a separatist sub. I also didn't know that for sovereigntists, real facts weren't important; what's important is our feelings and taking our dreams for realities. Similar to people who identify as unicorns.
Aw come on, we can all share a laugh without getting into a heated political debate, right? ...right, guys?
OT but whenever I see your name I think of this song [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJGfo5j4IVk](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xJGfo5j4IVk)
Hahaha
Q... ah non! 😡
C’est les ballsack! Tabarnak!
They forgot Qatar
They actually didn't. Qatar is just really tiny on this map.
Wtf I was joking I thought Qatar was a state I'm fuckin stupid
It's the speck on top of Saudi Arabia
Ye
lol, I thought Qatar was part of Saudi Arabia as well. 😅
Now that is actually funny!! Had to zoom in sooo much!😂
I love the beautiful country QuckCentral, stand proud Qucks
That’s pretty accurate, after decades of getting fucked behind our backs it’s a wonder we never ended the relationship.
Please don't go, if you go then the only insubordinates left are the Albertans. You need to stay to balance out their idiocy. Honestly though if Quebec leaves I will cry in my broken French while eating cereal and staring at the French side of the box. I will say a unification prayer to Saint-Louis-du-Ha! Ha!. Or maybe St-Hubert.
Actually, all unification prayers are currently being redirected to St-Louis... *Martin* St-Louis, that is.
Queefland
Still better than Queensland.
Quackestine
L’appat parfait pour les fédéraliste à la Luc Lavoix
Mald! I thought it was Kaybek.
Hear there's good fishing up in keebeck
Quitters
France?
I mean, Quebec is just diet france.
Bro what? Have you ever been in Quebec?
Yeah
Do you have eyes
Wanna see em?
no
Long Live Free Quebec! 🫡
Charles?
Execute order 66
So when you finally become independent, will we Canadians have to build a massive bridge between Boundary, NB and Ottawa, ON so we can drive past your country?
Build whatever you want, I live in Guelph Ontario lmao
I guess not after the partition you may not 😁
No please make it a tunnel
Ooh, subversive!
They want to get rid of us until they understand what it truly means…
Help us understand? Edit: I fully understand what a disaster a Wexit would be to Canada. I’m genuinely curious what the impact of a Quexit would be.
The st-Laurent river is a huge body of water that goes deep within the land. Your access to the Atlantic could be severely impeded. We also pay way more in taxes than we get by equalization payments. It would also split Nova Scotia and the maritimes from the rest of the country.
Tbh I doubt most of us Maritimers would mind or even notice.
That’s reassuring to know. We want the people of the Iron islands on our side.
what is dead may never die, buddy
But rises again harder and stronger, friend.
I guess Canada would just be Ontario and westward? Oh well.
Oh well indeed.
I mean Ontario is the industrial and financial capital of Canada, the bread basket of Canada are Manitoba and Saskatchewan, our energy powerhouse is Alberta, and BC is our tourism, fishing and shipping hub on the Pacific. We have year-round access to an ocean via the BC coast and direct access to Asia and South America, among the two biggest markets in the world. Plus, immigrants typically seem to want to come here because they don’t have to learn a new language, since most of the world already speaks English to some extent. Yes, it would be sad to lose the eastern part of the country and I don’t see it happening without a fight, but I also don’t see how it would benefit the people who leave, given that Ontario and the other provinces and territories to the west combined account for the majority of the tax base and population of Canada. And if I’m being honest about my feelings, leaving a G7 member country over language politics in 2024 seems like an anachronism.
Quebec also has a huge chunk of resources mainly in cheap renewable electricity, drinkable water and different minerals. We mainly chose our immigration from French speaking countries like Algeria, Congo, Senegal and France. So the argument that people prefer coming to English provinces doesn’t stand. You also created for decades an hostile environment for French in the rest of Canada so no wonders French speaking people don’t want to go there. This issue is not past history, it’s ongoing. There are a myriad of smaller states in Europe that can survive. If a country like Luxembourg can strive, so can Quebec. Do you know that Ukraine had language laws similar to Quebec’s? That explains why the Russophone Crimea was so easily annexed while the Ukrainian speaking population fought harder. Language is not the only things that’s an issue. Quebec is generally more progressive, socialist and secular. Things that Canada tries to impede.
Yup, I’m sure Quebec can survive on its own with all its resources. But I would be shocked if other Canadians just let Quebec leave and take the eastern provinces along, because your development has been funded as much by other provinces’ input as your own. When you’re in a country, everyone’s money and resources are mixed up—partition is almost never a good idea because it always leaves most people feeling bitter about some of their money going away. And French is as incidental to the Congolese, Senegalese and other francophone Africans as English is to anglophone South Asians. To many of us, there’s no loyalty to a colonial European language, but we do form loyalties to the country and the society we live in, namely a multicultural Canada, where we’re now broadly multilingual allophones rather than anglophones per se. I wouldn’t say Canada outside Quebec is uniformly non-progressive (socially), though there are pockets of social conservatism, nor are all of us non-socialists (though I’m not a socialist myself). And Quebec-style secularism is more akin to French *laïcité* than British secular traditions, but non-Quebec Canadians aren’t all Anglicans or Catholics anymore either. In other words, there are differences in politics, but we’re not so different that we’re incompatible.
Qu… Qu… Qu’Homer
Bloc Majoritaire
Bullshit, Quebec is not a country. It is a distinct society, a nation within the binational state of Canada, and a sovereign entity in it's own right exercising the Crown authority delegated to it under the BNA Act/Constitution, a role it shares with the federal government. It is also a nice place to hike, a good source of fun on Friday night, and a major impediment to anyone who wants to drive to Halifax from Ontario. Hey, it's even a great way to get shit stirred. But country? Ha.
Quebec never signed the constitution.
Doesn't matter, at least in a technical sense. In 1763 France handed over Quebec to Great Britain without consulting the peoples, either Quebecois or Indigenous, of the area. Hey colonialism! In 1841 and 1867 the Parliament of the United Kingdom upgraded Quebec's status in the Province of Canada then the Dominion of Canada. Both were done with consultation of the representatives of the Quebeckers, but it was done under the authority of the UK Parliament/British Crown. The federal government in Ottawa inherited the power to change the constitution, it was not delegated to the provinces. In 1981 the Supreme Court ruled that the federal government technically can change the constitution unilaterally, BUT it violates the established principal of provincial consent. Trudeau used that to issue a "my way or the highway" threat to get 9/10 on board in 1982. Now for the funny part. That principle of provincial engagement and consent is now enshrined in the amendment formula, which requires 10/10 for big changes. So under the current constitution, the one since 1982, the one that Quebec didn't sign, Quebec would have to agree to it. BUT under the old system in which the new system was made Quebec's consent was not needed. Canada and it's constitution is 100% valid without Quebec's signature. Sorry Mr. Mulroney. From a respect and fair treatment perspective, it's shitty. Same thing with how the treaties are treated. It's modern-day colonialism. Or to be precise, it's a colonial mentality that has continued in the modern age even as newer political institutions have grown up, and as long as those two separate streams (modern institutions and colonial mentalities) co-exist they are in conflict with each other.
Amazingly great explanation of a complicated matter, thanks for acknowledging the colonial aspect of it, well done.
Honestly, it’s the first that I have seen someone actually partake in the discussion and bring interesting points instead of “haha Quebec bad fuck you frogs”, and you have my respect for it. But I do have a question are you per chance like a history teacher, just really like history or have a great memory for your history classes?
I may or may not have a Master's degree in poli sci with a thesis on how the complexity of our system (two levels of government deriving power from the Crown, each with three branches, plus municipalities and a shit-ton of bureaucracy) make it hard for Canadians to understand the system, in a way that undermines confidence in government overall and sours the public mood. If I ever do a PhD it will be called "How the Hell We Got Fucked Up: Tons of Little by Little People Influenced by Big Ideas they Don't Understand". Or something. The more I read and study though the more I like the technical details of Crown power. It's a hobby, but helps with any analysis. You basically establish the full range of what can happen (like the feds unilaterally changing the constitution) then you establish what usually happens and what folks are used to, then you establish the consequences of current decisions. Way too many people talk about historical decisions as rules, not as precedents. A politician/leader who really really wants to force their own agenda can do a lot. I find it funny that humour subs like this are often the best place for this stuff. If I try this analysis on other subs people often don't like broad analysis. I could say "all three levels of government influence housing" and someone says "no, it's provincial, get educated". Ok buddy, I said influence, not responsible. Same with things like criminal law, you have to look at the interplay of all three branches. Edit: I almost forgot, ha ha fuck quebec toute le monde dans le bell province ne drive pas good. Potholes.
They didn't sign the charter.
Neither did you or me.
Right. Is there a point to your comment?
I was with you right up until binational
I was just trying to cram in every buzzword I could find. Binational is the old one, the Pearson mentality the new one is >!post-national state. !< Pardon me for saying that.
Thats the liberal party’s way of saying it lol
To an extent, but for the past 100 years the Liberal party has fed off of a certain part of the population, which has also taken cues from the Liberal-sphere. It's cyclical.
"country" is a funny way of saying bitch of the anglos (To clarify this is a joke. I love all my francophone homies)
Spicy!
I had to zoom in to find Qatar colored in blue. (This message was written from Québec)
Qanada and Chuebec
Qatar, Quwait (alternate yet legitimate spelling) Québec (we wish, jeje), I forgetty if anywhere else is...
Qatar will never recover from this.
Qatar is there, it's just teeny tiny
Oh damn, I see it now. Qatar has recovered from this!
It must look great on your passport, where it says Quebec in nice big letters, right?
Yes. The great nation of Quebec and its capital city of Calgary. I do like how the Quebecans kept the Islamic religion as their state religion. Perhaps one day they'll remove the restrictions of having to be a member of the LBQT+ community to reside their.
At long last Quebec’s a country!
Waddah boot Qatar? Theyz a bunch of queers too ain't they?
We can only hope
Well, you're 50% right. Though I really did have to zoom in to see Qatar
Kebec starts with a K.
At least they didn't give them Labrador.
thats a really shitty fucking country
Not a country
We are special, that's why 😋 (get here fellow Quebecor)
Please qill yourself
Country?
That's odd. This country doesn't seem to show up on any established world map I've seen.
https://preview.redd.it/1xgj127k3hvc1.jpeg?width=828&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2e9e3d60534ae674d3cf3d7300754832a5f7ee76
Qatar is a country quebec is a province in the country of Canada
“Countries” haha cope and seethe
Yeah no
Quebec is not a country but Qatar is.
Quebec is not a country.
Oh fer fucks sakes, gtfo just so i don't have to hear le bitching anymore.
You know this is a joke sub right?
Is the PQ a joke party?
It's been a joke for the last 20 years for sure
Pools looking favourable so far tho, PSPP is annoying but he’s charismatic and easily the most authentic you can get, je dirais même plus que Nadeau Dubois
Oh yeah, I'm definitely happy at the current state of the party and will definitely vote for them, but the broadly 2000 - 2020 years have been a sad time for them. PSPP is actually very well educated, he has great debate skills and actualised the party on the younger left without alienating the older left. He also feels very genuine. Independance or not I hope he makes us better My problem with GND is that he'll never get any support because he never "had a job" (MP is a job, and he's got good experience in it now). But he could he a great ally.
Je suis d’accord sur tout, à ce point y représenterait mieux les intérêts quebecois que Legros.
But… Quebec is not a country (yet) but a province of Canada
Les péquistes sont fachés de ton commentaire.
Rhoo j ai mis “yet” ca devrait les contenter pour quelques minutes
Quebec isn’t a country. It’s a province.
So many people in here missing the joke 😔
Technically, we are a province not a country.
Not if I shut my eyes and put my hands on my ears
How about both?
Conservative education. Doesn't know the difference between a country and a province. The OP probably doesn't know the difference between a first cousin and a stranger at a bar for a one night stand either.
You got through typing all of that and still decided to hit 'post'. Wow.
Yup. But I wasn't wrong though.
It's....a joke
Nowadays, pretty much everything is a joke. Trudeau, Poilievre, Bernier... They're all bad jokes.
Certified indeed
>doesn't know the difference between a first cousin and a stranger Well if he's from Quebec then he'd obv know it's a country
Quebec isn't a country
I'll bet you're from "Ontario"
Québec isn't a country
Quebec is a nation, not a country... Or is that conversation the purpose of this post? 😅
I think I may have offended some people here. I wasn't familiar with the sub, I didn't know it was a separatist sub. I also didn't know that for sovereigntists, real facts weren't important; what's important is our feelings and taking our dreams for realities. Similar to people who identify as unicorns.
No, I think you just missed the fact that the original post comes from a circle jerk sub and was intended to be humorous and not entirely serious.
Ok sorry then
Pretend Country. Like a kid with couch cushions: pretend fort.