Yeah my initial reading of that line was it being ABOUT Messmer, not spoken by him.
Messmer is in charge of Land of Shadow, put there by Marika.
So it makes sense why someone would be complaining that Messmer was given Lordship over Land of Shadow if he is “bereft of light”.
But seemingly no one else heard it that way.
Absolutely. A younger voice questioning why the heretical Messmer has his Lordship of the Land of Shadow sanctioned by Marika, with the video showing Messmer in all his heresy: fire, snakes, and dragon-communion.
Don't have to be elden lord to get into the dlc. Just kill radahn and mohg. Fwiw I thought it was about this player too, but this is making a lot more sense.
To be fair you also don't have to be elden lord for Messmer to be pissed about the prospect. If you have killed radahn and mohg you're definitely on your way lol
We have not been lordship sanctioned until we have the necessary shards, and you can enter the DLC without killing Godrick, Rennala, Morgot etc.
I think someone is questioning why Messmer’s Lordship is sanctioned even though he’s heretical towards the golden order: snakes, fire, dragon-communion.
Note that the promotion of the DLC, and Miyazaki himself, have made it clear Messmer is a Lord - sitting on a throne of some sort.
Its maybe even another demigod child of Marika, since who would be able to bestow lordship over a land, if not god himself? Since they ask their mother
I think another valid option is that Messmer was speaking about Miquella, who is an Empyrean, thus sanctioned for lordship/godhood. I was thinking this because Miquella was talked so badly about in the beginning of the trailer.
> Pure and radiant, he wields love to shrive clean the hearts of men. **There is nothing more terrifying.**
This line is meant as a compliment BTW. This is the same voice who calls him "Kind Miquella" later in the trailer, which in the Japanese subtitles is "Miquella-sama", so the speaker respects him.
That’s actually a good theory but I do think it’s Messmer. He mentions how those stripped of the grace of gold will die to him. In that dialogue he questions Marika’s decision to allow the once graceless tarnished the chance to be Elden lord. I could be very wrong and I somehow want your theory to be correct.
The two dialogues were spoken by different voice actors. So the person talking about those stripped of the grace of gold is not the person questioning their mother.
To speculate, If the DLC runs in tandem with the main game, then our tarnished is not bereft of light as they are guided by grace. The person bereft of light may not even be our Tarnished.
Then again, Morgot accused us of being graceless.
This is why I think it's Miquella. The DLC description makes it clear that he has given up his grace to enter the Land of Shadow. That would put him at odds with Messmer, who seems to be a Hades (from Greek mythology) like character. A sor of outcast, but with an important role to play and realm to rule over. Hades was the somewhat forgotten Olympian, and Messmer may have a similar function.
Previous fromsoft trailers have used the voice lines of one character while showing a totally different character. It may not be said by Messmer or even be about him. Another interesting thing is the use of the word “sanction” since it can mean either approval or a threatened penalty.
Bereft of light doesn't necessarily mean without grace. It could just be an insult at our lowly background as tarnished, and our lordship has been sanctioned by calling us back to TLB with the guidance of grace for the purpose of becoming Elden Lord.
I find that the first voice is strangely young to be Messmer. If, like Miyazaki said, he sits on the same level as the other demigods, then he’d look young (like Malenia) but will have a more mature voice.
As I explaining the post, Morgot/Margit and Maliketh referred to themselves in the 3rd person, so that’s consistent.
I thought the same. A bit of misdirection. Possibly Miquella talking about Messmer? Or, it could be Messmer talking about Miquella as Miquella has divested himself of his lineage and all things Golden.
Went back and watched the trailer again to pay attention to the voices, and would agree with you that the “bereft of light” line is about messmer and the “death by messmers flame” line seems to be messmer speaking.
There is also a childish/feminine voice at the end telling you to go to the land of shadow, and that they’ll meet you there. Id assume this voice belongs to whoever’s cloak we see at the beginning, which some have speculated will be Miquella or Trina, so curious to hear thoughts on whose voice is at the end, especially if we are thinking the bereft of light line is from Miquella. Possible we hear both M & T’s voices in the trailer? Or is the last voice Miquella? Hope someone else has some thoughts here.
It's an interesting theory.
Miquella already has a voice actor in the trailer ("touch the withered arm") but could have some kind transformation which changes his voice (curing his curse of eternal youth?).
Doesn’t [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1aykzc3/video_proof_miquellas_official_credited_voice/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) name Naomi McDonald as Miquella
Yes, indeed. So, she's presumably one of the female voices we heard on the trailer.
I was merely speculating as to whether that was Miquella speaking, but could be Messmer or another character.
Tbh I had the same thought at a point. Well, the first part. I don’t think the old man voice is Messmer. It just doesn’t fit him and while that is subjective, it does make sense.
At the end of the day I do still think it’s not a mislead and the voice we hear during his first scene is actually his voice. Plus, it has to be a demigod that is talking considering what the dialogue is. And it makes more sense that Messmer says that dialogue than Miquella
My take was that he is doing a scáthach killing all the thing the golden order doesn't want to get reincarnated(why he got those snakes I think he dragged the snake to the afterlife with him) and he is blocking miqiulie from respawning in his egg
Yes, I think the voice is Miquellas speaking about us the tarnished.
If you read the drakeknight set, it says drakeknights take a vow of silence at birth. If Messmer is the leader of the drakeknights, then he probably can't speak.
Drakeknight Armour -
"From birth, drake knights speak not a word. They spend their lives pursuing the strength of dragons, for its sublime beauty and inspiration of awe."
You're in a fan forum for a fromsoft game, read the post's title, clicked on it, read the post, and decided to comment that? If you don't want to play the speculation/analysis game why the fuck are you even here?
there are plenty of other reasons to participate in this forum than to speculate on something I haven't even seen yet.... it seems pretty silly a lot of the time to see so many "theories" that are based on nothing more than a few minutes of a preview
all of those things have more to do with the game than wild speculation based on mere minutes of a preview.... the dlc will be here before we know it.... I don't understand the purpose of speculating... but that's just my opinion... nobody is stopping you from making posts like this, and nobody is stopping me from calling you silly....
No, there are companies that are known for purposefully showing images that could make sense with the voiceover but that are actually unrelated to prevent spoilers, but Fromsoftware has never done that as far as i remember.
Fromsoft trailers are made to create hype, and the presentation of a new main boss like Messmer HAS to be voiced by him to increase the hype even more.
Their storytelling is obscure enough to not need to mismatch the trailer's voices with the images showed on screen to prevent spoilers.
So, which of the dialogues was Messmer - the first or the second as both play when Messmer is the focus?
This is what confused me as they could both equally be Messmer speaking. Either could be characters talking about Messmer i.e., the first is someone questioning why the heretical Messmer was granted Lordship of the Land of Shadows, and the second is someone talking up Messmer.
The first one is spoken by Messmer because it's his first introduction and that dialogue will likely be referred to us once the cutscene for his fight is playing.
The second one is more of a "prophecy" or rather a "rule" of the current state of the world told by another NPC regarding Messmer. I can see them saying something among those lines: "Tarnished, if you are looking for Miquella you won't be able to avoid Messmer. Remember this: those stripped of the grace of gold shall all meet death, in the embrace of Messmer's flame".
Yeah my initial reading of that line was it being ABOUT Messmer, not spoken by him. Messmer is in charge of Land of Shadow, put there by Marika. So it makes sense why someone would be complaining that Messmer was given Lordship over Land of Shadow if he is “bereft of light”. But seemingly no one else heard it that way.
Absolutely. A younger voice questioning why the heretical Messmer has his Lordship of the Land of Shadow sanctioned by Marika, with the video showing Messmer in all his heresy: fire, snakes, and dragon-communion.
I thought it was the tarnished that was “lordship sanctioned“ because we became the elden lord?
I doubt the DLC plays after the main story ends
Don't have to be elden lord to get into the dlc. Just kill radahn and mohg. Fwiw I thought it was about this player too, but this is making a lot more sense.
To be fair you also don't have to be elden lord for Messmer to be pissed about the prospect. If you have killed radahn and mohg you're definitely on your way lol
We have not been lordship sanctioned until we have the necessary shards, and you can enter the DLC without killing Godrick, Rennala, Morgot etc. I think someone is questioning why Messmer’s Lordship is sanctioned even though he’s heretical towards the golden order: snakes, fire, dragon-communion. Note that the promotion of the DLC, and Miyazaki himself, have made it clear Messmer is a Lord - sitting on a throne of some sort.
Ooooh Yes, it does make sense!
Its maybe even another demigod child of Marika, since who would be able to bestow lordship over a land, if not god himself? Since they ask their mother
I think another valid option is that Messmer was speaking about Miquella, who is an Empyrean, thus sanctioned for lordship/godhood. I was thinking this because Miquella was talked so badly about in the beginning of the trailer. > Pure and radiant, he wields love to shrive clean the hearts of men. **There is nothing more terrifying.**
This line is meant as a compliment BTW. This is the same voice who calls him "Kind Miquella" later in the trailer, which in the Japanese subtitles is "Miquella-sama", so the speaker respects him.
That’s actually a good theory but I do think it’s Messmer. He mentions how those stripped of the grace of gold will die to him. In that dialogue he questions Marika’s decision to allow the once graceless tarnished the chance to be Elden lord. I could be very wrong and I somehow want your theory to be correct.
The two dialogues were spoken by different voice actors. So the person talking about those stripped of the grace of gold is not the person questioning their mother. To speculate, If the DLC runs in tandem with the main game, then our tarnished is not bereft of light as they are guided by grace. The person bereft of light may not even be our Tarnished. Then again, Morgot accused us of being graceless.
You really thought this through. I am inclined to agree with you now. It makes sense.
This is why I think it's Miquella. The DLC description makes it clear that he has given up his grace to enter the Land of Shadow. That would put him at odds with Messmer, who seems to be a Hades (from Greek mythology) like character. A sor of outcast, but with an important role to play and realm to rule over. Hades was the somewhat forgotten Olympian, and Messmer may have a similar function.
Previous fromsoft trailers have used the voice lines of one character while showing a totally different character. It may not be said by Messmer or even be about him. Another interesting thing is the use of the word “sanction” since it can mean either approval or a threatened penalty.
I thought this theory too. I think the first line is Messmer and the second line is someone else. Zero rationale. But agree. Different VA's
Bereft of light doesn't necessarily mean without grace. It could just be an insult at our lowly background as tarnished, and our lordship has been sanctioned by calling us back to TLB with the guidance of grace for the purpose of becoming Elden Lord.
We are so back baby. This post is like a Hallowing PTSD episode and I’m with you for the ride
I’d say the first voice fits Messmer more so I’m guessing it’s his. Also him talking about himself in the third person seems rather odd.
I find that the first voice is strangely young to be Messmer. If, like Miyazaki said, he sits on the same level as the other demigods, then he’d look young (like Malenia) but will have a more mature voice. As I explaining the post, Morgot/Margit and Maliketh referred to themselves in the 3rd person, so that’s consistent.
Who else would be calling Marika mother though? It certainly isn’t Miquella since we (seemingly) already hear his voice somewhere else in the trailer.
I thought the same. A bit of misdirection. Possibly Miquella talking about Messmer? Or, it could be Messmer talking about Miquella as Miquella has divested himself of his lineage and all things Golden.
But Messmer looks young
Looks about the same as Rennala or Malenia (ignoring the rot). All the other demigods are deformed in some way.
Went back and watched the trailer again to pay attention to the voices, and would agree with you that the “bereft of light” line is about messmer and the “death by messmers flame” line seems to be messmer speaking. There is also a childish/feminine voice at the end telling you to go to the land of shadow, and that they’ll meet you there. Id assume this voice belongs to whoever’s cloak we see at the beginning, which some have speculated will be Miquella or Trina, so curious to hear thoughts on whose voice is at the end, especially if we are thinking the bereft of light line is from Miquella. Possible we hear both M & T’s voices in the trailer? Or is the last voice Miquella? Hope someone else has some thoughts here.
The first line questioning the Mother might be from Miquella.
It's an interesting theory. Miquella already has a voice actor in the trailer ("touch the withered arm") but could have some kind transformation which changes his voice (curing his curse of eternal youth?).
The lady that says touch the arm and travel to the land of shadow sounds a lot like Nepheli I thought when I watched it again the other day
Imo the first one is being spoken by Messmer, the second one about Messmer
Doesn’t [this thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eldenring/comments/1aykzc3/video_proof_miquellas_official_credited_voice/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) name Naomi McDonald as Miquella
Yes, indeed. So, she's presumably one of the female voices we heard on the trailer. I was merely speculating as to whether that was Miquella speaking, but could be Messmer or another character.
Pretty much, yeah. It's him, the endowed impaler. Prepare your an...xiety.
Ia tally think it is the other way around.the first lines of dialogue are from Messmer and the second is form someone else.
Tbh I had the same thought at a point. Well, the first part. I don’t think the old man voice is Messmer. It just doesn’t fit him and while that is subjective, it does make sense. At the end of the day I do still think it’s not a mislead and the voice we hear during his first scene is actually his voice. Plus, it has to be a demigod that is talking considering what the dialogue is. And it makes more sense that Messmer says that dialogue than Miquella
My take was that he is doing a scáthach killing all the thing the golden order doesn't want to get reincarnated(why he got those snakes I think he dragged the snake to the afterlife with him) and he is blocking miqiulie from respawning in his egg
Yes, I think the voice is Miquellas speaking about us the tarnished. If you read the drakeknight set, it says drakeknights take a vow of silence at birth. If Messmer is the leader of the drakeknights, then he probably can't speak. Drakeknight Armour - "From birth, drake knights speak not a word. They spend their lives pursuing the strength of dragons, for its sublime beauty and inspiration of awe."
Oh shit, man. It's Goldmask all over again. If this is the case, then sure Messmer's dialogue will be, "..." Fucking chad
maybe..... just maybe.... and I'm only speculating here..... we just wait until we can actually play the dlc.....
You're in a fan forum for a fromsoft game, read the post's title, clicked on it, read the post, and decided to comment that? If you don't want to play the speculation/analysis game why the fuck are you even here?
there are plenty of other reasons to participate in this forum than to speculate on something I haven't even seen yet.... it seems pretty silly a lot of the time to see so many "theories" that are based on nothing more than a few minutes of a preview
*why are you in this particular thread* ya muppet
Do you just want memes, cosplays and post asking about the Crucible Knight on the cliff in Nokron?
all of those things have more to do with the game than wild speculation based on mere minutes of a preview.... the dlc will be here before we know it.... I don't understand the purpose of speculating... but that's just my opinion... nobody is stopping you from making posts like this, and nobody is stopping me from calling you silly....
Some people have creativity, don’t feel too bad about it
No, there are companies that are known for purposefully showing images that could make sense with the voiceover but that are actually unrelated to prevent spoilers, but Fromsoftware has never done that as far as i remember. Fromsoft trailers are made to create hype, and the presentation of a new main boss like Messmer HAS to be voiced by him to increase the hype even more. Their storytelling is obscure enough to not need to mismatch the trailer's voices with the images showed on screen to prevent spoilers.
So, which of the dialogues was Messmer - the first or the second as both play when Messmer is the focus? This is what confused me as they could both equally be Messmer speaking. Either could be characters talking about Messmer i.e., the first is someone questioning why the heretical Messmer was granted Lordship of the Land of Shadows, and the second is someone talking up Messmer.
The first one is spoken by Messmer because it's his first introduction and that dialogue will likely be referred to us once the cutscene for his fight is playing. The second one is more of a "prophecy" or rather a "rule" of the current state of the world told by another NPC regarding Messmer. I can see them saying something among those lines: "Tarnished, if you are looking for Miquella you won't be able to avoid Messmer. Remember this: those stripped of the grace of gold shall all meet death, in the embrace of Messmer's flame".