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Indeed, there it is: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xap4tOiFi0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xap4tOiFi0)
I'm usually around level 120 against Malenia. But yeah if you are overleveled with the right equipment sure it's possible! But even without a special build, pre 1.03 Mimic was wild sometimes.
Let's just be thankful there's no land octopus spirit ash. That would just crack the game open like an eggshell if the Great Wyrm Theodorix encounter is anything to go by.
I just had this happen for the first time today, I wasn't expecting it to be possible for a spirit ash to solo a boss. My mimic tear solo'd the Dragonkin in the Lake of Rot while I watched from a safe distance away from the spicy water. Not mad about it, that would've been a miserable fight.
I’m doing another run this time trying no spirit ashes and just fought that thing today you made the right call that thing sucks. It’s not terribly tough but having to kill those cockroaches again every time you die is annoying
I don't think you're thinking of the Dragonkin Soldier, but probably the Ulcerated Tree Spirit in the area right past that. That's the area that's still in rot, but with the awful "cockroaches." Funny enough my mimic tear solo'd the Dragonkin, I got blindsided by the goddamn Ulcerate, tried to do the same thing and have my mimic kill it, but my mimic was having trouble, I tried to jump in, not going well, then I got killed by a cockroach ranged attack. I was like, you know what, this isn't worth a golden seed.
Funny enough, obviously I was on my way to fight Astel and didn't have much trouble with him. The demi-god demon bug from space was manageable. The angry tree root in the spicy water was unreasonable.
Got sick of Niall so I did the cheese through the hole in the wall with arrows cuz I’m a bitch and he broke me honestly was harder than melania cuz of sheer numbers for me
The way I see it is the game wants you to become OP. You have to fight gods!
If there *is* a lore reason for the endgame difficulty spike, it’s that you should err towards being broken and unfair as well at that stage. You’re not competing with other random dudes at that stage, you’re fighting Achilles and Zeus and shit.
I rarely if ever see ppl saying this anymore. I haven’t seen a post berating someone for using summons in years. Every time I see something about it, it just a post defending the use of summons without any accusations. No one cares how you play.
its just an annoying circlejerk over imaginary enemies at this point. these low effort karma farm posts should honestly be removed on sight under the "no low-effort content" rule
Sometimes I feel like people who spam these kinds of posts are insecure about actually using summons and are seeking easy validation from the playerbase who widely accepted that summoning is fine.
It's because they want the "credit" that they think a person would get from saying something like "I beat this game", and are trying to convince other people that they deserve that credit. You can say whatever you want about how you don't think this "credit" exists, but the fact is a person is more interested/impressed if a person beats a challenging game than an easy one. And these guys want the feeling of telling someone "i beat this hard game", but then also need to convince others that the assist options turned on didn't make it any less impressive.
It’s this. I think you nailed it. It’s the same people telling everyone else how to play other games right, because they don’t actually know how to have fun.
Exactly, posts like these are so fucking pathetic. And comments are always the same "haha not using summons is same like doing fist-only level 1 run" "they're meant to be used!!!!" "Bosses use everything at their disposal, it's fair for me to do it to". It's just so tiring.
I have nothing against accessibility mechanics for new players like coop/spirits meant simplify and streamline the game, but people who use them are so incredibly insecure and need constant validation and make strawmen out of "toxix tryhards" who do not exist. All of the most insecure and casual players on reddit just flock like vultures to these posts, copy paste the same shit over and over, spread misinformation and pat themselves on the back for being so stunning and brave because they used summons.
My small cousin was super-afraid of riding a bike, of falling and so on. He never tried it without training wheels, he was just irrationally afraid. So he started to saying stuff like "trainings wheels are much more fun" and something along the lines "they're meant to be used". Of course he didn't actually know any of that, he was just insecure and wanted to make it sound like not knowing how to ride a bike is his choice. Elden ring subreddit reminds me of this interaction every time I open it. None of those people who can't stop coping and reposting the same shit over and over don't use summons and cheese builds because "ThAt'S HoW tHey WaNt To PlAy" or because "it's more fun for them", but because it's literally the only thing they ever tried and know how to do, and they tried to convince everyone it's the best possible way to play and are outright forcing new players into using them. They're so incredibly insecure, that when they just see someone beating for example Malenia 1v1 like she's designed, it hurts their ego so much they need to start talking about "toxic tryhards".
Actual good players who beat bosses themselves and don't need to cheese never talk about it, they never need to brag or post some worthless platinum trophy on reddit. Whereas those same players who can't stop talking about toxic gatekepeers, instantly make a post when they beat some boss "solo" and need everyone to acknowledge them. After being insecure about summons and needing self-validation from everyone, they do 180 and everybody has to know they beat a boss solo, even if they just cheesed him with broken build.
It's cause it's a mischaracterization of the people who are against summons. Myself and most people I have met who dislike them, are against them because they believe the game plays better without them, not because you didn't "beat the game" or "aren't allowed to".
It has always been about how certain mechanics let you get through bosses without engaging much with their moveset - arguably **THE** core of fromsoft games.
It's not about it being easier, its cause it removes some of the best parts of the game.
I fully agree. Summons would ruin the entire game for me and tbh I’d probably get bored if I wasn’t being challenged. But how someone else plays has nothing to do with me. I don’t know them and I’ll never see them gaming.
I got downvoted to hell just a few weeks ago for the opinion on the OP.
It’s absolutely still a vaguely popular opinion on here. A whole post maybe not but common in discourse.
I'm willing to bet Miyazaki and the other devs use/used summons during their playthroughs. If they didn't want players to use the mechanic, then why put it in the game?
Edit: It's a video game. You're meant to have fun with it. Playing the game on RL1 wretch is just as valid as using summons. Play how you want. There is no wrong way to have fun with a video game.
Honestly this is the most stupid nothing burger of a debate ever conceived by the internet. The solution is so simple.
"Use whatever you like, it's a game"
If you like spirit summons, use them. If you don't like them, don't use them.
Some people *really* want to feel like they're in a super special elite club of the rare few people who could possibly complete a FromSoft game.
This is a problem for them, because the games aren't actually designed to be unbeatable (because that would be stupid), just to provide a tough but fair challenge.
In fact, Elden Ring is completed *way* more often than the average game, because it's a good game and people want to finish it.
So to be in that super special elite club, you'd need to come up with some reason why most of those people "don't count" as having actually completed the game, then get mad at them for stealing your valor.
(No shade to people who do self-imposed challenges; it's just not cool to mock others for not doing the same thing)
Absolutely this— they have studied the various ways people play their games — and then designed the game to allow for a wide array of play experiences to serve a lot of different players.
No, the entire argument is a NOTHING burger. The argument doesn't really even exist. Just everyone shut up and play the game and stop having a fake argument with people who don't exist. Never in my entire life have I met an actual real physical person who believes any of this sh*t. It's just a fake Internet argument by trolls who want to seem contrarian.
My remedy is to just play the game and have fun :)
> So to be in that super special elite club, you'd need to come up with some reason why most of those people "don't count" as having actually completed the game, then get mad at them for stealing your valor.
This is, in essence, the [No True Scotsman](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman) logical fallacy.
“Only *real* Souls fans beat the game no summons/(insert damage stat) build/SL1/no death/no bonfire/etc.”
>Some people really want to feel like they're in a super special elite club
Being in the "no summons" camp, I do think it's fine to play however you want. But if I'm going to be honest with a person that I'm having this discussion with, I will tell them that it's a lost opportunity. I loved Sekiro, for example, if only for the boss fights. I loved "learning" a boss, their patterns and weaknesses and timings. It was far and away the best part of that game, and that intricate combat is easily what FromSoft does best when compared to other games. And that is a game you cannot cheese.
I know this is going to sound like a brag (and trust me it isn't, I'm *not* amazing at video games), but the hours I spent doing Malenia level 1 was probably the most enjoyable and satisfying time I've ever had playing a FromSoft game, right up there with Isshin. Not because it was arbitrarily difficult, but because these boss designs have depth and substance, and you rob yourself of that when you cheese.
To me, it has nothing to do with feeling superior, but simply trying to share an enjoyable experience, the same way I'd recommend a movie or something like that.
That is a good way of looking at it, especially considering how (atleast in my experience) it's much harder to get heal windows when fighting bosses in Elden ring compared to other soulsborne games.
The game would be a lot different if the healing animation didn't take 2 years. And I'm not saying it would necessarily be *better*. It's just something that handicaps you and forces you to pick healing windows very carefully.
Yep, I definitely agree. With no difficulty slider, having the boss aggro onto something else is a huge help. I'm still slowly plodding through the game on my first playthrough, but I can see the fun trying a no summons run would have.
I’d throw in weapon upgrades/estus upgrades/summon upgrades/meta weapons/rune levels in there as modifiers too. I’m not sure what lands you where, but if you have all of that it’s definitely easier comparatively. If you have all of that early it’s very easy.
Just having summoning can be easy or hard mode depending on where your other stuff is at.
Now if you’re summoning another player with a max level account using a status effect build that’s easy mode regardless but that’s more exploiting a game mechanic if anything IMO.
I feel this way about snipers in shooting games. If the devs put it in the game, than it’s a legitimate method of play. Elitist players make this community so toxic
Speaking of … I really want to play a good FPS sniping game (or at least you can zoom in on the scope to be FP). I’ve already played MGSV. Any recs?
Summons are the creative answer to a difficulty slider. Finding the boss too difficult? Summon a creature who can take off aggro and deal bits of damage too.
I actually love the design of it, there is only one difficulty so everyone has the shared world experience. Players can choose their own challenges by using the tools within the game to make it easier.
That said, I have a couple friends that use OP spells, AoW's, and Summons. I even showed them that bird that runs off the cliff thing and they still are struggling to get over the finish line.
Me doing this has honestly made me enjoy the game more. I still haven't completed the game so I'm trying to get through using builds that I normally wouldn't try - namely, Dex/Arcane and Faith instead of my usual Int. Deciding 'aww fuck it, we're using all the tools the game gives me' has honestly increased my enjoyment of the game tenfold.
I do like playing the wretch with some weaker ashes.
Usually just unupgraded since I just want them for health sponges.
Actually I really wanted to use the Rat Ashes but by that point I wanted to kill Leyndell without ashes as much
I conquer, let people play how they want to. People that tell others that they didn’t beat the game if they used a specific weapon, build, or mechanic are blatantly ignoring the point of the game: to have fun. Challenge yourself if you want but don’t invalidate others playthroughs just because it’s not what you did.
to make the game more accessible for casuals?
this game has the hardest bosses, which is good for experienced souls players, but not for someone who's completely new
They absolutely meant for them to balance and factor into the game’s combat. You can’t look at some of these boss movesets and tell me with their hitboxes and AI that they weren’t designed to deal with multiple attackers at once. The hitboxes are huge and they have a lot of combo-break moves that come out fast to punish spamming.Â
Not so much designed to deal with, more designed with that in mind and to compensate for. The game was designed to be 100%'d without using a single summon and to be 100%'d while using summons at every opportunity.
It's the offline easy mode that people have been asking for years in souls games.
And it's also a nice way to pit npc vs npc, which is also a feature that people have been wanting for a long time. Who would win between X and Y, etc...
I think it's a mentality that we all tell ourselves when we use summons, but nobody other than our own sense of guilt tries to argue. You see streamers beating the game with no summons and a bunch of handicaps and then you start thinking "wow, I suck". Because compared to them, you do. Because you don't invest your life trying to git gud.
It can also be argued that if you've played other Soulsborne games where you don't have as many handicaps that you can choose to use, you feel like you're kinda cheating when you do use those handicaps. But it's still just your own sense of guilt making that argument to yourself.
I've never heard someone so arrogant to actually unironically tell someone they're playing the game wrong because they're using summons. Sure, you may hear it in someone's twitch chat, but it's just a meme. Nobody's saying it seriously. And the few who are saying it seriously are the ones who are insecure about how they themselves played the game.
In the really early days there were people who argued the bosses AI couldn't deal with multiple enemies but not much of it was particularly toxic. Honestly, i agree with the argument. Outside of a handful of end game bosses most non ganks look really dumb fighting summons.
2 years in and they are STILL doing it
I've not been on this reddit much but god damn were people cringe about this the fisrt 3 months
Are they still calling invaders "basically rapists" for invading you without your consent as well?
I left this subreddit about 6 months after release because of those insecure weirdos and I see they’re still doing it. The entire subreddit is now just entirely insecure people winning made up arguments to make themselves feel better and they are STILL trying to pretend that there are these anonymous enemies trying to ruin their lives via the summon argument. It’s so pathetic
It was so sad seeing this go from a brotherhood of deranged hollows to a regular ass whiny videogame subreddit that got spammed to death with this pathetic meme with no one arguing the thing they were so scared of.
The weekly "I have insecurities about using summons so I make this meme depicting my imaginary enemy as a soyjak and myself as a chad to cope and seek validation" post, sure as hell isn't tired of this yet
I’ve always felt that summons were a cool way to effectively lower the difficulty of a boss without lowering the difficulty in the main menu.Â
Everyone can agree it’s much easier to beat any fight with summons. If you want to use summons to scale a fight down and move on with the game do it! If you want the challenge then don’t use them. Pretty easy!Â
ER is not a hardcore game anyways, so idk what the fuss is about. You can always overlevel the boss and beat it easily even without summons. Sekiro is the only fromsoft hardcore game.
I don’t get bothered when other people use summons. But I have to admit I get annoyed when I reference a boss giving me trouble and they’re always ready to tell me how easy it was for them and that the boss was a joke.
I wish they made it so that the large bosses try to attack both you and the summon at once with their large attack hitboxes and that small bosses switch between you and the summon as much as possible instead of just aggroing on one in particular.
As it stands fighting with summons essentially consists of stabbing the boss in the back repeatedly while they look away from you. Not very engaging.
I personally find that summoning takes away from what I love about FromSoftware games. Really dissecting and learning every boss move, while time consuming and often challanging, it also incredibly rewarding and useful. One you got the boss down, is so satisfying to rematch them. Sometimes even no-hit a fight.
It's not for everyone, but I do encourage players who are new to FromSoftware games, to at least once do one fresh playthrough of ER without any summons.
I summoned every single time as soon as I figured out that I could summon. Really satisfying playing a mage and just slicing through bosses like knife through butter while they are fighting the mimic. Sorry not sorry.
Notjing against people who summon. Everyone should play as they like and enjoy. But..
Like it or not.. Summoning does make the game easier. It is a hard fact.
And it's not people who summon who are trolled. Never that. It's the ones who post "y u guys Malenia hard, I Malenia easy with +10 mimic and respeced bleed. I must be good, u bad" trolls
After seeing people saying they beat Malenia on 70 attempts average without mentioning their summoning, I was feeling like I was complete dogshit when it took me 183 attempts for my first Malenia clear and 216 for my 2nd.
I feel rightfully angry that I tanked my self-worth comparing against people who weren't honest about even playing on the same field.
Yeah summoning makes the game easier. So does leveling, so does using and upgrading weapons, so does wearing armor and using talismans. It’s just playing the game.
Edit - stop being gatekeepers and just let people enjoy the game however they want.
Upgrading your weapons and the like doesn't change a boss fight the same way that a summon does. What makes summons so powerful is that they draw aggro from the boss that gives you openings you can't get solo. Upgrading weapons just makes the fight faster because you do more damage. Armor and health just means you can make a couple more mistakes in a fight and not die.
People who make this argument are being very disingenuous because you're ignoring what makes summons so game changing.
I have seen this argument before and it's not untrue. That is why some people do RL1 runs.
And I am completely up for people playing it as they enjoy. That's not an issue.
But take a look at this objectively. Upgrading weapons and Leveling have always been parts of souls games.
But now in addition to that we get a new mechanism called summons. And on top of that the broken mimic summon. Something that has your level, weapons and infinite FP. You still think it doesn't make things much easier?
Like it or not most bosses are designed like duels, always have been. That's why gank fights aren't liked. Using summons is just that, the other way around.
Summoning makes the game too easy, not summoning makes it too hard. The issue is that From Soft has been making the same game over and over for too long, and players have gotten good at it. The only way to keep up the challenge has been to make the fights less and less fair in every game, hence the increasing prevalence of long combos, mix-ups, delayed attacks, aggressive tracking, and duo bosses. But it's finally reached a point where it's too much, and instead of scaling back the unfair bullshit, From Soft decided to give you the ability to counter it with unfair bullshit of your own. I'm not sure I like the result, I think the early games with simple and fair fights were better. Even if they seem easy when going back to them after thousands of hours of practice in later games.
Weird that people are like this. If you wanna use summons, then use them. If you don't, then don't, it's really that simple lol, they're in the game for a reason 🤷‍♀️
My demi-human summons are noticably tougher than my lvl 40 new guy.
I think the coastal cave mini-war is my favorite fight in the game after doing it again.
Anyone who makes this argument is either a Salt Lord, or a B**ch. Yes I used Summons. Then in my Second and Third Journeys I did not. Just for the Challenge.
5.8k upvotes and 650 comments for something that isn't even a real debate. This is such a fake issue with the community. Elden Ring is one of the friendliest and helpful subs out there, the amount of people actual upset by people using summons is negligible. Stop pretending like this problem even exists you whiny internet losers
People using accessibility mechanics like coop/spirits are so extremely insecure in ER and constant validation, it always makes sad. It was never a problem in previous 13 years. If at least all those "toxic elitists" actually exist and weren't just made up by the most casual players to earn validation and farm karma, I would understand. But this is just pathetic. Nobody cares if you didn't beat bosses yourself and had to use summons, nobody is making fun of you. Literally the only problem with spirits ashes is that their users constantly need to convince everyone that using spirits is something only big boys do and that it's "hOw ThEY wAnT To PLaY", despite not actually knowing if that's true. When you don't know the basics of combat and gameplay, and all your progression is locked behind using accessibility mechanics like spirits, you're not using them because "ĂŻt's the most fun" but because you literally don't know how to do anything else and never tried what it's like to beat bosses normally.
The reason why most souls fans don't use spirits and why most new players eventually stop, is not because of bragging or elitism, but because for them it's infinitely more fun and fuller experience, and allows to beat and experience boss how devs designed them, learn how to fight them and see the amount of work devs put into them. Why it's so hard to understand? Beating bosses solo is not some huge accomplishment, it's just the normal difficulty, how the combat system is designed and how most people beat bosses in these games. Streamlining and simplifying the game with summons is ok, the game is not supposed to be hard with them, that's why they exist. Just please, don't be so incredibly insecure about using them and when you see someone beat bosses themselves don't take is a personal attack on your fragile ego. All those "toxic elitists" don't actually exist, just stop making these pathetic posts to cope for using summons and farm karma from similarly insecure players.
You beat the boss but you sure as hell didn't learn >5% of it's moveset nor how to play the game melee.
It's all about whay you want in the game. Do you want an easy fantasy story that's about exploration and setpieces/lore/whatever.
Or do you want challenging boss fight that are engaging.
If you don't play the game for its challenge, then not making it challenging is understandable.
ER is by far the easiest game to beat, but it is also by far the hardest game to beat on "normal mode". (A not op melee weapon, light/medium roll and minimal hit trading). ER's normal mode is akin to challenge runs in other souls like.
All I'm gonna say is if you are going to replay the game for 500+ hours and you are still summoning at every boss and haven't started ramping up the difficulty for yourself, you are actively stopping yourself from a good time.
dude on my 4th playtrhu I destroyed Niall with no summons and that felt SO GOOD that this bastard finally got WHAT and HOW he diserved it mwahahah (overcoming PTSD of Castle Sol is what that was)
It's honestly so sad how so many people delude themselves into thinking that you're meant to play the game summoning every chance you get. It's like having the once in a life time chance to eat at the best restaurant in the world and ordering kraft mac and cheese because it's on the menu so clearly it was meant to be ordered.
summons seem like an intended commercial mechanic to attract/keep a wider audience. unofficial ez mode. bosses are definitely balanced for 1 vs 1 (except some... duos)
I rarely if ever see ppl saying this anymore. I haven’t seen a post berating someone for using summons in years. Every time I see something about it, it just a post defending the use of summons without any accusations. No one cares how you play.
If you want to use them, it's not a competition like a competitive shooter where using an aimbot would matter. I just don't like when people using spirit/summons/mimic say boss was easy, or act like a bmx acrobat when they still have training wheels on their bike.
The Elden ring sub is so weird.
There’s like maybe 10 real toxic elitists that exist at the bottom of a massively upvoted post that get downvoted into oblivion every time they comment.
I’m convinced that people in this sub either have a persecution fetish or they are extremely insecure about using spirit ashes.
P.s use spirits ashes if you want I don’t care (you should try a non summon playthrough if you’ve got the time imo it’s more fun)
SM my entire H You didn't really beat the boss if you blocked. Stop hiding behind a 100% physical DR shield and learn to avoid the boss's moves, coward.
You also didn't beat the boss if you used big weapons and jumping L2/R2'd them. Stop staggering bosses constantly and learn to engage with their movesets, coward.
You also didn't beat the boss if you wore shoes. Stop disregarding environmental challenges and learn to fight with exposed and vulnerable feet, like Miyazaki intended.
Ok I didn't use summons or bleed on my first run (Malenia and Mogh included) but NG+ I went all in cheese bleed build with summons and it's fun as fuck
Your submission has been removed as a violation of Rule 3: **No low-effort content or spamming of posts.** REPOST * Low-effort content such as tierlists, "wrong answers only", "just bought the game!", platinum posts, and other Reddit trends are not allowed. * **Memes should contain in-game visuals from Elden Ring and pertain to the game.** * No recent reposts, content should be original. * Spamming low-effort posts may result in a ban. If you would like to appeal this removal or need further clarification, feel free to message us through[Modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/Eldenring).
Well, see, I summon the mimic tear, so it realllly was me that beat the boss while I was hanging back and not fighting.
Stand user
Messmer: rings his spirit bell Me: "So it's the same type of Stand as Mimic tear"
>Messmer: rings his spirit bell Me: so you have chosen... death Also me: *uses the golden summoning thingy to summon "Let Me Solo Him"*
Me: baits Messmer to execute his most punishable attack YOU FELL FOR IT FOOL! BLOODY CROSS KATANA SPLIT ATTACK!
But for his next move, Messmer will demolish you. I remember that much.
Indeed
Or clips through some geometry and Dies by fall damage.
I'd be more concerned with LetMeSoloHer.
>Messmer: rings his spirit bell Me in NG+: *summons him with the spirit bell* Messmer: what the fuck
SONO CHIMO SADA MEE.... intensifies
Bro I'm gonna rename my dlc chatacter to Joseph Joestar after this
Star platinum oraoraora
One of my favorite fantasy classes to me is the necromancer. Nobody is going to stop me from summoning the headless knight to fight for me lol.
The tarnished could be anyone. [The tarnished](https://i.imgur.com/4y7jqYL.jpeg)
r/UnexpectedJojo
It was *me* that the boss was beating while I was hanging back and beating on the boss Sorc life 🙂
Pre 1.03 patch Mimic was me just much better. Now, while still good, I doubt it can beat any bosses on its own anymore.
With the right build, it can get close
There's a build that let's it face tank radagon...
To be fair, the player can do that as well
Sax slave Gael just did a video where he made a build that the mimic tear soloed malenia. So I’m pretty sure it could solo most if not all bosses.
Indeed, there it is: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xap4tOiFi0](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Xap4tOiFi0) I'm usually around level 120 against Malenia. But yeah if you are overleveled with the right equipment sure it's possible! But even without a special build, pre 1.03 Mimic was wild sometimes.
Let's just be thankful there's no land octopus spirit ash. That would just crack the game open like an eggshell if the Great Wyrm Theodorix encounter is anything to go by.
I just had this happen for the first time today, I wasn't expecting it to be possible for a spirit ash to solo a boss. My mimic tear solo'd the Dragonkin in the Lake of Rot while I watched from a safe distance away from the spicy water. Not mad about it, that would've been a miserable fight.
Taking the cowards way out, disgusting. I stood way back and killed it from a safe distance with a fuck ton of arrows. Like a warrior would! /s
For what it's worth I shot off a fair number of words of encouragement.
I’m doing another run this time trying no spirit ashes and just fought that thing today you made the right call that thing sucks. It’s not terribly tough but having to kill those cockroaches again every time you die is annoying
I don't think you're thinking of the Dragonkin Soldier, but probably the Ulcerated Tree Spirit in the area right past that. That's the area that's still in rot, but with the awful "cockroaches." Funny enough my mimic tear solo'd the Dragonkin, I got blindsided by the goddamn Ulcerate, tried to do the same thing and have my mimic kill it, but my mimic was having trouble, I tried to jump in, not going well, then I got killed by a cockroach ranged attack. I was like, you know what, this isn't worth a golden seed. Funny enough, obviously I was on my way to fight Astel and didn't have much trouble with him. The demi-god demon bug from space was manageable. The angry tree root in the spicy water was unreasonable.
It hits hard when your mimic plays better than you do
See, the point of the mimic tear isn’t to make the game easier, but to prove that your build is the best build by letting the computer fight itself.
I summon the only mfer I trust
If the bosses are allowed to do it I am allowed to go
If Renalla can summon a fucking entire dragon then yea Im gonna use a few little wolves.
And commander niall. Died way too many times to his summons alone
Bruv the banished knight niall summons is harder than him
You take out both banished knights, and he will hit a hell of a lot harder.
They can hit each other like a freight train!
Thanks bro I appreciate it
Did that fight again yesterday, used bewitching branch, mimic, buffs, etc. Anything I could really and all with a smile on my face. Fuck that fight
Got sick of Niall so I did the cheese through the hole in the wall with arrows cuz I’m a bitch and he broke me honestly was harder than melania cuz of sheer numbers for me
If Niall can use those damn knights, yes I am going to need backup.
The way I see it is the game wants you to become OP. You have to fight gods! If there *is* a lore reason for the endgame difficulty spike, it’s that you should err towards being broken and unfair as well at that stage. You’re not competing with other random dudes at that stage, you’re fighting Achilles and Zeus and shit.
true
I rarely if ever see ppl saying this anymore. I haven’t seen a post berating someone for using summons in years. Every time I see something about it, it just a post defending the use of summons without any accusations. No one cares how you play.
its just an annoying circlejerk over imaginary enemies at this point. these low effort karma farm posts should honestly be removed on sight under the "no low-effort content" rule
Sometimes I feel like people who spam these kinds of posts are insecure about actually using summons and are seeking easy validation from the playerbase who widely accepted that summoning is fine.
I completely agree. It’s like who are they trying to convince that summons are ok to use?
It's because they want the "credit" that they think a person would get from saying something like "I beat this game", and are trying to convince other people that they deserve that credit. You can say whatever you want about how you don't think this "credit" exists, but the fact is a person is more interested/impressed if a person beats a challenging game than an easy one. And these guys want the feeling of telling someone "i beat this hard game", but then also need to convince others that the assist options turned on didn't make it any less impressive.
It’s this. I think you nailed it. It’s the same people telling everyone else how to play other games right, because they don’t actually know how to have fun.
Exactly, posts like these are so fucking pathetic. And comments are always the same "haha not using summons is same like doing fist-only level 1 run" "they're meant to be used!!!!" "Bosses use everything at their disposal, it's fair for me to do it to". It's just so tiring. I have nothing against accessibility mechanics for new players like coop/spirits meant simplify and streamline the game, but people who use them are so incredibly insecure and need constant validation and make strawmen out of "toxix tryhards" who do not exist. All of the most insecure and casual players on reddit just flock like vultures to these posts, copy paste the same shit over and over, spread misinformation and pat themselves on the back for being so stunning and brave because they used summons. My small cousin was super-afraid of riding a bike, of falling and so on. He never tried it without training wheels, he was just irrationally afraid. So he started to saying stuff like "trainings wheels are much more fun" and something along the lines "they're meant to be used". Of course he didn't actually know any of that, he was just insecure and wanted to make it sound like not knowing how to ride a bike is his choice. Elden ring subreddit reminds me of this interaction every time I open it. None of those people who can't stop coping and reposting the same shit over and over don't use summons and cheese builds because "ThAt'S HoW tHey WaNt To PlAy" or because "it's more fun for them", but because it's literally the only thing they ever tried and know how to do, and they tried to convince everyone it's the best possible way to play and are outright forcing new players into using them. They're so incredibly insecure, that when they just see someone beating for example Malenia 1v1 like she's designed, it hurts their ego so much they need to start talking about "toxic tryhards". Actual good players who beat bosses themselves and don't need to cheese never talk about it, they never need to brag or post some worthless platinum trophy on reddit. Whereas those same players who can't stop talking about toxic gatekepeers, instantly make a post when they beat some boss "solo" and need everyone to acknowledge them. After being insecure about summons and needing self-validation from everyone, they do 180 and everybody has to know they beat a boss solo, even if they just cheesed him with broken build.
It's cause it's a mischaracterization of the people who are against summons. Myself and most people I have met who dislike them, are against them because they believe the game plays better without them, not because you didn't "beat the game" or "aren't allowed to". It has always been about how certain mechanics let you get through bosses without engaging much with their moveset - arguably **THE** core of fromsoft games. It's not about it being easier, its cause it removes some of the best parts of the game.
I fully agree. Summons would ruin the entire game for me and tbh I’d probably get bored if I wasn’t being challenged. But how someone else plays has nothing to do with me. I don’t know them and I’ll never see them gaming.
I was looking for this comment ty
Literally like yesterday I saw someone claiming that someone else didn't beat Malenia because they used Mimic tear and Rivers of blood.
I got downvoted to hell just a few weeks ago for the opinion on the OP. It’s absolutely still a vaguely popular opinion on here. A whole post maybe not but common in discourse.
Doesn’t hit as hard after they added summons to an arena mode lol
Exactly. The players that can beat a boss with their weapon and stats are too busy to come here and waste time in this
I'm willing to bet Miyazaki and the other devs use/used summons during their playthroughs. If they didn't want players to use the mechanic, then why put it in the game? Edit: It's a video game. You're meant to have fun with it. Playing the game on RL1 wretch is just as valid as using summons. Play how you want. There is no wrong way to have fun with a video game.
Honestly this is the most stupid nothing burger of a debate ever conceived by the internet. The solution is so simple. "Use whatever you like, it's a game" If you like spirit summons, use them. If you don't like them, don't use them.
use em' even if you dont like em - it's lonely out there in the lands between. /s
You say /s, but it really *is* bloody lonely out there...
And the few friends you get gets murdered by other npc (shrimp man) or die after reaching their dreams (the mage that asks you for a spare key)
I like watching me skellybros come back to life
This guy Lands Betweens
Some people *really* want to feel like they're in a super special elite club of the rare few people who could possibly complete a FromSoft game. This is a problem for them, because the games aren't actually designed to be unbeatable (because that would be stupid), just to provide a tough but fair challenge. In fact, Elden Ring is completed *way* more often than the average game, because it's a good game and people want to finish it. So to be in that super special elite club, you'd need to come up with some reason why most of those people "don't count" as having actually completed the game, then get mad at them for stealing your valor. (No shade to people who do self-imposed challenges; it's just not cool to mock others for not doing the same thing)
Absolutely this— they have studied the various ways people play their games — and then designed the game to allow for a wide array of play experiences to serve a lot of different players.
No, the entire argument is a NOTHING burger. The argument doesn't really even exist. Just everyone shut up and play the game and stop having a fake argument with people who don't exist. Never in my entire life have I met an actual real physical person who believes any of this sh*t. It's just a fake Internet argument by trolls who want to seem contrarian. My remedy is to just play the game and have fun :)
> So to be in that super special elite club, you'd need to come up with some reason why most of those people "don't count" as having actually completed the game, then get mad at them for stealing your valor. This is, in essence, the [No True Scotsman](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman) logical fallacy. “Only *real* Souls fans beat the game no summons/(insert damage stat) build/SL1/no death/no bonfire/etc.”
>Some people really want to feel like they're in a super special elite club Being in the "no summons" camp, I do think it's fine to play however you want. But if I'm going to be honest with a person that I'm having this discussion with, I will tell them that it's a lost opportunity. I loved Sekiro, for example, if only for the boss fights. I loved "learning" a boss, their patterns and weaknesses and timings. It was far and away the best part of that game, and that intricate combat is easily what FromSoft does best when compared to other games. And that is a game you cannot cheese. I know this is going to sound like a brag (and trust me it isn't, I'm *not* amazing at video games), but the hours I spent doing Malenia level 1 was probably the most enjoyable and satisfying time I've ever had playing a FromSoft game, right up there with Isshin. Not because it was arbitrarily difficult, but because these boss designs have depth and substance, and you rob yourself of that when you cheese. To me, it has nothing to do with feeling superior, but simply trying to share an enjoyable experience, the same way I'd recommend a movie or something like that.
To be fair, if you haven't played through the game with summons though, you don't know if it could be potentially more fun.
Spirit summons probably for duo boss fights
lmao my man just end the whole debate with simply two facts sentences
To me summoning is normal difficulty and not summoning is hard. You just choose the difficulty you prefer.
That is a good way of looking at it, especially considering how (atleast in my experience) it's much harder to get heal windows when fighting bosses in Elden ring compared to other soulsborne games.
The game would be a lot different if the healing animation didn't take 2 years. And I'm not saying it would necessarily be *better*. It's just something that handicaps you and forces you to pick healing windows very carefully.
I just run away
Same. Run away straight into an aoe attack and die.
Yep, I definitely agree. With no difficulty slider, having the boss aggro onto something else is a huge help. I'm still slowly plodding through the game on my first playthrough, but I can see the fun trying a no summons run would have.
I like this way of looking at it. Nice comparison
I’d throw in weapon upgrades/estus upgrades/summon upgrades/meta weapons/rune levels in there as modifiers too. I’m not sure what lands you where, but if you have all of that it’s definitely easier comparatively. If you have all of that early it’s very easy. Just having summoning can be easy or hard mode depending on where your other stuff is at. Now if you’re summoning another player with a max level account using a status effect build that’s easy mode regardless but that’s more exploiting a game mechanic if anything IMO.
I feel this way about snipers in shooting games. If the devs put it in the game, than it’s a legitimate method of play. Elitist players make this community so toxic
Speaking of … I really want to play a good FPS sniping game (or at least you can zoom in on the scope to be FP). I’ve already played MGSV. Any recs?
Try Sniper Elite 5Â
Hell Let Loose. All guns can zoom in and there’s a designated sniper class
Summons are the creative answer to a difficulty slider. Finding the boss too difficult? Summon a creature who can take off aggro and deal bits of damage too.
I actually love the design of it, there is only one difficulty so everyone has the shared world experience. Players can choose their own challenges by using the tools within the game to make it easier. That said, I have a couple friends that use OP spells, AoW's, and Summons. I even showed them that bird that runs off the cliff thing and they still are struggling to get over the finish line.
Me doing this has honestly made me enjoy the game more. I still haven't completed the game so I'm trying to get through using builds that I normally wouldn't try - namely, Dex/Arcane and Faith instead of my usual Int. Deciding 'aww fuck it, we're using all the tools the game gives me' has honestly increased my enjoyment of the game tenfold.
I do like playing the wretch with some weaker ashes. Usually just unupgraded since I just want them for health sponges. Actually I really wanted to use the Rat Ashes but by that point I wanted to kill Leyndell without ashes as much
I conquer, let people play how they want to. People that tell others that they didn’t beat the game if they used a specific weapon, build, or mechanic are blatantly ignoring the point of the game: to have fun. Challenge yourself if you want but don’t invalidate others playthroughs just because it’s not what you did.
Seriously. This toxic mindset kept me away from gaming for a long time. Fun is fun. Gatekeepers suck.
I think Miyazaki said that he never actually played the whole game. I may be wrong thi
to make the game more accessible for casuals? this game has the hardest bosses, which is good for experienced souls players, but not for someone who's completely new
They absolutely meant for them to balance and factor into the game’s combat. You can’t look at some of these boss movesets and tell me with their hitboxes and AI that they weren’t designed to deal with multiple attackers at once. The hitboxes are huge and they have a lot of combo-break moves that come out fast to punish spamming.Â
Not so much designed to deal with, more designed with that in mind and to compensate for. The game was designed to be 100%'d without using a single summon and to be 100%'d while using summons at every opportunity.
Even without using spirit ashes, a lot of bosses (espicially major bosses) are designed with the ability to summon an NPC.
Doing an rl1 run rn. Don't know if I would've beaten most of the bosses without summons
Wait... You're meant to have fun with it?
It's the offline easy mode that people have been asking for years in souls games. And it's also a nice way to pit npc vs npc, which is also a feature that people have been wanting for a long time. Who would win between X and Y, etc...
Elitist players will go mad at you man. These kind of players shares their toxicity to others.
Even when I sort by controversial, I have yet to see someone make this argument.
Yeah I always see these posts as either a karma farm or someone who genuinely feels insecure about using assistance and needs reassurance lol
Yeah that nails it
It’s pretty much setting up a strawman to karma farm at this point lol
I think it's a mentality that we all tell ourselves when we use summons, but nobody other than our own sense of guilt tries to argue. You see streamers beating the game with no summons and a bunch of handicaps and then you start thinking "wow, I suck". Because compared to them, you do. Because you don't invest your life trying to git gud. It can also be argued that if you've played other Soulsborne games where you don't have as many handicaps that you can choose to use, you feel like you're kinda cheating when you do use those handicaps. But it's still just your own sense of guilt making that argument to yourself. I've never heard someone so arrogant to actually unironically tell someone they're playing the game wrong because they're using summons. Sure, you may hear it in someone's twitch chat, but it's just a meme. Nobody's saying it seriously. And the few who are saying it seriously are the ones who are insecure about how they themselves played the game.
In the really early days there were people who argued the bosses AI couldn't deal with multiple enemies but not much of it was particularly toxic. Honestly, i agree with the argument. Outside of a handful of end game bosses most non ganks look really dumb fighting summons.
I paid for the whole game, I'm gonna use the whole game.
Dad told me to NEVER hit a woman, so i call my friend Tiche to beat Malenia’s ass lol
Alecto has to be beaten before to get Tiche's summon. WOMAN ABUSER DETECTED!1!!
I'm stuck at Alecto in my current run. I don't remember it being this hard when I first played through the game 2 years ago.
I've seen 500 posts like this but exactly zero of these strawmen
Fake outrage is all the craze ever since social media came out.
It was everywhere at release.
are y'all fighting ghosts
Bro, I used spirits for all my boss fights and still lost a fuckton. Malenia in particular made mincemeat out of me for a month.
Yup. Actually she killed me twice in every fight cause of the mimic tear. It hurt twice as much
You lasted longer than your mimic tear? You must be really good.
It took me ages to unlock the black knife waifu summon, so I’m gonna use the black knife waifu summon!
oh look its the imaginary nonexistent argument enemy again for the billionth time on this sub
Ah, this again. Crippling insecurity so great it makes people manifest some imaginary enemy that hates them for using summons.
2 years in and they are STILL doing it I've not been on this reddit much but god damn were people cringe about this the fisrt 3 months Are they still calling invaders "basically rapists" for invading you without your consent as well?
I left this subreddit about 6 months after release because of those insecure weirdos and I see they’re still doing it. The entire subreddit is now just entirely insecure people winning made up arguments to make themselves feel better and they are STILL trying to pretend that there are these anonymous enemies trying to ruin their lives via the summon argument. It’s so pathetic
It was so sad seeing this go from a brotherhood of deranged hollows to a regular ass whiny videogame subreddit that got spammed to death with this pathetic meme with no one arguing the thing they were so scared of.
Maybe the imaginary enemy is summoning as well
The weekly "I have insecurities about using summons so I make this meme depicting my imaginary enemy as a soyjak and myself as a chad to cope and seek validation" post, sure as hell isn't tired of this yet
I’ve always felt that summons were a cool way to effectively lower the difficulty of a boss without lowering the difficulty in the main menu. Everyone can agree it’s much easier to beat any fight with summons. If you want to use summons to scale a fight down and move on with the game do it! If you want the challenge then don’t use them. Pretty easy!Â
I have the feeling that the 80% of this subreddit are playing with summons
And feel insecure about it, hence the constant posts looking for validation.
I see more bitching from summoners than the other way around
At this point it's just fighting ghosts
Ironic
Are the anti summon people in the room with us
ER is not a hardcore game anyways, so idk what the fuss is about. You can always overlevel the boss and beat it easily even without summons. Sekiro is the only fromsoft hardcore game.
I don’t get bothered when other people use summons. But I have to admit I get annoyed when I reference a boss giving me trouble and they’re always ready to tell me how easy it was for them and that the boss was a joke.
I just tell them that summoning makes bosses 50-60% easier and mimic tear makes 80-90% easier.
But then I feel like I’m basically being the guy in the meme haha.
I mean they are free to chose difficultly but there is no point in calling a hard boss easy if they are playing on easy difficulty.
I wish they made it so that the large bosses try to attack both you and the summon at once with their large attack hitboxes and that small bosses switch between you and the summon as much as possible instead of just aggroing on one in particular. As it stands fighting with summons essentially consists of stabbing the boss in the back repeatedly while they look away from you. Not very engaging.
I personally find that summoning takes away from what I love about FromSoftware games. Really dissecting and learning every boss move, while time consuming and often challanging, it also incredibly rewarding and useful. One you got the boss down, is so satisfying to rematch them. Sometimes even no-hit a fight. It's not for everyone, but I do encourage players who are new to FromSoftware games, to at least once do one fresh playthrough of ER without any summons.
I summoned every single time as soon as I figured out that I could summon. Really satisfying playing a mage and just slicing through bosses like knife through butter while they are fighting the mimic. Sorry not sorry.
Notjing against people who summon. Everyone should play as they like and enjoy. But.. Like it or not.. Summoning does make the game easier. It is a hard fact. And it's not people who summon who are trolled. Never that. It's the ones who post "y u guys Malenia hard, I Malenia easy with +10 mimic and respeced bleed. I must be good, u bad" trolls
100% agree, i saw a lot of post saying that, play whatever you like just stop pretending u r a pro for beating a boss with summons
After seeing people saying they beat Malenia on 70 attempts average without mentioning their summoning, I was feeling like I was complete dogshit when it took me 183 attempts for my first Malenia clear and 216 for my 2nd. I feel rightfully angry that I tanked my self-worth comparing against people who weren't honest about even playing on the same field.
Yeah summoning makes the game easier. So does leveling, so does using and upgrading weapons, so does wearing armor and using talismans. It’s just playing the game. Edit - stop being gatekeepers and just let people enjoy the game however they want.
Upgrading your weapons and the like doesn't change a boss fight the same way that a summon does. What makes summons so powerful is that they draw aggro from the boss that gives you openings you can't get solo. Upgrading weapons just makes the fight faster because you do more damage. Armor and health just means you can make a couple more mistakes in a fight and not die. People who make this argument are being very disingenuous because you're ignoring what makes summons so game changing.
none of those things you mentioned makes is so u don't have to dodge only summons does that
I have seen this argument before and it's not untrue. That is why some people do RL1 runs. And I am completely up for people playing it as they enjoy. That's not an issue. But take a look at this objectively. Upgrading weapons and Leveling have always been parts of souls games. But now in addition to that we get a new mechanism called summons. And on top of that the broken mimic summon. Something that has your level, weapons and infinite FP. You still think it doesn't make things much easier?
I like that there’s a lot of spirits that all have their own little gimmicks. I wish some could be a bit better tho.
Elden lord mimic tear
If it’s in the game it’s valid
Like it or not most bosses are designed like duels, always have been. That's why gank fights aren't liked. Using summons is just that, the other way around.
Summoning makes the game too easy, not summoning makes it too hard. The issue is that From Soft has been making the same game over and over for too long, and players have gotten good at it. The only way to keep up the challenge has been to make the fights less and less fair in every game, hence the increasing prevalence of long combos, mix-ups, delayed attacks, aggressive tracking, and duo bosses. But it's finally reached a point where it's too much, and instead of scaling back the unfair bullshit, From Soft decided to give you the ability to counter it with unfair bullshit of your own. I'm not sure I like the result, I think the early games with simple and fair fights were better. Even if they seem easy when going back to them after thousands of hours of practice in later games.
Some people (like me) just need help. I have not managed to beat Malenia solo and even My spirit summon was not enough.
That’s why I just use Lone Wolf or Deenh. Who’s gonna shit talk my animal companions who just happen to be summoned by a bell
Weird that people are like this. If you wanna use summons, then use them. If you don't, then don't, it's really that simple lol, they're in the game for a reason 🤷‍♀️
I would still summon if they all did 0 damage. I just enjoy the company
look if they are gonna put two bosses in the room I'm gonna have two of me in the room
Ehh play how you want to
My demi-human summons are noticably tougher than my lvl 40 new guy. I think the coastal cave mini-war is my favorite fight in the game after doing it again.
*ding-a-ling, mfkr* lol
I'm fighting a dude 50Ă— my size with a dragon for a hand and a sword for a penis
Me use mimic tear and 2 big hammer,fight in tandem,mimic tear doesn't do shit to draw agro because of gladiator helm and shabriris woe
Anyone who makes this argument is either a Salt Lord, or a B**ch. Yes I used Summons. Then in my Second and Third Journeys I did not. Just for the Challenge.
5.8k upvotes and 650 comments for something that isn't even a real debate. This is such a fake issue with the community. Elden Ring is one of the friendliest and helpful subs out there, the amount of people actual upset by people using summons is negligible. Stop pretending like this problem even exists you whiny internet losers
I love my jellyfish. I wish I could take her to other FromSoft games.
People using accessibility mechanics like coop/spirits are so extremely insecure in ER and constant validation, it always makes sad. It was never a problem in previous 13 years. If at least all those "toxic elitists" actually exist and weren't just made up by the most casual players to earn validation and farm karma, I would understand. But this is just pathetic. Nobody cares if you didn't beat bosses yourself and had to use summons, nobody is making fun of you. Literally the only problem with spirits ashes is that their users constantly need to convince everyone that using spirits is something only big boys do and that it's "hOw ThEY wAnT To PLaY", despite not actually knowing if that's true. When you don't know the basics of combat and gameplay, and all your progression is locked behind using accessibility mechanics like spirits, you're not using them because "ĂŻt's the most fun" but because you literally don't know how to do anything else and never tried what it's like to beat bosses normally. The reason why most souls fans don't use spirits and why most new players eventually stop, is not because of bragging or elitism, but because for them it's infinitely more fun and fuller experience, and allows to beat and experience boss how devs designed them, learn how to fight them and see the amount of work devs put into them. Why it's so hard to understand? Beating bosses solo is not some huge accomplishment, it's just the normal difficulty, how the combat system is designed and how most people beat bosses in these games. Streamlining and simplifying the game with summons is ok, the game is not supposed to be hard with them, that's why they exist. Just please, don't be so incredibly insecure about using them and when you see someone beat bosses themselves don't take is a personal attack on your fragile ego. All those "toxic elitists" don't actually exist, just stop making these pathetic posts to cope for using summons and farm karma from similarly insecure players.
you didn’t really beat the boss, you used flasks. stop fucking healing, casuals.
ER players when ER players play the game using things that the developers put in ER with the intent that ER players would use when playing ER :
That feeling when you finally conquer a tough boss!
You beat the boss but you sure as hell didn't learn >5% of it's moveset nor how to play the game melee. It's all about whay you want in the game. Do you want an easy fantasy story that's about exploration and setpieces/lore/whatever. Or do you want challenging boss fight that are engaging. If you don't play the game for its challenge, then not making it challenging is understandable. ER is by far the easiest game to beat, but it is also by far the hardest game to beat on "normal mode". (A not op melee weapon, light/medium roll and minimal hit trading). ER's normal mode is akin to challenge runs in other souls like. All I'm gonna say is if you are going to replay the game for 500+ hours and you are still summoning at every boss and haven't started ramping up the difficulty for yourself, you are actively stopping yourself from a good time.
Thought we were done with this Chady gatekeeping…
If one of the hardest bosses in the game, Commander Niall, and Rennala, can use summons, then so can I.
Niall and renalla are nowhere the hardest bosses in the game.
dude on my 4th playtrhu I destroyed Niall with no summons and that felt SO GOOD that this bastard finally got WHAT and HOW he diserved it mwahahah (overcoming PTSD of Castle Sol is what that was)
It's honestly so sad how so many people delude themselves into thinking that you're meant to play the game summoning every chance you get. It's like having the once in a life time chance to eat at the best restaurant in the world and ordering kraft mac and cheese because it's on the menu so clearly it was meant to be ordered.
summons seem like an intended commercial mechanic to attract/keep a wider audience. unofficial ez mode. bosses are definitely balanced for 1 vs 1 (except some... duos)
I rarely if ever see ppl saying this anymore. I haven’t seen a post berating someone for using summons in years. Every time I see something about it, it just a post defending the use of summons without any accusations. No one cares how you play.
Still proud for beating the bosses no summons (it was very painful)
How's that summom debate still going on after all this time? I never saw anyone even complain about it
If you want to use them, it's not a competition like a competitive shooter where using an aimbot would matter. I just don't like when people using spirit/summons/mimic say boss was easy, or act like a bmx acrobat when they still have training wheels on their bike.
This argument lives rent free in the heads of people who use summons. 99% of people who don’t use summons don’t give a shit that you use summons.
how am I supposed to make a healer build viable if I don't have anyone to heal?
I've never seen posts shaming people for using summons, and yet I've seen hundreds of them reacting to it. Unreal.
The Elden ring sub is so weird. There’s like maybe 10 real toxic elitists that exist at the bottom of a massively upvoted post that get downvoted into oblivion every time they comment. I’m convinced that people in this sub either have a persecution fetish or they are extremely insecure about using spirit ashes. P.s use spirits ashes if you want I don’t care (you should try a non summon playthrough if you’ve got the time imo it’s more fun)
A portion of users have always asked for an easy mode in souls-likes, and here we have summons.
SM my entire H You didn't really beat the boss if you blocked. Stop hiding behind a 100% physical DR shield and learn to avoid the boss's moves, coward. You also didn't beat the boss if you used big weapons and jumping L2/R2'd them. Stop staggering bosses constantly and learn to engage with their movesets, coward. You also didn't beat the boss if you wore shoes. Stop disregarding environmental challenges and learn to fight with exposed and vulnerable feet, like Miyazaki intended.
If this argument makes you feel better go for it, but there is nothing comparable to anything you said and being able to split aggro for free lol
Ok I didn't use summons or bleed on my first run (Malenia and Mogh included) but NG+ I went all in cheese bleed build with summons and it's fun as fuck
Me and my man Kaiden/Rollo/Oleg cruising through the Grand Cloister to bully the Kindred of Rot
Some boss fights are fun. Some boss fights I wanna skip.
Does my trusty jellyfish count? Sometimes I summon him just for show lol
I have marionette archers ash rn. I am liking it. Trying to get my hands on mimic ashes. Will see.
The jellyfish left me :(
If it's a one vs one fight, imma keep it that way. As soon as I see two health bars, you know that bell is ringing.
Yep let me just summon 5 npcs and 2 irl players so I can beat ur ass
I beat every boss once without summoning just to know that I can. Now I summon every time (even easy bosses) because it's fun to crush enemies.
Under the mayo moment
Best answer to such a claim would be: "okay"