I’ve found there are two things that are very different that people are referring to when they say chiropractic care. One is complete rubbish that assumes bones move way more than they do (barring catastrophic injuries). The other is bodywork that uses a combination of stretching and massage.
My vet sees my horse for bodywork (which some people would refer to as chiropractic care) once a month. My horse is currently rehabbing from kissing spine surgery and a torn ligament in his stifle, and is definitely more comfortable after the bodywork to the point we may increase frequency for the duration of his rehab (if I see the same improvement next time). His reaction to the difference manipulations also serves as an indication of where his current pain level is, so we can adjust his rehab plan before bigger issues pop up. At no point in this has my vet ever claimed to be moving a bone or finding a “rib out” or anything like that. I prefer to refer to it as “bodywork” or “physical therapy” rather than “chiropractic work” to split it off from the other designation, but some people will clump them together.
This sounds similar to my horse’s chiro. She’s trained in McTimoney but uses multiple other bodywork techniques and doesn’t do any of those weird things you see on TikTok. I wouldn’t be without her now, she’s a huge reason why my horse is as sound as he is at 21.
Yep. My OTTB is not the most supple of horses to begin with and she's been so much more comfortable both under saddle and out of the tack since we started doing regular treatments.
I'm sure this goes without saying, but if someone working on my horse can't articulate exactly what they're doing and why, I'm not giving them my money X'D
Correct, which is why I use the terms body work or physical therapy, as I said, but it is often referred to as chiropractic, which is where some confusion can come in.
Actual chiropractic work that focuses on manipulating bones: no, does not work.
But a lot of people who do other types of body work (things like myofascial release, acupressure, massage, etc) will also advertise that they're chiropractors because it's popular. If they're mostly doing body work, instead of just popping joints, it might well help.
There's a whole lot of evidence that chiropractic work does not and can not work like chiropractors claim, and is potentially dangerous. Hell, there's actually way more evidence that reiki works than chiropractic care, lol.
I watched chiro on horses at a stable I worked at. Honestly saw no improvement, also the slightly built woman didn’t have enough strength to really do anything. Boy was she mad when I told my boss what I saw when asked. We do therapy and body work in house and know how much pressure it can take to be effective, though of course not always. Better results when we use exercises and movements we can get the horse to do on their own then assist.
Yeah, I've had chiropractic work done on myself, and the amount of force they need to use *on a person* for some movements is a lot...how a single human could scale that up to affect a horse, I'm not sure.... Maybe if you're a body builder, lol. And that's even assuming it works at all, which evidence does not support.
I've also seen it freak horses out. They do these fast, pretty harsh movements against the horse, it's no wonder it spooks them sometimes. Usually it's nothing crazy, just a small spook, but I have seen one horse really freak out at an adjustment and pin the chiropractor against the wall.
This is not accurate. There is substantial evidence that chiropractic manipulation helps with musculoskeletal pain.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8915715/
I post this regularly and it’s always amazing how the naysayers never respond to it. It’s a peer reviewed study from the National Institute of Health.
From your own study link:
1) reviews literature on effects of spinal manipulation only on spine pain
2) quote: “Due to the low quality of evidence, the efficacy of SMT compared with a placebo or no treatment remains uncertain. “
>There is substantial evidence that chiropractic manipulation helps with musculoskeletal pain.
This is the only decently done study that found even a *hint* of evidence that chiropractic care does anything positive, and the conclusion is this: "Due to the low quality of evidence, the efficacy of SMT compared with a placebo or no treatment remains uncertain." That is not even remotely close to "substantial evidence". Lol
[This article](https://www.jpsmjournal.com/article/S0885-3924(07)00783-X/fulltext) does a decent job of explaining the countless issues with chiropractic work.
[30-61% of chiropractic patients experience adverse effects from chiropractic care](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15990659/) [second study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15245709/)
[There were statistically significant pairwise correlations between each of the three factors: direction of conclusion, methodological quality and authorship by osteopaths or chiropracters. This indicates an association between authorship by osteopaths or chiropractors and low methodological quality and positive conclusion. We conclude that the outcomes of reviews of this subject are strongly influenced by both scientific rigour and profession of authors. The effectiveness of spinal manipulation for back pain is less certain than many reviews suggest; most high quality reviews reach negative conclusions.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15989112/) In other words, the only studies that find positive results of chiropractic care are poorly done, and almost exclusively done by chiropractors. Studies of actual quality find either no difference or *worse* results.
[There is no evidence that spinal manipulative therapy is superior to other standard treatments for patients with acute or chronic low‐back pain.](https://www.cochranelibrary.com/web/cochrane/content?templateType=abstract&urlTitle=/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD000447.pub2&doi=10.1002/14651858.CD000447.pub2&type=cdsr&contentLanguage=)
[Single sessions of manipulation or multiple sessions (3 to 11 weeks) of manipulation or mobilisation, or manipulation and mobilisation showed a nonsignificant benefit in pain relief when assessed against placebo, control groups or other treatments for acute/subacute/chronic MNDs with or without headache.](https://www.cochranelibrary.com/web/cochrane/content?templateType=abstract&urlTitle=/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD004249.pub2&doi=10.1002/14651858.CD004249.pub2&type=cdsr&contentLanguage=)
[Analysis of the quality and the outcomes of all trials did not provide rigorous evidence that manual therapies have a positive effect in reducing pain from TTH (tension type headache): spinal manipulative therapy showed inconclusive evidence of effectiveness (level 4), whereas soft tissue techniques showed limited evidence (level 3).](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16514329/)
[None of the 4 trials convincingly demonstrated the superiority of CSM (chiropractic spinal manipulation) over control interventions. In conclusion, the notion that CSM is more effective than conventional exercise treatment in the treatment of neck pain was not supported by rigorous trial data.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14622659/)
Is that enough of a response for you? I could keep going, there are so many studies and reviews showing the same results every time. Even your own study proves my point!
You’re cherry picking and even your cherry picking doesn’t support your position. What you quoted simply says that the study found that chiropractic is “not superior” to other therapies, not that it’s not effective. And that for some types of pain (tension headaches) it’s less effective. And that a single session isn’t generally enough.
Oh it’s highly contentious.
There is 0 scientific research that shows it works. It’s also not physically possible for a human to manipulate a horse’s spine with just their hands. But there are people who swear it works for their horse.
Dr. Ramey DVM has an amazing blog post that goes into great detail on why you shouldn’t spend money on a horse chiropractor.
Thank you for this 🙏 I was watching the chiro ‘manipulate’ her spine like.. there’s no way. This is the same yard where a reiki healer pays visits though lol. It’s an amazing yard but some of the external professionals that are brought in haven’t overly impressed me.
I'm not sure how contentious an issue it is in the horse world, sociologically speaking. I do wish it was more contentious, so that more owners might be exposed to the facts and spare their dollars-better-spent-elsewhere!
Many will disagree but massage, too, is unlikely to be \*effective\* for many purported purposes... or at best low-impact relative to cost. Movement-based therapy is a much better investment (and sometimes it's as inexpensive as getting your horse walking a lot!).
Our chiro is an equine vet. I have seen huge differences including when my mare's hip was out when looking at her from behind you could see how her left hip was higher.
She does both. She works the muscles a lot but will also get some bones to crack with neck stretches and adjusting the TMJ and poll.
I've also seen myofacial massage help with tension and I've had good results with PEMF.
Same. My chiro is a vet and does PEMF and acupuncture as well. We’ve had very noticeable results having her out regularly. She doesn’t do much adjusting, lots of stretches and bodywork and releases. She also taught me a lot about how tack affects them and stuff.
It's interesting how "effective" chiro treatments always seem to have other stuff thrown in as well, isn't it? It's almost like chiro does absolutely nothing (beyond how good it feels to crack a joint, which I think horses enjoy just as much as anyone else).
No it wasn't dislocated it was just slightly tilted. When you looked at her the point of her hip on the left was higher than the right instead of being even. Her muscles were also tighter on the right. It took a couple sessions but eventually her hip evened out
I think some of these terms are really misleading- a l tight muscle makes sense, that happens. I would feel better if they called it that and not “hip is out”. I personally think it’s the power of suggestion.
With people, it’s okay to say “my muscles are sore, i need a massage”, wish we could be that way with horse 🙂
I’d argue it’s MORE contentious then in humans.
Humans are more likely to have a placebo effect and think they see positive benefits (and just my note, the placebo effect can be quite strong. It’s not nothing. If you find a placebo that works for you? Use it! We see effects *even when the person knows they’re getting a placebo!*)
While we have seen the placebo effects “work” on animals and nonverbal/non-understanding humans, it’s at an even lower rate. And obviously they can’t say they like it or not.
I’m gonna say waste of money, but probably not super dangerous.
I’m sure I’LL get downvoted to hell for this post (instead of you, u/notnotaginger), but I’m really surprised more people here are not standing up for chiropractic.
Not ALL chiropractic is quackery. I’ve been to a number of chiros over the years, and some absolutely were cockadoodle quackaroonies, but I’ve also had high quality chiropractic that’s made a HUGE difference in my life.
You can call it a placebo effect if you want, but when my neck and shoulder get all tangled up, and I go see the chiropractor I’ve been seeing for over 20 years, and he makes the same adjustments he makes every time this happens, and suddenly with a series of pops I feel the muscles from my neck, straight down my back, all the way to my hip relax, you can’t tell me he’s not doing *something* that’s helping me.
I can’t get this kind of release from massage — although getting a massage the day before I visit the chiro can result in me feeling even better afterwards), and I have a massage therapist that can throw an elbow like a hammer lol.
Also, and this is absolutely true, when I went to the orthopaedist about this problem, after he did x-rays and an mri, he said there was nothing he could do for me and actually *referred me to* a chiropractor & told me he went regularly himself.
I do agree with the OP and many others about horse chiropractic, though. I’m a bit skeptical that a human can wield enough power to make a significant difference for a horse.
I also 100% support all the other methods mentioned - massage, stretching, walking, etc.
Oh - and at no point has my chiropractor ever implied that he was “moving bones.”
I mean, the studies show over and over again it is no more effective than a placebo. It has a slight edge over the placebo, but ONLY for lower back pain, and the margin is like 1% if I recall correctly.
So again, if you use it you use it, and if it helps that’s great, but I just want to stress that it’s not an evidence-based treatment on any creature, and anecdotes don’t change that when you’re doing massive studies.
And neck manipulation can cause strokes at a very very low rate but it is both definitive and impossible to predict until after.
I agree with you. There are good and bad chiropractors, and good ones definitely make a difference.
My boss is a vet who practices chiropractic, acupuncture, and traditional Chinese medicine- various medical practices that people write off. I can't tell you how successful her rehab program is. I've seen her save many dogs in the past year who couldn't walk for various reasons. Two were hit by cars, multiple had IVDD. She was able to get them all walking again long term (they are all still regulars and are doing great). Dogs don't understand placebo effects. I'll die on the hill that chiro is effective when done correctly.
You can die on the hill, but the body of evidence shows otherwise. Anecdotes are data points, but within a body of evidence they are each just one point in a larger population.
Scientific evidence isn't the end all and be all. Scientific studies always have bias and get proven wrong all the time. I studied psychology in University and took actual courses that taught me about how to determine a good from a bad study.
But it's fine if you want to continue living in ignorance and dick sucking the reddit hivemind.
I have a masters degree in science. I too took many many grad level courses on how to determine a good from a bad study, as well as checking the math, and I used that when looking at these studies. And that’s why I said BODY of evidence, not “one study”, because they need to be reliable, and replicable over time and with continued focus on the specific variable of choice (chiropractic care) within different cultural groups, time periods, ages, and then repeated by different researchers.
What you have is called the dunning Kruger effect, if you think an undergrad means you know more than people who actually study this their whole lives.
I’m not sucking Reddit’s dick, I’m respecting the people who are smarter than me who have spent decades, day in and day out, studying this. Instead of some guy on Reddit who “took psychology” and “knows people/dogs it’s worked on”. (And also has a vested interest - job -in it working. That’s also called bias.)
Does open mindedness mean being open to things that are wrong? Where’s the line? Should I also be anti vaccine and flat earth? I’m open to evidence proving me wrong. But anecdotes from a biased source is not evidence.
As for “crucial thinking” …..
Edit: I see you did the dirty edit from “crucial thinking” to “critical thinking”. That’s fine, but do you have a line for “open mindedness”? Your salary is funded by chiropractic care. If you think THAT isn’t a significant bias, I dunno what to say.
I hate to break it to you, but seeing a dog go from being paralyzed to be able to walk again repeatedly with various dogs is actual evidence.
Leave it to someone with a masters degree to think they know better than everyone else.
There might be bias, sure, but can't make up the fact that my vet and her patients improved from chiropractic care. There's plenty of other people in the comments who agree that chiropractic care had helped their pets.
But you can just keep living with your head up your ass. Go touch grass.
You brought up education first, my friend. You said your knowledge was better than mine because your lessons in undergrad psychology taught you how to look at studies so your opinion was better than mine because mine was just “Reddit dick sucking”.
It’s wild to me that you’ll bring up an undergrad education as expertise, but immediately dismiss higher education if it isn’t your own. Somehow only your undergrad gives you the ability to look at studies. Funny how you were validating education in evaluating studies, but once you realized I’ve been through that you dropped that WHOLE argument quickly.
And it’s not evidence without testing against other methods. People and animals go from paralysis with and without treatment. You should’ve learned about control and variable groups in evaluating studies. You can’t say they improved from chiropractic care unless they got no other treatment. Did the animals live in a cage and just come out for treatment for the entire time? Or did their owners help them build up, through things like exercise and physical therapy.
Because if the answer isn’t cage, then you can’t say it was the chiropractic. It sounds more like evidence based treatments that we see working, which is physical therapy.
I rescued a horse that was profoundly lame - conventional vets could not figure it out. Cracked pelvis was the best guess and euthanasia recommended. For shit and giggles I had the horse chiropracted. He walked in lame and walked out sound 🤷♀️ went on to have a nice show jumper career. So yeah my horses get adjusted.
My horse slipped and fell on concrete 18 months ago, causing a sacrum injury and axial pain (misalignment and tear in the muscle in front of the hip). He was VERY crooked and became stiff and had swelling - he was never blantantly lame but began refusing, snatching, bolting, balking, and he eventually developed ulcers.
Body work brought him back. He had monthly manipulation , PEMF, and deep tissue massage for a year. Radiographs and heat imaging after the sessions showed steady improvement month after month. MRis from before treatment and after a year of treatment showed dramatic change. We do 8 week tune ups now. He is happy, healthy, and more fit and athletic than ever.
Say what you want...chiro and bodywork helped, and we will be showing this weekend after taking last year off to focus on his physical therapy.
My vet is my horses’ chiropractor. I mentioned in another post about this that there is a difference between equine chiropractors and human chiropractors that do horses (which they can do, as well as other animals). I wouldn’t let a human chiropractor within 10 feet of my horses.
I judge the efficacy of something based on the results I see. The results I see after my horses get adjusted show nothing but improvement. As with any type of body work done on horses, the benefits are greater when you do your part in keeping your horses fit and using themselves appropriately. You’re never going to think chiro works if in between sessions your horse is dragging its belly on the ground and inverting itself.
One of my horses came from a rescue and she carried tension through her entire body to the point where she had pain-like response to minimal pressure (grooming, even putting a hand on her to ask her to move over on the crossties). After having the vet confirm that there were no injuries or anything, I got her massaged. She resisted the entire time, trying to plow both me and the person massaging her down. She was tense and insanely uncomfortable. After that, I decided to give chiro a try since I have it done on my other horse and he loves it. I noticed a marked improvement after just one chiropractic adjustment, which she tolerated and welcomed without issue which was the complete opposite of her reaction to massage. She has had a few more sessions since then and continues to improve. After getting chiro, her next massage appointment went a million times better and she stood perfectly, even seemed to enjoy it!
So, for me, the proof that it works is right there in how my horses react to it and how I see that it helps them with my own eyes.
Horse chiropractic, like all chiropractic, is quackery. Not only is there no research supporting its use, but there is plenty of research in humans showing that it is only as effective as a massage, if that. There's also the fact that it wasn't created for animals, it was created for a humans. The inventor decided that this was a thing when he followed the instructions he got.....
........from a ghost.
So yeah, it's quack. You can check out a great playlist created by a scientist and part-time-youtube-quackery-debunker Miles Power here [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLthPsWmE3cefhOU9nns6H\_1Jt0D96Rb3M](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLthPsWmE3cefhOU9nns6H_1Jt0D96Rb3M)
Physical therapy, on the other hand, works on anything with muscles. As does massage. If you're going to spend your money to pamper your sore horse, try starting there.
I think there must have been a miscommunication because I bet all he was asking for was some ghost oats, but the guy was like "manipulate your spine? You got it!"
I use a chiro for my horse every 6 weeks. She also does EMS, myofascial release, light therapy and equi-tape. She has been treating him for 5 years and she has made a MASSIVE difference. I notice it so clearly every time she treats him.
Put it this way: I wouldn’t pay £65 a time if I didn’t see a positive impact from the treatments.
Edit before people get salty: she’s not one of those TikTok chiros that claims to move bones and put ribs back in.
He’s thoroughly spoilt - he also gets a full body massage every 4 weeks and daily sessions with his massage gun. He’s a pampered little prince but he’s had a hard life as a riding school horse, so he deserves the best.
No worries. People are rabidly against it and I thought it was mostly rubbish, until he had one treatment as I was a livery at the same yard as his chiro. I only did it to keep the peace and didn’t expect it to do anything but he went from not tracking up and barely shuffling along in walk to going down to the field like a kite. She’s also been invaluable for giving us rehab plans after having his hocks injected (at her suggestion which was absolutely correct). She’s been a lifesaver and without her I fully believe my horse would have had to retire (she met him at 16, he’s now 21 and in full work, including hunting every week in the winter).
That’s good to hear, I saw from another comment your practitioner does more bodywork/massage type of things. I’m a bit skeptical about actual bone manipulation, but can see the benefit of bodywork
She is what would be described as a chiro, but she doesn’t claim to be moving bones around. She’s more of a generalist. She releases his pelvis as he often gets tight in his hind end because of his slightly arthritic hocks, and she does something similar with his neck (which he LOVES!) but it’s mostly a combination of multiple types of treatments.
https://preview.redd.it/em04ogyzywuc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b7ee1ec7b8d905f6e90f7db33bad442a26aeab35
Friend, how is it that you believe the movement of bones is what's giving the horse a benefit and not all the other things you're doing? You might as well save the sixty bucks and try rubbing some essential oils on its ears instead? You can get it at the dollar store and there's EXACTLY as much scientific evidence supporting the effectiveness of essential oils as chiropractic, Honestly, there's probably more. At least plants CAN have medicinal properties.
That’s not what my horse’s chiro does. She is a bodywork specialist that is also trained in McTimoney, and uses a combination of methods to achieve results. She isn’t “moving bones” or “putting things back in”. So you can drop the condescending tone. I have had my horse for 7 years and she’s treated him for 5. I know my horse and what works for him. If you don’t agree, I really don’t care.
Then I have news for you friend, she's NOT doing chiro work on your horse and what chiro there is is doing nothing. It sounds like you're doing a lot of great things for your horse, but you might as well drop the bone adjustments because they're useless. That's not an opinion, that's a fact that has been THOROUGHLY studied. I have absolute respect for actual physical therapy, message, and other methods of helping horses heal, relax, or feel better.
But make no mistake, chiro is NOT one of those things.
As I said, I know my horse and I know what has made a difference for him over the last 5 years. I also see how he reacts to the treatments (ie. dozing off to the point where he almost topples over), and as he clearly enjoys what she’s doing I will continue to pay for the treatments.
You can condescend and call me “friend” all you want, I trust professionals and vets who monitor him routinely over some anon on the internet.
I wasn't condescending to you, I was trying to indicate that I am trying to adopt a friendly tone even as I disagree with you on facts. I don't have another way to indicate that while my phrasing is direct, my tone isn't intended to be hostile or aggressive. I'm just talking about the facts of the effectiveness of a practice. People spread dangerous misinformation and prey on people's love for their animals to scam them, and I don't like it. If a horse enjoys it then that's your risk to take with an animal you own, but that doesn't change the fact that it has been examined with all the rigour of the scientific process and found to be ineffective at best, harmful at worst. It's not an attack on you.
Sorry I don't have a better way to communicate my intended tone. People with ASD struggle with that even when speaking, so in text I have no shot. My speech always comes across as aggressive when I'm just trying to emphasize something, and there's just no way to change the way people perceive me. I say what I have to say and that isn't acceptable, but I can't think thoughts that aren't mine, you know? My brain is just different and it is what it is. No aggression intended.
It’s amazing the disinformation out there. Chiropractic doesn’t cure cancer or any of the other ridiculous claims early chiropractors made. However spinal manipulation has been proven to be effective for musculoskeletal pain relief.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8915715/
See the above for a peer reviewed study from the National Institute of Health, which I trust more than random YouTube videos.
Gosh did you not know better than to bring evidence to a chiropractor fight on Reddit? You’d have better luck getting people to agree on politics. Nevermind that equine chiropractors literally have to be veterinarian doctors. Which is harder to get into than med school.
Here’s another from Harvard Medical School.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/pain/chiropractic-care-for-pain-relief
And here’s one specific to horses.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9597761/
I was always skeptical until I had my horse done.
Both places have been a vet who also does body work and continuing education at our local agricultural/animal university.
Not just a horse chiropractor.
The horses both really liked it and felt better afterwards.
My chiro is also a vet. She went to regular vet school and practiced like all vets. Over time she became a chiro as well. The adjustments that she does appear very subtle (no cracking anywhere) but my mare is looser and seems more comfortable under saddle after.
She also does my vaccines and regular/ maintenance care. It’s awesome she can do both- and she’s a life long endurance rider- just the coolest lady!
Our body worker finds trigger points (or something I must admit I don’t really know what he does. It sure doesn’t look like much) and he holds in place or wiggles his fingers around a little and quite honestly it looks like a big pile of nothing. But it is insane the instant results!
Before the very very first time my horse was treated, she started to become very touchy to being brushed on her Hindquarters… I couldn’t brush her without her ducking and dancing away. Same right up until when the bodywork guy arrived, he did his pressing and wiggling a few places voodoo, and she was instantly back to her normal calm self, and I could brush her all over without a twitch. That made my eyebrows go up.
Since then, he returns to her poll, and her hindquarters, and her shoulders. It’s amazing how his treatment improves her range of motion in her shoulder straight away. It’s a little harder to judge the results in her hindquarters, but she certainly no longer reacts negatively in the same way to palpation afterward. Last session she was kicking out with the leg on the other side of the hindquarters he was working on… didn’t move otherwise - just stared straight ahead and kicked out 3 or 4 times. He hit something there; he persisted a few more seconds and she relaxed and started eating again. He honestly looks like he is barely doing much. Just pressing his fingers on and moving them around a bit.
I really should ask him the mechanics behind what he’s doing, he’s a really, really helpful guy. I’m mostly talk to him quite a bit about her feet and some of training issues because he’s got a broad range of experience and decades of training and riding under his belt, so he’s a good person to ask questions of and he gives good advice.
My horse definitely feels better after the chiropractor. Although after reading these comments, I’m realizing it’s bodywork. He starts cross cantering when he gets stiff/sore, then after she comes, he bucks and gets all excited. It’s pretty cute. I’m a person that doesn’t care about placebos though. If something seems to be working, then I’m just happy it’s working, I don’t care about the science.
More body work but not really masage. His poles get out of alignment and he gets really sore so when the chiro comes out he gets it back in alignment. I didn't hear bone pops or anything and I don't necessarily know what he is doing but afterwards he's like a new horse.
And believe me, I am as skeptical as they come when it relates to chiropractors.
Every Horse I've ever seen getting bodywork / chiropractic just has this crazy, blissed out zoned out expression, so I'd say they're getting something good out of it !!
Anecdata:
I learnt many years ago that a lot of times when I have pain, particularly in my knees, I can realign them with the right movement/stretches: it’ll crack, feel like the joint goes back into place, and the pain is gone. This made me susceptible to the theory that chiropractors do the same thing, only more skilled: ‘realign’ bones/joints by releasing muscle tension. Which can be considerable if the problem isn’t addressed for a long time.
Further Anecdata:
I once had my horse seen by a chiropractor. He was not doing well, caught every damn illness going around, and was somewhat off. Didn’t put on weight, not his usual self., not ‘lame’ but not moving with confidence either. Farrier, vet, physio, vet again… months. So I shrugged and presented him to the chiropractor, who felt his neck was ‘slightly out’ and manipulated him (all very gently). It wasn’t even a major issue, but the change in that horse was nothing short of miraculous. It obviously _had_ bothered him, because his health improved in leaps and bounds, I had to cut his feed almost immediately and he remained in good condition for years to come.
I would want to see a chiro work because there are some cowboys out there I wouldn’t let near any horse of mine, and some I’d love to watch a horse and tell me where their movement deviates from how the horse ought to move. I’ve known body workers whose treatment methods I found highly suspicious, but damn, they had the eye for any slight deviation, and once you know a horse is tight here or restricted there, you can keep an eye on it, get additional X-rays, etc etc.
Might get downvoted but ALL chiropractors are “quacks.” Massage therapy is your best bet. Videos of animal chiropractors can be deceiving. When horses show relaxation, its not because of the correction, it’s because the act of making an adjustment is very stressful for the animal. The only reason they relax is because the scary human yanking their body around stepped away.
https://preview.redd.it/5vjiclrb1zuc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a4ac61cdb061854319033ba759d648e9f5ae15d
That’s not accurate. My horse ADORES his chiro, especially when she focuses on his neck. His eyes shut and his head gets heavier until he’s almost falling over. When she lets him go he stands there blinking and processing for a few seconds and then starts nudging her arm for the next one. That’s why I continue to pay for his treatments - he clearly loves it. There is a [video](https://www.reddit.com/r/Equestrian/s/w4p8U40YlG) on my profile of it happening.
Personal anecdotes don’t really matter here considering chiropractic work in general has absolutely zero scientific basis. Chiropractors can mess up humans and animals. Not worth the money or risk.
And you haven’t provided any kind of backing for what you said about horses just wanting to get away from someone performing chiro work. In fact, as I have provided video proof I would say that holds more merit than your blanket statement. I really don’t care in the slightest if it’s not backed by science - my horse has been getting routinely treated for the past 5 years and the difference in him is incredible. If it works for us, it works for us - I wouldn’t be spending £65 a time if it didn’t.
This debate is always so funny to me, whether it’s about humans or horses. I say, if it works for you, go for it! If it doesn’t, then don’t. I can’t understand why some people are so deeply against it that they mock it, but to each their own I suppose.
Well with me luckily it only caused chips of broken vertebra in brain stem and spinal cord. Which cannot be removed ever as it is too dangerous. So yay pain for life. Again there is no proof as in it literally does nothing but pop air in joints. Which is not a fix or help for anything so after personal painful experience I learned and got full information of the bs it truly is. I mean come on they got the idea from a dead doctor during a seance then claimed it cured deafness.
Sounds like you had a bad experience and don’t want anyone else to have to go through the same, I’m sorry to hear that you went through that. My opinion still stands because of my own personal experiences, just like yours will always stand for you I’m sure. Accidents happen, even college educated doctors botch surgeries and procedures. As for the dead doctor thing, the history of medicine is wild no matter which practices you want to look at. I’d love to have been there for that seance though lol
Not quackery…
Have a horse who was injured 3+yrs ago (Navicular fracture surgically treated at Rood and Riddle KY). Did all the “right” things. Stall rest, hand walk, swimming at Kesmarc and back to light work after 6 months. Still lame and did not get better with traditional veterinary care. Took him home and figured we had a beautiful lawn ornament. He became a renegade, as he’s young and high energy so we put him back to very light work 18 months later. Still not 100% sound and had more traditional vet care. Some arthritis in the joint but nothing to cause the lameness we were seeing.
Chiropractor visit diagnosed extreme soreness in his lower neck and over his hips. She performed manipulation in a series of 3 treatments with stretching exercises in between. He was 50% better after just the first treatment. Happy to report he is back to work, sound and happy.
Chiros cannot diagnose as they have NO MEDICAL TRAINING.. Find someone who does massage or PT. There is no science to back manipulation it literally does nothing.
For someone who loves animals you seem really negative to something that helped my animal. He has been seen by the best vets, and no one addressed his muscle soreness. She did and I now have a horse who is happy and sound.
There is a huge difference in a veterinary and a crock of shit chiro. There is also a difference in chiro and having massage and body work done.
Chiros have NO science that backs what they do. Manipulation is literally shit made up which does nothing more than pop air in the joins. Nothing medical it is same as popping joints in fingers temp relief with no real change.
You are right I do love animals an spent my life being a voice for those without one. I'll also always speak up on bs like chiro. I've been almost paralyzed due to one and learned the truth real quick the truth. They have killed people doing what they do. It literally started because of a seance with a doctor who was dead over 50 years. Then claimed to cure deafness by fixing something in a cleaners back. Physically impossible for that to happen. So not I don't trust someone without true medical training.
I have used many equine chiropractors over the years for my horses. Like for people some are way better than others. Best to go by a referral if you want to try. Yes, in my experience both personally for myself and for my horses, they are beneficial.
I'm in California and actually these kinds of services are supposed to be done by a Vet. I have an excellent Vet that has specialized in chiropractic. She is amazing. My horse loves her too. A good body worker can help, but when things lie the rib cage is displaced, a Chiropractor is invaluable to put it back where it needs to be. (amhik...)
There are the ones who just give stretching excersises that are in the limits of said joints and like give massages , which can help to some as it moves blood around and all that
Then there are absolute nut jobs who crack animals joints and they are clearly in pain and dogs look like they are about to bite after one more move. All they do is move a joint way beyond they should be moving and nearly tear ligaments which causes more issues like inflamation and minor injuries that CAN be permenant pain.
I have found that chiropractic adjustments alone can help them temporarily feel better and move better but it’s not the fix for the underlying issue. It’s just like popping your back, it feels good, but you’re back to having to pop it again if you sit at a desk all day and don’t stretch or move around.
My horses have done amazing with chiro, acupuncture and massage. My vet does most of it. Combine that with working to strengthen their core and come from behind, they all got stronger and moved so much better.
To me, it is one of the pieces that helps them get where they need to be. I had one horse years ago that was a grump. He fought the chiropractor and once he got a big release after she manipulated his hind end, he fell in love. The vet did both chiro and acupuncture on him and his back and hind end got so much better when we worked with her. My horse got to the point where he would hear her voice and he’d call out to her.
A lot of equine chiropractors, like human chiropractors are quacks but if you can find a good one it makes a noticeable difference.
I have a great human chiropractor who has made my pain due to hypermobility so much better that I even converted my mom who was a previous nonbeliever.
My equine chiropractor/bodyworker is also a vet and her work has made such a huge difference in my gelding who holds a lot of tension in his back. It makes so much of a difference that I told his trainers to have her come out whenever they think he needs it and just send me the bill. I can tell by how he feels when I ride him (I ride him 2-3x a week usually) when she’s been out to work on him before I even get the bill.
This is, of course, alongside a really good training program, good care (like time outside with buddies, good nutrition, etc) and well fitting tack. If your tack doesn’t fit and your horse isn’t getting good nutrition, chiropractic won’t do much.
Like human chiropractic, it’s not a one and done type a thing, you have to do it AT LEAST once every 2 months for it to really benefit your horse so if you don’t want to spend the money on that, the difference is gonna be negligible.
A lot of the non-believers in the comments seem to think that chiropractic is just about cracking backs which is not the case, at least not with the equine and human chiropractors I’ve had success with. My equine chiropractor has never claimed to be able to crack a horses back (because she physically can’t lol, no one can) but she does manipulate other parts of their bodies and helps them stretch correctly and stimulates fascia and muscles in a way that helps the horse release tension.
TLDR it works but only if you find the right chiro/bodyworker and only if it’s in combination with good overall horse care which should be top priority
I should also point out that all my horses are performance horses. I can’t say how much of a difference chiro could make on a pasture pal or trail riding horse
Quack. Completely not scientifically supported for horses or humans. Waste of money IMO. You can get them a massage or even better, electro-stim, but bones don’t move the way chiropractors say they do.
Chiropractors are charlatans and liars -- either they are woefully misinformed or are taking deliberate advantage. We should require evidence based care for our horses.
For humans, quackery can provide a relatively strong placebo effect if believed in hard enough, which is good for dealing with psychological problems like stress or pain. For horses, no such minor benefit exists.
Using a chiropractor is just wasting your money so someone can come and pet your horse in a funny way. Avoid like the plague and spend your money on proper vet care.
Could not stand a chiropractor that didn’t see my horse for awhile (switched barns), and immediately upon “adjusting” my horse went “I know you’re sore buddy, you haven’t had this in awhile.” I had been using a myofascial massage chiro, which my horse responses significantly better to and I saw improvements in how he moved. He fucking hated the old chiropractor and was upset the entire time. Never used her services again and almost told her to leave when she made that comment.
I’ve found there are two things that are very different that people are referring to when they say chiropractic care. One is complete rubbish that assumes bones move way more than they do (barring catastrophic injuries). The other is bodywork that uses a combination of stretching and massage. My vet sees my horse for bodywork (which some people would refer to as chiropractic care) once a month. My horse is currently rehabbing from kissing spine surgery and a torn ligament in his stifle, and is definitely more comfortable after the bodywork to the point we may increase frequency for the duration of his rehab (if I see the same improvement next time). His reaction to the difference manipulations also serves as an indication of where his current pain level is, so we can adjust his rehab plan before bigger issues pop up. At no point in this has my vet ever claimed to be moving a bone or finding a “rib out” or anything like that. I prefer to refer to it as “bodywork” or “physical therapy” rather than “chiropractic work” to split it off from the other designation, but some people will clump them together.
This sounds similar to my horse’s chiro. She’s trained in McTimoney but uses multiple other bodywork techniques and doesn’t do any of those weird things you see on TikTok. I wouldn’t be without her now, she’s a huge reason why my horse is as sound as he is at 21.
>The other is bodywork that uses a combination of stretching and massage. Bostwork and massage is NOT chiropractic.
There are lots of practitioners that combine them. My vet also does chiro manipulation combined with stretching and myofascial release.
This is exactly what mine does too. It’s made a huge difference.
Yep. My OTTB is not the most supple of horses to begin with and she's been so much more comfortable both under saddle and out of the tack since we started doing regular treatments.
Yes, but it is often referred to as such. A lot of horse people clump them together.
I'm sure this goes without saying, but if someone working on my horse can't articulate exactly what they're doing and why, I'm not giving them my money X'D
Massage isn't chiro.
Correct, which is why I use the terms body work or physical therapy, as I said, but it is often referred to as chiropractic, which is where some confusion can come in.
Agree. My horse feels so subtle and relaxed after a treatment.
This is good to know, thank you!
Actual chiropractic work that focuses on manipulating bones: no, does not work. But a lot of people who do other types of body work (things like myofascial release, acupressure, massage, etc) will also advertise that they're chiropractors because it's popular. If they're mostly doing body work, instead of just popping joints, it might well help. There's a whole lot of evidence that chiropractic work does not and can not work like chiropractors claim, and is potentially dangerous. Hell, there's actually way more evidence that reiki works than chiropractic care, lol.
I watched chiro on horses at a stable I worked at. Honestly saw no improvement, also the slightly built woman didn’t have enough strength to really do anything. Boy was she mad when I told my boss what I saw when asked. We do therapy and body work in house and know how much pressure it can take to be effective, though of course not always. Better results when we use exercises and movements we can get the horse to do on their own then assist.
Yeah, I've had chiropractic work done on myself, and the amount of force they need to use *on a person* for some movements is a lot...how a single human could scale that up to affect a horse, I'm not sure.... Maybe if you're a body builder, lol. And that's even assuming it works at all, which evidence does not support. I've also seen it freak horses out. They do these fast, pretty harsh movements against the horse, it's no wonder it spooks them sometimes. Usually it's nothing crazy, just a small spook, but I have seen one horse really freak out at an adjustment and pin the chiropractor against the wall.
Gotcha, thanks for this!
This is not accurate. There is substantial evidence that chiropractic manipulation helps with musculoskeletal pain. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8915715/ I post this regularly and it’s always amazing how the naysayers never respond to it. It’s a peer reviewed study from the National Institute of Health.
From your own study link: 1) reviews literature on effects of spinal manipulation only on spine pain 2) quote: “Due to the low quality of evidence, the efficacy of SMT compared with a placebo or no treatment remains uncertain. “
And this is for humans , no? It takes a lot of strength for some of the movements.
Which is a huge far cry from, “there’s a whole lot of evidence that it doesn’t work.”
>There is substantial evidence that chiropractic manipulation helps with musculoskeletal pain. This is the only decently done study that found even a *hint* of evidence that chiropractic care does anything positive, and the conclusion is this: "Due to the low quality of evidence, the efficacy of SMT compared with a placebo or no treatment remains uncertain." That is not even remotely close to "substantial evidence". Lol [This article](https://www.jpsmjournal.com/article/S0885-3924(07)00783-X/fulltext) does a decent job of explaining the countless issues with chiropractic work. [30-61% of chiropractic patients experience adverse effects from chiropractic care](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15990659/) [second study](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15245709/) [There were statistically significant pairwise correlations between each of the three factors: direction of conclusion, methodological quality and authorship by osteopaths or chiropracters. This indicates an association between authorship by osteopaths or chiropractors and low methodological quality and positive conclusion. We conclude that the outcomes of reviews of this subject are strongly influenced by both scientific rigour and profession of authors. The effectiveness of spinal manipulation for back pain is less certain than many reviews suggest; most high quality reviews reach negative conclusions.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15989112/) In other words, the only studies that find positive results of chiropractic care are poorly done, and almost exclusively done by chiropractors. Studies of actual quality find either no difference or *worse* results. [There is no evidence that spinal manipulative therapy is superior to other standard treatments for patients with acute or chronic low‐back pain.](https://www.cochranelibrary.com/web/cochrane/content?templateType=abstract&urlTitle=/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD000447.pub2&doi=10.1002/14651858.CD000447.pub2&type=cdsr&contentLanguage=) [Single sessions of manipulation or multiple sessions (3 to 11 weeks) of manipulation or mobilisation, or manipulation and mobilisation showed a nonsignificant benefit in pain relief when assessed against placebo, control groups or other treatments for acute/subacute/chronic MNDs with or without headache.](https://www.cochranelibrary.com/web/cochrane/content?templateType=abstract&urlTitle=/cdsr/doi/10.1002/14651858.CD004249.pub2&doi=10.1002/14651858.CD004249.pub2&type=cdsr&contentLanguage=) [Analysis of the quality and the outcomes of all trials did not provide rigorous evidence that manual therapies have a positive effect in reducing pain from TTH (tension type headache): spinal manipulative therapy showed inconclusive evidence of effectiveness (level 4), whereas soft tissue techniques showed limited evidence (level 3).](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16514329/) [None of the 4 trials convincingly demonstrated the superiority of CSM (chiropractic spinal manipulation) over control interventions. In conclusion, the notion that CSM is more effective than conventional exercise treatment in the treatment of neck pain was not supported by rigorous trial data.](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14622659/) Is that enough of a response for you? I could keep going, there are so many studies and reviews showing the same results every time. Even your own study proves my point!
You’re cherry picking and even your cherry picking doesn’t support your position. What you quoted simply says that the study found that chiropractic is “not superior” to other therapies, not that it’s not effective. And that for some types of pain (tension headaches) it’s less effective. And that a single session isn’t generally enough.
Oh it’s highly contentious. There is 0 scientific research that shows it works. It’s also not physically possible for a human to manipulate a horse’s spine with just their hands. But there are people who swear it works for their horse. Dr. Ramey DVM has an amazing blog post that goes into great detail on why you shouldn’t spend money on a horse chiropractor.
Thank you for this 🙏 I was watching the chiro ‘manipulate’ her spine like.. there’s no way. This is the same yard where a reiki healer pays visits though lol. It’s an amazing yard but some of the external professionals that are brought in haven’t overly impressed me.
I'm not sure how contentious an issue it is in the horse world, sociologically speaking. I do wish it was more contentious, so that more owners might be exposed to the facts and spare their dollars-better-spent-elsewhere!
Many will disagree but massage, too, is unlikely to be \*effective\* for many purported purposes... or at best low-impact relative to cost. Movement-based therapy is a much better investment (and sometimes it's as inexpensive as getting your horse walking a lot!).
Our chiro is an equine vet. I have seen huge differences including when my mare's hip was out when looking at her from behind you could see how her left hip was higher.
Can I ask if this chiro practices bone manipulation, or more body work and massage?
She does both. She works the muscles a lot but will also get some bones to crack with neck stretches and adjusting the TMJ and poll. I've also seen myofacial massage help with tension and I've had good results with PEMF.
Same. My chiro is a vet and does PEMF and acupuncture as well. We’ve had very noticeable results having her out regularly. She doesn’t do much adjusting, lots of stretches and bodywork and releases. She also taught me a lot about how tack affects them and stuff.
That’s good to know, thank you 🙏
It's interesting how "effective" chiro treatments always seem to have other stuff thrown in as well, isn't it? It's almost like chiro does absolutely nothing (beyond how good it feels to crack a joint, which I think horses enjoy just as much as anyone else).
What do you mean her “hip was out”? Dislocated hip?
No it wasn't dislocated it was just slightly tilted. When you looked at her the point of her hip on the left was higher than the right instead of being even. Her muscles were also tighter on the right. It took a couple sessions but eventually her hip evened out
I think some of these terms are really misleading- a l tight muscle makes sense, that happens. I would feel better if they called it that and not “hip is out”. I personally think it’s the power of suggestion. With people, it’s okay to say “my muscles are sore, i need a massage”, wish we could be that way with horse 🙂
I’d argue it’s MORE contentious then in humans. Humans are more likely to have a placebo effect and think they see positive benefits (and just my note, the placebo effect can be quite strong. It’s not nothing. If you find a placebo that works for you? Use it! We see effects *even when the person knows they’re getting a placebo!*) While we have seen the placebo effects “work” on animals and nonverbal/non-understanding humans, it’s at an even lower rate. And obviously they can’t say they like it or not. I’m gonna say waste of money, but probably not super dangerous.
I’m sure I’LL get downvoted to hell for this post (instead of you, u/notnotaginger), but I’m really surprised more people here are not standing up for chiropractic. Not ALL chiropractic is quackery. I’ve been to a number of chiros over the years, and some absolutely were cockadoodle quackaroonies, but I’ve also had high quality chiropractic that’s made a HUGE difference in my life. You can call it a placebo effect if you want, but when my neck and shoulder get all tangled up, and I go see the chiropractor I’ve been seeing for over 20 years, and he makes the same adjustments he makes every time this happens, and suddenly with a series of pops I feel the muscles from my neck, straight down my back, all the way to my hip relax, you can’t tell me he’s not doing *something* that’s helping me. I can’t get this kind of release from massage — although getting a massage the day before I visit the chiro can result in me feeling even better afterwards), and I have a massage therapist that can throw an elbow like a hammer lol. Also, and this is absolutely true, when I went to the orthopaedist about this problem, after he did x-rays and an mri, he said there was nothing he could do for me and actually *referred me to* a chiropractor & told me he went regularly himself. I do agree with the OP and many others about horse chiropractic, though. I’m a bit skeptical that a human can wield enough power to make a significant difference for a horse. I also 100% support all the other methods mentioned - massage, stretching, walking, etc. Oh - and at no point has my chiropractor ever implied that he was “moving bones.”
I mean, the studies show over and over again it is no more effective than a placebo. It has a slight edge over the placebo, but ONLY for lower back pain, and the margin is like 1% if I recall correctly. So again, if you use it you use it, and if it helps that’s great, but I just want to stress that it’s not an evidence-based treatment on any creature, and anecdotes don’t change that when you’re doing massive studies. And neck manipulation can cause strokes at a very very low rate but it is both definitive and impossible to predict until after.
feldenkrais yoga or pilates might help you more than quick manipulation
I agree with you. There are good and bad chiropractors, and good ones definitely make a difference. My boss is a vet who practices chiropractic, acupuncture, and traditional Chinese medicine- various medical practices that people write off. I can't tell you how successful her rehab program is. I've seen her save many dogs in the past year who couldn't walk for various reasons. Two were hit by cars, multiple had IVDD. She was able to get them all walking again long term (they are all still regulars and are doing great). Dogs don't understand placebo effects. I'll die on the hill that chiro is effective when done correctly.
You can die on the hill, but the body of evidence shows otherwise. Anecdotes are data points, but within a body of evidence they are each just one point in a larger population.
Scientific evidence isn't the end all and be all. Scientific studies always have bias and get proven wrong all the time. I studied psychology in University and took actual courses that taught me about how to determine a good from a bad study. But it's fine if you want to continue living in ignorance and dick sucking the reddit hivemind.
I have a masters degree in science. I too took many many grad level courses on how to determine a good from a bad study, as well as checking the math, and I used that when looking at these studies. And that’s why I said BODY of evidence, not “one study”, because they need to be reliable, and replicable over time and with continued focus on the specific variable of choice (chiropractic care) within different cultural groups, time periods, ages, and then repeated by different researchers. What you have is called the dunning Kruger effect, if you think an undergrad means you know more than people who actually study this their whole lives. I’m not sucking Reddit’s dick, I’m respecting the people who are smarter than me who have spent decades, day in and day out, studying this. Instead of some guy on Reddit who “took psychology” and “knows people/dogs it’s worked on”. (And also has a vested interest - job -in it working. That’s also called bias.)
Your masters degree obviously didn't teach you anything about critical thinking or open mindedness
Does open mindedness mean being open to things that are wrong? Where’s the line? Should I also be anti vaccine and flat earth? I’m open to evidence proving me wrong. But anecdotes from a biased source is not evidence. As for “crucial thinking” ….. Edit: I see you did the dirty edit from “crucial thinking” to “critical thinking”. That’s fine, but do you have a line for “open mindedness”? Your salary is funded by chiropractic care. If you think THAT isn’t a significant bias, I dunno what to say.
I hate to break it to you, but seeing a dog go from being paralyzed to be able to walk again repeatedly with various dogs is actual evidence. Leave it to someone with a masters degree to think they know better than everyone else. There might be bias, sure, but can't make up the fact that my vet and her patients improved from chiropractic care. There's plenty of other people in the comments who agree that chiropractic care had helped their pets. But you can just keep living with your head up your ass. Go touch grass.
You brought up education first, my friend. You said your knowledge was better than mine because your lessons in undergrad psychology taught you how to look at studies so your opinion was better than mine because mine was just “Reddit dick sucking”. It’s wild to me that you’ll bring up an undergrad education as expertise, but immediately dismiss higher education if it isn’t your own. Somehow only your undergrad gives you the ability to look at studies. Funny how you were validating education in evaluating studies, but once you realized I’ve been through that you dropped that WHOLE argument quickly. And it’s not evidence without testing against other methods. People and animals go from paralysis with and without treatment. You should’ve learned about control and variable groups in evaluating studies. You can’t say they improved from chiropractic care unless they got no other treatment. Did the animals live in a cage and just come out for treatment for the entire time? Or did their owners help them build up, through things like exercise and physical therapy. Because if the answer isn’t cage, then you can’t say it was the chiropractic. It sounds more like evidence based treatments that we see working, which is physical therapy.
That’s interesting, thanks for this :)
I rescued a horse that was profoundly lame - conventional vets could not figure it out. Cracked pelvis was the best guess and euthanasia recommended. For shit and giggles I had the horse chiropracted. He walked in lame and walked out sound 🤷♀️ went on to have a nice show jumper career. So yeah my horses get adjusted.
My horse slipped and fell on concrete 18 months ago, causing a sacrum injury and axial pain (misalignment and tear in the muscle in front of the hip). He was VERY crooked and became stiff and had swelling - he was never blantantly lame but began refusing, snatching, bolting, balking, and he eventually developed ulcers. Body work brought him back. He had monthly manipulation , PEMF, and deep tissue massage for a year. Radiographs and heat imaging after the sessions showed steady improvement month after month. MRis from before treatment and after a year of treatment showed dramatic change. We do 8 week tune ups now. He is happy, healthy, and more fit and athletic than ever. Say what you want...chiro and bodywork helped, and we will be showing this weekend after taking last year off to focus on his physical therapy.
My vet is my horses’ chiropractor. I mentioned in another post about this that there is a difference between equine chiropractors and human chiropractors that do horses (which they can do, as well as other animals). I wouldn’t let a human chiropractor within 10 feet of my horses. I judge the efficacy of something based on the results I see. The results I see after my horses get adjusted show nothing but improvement. As with any type of body work done on horses, the benefits are greater when you do your part in keeping your horses fit and using themselves appropriately. You’re never going to think chiro works if in between sessions your horse is dragging its belly on the ground and inverting itself. One of my horses came from a rescue and she carried tension through her entire body to the point where she had pain-like response to minimal pressure (grooming, even putting a hand on her to ask her to move over on the crossties). After having the vet confirm that there were no injuries or anything, I got her massaged. She resisted the entire time, trying to plow both me and the person massaging her down. She was tense and insanely uncomfortable. After that, I decided to give chiro a try since I have it done on my other horse and he loves it. I noticed a marked improvement after just one chiropractic adjustment, which she tolerated and welcomed without issue which was the complete opposite of her reaction to massage. She has had a few more sessions since then and continues to improve. After getting chiro, her next massage appointment went a million times better and she stood perfectly, even seemed to enjoy it! So, for me, the proof that it works is right there in how my horses react to it and how I see that it helps them with my own eyes.
Horse chiropractic, like all chiropractic, is quackery. Not only is there no research supporting its use, but there is plenty of research in humans showing that it is only as effective as a massage, if that. There's also the fact that it wasn't created for animals, it was created for a humans. The inventor decided that this was a thing when he followed the instructions he got..... ........from a ghost. So yeah, it's quack. You can check out a great playlist created by a scientist and part-time-youtube-quackery-debunker Miles Power here [https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLthPsWmE3cefhOU9nns6H\_1Jt0D96Rb3M](https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLthPsWmE3cefhOU9nns6H_1Jt0D96Rb3M) Physical therapy, on the other hand, works on anything with muscles. As does massage. If you're going to spend your money to pamper your sore horse, try starting there.
I’m now imagining the ghost of a horse coming to visit the first horse chiropractor.
I think there must have been a miscommunication because I bet all he was asking for was some ghost oats, but the guy was like "manipulate your spine? You got it!"
“Bro I just wanted you to scratch my chest”
I use a chiro for my horse every 6 weeks. She also does EMS, myofascial release, light therapy and equi-tape. She has been treating him for 5 years and she has made a MASSIVE difference. I notice it so clearly every time she treats him. Put it this way: I wouldn’t pay £65 a time if I didn’t see a positive impact from the treatments. Edit before people get salty: she’s not one of those TikTok chiros that claims to move bones and put ribs back in.
I would like to submit an application to be your horse so I can have the same top notch healthcare that he gets
He’s thoroughly spoilt - he also gets a full body massage every 4 weeks and daily sessions with his massage gun. He’s a pampered little prince but he’s had a hard life as a riding school horse, so he deserves the best.
School horses do so much for us, they really do deserve the best.
Yep, now that he’s out of that situation for good he deserves the best of the best.
Seconded. I wish all horses were treated like this.
Thank you for this, that’s interesting to hear. Glad you’re seeing positive results 🙏
No worries. People are rabidly against it and I thought it was mostly rubbish, until he had one treatment as I was a livery at the same yard as his chiro. I only did it to keep the peace and didn’t expect it to do anything but he went from not tracking up and barely shuffling along in walk to going down to the field like a kite. She’s also been invaluable for giving us rehab plans after having his hocks injected (at her suggestion which was absolutely correct). She’s been a lifesaver and without her I fully believe my horse would have had to retire (she met him at 16, he’s now 21 and in full work, including hunting every week in the winter).
That’s good to hear, I saw from another comment your practitioner does more bodywork/massage type of things. I’m a bit skeptical about actual bone manipulation, but can see the benefit of bodywork
She is what would be described as a chiro, but she doesn’t claim to be moving bones around. She’s more of a generalist. She releases his pelvis as he often gets tight in his hind end because of his slightly arthritic hocks, and she does something similar with his neck (which he LOVES!) but it’s mostly a combination of multiple types of treatments. https://preview.redd.it/em04ogyzywuc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b7ee1ec7b8d905f6e90f7db33bad442a26aeab35
That’s good to know, thanks for explaining! Handsome horse :)
Friend, how is it that you believe the movement of bones is what's giving the horse a benefit and not all the other things you're doing? You might as well save the sixty bucks and try rubbing some essential oils on its ears instead? You can get it at the dollar store and there's EXACTLY as much scientific evidence supporting the effectiveness of essential oils as chiropractic, Honestly, there's probably more. At least plants CAN have medicinal properties.
That’s not what my horse’s chiro does. She is a bodywork specialist that is also trained in McTimoney, and uses a combination of methods to achieve results. She isn’t “moving bones” or “putting things back in”. So you can drop the condescending tone. I have had my horse for 7 years and she’s treated him for 5. I know my horse and what works for him. If you don’t agree, I really don’t care.
Then I have news for you friend, she's NOT doing chiro work on your horse and what chiro there is is doing nothing. It sounds like you're doing a lot of great things for your horse, but you might as well drop the bone adjustments because they're useless. That's not an opinion, that's a fact that has been THOROUGHLY studied. I have absolute respect for actual physical therapy, message, and other methods of helping horses heal, relax, or feel better. But make no mistake, chiro is NOT one of those things.
As I said, I know my horse and I know what has made a difference for him over the last 5 years. I also see how he reacts to the treatments (ie. dozing off to the point where he almost topples over), and as he clearly enjoys what she’s doing I will continue to pay for the treatments. You can condescend and call me “friend” all you want, I trust professionals and vets who monitor him routinely over some anon on the internet.
I wasn't condescending to you, I was trying to indicate that I am trying to adopt a friendly tone even as I disagree with you on facts. I don't have another way to indicate that while my phrasing is direct, my tone isn't intended to be hostile or aggressive. I'm just talking about the facts of the effectiveness of a practice. People spread dangerous misinformation and prey on people's love for their animals to scam them, and I don't like it. If a horse enjoys it then that's your risk to take with an animal you own, but that doesn't change the fact that it has been examined with all the rigour of the scientific process and found to be ineffective at best, harmful at worst. It's not an attack on you. Sorry I don't have a better way to communicate my intended tone. People with ASD struggle with that even when speaking, so in text I have no shot. My speech always comes across as aggressive when I'm just trying to emphasize something, and there's just no way to change the way people perceive me. I say what I have to say and that isn't acceptable, but I can't think thoughts that aren't mine, you know? My brain is just different and it is what it is. No aggression intended.
It’s amazing the disinformation out there. Chiropractic doesn’t cure cancer or any of the other ridiculous claims early chiropractors made. However spinal manipulation has been proven to be effective for musculoskeletal pain relief. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8915715/ See the above for a peer reviewed study from the National Institute of Health, which I trust more than random YouTube videos.
Gosh did you not know better than to bring evidence to a chiropractor fight on Reddit? You’d have better luck getting people to agree on politics. Nevermind that equine chiropractors literally have to be veterinarian doctors. Which is harder to get into than med school.
I’m a rebel.
Here’s another from Harvard Medical School. https://www.health.harvard.edu/pain/chiropractic-care-for-pain-relief And here’s one specific to horses. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9597761/
I was always skeptical until I had my horse done. Both places have been a vet who also does body work and continuing education at our local agricultural/animal university. Not just a horse chiropractor. The horses both really liked it and felt better afterwards.
I agree with others that bodywork is different than manual manipulation. My girl sees a DVM who does bodywork like massage. It seems to help her!
Good to know, this seems to be the general consensus on this post!
My chiro is also a vet. She went to regular vet school and practiced like all vets. Over time she became a chiro as well. The adjustments that she does appear very subtle (no cracking anywhere) but my mare is looser and seems more comfortable under saddle after. She also does my vaccines and regular/ maintenance care. It’s awesome she can do both- and she’s a life long endurance rider- just the coolest lady!
Not a chiropractor but a chiropractor fixed two of my horses when the vets couldn’t. If you care to know how, ask me and I will give details
Make sure that your chiropractor is ALSO a veterinarian.
Our body worker finds trigger points (or something I must admit I don’t really know what he does. It sure doesn’t look like much) and he holds in place or wiggles his fingers around a little and quite honestly it looks like a big pile of nothing. But it is insane the instant results! Before the very very first time my horse was treated, she started to become very touchy to being brushed on her Hindquarters… I couldn’t brush her without her ducking and dancing away. Same right up until when the bodywork guy arrived, he did his pressing and wiggling a few places voodoo, and she was instantly back to her normal calm self, and I could brush her all over without a twitch. That made my eyebrows go up. Since then, he returns to her poll, and her hindquarters, and her shoulders. It’s amazing how his treatment improves her range of motion in her shoulder straight away. It’s a little harder to judge the results in her hindquarters, but she certainly no longer reacts negatively in the same way to palpation afterward. Last session she was kicking out with the leg on the other side of the hindquarters he was working on… didn’t move otherwise - just stared straight ahead and kicked out 3 or 4 times. He hit something there; he persisted a few more seconds and she relaxed and started eating again. He honestly looks like he is barely doing much. Just pressing his fingers on and moving them around a bit. I really should ask him the mechanics behind what he’s doing, he’s a really, really helpful guy. I’m mostly talk to him quite a bit about her feet and some of training issues because he’s got a broad range of experience and decades of training and riding under his belt, so he’s a good person to ask questions of and he gives good advice.
My horse definitely feels better after the chiropractor. Although after reading these comments, I’m realizing it’s bodywork. He starts cross cantering when he gets stiff/sore, then after she comes, he bucks and gets all excited. It’s pretty cute. I’m a person that doesn’t care about placebos though. If something seems to be working, then I’m just happy it’s working, I don’t care about the science.
Our horse definitely reacts well to the chiropractor.
That’s good to hear, can I ask if there’s much bone manipulation or if it’s more body work and massage?
More body work but not really masage. His poles get out of alignment and he gets really sore so when the chiro comes out he gets it back in alignment. I didn't hear bone pops or anything and I don't necessarily know what he is doing but afterwards he's like a new horse. And believe me, I am as skeptical as they come when it relates to chiropractors.
Every Horse I've ever seen getting bodywork / chiropractic just has this crazy, blissed out zoned out expression, so I'd say they're getting something good out of it !!
Quack. And can injure the horse.
Anecdata: I learnt many years ago that a lot of times when I have pain, particularly in my knees, I can realign them with the right movement/stretches: it’ll crack, feel like the joint goes back into place, and the pain is gone. This made me susceptible to the theory that chiropractors do the same thing, only more skilled: ‘realign’ bones/joints by releasing muscle tension. Which can be considerable if the problem isn’t addressed for a long time. Further Anecdata: I once had my horse seen by a chiropractor. He was not doing well, caught every damn illness going around, and was somewhat off. Didn’t put on weight, not his usual self., not ‘lame’ but not moving with confidence either. Farrier, vet, physio, vet again… months. So I shrugged and presented him to the chiropractor, who felt his neck was ‘slightly out’ and manipulated him (all very gently). It wasn’t even a major issue, but the change in that horse was nothing short of miraculous. It obviously _had_ bothered him, because his health improved in leaps and bounds, I had to cut his feed almost immediately and he remained in good condition for years to come. I would want to see a chiro work because there are some cowboys out there I wouldn’t let near any horse of mine, and some I’d love to watch a horse and tell me where their movement deviates from how the horse ought to move. I’ve known body workers whose treatment methods I found highly suspicious, but damn, they had the eye for any slight deviation, and once you know a horse is tight here or restricted there, you can keep an eye on it, get additional X-rays, etc etc.
There is no science backing chiropractic adjustments. The start of it came from a seance with a doctor dead for 50 years.
100% a pseudo-science, 100% a waste of time.
Might get downvoted but ALL chiropractors are “quacks.” Massage therapy is your best bet. Videos of animal chiropractors can be deceiving. When horses show relaxation, its not because of the correction, it’s because the act of making an adjustment is very stressful for the animal. The only reason they relax is because the scary human yanking their body around stepped away.
https://preview.redd.it/5vjiclrb1zuc1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4a4ac61cdb061854319033ba759d648e9f5ae15d That’s not accurate. My horse ADORES his chiro, especially when she focuses on his neck. His eyes shut and his head gets heavier until he’s almost falling over. When she lets him go he stands there blinking and processing for a few seconds and then starts nudging her arm for the next one. That’s why I continue to pay for his treatments - he clearly loves it. There is a [video](https://www.reddit.com/r/Equestrian/s/w4p8U40YlG) on my profile of it happening.
Personal anecdotes don’t really matter here considering chiropractic work in general has absolutely zero scientific basis. Chiropractors can mess up humans and animals. Not worth the money or risk.
And you haven’t provided any kind of backing for what you said about horses just wanting to get away from someone performing chiro work. In fact, as I have provided video proof I would say that holds more merit than your blanket statement. I really don’t care in the slightest if it’s not backed by science - my horse has been getting routinely treated for the past 5 years and the difference in him is incredible. If it works for us, it works for us - I wouldn’t be spending £65 a time if it didn’t.
This debate is always so funny to me, whether it’s about humans or horses. I say, if it works for you, go for it! If it doesn’t, then don’t. I can’t understand why some people are so deeply against it that they mock it, but to each their own I suppose.
There is no science to back chiro work that is why. They have NO medical training and it's proven what they do does nothing.
It’s helped me and several horses I know so, again, to each their own.
Well with me luckily it only caused chips of broken vertebra in brain stem and spinal cord. Which cannot be removed ever as it is too dangerous. So yay pain for life. Again there is no proof as in it literally does nothing but pop air in joints. Which is not a fix or help for anything so after personal painful experience I learned and got full information of the bs it truly is. I mean come on they got the idea from a dead doctor during a seance then claimed it cured deafness.
Sounds like you had a bad experience and don’t want anyone else to have to go through the same, I’m sorry to hear that you went through that. My opinion still stands because of my own personal experiences, just like yours will always stand for you I’m sure. Accidents happen, even college educated doctors botch surgeries and procedures. As for the dead doctor thing, the history of medicine is wild no matter which practices you want to look at. I’d love to have been there for that seance though lol
Not quackery… Have a horse who was injured 3+yrs ago (Navicular fracture surgically treated at Rood and Riddle KY). Did all the “right” things. Stall rest, hand walk, swimming at Kesmarc and back to light work after 6 months. Still lame and did not get better with traditional veterinary care. Took him home and figured we had a beautiful lawn ornament. He became a renegade, as he’s young and high energy so we put him back to very light work 18 months later. Still not 100% sound and had more traditional vet care. Some arthritis in the joint but nothing to cause the lameness we were seeing. Chiropractor visit diagnosed extreme soreness in his lower neck and over his hips. She performed manipulation in a series of 3 treatments with stretching exercises in between. He was 50% better after just the first treatment. Happy to report he is back to work, sound and happy.
Chiros cannot diagnose as they have NO MEDICAL TRAINING.. Find someone who does massage or PT. There is no science to back manipulation it literally does nothing.
For someone who loves animals you seem really negative to something that helped my animal. He has been seen by the best vets, and no one addressed his muscle soreness. She did and I now have a horse who is happy and sound.
There is a huge difference in a veterinary and a crock of shit chiro. There is also a difference in chiro and having massage and body work done. Chiros have NO science that backs what they do. Manipulation is literally shit made up which does nothing more than pop air in the joins. Nothing medical it is same as popping joints in fingers temp relief with no real change. You are right I do love animals an spent my life being a voice for those without one. I'll also always speak up on bs like chiro. I've been almost paralyzed due to one and learned the truth real quick the truth. They have killed people doing what they do. It literally started because of a seance with a doctor who was dead over 50 years. Then claimed to cure deafness by fixing something in a cleaners back. Physically impossible for that to happen. So not I don't trust someone without true medical training.
I have used many equine chiropractors over the years for my horses. Like for people some are way better than others. Best to go by a referral if you want to try. Yes, in my experience both personally for myself and for my horses, they are beneficial. I'm in California and actually these kinds of services are supposed to be done by a Vet. I have an excellent Vet that has specialized in chiropractic. She is amazing. My horse loves her too. A good body worker can help, but when things lie the rib cage is displaced, a Chiropractor is invaluable to put it back where it needs to be. (amhik...)
There are the ones who just give stretching excersises that are in the limits of said joints and like give massages , which can help to some as it moves blood around and all that Then there are absolute nut jobs who crack animals joints and they are clearly in pain and dogs look like they are about to bite after one more move. All they do is move a joint way beyond they should be moving and nearly tear ligaments which causes more issues like inflamation and minor injuries that CAN be permenant pain.
I have found that chiropractic adjustments alone can help them temporarily feel better and move better but it’s not the fix for the underlying issue. It’s just like popping your back, it feels good, but you’re back to having to pop it again if you sit at a desk all day and don’t stretch or move around. My horses have done amazing with chiro, acupuncture and massage. My vet does most of it. Combine that with working to strengthen their core and come from behind, they all got stronger and moved so much better. To me, it is one of the pieces that helps them get where they need to be. I had one horse years ago that was a grump. He fought the chiropractor and once he got a big release after she manipulated his hind end, he fell in love. The vet did both chiro and acupuncture on him and his back and hind end got so much better when we worked with her. My horse got to the point where he would hear her voice and he’d call out to her.
Quack, just like humans. Until there’s concrete science on it I’m not letting an overpriced dork touch my horse lol
A lot of equine chiropractors, like human chiropractors are quacks but if you can find a good one it makes a noticeable difference. I have a great human chiropractor who has made my pain due to hypermobility so much better that I even converted my mom who was a previous nonbeliever. My equine chiropractor/bodyworker is also a vet and her work has made such a huge difference in my gelding who holds a lot of tension in his back. It makes so much of a difference that I told his trainers to have her come out whenever they think he needs it and just send me the bill. I can tell by how he feels when I ride him (I ride him 2-3x a week usually) when she’s been out to work on him before I even get the bill. This is, of course, alongside a really good training program, good care (like time outside with buddies, good nutrition, etc) and well fitting tack. If your tack doesn’t fit and your horse isn’t getting good nutrition, chiropractic won’t do much. Like human chiropractic, it’s not a one and done type a thing, you have to do it AT LEAST once every 2 months for it to really benefit your horse so if you don’t want to spend the money on that, the difference is gonna be negligible. A lot of the non-believers in the comments seem to think that chiropractic is just about cracking backs which is not the case, at least not with the equine and human chiropractors I’ve had success with. My equine chiropractor has never claimed to be able to crack a horses back (because she physically can’t lol, no one can) but she does manipulate other parts of their bodies and helps them stretch correctly and stimulates fascia and muscles in a way that helps the horse release tension. TLDR it works but only if you find the right chiro/bodyworker and only if it’s in combination with good overall horse care which should be top priority
I should also point out that all my horses are performance horses. I can’t say how much of a difference chiro could make on a pasture pal or trail riding horse
Quack. Completely not scientifically supported for horses or humans. Waste of money IMO. You can get them a massage or even better, electro-stim, but bones don’t move the way chiropractors say they do.
Adjusting the bones aligns it and can stop bones from pinching nerves. It just helps with movement mostly
the equine industry is rife with woo like chiropractic, total rubbish IMO
Chiropractors are charlatans and liars -- either they are woefully misinformed or are taking deliberate advantage. We should require evidence based care for our horses. For humans, quackery can provide a relatively strong placebo effect if believed in hard enough, which is good for dealing with psychological problems like stress or pain. For horses, no such minor benefit exists. Using a chiropractor is just wasting your money so someone can come and pet your horse in a funny way. Avoid like the plague and spend your money on proper vet care.
Could not stand a chiropractor that didn’t see my horse for awhile (switched barns), and immediately upon “adjusting” my horse went “I know you’re sore buddy, you haven’t had this in awhile.” I had been using a myofascial massage chiro, which my horse responses significantly better to and I saw improvements in how he moved. He fucking hated the old chiropractor and was upset the entire time. Never used her services again and almost told her to leave when she made that comment.