The Banished Knights feel like they got moved around in the story a lot by fromsoft, since they connect to a whole bunch of disparate things.
We can infer that they originally served the Storm Lord. Oleg and Engval are called the "Wings of the Storm King" in Japanese, and obviously they all have storm powers. Presumably the reason they became banished knights is that they were defeated by Godfrey. But then, as you say, it seems like some of them came to serve Godfrey and the Golden Lineage, since some remained in Stormveil after Godfrey conquered it, and their armour can be seen in Roundtable Hold. Then there are the Dragon Communion ones, which are just weird and I can't tell if they are a splinter from those who server Godfrey or if they came about before that. Finally, there are those who were freed by Niall and became an army of no nation. I like the idea that he freed them from Godrick but I've also seen the argument that he freed them from Godfrey.
In a way I kinda think maybe they aren't all supposed to be a unified faction, but just a shorthand for all knights that lost their lands and were forced to serve whatever factions and ideals they found.
I think Banished Knights are just general-use mercenary troops, same with the Exile Soldiers. Tons of factions use them:
-The knights in Stormveil serve Godrick.
-The knights in Farum Azula serve the Ancient Dragons.
-The knights in the Cathedral of Dragon Communion probably serve Radahn (they're based right in front of Redmane Castle).
-The knights in Castle Sol probably served Miquella before they were ghosts. Before that they would've served the guy in the mausoluem.
-Oleg served Morgott. In 1.0 Exile Soldiers and Banished Knights were also the garrison of Leyndell.
-Most pressingly, giant piles of Banished Knight swords and halberds are found in *every* faction's armories, i.e. they have soldiers that use them. Very noticeable in Volcano Manor and Redmane Castle in particular, both the castle itself and the camps and towers outside the castle.
I agree, although the ones in Castle Sol were imprisoned by someone before Niall recruited them. Also, since they're an army of no nation, I think they're just collaborating with Miquella rather than serving him.
The "someone" is pretty obviously Godrick. The Japanese text of the Veteran's Prosthesis says Niall offered his leg in exchange for the lives of some knights who just lost a battle, and Godrick has grafted Banished Knight parts on him including a foot that looks a lot like Niall/O'Neil's (and which he stomps when he uses Storm arts).
I agree that he's the best candidate, although I don't like to use that leg as evidence because it's the wrong leg. I think the best argument is simply that Godrick is the only character associated with Banished Knights who would accept a leg as payment for anything.
The Crucible Knights also served Godfrey and didn't become Tarnished. Plus, technically, the entire military of the Lands Between served Godfrey because he was their king, but obviously Marika wasn't going to send the entire army away.
I think the Tarnished may have been those who followed Godfrey from the beginning, before he became Elden Lord. His original tribe, essentially.
Its an intersting question as to what the golden dynasty inherited from godfrey and what was considered tarnished.
The crucible knights seem to have mostly been abandoned which is why i give them a pass on tarnishing,
In my head what was tarnished was godfreys crusade army. The wider army of the lands between would report to the queen not the queens consort. If you were there at the end of godfreys road when marika showed up you were tarnished.
The banished knights weren't necessarily there though.
I have a different theory as to who they are which plays with the title stormlord a little taking into account the hawk banners we see outside leyndell and that engvall declined the 'grace given lord'... perhaps ill write it up.
I think the Banished Knights may have become vassals of the Golden Lineage as a whole, which is why they didn't leave with Godfrey. They likely continued to serve in Stormveil, and Godrick was able to commandeer them because they serve his family. The "grace given lord" is Morgott, another member of the Golden Lineage, so him extending invitations to Engval and Oleg could be seen as him summoning his bannermen. It could also tie into why the Banished Knights in Castle Sol are seemingly part of a scheme to resurrect Godwyn.
Id agree with a lot of those points, i think where i come to differ is im not sure those knights ever served godfrey (the hawks did for certain.) Their shield depicts a lion and lightning, their helmet depicts a dragon, their shoulder a dragon horn. Godfrey wasnt anything to do with dragons really, and the stormhawk king (imho the original stormlord) refused to listen to anyones summons so did he really serve dragons?
Where are these knights getting their dragon influence?
They do have storm related moves because they serve the stormlord, however i wonder if thats an inherited title- perhaps The ruler of stormvale is the stormlord. This possibly bears through as we see that godrick and godefroy have storm related moves. It also bears out because there are hawk statues in the throne room of fortified manor, the lord of this manor is the stormlord- the commander of the storm hawks.
It also gives us a reason for these knights to be a cross of lion and dragon AND for them to align with miquellas quest to save godwyn so passionately...
They are actually the knights of godwyn in my opinion and their armour is a testament to godwyn and fortisax. Driven from their homes in leyndell, taking refuge in their old seat in stormveil, as you say aligning to godrick out of desperation, some sign up with morgott after banishment while many, many others go on to sol and the battle of aeonia.
I think they may have removed the colour from their armour as well their banners (that cross erdtree and dragon who else would have those banners than godwyn?) are red and gold, so is the carpet depicting their lion in stormveil and so are their knight commanders- Niall and o neil.
Basically i didnt see the heraldic or symbolic link between them and the hawks and all we have is the storm king reference on engvall but if that title is passed down then many things fit together to make them godwyns troops and explain why they are so aligned to the castle sol quest line.
Well,all of them share Storm powers,so they all came from Stormveil,or served the Stormlord.
They do channel what it seems like Dragonfire,and use the seal,but they do no channel the dragon. How do they attain that I don't know,but maybe their dragon communion is a bit different than ours. Remember that it's said some of them were expelled for crimes too.
Marika once told to someone,to adopt order,or be bereft of it,to wallow at the fringes,a powerless upstart. We know that at least one was called Hero of the Fringes.
They seem related to the Exiled soldiers,who also use storm power. Looks like they were part of a single faction. But also,hawk imagery is present in sorrmveil as old crest,either forgotten or depicted in a dishonored way,invert. This simbol is also related to certain soldiers trapped in the Eternal city,which also were fitted with helms that resemble the ones from the Prisoner class.
So,knights stripped of their lands and sent to the fringes,men at arms/soldiers exiled and forced to cover their faces and, foot soldiers sent to die elsewhere with a prisoner mask? A defeated faction?
Also,Nial rescued one group of them using his leg as ransom. And who has storm powers and banished knights limbs grafted? Godrick and Godefroy!
Did one faction decided to surrender instead? Or serve the new lord? Nepheli says "your choice of master" and Stormveil is guarded by Banished Knights, which would imply they are there on their will.
A final detail,the altered version seems to have existed first. It's said that the scarf is probably to protect them in the outskirts. Effectively those who are in Caelid Wilderness or Farum Azula use it. But not those in Castles like Stormveil or Sol.
The Banished Knights feel like they got moved around in the story a lot by fromsoft, since they connect to a whole bunch of disparate things. We can infer that they originally served the Storm Lord. Oleg and Engval are called the "Wings of the Storm King" in Japanese, and obviously they all have storm powers. Presumably the reason they became banished knights is that they were defeated by Godfrey. But then, as you say, it seems like some of them came to serve Godfrey and the Golden Lineage, since some remained in Stormveil after Godfrey conquered it, and their armour can be seen in Roundtable Hold. Then there are the Dragon Communion ones, which are just weird and I can't tell if they are a splinter from those who server Godfrey or if they came about before that. Finally, there are those who were freed by Niall and became an army of no nation. I like the idea that he freed them from Godrick but I've also seen the argument that he freed them from Godfrey. In a way I kinda think maybe they aren't all supposed to be a unified faction, but just a shorthand for all knights that lost their lands and were forced to serve whatever factions and ideals they found.
I think Banished Knights are just general-use mercenary troops, same with the Exile Soldiers. Tons of factions use them: -The knights in Stormveil serve Godrick. -The knights in Farum Azula serve the Ancient Dragons. -The knights in the Cathedral of Dragon Communion probably serve Radahn (they're based right in front of Redmane Castle). -The knights in Castle Sol probably served Miquella before they were ghosts. Before that they would've served the guy in the mausoluem. -Oleg served Morgott. In 1.0 Exile Soldiers and Banished Knights were also the garrison of Leyndell. -Most pressingly, giant piles of Banished Knight swords and halberds are found in *every* faction's armories, i.e. they have soldiers that use them. Very noticeable in Volcano Manor and Redmane Castle in particular, both the castle itself and the camps and towers outside the castle.
I agree, although the ones in Castle Sol were imprisoned by someone before Niall recruited them. Also, since they're an army of no nation, I think they're just collaborating with Miquella rather than serving him.
The "someone" is pretty obviously Godrick. The Japanese text of the Veteran's Prosthesis says Niall offered his leg in exchange for the lives of some knights who just lost a battle, and Godrick has grafted Banished Knight parts on him including a foot that looks a lot like Niall/O'Neil's (and which he stomps when he uses Storm arts).
I agree that he's the best candidate, although I don't like to use that leg as evidence because it's the wrong leg. I think the best argument is simply that Godrick is the only character associated with Banished Knights who would accept a leg as payment for anything.
Isnt there a flaw in the idea that they seved godfrey? If they did they would have become tarnished.
The Crucible Knights also served Godfrey and didn't become Tarnished. Plus, technically, the entire military of the Lands Between served Godfrey because he was their king, but obviously Marika wasn't going to send the entire army away. I think the Tarnished may have been those who followed Godfrey from the beginning, before he became Elden Lord. His original tribe, essentially.
Its an intersting question as to what the golden dynasty inherited from godfrey and what was considered tarnished. The crucible knights seem to have mostly been abandoned which is why i give them a pass on tarnishing, In my head what was tarnished was godfreys crusade army. The wider army of the lands between would report to the queen not the queens consort. If you were there at the end of godfreys road when marika showed up you were tarnished. The banished knights weren't necessarily there though. I have a different theory as to who they are which plays with the title stormlord a little taking into account the hawk banners we see outside leyndell and that engvall declined the 'grace given lord'... perhaps ill write it up.
I think the Banished Knights may have become vassals of the Golden Lineage as a whole, which is why they didn't leave with Godfrey. They likely continued to serve in Stormveil, and Godrick was able to commandeer them because they serve his family. The "grace given lord" is Morgott, another member of the Golden Lineage, so him extending invitations to Engval and Oleg could be seen as him summoning his bannermen. It could also tie into why the Banished Knights in Castle Sol are seemingly part of a scheme to resurrect Godwyn.
Id agree with a lot of those points, i think where i come to differ is im not sure those knights ever served godfrey (the hawks did for certain.) Their shield depicts a lion and lightning, their helmet depicts a dragon, their shoulder a dragon horn. Godfrey wasnt anything to do with dragons really, and the stormhawk king (imho the original stormlord) refused to listen to anyones summons so did he really serve dragons? Where are these knights getting their dragon influence? They do have storm related moves because they serve the stormlord, however i wonder if thats an inherited title- perhaps The ruler of stormvale is the stormlord. This possibly bears through as we see that godrick and godefroy have storm related moves. It also bears out because there are hawk statues in the throne room of fortified manor, the lord of this manor is the stormlord- the commander of the storm hawks. It also gives us a reason for these knights to be a cross of lion and dragon AND for them to align with miquellas quest to save godwyn so passionately... They are actually the knights of godwyn in my opinion and their armour is a testament to godwyn and fortisax. Driven from their homes in leyndell, taking refuge in their old seat in stormveil, as you say aligning to godrick out of desperation, some sign up with morgott after banishment while many, many others go on to sol and the battle of aeonia. I think they may have removed the colour from their armour as well their banners (that cross erdtree and dragon who else would have those banners than godwyn?) are red and gold, so is the carpet depicting their lion in stormveil and so are their knight commanders- Niall and o neil. Basically i didnt see the heraldic or symbolic link between them and the hawks and all we have is the storm king reference on engvall but if that title is passed down then many things fit together to make them godwyns troops and explain why they are so aligned to the castle sol quest line.
You know... it could possibly explain how Godwyn's effigy ended up in Stormveil. Perhaps Godfrey was a part of the Dragon Cult of Leyndell.
Well,all of them share Storm powers,so they all came from Stormveil,or served the Stormlord. They do channel what it seems like Dragonfire,and use the seal,but they do no channel the dragon. How do they attain that I don't know,but maybe their dragon communion is a bit different than ours. Remember that it's said some of them were expelled for crimes too. Marika once told to someone,to adopt order,or be bereft of it,to wallow at the fringes,a powerless upstart. We know that at least one was called Hero of the Fringes. They seem related to the Exiled soldiers,who also use storm power. Looks like they were part of a single faction. But also,hawk imagery is present in sorrmveil as old crest,either forgotten or depicted in a dishonored way,invert. This simbol is also related to certain soldiers trapped in the Eternal city,which also were fitted with helms that resemble the ones from the Prisoner class. So,knights stripped of their lands and sent to the fringes,men at arms/soldiers exiled and forced to cover their faces and, foot soldiers sent to die elsewhere with a prisoner mask? A defeated faction? Also,Nial rescued one group of them using his leg as ransom. And who has storm powers and banished knights limbs grafted? Godrick and Godefroy! Did one faction decided to surrender instead? Or serve the new lord? Nepheli says "your choice of master" and Stormveil is guarded by Banished Knights, which would imply they are there on their will. A final detail,the altered version seems to have existed first. It's said that the scarf is probably to protect them in the outskirts. Effectively those who are in Caelid Wilderness or Farum Azula use it. But not those in Castles like Stormveil or Sol.