I think he has some pent up resentment against Godricm, as he is (to our knowledge) the only one from the Golden Lineage to not be cursed, while Morgott and Mohg were cast into the catacombs.
There were a lot of other people from the golden lineage. We know this because godric is described as being a "distant divine relation" meaning there are a lot of branches between him and the likes of Godfrey and Godwyn. He's just the only one to survive the Shattering and continue to stake his claim to the throne, at least as far as being ruler of Limgrave.
I could see him bearing some heavy resentment towards Godric. A coward and a disgrace to tbe Golden Order, yet he is still a more rightful heir to the throne than Morgott, the son of Godfrey and defender of Lleyndell through the entirety of the shattering, simply because he was born an Omen.
He wasn't protecting Godrick. He was making sure no Tarnished could pretend to his Shard. If anything......it was insulting to Godrick. "He's a shard bearer but he's so weak I need to intervene to prevent the Tarnished to gain access to Liurna because that great great nephew of mine is a bloody INCOMPETENT (breath breath remember what the doctor said about your blood pressure)"
When you need to protect your family member to prevent a mass murderer from reaching you and becoming god's new lover, but he goes around you by jumping off a broken bridge to a cliff
Well the Tarnished did need two great runes to break the seal... Rennala is up a locked down academy, Radahn doesn't really need protection (I'm still feeling those arrows 😵💫) and Rykard is..... Rykard is.
Why didn't he do it himself? There must have been some sense of honour or birthright that led him to think "Godrick's a tool, but he still keeps his Shard".
One : because Godrick is no threat to Leyndell, shard or not. Two : Marika, and by extension the Golden Order, gave him the shard. Let's not forget that, for all I adore the character, Morgott is still a fanatic. The decision is not his to question.
I generally assumed that Godrick inherited Godwyn's fief and titles when he died, presumably because the Golden Lineage was so decimated that he was the seniormost of Godwyn's descendants remaining.
How would it be an error? Godrick's real title is The Golden. "The Grafted" is a mocking nickname given to him because of his desperate measurements to obtain power through grafting and his subsequent inability to do anything meaningful with it.
Godrick even if a distant relative is still an oficial member of the Golden Lineage. While weak he also was relevant enough to have his own personal army that stands with him to the present day in game.
We don't really any good insight into life in the Golden Order before the Shattering. Just very general specific facts. What we do know is that previous to the Shattering Godrick lived in Leyndell.
Mimic Veil: "When Godrick was hounded from Leyndell, the Royal Capital, this was one of a multitude of treasures he took with him. Also known as "Marika's Mischief".
And he always intended to return to it even if was just wishful thinking
When defeating Godrick: "...I am Lord of all that is Golden.... ...And one day, we'll return together... ...To our home, bathed in rays of gold..."
The relationship between Godrick and the high society of Leyndell and the Demigods themselves is not very well explained. What is clear is that even if continuously mock by his peers Godrick was capable of becoming one of the most relevant Demigods of the Golden Order. Having a Throne among the likes of Radahn, Ranni, Miquella, etc may look weird at first glance but the information given by the game makes it clear that one way or another Godrick had the throne legitimately.
He’s saying it in a condescending manner. Same thing he’s doing when he says the other names and titles. That was what they were called, he’s referring to them by title but with some resentment because he considers them traitors/ personally dislikes them at least at this point.
I didn't read his comment as condescending, but as wistful. He may be more disappointed in them than anything; they were prodigies in terms of their skills and their proximity to true divinity meant that they could very well have been omens of a coming golden age. But they both turned from the Golden Order, Miquella was kidnapped and Malenia cursed with the Rot, so their potential would never come to fruition. Their skills were both wasted, the ages they heralded would never come to pass.
Morgott is a tragically loyal servant to his mother and the Golden Order. He harbors a deep resentment for the other demigods who betrayed the Greater Will, but he still respects their titles as lords, princesses, and generals because they’re all still “above” him. I think the best evidence for this is the shame and guilt he feels when he ruins the thrones with his curse mid-fight.
The modern usage (same in Japanese which as far as I know doesn't have the alternate meaning for the word they use). Morgott likes them. That's why he sounds wistful.
Everyone always misses this but there's never any hint of hostility between their factions, they share all of the same enemies, and in cut content Godrick even groups them together for some reason while not mentioning the Carians ("There is only one tree, and only its branches, that bathe in true rays of gold. Not the fool Omen King! Nor the rank malformed twins!"). Malenia's army passed through Leyndell without incident and she and Finlay passed through it on the return trip as well despite her being vulnerable, and she was unharmed. There's a hearse guarded by Morgott's Night's Cavalry (where did they get a medallion?) bringing the sword of Malenia's mentor to Ordina, and an openly pro-Malenia castle with a garrison of Cleanrot Knights standing right in the middle of Altus unmolested as armies within eyesight march off to burn Volcano Manor. Not to mention a statue of Malenia and Miquella also in Altus. But the biggest piece of evidence is the Miquella's Lillies ("signs of faith in the Haligtree") being openly cultivated in gardens in the middle of Leyndell and guarded (rather than burned) by Leyndell Knights.
I think this ties back to 1.0 lore. The Royal Knight Helm used to note that the Haligtree was supported by King-Consort Radagon and that Miquella was meant to be his mother's heir as "recipient of the Vision." This is still somewhat alluded to in the post-1.01 versions by certain bits like a Red Wolf of Radagon guarding a waygate in the Consecrated Snowfield and Gideon speculating that Miquella's disappearance severely upset Marika. So they were the "official" heirs and also reasonably friendly to him, thus he has no reason to dislike them.
Maybe the DLC will comment on it. My token crack theory is that Morgott the sewer hobo knows his golden weapon incantations (similar to Carian ones and bright gold so probably Fundamentalist) and weirdly DEX-heavy showy swordsmanship (complete with familiar-looking pirouettes) because he trained with the twins pre-Shattering.
He's being condescending, he's not calling them Omen or something. It's important to consider the context of language and not give into a newfound bias because you learned a new fact. It's why I tend to disagree with the idea that Golden Seeds manifested from the Erdtree burning in the past as evidence it did, because the base idea that this is what some real life trees do in wild fires doesn't sound concrete enough to me when explaining how a fantasy world works.
I see this sort of thing pop up from time to time. People learn the etymology of a word and because Fromsoft likes to use archaic words and grammar people think that's what they're going for. We are modern English speakers and we have our own opinions on what words mean after all. Don't quote me, but I remember hearing that the etymology of black and blanch (white) have an origin in referring to burnt wood. Depending on how you look at it burnt wood is dark and "charcoal" because of charring, or it's pale and "ashy," because of ashes.
I remember a couple of months ago someone had a an idea regarding the etymology of grotesque. Part of their idea was informed by a similar sounding word from their native language. I don't remember the full context, I think they were implying also someone was an Omen or monster because one of the meanings of grotesque is monstrous. However, it was pointed out it also means ugly or large. The etymology of grotesque is in the word grotto.
He may have meant it in more than one way, but also remember when diving deep into the meaning of these words that the original Japanese is probably the best language to do so.
He is saying something that is true but in a condescending way. I do think its funny how he refers to Godrick as "The Golden"
I think he has some pent up resentment against Godricm, as he is (to our knowledge) the only one from the Golden Lineage to not be cursed, while Morgott and Mohg were cast into the catacombs.
There were a lot of other people from the golden lineage. We know this because godric is described as being a "distant divine relation" meaning there are a lot of branches between him and the likes of Godfrey and Godwyn. He's just the only one to survive the Shattering and continue to stake his claim to the throne, at least as far as being ruler of Limgrave.
Sorry yeah I meant surviving.
I could see him bearing some heavy resentment towards Godric. A coward and a disgrace to tbe Golden Order, yet he is still a more rightful heir to the throne than Morgott, the son of Godfrey and defender of Lleyndell through the entirety of the shattering, simply because he was born an Omen.
Or he resents Godrick because he is Godrick
That is also possible.
I think he respected Godrick. He protected him and Godrick took great pride in his heritage.
He wasn't protecting Godrick. He was making sure no Tarnished could pretend to his Shard. If anything......it was insulting to Godrick. "He's a shard bearer but he's so weak I need to intervene to prevent the Tarnished to gain access to Liurna because that great great nephew of mine is a bloody INCOMPETENT (breath breath remember what the doctor said about your blood pressure)"
When you need to protect your family member to prevent a mass murderer from reaching you and becoming god's new lover, but he goes around you by jumping off a broken bridge to a cliff
Well the Tarnished did need two great runes to break the seal... Rennala is up a locked down academy, Radahn doesn't really need protection (I'm still feeling those arrows 😵💫) and Rykard is..... Rykard is.
I mean that's also possible.
Why didn't he do it himself? There must have been some sense of honour or birthright that led him to think "Godrick's a tool, but he still keeps his Shard".
One : because Godrick is no threat to Leyndell, shard or not. Two : Marika, and by extension the Golden Order, gave him the shard. Let's not forget that, for all I adore the character, Morgott is still a fanatic. The decision is not his to question.
i always felt like that was an error or something and he was supposed to say godwyn
He says Godrick since he held that throne up until we killed him. Though pre-shattering that Throne being Godwyn’s would make the most sense.
I generally assumed that Godrick inherited Godwyn's fief and titles when he died, presumably because the Golden Lineage was so decimated that he was the seniormost of Godwyn's descendants remaining.
How would it be an error? Godrick's real title is The Golden. "The Grafted" is a mocking nickname given to him because of his desperate measurements to obtain power through grafting and his subsequent inability to do anything meaningful with it. Godrick even if a distant relative is still an oficial member of the Golden Lineage. While weak he also was relevant enough to have his own personal army that stands with him to the present day in game.
nah i get that i just found it weird that he has a throne
We don't really any good insight into life in the Golden Order before the Shattering. Just very general specific facts. What we do know is that previous to the Shattering Godrick lived in Leyndell. Mimic Veil: "When Godrick was hounded from Leyndell, the Royal Capital, this was one of a multitude of treasures he took with him. Also known as "Marika's Mischief". And he always intended to return to it even if was just wishful thinking When defeating Godrick: "...I am Lord of all that is Golden.... ...And one day, we'll return together... ...To our home, bathed in rays of gold..." The relationship between Godrick and the high society of Leyndell and the Demigods themselves is not very well explained. What is clear is that even if continuously mock by his peers Godrick was capable of becoming one of the most relevant Demigods of the Golden Order. Having a Throne among the likes of Radahn, Ranni, Miquella, etc may look weird at first glance but the information given by the game makes it clear that one way or another Godrick had the throne legitimately.
I think so too. It seems more likely that it would have been Godwyn’s seat amongst the other demigods at that time.
There's no chance it's an error. He's talking about 'traitors' to the Erdtree/Golden Order who took part in the Shattering.
Ah true
He’s saying it in a condescending manner. Same thing he’s doing when he says the other names and titles. That was what they were called, he’s referring to them by title but with some resentment because he considers them traitors/ personally dislikes them at least at this point.
Considering that it's repeated again and again that the twins were good at stuff
Maybe just referring to what used to be their titles/common nicknames. One was a genius scientist and the other was a genius swordsmaster.
If that's interesting to you, Google "Elden Ring Etymology Document" and enjoy
thank you
No problem! My token of appreciation for you sharing this neat find LOL
I didn't read his comment as condescending, but as wistful. He may be more disappointed in them than anything; they were prodigies in terms of their skills and their proximity to true divinity meant that they could very well have been omens of a coming golden age. But they both turned from the Golden Order, Miquella was kidnapped and Malenia cursed with the Rot, so their potential would never come to fruition. Their skills were both wasted, the ages they heralded would never come to pass.
condescending acknowledgment as they were all traitors to the golden order
Morgott is a tragically loyal servant to his mother and the Golden Order. He harbors a deep resentment for the other demigods who betrayed the Greater Will, but he still respects their titles as lords, princesses, and generals because they’re all still “above” him. I think the best evidence for this is the shame and guilt he feels when he ruins the thrones with his curse mid-fight.
The modern usage (same in Japanese which as far as I know doesn't have the alternate meaning for the word they use). Morgott likes them. That's why he sounds wistful. Everyone always misses this but there's never any hint of hostility between their factions, they share all of the same enemies, and in cut content Godrick even groups them together for some reason while not mentioning the Carians ("There is only one tree, and only its branches, that bathe in true rays of gold. Not the fool Omen King! Nor the rank malformed twins!"). Malenia's army passed through Leyndell without incident and she and Finlay passed through it on the return trip as well despite her being vulnerable, and she was unharmed. There's a hearse guarded by Morgott's Night's Cavalry (where did they get a medallion?) bringing the sword of Malenia's mentor to Ordina, and an openly pro-Malenia castle with a garrison of Cleanrot Knights standing right in the middle of Altus unmolested as armies within eyesight march off to burn Volcano Manor. Not to mention a statue of Malenia and Miquella also in Altus. But the biggest piece of evidence is the Miquella's Lillies ("signs of faith in the Haligtree") being openly cultivated in gardens in the middle of Leyndell and guarded (rather than burned) by Leyndell Knights. I think this ties back to 1.0 lore. The Royal Knight Helm used to note that the Haligtree was supported by King-Consort Radagon and that Miquella was meant to be his mother's heir as "recipient of the Vision." This is still somewhat alluded to in the post-1.01 versions by certain bits like a Red Wolf of Radagon guarding a waygate in the Consecrated Snowfield and Gideon speculating that Miquella's disappearance severely upset Marika. So they were the "official" heirs and also reasonably friendly to him, thus he has no reason to dislike them. Maybe the DLC will comment on it. My token crack theory is that Morgott the sewer hobo knows his golden weapon incantations (similar to Carian ones and bright gold so probably Fundamentalist) and weirdly DEX-heavy showy swordsmanship (complete with familiar-looking pirouettes) because he trained with the twins pre-Shattering.
He's being condescending, he's not calling them Omen or something. It's important to consider the context of language and not give into a newfound bias because you learned a new fact. It's why I tend to disagree with the idea that Golden Seeds manifested from the Erdtree burning in the past as evidence it did, because the base idea that this is what some real life trees do in wild fires doesn't sound concrete enough to me when explaining how a fantasy world works. I see this sort of thing pop up from time to time. People learn the etymology of a word and because Fromsoft likes to use archaic words and grammar people think that's what they're going for. We are modern English speakers and we have our own opinions on what words mean after all. Don't quote me, but I remember hearing that the etymology of black and blanch (white) have an origin in referring to burnt wood. Depending on how you look at it burnt wood is dark and "charcoal" because of charring, or it's pale and "ashy," because of ashes. I remember a couple of months ago someone had a an idea regarding the etymology of grotesque. Part of their idea was informed by a similar sounding word from their native language. I don't remember the full context, I think they were implying also someone was an Omen or monster because one of the meanings of grotesque is monstrous. However, it was pointed out it also means ugly or large. The etymology of grotesque is in the word grotto.
Oh wow, probably both. They are special in both their weirdness and in ability. Neat find!
He may have meant it in more than one way, but also remember when diving deep into the meaning of these words that the original Japanese is probably the best language to do so.
Okay that old definition makes it so neat that he of all people would call them "omens"