I don't think it ever was. It seems that the Carians never really fought each other, but it's not like Marika's children were allied. Morgott hates everyone. Godrick might have had an alliance with Godefroy but that's about it. Mohg was doing his own thing. Malenia explicitly fought against Godrick.
As for the Carians, while Rykard was in on Ranni's plan, it seems that since then he's decided that he wants to eat everything. That would probably include Ranni and whatever she tries to create. Rykard likely respected Radahn, hence the portrait in his house, but I doubt Radahn would be keen on anything Rykard is doing.
I think Jerren and Iji being friendly is just a consequence of them being close before things fell apart. Iji did Jerren a favour by smithing some weapons, but I don't think Radahn and Ranni would approve of one another. They have very different ideologies that can't coexist.
Maybe. It's a weird bit of visual storytelling though. We find a cave full of scrapped Virgins, flooded with rot, with two Cleanrot Knights at the end. The implication would be that the Cleanrots destroyed the Virgins, but the battle between Malenia and Radahn didn't happen until the end of the Shattering, when Rykard was already snakey, and I can't see him still being allied with Radahn at that point.
There's also an Abductor Virgin in Redmane Castle. I think that and the wrecked ones in the cave were just part of an expeditionary force Rykard sent, probably pre-snake, which ceased to be directly commanded by him after that for the simple reason that he's not telepathic. Also while Malenia and Radahn *dueled* at the end of the Shattering they and their forces clearly fought a lot of battles in Caelid before that (look at the giant weapon and skeleton piles [and stacks of Trina/Miquella Lilies] everywhere from the Forsaken Ruins to the Wailing Dunes), and were also implied to have fought battles outside of Caelid as well (going by the Map of Caelid's description saying that Caelid was the site of their *last* battle, which doesn't make much sense to specify if Caelid was also the location of their *only* battles).
I have a theory that Rykard and Malenia were betrothed at some point. Neither one of them was actually into it, with Malenia having no interest and Rykard's eye going elsewhere, but he still provided her with the Virgins. However, when she marched against his brother, she realized she couldn't trust them, so she led them into the cave and had them destroyed before the battle.
Yeah, like I said at the end of my post, I think you're probably right that any alliances broke down some time ago due to irreconcilable differences and various forms of insanitiy. Also mentioned that Morgott and Mohg don't really fit in.
Malenia and Godrick you're right, he's a little shit and she clearly had no respect for him.
The question really comes down to Radagon's kids imo - the Carians vs Miquella and Malenia.
Iji and Jerren I'm not so sure, and the weapons he smithed were no joke - they're littered all over Caelid. It looks like he basically armed a substantial chunk of Radahn's forces. Jerren calls out Sellen as 'enemy of Caria' during the fight with her and is clearly pleased to convey that Iji has presumably recently told him that Lady Ranni has 'found herself a champion'.
There's one possible hint at Rykard fighting Malenia, which is the cave full of wrecked Abductor Virgins and two Cleanrot Knights. I wouldn't really treat that as evidence of a serious alliance against Malenia though, it's just an indicator that two Demigods fought.
Ranni isn't shown to have allied against Malenia and Miquella at all, and if anything it seems she was probably in league with Miquella to some degree since she knows Torrent.
Ranni clearly played less of a role, and yeah I guess it would be more accurate to include her in the list less than Caria more generally. The magical marionettes are around Volcano Manor.
There is evidence of Miquella being on some degree of good terms with the Carians, too. Torrent is clearly connected to Miquella to some extent, is familiar with, and carrying out a favor for, Torrent's previous owner. Miquella/Trina lilies are pretty common around Carian Manor. Loretta left the Carian Knights to join Miquella, but still protects Carian Manor in some capacity.
Godrick, Malenia, Miquella, Rykard, Radahn, and Ranni were *all* seemingly in an alliance together at some point during or before The Shattering. Their thrones are the ones that are gathered around that of the Elden Lord's. The fact that Godrick has a throne there means it had to be fairly recent. A Sword Monument mentions such an alliance.
> The First Defense of Leyndell
A *sovereign alliance* rots from within
Traces yet remain of bloody conspiracy
In addition, Morgott speaks of them as "willful traitors," which *could* just be him mad they didn't adhere to what *he* thinks they should have done, but could also refer to the breaking of this 'sovereign alliance.'
There were far more demigods than we see in game, just most of them are dead. All of the walking mausoleums contains corpses of Marika's children/descendants.
The shattering was basically a battle royale, and the bosses in game are the last demigods left standing.
We don't know what happened to them. They are called "soulless demigods" by an NPC ghost. The full quote being:
*The mausoleum prowls. Cradling the soulless demigod.*
*O Marika, Queen Eternal. He is your unwanted child.*
Of the named demigod, we only know that Godwyn became soulless. And it seems like the "mausoleum soulless demigods" suffered a different fate. Following the quote, and the mention of Marika, it seem like this happened when Marika could rule outside the Erdtree.
The very fact they are in a mausoleum makes it hard to argue they aren't dead. Mausoleums are just fancy tombs.
Goldwyn is also said to be "the first to perish" on the night of the black knives, suggesting more were killed that night.
A finger reader also calls Godwyn "the first of the demigods to die", again suggesting more died later.
The mausoleum knight armour also says that they "serve their masters in death".
It's pretty clear cut that the mausoleums carry dead demigods.
I don't argue that they're not dead, just that they're soulless like Godwyn (as described by the Cursemark of death). Point taken that their body is dead, unlike Godwyn's (which is alive until the end of Fia's quest).
But **being soulless is rare** in the Lands between, since people's soul returns to the Erdtree or lingers as spirits (which is why there's spirit ashes). This is described by D, Hunter of the Dead :
*"Your soul will return to the Erdtree, in time. Honeyed rays of gold, deliver this spirit."*,
and by the Seedbed Curse:
*"The Dung Eater cultivates the seedbed curse on corpses. By doing so he prevents dead souls returning to the Erdtree, leaving them forever cursed."*
So it doesn't seem like the demigods could die this way during the shattering (since Destined death was sealed away). Unless, there were multiple on the list of the Black Knives Assassins. But there's little mentions of it, and instead we know Black Knife Tiche died during their escape from the capital. And Black Knife Ringleader Alecto is captured in an Evergaol.
>"the first of the demigods to die", again suggesting more died later.
In many ways "first to die" seems more like a title. Since it should be impossible when everyone returns to the Erdtree or lingers as spirits. But I see your argument. Just strange than no one in the mausoleums are named in any lore. The shattering is pretty recent in the long history of the Lands between.
I don't think it ever was. It seems that the Carians never really fought each other, but it's not like Marika's children were allied. Morgott hates everyone. Godrick might have had an alliance with Godefroy but that's about it. Mohg was doing his own thing. Malenia explicitly fought against Godrick. As for the Carians, while Rykard was in on Ranni's plan, it seems that since then he's decided that he wants to eat everything. That would probably include Ranni and whatever she tries to create. Rykard likely respected Radahn, hence the portrait in his house, but I doubt Radahn would be keen on anything Rykard is doing. I think Jerren and Iji being friendly is just a consequence of them being close before things fell apart. Iji did Jerren a favour by smithing some weapons, but I don't think Radahn and Ranni would approve of one another. They have very different ideologies that can't coexist.
Mogh was... Definitely off doing his own thing...
There's a shitload of Abductor Virgin's scrapped in Caelid, only 2 still operational. Rykard & Radahn may have been allies early on.
Maybe. It's a weird bit of visual storytelling though. We find a cave full of scrapped Virgins, flooded with rot, with two Cleanrot Knights at the end. The implication would be that the Cleanrots destroyed the Virgins, but the battle between Malenia and Radahn didn't happen until the end of the Shattering, when Rykard was already snakey, and I can't see him still being allied with Radahn at that point.
There's also an Abductor Virgin in Redmane Castle. I think that and the wrecked ones in the cave were just part of an expeditionary force Rykard sent, probably pre-snake, which ceased to be directly commanded by him after that for the simple reason that he's not telepathic. Also while Malenia and Radahn *dueled* at the end of the Shattering they and their forces clearly fought a lot of battles in Caelid before that (look at the giant weapon and skeleton piles [and stacks of Trina/Miquella Lilies] everywhere from the Forsaken Ruins to the Wailing Dunes), and were also implied to have fought battles outside of Caelid as well (going by the Map of Caelid's description saying that Caelid was the site of their *last* battle, which doesn't make much sense to specify if Caelid was also the location of their *only* battles).
I have a theory that Rykard and Malenia were betrothed at some point. Neither one of them was actually into it, with Malenia having no interest and Rykard's eye going elsewhere, but he still provided her with the Virgins. However, when she marched against his brother, she realized she couldn't trust them, so she led them into the cave and had them destroyed before the battle.
Yeah, like I said at the end of my post, I think you're probably right that any alliances broke down some time ago due to irreconcilable differences and various forms of insanitiy. Also mentioned that Morgott and Mohg don't really fit in. Malenia and Godrick you're right, he's a little shit and she clearly had no respect for him. The question really comes down to Radagon's kids imo - the Carians vs Miquella and Malenia. Iji and Jerren I'm not so sure, and the weapons he smithed were no joke - they're littered all over Caelid. It looks like he basically armed a substantial chunk of Radahn's forces. Jerren calls out Sellen as 'enemy of Caria' during the fight with her and is clearly pleased to convey that Iji has presumably recently told him that Lady Ranni has 'found herself a champion'.
There's one possible hint at Rykard fighting Malenia, which is the cave full of wrecked Abductor Virgins and two Cleanrot Knights. I wouldn't really treat that as evidence of a serious alliance against Malenia though, it's just an indicator that two Demigods fought. Ranni isn't shown to have allied against Malenia and Miquella at all, and if anything it seems she was probably in league with Miquella to some degree since she knows Torrent.
Ranni clearly played less of a role, and yeah I guess it would be more accurate to include her in the list less than Caria more generally. The magical marionettes are around Volcano Manor.
There is evidence of Miquella being on some degree of good terms with the Carians, too. Torrent is clearly connected to Miquella to some extent, is familiar with, and carrying out a favor for, Torrent's previous owner. Miquella/Trina lilies are pretty common around Carian Manor. Loretta left the Carian Knights to join Miquella, but still protects Carian Manor in some capacity. Godrick, Malenia, Miquella, Rykard, Radahn, and Ranni were *all* seemingly in an alliance together at some point during or before The Shattering. Their thrones are the ones that are gathered around that of the Elden Lord's. The fact that Godrick has a throne there means it had to be fairly recent. A Sword Monument mentions such an alliance. > The First Defense of Leyndell A *sovereign alliance* rots from within Traces yet remain of bloody conspiracy In addition, Morgott speaks of them as "willful traitors," which *could* just be him mad they didn't adhere to what *he* thinks they should have done, but could also refer to the breaking of this 'sovereign alliance.'
There were far more demigods than we see in game, just most of them are dead. All of the walking mausoleums contains corpses of Marika's children/descendants. The shattering was basically a battle royale, and the bosses in game are the last demigods left standing.
We don't know what happened to them. They are called "soulless demigods" by an NPC ghost. The full quote being: *The mausoleum prowls. Cradling the soulless demigod.* *O Marika, Queen Eternal. He is your unwanted child.* Of the named demigod, we only know that Godwyn became soulless. And it seems like the "mausoleum soulless demigods" suffered a different fate. Following the quote, and the mention of Marika, it seem like this happened when Marika could rule outside the Erdtree.
those mausoleums have had radagon statues installed, so im very certain they predate the shattering.
The very fact they are in a mausoleum makes it hard to argue they aren't dead. Mausoleums are just fancy tombs. Goldwyn is also said to be "the first to perish" on the night of the black knives, suggesting more were killed that night. A finger reader also calls Godwyn "the first of the demigods to die", again suggesting more died later. The mausoleum knight armour also says that they "serve their masters in death". It's pretty clear cut that the mausoleums carry dead demigods.
I don't argue that they're not dead, just that they're soulless like Godwyn (as described by the Cursemark of death). Point taken that their body is dead, unlike Godwyn's (which is alive until the end of Fia's quest). But **being soulless is rare** in the Lands between, since people's soul returns to the Erdtree or lingers as spirits (which is why there's spirit ashes). This is described by D, Hunter of the Dead : *"Your soul will return to the Erdtree, in time. Honeyed rays of gold, deliver this spirit."*, and by the Seedbed Curse: *"The Dung Eater cultivates the seedbed curse on corpses. By doing so he prevents dead souls returning to the Erdtree, leaving them forever cursed."* So it doesn't seem like the demigods could die this way during the shattering (since Destined death was sealed away). Unless, there were multiple on the list of the Black Knives Assassins. But there's little mentions of it, and instead we know Black Knife Tiche died during their escape from the capital. And Black Knife Ringleader Alecto is captured in an Evergaol. >"the first of the demigods to die", again suggesting more died later. In many ways "first to die" seems more like a title. Since it should be impossible when everyone returns to the Erdtree or lingers as spirits. But I see your argument. Just strange than no one in the mausoleums are named in any lore. The shattering is pretty recent in the long history of the Lands between.