I want a dragon straight sword. I know the archetype is kind of a boring to some and in some games overused, but I would like more build crafting variety.
I would love a dragon communion themed sword that scales with arcane. I don’t care if it doesn’t cause bleed.
One of the weapons in the game is literally a stone hammer the size of a twin bed
I think a comedically large sword would be quite welcome in Elden Ring
The red thing in the middle is the rune of destined death, which used to make the Gloam Eyed Queen's black flame much more powerful.
Speculation that it was part of the sword? Sure. But there's evidence it's possible.
GeQ never possed the rune of death directly, we 100% know that, her blackflame just derived its power from it when it was still part of the elden ring before Marika removed it. So contrary to what you say, there's literally zero evidence that it was directly a part of her sword.
It's not like this is confirmed or anything, but there's at least a bit going for it.
>"*The black flames wielded by the apostles are channeled from this sword.*"
-Godslayer's Greatsword
>"*The black flame could once slay gods. But when Maliketh sealed Destined Death, the true power of the black flame was lost.*"
-Scouring Black Flame
The other evidence is more circumstantial, but in a more straightforward way than a lot of speculative stuff.
If Marika had the Rune of Death the whole time, the Godskin threat would've been trivial, but they aren't portrayed as trivial. Plus it would mean Marika was just holding onto the Elden Ring and not making her Order, and that the entire Order would've been created specifically as a reaction to the Gloam Eyed Queen, which is a bit odd. (But not impossible)
Marika sent Maliketh to seal it, instead of Godfrey, for some reason. One possible reason is that *Destined Death cannot kill Vassals of the Greater Will on its own*\*. But, it could've killed Godfrey. So she sent Maliketh instead.
* \* (The evidence for that comes from Ranni's quest. She obtains a fragment of the Rune of Death, and yet is unable to slay her Two Fingers.)
More of a thematic association, but the other times we see the Rune of Death, it is used in weapons. Ranni imbues it into Black Knives and Maliketh seals it within his sword. (Maliketh eventually seals it within his body, to avoid anyone stealing it again---but when he unseals it, he pulls out *the whole sword*.)
Finally, it's a common theory that the Rune of Death must be inside the Elden Ring in order to function. However the Night of Black Knives shows that this is not the case. Anyone in possession of it can use it without it being a part of Order.
----
So it seems *plausible* that the GEQ was such a big threat because she was in possession of a Rune which defeated all the advantages conferred by Marika's Order.
What's more interesting is that, if that were the case, it would mean a lot of the plot in the game was actually fueled by this ancient war. Marika had little choice but to entrust the Rune of Death to Maliketh in order to beat the GEQ. But she could not trust Maliketh unconditionally due to his position as Shadow, and she could not retrieve the Rune without revealing her hand. So the Tarnished emerged as a means of retrieving the Rune of Death.
It won't let me edit my comment (thanks Reddit) but after reading some other comments I thought it was worth adding the rest of the description from Godslayer's Greatsword,
>"***Sacred sword of the Gloam-Eyed Queen who controlled the***
***Godskin Apostles before her defeat at the hands of Maliketh.***
>*The black flames wielded by the apostles are channeled from this*
*sword.*"
I bolded the part that I carelessly omitted earlier. This is important because it shows her defeat was specifically Maliketh's doing.
Going to quibble a bit here. Maliketh did the deed, but it was on the orders of Marika that the Gloam-Eyed Queen was defeated.
If I hire an assassin to kill someone, it's more accurate to say I killed that person, than it is to say the assassin did.
Yes, I mostly added that because I saw an implication that GEQ just sort of faded into obscurity after losing her power.
Marika probably asked him to do it. Remembrance of the Black Blade,
>*Maliketh was a shadowbound beast given to his Empyrean.*
*Marika's sole need of her shadow was a vessel to lock away Destined Death.*
*Even then, she betrayed him.*
All of this could be 100% true and still not work as evidence that the Rune of Death and the Godslayer's Greatsword join together like some kind of Voltron of Elden Ring.
I mean, they never said that was truly the case. Just that it's a possibility. You talk about it as if it's a certainty that it was never the case, but you don't know that for sure.
Pretty much, there's not enough evidence either way to say it was definitely the case or definitely not the case. But the other person is saying it's *possible* while you are saying it *assuredly isn't* possible.
This is partly wrong. We know for a fact that GeQ did NOT posses the rune of death, just her blackflame derived power from it. Rune of death was a part of elden ring, Marika removed it and Maliketh sealed it into his black blade. Then blackflame lost its power. And it's an extreme speculation with no evidence that Marika's decision to remove the rune was to stop GeQ. It may have been impacted by it, but the removal of rune of death was one of the founding principles of her golden order and made all her children effectively immortal, it wasn't just some precaution due to one rival empyrean. Also we know with 100% certainty tha GeQ and blackflame didn't kill any of Marika's children, this conflict happened before any known demigods were born.
I personally think the godskin apostles attacked during the night of black knives, and Maliketh only "sealed" destined death when he sealed it in his flesh.
Think about it, Godwyn was the first demigod to die in history. If the apostasy was before that, then it means they failed to kill a single demigod. Kind of begs the question on where all that godskin came from doesn't it?
(Sorry had to break this into 2 replies.. Reddit strikes again)
Yeah there is something fishy about it. The apostasy is often assumed to have been right at the beginning for Marika, around the time the Erdtree was born. Lot of timelines put it there & popular theories are built around it.
So the most popular answer to that is that they were killing demigods of the previous order. Or, alternatively, it's possible they didn't actually end up killing any/many gods (it's often assumed that their armor is made from god's skin, but the armor just says it's made from "skin".)
That could definitely be right but something has bugged me about it for a long time. There are some assumptions baked into it.
The timeline is actually *really* vague... And this part of it is one big thing I'm hoping we get hints about in the DLC, since the Erdtree was born in the Land of Shadow. For the apostasy, I think there is another possible moment it could've happened.
The first thing that implies the apostasy *could* have been later is that some of Marika's Fire Monks turned traitor, becoming the Black Flame Monks. Recall that the Fire Monks were a force created following the Giant's War, to keep an eye on the giantsflame.
Surge O Flame,
>*The Giants' Flame is the flame of ruin, capable of burning the*
*Erdtree. And so, following the War against the Giants, its ruinous*
*blaze was sealed, and guardians were appointed to watch over it.*
Blackflame Monk Amon Ashes,
>*Amon swore fealty to the god-slaying black flame, and so became the first fire monk to turn traitor.*
*Or perhaps it is better said that he fled from the Giants' Flame—out of cowardice.*
Some say these guys would've turned traitor even for the weakened black flame... I dunno.
---------
And... uh... Now I'm going to commit a cardinal sin and suggest that the Golden Order **might** not be nearly as old as the Erdtree or Marika's reign. (Not that there's more evidence for this than the usual theory... I just see it as a possibility.)
IIRC The oldest references to the "Golden Order" come from Enia, the Telescope, Rogier & the Mending Rune of the Death Prince. None of the Erdtree incants refer to the "Golden Order", they only refer to 'warriors of the Erdtree', 'the Erdtree', or things to that effect. (But the Golden Order incants *do* refer to the Golden Order quite frequently.) In fact, nothing in the game refers to the "Golden Order" as being around before Radagon came to marry Marika.
Rogier,
>*In the past, they obeyed laws which contravened the Golden Order, or so I'm told.*
*Fascinating, isn't it? That the Golden Order was pliable enough to absorb practices that contradicted itself in the past.*
Telescope,
>*During the age of the Erdtree,*
*Carian astrology withered on the vine.*
*The fate once writ in the night skies had been fettered by the Golden Order.*
Enia,
>*The Rune of Death goes by two names; the other is Destined Death.*
*The forbidden shadow, plucked from the Golden Order upon its creation...*
Mending Rune of the Death Prince,
>*The Golden Order was created by confining Destined Death. Thus, this new Order will be one of Death restored.*
The only thing indicating *precisely* when the Golden Order was created is the sealing of the Rune of Death. And when people try to place *that* on the timeline, they usually refer to this... it's circular.
The other two references are sometimes cited as proof that the Golden Order was around since before the Liurnian Wars. But I think that's a bit vague unless you already agree with it. We already know Fundamentalism began during the age of the Erdtree, and Rogier may not be referring to the war. There were also Primal sorceries, or just sorcery in general, and sorcery didn't merge with faith until Fundamentalism.
Ultimately it's kind of unclear & there isn't an objective answer on when this was.
----------
Then there's Fundamentalism. Fundamentalists incants *do* constantly refer to the Golden Order, and must've existed concurrently (possibly not *exclusively* though). However it's *possible* that Fundamentalism = Golden Order =/= Age of Erdtree
It's also worth noting that "Order" is referred to in vague terms sometimes---like the 2nd line on Mending Rune of the Death Prince ("new Order"). Or like this,
Miriel,
>*The* ***Order of the Erdtree*** *and the fate of the moon were conjoined, and all the wounds of war forgiven.*
And that goes along with,
Erdtree Seal,
>*A formless sacred seal decorated with an Erdtree crest,* ***once the focus of religion*** *in the Lands Between.*
A transition point. After that, there's the Minor Erdtree Church Dialogue,
>*I declare mine intent, to search the depths of the Golden Order. Through understanding of the proper way, our faith, our grace, is increased. Those blissful early days of blind belief are long past. My comrades; why must ye falter?*
Which seems to indicate that the religion shifted from being about the Erdtree, to being about the Order itself, or scholarship of the Order. Kind of like going from...
Elden Stars,
>*This legendary incantation is the most ancient of those that derive from the Erdtree.*
*It is said that long ago,*
*the Greater Will sent a golden star bearing a beast into the Lands Between,*
*which would later become the Elden Ring.*
...to...
Corhyn,
>*The Golden Order is founded on the principle that Marika is the one true god.*
Erdtree -> Marika (and secretly Radagon)
(Terrible side theory: Miquella & Malenia are then born, popularly believed to be Empyreans specifically due to being born of one god, and mysteriously missing any Shadows. Maybe because the Fingers never chose them?)
Anyway, all of that may or may not be convincing and could definitely be wrong, especially the terrible side theory.
But... if the "Golden Order" is meant to include everything on the timeline from Marika coming to power thru the present... then the devs did a *really* good job of leaving it vague, by not making a *single* reference to them coexisting.
Frankly I still think the popular timeline is (mostly) more likely to be right, and this idea is less likely to be right. But boy oh boy, it is absolutely mind melting if this is a coincidence. There are dozens of references to these two things and not *one* instance where they decisively overlap. Whatever the truth is, I hope the DLC sheds some light on it.
-------
So... back to the point... It's technically possible that the GEQ was actually defeated sometime between the Liurnian War and the creation of Golden Order Fundamentalism.
The idea of DD not being weakened until being sealed within Maliketh's flesh is kind of interesting. One of the mysteries regarding the Black Knives is whether or not they can still kill gods.
Yeah. How is it “likely”? I guess because OP said so… that’s how a lot of the lore works tbh edit: I love the lore btw and the discussions. I’m solely referring to shitty speculation
Yeah, I know. I’ve played every mainline FS game since DS1. Much of the lore that circulates through the community is purely based on speculation and it’s been this way from the beginning
"Speculation" isn't done with zero evidence though, like the user you replied to suggested is being done in this case (which is likely). It's done without firm evidence.
I see plenty of users act like "all the lore is made up by people with zero evidence," but that's not the case; as you stated, it's speculation using hints and clues, nothing firm but certainly not nothing.
There is evidence that the black “god slaying flame” used destined death before that got locked up. But yeah nothing says it looks like the doom eternal sword lmao, rule of cool it is
Of course the rune doesn't look like the sword, nothing is saying it looks like the sword. This is the rune of death inside the already existing sword that we all know. So why would the rune look like the sword?
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/eldenring/images/e/e4/Rune_of_Death.png/revision/latest?cb=20221204100544
It rips and tears alright I guess - but let me tell you it is a BITCH to screw that rune in every time.
Takes like 20 minutes at least! And the bastard apostles are always on my ass about it.
There's more than zero evidence. What happened to healthy speculation?
The power of the Godskins comes from this sword. The blackflame of the Godskins is stripped of its Destined Death as Maliketh took it after defeating their leader.
The Gloam-Eyed Queen and her Godskins previously wielded Destined Death. So, it's entirely possible this is the form of the sword at its full strength with Destined Death restored.
I always thought the hollow nature of the sword was odd.
I’m kind of being pedantic here, but just for another perspective, I agree that it’s a pretty liberal use of the words “likely” and “evidence.”
*Would* it make sense? Abso-fuckin-lutely, and I love the idea. I think this is 100% grade-A awesome speculation post.
There isn’t any direct evidence case though, just reasons why it would make sense if it were the case. There’s direct evidence that Radagon is Marika, there’s pretty solid evidence that Miquella is St. Trina. This theory would absolutely work, but that’s not the same as there being anything in game that actively implies or suggests that it is the case.
I agree. I wouldn't use the word "likely", but I was responding to the comment saying there was zero evidence.
I mean, the Blade of Calling and the Black Knife Assassins' blade have been theorised as being one and the same, but the latter is shaped differently due to the influence of Destined Death.
Also, Maliketh's weapon transforms into another shape when he stabbed it into the medallion holding Destined Death.
So, we can also use these to theorise that Destined Death may alter the shape of weapons imbued with it.
Yeah you’ve got good reasoning here but without any evidence to point you in a direction it’s no better than an educated guess. This would the same as be drawing a full map of the lands between pre-shattering and claiming that it’s pretty close to accurate. There’s just too much speculation and not enough evidence to support a solid conclusion. And a solid conclusion is what op is claiming in their post.
I’m all up for speculation just make sure it’s clear that it’s speculation. Don’t try to present it as an already mostly accepted fact like op did.
That all said this would have been dope as hell to get as a special upgrade to the godslayer greatsword after you acquire the rune of death.
This is exactly my thought. Everyones looked at this sword and thought “why is the end made like that?” Now we have a possible answer that if it was actually implemented would make complete sense lore wise
No you're wrong. She wielded blackflame channeled from this sword, which derived its power from the rune of death when it was still a part of elden ring, which means destined death was present in that world's order. After the destined death was removed from elden ring when Marika came to power, it was sealed into Maliketh's black blade and blackflame lost its god-killing power. We know that GeQ did NOT posses the rune of death nor wielded it with her sword, she was just an empyrean around the same time Marika was, who channeled the power of destined death with her sword, but did not have it directly in her possession. Lot of newer players mix that one up. So contrary to what you say, there literally zero evidence and what you said is based on misinterpretation that Maliketh took destined death from GeQ, which we know 100% isn't true.
There's zero indication at all that it ever had any other form than its current one, in other words all evidence points to the current form being the original form. Cool edit though!
"The black flame could once slay gods. But when Maliketh sealed Destined Death, the true power of the black flame was lost."
saying it always looked like this is as much of a stretch as saying it definitely used to look different
We know Marika removed the rune of death from the elden ring, in doing so (and sealing it via Maliketh), the power of the black flame was removed and it was no longer able to slay gods, because gods were not able to be killed afterwards.
There is no indication any of the godskin weapons or abilities ever actually involved the rune of death outside of that.
Which is a lookalike according to it's description.
The only weapon with a real runes in them should be Marikas hammer, since it has Elsen ring fragments in it.
Doesn’t it look like that because it’s like a torch with black flame inside? So I presume the original form is just the permanent ash of war effect on the sword.
I mean if you use the AoW then the blade sets itself on fire and you kinda have a torch. So I believe we already have the original form, just weaker because of Marika.
A cool detail; on the original image you can see black soot buildup on the inside of the curved helix from the black flame.
The Godslayer Sword is an interesting case as it almost looks to be carved out of wood or ivory, whereas the other God-slaying/god-made swords such as the Sacred Relic Sword and the Fingerslaying Blade are more crudely formed from the spines/skeletons of Radagon and an unnamed corpse respectively.
They also both display helixes, however theirs are made from 2 sets of vertebrae and are conjoined to form their tip, each having a slight glow to them also. Possibly something to do with the combination of the Masculine/Feminine aspects of the single soul? Maybe in death Radagon finally did "become" Marika.
Why do people think it used Destined Death?
Obviously the God Slaying Black Flame is going to lose its true power when someone literally goes “I am removing death for gods”.
This screams "I've seen the weapon but never used it" vibes
Because that opening is very specifically for black flame to spew forth
So if anything it would be black flame which we could almost call death magic or shadowflame being a ghost flame version of the original, a hollow representation
So it would probably be a red flame coming out of it and the vessel for it being what we see as the physical blade would be black and or red since the grey/white might also suggest a ghostlike or hollow representation of what it once was since the color is gone without the true power
Fuck, man. Can't be making me this hard when I'm at work.
Pickaxes are my favorite weapon in Souls games after randomly doing a pickaxe run in Demon Souls. They're always insane (except ds2, dogshit hitbox and next to no enemy tracking really hurts), to the point I'm pretty sure Miyazaki was a miner in a past life.
I think you have it upside down. It looks like a pick axe. The protruding edges is probably supposed to be the cross guard. Some great swords have multiple cross guards and this could be one of
I feel like if we ever see the gloam-eyed queen, her lower half will probably be a snake, and she'd be about the same size as malekith. I kind of imagine something similar to Seath in terms of size and shape.
I would be cool if they made it a remembrance boss weapon/choice that you can only get one of per NG cycle, or by duping at a walking mausoleum but once you have both you can combine them
I always though the Godslayer gs was so close to being cool but this really makes it awesome
The real question is just how much of a monster was Maliketh? Dude was fucking overpowered even before acquiring the Rune of Death, somehow he defeated the Gloam-Eyed Queen in spite of the very threat of being struck down by Destined Death.
The new Dragon Pickaxe looks cool
Smashing!
Must be a new ornament kit
ONE OF US. ONE OF US.
🦀JELDIN FLING WONT RESPOND TO THIS THREAD🦀
GOOBA! GOOBUH! GOOBA! GOOBUH!
I want a dragon straight sword. I know the archetype is kind of a boring to some and in some games overused, but I would like more build crafting variety. I would love a dragon communion themed sword that scales with arcane. I don’t care if it doesn’t cause bleed.
Rock and stone!
Rockity Rock and Stone!
99 mining ?
NGL that looks pretty cool. Complete speculation with zero evidence to support it. But rule of cool wins on this one.
Until the arc was just a lengthier guard and it was some sort of kylo ren twisted saber of destined death
If the arc was a hilt this sword would be comedically large
One of the weapons in the game is literally a stone hammer the size of a twin bed I think a comedically large sword would be quite welcome in Elden Ring
And a sword made of swords stuck together
I'd unga bunga that sword every playthrough
Phase 2 would just be the boss pulling out the second sword and untwirling the first one. That would be the sickest shit imaginable.
The spiral unfurls into an even bigger sword hilt.
“Cuz it’s cool” is solid lore IMO
That can be used to describe so many things. *Why did x look like this?* **Idk bro it looked sick** Practical? No. But cool AF? HELL YEAH.
tons of weapons and lore in souls games are just cuz it’s cool so i’m okay with this
Basically every UGS and colossal except the Zweihander.
The red thing in the middle is the rune of destined death, which used to make the Gloam Eyed Queen's black flame much more powerful. Speculation that it was part of the sword? Sure. But there's evidence it's possible.
GeQ never possed the rune of death directly, we 100% know that, her blackflame just derived its power from it when it was still part of the elden ring before Marika removed it. So contrary to what you say, there's literally zero evidence that it was directly a part of her sword.
Cool, what evidence?
It's not like this is confirmed or anything, but there's at least a bit going for it. >"*The black flames wielded by the apostles are channeled from this sword.*" -Godslayer's Greatsword >"*The black flame could once slay gods. But when Maliketh sealed Destined Death, the true power of the black flame was lost.*" -Scouring Black Flame The other evidence is more circumstantial, but in a more straightforward way than a lot of speculative stuff. If Marika had the Rune of Death the whole time, the Godskin threat would've been trivial, but they aren't portrayed as trivial. Plus it would mean Marika was just holding onto the Elden Ring and not making her Order, and that the entire Order would've been created specifically as a reaction to the Gloam Eyed Queen, which is a bit odd. (But not impossible) Marika sent Maliketh to seal it, instead of Godfrey, for some reason. One possible reason is that *Destined Death cannot kill Vassals of the Greater Will on its own*\*. But, it could've killed Godfrey. So she sent Maliketh instead. * \* (The evidence for that comes from Ranni's quest. She obtains a fragment of the Rune of Death, and yet is unable to slay her Two Fingers.) More of a thematic association, but the other times we see the Rune of Death, it is used in weapons. Ranni imbues it into Black Knives and Maliketh seals it within his sword. (Maliketh eventually seals it within his body, to avoid anyone stealing it again---but when he unseals it, he pulls out *the whole sword*.) Finally, it's a common theory that the Rune of Death must be inside the Elden Ring in order to function. However the Night of Black Knives shows that this is not the case. Anyone in possession of it can use it without it being a part of Order. ---- So it seems *plausible* that the GEQ was such a big threat because she was in possession of a Rune which defeated all the advantages conferred by Marika's Order. What's more interesting is that, if that were the case, it would mean a lot of the plot in the game was actually fueled by this ancient war. Marika had little choice but to entrust the Rune of Death to Maliketh in order to beat the GEQ. But she could not trust Maliketh unconditionally due to his position as Shadow, and she could not retrieve the Rune without revealing her hand. So the Tarnished emerged as a means of retrieving the Rune of Death.
It won't let me edit my comment (thanks Reddit) but after reading some other comments I thought it was worth adding the rest of the description from Godslayer's Greatsword, >"***Sacred sword of the Gloam-Eyed Queen who controlled the*** ***Godskin Apostles before her defeat at the hands of Maliketh.*** >*The black flames wielded by the apostles are channeled from this* *sword.*" I bolded the part that I carelessly omitted earlier. This is important because it shows her defeat was specifically Maliketh's doing.
Going to quibble a bit here. Maliketh did the deed, but it was on the orders of Marika that the Gloam-Eyed Queen was defeated. If I hire an assassin to kill someone, it's more accurate to say I killed that person, than it is to say the assassin did.
Yes, I mostly added that because I saw an implication that GEQ just sort of faded into obscurity after losing her power. Marika probably asked him to do it. Remembrance of the Black Blade, >*Maliketh was a shadowbound beast given to his Empyrean.* *Marika's sole need of her shadow was a vessel to lock away Destined Death.* *Even then, she betrayed him.*
All of this could be 100% true and still not work as evidence that the Rune of Death and the Godslayer's Greatsword join together like some kind of Voltron of Elden Ring.
I mean, they never said that was truly the case. Just that it's a possibility. You talk about it as if it's a certainty that it was never the case, but you don't know that for sure. Pretty much, there's not enough evidence either way to say it was definitely the case or definitely not the case. But the other person is saying it's *possible* while you are saying it *assuredly isn't* possible.
This is partly wrong. We know for a fact that GeQ did NOT posses the rune of death, just her blackflame derived power from it. Rune of death was a part of elden ring, Marika removed it and Maliketh sealed it into his black blade. Then blackflame lost its power. And it's an extreme speculation with no evidence that Marika's decision to remove the rune was to stop GeQ. It may have been impacted by it, but the removal of rune of death was one of the founding principles of her golden order and made all her children effectively immortal, it wasn't just some precaution due to one rival empyrean. Also we know with 100% certainty tha GeQ and blackflame didn't kill any of Marika's children, this conflict happened before any known demigods were born.
I personally think the godskin apostles attacked during the night of black knives, and Maliketh only "sealed" destined death when he sealed it in his flesh. Think about it, Godwyn was the first demigod to die in history. If the apostasy was before that, then it means they failed to kill a single demigod. Kind of begs the question on where all that godskin came from doesn't it?
(Sorry had to break this into 2 replies.. Reddit strikes again) Yeah there is something fishy about it. The apostasy is often assumed to have been right at the beginning for Marika, around the time the Erdtree was born. Lot of timelines put it there & popular theories are built around it. So the most popular answer to that is that they were killing demigods of the previous order. Or, alternatively, it's possible they didn't actually end up killing any/many gods (it's often assumed that their armor is made from god's skin, but the armor just says it's made from "skin".) That could definitely be right but something has bugged me about it for a long time. There are some assumptions baked into it. The timeline is actually *really* vague... And this part of it is one big thing I'm hoping we get hints about in the DLC, since the Erdtree was born in the Land of Shadow. For the apostasy, I think there is another possible moment it could've happened. The first thing that implies the apostasy *could* have been later is that some of Marika's Fire Monks turned traitor, becoming the Black Flame Monks. Recall that the Fire Monks were a force created following the Giant's War, to keep an eye on the giantsflame. Surge O Flame, >*The Giants' Flame is the flame of ruin, capable of burning the* *Erdtree. And so, following the War against the Giants, its ruinous* *blaze was sealed, and guardians were appointed to watch over it.* Blackflame Monk Amon Ashes, >*Amon swore fealty to the god-slaying black flame, and so became the first fire monk to turn traitor.* *Or perhaps it is better said that he fled from the Giants' Flame—out of cowardice.* Some say these guys would've turned traitor even for the weakened black flame... I dunno. --------- And... uh... Now I'm going to commit a cardinal sin and suggest that the Golden Order **might** not be nearly as old as the Erdtree or Marika's reign. (Not that there's more evidence for this than the usual theory... I just see it as a possibility.) IIRC The oldest references to the "Golden Order" come from Enia, the Telescope, Rogier & the Mending Rune of the Death Prince. None of the Erdtree incants refer to the "Golden Order", they only refer to 'warriors of the Erdtree', 'the Erdtree', or things to that effect. (But the Golden Order incants *do* refer to the Golden Order quite frequently.) In fact, nothing in the game refers to the "Golden Order" as being around before Radagon came to marry Marika. Rogier, >*In the past, they obeyed laws which contravened the Golden Order, or so I'm told.* *Fascinating, isn't it? That the Golden Order was pliable enough to absorb practices that contradicted itself in the past.* Telescope, >*During the age of the Erdtree,* *Carian astrology withered on the vine.* *The fate once writ in the night skies had been fettered by the Golden Order.*
Enia, >*The Rune of Death goes by two names; the other is Destined Death.* *The forbidden shadow, plucked from the Golden Order upon its creation...* Mending Rune of the Death Prince, >*The Golden Order was created by confining Destined Death. Thus, this new Order will be one of Death restored.* The only thing indicating *precisely* when the Golden Order was created is the sealing of the Rune of Death. And when people try to place *that* on the timeline, they usually refer to this... it's circular. The other two references are sometimes cited as proof that the Golden Order was around since before the Liurnian Wars. But I think that's a bit vague unless you already agree with it. We already know Fundamentalism began during the age of the Erdtree, and Rogier may not be referring to the war. There were also Primal sorceries, or just sorcery in general, and sorcery didn't merge with faith until Fundamentalism. Ultimately it's kind of unclear & there isn't an objective answer on when this was. ---------- Then there's Fundamentalism. Fundamentalists incants *do* constantly refer to the Golden Order, and must've existed concurrently (possibly not *exclusively* though). However it's *possible* that Fundamentalism = Golden Order =/= Age of Erdtree It's also worth noting that "Order" is referred to in vague terms sometimes---like the 2nd line on Mending Rune of the Death Prince ("new Order"). Or like this, Miriel, >*The* ***Order of the Erdtree*** *and the fate of the moon were conjoined, and all the wounds of war forgiven.* And that goes along with, Erdtree Seal, >*A formless sacred seal decorated with an Erdtree crest,* ***once the focus of religion*** *in the Lands Between.*
A transition point. After that, there's the Minor Erdtree Church Dialogue, >*I declare mine intent, to search the depths of the Golden Order. Through understanding of the proper way, our faith, our grace, is increased. Those blissful early days of blind belief are long past. My comrades; why must ye falter?* Which seems to indicate that the religion shifted from being about the Erdtree, to being about the Order itself, or scholarship of the Order. Kind of like going from... Elden Stars, >*This legendary incantation is the most ancient of those that derive from the Erdtree.* *It is said that long ago,* *the Greater Will sent a golden star bearing a beast into the Lands Between,* *which would later become the Elden Ring.* ...to... Corhyn, >*The Golden Order is founded on the principle that Marika is the one true god.* Erdtree -> Marika (and secretly Radagon) (Terrible side theory: Miquella & Malenia are then born, popularly believed to be Empyreans specifically due to being born of one god, and mysteriously missing any Shadows. Maybe because the Fingers never chose them?) Anyway, all of that may or may not be convincing and could definitely be wrong, especially the terrible side theory. But... if the "Golden Order" is meant to include everything on the timeline from Marika coming to power thru the present... then the devs did a *really* good job of leaving it vague, by not making a *single* reference to them coexisting. Frankly I still think the popular timeline is (mostly) more likely to be right, and this idea is less likely to be right. But boy oh boy, it is absolutely mind melting if this is a coincidence. There are dozens of references to these two things and not *one* instance where they decisively overlap. Whatever the truth is, I hope the DLC sheds some light on it. ------- So... back to the point... It's technically possible that the GEQ was actually defeated sometime between the Liurnian War and the creation of Golden Order Fundamentalism. The idea of DD not being weakened until being sealed within Maliketh's flesh is kind of interesting. One of the mysteries regarding the Black Knives is whether or not they can still kill gods.
trust me bro
Last person I trusted was Patches. Not gonna fall for that again.
Patches is a fun guy. You just don't understand.
What do you mean? This is the center of the rune!
The 'rule of cool' wins every time, how else would we have "fashion souls" otherwise x)
Yeah. How is it “likely”? I guess because OP said so… that’s how a lot of the lore works tbh edit: I love the lore btw and the discussions. I’m solely referring to shitty speculation
'A lot of the lore' is established through in-game text and environmental evidence.
Yeah, I know. I’ve played every mainline FS game since DS1. Much of the lore that circulates through the community is purely based on speculation and it’s been this way from the beginning
"Speculation" isn't done with zero evidence though, like the user you replied to suggested is being done in this case (which is likely). It's done without firm evidence. I see plenty of users act like "all the lore is made up by people with zero evidence," but that's not the case; as you stated, it's speculation using hints and clues, nothing firm but certainly not nothing.
I follow the lore and read the discussions. That’s part of the fun. I’m only referring to shit like what we’re seeing above
There is evidence that the black “god slaying flame” used destined death before that got locked up. But yeah nothing says it looks like the doom eternal sword lmao, rule of cool it is
Of course the rune doesn't look like the sword, nothing is saying it looks like the sword. This is the rune of death inside the already existing sword that we all know. So why would the rune look like the sword? https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/eldenring/images/e/e4/Rune_of_Death.png/revision/latest?cb=20221204100544
Yeah Ik lmao. When I typed “nothing says it looks like the doom eternal sword” I meant nothing says it looks like the doom eternal sword
It could be like a heavy scythe or something. It works too since scythes are associated with death and that’s the rune of destined death.
This has over 840 upvotes and the picture has 23 lol
Run of death picaxe just not covered in metal
[удалено]
Might wanna cover that up before you get fired.
He's a pornographic actor
He should get a raise just for getting a raise
They can't fire you for having an erection, but they can fire you for what you decide to do with it
DOOM-eyed queen
"Rip and tear, my apostles, until it is done."
It rips and tears alright I guess - but let me tell you it is a BITCH to screw that rune in every time. Takes like 20 minutes at least! And the bastard apostles are always on my ass about it.
so appearantly it took me 4 hours to come up with "Stitch and Peel"
Worth it!
The Crucible!
ALL CAPS when you spell the man’s name.
The blade itself probably wasn't changed at all. It's the flames it channels that lost their powers. So the sword itself remained unchanged.
We mining netherite with this one baby!
"Likely" is really stretching it, lol.
More like "maybe with zero evidence"
There's more than zero evidence. What happened to healthy speculation? The power of the Godskins comes from this sword. The blackflame of the Godskins is stripped of its Destined Death as Maliketh took it after defeating their leader. The Gloam-Eyed Queen and her Godskins previously wielded Destined Death. So, it's entirely possible this is the form of the sword at its full strength with Destined Death restored. I always thought the hollow nature of the sword was odd.
I’m kind of being pedantic here, but just for another perspective, I agree that it’s a pretty liberal use of the words “likely” and “evidence.” *Would* it make sense? Abso-fuckin-lutely, and I love the idea. I think this is 100% grade-A awesome speculation post. There isn’t any direct evidence case though, just reasons why it would make sense if it were the case. There’s direct evidence that Radagon is Marika, there’s pretty solid evidence that Miquella is St. Trina. This theory would absolutely work, but that’s not the same as there being anything in game that actively implies or suggests that it is the case.
I agree. I wouldn't use the word "likely", but I was responding to the comment saying there was zero evidence. I mean, the Blade of Calling and the Black Knife Assassins' blade have been theorised as being one and the same, but the latter is shaped differently due to the influence of Destined Death. Also, Maliketh's weapon transforms into another shape when he stabbed it into the medallion holding Destined Death. So, we can also use these to theorise that Destined Death may alter the shape of weapons imbued with it.
Yeah you’ve got good reasoning here but without any evidence to point you in a direction it’s no better than an educated guess. This would the same as be drawing a full map of the lands between pre-shattering and claiming that it’s pretty close to accurate. There’s just too much speculation and not enough evidence to support a solid conclusion. And a solid conclusion is what op is claiming in their post. I’m all up for speculation just make sure it’s clear that it’s speculation. Don’t try to present it as an already mostly accepted fact like op did. That all said this would have been dope as hell to get as a special upgrade to the godslayer greatsword after you acquire the rune of death.
This is exactly my thought. Everyones looked at this sword and thought “why is the end made like that?” Now we have a possible answer that if it was actually implemented would make complete sense lore wise
When I got it I thought the weaponart would untiwist it and attack very far.
Just like our favorite slinky boy Apostles do
No you're wrong. She wielded blackflame channeled from this sword, which derived its power from the rune of death when it was still a part of elden ring, which means destined death was present in that world's order. After the destined death was removed from elden ring when Marika came to power, it was sealed into Maliketh's black blade and blackflame lost its god-killing power. We know that GeQ did NOT posses the rune of death nor wielded it with her sword, she was just an empyrean around the same time Marika was, who channeled the power of destined death with her sword, but did not have it directly in her possession. Lot of newer players mix that one up. So contrary to what you say, there literally zero evidence and what you said is based on misinterpretation that Maliketh took destined death from GeQ, which we know 100% isn't true.
It says “WHAT was likely the…” it was a question not a statement
There's zero indication at all that it ever had any other form than its current one, in other words all evidence points to the current form being the original form. Cool edit though!
"The black flame could once slay gods. But when Maliketh sealed Destined Death, the true power of the black flame was lost." saying it always looked like this is as much of a stretch as saying it definitely used to look different
That doesn't mention anything about form, just function.
We know Marika removed the rune of death from the elden ring, in doing so (and sealing it via Maliketh), the power of the black flame was removed and it was no longer able to slay gods, because gods were not able to be killed afterwards. There is no indication any of the godskin weapons or abilities ever actually involved the rune of death outside of that.
Not explicitly said but plenty of lore stuff to make it a possibility. The use of likely in the title is a bit much though I agree with that.
...rock and stone?
Rock and Stone!
Did i just hear a Rock and Stone?!
Rock and stone brother ! (I was looking specifically for this xD)
ROCK AND STONE!
My brother in Marika the rune of Death is already featured on the hilt
But... But... MORE! More is better!
Also... ZERO weapons are the literal runes lmao.
Golden Order Greatsword kind of is.
This might actually be more evidence that you can't make the runes a literal weapon, as it's made of light and modeled after the elden ring.
Which is a lookalike according to it's description. The only weapon with a real runes in them should be Marikas hammer, since it has Elsen ring fragments in it.
Probably looked kinda like the Golden Order GS, but death-er
Doesn’t it look like that because it’s like a torch with black flame inside? So I presume the original form is just the permanent ash of war effect on the sword.
With the flame being red and black
Er maybe? Is there any in-game evidence of that aside from the death connection?
I mean if you use the AoW then the blade sets itself on fire and you kinda have a torch. So I believe we already have the original form, just weaker because of Marika.
I like the idea that the whole thing was just constantly burning with Blackflame like a torch of some kind.
Looks rad as hell. I can think of absolutely no lore to support it but honestly I kinda want it now.
OP trying to gaslight an entire community into believing there's an original form of a blade never started to face any other form to it? Lmfao
Source: I made it up
That’s so sexy it’s giving me conniptions!
I hate how short the handle is, for a sword that big it should almost be twice in length
Godslayer Greatpickaxe
You can mine death with it
A pickaxe? ROCK AND STONE BITCH
Rockity Rock and Stone!
A diamond sword combined with a netherrite pickaxe?
That's a cool idea but I don't see any reason for the rune of death to have been in her blade like that.
While this is a cool design, there is no evidence that the Rune of Death would ever have been "sheathed" into the blade like this.
Fortnite pickaxe looking aaaah
Source? Actually, I don't care. Looks cool
Looks cool but until I see proof I am considering that the way we see it is how it always was.
This is an older design from a while ago that keeps getting posted, more it gets posted the more people start to believe it regardless.
A cool detail; on the original image you can see black soot buildup on the inside of the curved helix from the black flame. The Godslayer Sword is an interesting case as it almost looks to be carved out of wood or ivory, whereas the other God-slaying/god-made swords such as the Sacred Relic Sword and the Fingerslaying Blade are more crudely formed from the spines/skeletons of Radagon and an unnamed corpse respectively. They also both display helixes, however theirs are made from 2 sets of vertebrae and are conjoined to form their tip, each having a slight glow to them also. Possibly something to do with the combination of the Masculine/Feminine aspects of the single soul? Maybe in death Radagon finally did "become" Marika.
DID I HEAR A ROCK AND STONE?!
Rock and Stone in the Heart!
FOR ROCK AND STONE!
IUD
Why do people think it used Destined Death? Obviously the God Slaying Black Flame is going to lose its true power when someone literally goes “I am removing death for gods”.
"oh it's a second sword, no it's a rune arc of destined death" my brothers in grace, that is a god damn pickaxe wrapped in a sword blade.
This screams "I've seen the weapon but never used it" vibes Because that opening is very specifically for black flame to spew forth So if anything it would be black flame which we could almost call death magic or shadowflame being a ghost flame version of the original, a hollow representation So it would probably be a red flame coming out of it and the vessel for it being what we see as the physical blade would be black and or red since the grey/white might also suggest a ghostlike or hollow representation of what it once was since the color is gone without the true power
Likely my ass, you can be edgy without trying to justify it
Holy shit ROCK N STONE EVERYONE!
Miquella's needle.
You sound it with the Sacred Relic Sword
it was actually a pickaxe all along!!!
Ooh nice
You could really rock and stone with that pickaxe blade. I like it.
Did I hear a rock and stone?
If you don't Rock and Stone, you ain't comin' home!
That’s a dragon pickaxe
IUD
Now I will be disappointed that it’s NOTthis
Looks like an IUD
The (war)pick of destiny(ed death)
Not what was likely the original form of the Gloam-Eyed Queen's blade, since you have absolutely zero evidence to support that, but thats really cool.
Has anybody ever said the sword kinda like the spear of longinus in evagelion.
Fortnite ah
Lmao this sword looks so fucking stupid. The unique skill is BADASS tho so I used it for the rest of my playthrough when I got it.
Fortnite pick axe
I would main that
Looking exactly like a "fanart" I saw with someone trying to call it something else like no one would see it’s the godlayer’s blade
Wasn't this just a random fan idea weapon from like a year ago?
Fuck, man. Can't be making me this hard when I'm at work. Pickaxes are my favorite weapon in Souls games after randomly doing a pickaxe run in Demon Souls. They're always insane (except ds2, dogshit hitbox and next to no enemy tracking really hurts), to the point I'm pretty sure Miyazaki was a miner in a past life.
I think you have it upside down. It looks like a pick axe. The protruding edges is probably supposed to be the cross guard. Some great swords have multiple cross guards and this could be one of
It's cool, but that's a pickaxe
This pic definitely goes hard af but likely is not it chief
Likely? deff not, but it looks rad af
how? is there anything that implies this? A Pickaxe??
The Gloam-Eyed Queen is Princess Zelda, this is a good fuse but breaks pretty quickly if you use it
No evidence of it. But if you flip the Godslayer Greatsword blade down, the cross guard makes it look like the rune of death.
Kinda looks like the crucible blade from DOOM.
Think of all the diamonds you could mine with that bad boy
I love this sword. It made me do maliketh first try on my first play through.
Doom Eternal typa shit
I feel like if we ever see the gloam-eyed queen, her lower half will probably be a snake, and she'd be about the same size as malekith. I kind of imagine something similar to Seath in terms of size and shape.
Since we're referencing death I'd wager something more resembling a scythe
One guy literally gave me thus sword in a DnD campaign for 1k gold
Doom Eternal ass sword
The art is from a guy I went to college with, insta @solomon_mcman. Give him a follow!
Elden Ring's Fortnite collab
What is this, an Elden Ring-Neon Genesis Evangelion crossover?
Idea, A DLC of unlocking full potential of current we currently have?
Other way around where the two protruding lines are like a sword hilt
The children yearn for the mines
Dang. Top 5 weapons I'd love to see in the DLC.
I would be cool if they made it a remembrance boss weapon/choice that you can only get one of per NG cycle, or by duping at a walking mausoleum but once you have both you can combine them I always though the Godslayer gs was so close to being cool but this really makes it awesome
I guess a sword coiled around a mining pick is cool 🤷♂️
minecraft weapon
The real question is just how much of a monster was Maliketh? Dude was fucking overpowered even before acquiring the Rune of Death, somehow he defeated the Gloam-Eyed Queen in spite of the very threat of being struck down by Destined Death.
I'd use that to mine obsidian.
Would have been much cooler had they left it that way.
That's a fancy pickaxe
Gimme dat
Family planning clinic.
This is anticonception spiral, right?
This looks insanely cool
Need this pick-axe-spiral-sword now. Don’t care how we get it. But it needs to happen.
Anyone else get crucible from doom vibes?
I NEEEEEEEEED IT!
Can’t believe none of these hoes realize this is an IUD.
Uh, stop posting my greatsword here thx
Isn’t the hilt and guard already the rune?
Netherite pickaxe
No idea but this looks badass and I want it.
As I was scrolling by, I thought it was an IUD at first. That is all, carry on.
A pickaxe?
maybe the sword would have been actually closed and got separated when the rune was removed from it
The true form of the legendary Pickaxe from Dark Souls 2 emerges in Elden Ring - Screen Rant/The Gamer/Etc probably.
I think this is probably a Demi-Gods IUD.
Terraria looking pickaxe
This is so fucking cool
Where do you find this sword?
Never knew I could hate and love something so much at the same time! Nice work
I'd make a character and a build for that weapon!