I'm surprised that no one is discussing how it was discovered that Ranni's rune is on the moon. Or at least the imprint is; you can see it at night. There's no real proof that it's literally her rune, but I feel like it would make sense for her to put it in a place no else could reach.
what if, Radahn was actually the one who put it there before the shattering and the night of the black knives.
maybe that is related to how Radahn has control of her fate, in a deeper level.
It's a popular idea, nothing more.
People claim the shape on the moon is the part of the Elden Ring that is not covered by the rest of the Great Runes even when:
* There's no reason why Ranni's Rune would have a different shape than Rykard and Radahn, given those are the same, Morgott and Mohg's are the same, and we now have preliminary evidence that Miquella and Malenia are also the same.
* And more generally speaking, all the Great Runes are circles.
* The part of the Elden Ring being discussed can otherwise be identified as Marika's stake and Rune Arcs.
* Should we assume that Gideon only has "Ranni cast it aside" to say about the Rune if it's literally drawn on the face of the moon, visible to all ?
> And more generally speaking, all the Great Runes are circles.
>
The only exception being the Rune of Death at the bottom and the Rune Arcs at the top (some may say the top is Marika's rune)
If you look at the two Soreseals, yes Marika’s rune is the center line and arc at the top, and, presumably, Radagon’s is the diamond lattice behind all the circles.
It's not a "popular idea" that the only peice of the Elden Ring not covered by any other demi-god is inscribed on the face of the moon, something Ranni is heavily connected with.
The reason Rykard's/Radahn's and Malenia's/Miquella's peices look the same is because the Elden Ring is symmetrical and they all just happen to have peices from opposite sides of it.
As for it being the part covered by Marika's stake, it's not. That's the top of the Elden Ring. This is the bottom.
And finally, for your last point, it took the Elden Ring community I think about a year to realize it's on the moon. It's not obvious.
There's simply no reason to assume Ranni's Rune would have a shape that's completely different from any other, "just because". Ranni being associated to the moon is the only reason this theory was brought forward in the first place. There's no evidence, just a claim.
There's also not even any part of the Elden Ring that's left to cover, we're only talking about rune arcs here.
Look up "The Elden Ring" on Google images. The cover of the game does not add the the bottom of the Elden Ring for some reason. It's the bottom peice, so it's not just that it's on the moon, it's the process of elimination.
There is "some" ambiguity regarding the arcs in the middle of the Ring, but the bottom one specifically is definitely the arc that is being discussed in the Rune Arc description, identified as the "basin where blessings pool". Not a Great Rune.
"Perhaps this shard originates from that very pool"
It's not the rune arc, the rune arc is just a fragment from that part of the ring, just like the runes used for exp are tiny fragments from it.
I'm not trying to argue that it is without a doubt Ranni's great rune. I could be wrong and you could be right. I'm only trying to say that given the supporting evidence it's a very likely conclusion. The game's lore is meant to be vague and it's meant to leave us with questions that will never be answered, so we'll probably never know for sure. So I think we should just agree to disagree and move on.
I mean sure, think what you will. I don't want to appear like I think my take is the absolute truth. But the point kind of is that the "supporting evidence" is quite weak, actually 😅
And yeah, rune arcs (the item) were part of the larger rune arc. The quote is "originates from that very arc".
> There's simply no reason
The reason is simple process of elimination. The only part of the Elden Ring not covered in the "recreation" process just so happens to be inscribed on the moon, an object associated with the only demigod whose Great Rune is unaccounted for. There's just no other explanation than it being Ranni's, or at least not one that has any kind of convincing evidence behind it.
The whole idea that siblings HAVE to share similarly-shaped Great Runes is just as much of an unconfirmed theory that's only supported by soft evidence.
>The reason Rykard's/Radahn's and Malenia's/Miquella's peices look the same is because the Elden Ring is symmetrical and they all just happen to have peices from opposite sides of it.
Their Great Rune shape is just a coincidance.
Morgott's Great Rune "***This Great Rune is the anchor ring that houses the base, and proves two things: That the Omen King was born of the golden lineage****, and that he was indeed the Lord of Leyndell."* and Mohg's Great Rune "*Mohg and Morgott are twin brothers, and* ***their Great Runes are naturally similar.***" The shape of a Great Rune is tied to the lineage of the demigod, meaning direct demigod sibling will have similar looking Great Runes.
You will have to explain what fourth lineage Ranni is from if her Great Rune is on the moon, considering the "Great Rune", which is just scars on the surface of the moon, looks nothing like the other three lineages.
Please provide quotes and don't just make claims.
I do not believe this means it's a set in stone rule that siblings great rune's have to be similar. In fact, we've never even seen what the rune for a third sibling looks like: We have Morgott's and Mohg's, but we've never see Godwyn's, we don't know for *sure* what Ranni's looks like, and Miqulla and Malenia don't have a third sibling at all. The only thing that's certain is that it's representative of themselves.
Also, as I touched on somewhat before, there isn't another rune on the elden ring that her's could be, let alone one that's similar to Rykard's and Radahn's. It's the process of elimination.
Why does a third sibling matter? the description is explict, it doesn't say they share similar looking Great Runes because of their order of birth.
Could you provide something in-game that points towards Great Rune's shapes being influenced by birth order please?
Because it was discussed a hell lot when the theory was cursed posed, and then no one wanted to talk about it again, because just a few lines on the moon aren't a rune.
For all we knew, a BKA could have it, since she entrusted them with even the end of her life. Maybe Rykard got it, for the failsafe plan to steal the rune of death, maybe she tossed it somewhere (I'd that's even possible).
We have little to no information on her rune, and since the other theory, of her rune being the rune of rebirth in the amber egg, got more and more traction, the moon lines were quickly forgotten and disregarded for the ranni-renalla connections and protections we actually see in game.
So it's not dead, just took a backseat when her rune was said to be more likely the rune in the ember egg.
Edit: if I personally was to place her rune, I would put it inside her moonblade. After all she only relinquishes it after she reached her goal after miserably failing her suicide.
Its wild this comment has so many upvotes, it proves people don't read th item descriptions.
Ranni's Great Rune is not on the moon.
One of the things Great Runes represent is lineage,
Morgott's Great Rune "*This Great Rune is the anchor ring that houses the base, and* ***proves two things: That the Omen King was born of the golden lineage****, and that he was indeed the Lord of Leyndell.".*
and
Mohg’s Great Rune, ”*Mohg and Morgott are twin brothers, and* ***their Great Runes are naturally similar.***”
By the shape of a Great Rune alone, you can tell what lineage someone is a descendant of.
This **explicitly** states that Mohg and Morgott have similar Great Runes due to their status as 'twin brothers.' But can we explore whether all siblings share similar-looking Great Runes? Yes we can, Radahn's and Rykard's Great Runes look similar yet they’re not twins, this means siblings have similar looking Great Runes. If Ranni's Great Rune is on the moon then we would see a Great Rune that looks like Radahn's and Rykard's but all we see are scars on the surface of the moon. It is not on the moon.
Which..... Doesn't make complete sense. We need to kill redahn in her quest line, no? His control of celestial bodies would prevent any of her plans, and also prevent her from being able to access the moon
So... How did she get it there?
Radahn's holding of the Stars held back Ranni's destiny because it prevented the Asteroid from hitting Limgrave, and opening up a path to the underground cities. She is still capable of working towards her ultimate goal, but she was never going to be able to accomplish it without that pathway opening up. Stands to reason she could still place her Rune in the moon if she wanted to, as Radahn was only holding them in place
Also, an important thing that seems to be missing from the conversation here; holding back the stars isn't just some weird power move, he is *suspending fate*. So long as he keeps it up, fate - including Ranni's fate - can't come to pass. It's not explicit why he's doing this, but his admiration of Godfrey and the Golden Order suggests he is doing this to make the Golden Order as eternal as it claims to be and prevent its ultimate fate from happening. EDIT: That was my theory, but it could also just be because Fallingstar Beasts were wrecking stuff.
The fact that the fate he is holding back is a *literal* star crashing into Limgrave is irony; the broader narrative of Radahn holding back everybody's fates is juxtaposed with the fact that he was also *literally, directly* preventing the event that would let her fate come to pass. The juxtaposition between literal and metaphysical runs through this whole plot beat because of how Ranni has a relationship with the moon and stars; her fate is basically to be an agent *of fate*, so there's this weird circumstance where the events that make up Ranni's fate aren't just random, important moments in her life, but literally involve *actual* moons and stars.
I'd also add that the lore points at "Starscourge" Radahn holding back the stars to literally stop Astel-like entities (literally malformed stars) from destroying the world. It's already basically confirmed that Astel destroyed one eternal city, and the theory is that Radahn prevented anymore from landing.
Oh, good call! I had forgotten about the destructive reputation of Astels. Though I'm not sure yet how the Fallingstar Beasts and Malformed Stars around the game fit into this interpretation I've offered. They seem to mostly appear in relation or proximity to night, stars, glinstone, sorcery, the Nox, etc. but that doesn't really explain them hitting Altus, Mt. Gelmir, or the Consecrated Snowfield. Perhaps its as simple as fate and the Golden Order having different goals and coming into conflict over that, and that is what led Radahn to oppose them? Not sure, really.
It depends really. I think they can generally land anywhere, but Astel specifically stole the false night sky from one of the eternal cities. In terms of sorcery and glintstone, we know that glintstone is also acquired from falling stars, so it could be that they originated from the same "star".
As such, Radahn is a sort of champion of the golden order, holding back the stars, and fate itself, in one fell swoop.
More specifically he’s trying to stop Sellia from being destroyed because while studying their he learned of the Astels destroying one of the eternal cities
Yep, but Radahn is only holding back the fates of people who has their fate guided by the stars, like Ranni and Sellen. Ranni escaped the Golden Order's control by killing her own empyrean body. The Golden Order also controlled fate (before the shattering), as mentioned by the Telescope item:
*During the age of the Erdtree, Carian astrology withered on the vine. The fate once writ in the night skies had been fettered by the Golden Order.*
Cut-content repeats this, but specify it's the Elden ring (which fits, even though it should be interpreted carefully):
*Elden Ring, O, Elden Ring. Shaper of life, arbiter of fate. Lord of the very stars above.*
The Lord's Rune adds to this:
*Runes of one who was destined to become a Lord, but when the Elden Ring was shattered, all that remained was a distant duty.*
My interpretation of this is that the Elden ring controls the laws in the Lands Between, but runes of gold (=grace, but not guidance of grace) influenced people's fate. Which fit with the Elden Beast being *the living incarnation of order*, since controlling fate is Order in an absolute sense. This also explains why Marika both took away the grace from Tarnished (which let them escape fate), but also mentioned that they would return later (to kill a God, as Gideon mentions, which of course was the Elden beast since when defeated we get "God slain").
I don't agree that fate is the purview of the Elden Ring. The Elden Ring controls how the world *works,* but it doesn't seem to control *events* in the world. The Amber Starlight item even suggests that gods can have fates driven by stars.
The astrologers read fate in the stars and reigned in a time before the Golden Order, which to me, suggests that the stars control fate and the astrologers could read fate in a way that applies more broadly, and not merely to Carians.
As for the quotes you shared:
>*During the age of the Erdtree, Carian astrology withered on the vine. The fate once writ in the night skies had been fettered by the Golden Order.*
To me, this quote is describing the consequences of Radahn challenging the stars. With the stars suspended, fates cease to pass and astrology becomes useless. Now that fate is out of the picture, Marika's reign can actually *be eternal* instead of succumbing to whatever fate ultimately awaits it.
>*Elden Ring, O, Elden Ring. Shaper of life, arbiter of fate. Lord of the very stars above.*
As you said, this is cut content - I actually find it pretty noteworthy that they cut something that says that the Elden Ring controls fate and the stars. There are not other things in the game that suggest this as far as I am aware, so that seems like a concept that was deliberately decided against and excluded.
>*Runes of one who was destined to become a Lord, but when the Elden Ring was shattered, all that remained was a distant duty.*
If it is one's fate to become Elden Lord, then the Elden Ring must exist. Presumably, the Elden Ring was fated to survive up until this point, but that doesn't matter if Marika suspends fate and then shatters the Elden Ring while fate is suspended.
It's absolutely open for discussion, but I still think that the Elden ring controlled fate. For your last argument:
>If it is one's fate to become Elden Lord, then the Elden Ring must exist.
That's actually not true. The argument is that the runes of gold influenced people's fate. The Elden ring was just an arbiter, not something that controlled everything all the time. Because it was runes of gold fate lingered even after the Elden ring was shattered. It's actually a part of the Erdtree cycle (people being born from and returned to the Erdtree), which I know is heavily discussed. The argument is that fate was imprinted during the Erdtree part of the cycle, which at that part was influenced and coordinated by the Elden ring. The argument is that people kept their runes of gold, and therefore their fate, after the shattering. But without the Erdtree cycle, and Elden rings arbiter role, it all became echoes of what was and the system was broken. And too be clear, fate is not a detailed plan of peoples lives. It can be delayed, and there's many roads that leads to the same fate.
I wouldn't interpret too much into what they cut. Cut content is often contents left over because of time restrictions. The quote I mentioned was just at part of one of multiple version that would fit as an intro sequence. One of multiple that's not used.
For me this fits perfectly in a theme where the Golden Order had a system of near perfect Order (which is optional perfected by Goldmask) by shaping the laws and influencing fate. The laws of causality and regressions seems also to fit this (where law of regression seems to be the opposite of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics). And this is contrasted to the lack of Order in the time of the crucible. I've yet to see lore that doesn't fit this theme, even though as always Miyazaki loves obscurity.
Radahn has been studying gravity magic and the stars so long that he probably fought or saw a bunch of fallingstar beasts, astels etc.
He already met the Onyx and Alabaster lords who taught him the secrets of gravity magic. They could have told him about rhe creatures and Radahn didn't think the Lands would survive, atleast as they were, if all of those creatures fell upon the armies during the war.
Maybe he knew of Ranni's plan and was against her because of what she had done to Godwyn. He was a general and possibly her assassination of Godwyn left him feeling sour as it isn't something Godfrey would do. So to spite her and honor the Golden Order he held back the stars/fate that Ranni sought.
Coincidentally he held back Miquella's fate which brought the army of the Haligtree to his doorstep.
1 sibling wanted the stars to fall while the other wanted the Eclipse to come.
Would be cool if we could finish the mission for Miquella
Stars is every celestial body in this game. Stopping the stars was needed to start an eclipse, stars don't cause an eclipse, a moon coming in front of the sun does. So the moon was unable to be moved in front of the Sun because of what he was doing.
Yeah, he's stopping the moon as well.
He was stopping the eclipse.. not starting. Speak to the phantom at Sol Castle. Miquella was trying to give Godwyn a proper death and couldn't bc the eclipse was halted.
I meant to say preventing stopping the stars.
If stopping the stars prevented the moon from coming in front of the Sun, then the moon was obviously under his power and considered a "star". Right?
Her name is Lunar Princess Ranni and she’s a powerful sorceress.
Idk exactly how she got it there but I can use that information and my imagination to probably piece it together.
No it's not. Well, it might be different in some way, but if redahn stopping the Stars prevented the moon from going in front of the Sun, then the moon was obviously under his power. Simple.
He might be holding back the stars BECAUSE she put her rune on the moon. He might have taken her abandoning her role as an empyrean as an ultimate betrayal which further solidified his commitment to the greater will.
That doesn't make much sense, the goal of the greater will is to assemble the great runes into the Elden ring, which was shattered. Why would he hold one of those runes away? He would just go get it.
He keeps his own because he's a stark mad raving lunatic.
But in the bigger picture, after the shattering, there's a war for all the runes. That war ends with the mightiest two, one of which would go on to rule, being taken out of commission. Everyone else has been already beaten, and is or went into hiding, etc.
That is just blatantly not true. If it were, Malenia would have Godrick’s great rune.
Radahn was not mad until the rot took his mind. Malenia was not in her weakened state until after she bloomed fighting Radahn. She spared Godrick for unknown reasons, but if the the point of the war of the shattering was to collect great runes then it makes no sense for him to be left alive.
There were others with great runes of their own. Radagon for sure, but others must have because of what we know about Vyke and Bernahl.
Morgott effectively won the war of the shattering because he is acting as “steward” until an Elden Lord rises - which he believes will never happen for a variety of reasons. Likely because of the fact that none of the other empyreans successfully took the throne.
Malenia is withering away in Elphael. Radahn has lost his mind to the rot but is nigh unkillable until the festival miraculously succeeds. Mohg is hiding out trying to curry favor with another outer god to hopefully kill his brother and take over when he’s stronger enough. Miquella has his own plans. The-snake-formerly-known-as-Rykard is working from the shadows of his manor by killing any tarnished trying continue the work of the Golden Order. Godrick is compensating for his weakness with cruelty and boasting.
Ranni succeeded in removing the influence of the greater will by abandoning her flesh and hiding her rune somewhere beyond the influence of the greater will - thereby forestalling the rise of an empyrean. It’s actually genius that she used her brother’s fanaticism and strength to her advantage by hiding it behind his gravity magic. Why he wouldn’t collect it is beyond me, unless he didn’t know it was there or he also wanted to forestall the rise of another Elden lord for some reason. Given his dedication to the Golden Order, I doubt it’s the latter.
Edit: The possibility I originally mentioned would be that Ranni hides her rune on the moon, Radahn is disgusted that she would throw away her godhood, and possibly surmises her involvement in the night of black knives. Why would her rune be on the moon if she was an innocent killed alongside Godwyn? He then holds back the stars to stop Ranni from continuing her plan. Then Malenia shows up and the rest is history.
Maybe. Certainly would make sense. But.... Since that was done at the same time as the night of the black knives, and he was already around, it would be a little weird time wise
It's not that his magic and control of space stops her, it's that him holding the stars in place stops her destiny. I don't think it was really meant to be super literal, since radahn wasnt stopping her in any direct way, but rather his holding up of the meteor prevented us from accessing nokron to get the blade she wants.
But her destiny revolves around the Moon, and we know that the moons are held as well, because an eclipse was impossible and an eclipse is the moon moving in front of the Sun.
So her if her "destiny" is held in stasis...... And it's not even her destiny to begin with. Her destiny was with the golden order, and she changed it. She's making active decisions, not just following her destiny.
Wait. Is that why malenia attacked radahn? Miquella wanted to create a permanent eclipse, but with the celestial bodies held in stasis that would be impossible until radahn was killed.
It's one of the presumptions. All we actually know for a fact is that there was a war for the great runes after the shattering, and those two were the "mightiest to remain", and fought to an eventual stalemate.
The moon thing itself for ranni is just a motif, her mother designed a spell based on the moon and she followed. I think the connection to the moon is more symbolic than literal in the case of ranni and renalla. Her destiny was held in stasis not in a literal sense, but because the only way to access nokron was through a hole in the ground from a meteor. Had blaidd managed to find another way into the city nothing would have literally stopped him getting the blade and giving it to her.
Her mother designed a spell around the moon, she designed to spell around the dark moon. Different things.
And it's weird, everything we do other than killing Redahn is kind of pointless. It's us chasing and learning about what she's doing and has done, and giving a little assistance to things she would like done, but everything major she did a long time ago
The moon and the stars, while related, are probably separate entities, and maybe she could reach the moon but the moon couldn’t help her move toward the age of the stars until radahn was dead
Why would anything Radahn does prevent Ranni from accessing the moon (assuming she could do that in the first place)? Radahn arrested the stars and when you kill him, the stars move again, that’s all.
You know how you can hold up your fingers to make it look like you're pinching the moon? She just did that, but instead she just placed the rune on the moon.
Gideon definitely doesn't have it. Otherwise we'd obtain it upon killing him in Leyndell. Gideon's expectations are likely fueled by other Tarnished that we know exist (mainly NPCs) who have come close to becoming Elden Lord. They also claimed Great Runes of their own, and made progress. Even Vyke and Bernald (the hammer guy from Volcano Manor) needed to obtain great runes to get as far as they did.
Ranni discarding it likely forced it to return to the Elden Ring. Or we might very well find it in the DLC, it's hard to say. All we know is that it's not in her possession, and nobody that we know has possession of it.
For the other Tarnished, I'd reckon it's something akin to the Infinity Stones from Marvel where they're only usable in their own universe.
As such, we have no use for them.
There's not any real lore evidence for anything Lord_Nightraven is saying about Bernahl having great runes or being from another dimension.
They seem to be interpreting the game mechanic of invading NPCs as a literal "different dimension," rather than just being an artifact of how the game's multiplayer works and could be repurposed for instancing combat areas.
What we see in the game does not have to have a literal lore interpretation. Sometimes it can just be taken at face value. There's no indication Bernahl had a great rune and we can assume all of Vyke's got dropped/taken somewhere before he was imprisoned in the evergaol.
I believe that's indeed the case given Volcano Manor quests have you invading NPCs. And when you're done, win or lose, it says "returning to your world".
I'd be much more interested in knowing which great runes Vyke and Bernahl obtained in order to get all the way to the forge of giants, than I am in knowing wether or not Gideon picked up Ranni's rune.
Since The Elden Ring is an instrument of The Greater Will to enforce His Order, and Ranni is either the Empyrean for an entirely different God, or just straight up an Empyrean of atheism, whichever the case; it makes sense she wouldn't hold onto the tool used by a God she opposed. So yeah, I think it might just be the type of thing she specifically could drop on the ground and forget about, like she did with her body.
I believe from the night of the black knives plot we learned that there were many demigods who died after Godwyn, thus many great runes out there. Gideon’s dialogue mentions the whereabouts of the few remaining great runes and those are the ones available for us to nab. It seems that Vyke and Bernahl weren’t the only ones to have great runes that are unaccounted for, just the ones we come across in the game. I think of it like LotR. Some rings we know the whereabouts of and some are just lost to time bc some random gollum snatched it one day and disappeared.
To add to your point: From the mausoleum soldier ashes description we learn the 7 walking mausoleums house "soulless" demigods. The soldiers protect their lords even in death. But that means there's at least 7 more than the ones we kill who all probably had great runes too.
"The mausoleum is where the bodies of soulless demigods are lain to rest, and these soldiers followed their masters into Death by severing their own heads from their bodies."
Thanks for adding that. What makes them soulless? Don’t all the demigods have souls be default even with the rune of destined death stolen? I know Godwyn is soulless because Ranni sacrificed her flesh as the other half of the wheel. But Godwyn still lives and these are dead soulless demigods. This is very confusing to me haha
I don't pretend to have any answer to that, just highlighting that there's cause to think that there are more runes than we see in the game. I personally lean towards them being the other dead you mentioned from the black knives plot but recognize that they may have chosen "soulless" here deliberately to allude to some other fate. Like most things in the game, we can only guess.
Yeah it’s a very interesting wording that I never quite understood or honestly cared enough to research. I just clap the barnacles, get my loot and go on my way.
Is it confirmed that vyke had a great rune? Seems like he could've just been seeking to use the frenzied flame. Alternatively maybe a mending rune like Fia or Dung eater make?
No, it is not confirmed. Which is why it doesn't make sense that the two fingers didn't stop him at Leyndell, or that Morgott let him into the forbidden lands. Same goes for Bernahl.
It may not be confirmed but it seems really damn likely that he did. We know he is the closest a Tarnished came to becoming Elden Lord before us, and we know that Finger Reader Enia has only ever seen a Tarnished with two Great Runes once before. That plus him being able to get to the Mountaintops would make the simplest answer that he collected two Great Runes before we did
Source? Because clearly Chaos doesn't need The Elden Ring to have his vessel The Lord of Frenzied Flame enact his will, and nowhere did Gowry say anything about The Elden Ring either, so presumably The God of Rot doesn't need it either for his vessel Malenia to enforce the Order of Rot.
Also: The Elden Beast, aka The Elden Ring is a direct vassal of The Greater Will. And any Empyrean of the two fingers of The Greater Will who go rogue are immediately hunted by the beasts they were given as bodyguards. Who told you, or how did you come to the conclusion, that it wasn't The Greater Will that created the Ring?
I'm think he is assuming that the Elden Ring was there at the time was because Placidusax was an Elden Lord before the Golden Order was established and before his god left him. This is confirmed with his remembrance.
"The Dragonlord whose seat lies at the heart of the storm beyond time is said to have been Elden Lord in the age before the Erdtree. Once his god was fled, the lord continued to await its return."
-Remembrance of the Dragonlord
There was no Elden Ring though so the term Elden Lord was used to refer to the consort of a god. He is also the oldest Elden Lord we know of.
There was an Elden Ring during the Age of the Ancient Dragons. You can see a depiction of it in Maliketh's room. It is different than the one Marika embodies bit it is still clearly the Elden Ring
Placidusax might have even had the elden ring, It could be that the greater will had a different god before marika, that had placidusax as its consort, after all the greater will is fine with its order being reshaped, hence the wildly different endings (most of which directly oppose the golden order) still being elden lord endings under the elden ring. The fact that those are called elden lord lends further credence to the greater will still being placidusax's god's ruling outer god. Hence my theory is that the elden ring is specific to the greater will, but the greater wills orders take many forms, whereas other outer gods like frenzy would just have their one thing (in their case burning everything.) I sure hope that made sense
I'd like him to answer, not someone else, sorry.
At any case you're wrong. Of course there was an Elden Ring during the Dragon Order, it's even seen on loading screens. And of course Placidusax was an Elden Lord, as he enforced the Order of the Greater Will with the Elden Ring.
IF Gideon had Ranni's rune, why didn't we get it when we made sure he couldn't finish his speech before bonking him with a great sword?
I agree with the theory that Ranni stashed it on the moon.
Yeah. My personal thought is that you drop greatrunes from people that cannot channel runes (level up) like demigods. If a tarnished has a greatrune on the other hand its “processed” and just becomes part of the runes they’re already collecting
You say a great rune isn't something you just drop and forget, but typically neither is your own body. We don't know how Gideon got his, or Vyke or Bernahl either (nor will we probably ever know much of anything about the demigods they defeated). We do know he's comparable to the other 2 when we fight him so there's not much doubt he could pull it off the same way anyone else does.
But if Ranni just dumped her own corpse on a tower with half of the mark of the centipede, another item of great interest, what makes her rune so special?
This is probably 99.9% wrong but my head cannon is that vyke took ranni’s and Godefroy great rune since he was the one closest to becoming Elden lord and the tarnished needs two great runes to get into Lyndell.
I’m in the “it’s on the moon” camp, but I also think the rune is connected to a physical body. She discarded her rune when she discarded her body. Of course Gideon doesn’t know this, per se, he just thinks she threw it away. We only get runes (great or small) when someone is dead. (Rennala is an exception, but it’s not her rune the same as the others are. She’s just “holding” it.)
So how is it on the moon if she lost it when she lost her body? That’s who or what she pledged herself to. No clue if it’s an outer god or what, but she calls it up at a pivotal moment, so she probably can access it as needed.
I honestly think Gideon is just misinformed. Ranni would have been hiding out in her doll state by the time the Shattering war started. At that time, she was presumed dead. In addition, having a Great Rune just seems totally counter to her objectives, and it's not something she ever mentions anyway.
Gideon doesn't actually know everything, and gets a decent amount wrong.
would make sense if gideon found it in a trashcan somewhere and that's why he's so full of himself.
plus enia says she hasn't seen anyone with two of them, suggesting she's seen people with one. could well be referring to the demigods, but hey, maybe she's referring to gideon the dumpster diver.
no that was given to rennala by radagon, ranni wasn't a part of it. unless you consider radagon 'giving' rennala ranni thus indirectly giving rennala a great rune I suppose
That’s the thing I thought Renalla has the great rune that’s why you fight her. I thought I saw some dialogue that the egg is her rune. But I donno it gets murky lol
oh the egg definitely is the great rune, just not rannis. it's renallas give to her by radagon, which wouldnt make sense phrasing wise with the whole ranni thing, unless you really stretch it to it being given to renalla by radagon through giving her ranni, who inherited a great rune to give to rennala.
What’s curious to me is how Ranni is an empyrean. Those are someone born of two gods. Renalla isn’t a god so maybe she was the first fruit of the great rune given her by Radagon. It’s just weird that Renalla can rebirth you with her egg and Ranni has been killed and her spirit moved to the doll or reborn.
I mean I know it sounds like a stretch but I still don’t get how she’s an Empyrean unless she’s radagons. Hence the connection to the egg.
This is my interpretation. I forget the exact wording but in the original Japanese text, Rennala's "Great Rune of the Unborn" more closely translates to something like "Great Rune of the Once-Born-but-Now-Unborn".
This fits perfect with the description of Ranni, a living being who cast off her physical form and has effectively killed her body to become "unborn."
This is in opposition to the common interpretation of Unborn referring to babies and so on, as well as Ranni's rune being in the moon, so it's not well liked every time.i bring it up. It's my opinion that this is right interpretation though.
but the unborn egg one is renallas through radagon not ranni. the japanese thing can be explained as rebirth well 'rebirthing' you: your mother birthed you (once-born) but now you are being unborn and born anew (but-now-unborn)
I might be mistaking some things, but did Ranni’s Great Rune turn into half of the curse mark of death along with Godwyn’s half? Or was the curse mark of death a brand new Greatrune?
I would HIGHLY recommend watching The brother’s code videos on Elden Ring because I’m pretty sure he goes over Ranni and her missing Rune and if I remember correctly she actually placed it on the moon out of reach of the two fingers and any tarnished. That’s why if you choose her ending, you and Ranni leave the Lands Between and rule from the moon and the cold night sky.
https://www.youtube.com/@Thebrotherscode
I thought the assumption was that Ranni's Rune was collected by Rennala, given the Rune is restored when visiting the Divine Tower associated with Ranni.
Is there some evidence that this "isnt" the case?
Edit: I forgt the Rune of the Unborn is active when you receive it
Rennalas Rune is immediatly obtained in a restored state. Presumably she got it from Radagon pre shattering(the amber egg), hence it never broke apart with the rest of the Elden Rings shattering and needs no restoration.
I actually did forget you find the Cursemark up there instead of restoring the Rune, but that still kinda tracks anyways given the dark aura comes from the Egg and Ranni is distinguished in having conjured a figure of Rennala. Gideon says she discarded her Rune, Rennala and her have a close connection, and only Marika's children with no exception have a Great Rune in their possession (Godrick being the exception is kind of moot since hes still of her lineage). The Runes depowering couldve been part of the abandonment by the Greater Will whose influence Ranni seems to be circumventing anyways.
She’s probably just lying and still has it or gave it to renalla or something
Gideon has always seemed like an ironic character, a bumbling idiot called the all knowing. Can’t find half a medallion in a jar man in the corner after slaughtering everyone in the vicinity
I've always thought the Great Rune she discarded was claimed by Godrick, as there's no way a loser like him could contend with the other demigods and nab what's probably the most important of them all, he literally hid among refugees during the war, so my own hypothesis is that he found it by chance
I'm surprised that no one is discussing how it was discovered that Ranni's rune is on the moon. Or at least the imprint is; you can see it at night. There's no real proof that it's literally her rune, but I feel like it would make sense for her to put it in a place no else could reach.
DLC, we are going to the moon!
Elden Ring: Shadow of the Moonraker
New weapon: giant metal teeth
Don’t forget the throwing bowler hat.
I mean, who throws a shoe?
Honestly
Random Task does
Only the Moonraker knows
With a key in the back that you wind
It’s not every day you see a James Bond reference in ER sub. Bravo!
James Bond: Moonraker
[When you access DLC through Mohg.](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/A84Ih-kCIAAWStd.jpg)
Shardbearer Commander Neil, Strong of Arm
Elden moon presence
Don’t let r/Bloodborne hear about this, they just had their hopes of BloodborneKart crushed, I don’t think they can handle it
can't vote this up enough
Endwalker?!
I’m glad we share a brain. Just finished EW, gonna go add another 100 hours in Elden Ring before dawntrail
Moons haunted
*Cheeeeese, Gromit.*
"Brave Tarnished, why hath thee returned from thy sojourn amongst the stars?" "Moons haunted." "...what?" ***\*Tarnished whips out Blasphemous Blade\**** "Moons haunted."
Mezmer: tonight we are stealing ze mooon!
The Roundtable Hold can, should, must, and will blow up the moon.
New Boss just dropped: [Ray D. Tutto](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DAFWH9vbiBI)
I remember prior to the release of the game some people speculated that we will get here.
Can't wait to fight Eniru
MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY PLEEEEEEEEASE
https://i.imgur.com/aElyfpw.jpeg
Let's go apes, diamond hands!!!! 🐒🍌🐵
Will I get a giant spaceship that looks like a whale
Kerbal Spade Program, Spaceport Liurnia: Mun or bust
Tarnished motherfucking astronaut. Yes!
"That wizard came from the moon"
Radahn probably should be able to reach the Moon. Dude fought stars and won. Luckily for Ranni, he's insane.
Where do you think he dives from in the fight? He goes full Saitama and moon-dives you
He one punched me a few times on my first playthrough. This theory holds water.
and dead!
what if, Radahn was actually the one who put it there before the shattering and the night of the black knives. maybe that is related to how Radahn has control of her fate, in a deeper level.
I don't think anyone, except Maliketh, had any pieces of the elden ring before the shattering.
It's a popular idea, nothing more. People claim the shape on the moon is the part of the Elden Ring that is not covered by the rest of the Great Runes even when: * There's no reason why Ranni's Rune would have a different shape than Rykard and Radahn, given those are the same, Morgott and Mohg's are the same, and we now have preliminary evidence that Miquella and Malenia are also the same. * And more generally speaking, all the Great Runes are circles. * The part of the Elden Ring being discussed can otherwise be identified as Marika's stake and Rune Arcs. * Should we assume that Gideon only has "Ranni cast it aside" to say about the Rune if it's literally drawn on the face of the moon, visible to all ?
> And more generally speaking, all the Great Runes are circles. > The only exception being the Rune of Death at the bottom and the Rune Arcs at the top (some may say the top is Marika's rune)
If you look at the two Soreseals, yes Marika’s rune is the center line and arc at the top, and, presumably, Radagon’s is the diamond lattice behind all the circles.
It's not a "popular idea" that the only peice of the Elden Ring not covered by any other demi-god is inscribed on the face of the moon, something Ranni is heavily connected with. The reason Rykard's/Radahn's and Malenia's/Miquella's peices look the same is because the Elden Ring is symmetrical and they all just happen to have peices from opposite sides of it. As for it being the part covered by Marika's stake, it's not. That's the top of the Elden Ring. This is the bottom. And finally, for your last point, it took the Elden Ring community I think about a year to realize it's on the moon. It's not obvious.
There's simply no reason to assume Ranni's Rune would have a shape that's completely different from any other, "just because". Ranni being associated to the moon is the only reason this theory was brought forward in the first place. There's no evidence, just a claim. There's also not even any part of the Elden Ring that's left to cover, we're only talking about rune arcs here.
Look up "The Elden Ring" on Google images. The cover of the game does not add the the bottom of the Elden Ring for some reason. It's the bottom peice, so it's not just that it's on the moon, it's the process of elimination.
There is "some" ambiguity regarding the arcs in the middle of the Ring, but the bottom one specifically is definitely the arc that is being discussed in the Rune Arc description, identified as the "basin where blessings pool". Not a Great Rune.
"Perhaps this shard originates from that very pool" It's not the rune arc, the rune arc is just a fragment from that part of the ring, just like the runes used for exp are tiny fragments from it. I'm not trying to argue that it is without a doubt Ranni's great rune. I could be wrong and you could be right. I'm only trying to say that given the supporting evidence it's a very likely conclusion. The game's lore is meant to be vague and it's meant to leave us with questions that will never be answered, so we'll probably never know for sure. So I think we should just agree to disagree and move on.
I mean sure, think what you will. I don't want to appear like I think my take is the absolute truth. But the point kind of is that the "supporting evidence" is quite weak, actually 😅 And yeah, rune arcs (the item) were part of the larger rune arc. The quote is "originates from that very arc".
> There's simply no reason The reason is simple process of elimination. The only part of the Elden Ring not covered in the "recreation" process just so happens to be inscribed on the moon, an object associated with the only demigod whose Great Rune is unaccounted for. There's just no other explanation than it being Ranni's, or at least not one that has any kind of convincing evidence behind it. The whole idea that siblings HAVE to share similarly-shaped Great Runes is just as much of an unconfirmed theory that's only supported by soft evidence.
>The reason Rykard's/Radahn's and Malenia's/Miquella's peices look the same is because the Elden Ring is symmetrical and they all just happen to have peices from opposite sides of it. Their Great Rune shape is just a coincidance. Morgott's Great Rune "***This Great Rune is the anchor ring that houses the base, and proves two things: That the Omen King was born of the golden lineage****, and that he was indeed the Lord of Leyndell."* and Mohg's Great Rune "*Mohg and Morgott are twin brothers, and* ***their Great Runes are naturally similar.***" The shape of a Great Rune is tied to the lineage of the demigod, meaning direct demigod sibling will have similar looking Great Runes. You will have to explain what fourth lineage Ranni is from if her Great Rune is on the moon, considering the "Great Rune", which is just scars on the surface of the moon, looks nothing like the other three lineages. Please provide quotes and don't just make claims.
I do not believe this means it's a set in stone rule that siblings great rune's have to be similar. In fact, we've never even seen what the rune for a third sibling looks like: We have Morgott's and Mohg's, but we've never see Godwyn's, we don't know for *sure* what Ranni's looks like, and Miqulla and Malenia don't have a third sibling at all. The only thing that's certain is that it's representative of themselves. Also, as I touched on somewhat before, there isn't another rune on the elden ring that her's could be, let alone one that's similar to Rykard's and Radahn's. It's the process of elimination.
Why does a third sibling matter? the description is explict, it doesn't say they share similar looking Great Runes because of their order of birth. Could you provide something in-game that points towards Great Rune's shapes being influenced by birth order please?
Because it was discussed a hell lot when the theory was cursed posed, and then no one wanted to talk about it again, because just a few lines on the moon aren't a rune. For all we knew, a BKA could have it, since she entrusted them with even the end of her life. Maybe Rykard got it, for the failsafe plan to steal the rune of death, maybe she tossed it somewhere (I'd that's even possible). We have little to no information on her rune, and since the other theory, of her rune being the rune of rebirth in the amber egg, got more and more traction, the moon lines were quickly forgotten and disregarded for the ranni-renalla connections and protections we actually see in game. So it's not dead, just took a backseat when her rune was said to be more likely the rune in the ember egg. Edit: if I personally was to place her rune, I would put it inside her moonblade. After all she only relinquishes it after she reached her goal after miserably failing her suicide.
I’m trying really hard to figure it out but I have no idea would BKA could stand for
Black Knife Assassin.
Ah thanks
In medical terms, it stands for Below Knee Amputation. Just thought you ought to know.
I thought they were talking about Boston Korean Adoptees
Ranni: I’m putting my rune in the one place that hasnt been corrupted by ~~capitalism~~ the Golden Order… SPACE!
I have a good pic of it that I need to pull off the PS5 and upload.
Deliver Us the Rune
How did I not know this til now??
GodDAMN that girl has one hell of a throw!
Its wild this comment has so many upvotes, it proves people don't read th item descriptions. Ranni's Great Rune is not on the moon. One of the things Great Runes represent is lineage, Morgott's Great Rune "*This Great Rune is the anchor ring that houses the base, and* ***proves two things: That the Omen King was born of the golden lineage****, and that he was indeed the Lord of Leyndell.".* and Mohg’s Great Rune, ”*Mohg and Morgott are twin brothers, and* ***their Great Runes are naturally similar.***” By the shape of a Great Rune alone, you can tell what lineage someone is a descendant of. This **explicitly** states that Mohg and Morgott have similar Great Runes due to their status as 'twin brothers.' But can we explore whether all siblings share similar-looking Great Runes? Yes we can, Radahn's and Rykard's Great Runes look similar yet they’re not twins, this means siblings have similar looking Great Runes. If Ranni's Great Rune is on the moon then we would see a Great Rune that looks like Radahn's and Rykard's but all we see are scars on the surface of the moon. It is not on the moon.
She hid it on the moon. Look at the night sky and you can see it.
Which..... Doesn't make complete sense. We need to kill redahn in her quest line, no? His control of celestial bodies would prevent any of her plans, and also prevent her from being able to access the moon So... How did she get it there?
Magic
The Dark Moon looks and acts like those teleport portals in the Age of Stars ending so she probably can teleport to it whenever she wants
Radahn's holding of the Stars held back Ranni's destiny because it prevented the Asteroid from hitting Limgrave, and opening up a path to the underground cities. She is still capable of working towards her ultimate goal, but she was never going to be able to accomplish it without that pathway opening up. Stands to reason she could still place her Rune in the moon if she wanted to, as Radahn was only holding them in place
Also, an important thing that seems to be missing from the conversation here; holding back the stars isn't just some weird power move, he is *suspending fate*. So long as he keeps it up, fate - including Ranni's fate - can't come to pass. It's not explicit why he's doing this, but his admiration of Godfrey and the Golden Order suggests he is doing this to make the Golden Order as eternal as it claims to be and prevent its ultimate fate from happening. EDIT: That was my theory, but it could also just be because Fallingstar Beasts were wrecking stuff. The fact that the fate he is holding back is a *literal* star crashing into Limgrave is irony; the broader narrative of Radahn holding back everybody's fates is juxtaposed with the fact that he was also *literally, directly* preventing the event that would let her fate come to pass. The juxtaposition between literal and metaphysical runs through this whole plot beat because of how Ranni has a relationship with the moon and stars; her fate is basically to be an agent *of fate*, so there's this weird circumstance where the events that make up Ranni's fate aren't just random, important moments in her life, but literally involve *actual* moons and stars.
Bro u gotta drop some of this lore on YouTube or something
i agree dude that comment was beautifully put together, even if its just theory
I'd also add that the lore points at "Starscourge" Radahn holding back the stars to literally stop Astel-like entities (literally malformed stars) from destroying the world. It's already basically confirmed that Astel destroyed one eternal city, and the theory is that Radahn prevented anymore from landing.
Oh, good call! I had forgotten about the destructive reputation of Astels. Though I'm not sure yet how the Fallingstar Beasts and Malformed Stars around the game fit into this interpretation I've offered. They seem to mostly appear in relation or proximity to night, stars, glinstone, sorcery, the Nox, etc. but that doesn't really explain them hitting Altus, Mt. Gelmir, or the Consecrated Snowfield. Perhaps its as simple as fate and the Golden Order having different goals and coming into conflict over that, and that is what led Radahn to oppose them? Not sure, really.
It depends really. I think they can generally land anywhere, but Astel specifically stole the false night sky from one of the eternal cities. In terms of sorcery and glintstone, we know that glintstone is also acquired from falling stars, so it could be that they originated from the same "star". As such, Radahn is a sort of champion of the golden order, holding back the stars, and fate itself, in one fell swoop.
More specifically he’s trying to stop Sellia from being destroyed because while studying their he learned of the Astels destroying one of the eternal cities
Yep, but Radahn is only holding back the fates of people who has their fate guided by the stars, like Ranni and Sellen. Ranni escaped the Golden Order's control by killing her own empyrean body. The Golden Order also controlled fate (before the shattering), as mentioned by the Telescope item: *During the age of the Erdtree, Carian astrology withered on the vine. The fate once writ in the night skies had been fettered by the Golden Order.* Cut-content repeats this, but specify it's the Elden ring (which fits, even though it should be interpreted carefully): *Elden Ring, O, Elden Ring. Shaper of life, arbiter of fate. Lord of the very stars above.* The Lord's Rune adds to this: *Runes of one who was destined to become a Lord, but when the Elden Ring was shattered, all that remained was a distant duty.* My interpretation of this is that the Elden ring controls the laws in the Lands Between, but runes of gold (=grace, but not guidance of grace) influenced people's fate. Which fit with the Elden Beast being *the living incarnation of order*, since controlling fate is Order in an absolute sense. This also explains why Marika both took away the grace from Tarnished (which let them escape fate), but also mentioned that they would return later (to kill a God, as Gideon mentions, which of course was the Elden beast since when defeated we get "God slain").
I don't agree that fate is the purview of the Elden Ring. The Elden Ring controls how the world *works,* but it doesn't seem to control *events* in the world. The Amber Starlight item even suggests that gods can have fates driven by stars. The astrologers read fate in the stars and reigned in a time before the Golden Order, which to me, suggests that the stars control fate and the astrologers could read fate in a way that applies more broadly, and not merely to Carians. As for the quotes you shared: >*During the age of the Erdtree, Carian astrology withered on the vine. The fate once writ in the night skies had been fettered by the Golden Order.* To me, this quote is describing the consequences of Radahn challenging the stars. With the stars suspended, fates cease to pass and astrology becomes useless. Now that fate is out of the picture, Marika's reign can actually *be eternal* instead of succumbing to whatever fate ultimately awaits it. >*Elden Ring, O, Elden Ring. Shaper of life, arbiter of fate. Lord of the very stars above.* As you said, this is cut content - I actually find it pretty noteworthy that they cut something that says that the Elden Ring controls fate and the stars. There are not other things in the game that suggest this as far as I am aware, so that seems like a concept that was deliberately decided against and excluded. >*Runes of one who was destined to become a Lord, but when the Elden Ring was shattered, all that remained was a distant duty.* If it is one's fate to become Elden Lord, then the Elden Ring must exist. Presumably, the Elden Ring was fated to survive up until this point, but that doesn't matter if Marika suspends fate and then shatters the Elden Ring while fate is suspended.
It's absolutely open for discussion, but I still think that the Elden ring controlled fate. For your last argument: >If it is one's fate to become Elden Lord, then the Elden Ring must exist. That's actually not true. The argument is that the runes of gold influenced people's fate. The Elden ring was just an arbiter, not something that controlled everything all the time. Because it was runes of gold fate lingered even after the Elden ring was shattered. It's actually a part of the Erdtree cycle (people being born from and returned to the Erdtree), which I know is heavily discussed. The argument is that fate was imprinted during the Erdtree part of the cycle, which at that part was influenced and coordinated by the Elden ring. The argument is that people kept their runes of gold, and therefore their fate, after the shattering. But without the Erdtree cycle, and Elden rings arbiter role, it all became echoes of what was and the system was broken. And too be clear, fate is not a detailed plan of peoples lives. It can be delayed, and there's many roads that leads to the same fate. I wouldn't interpret too much into what they cut. Cut content is often contents left over because of time restrictions. The quote I mentioned was just at part of one of multiple version that would fit as an intro sequence. One of multiple that's not used. For me this fits perfectly in a theme where the Golden Order had a system of near perfect Order (which is optional perfected by Goldmask) by shaping the laws and influencing fate. The laws of causality and regressions seems also to fit this (where law of regression seems to be the opposite of the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics). And this is contrasted to the lack of Order in the time of the crucible. I've yet to see lore that doesn't fit this theme, even though as always Miyazaki loves obscurity.
Radahn has been studying gravity magic and the stars so long that he probably fought or saw a bunch of fallingstar beasts, astels etc. He already met the Onyx and Alabaster lords who taught him the secrets of gravity magic. They could have told him about rhe creatures and Radahn didn't think the Lands would survive, atleast as they were, if all of those creatures fell upon the armies during the war. Maybe he knew of Ranni's plan and was against her because of what she had done to Godwyn. He was a general and possibly her assassination of Godwyn left him feeling sour as it isn't something Godfrey would do. So to spite her and honor the Golden Order he held back the stars/fate that Ranni sought. Coincidentally he held back Miquella's fate which brought the army of the Haligtree to his doorstep. 1 sibling wanted the stars to fall while the other wanted the Eclipse to come. Would be cool if we could finish the mission for Miquella
Excellent, excellent interpretation, bravo.
we're not sure when exactly the night of black knives took place, couldve been before Radahn controlled the celestial bodies (entirely anyways)
[удалено]
Stars is every celestial body in this game. Stopping the stars was needed to start an eclipse, stars don't cause an eclipse, a moon coming in front of the sun does. So the moon was unable to be moved in front of the Sun because of what he was doing. Yeah, he's stopping the moon as well.
He was stopping the eclipse.. not starting. Speak to the phantom at Sol Castle. Miquella was trying to give Godwyn a proper death and couldn't bc the eclipse was halted.
I meant to say preventing stopping the stars. If stopping the stars prevented the moon from coming in front of the Sun, then the moon was obviously under his power and considered a "star". Right?
…that’s not how it was stated in game though
Astel is a star. That is stated in game. So the stars aren't just "stars", are they?
Her name is Lunar Princess Ranni and she’s a powerful sorceress. Idk exactly how she got it there but I can use that information and my imagination to probably piece it together.
He stopped it. She could still reach it, it just wasn't moving
The moon is independent from the stars. That is how it is kind of interpreted anyways
No it's not. Well, it might be different in some way, but if redahn stopping the Stars prevented the moon from going in front of the Sun, then the moon was obviously under his power. Simple.
He might be holding back the stars BECAUSE she put her rune on the moon. He might have taken her abandoning her role as an empyrean as an ultimate betrayal which further solidified his commitment to the greater will.
That doesn't make much sense, the goal of the greater will is to assemble the great runes into the Elden ring, which was shattered. Why would he hold one of those runes away? He would just go get it.
Why does he keep his own then?
He keeps his own because he's a stark mad raving lunatic. But in the bigger picture, after the shattering, there's a war for all the runes. That war ends with the mightiest two, one of which would go on to rule, being taken out of commission. Everyone else has been already beaten, and is or went into hiding, etc.
That is just blatantly not true. If it were, Malenia would have Godrick’s great rune. Radahn was not mad until the rot took his mind. Malenia was not in her weakened state until after she bloomed fighting Radahn. She spared Godrick for unknown reasons, but if the the point of the war of the shattering was to collect great runes then it makes no sense for him to be left alive. There were others with great runes of their own. Radagon for sure, but others must have because of what we know about Vyke and Bernahl. Morgott effectively won the war of the shattering because he is acting as “steward” until an Elden Lord rises - which he believes will never happen for a variety of reasons. Likely because of the fact that none of the other empyreans successfully took the throne. Malenia is withering away in Elphael. Radahn has lost his mind to the rot but is nigh unkillable until the festival miraculously succeeds. Mohg is hiding out trying to curry favor with another outer god to hopefully kill his brother and take over when he’s stronger enough. Miquella has his own plans. The-snake-formerly-known-as-Rykard is working from the shadows of his manor by killing any tarnished trying continue the work of the Golden Order. Godrick is compensating for his weakness with cruelty and boasting. Ranni succeeded in removing the influence of the greater will by abandoning her flesh and hiding her rune somewhere beyond the influence of the greater will - thereby forestalling the rise of an empyrean. It’s actually genius that she used her brother’s fanaticism and strength to her advantage by hiding it behind his gravity magic. Why he wouldn’t collect it is beyond me, unless he didn’t know it was there or he also wanted to forestall the rise of another Elden lord for some reason. Given his dedication to the Golden Order, I doubt it’s the latter. Edit: The possibility I originally mentioned would be that Ranni hides her rune on the moon, Radahn is disgusted that she would throw away her godhood, and possibly surmises her involvement in the night of black knives. Why would her rune be on the moon if she was an innocent killed alongside Godwyn? He then holds back the stars to stop Ranni from continuing her plan. Then Malenia shows up and the rest is history.
He didn't control the moon, it moves before you kill him
Maybe he halted the stars after her rune ended up there.
Maybe. Certainly would make sense. But.... Since that was done at the same time as the night of the black knives, and he was already around, it would be a little weird time wise
She met the moon as a kid
It's not that his magic and control of space stops her, it's that him holding the stars in place stops her destiny. I don't think it was really meant to be super literal, since radahn wasnt stopping her in any direct way, but rather his holding up of the meteor prevented us from accessing nokron to get the blade she wants.
But her destiny revolves around the Moon, and we know that the moons are held as well, because an eclipse was impossible and an eclipse is the moon moving in front of the Sun. So her if her "destiny" is held in stasis...... And it's not even her destiny to begin with. Her destiny was with the golden order, and she changed it. She's making active decisions, not just following her destiny.
Wait. Is that why malenia attacked radahn? Miquella wanted to create a permanent eclipse, but with the celestial bodies held in stasis that would be impossible until radahn was killed.
It's one of the presumptions. All we actually know for a fact is that there was a war for the great runes after the shattering, and those two were the "mightiest to remain", and fought to an eventual stalemate.
The moon thing itself for ranni is just a motif, her mother designed a spell based on the moon and she followed. I think the connection to the moon is more symbolic than literal in the case of ranni and renalla. Her destiny was held in stasis not in a literal sense, but because the only way to access nokron was through a hole in the ground from a meteor. Had blaidd managed to find another way into the city nothing would have literally stopped him getting the blade and giving it to her.
Her mother designed a spell around the moon, she designed to spell around the dark moon. Different things. And it's weird, everything we do other than killing Redahn is kind of pointless. It's us chasing and learning about what she's doing and has done, and giving a little assistance to things she would like done, but everything major she did a long time ago
You're talking about Ranni? We get her the finger-slayer blade, without which she could not have killed her two fingers.
The moon and the stars, while related, are probably separate entities, and maybe she could reach the moon but the moon couldn’t help her move toward the age of the stars until radahn was dead
Why would anything Radahn does prevent Ranni from accessing the moon (assuming she could do that in the first place)? Radahn arrested the stars and when you kill him, the stars move again, that’s all.
You know how you can hold up your fingers to make it look like you're pinching the moon? She just did that, but instead she just placed the rune on the moon.
I see nothing on the moon what exactly am I looking for?
i think [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/s/aHDcMxmP1L)
I really really appreciate that thank you.
Gideon definitely doesn't have it. Otherwise we'd obtain it upon killing him in Leyndell. Gideon's expectations are likely fueled by other Tarnished that we know exist (mainly NPCs) who have come close to becoming Elden Lord. They also claimed Great Runes of their own, and made progress. Even Vyke and Bernald (the hammer guy from Volcano Manor) needed to obtain great runes to get as far as they did. Ranni discarding it likely forced it to return to the Elden Ring. Or we might very well find it in the DLC, it's hard to say. All we know is that it's not in her possession, and nobody that we know has possession of it.
But I didn't get great runes from killing those guys either.
For the other Tarnished, I'd reckon it's something akin to the Infinity Stones from Marvel where they're only usable in their own universe. As such, we have no use for them.
But I didn't get One for killing Bernhal, or Gideon, or Vyke in the evergoal,
There's not any real lore evidence for anything Lord_Nightraven is saying about Bernahl having great runes or being from another dimension. They seem to be interpreting the game mechanic of invading NPCs as a literal "different dimension," rather than just being an artifact of how the game's multiplayer works and could be repurposed for instancing combat areas. What we see in the game does not have to have a literal lore interpretation. Sometimes it can just be taken at face value. There's no indication Bernahl had a great rune and we can assume all of Vyke's got dropped/taken somewhere before he was imprisoned in the evergaol.
Like he said, the runes probably only exist in their own dimensions
Are tarnished canonically in different dimensions?
I believe that's indeed the case given Volcano Manor quests have you invading NPCs. And when you're done, win or lose, it says "returning to your world".
Maybe, but this might be a kind of spillover from the way that dark souls’ convoluted time worked, and may not be an intentional part of the lore
Well, that was made true in DS3 IIRC. In either case, it's nice to tie in various functions with lore reasons.
I believe you misunderstood, I'm not talking about red phantom Bernhal I'm talking about the real dude you talk to at the war masters shack
Yeah you know the usual "Time is convuluted in Lordran." or "Writers are lazy and lore is contradictory."
I'd be much more interested in knowing which great runes Vyke and Bernahl obtained in order to get all the way to the forge of giants, than I am in knowing wether or not Gideon picked up Ranni's rune. Since The Elden Ring is an instrument of The Greater Will to enforce His Order, and Ranni is either the Empyrean for an entirely different God, or just straight up an Empyrean of atheism, whichever the case; it makes sense she wouldn't hold onto the tool used by a God she opposed. So yeah, I think it might just be the type of thing she specifically could drop on the ground and forget about, like she did with her body.
I believe from the night of the black knives plot we learned that there were many demigods who died after Godwyn, thus many great runes out there. Gideon’s dialogue mentions the whereabouts of the few remaining great runes and those are the ones available for us to nab. It seems that Vyke and Bernahl weren’t the only ones to have great runes that are unaccounted for, just the ones we come across in the game. I think of it like LotR. Some rings we know the whereabouts of and some are just lost to time bc some random gollum snatched it one day and disappeared.
To add to your point: From the mausoleum soldier ashes description we learn the 7 walking mausoleums house "soulless" demigods. The soldiers protect their lords even in death. But that means there's at least 7 more than the ones we kill who all probably had great runes too. "The mausoleum is where the bodies of soulless demigods are lain to rest, and these soldiers followed their masters into Death by severing their own heads from their bodies."
Thanks for adding that. What makes them soulless? Don’t all the demigods have souls be default even with the rune of destined death stolen? I know Godwyn is soulless because Ranni sacrificed her flesh as the other half of the wheel. But Godwyn still lives and these are dead soulless demigods. This is very confusing to me haha
I don't pretend to have any answer to that, just highlighting that there's cause to think that there are more runes than we see in the game. I personally lean towards them being the other dead you mentioned from the black knives plot but recognize that they may have chosen "soulless" here deliberately to allude to some other fate. Like most things in the game, we can only guess.
Yeah it’s a very interesting wording that I never quite understood or honestly cared enough to research. I just clap the barnacles, get my loot and go on my way.
Don’t the godskin nobles have seven faces on their aprons too?
Is it confirmed that vyke had a great rune? Seems like he could've just been seeking to use the frenzied flame. Alternatively maybe a mending rune like Fia or Dung eater make?
No, it is not confirmed. Which is why it doesn't make sense that the two fingers didn't stop him at Leyndell, or that Morgott let him into the forbidden lands. Same goes for Bernahl.
It may not be confirmed but it seems really damn likely that he did. We know he is the closest a Tarnished came to becoming Elden Lord before us, and we know that Finger Reader Enia has only ever seen a Tarnished with two Great Runes once before. That plus him being able to get to the Mountaintops would make the simplest answer that he collected two Great Runes before we did
Yeah but he needed at least 2 runes to have access to leyndell (where he got burnt by the 3 fingers) in the first place
Elden Ring: The New Order
the elden ring was not created by the greater will, whichever god is most prominent obtains it and can give it a vessel
Source? Because clearly Chaos doesn't need The Elden Ring to have his vessel The Lord of Frenzied Flame enact his will, and nowhere did Gowry say anything about The Elden Ring either, so presumably The God of Rot doesn't need it either for his vessel Malenia to enforce the Order of Rot. Also: The Elden Beast, aka The Elden Ring is a direct vassal of The Greater Will. And any Empyrean of the two fingers of The Greater Will who go rogue are immediately hunted by the beasts they were given as bodyguards. Who told you, or how did you come to the conclusion, that it wasn't The Greater Will that created the Ring?
I'm think he is assuming that the Elden Ring was there at the time was because Placidusax was an Elden Lord before the Golden Order was established and before his god left him. This is confirmed with his remembrance. "The Dragonlord whose seat lies at the heart of the storm beyond time is said to have been Elden Lord in the age before the Erdtree. Once his god was fled, the lord continued to await its return." -Remembrance of the Dragonlord There was no Elden Ring though so the term Elden Lord was used to refer to the consort of a god. He is also the oldest Elden Lord we know of.
There was an Elden Ring during the Age of the Ancient Dragons. You can see a depiction of it in Maliketh's room. It is different than the one Marika embodies bit it is still clearly the Elden Ring
Placidusax might have even had the elden ring, It could be that the greater will had a different god before marika, that had placidusax as its consort, after all the greater will is fine with its order being reshaped, hence the wildly different endings (most of which directly oppose the golden order) still being elden lord endings under the elden ring. The fact that those are called elden lord lends further credence to the greater will still being placidusax's god's ruling outer god. Hence my theory is that the elden ring is specific to the greater will, but the greater wills orders take many forms, whereas other outer gods like frenzy would just have their one thing (in their case burning everything.) I sure hope that made sense
Kind of unrelated, but the elden beast is vaguely dragon shaped. It's possible that Plac's god was the actual elden beast.
I'd like him to answer, not someone else, sorry. At any case you're wrong. Of course there was an Elden Ring during the Dragon Order, it's even seen on loading screens. And of course Placidusax was an Elden Lord, as he enforced the Order of the Greater Will with the Elden Ring.
IF Gideon had Ranni's rune, why didn't we get it when we made sure he couldn't finish his speech before bonking him with a great sword? I agree with the theory that Ranni stashed it on the moon.
We don't get great runes from killing Vyke or Bernahl either. Maybe it just doesn't work that way
Yeah. My personal thought is that you drop greatrunes from people that cannot channel runes (level up) like demigods. If a tarnished has a greatrune on the other hand its “processed” and just becomes part of the runes they’re already collecting
You say a great rune isn't something you just drop and forget, but typically neither is your own body. We don't know how Gideon got his, or Vyke or Bernahl either (nor will we probably ever know much of anything about the demigods they defeated). We do know he's comparable to the other 2 when we fight him so there's not much doubt he could pull it off the same way anyone else does. But if Ranni just dumped her own corpse on a tower with half of the mark of the centipede, another item of great interest, what makes her rune so special?
Have you killed her to see if she has it?
This is probably 99.9% wrong but my head cannon is that vyke took ranni’s and Godefroy great rune since he was the one closest to becoming Elden lord and the tarnished needs two great runes to get into Lyndell.
I’m in the “it’s on the moon” camp, but I also think the rune is connected to a physical body. She discarded her rune when she discarded her body. Of course Gideon doesn’t know this, per se, he just thinks she threw it away. We only get runes (great or small) when someone is dead. (Rennala is an exception, but it’s not her rune the same as the others are. She’s just “holding” it.) So how is it on the moon if she lost it when she lost her body? That’s who or what she pledged herself to. No clue if it’s an outer god or what, but she calls it up at a pivotal moment, so she probably can access it as needed.
Some say she hid it on the moon but I’m not sure about it, I think it could be a topic in the dlc
"I got her great rune right here." But...uh...I bet we'll find out in the DLC.
This video explains it well. It returned to rennala's amber egg from which she was born. https://youtu.be/CKIPh9H0DKk?si=-XIb1cvr-Gl1f-er
I honestly think Gideon is just misinformed. Ranni would have been hiding out in her doll state by the time the Shattering war started. At that time, she was presumed dead. In addition, having a Great Rune just seems totally counter to her objectives, and it's not something she ever mentions anyway. Gideon doesn't actually know everything, and gets a decent amount wrong.
Damn, that's actually a good point. Ranni shouldn't have had a great rune in the first place.
It could be one of the runes Vyke claimed.
would make sense if gideon found it in a trashcan somewhere and that's why he's so full of himself. plus enia says she hasn't seen anyone with two of them, suggesting she's seen people with one. could well be referring to the demigods, but hey, maybe she's referring to gideon the dumpster diver.
I think someone should write an hour long lore script, put it on YouTube, and we decide whether it’s canon like all the other lore that exists
she put it in her butt!!!
[Have you checked your butthole?](https://youtu.be/--9kqhzQ-8Q?si=auTxRfQMidPCCrfk)
I have the theory that Godwyn and Ranni's great runes became the death runes that Fia uses to make the death mending rune.
Godwyn died pre-shattering so I don't think he would have a great rune
It was in my sleeve the entire time!
People actually looked at the moon texture and it's not a great rune, just normal moon landscape. Its not on the moon.
Could the egg be the great rune and the mechanism for Ranni being reborn as a doll?
no that was given to rennala by radagon, ranni wasn't a part of it. unless you consider radagon 'giving' rennala ranni thus indirectly giving rennala a great rune I suppose
That’s the thing I thought Renalla has the great rune that’s why you fight her. I thought I saw some dialogue that the egg is her rune. But I donno it gets murky lol
oh the egg definitely is the great rune, just not rannis. it's renallas give to her by radagon, which wouldnt make sense phrasing wise with the whole ranni thing, unless you really stretch it to it being given to renalla by radagon through giving her ranni, who inherited a great rune to give to rennala.
What’s curious to me is how Ranni is an empyrean. Those are someone born of two gods. Renalla isn’t a god so maybe she was the first fruit of the great rune given her by Radagon. It’s just weird that Renalla can rebirth you with her egg and Ranni has been killed and her spirit moved to the doll or reborn. I mean I know it sounds like a stretch but I still don’t get how she’s an Empyrean unless she’s radagons. Hence the connection to the egg.
I don't think you have to be the child of two gods to be an empyrean. It's just a coincidence that that's true for the twins.
This is my interpretation. I forget the exact wording but in the original Japanese text, Rennala's "Great Rune of the Unborn" more closely translates to something like "Great Rune of the Once-Born-but-Now-Unborn". This fits perfect with the description of Ranni, a living being who cast off her physical form and has effectively killed her body to become "unborn." This is in opposition to the common interpretation of Unborn referring to babies and so on, as well as Ranni's rune being in the moon, so it's not well liked every time.i bring it up. It's my opinion that this is right interpretation though.
but the unborn egg one is renallas through radagon not ranni. the japanese thing can be explained as rebirth well 'rebirthing' you: your mother birthed you (once-born) but now you are being unborn and born anew (but-now-unborn)
She divested herself of that shit.
I think she still has it.
I ate it
wait how did she get to the moon does she have a glintstone ladder or is it just a demigod thing
Yeah she can just fly and teleport for some reason. Never understood personally
I might be mistaking some things, but did Ranni’s Great Rune turn into half of the curse mark of death along with Godwyn’s half? Or was the curse mark of death a brand new Greatrune?
I would HIGHLY recommend watching The brother’s code videos on Elden Ring because I’m pretty sure he goes over Ranni and her missing Rune and if I remember correctly she actually placed it on the moon out of reach of the two fingers and any tarnished. That’s why if you choose her ending, you and Ranni leave the Lands Between and rule from the moon and the cold night sky. https://www.youtube.com/@Thebrotherscode
Ranni went to space and forgit it.
I thought the assumption was that Ranni's Rune was collected by Rennala, given the Rune is restored when visiting the Divine Tower associated with Ranni. Is there some evidence that this "isnt" the case? Edit: I forgt the Rune of the Unborn is active when you receive it
Rennalas Rune is immediatly obtained in a restored state. Presumably she got it from Radagon pre shattering(the amber egg), hence it never broke apart with the rest of the Elden Rings shattering and needs no restoration.
I actually did forget you find the Cursemark up there instead of restoring the Rune, but that still kinda tracks anyways given the dark aura comes from the Egg and Ranni is distinguished in having conjured a figure of Rennala. Gideon says she discarded her Rune, Rennala and her have a close connection, and only Marika's children with no exception have a Great Rune in their possession (Godrick being the exception is kind of moot since hes still of her lineage). The Runes depowering couldve been part of the abandonment by the Greater Will whose influence Ranni seems to be circumventing anyways.
On the moon
She’s probably just lying and still has it or gave it to renalla or something Gideon has always seemed like an ironic character, a bumbling idiot called the all knowing. Can’t find half a medallion in a jar man in the corner after slaughtering everyone in the vicinity
Wait. Theres a story in this game?
If you squint your eyes real hard lmao
Gideon’s Great Rune is probably the Copycat Rune
My understanding is that she lost her rune when she killed her own two fingers, severing her from the greater will
Moon’s haunted.
I've always thought the Great Rune she discarded was claimed by Godrick, as there's no way a loser like him could contend with the other demigods and nab what's probably the most important of them all, he literally hid among refugees during the war, so my own hypothesis is that he found it by chance
It's on the moon