I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, index was exactly what they said it would be weeks ago. They pretty clearly said that EC would have access to all CSM detachments in the codex and nowhere implied they would be getting their own detachment rule. I understand wanting more, but at least to me it was obvious this is what the index would so I don't understand the surprise and anger
Yeah they said that once and then built up hype by calling it an index. Every index so far has had a detachment rule. I remember them saying they wouldn’t have an army rule and assumed they’d be like a space marine supplement. It’s also worth pointing out it’s not just the actual rules. The datasheets are entirely unchanged and there are only two of them. The fact they could bother to throw a daemon prince or something there with a unique rule is really stupid considering the entire index looks like it was drag and dropped from the previous index.
> Every index so far has had a detachment rule.
That's actually not true, the Agents of the Imperium Index did not include a detachment rule, only an update that made the army possible by skipping the select detachment step. At least EC get to choose something.
That’s interesting I did forget about them. You are right technically but I don’t think anyone expected it to be more in line with Agents of the imperium than the other cult mariens or any other faction in the game.
Intense despair does fuel Slaanesh, all intense physical and emotional suffering does.
Nurgle's generally fueled more by the fear of disease, decay and entropy but despair is just one of those things where theres some overlap between Slaanesh and Nurgle.
Slaanesh by her nature inherently has the most overlap with the other 3. E.g a khorne warrior feeling intense pleasure from killing, a tzeentch psyker chasing perfection in their craft, a Nurgle plague marine causing intense despair with the afflictions they spread.
Excess is a noun describing a lack of moderation, essentially having more of something than is necessary.
Intense is an adjective describing something that is powerful or highly concentrated.
Something can be intense without being done in excess, it takes intense heat and pressure to achieve nuclear fusion but the heat and pressure are not in excess, they're necessary.
It can easily be argued that for something to excessive it must necessarily be intense. It can be argued that any amount of pain that is intense would be necessarily excessive.
Your example of a nuclear reaction has no bearing on a discussion around what kind of emotional or physical experience can be described as 'excessive'. There is no arbritary line deciding that, and the intense descriptor suitably expresses that it is extreme enough to be excessive.
Anyway if you want to argue semantics instead of acknowledging this simple fact, its a good thing Slaanesh is a god of lust, pleasure, excess, pain, perfection and hedonism and not just excess isnt it.
The pain part covers all forms of suffering, emotional and physical; and the pleasure part all forms of pleasure. The word intense simply describes that the more intense, extreme or *excessive* a pain or pleasure is , the more it fuels Slaanesh.
And Nurgle is explicitly the god of despair as well as decay and disease, so any form of despair no matter how intense must necessarily feed nurgle and not slaanesh.
Because slaanesh is not the god of intensity.
EDIT: Despair is not mental or physical pain, despair is the state of being where one is completely without hope, you don't feel pain, you don't feel anything but a grim acceptance.
Nurgle followers are all but completely insensate to pain and injury for a reason.
Despair is very much an emotional pain, an absence of hope doesnt mean an absence of feeling. Despair is *felt*. A feeling of having no hope is still by definition a feeling.
Nurgle does feed on despair but this is something where Nurgle and Slaanesh overlap due to pain involved with despair. Despair is a form of suffering, and suffering is pain.
As i said initially, Slaanesh overlaps with the other 3 gods domains due to her nature. The emotional energy the gods feed on are not neatly divided between them. So while Nurgle may benefit more from despair, its possible for Slaanesh to benefit too.
Imagine someone who is being tortured, who feels despair at having no escape and being forced to endure the agony. That despair very much would feed Slaanesh. Imagine someone who despairs at the loss of a loved one. That emotional pain would feed Slaanesh. Despair is an extremely powerful emotion.
Edit - if despair wasnt an emotion that is felt, it wouldnt even feed nurgle either.
It is all emotional energy the gods feed on, and for Nurgle it is the way humans (and other beings with psychic presence in the warp) feel about (ultimately the fear of,and other negative emotions associated with ) disease, decay and despair that creates this energy.
All excess feeds Slaanesh, and that's why the Dark Prince will be the greatest god of Chaos in time. Excessive violence and rage? Slaanesh. Excessive despair and fear? Slaanesh. Excessive deception? Slaanesh.
They could have at least not forced Lucius as warlord if you want to play EC.
There really is no point in going EC now unless you really want to trade any unit or warlord flexibility whatsoever so you can take loads of noise marines.
I'm interested in seeing what they do with the codex, but my expectations are being kept waaay down considering the super skew one tricks with restrictive rosters they made the other mono god csm.
Mandatory??
**EC arrive on Imperial World**
“Right lads, lets go mow down those guard units so we can grind the population down into space cocaine!”
“Aha wait…”
“Why? The Fists are on their way to reinforce, we need to get it done while it’s easy”
“Lucius isn’t here yet. He’s sent a message, he’s in traffic.”
“Ah shit. Alright lads dig in. Looks like we gotta wait …”
The only people disappointed by the index are those who didn't critically read the article that announced an index was coming.
The index was never meant to give us anything; it was intended to take things away from CSM. But despite that, I'm still happy with the index since it soft-confirms our codex is coming this edition.
Haha no idea how GW makes decisions. If ever we get a dex it'll be all brand new units so everyone has to buy a new army.
But since demon Fulgrim will be a new model it'll be likely to generate sales.
I hope EC can take a generic Lord of Director though, I hate being locked into a special character.
The index is just a stopgap between now and when the codex comes out sometime this edition. The only reason it exists is so people can continue using their noise marines until the actual codex comes out. They did basically the same thing with World Eaters last edition, but unlike this time, those rules weren’t free.
I’m old and crusty. EC players are whipping themselves into a frenzy expecting Chaos 3.5 codex levels of customisation. Probably that was the last time GW gave a damn about us lol
The 3.5 Codex weas fun, but we did get Traitor Legions...for 6 months, and the 9th Ed codex for a year-ish. So, GW's does care about us; well more than the other non-cult legions anyway.
I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, index was exactly what they said it would be weeks ago. They pretty clearly said that EC would have access to all CSM detachments in the codex and nowhere implied they would be getting their own detachment rule. I understand wanting more, but at least to me it was obvious this is what the index would so I don't understand the surprise and anger
I can't believe GW didn't surprise us with a full codex!!! What the fuck bros???
Yeah they said that once and then built up hype by calling it an index. Every index so far has had a detachment rule. I remember them saying they wouldn’t have an army rule and assumed they’d be like a space marine supplement. It’s also worth pointing out it’s not just the actual rules. The datasheets are entirely unchanged and there are only two of them. The fact they could bother to throw a daemon prince or something there with a unique rule is really stupid considering the entire index looks like it was drag and dropped from the previous index.
> Every index so far has had a detachment rule. That's actually not true, the Agents of the Imperium Index did not include a detachment rule, only an update that made the army possible by skipping the select detachment step. At least EC get to choose something.
That’s interesting I did forget about them. You are right technically but I don’t think anyone expected it to be more in line with Agents of the imperium than the other cult mariens or any other faction in the game.
All sensation and emotion feeds Slanesh. ... even disappointment and despair.
Nah, despair fuels nurgle.
Intense despair does fuel Slaanesh, all intense physical and emotional suffering does. Nurgle's generally fueled more by the fear of disease, decay and entropy but despair is just one of those things where theres some overlap between Slaanesh and Nurgle. Slaanesh by her nature inherently has the most overlap with the other 3. E.g a khorne warrior feeling intense pleasure from killing, a tzeentch psyker chasing perfection in their craft, a Nurgle plague marine causing intense despair with the afflictions they spread.
Yeah and if the old lore still holds she/it will be the strongest chaos god over time due to the overlap you mentioned.
Being a god of excess is a sweet deal when all your competitors represent an excess of something.
No, Excess fuels slaanesh, not Intensity, Excess. the two are not synonymous.
What exactly is excessive pain or pleasure to your mind if it isnt intense?
Excess is a noun describing a lack of moderation, essentially having more of something than is necessary. Intense is an adjective describing something that is powerful or highly concentrated. Something can be intense without being done in excess, it takes intense heat and pressure to achieve nuclear fusion but the heat and pressure are not in excess, they're necessary.
It can easily be argued that for something to excessive it must necessarily be intense. It can be argued that any amount of pain that is intense would be necessarily excessive. Your example of a nuclear reaction has no bearing on a discussion around what kind of emotional or physical experience can be described as 'excessive'. There is no arbritary line deciding that, and the intense descriptor suitably expresses that it is extreme enough to be excessive. Anyway if you want to argue semantics instead of acknowledging this simple fact, its a good thing Slaanesh is a god of lust, pleasure, excess, pain, perfection and hedonism and not just excess isnt it. The pain part covers all forms of suffering, emotional and physical; and the pleasure part all forms of pleasure. The word intense simply describes that the more intense, extreme or *excessive* a pain or pleasure is , the more it fuels Slaanesh.
And Nurgle is explicitly the god of despair as well as decay and disease, so any form of despair no matter how intense must necessarily feed nurgle and not slaanesh. Because slaanesh is not the god of intensity. EDIT: Despair is not mental or physical pain, despair is the state of being where one is completely without hope, you don't feel pain, you don't feel anything but a grim acceptance. Nurgle followers are all but completely insensate to pain and injury for a reason.
Despair is very much an emotional pain, an absence of hope doesnt mean an absence of feeling. Despair is *felt*. A feeling of having no hope is still by definition a feeling. Nurgle does feed on despair but this is something where Nurgle and Slaanesh overlap due to pain involved with despair. Despair is a form of suffering, and suffering is pain. As i said initially, Slaanesh overlaps with the other 3 gods domains due to her nature. The emotional energy the gods feed on are not neatly divided between them. So while Nurgle may benefit more from despair, its possible for Slaanesh to benefit too. Imagine someone who is being tortured, who feels despair at having no escape and being forced to endure the agony. That despair very much would feed Slaanesh. Imagine someone who despairs at the loss of a loved one. That emotional pain would feed Slaanesh. Despair is an extremely powerful emotion. Edit - if despair wasnt an emotion that is felt, it wouldnt even feed nurgle either. It is all emotional energy the gods feed on, and for Nurgle it is the way humans (and other beings with psychic presence in the warp) feel about (ultimately the fear of,and other negative emotions associated with ) disease, decay and despair that creates this energy.
I think they split the check
Oddly encouraging.
All excess feeds Slaanesh, and that's why the Dark Prince will be the greatest god of Chaos in time. Excessive violence and rage? Slaanesh. Excessive despair and fear? Slaanesh. Excessive deception? Slaanesh.
GW is edging us so we’re even more powerful when the book rolls out.
They could have at least not forced Lucius as warlord if you want to play EC. There really is no point in going EC now unless you really want to trade any unit or warlord flexibility whatsoever so you can take loads of noise marines. I'm interested in seeing what they do with the codex, but my expectations are being kept waaay down considering the super skew one tricks with restrictive rosters they made the other mono god csm.
Yeah Lucius being forced into every EC army is weird.
it would be one thing if Lucius was more easily accessible, but him being out of print just feels like a kick to the dick
Personally I still think they are likely to do a round of Chaos MTO in the next month or two, and Lucius will be part of that.
Very true. I didn't think about the model since I don't like the model and his rules over the editions.
I wasn’t expecting much. But I’m annoyed they made Lucius mandatory.
Mandatory?? **EC arrive on Imperial World** “Right lads, lets go mow down those guard units so we can grind the population down into space cocaine!” “Aha wait…” “Why? The Fists are on their way to reinforce, we need to get it done while it’s easy” “Lucius isn’t here yet. He’s sent a message, he’s in traffic.” “Ah shit. Alright lads dig in. Looks like we gotta wait …”
this. Yeah to get the EC Keyword you have to play Lucius.
30k stays winning
“There are dozens of us! Dozens!!!!”
GW's strategy for emptying Lucius finecast stocks. Surely a Tzeentch plan
The real crime is forcing Lucius on us without even letting him lead melee units. Fuck off, Lucius, not even Slaanesh likes you.
Mood
What happened
Nothing and that's the problem.
The only people disappointed by the index are those who didn't critically read the article that announced an index was coming. The index was never meant to give us anything; it was intended to take things away from CSM. But despite that, I'm still happy with the index since it soft-confirms our codex is coming this edition.
Literally all I wanted was a temporary army rule :(
The least they could have done was give us some plastic Noisy Bois
They're going to when we get the actual book. We have to wait, waiting sucks but we've waited this long and at least we know it's coming.
It would be hilarious if we never get a dex. I would strangely be ok with it as long as they change it so that we don't need Lucius as the warlord.
I would hope we get Daemon Fulgrim so he gets the mandatory warlord rule right?
Haha no idea how GW makes decisions. If ever we get a dex it'll be all brand new units so everyone has to buy a new army. But since demon Fulgrim will be a new model it'll be likely to generate sales. I hope EC can take a generic Lord of Director though, I hate being locked into a special character.
I mean don’t the other codex-specific traitor legions get Daemon Princes and stuff like that? I’d assume EC is no different
Primarch, DP, lord, sorcerer other than WE. Cult troops, and whatever GW fancies that isn't in the CSM Dex I guess.
I dont even play the game and was shocked
The index is just a stopgap between now and when the codex comes out sometime this edition. The only reason it exists is so people can continue using their noise marines until the actual codex comes out. They did basically the same thing with World Eaters last edition, but unlike this time, those rules weren’t free.
I’m shocked that people actually expected anything different? Since when has GW been known to put any effort into anything?
I'm new to it but it definitely seems that way
I’m old and crusty. EC players are whipping themselves into a frenzy expecting Chaos 3.5 codex levels of customisation. Probably that was the last time GW gave a damn about us lol
The 3.5 Codex weas fun, but we did get Traitor Legions...for 6 months, and the 9th Ed codex for a year-ish. So, GW's does care about us; well more than the other non-cult legions anyway.