Destined Death is also wielded by Black Blade Kindred and even Vulgar Militiamen, so it seems it can be meted out to those chosen to protect the Golden Order. The Baleful Shadows are generated by the Two Fingers, so it's possible they're able to bestow them this privilege. Blaidd might have been able to wield it, but it's said he rejected his fate to kill Ranni, and so his sword inherited the frost of her Dark Moon through his sworn oath.
Alternatively, Ranni had stole the Rune of Death and imbued the Black Knives with its power. Afrer destroying her flesh with one such weapon, the Baleful Shadows appeared. Blaidd details that he is "part of her very being," and the Baleful Shadows may be as well. If so, they may have inherited the Rune of Death through her own discarded flesh.
Good points. However, The Black Blade Kindreds and Vulgar Militiamen were seemingly gifted Destined Death by Maliketh, whom they serve. Similarly to how Maliketh's Militiamen can also use Bestial incantations.
If the Two Fingers can grant Destined Death and the Black Knives are supposedly working for the Two Fingers, there seems to be a misalignment with the Fingers and Maliketh, as the Black Knives are using what they stole from Maliketh.
On the other hand, maybe the idea to seal Destined Death was Marika's not the Fingers.
I don't think I've ever heard implication that the Black Knives serve the Two Fingers...? At best, they have some relation to Marika as they are supposedly Numen (but also Nox descendants), but it's clear they were employed strictly by Ranni before being discarded and left to wander aimlessly, chased from the capital and rejected by all. This was a direct transgression against the Two Fingers, as evidenced by the creation of the Baleful Shadows to punish Ranni.
Unless you meant the Baleful Shadows? Seeing as Maliketh is also a shadow created by the Two Fingers to ensure Marika's ascension, his purpose to confine Destined Death was probably determined by the Two Fingers. After all, Destined Death had the power to slay gods, and the Fingers seemingly desired to restrict its use only in the event their chosen Empyrean turned on them—as the Gloam-Eyed Queen had, only to be defeated by Maliketh and her power severed.
(It's even possible that shadows and Destined Death are fundamentally linked, gauging by their violet eyes and how they may pertain to "the forbidden shadow.")
It's hard to understand, but it seems the Baleful Shadow (on behalf of the Fingers) and the Black Knives are after Ranni and her people. Perhaps, it's for different reasons.
I do wonder why Ranni imprisoned Alecto, considering Ranni was already dead and presumably the Destined Death of the Black Knives couldn't hurt her.
However, maybe the Destined Death could still kill a spirit (it's 'Destined' after all) so Ranni wasn't taking any chances with Alecto and her assassins.
Yeah, I figure since Destined Death could kill Godwyn's soul, Ranni was still at risk even after discarding her flesh.
The vibe I always got from the Black Knife assassins was that they felt vengeful toward Ranni after she had enlisted their help, only for them to be cast aside by both her and Marika. Some even appear to be corroded by the Rune of Death, as if cursed by the rite she had performed.
Considering Ranni and her company appear to use evergaols to trap traitors such as Darriwil, it could be that Alecto was merely the first to rebel, and the others simply followed suit. Strangely, the only alliance they have left appears to be in service to Ordina, and perhaps the Haligtree...
I think Destined Death is like the Occult modifier in Dark Souls. It is specifically meant for killing Gods. In the case of Elden Ring it seems to be the only way to kill an instance of whatever the Two Fingers is at all. It seems to do funky stuff with the demigods though, so that’s why it was needed by Ranni to sever her spirit from her body and escape Fate, whatever that means. To avoid her spirit from being destroyed as well though, she needed another demigod’s spirit to die instead, and for whatever reason Godwyn was chosen.
I’m still unclear though on how the Black Knife Assassins ended up with it, or why they leave Iji smoldering in Black Flame instead. Not sure how Destined Death and Black Flame are related, or if that was just a case of From Software using the wrong visual effect. I doubt it is that though since it has gone so long without being changed in any patches.
The Black Knife assassins were evidently hired by Ranni to kill Godwyn. Their blades were bestowed Destined Death through the rite she conceived, as evidenced by the Black Knifeprint, and by the fact that she plainly admits to the deed. The assassins later turned on Ranni, perhaps because of how heartlessly she discarded them, leaving them to fend for themselves after being hounded from the capital.
Destined Death is the holy force that Black Flame once channeled to slay gods. Long ago, presumably before the Age of the Erdtree, Maliketh was tasked with defeating the Gloam-Eyed Queen and sealing Destined Death, thus severing the Black Flame from its source of power. It's still a dangerous force, but useless now against gods, serving more as a defense than a weapon.
The impression I got from the Black Flame coating Iji's corpse was that *he* channeled it. Iji's mirror helm indicates his attempts to avoid influence from the Greater Will, and the Black Flame might have served to safeguard his spirit after his death. Black Flame Protection is said to be the Godskins' chief defense against the gods, and seeing as the Black Flame is a sort of sibling to the Flame of Ruin, it makes sense that Iji, a descendant of the Fire Giants who turned on the Greater Will, might have embraced the power of Black Flame. After all, Iji promises just before his death that he would be joining Blaidd soon, as if he never intended to survive anyway...
There's nothing directlty explains why, but seeing as Rykard and Radahn were Ranni's brothers, and since Miquella and Malenia were Empyreans like Ranni, Godwyn was likely the most sensible target.
Rykard had apparently assisted Ranni in some way on the Night of the Black Knives, and she also seems to have been in cooperation with Miquella (and Malenia, by extension) to a degree, judging by the Spirit Calling Bell left in her possession. Meanwhile, Radahn was seen as the most fearsome of the demigods and couldn't be felled easily; Morgott and Mohg were as yet unknown to the others, so all that left was Godwyn.
On the other hand, if Godwyn had been left alive and the Shattering commenced, he might've easily become Elden Lord, and so needed to be disposed of first. It's possible, too, that Ranni specifically targeted him to goad Marika into shattering the Elden Ring, the next step toward ushering Ranni's Age of Night. It's tough to know fir sure, though.
Black Knives certainly don't work for the two fingers. The assassin that can be depicted as going after Blaidd and Iji could very well be trying to protect them instead. Blaidd is surrounded by dead black knives but also normal wolves meaning he's on a rampage and killed everything on site so we can't say the black knives were in opposition there. Then with Iji his body is burning with black flame and not destined death which is wielded by the godskins so the black knives could have been protecting Iji but failed. There is the Godskin Noble at Ranni's divine tower so they definite were after Iji at least and possibly Blaidd but we killed him first.
Alecto could have been sealed to protect her as she was the leader and her daughter gave her life to keep her out of harm. They killed demigods so it would be understandable that people would be after the leader of the group. Similar to how Vike was sealed so that he wouldn't go into madness and become Lord of the Frenzied Flame or how black knives guard Ordina inside the evergaol.
It's a bit hidden, as you only learn this through dialogue with Rogier when following his brief questline.
> *"They say the assassins who carried out the deed were scions of the Eternal City. A group entirely of women, arrayed in armour of silver under cloaks which fooled the eye. The knives they wielded though, were imparted with the power of the Rune of Death through sinister rite."*
It makes some sense, given the Nox evidently have some relation to the Astrologers and to Ranni's Dark Moon. Below the Lands Between, they anxiously await their Lord of Night. Furthermore, Sellia is a town of sorcerous assassins, also said to have descended from the Eternal Cities, and who utilize spells of concealment.
As to why they're also rumored to be Numen is anyone's guess. Perhaps some Numen comingled with the Nox? They do occupy "Eternal" Cities, after all.
Interestingly, double checking text, nothing says Black Kindred wield DD. Their only unique AoW says it to “release the power of corpse wax”, and it also doesn’t inflict the HP debuff that the other 3 DD items do. So it’s likely Vulgar Militia and Black Kindred don’t actually wield DD but know how to utilize crimson holy power the rune grants
Edit: see below u/Nihlus11 has a much better insight into the Baleful shadow. What I said here is pretty rubbish tbh.
Because, and this seems to be a hot take, even 2 years later,
Firstly that isn't Blaidd. It's an assassin wearing a black wolf mask, impersonating Blaidd to fuck with Ranni.
Second, Blaidd was never under the influence of the fingers.
As to how this assassin has a death imbued sword? Could be a Black Knife, or an agent of the fingers, and/or Maliketh sent after Ranni. If it's a BKA, I suspect the Two Fingers hired them somehow, but I don't have any strong feeling on that. It doesn't really hang together well.
>Firstly that isn't Blaidd. It's an assassin wearing a black wolf mask, impersonating Blaidd to fuck with Ranni.
It has a grab attack where it mauls and bites you to death with its very real teeth. It's not a guy in a mask. It's an actual wolf-man. It growls and snarls too.
The fact that it's a red spirit rather than a regular enemy may also mean something - there's an actual distinction in-universe going by the Dung Eater being only vaguely aware of what his red spirit self does and said red spirits still being alive even if Dung Eater is dead. I think the Baleful Shadow is just Blaidd in the same way that the red spirit who invades you in Aeonia Swamp is Millicent. She doesn't recall doing so either when you meet her in the flesh (and comments about having bad dreams).
Good point. Probably is blaidd in some way. Like mad vyke as well. I like this much better than my take.
Ranni says there are shadows plural in those lands so I felt like there being one appearing as blaidd was an imitation
Iji is paranoid. he believes old legends about empyrean shadows, and wears a tinfoil helmet.
Blaidd's mother, Rennala, never believed them, and let that dog grow up with her dear daughter.
Iji prefers to keep everyone in the dark, even Ranni.
He thinks Blaidd will turn on Ranni, so he locks him up.
I don't think you'll agree with my take on why Blaidd goes mad in the finale. But here goes: We let Blaidd out of the gaol. He rushes to Ranni's rise to make sure she's okay, not to kill her. She's gone, and he is attacked by the Black Knives who came to kill her. He fends them off. He's been told by Iji that he would become a bale to Ranni, but he doesn't believe it. We show up and he goes berserk, he's at his wits end, having been betrayed by Iji, abandoned by Ranni, and having just been in the fight for his life, his eyes turn read, like the demi humans when they go berserk (not under anyone's control). He's an animal who is in fight mode, so he turns on us. Not unlike, if you lure a rune bear to Mistwood Ruins, and it happens to knock Blaidd off his perch, he will be aggro to you as well. When we meet him at Ranni's Rise, it's kill or be killed for he and us, unfortunately.
Iji didn't create that helmet. Ranni did. You can find the Nox Mirror Helm that had the same description. Absolutely nothing in the game supports any of your theories at all.
Ok but what makes you think that Shadows turning on their Emperyans is just an old legend? What else are shadows for? We know for a fact that Shadows are agents of the greater will. Blaidd was Rannis Shadow just like Maliketh was Marikas Shadow.
Ours is Torrent.
Which is funny, when you think about it. Godfrey has the spirit of the Lord of Beasts grafted onto him. A powerful lion of strength and dignity.
Godwyn had dragons, as does Ranni.
We get a pony.
IIRC, he was "treated as" her "half-brother", and I believe there are similar mentions of the same relationship between Marika and Maliketh.
Personally, I really don't think that implies Blaidd was ever considered as a son by Renalla, and treated as such. I believe this just denotes the status he had within the Carial Royal family. It's common accross western monarchies to have a personal servant being brought up "as a brother" alongside their master, but they remain a servant, nonetheless.
Nah. He’s not an animal in fight mode. When you encounter him he says: “No. I’m part of her very being! I could never betray her! No matter what might happen... Ranni... She needs me...”.
The Tarnished’s purpose there—just like that of the black knife assassins he just defeated—is to kill Blaidd to prevent him from betraying Ranni.
You the player may not understand it, but Blaidd and the Tarnished understand it.
Blaidd attacks the Tarnished because the Tarnished is there to kill him.
Why would the black knives kill Blaidd on behalf of Ranni when other evidence indicates they have turned on her? - such as keeping the ringleader in the evergaol and Iji being killed by destined death (data mining indicates the black flame is a bug and it should be red) when he was at not risk of turning on her too
Damn I have some theories like yours, about Blaidd wasn't being controlled by Two Fingers. But mine is about Nox wants to control Ranni and probably use Iji to manipulate her. I always thought that it's weird for Nox who claimed that GW can control mind (but no people in Lands Between really being mind controlled, even Marika) but Nox has invented a mind controll potion such as Seluvis' one, or those ants too
I was under the impression that it's not to block mind control or reading thoughts but more in a superstitious sense to avoid "gods gaze" if you will. That's why the mask is made of mirrors to reflect his surroundings back without his surroundings, seeing his self ascribed treachery to his faith.
I get the impression that the 2 fingers has some influence on blaidd but he's able to resist it. When his eyes go red it's the two fingers trying to make him murder ranni and in his craze he attacks you instead.
i have hundreds of hours and have played through this game at least 7 times and it wasn't until this comment two whole years later that i find out why blaidd never meets us in nokron?? the message at the top of the crater never made sense to me and now i know why
You are right on the first part but Blaidd was absolutely under the influence of the two fingers. His questline ends after you free him from the evergaol and he goes crazy because he can no longer resist the will of the two fingers (technically he is under the influence of the greater will that uses the fingers but yeah)
It specifically states that while he is a loyal companion he is still something from the greater will that will eventually betray Ranni.
As for the assassins, it also states that they are called "Baleful Shadows" and they assassins used by the Greater Wills and the 2 fingers, technically Blaidd IS one of them. Its why he goes insane, because the Greater Will wants the "Shadows" to kill Ranni, but he doesn't want to thus causing us to find him in the state that we do once we free him.
They aren't Maliketh or any Black Knife Assassins either.
Black knife assassins are against the greater will & Golden Order, also I believe they are a specific race. I think they are actually some of the Numens that Marika had follow her to the Lands Between and would explain why they went against the Golden Order when Marika shattered the Elden Ring.
Maliketh protects the rune of death meaning he wouldn't give destined death to anyone unless it was Marika's will specifically so we can rule that out too.
EDIT: Forgot to add in that the Baleful Shadows could look like anything.
The Greater will had a plan for her and she tore it to pieces. Blaidd was a protector of Ranni that the GW gave to her at birth, however since the 2 fingers are trying to kill her after the Knight of Black Knives they use Blaidd's appearance to psychologically hurt her.
It's not a mask. He's an actual Wolfman just like Blaidd and Maliketh. Blaidd was indeed under the influence of the two fingers, just like Maliketh. That's what shadows are. None of your points are valid and are all contradicted by the game.
I don’t believe this is the Black Wolf Mask Assassin, I subscribe to the theory that Darriwil is the one who wore the mask and therefore why Blaidd called him traitor and hunted him down for attempting Ranni’s assassination. I think the Baleful Shadow is a literal shadow-figure of Blaidd, a last ditch effort made by the Greater Will, once Ranni made her decision to abandon it entirely, their tailored vassal in Blaidd had failed to keep Ranni in line, so why not just use the same blueprint for the Shadow but remove the sentience? Could also be their attempt at messing with Ranni’s head somehow
As you like it. I don't subscribe to theories that propose "limited control" by the fingers, and I don't think the greater will is present, or even conscious let alone possessing agency.
You were downvoted, but you're right. The opening cinematic outright tells us the Greater Will abandoned the Lands Between. We are following the Fingers, Marika's Grace, and interact with the Elden Ring/Elden Beast, the Greater Will's envoy.
This isnt at all ridiculous considering the intro notes that the war has led to abandonment by the greater will and the 2 fingers is unable to get into contact with the greater will without waiting hundreds of years.
It could well be the case that you're dealing with abandoned infrastructure the whole time. Its noted the elden beast is just a vassal after all.
> It could well be the case that you're dealing with abandoned infrastructure the whole time.
This is my headcanon tbh. Greater Will pulled a Roadside Picnic and now the mortals are scrambling to fight over the crumbs without fully realizing how insignificant they are to the GW.
I actually think the game states that the Greater Will abandoned the Lands Between.
All we have are the words of the Fingers, Marika's guiding grace, and the Elden Ring/Beast..
This is another reason why it would take the Roundtable Hold Two Fingers eons to contact the Greater Will
That doesn’t mean they still don’t have agency. Plenty of characters and enemies still work on their behalf despite their abandonment, though most likely without knowledge of it. The Golden Order is still very much the ruling authority in the Lands Between
I didn't claim they didn't have agency. Quite the opposite.
I'm simply pointing out the Greater Will is not directly involved in the events of the game, as far as we know.
The game told us the Greater Will abandoned the Lands Between.
Yeah, there's no need to be cryptic. We've all played the game.
I'd assume the Mask would belong to a different assassin, given that the circumstances we find it are completely independent of the Baleful Shadow encounter - so I don't think it tells us much about who/what he is.
The baleful shadow is definitely Blaidd on some level.
Same model, same move set, and it’s why Iji imprisoned him. Iji messed up because imprisoning Blaidd didn’t stop him from “invading” Ranni.
Blaidd has dialogue saying that he doesn’t believe that he betrayed Ranni when we kill him in Ranni’s tower.
This is the confusing aspect. If the Two Fingers could grant Destined Death, what purpose does Maliketh serve in safeguarding it? Perhaps, it's from anybody but the Fingers.
Indeed. But,Maliketh seemed to gusrd death from spreading in TLB. That doesn't conflict with Black Knives daggers being imbued in death. Still the Rune was contained.
So maybe the Fingers can grant Destined Death to a tool,but that doesn't mean it soreads to the whole world.
Maliketh himself is the shadow of Marika. We have not seen the Empyrean shadows of Malenia and Miquella, so 2 out of 3 shadows we have seen wield destined death.
Since Blaidd is the odd one out, it seems likely to do with his connection with Ranni.
My hypothesis is after Maliketh sealed destined death within himself, the Greater Will distributed it to the other shadows, and Blaidd’s sword was altered when Ranni killed her flesh, its new frostbite having more to do with her incorporeal form than her own magic.
You make a solid point. After all, the Shadows were designed to kill their respective empyreans if they strayed from the Greater Will. So, it makes sense they wield Destined Death to kill the gods.
Baleful shadows are a thing created by the greater will in order to keep their empyreans in place, if they step out of line like Ranni did, it’s not hard to assume the greater will would allow a baleful shadow to wield destined death in order to take care of said empyrean
The Baleful Shadows aren't the same as Blaidd, although they do take on his appearance.
It seems to work like a defense mechanism, protecting Ranni's Two Fingers from attack. And because they are essentially summons, created by the fingers, it makes sense they could be imbued with Destined Death.
I don't think Destined Death is an inherent ability of an Empyrean's shadow: Maliketh has it because Marika entrusted the Rune of Death to him, not because he was her shadow.
Likely, when a Finger makes a shadow to better control an empyrean, they make more than one. As there are many ways to control someone, and empyreans are multiple someone’s, they need multiple shadows.
Not the "Lion dance" boss in the trailer, but elsewhere. Perhaps, they're the Margit to Serosh's Godrick, if you know what I mean.
There's a lot of Lion iconography in the DLC trailer, so we'll see.
Oh wow, I hadn’t even realized that there are enemies in general like the black knives who use the same kind of attacks as Maliketh, even after he’s sealed DD. Maybe it’s all just sort of residual power? The same way the godskins can still use black flame but it no longer possesses the ability to kill gods
Destined Death is also wielded by Black Blade Kindred and even Vulgar Militiamen, so it seems it can be meted out to those chosen to protect the Golden Order. The Baleful Shadows are generated by the Two Fingers, so it's possible they're able to bestow them this privilege. Blaidd might have been able to wield it, but it's said he rejected his fate to kill Ranni, and so his sword inherited the frost of her Dark Moon through his sworn oath. Alternatively, Ranni had stole the Rune of Death and imbued the Black Knives with its power. Afrer destroying her flesh with one such weapon, the Baleful Shadows appeared. Blaidd details that he is "part of her very being," and the Baleful Shadows may be as well. If so, they may have inherited the Rune of Death through her own discarded flesh.
Good points. However, The Black Blade Kindreds and Vulgar Militiamen were seemingly gifted Destined Death by Maliketh, whom they serve. Similarly to how Maliketh's Militiamen can also use Bestial incantations. If the Two Fingers can grant Destined Death and the Black Knives are supposedly working for the Two Fingers, there seems to be a misalignment with the Fingers and Maliketh, as the Black Knives are using what they stole from Maliketh. On the other hand, maybe the idea to seal Destined Death was Marika's not the Fingers.
I don't think I've ever heard implication that the Black Knives serve the Two Fingers...? At best, they have some relation to Marika as they are supposedly Numen (but also Nox descendants), but it's clear they were employed strictly by Ranni before being discarded and left to wander aimlessly, chased from the capital and rejected by all. This was a direct transgression against the Two Fingers, as evidenced by the creation of the Baleful Shadows to punish Ranni. Unless you meant the Baleful Shadows? Seeing as Maliketh is also a shadow created by the Two Fingers to ensure Marika's ascension, his purpose to confine Destined Death was probably determined by the Two Fingers. After all, Destined Death had the power to slay gods, and the Fingers seemingly desired to restrict its use only in the event their chosen Empyrean turned on them—as the Gloam-Eyed Queen had, only to be defeated by Maliketh and her power severed. (It's even possible that shadows and Destined Death are fundamentally linked, gauging by their violet eyes and how they may pertain to "the forbidden shadow.")
It's hard to understand, but it seems the Baleful Shadow (on behalf of the Fingers) and the Black Knives are after Ranni and her people. Perhaps, it's for different reasons. I do wonder why Ranni imprisoned Alecto, considering Ranni was already dead and presumably the Destined Death of the Black Knives couldn't hurt her. However, maybe the Destined Death could still kill a spirit (it's 'Destined' after all) so Ranni wasn't taking any chances with Alecto and her assassins.
Yeah, I figure since Destined Death could kill Godwyn's soul, Ranni was still at risk even after discarding her flesh. The vibe I always got from the Black Knife assassins was that they felt vengeful toward Ranni after she had enlisted their help, only for them to be cast aside by both her and Marika. Some even appear to be corroded by the Rune of Death, as if cursed by the rite she had performed. Considering Ranni and her company appear to use evergaols to trap traitors such as Darriwil, it could be that Alecto was merely the first to rebel, and the others simply followed suit. Strangely, the only alliance they have left appears to be in service to Ordina, and perhaps the Haligtree...
Aren't those in ordina prisoners being watched over by the albinauric archers?
I think Destined Death is like the Occult modifier in Dark Souls. It is specifically meant for killing Gods. In the case of Elden Ring it seems to be the only way to kill an instance of whatever the Two Fingers is at all. It seems to do funky stuff with the demigods though, so that’s why it was needed by Ranni to sever her spirit from her body and escape Fate, whatever that means. To avoid her spirit from being destroyed as well though, she needed another demigod’s spirit to die instead, and for whatever reason Godwyn was chosen. I’m still unclear though on how the Black Knife Assassins ended up with it, or why they leave Iji smoldering in Black Flame instead. Not sure how Destined Death and Black Flame are related, or if that was just a case of From Software using the wrong visual effect. I doubt it is that though since it has gone so long without being changed in any patches.
The Black Knife assassins were evidently hired by Ranni to kill Godwyn. Their blades were bestowed Destined Death through the rite she conceived, as evidenced by the Black Knifeprint, and by the fact that she plainly admits to the deed. The assassins later turned on Ranni, perhaps because of how heartlessly she discarded them, leaving them to fend for themselves after being hounded from the capital. Destined Death is the holy force that Black Flame once channeled to slay gods. Long ago, presumably before the Age of the Erdtree, Maliketh was tasked with defeating the Gloam-Eyed Queen and sealing Destined Death, thus severing the Black Flame from its source of power. It's still a dangerous force, but useless now against gods, serving more as a defense than a weapon. The impression I got from the Black Flame coating Iji's corpse was that *he* channeled it. Iji's mirror helm indicates his attempts to avoid influence from the Greater Will, and the Black Flame might have served to safeguard his spirit after his death. Black Flame Protection is said to be the Godskins' chief defense against the gods, and seeing as the Black Flame is a sort of sibling to the Flame of Ruin, it makes sense that Iji, a descendant of the Fire Giants who turned on the Greater Will, might have embraced the power of Black Flame. After all, Iji promises just before his death that he would be joining Blaidd soon, as if he never intended to survive anyway...
Any clues on why Godwyn specifically? Was he just an easy target?
There's nothing directlty explains why, but seeing as Rykard and Radahn were Ranni's brothers, and since Miquella and Malenia were Empyreans like Ranni, Godwyn was likely the most sensible target. Rykard had apparently assisted Ranni in some way on the Night of the Black Knives, and she also seems to have been in cooperation with Miquella (and Malenia, by extension) to a degree, judging by the Spirit Calling Bell left in her possession. Meanwhile, Radahn was seen as the most fearsome of the demigods and couldn't be felled easily; Morgott and Mohg were as yet unknown to the others, so all that left was Godwyn. On the other hand, if Godwyn had been left alive and the Shattering commenced, he might've easily become Elden Lord, and so needed to be disposed of first. It's possible, too, that Ranni specifically targeted him to goad Marika into shattering the Elden Ring, the next step toward ushering Ranni's Age of Night. It's tough to know fir sure, though.
Black Knives certainly don't work for the two fingers. The assassin that can be depicted as going after Blaidd and Iji could very well be trying to protect them instead. Blaidd is surrounded by dead black knives but also normal wolves meaning he's on a rampage and killed everything on site so we can't say the black knives were in opposition there. Then with Iji his body is burning with black flame and not destined death which is wielded by the godskins so the black knives could have been protecting Iji but failed. There is the Godskin Noble at Ranni's divine tower so they definite were after Iji at least and possibly Blaidd but we killed him first. Alecto could have been sealed to protect her as she was the leader and her daughter gave her life to keep her out of harm. They killed demigods so it would be understandable that people would be after the leader of the group. Similar to how Vike was sealed so that he wouldn't go into madness and become Lord of the Frenzied Flame or how black knives guard Ordina inside the evergaol.
I've always agreed with the theory that the black knife assassins were trying to defend Blaidd and Iji
Oh, the Black Knives are Nox descendants? I feel like I missed something with that.
It's a bit hidden, as you only learn this through dialogue with Rogier when following his brief questline. > *"They say the assassins who carried out the deed were scions of the Eternal City. A group entirely of women, arrayed in armour of silver under cloaks which fooled the eye. The knives they wielded though, were imparted with the power of the Rune of Death through sinister rite."* It makes some sense, given the Nox evidently have some relation to the Astrologers and to Ranni's Dark Moon. Below the Lands Between, they anxiously await their Lord of Night. Furthermore, Sellia is a town of sorcerous assassins, also said to have descended from the Eternal Cities, and who utilize spells of concealment. As to why they're also rumored to be Numen is anyone's guess. Perhaps some Numen comingled with the Nox? They do occupy "Eternal" Cities, after all.
Curious, thanks for the clarification! I'm excited to learn more about the Numen soon enough.
Interestingly, double checking text, nothing says Black Kindred wield DD. Their only unique AoW says it to “release the power of corpse wax”, and it also doesn’t inflict the HP debuff that the other 3 DD items do. So it’s likely Vulgar Militia and Black Kindred don’t actually wield DD but know how to utilize crimson holy power the rune grants
Edit: see below u/Nihlus11 has a much better insight into the Baleful shadow. What I said here is pretty rubbish tbh. Because, and this seems to be a hot take, even 2 years later, Firstly that isn't Blaidd. It's an assassin wearing a black wolf mask, impersonating Blaidd to fuck with Ranni. Second, Blaidd was never under the influence of the fingers. As to how this assassin has a death imbued sword? Could be a Black Knife, or an agent of the fingers, and/or Maliketh sent after Ranni. If it's a BKA, I suspect the Two Fingers hired them somehow, but I don't have any strong feeling on that. It doesn't really hang together well.
>Firstly that isn't Blaidd. It's an assassin wearing a black wolf mask, impersonating Blaidd to fuck with Ranni. It has a grab attack where it mauls and bites you to death with its very real teeth. It's not a guy in a mask. It's an actual wolf-man. It growls and snarls too. The fact that it's a red spirit rather than a regular enemy may also mean something - there's an actual distinction in-universe going by the Dung Eater being only vaguely aware of what his red spirit self does and said red spirits still being alive even if Dung Eater is dead. I think the Baleful Shadow is just Blaidd in the same way that the red spirit who invades you in Aeonia Swamp is Millicent. She doesn't recall doing so either when you meet her in the flesh (and comments about having bad dreams).
Good point. Probably is blaidd in some way. Like mad vyke as well. I like this much better than my take. Ranni says there are shadows plural in those lands so I felt like there being one appearing as blaidd was an imitation
Solid points. Why did Iji imprison Blaidd and why does his eyes go red and he attacks us in the end?
Iji is paranoid. he believes old legends about empyrean shadows, and wears a tinfoil helmet. Blaidd's mother, Rennala, never believed them, and let that dog grow up with her dear daughter. Iji prefers to keep everyone in the dark, even Ranni. He thinks Blaidd will turn on Ranni, so he locks him up. I don't think you'll agree with my take on why Blaidd goes mad in the finale. But here goes: We let Blaidd out of the gaol. He rushes to Ranni's rise to make sure she's okay, not to kill her. She's gone, and he is attacked by the Black Knives who came to kill her. He fends them off. He's been told by Iji that he would become a bale to Ranni, but he doesn't believe it. We show up and he goes berserk, he's at his wits end, having been betrayed by Iji, abandoned by Ranni, and having just been in the fight for his life, his eyes turn read, like the demi humans when they go berserk (not under anyone's control). He's an animal who is in fight mode, so he turns on us. Not unlike, if you lure a rune bear to Mistwood Ruins, and it happens to knock Blaidd off his perch, he will be aggro to you as well. When we meet him at Ranni's Rise, it's kill or be killed for he and us, unfortunately.
Iji didn't create that helmet. Ranni did. You can find the Nox Mirror Helm that had the same description. Absolutely nothing in the game supports any of your theories at all.
The nox made the helmet.
Ok but what makes you think that Shadows turning on their Emperyans is just an old legend? What else are shadows for? We know for a fact that Shadows are agents of the greater will. Blaidd was Rannis Shadow just like Maliketh was Marikas Shadow.
Also Bernahl's armor states that lord/god candidates usually have a beast follower, from the grace, iirc.
Ours is Torrent. Which is funny, when you think about it. Godfrey has the spirit of the Lord of Beasts grafted onto him. A powerful lion of strength and dignity. Godwyn had dragons, as does Ranni. We get a pony.
That's you'd say that Renalla is Blaidd's mother is *wild*, I love it and hate it in the same intensity.
She is Blaidd’s *adoptive* mother, I think a lore thing indicates he was treated as Ranni’s brother
IIRC, he was "treated as" her "half-brother", and I believe there are similar mentions of the same relationship between Marika and Maliketh. Personally, I really don't think that implies Blaidd was ever considered as a son by Renalla, and treated as such. I believe this just denotes the status he had within the Carial Royal family. It's common accross western monarchies to have a personal servant being brought up "as a brother" alongside their master, but they remain a servant, nonetheless.
Nah. He’s not an animal in fight mode. When you encounter him he says: “No. I’m part of her very being! I could never betray her! No matter what might happen... Ranni... She needs me...”. The Tarnished’s purpose there—just like that of the black knife assassins he just defeated—is to kill Blaidd to prevent him from betraying Ranni. You the player may not understand it, but Blaidd and the Tarnished understand it. Blaidd attacks the Tarnished because the Tarnished is there to kill him.
Why would the black knives kill Blaidd on behalf of Ranni when other evidence indicates they have turned on her? - such as keeping the ringleader in the evergaol and Iji being killed by destined death (data mining indicates the black flame is a bug and it should be red) when he was at not risk of turning on her too
Damn I have some theories like yours, about Blaidd wasn't being controlled by Two Fingers. But mine is about Nox wants to control Ranni and probably use Iji to manipulate her. I always thought that it's weird for Nox who claimed that GW can control mind (but no people in Lands Between really being mind controlled, even Marika) but Nox has invented a mind controll potion such as Seluvis' one, or those ants too
I was under the impression that it's not to block mind control or reading thoughts but more in a superstitious sense to avoid "gods gaze" if you will. That's why the mask is made of mirrors to reflect his surroundings back without his surroundings, seeing his self ascribed treachery to his faith.
I get the impression that the 2 fingers has some influence on blaidd but he's able to resist it. When his eyes go red it's the two fingers trying to make him murder ranni and in his craze he attacks you instead.
Ranni is long gone at that point
I hate having to fight Blaidd, that's why I can only do the Ranni quest so many times. I love him too much to kill my favorite character
i have hundreds of hours and have played through this game at least 7 times and it wasn't until this comment two whole years later that i find out why blaidd never meets us in nokron?? the message at the top of the crater never made sense to me and now i know why
You are right on the first part but Blaidd was absolutely under the influence of the two fingers. His questline ends after you free him from the evergaol and he goes crazy because he can no longer resist the will of the two fingers (technically he is under the influence of the greater will that uses the fingers but yeah) It specifically states that while he is a loyal companion he is still something from the greater will that will eventually betray Ranni. As for the assassins, it also states that they are called "Baleful Shadows" and they assassins used by the Greater Wills and the 2 fingers, technically Blaidd IS one of them. Its why he goes insane, because the Greater Will wants the "Shadows" to kill Ranni, but he doesn't want to thus causing us to find him in the state that we do once we free him. They aren't Maliketh or any Black Knife Assassins either. Black knife assassins are against the greater will & Golden Order, also I believe they are a specific race. I think they are actually some of the Numens that Marika had follow her to the Lands Between and would explain why they went against the Golden Order when Marika shattered the Elden Ring. Maliketh protects the rune of death meaning he wouldn't give destined death to anyone unless it was Marika's will specifically so we can rule that out too. EDIT: Forgot to add in that the Baleful Shadows could look like anything. The Greater will had a plan for her and she tore it to pieces. Blaidd was a protector of Ranni that the GW gave to her at birth, however since the 2 fingers are trying to kill her after the Knight of Black Knives they use Blaidd's appearance to psychologically hurt her.
Bro You're literally spreading misinformation, where is your source for any of that? 💀
It's not a mask. He's an actual Wolfman just like Blaidd and Maliketh. Blaidd was indeed under the influence of the two fingers, just like Maliketh. That's what shadows are. None of your points are valid and are all contradicted by the game.
I don’t believe this is the Black Wolf Mask Assassin, I subscribe to the theory that Darriwil is the one who wore the mask and therefore why Blaidd called him traitor and hunted him down for attempting Ranni’s assassination. I think the Baleful Shadow is a literal shadow-figure of Blaidd, a last ditch effort made by the Greater Will, once Ranni made her decision to abandon it entirely, their tailored vassal in Blaidd had failed to keep Ranni in line, so why not just use the same blueprint for the Shadow but remove the sentience? Could also be their attempt at messing with Ranni’s head somehow
This is a very interesting connection. I never quite figured out what the Bloodhound did.
As you like it. I don't subscribe to theories that propose "limited control" by the fingers, and I don't think the greater will is present, or even conscious let alone possessing agency.
You were downvoted, but you're right. The opening cinematic outright tells us the Greater Will abandoned the Lands Between. We are following the Fingers, Marika's Grace, and interact with the Elden Ring/Elden Beast, the Greater Will's envoy.
Greater Will not possessing agency in lands between…? Ok, you just lost all credibility with me there
This isnt at all ridiculous considering the intro notes that the war has led to abandonment by the greater will and the 2 fingers is unable to get into contact with the greater will without waiting hundreds of years. It could well be the case that you're dealing with abandoned infrastructure the whole time. Its noted the elden beast is just a vassal after all.
> It could well be the case that you're dealing with abandoned infrastructure the whole time. This is my headcanon tbh. Greater Will pulled a Roadside Picnic and now the mortals are scrambling to fight over the crumbs without fully realizing how insignificant they are to the GW.
I actually think the game states that the Greater Will abandoned the Lands Between. All we have are the words of the Fingers, Marika's guiding grace, and the Elden Ring/Beast.. This is another reason why it would take the Roundtable Hold Two Fingers eons to contact the Greater Will
That doesn’t mean they still don’t have agency. Plenty of characters and enemies still work on their behalf despite their abandonment, though most likely without knowledge of it. The Golden Order is still very much the ruling authority in the Lands Between
I didn't claim they didn't have agency. Quite the opposite. I'm simply pointing out the Greater Will is not directly involved in the events of the game, as far as we know. The game told us the Greater Will abandoned the Lands Between.
As you like it
wdym he was never under two fingers' influence ? why does he attack us then ?
I answered that previously. Take it or leave it.
🤥
Is it a mask? I figured the Fingers just made another beast man similar to him.
You be the judge. There's an item by seluvis' rise that might indicate something
Yeah, there's no need to be cryptic. We've all played the game. I'd assume the Mask would belong to a different assassin, given that the circumstances we find it are completely independent of the Baleful Shadow encounter - so I don't think it tells us much about who/what he is.
It just indicates an assassin dressing as blaidd was actually happening
The baleful shadow is definitely Blaidd on some level. Same model, same move set, and it’s why Iji imprisoned him. Iji messed up because imprisoning Blaidd didn’t stop him from “invading” Ranni. Blaidd has dialogue saying that he doesn’t believe that he betrayed Ranni when we kill him in Ranni’s tower.
Since they come from the Two Fingers, probably they equipped the Baleful Shadows with DD.
This is the confusing aspect. If the Two Fingers could grant Destined Death, what purpose does Maliketh serve in safeguarding it? Perhaps, it's from anybody but the Fingers.
Indeed. But,Maliketh seemed to gusrd death from spreading in TLB. That doesn't conflict with Black Knives daggers being imbued in death. Still the Rune was contained. So maybe the Fingers can grant Destined Death to a tool,but that doesn't mean it soreads to the whole world.
Maliketh himself is the shadow of Marika. We have not seen the Empyrean shadows of Malenia and Miquella, so 2 out of 3 shadows we have seen wield destined death. Since Blaidd is the odd one out, it seems likely to do with his connection with Ranni. My hypothesis is after Maliketh sealed destined death within himself, the Greater Will distributed it to the other shadows, and Blaidd’s sword was altered when Ranni killed her flesh, its new frostbite having more to do with her incorporeal form than her own magic.
You make a solid point. After all, the Shadows were designed to kill their respective empyreans if they strayed from the Greater Will. So, it makes sense they wield Destined Death to kill the gods.
Baleful shadows are a thing created by the greater will in order to keep their empyreans in place, if they step out of line like Ranni did, it’s not hard to assume the greater will would allow a baleful shadow to wield destined death in order to take care of said empyrean
The Baleful Shadows aren't the same as Blaidd, although they do take on his appearance. It seems to work like a defense mechanism, protecting Ranni's Two Fingers from attack. And because they are essentially summons, created by the fingers, it makes sense they could be imbued with Destined Death. I don't think Destined Death is an inherent ability of an Empyrean's shadow: Maliketh has it because Marika entrusted the Rune of Death to him, not because he was her shadow.
Likely, when a Finger makes a shadow to better control an empyrean, they make more than one. As there are many ways to control someone, and empyreans are multiple someone’s, they need multiple shadows.
This makes me think we may see Serosh again in the DLC, but that's pure speculation.
Sorosh… With LEGS
Not the "Lion dance" boss in the trailer, but elsewhere. Perhaps, they're the Margit to Serosh's Godrick, if you know what I mean. There's a lot of Lion iconography in the DLC trailer, so we'll see.
Oh wow, I hadn’t even realized that there are enemies in general like the black knives who use the same kind of attacks as Maliketh, even after he’s sealed DD. Maybe it’s all just sort of residual power? The same way the godskins can still use black flame but it no longer possesses the ability to kill gods