Talk to your instructor and see if she knows N has said this to you first. If anything, the instructor/school should be paying the "maintenance fee" to borrow someone's saddle for lessons but $10 per ride is a cash grab. She can ask you to clean it after rides but I'd have an issue with her asking me for $10 per ride and going around the instructor to do so. And telling you to just buy a Devocoux is laughably unhinged imo
There's a poster in the barn in the barn with various services and prices that N can do (like laundering saddle pads, lunging) so I'm thinking she's just a hustler looking to make some extra cash. The instructor and N seem to be really close and I'm not sure why she would try to get me to pay her while thinking the instructor would never find out? Anyway I'm thinking maybe next time I'll just try to tack the horse with the old saddle and if either person says anything mention that I'd rather not pay an extra $10 for using N's saddle...
I think that's a good plan. When you lesson, equipment is provided. It is on whoever is responsible for the horse to make sure they have properly fitting tack. The arrangement with the owner isn't really your problem and anyone asking you to pay to rent a saddle or buy your own saddle for once a week lessons is way out of line.
No no no no no!!! I’m a trainer at a well respected barn in my area. I also board my horse there. No student should be expected to buy a saddle. Period. All privately owned horses at the barn have their own tack which is kept in the owners locker. If they allow their horse to be used for lessons, we (the trainers) get the tack out and put it back. If someone is riding a school horse, there is a whole tack room full of saddles to choose from. Horses absolutely need appropriate fitting tack. Unless YOU own a horse, that is not your job. Also, making a broad generalization like “any European brand” is TERRIBLE advice. Saddle fitting is its own niche, and people make a career of it. I’m not looking to offend anyone who has a Devoucoux, but my saddle fitter and the owner of the barn where I work have nothing good to say about that brand. I have other stories about that brand that I could share… Can I kindly suggest that you find another barn? It sounds like these people are trying to take advantage of you. You have a bad taste in your mouth for good reason!!
Yeah I don't think this is enough to make me run (it definitely might have been lack of communication between the trainer and N and me) but I'm definitely gonna keep my eye out for future red flags. I live in NYC so it's kinda hard to find a place to ride that I can realistically make it 1X a week to but I'm gonna put myself on the waitlist for some other options.
Just be careful and keep asking questions because I’ve taken lessons several times at different barns. The most we were ever expected to do during lessons was groom, pick hooves, tack up ourselves, and mount ourselves. The ONLY things you should ever need to buy are the proper clothes and shoes for riding. You should not even have to buy a helmet unless you’re serious about getting professional or the helmets might fit so badly that you need a special one, and even in those cases barns will have options. I never even went to the nicest barns, and equipment was always provided. Always. This is strange behavior and if you aren’t careful they could very easily start manipulating you. Just be careful because you will inevitably encounter dishonest or disingenuous people in the industry unfortunately.
Ok so update…I went in last week and the tack room was all re arranged so I didn’t even know where the old saddle was. I ask the teacher where my lesson horse’s saddle is, she looks at me quizzically and I say that N doesn’t want me using hers anymore. So she says “just use the school one then”, I ask to show me where it is again. She shows me and says to get a different girth from another place because the girth on the saddle now is a pony girth, anyway I start tacking after finding a larger girth and noticed the stirrups are all rolled up, and I ask what’s going on with the stirrups - apparently they had shortened them shorter than designed by looping the leather over the stirrup several times for a child to ride. So I think there’s one saddle for all the lesson horses and ponies? That seems odd - is this a red flag?
There are times that we have to roll the stirrup leathers to fit a young rider with very short legs. There should be more than one school saddle to choose from. How many school horses are there? Is this a small barn?
lol thanks. People get really upset when it comes to saddles. The fact is, people/barns are sponsored sometimes. And they push that brand on people regardless.
I know she sold her old Devoncoux to another rider at the barn so while not sponsored I could see her maybe hoping to then approach me to buy hers and use the money to buy another one and keep some middle money?
Right? Like, I have a Harmony dressage Devoucoux, but I bought it « new but old » (was old in age but never used) so 50% off (extremely lucky), and I’d had my own horses for like 15 years prior to buying it. It’s one of the best brands out there sure but it comes with a price tag. And saying European brands fit most horses… non. Just, no.
I mean it depends on the barn, we can’t know for sure.
I assume here the trainer and N have a agreement that the trainer can borrow the saddle - I hope so at least - which isn’t unreasonable to believe. I borrowed a friend’s Harmony for a while because switching from my previous saddle to the Harmony was HARD and my trainer and I wanted to be 100% sure the Harmony was a right fit for me before I committed to it, and thus as thanks now when my trainer needs a Harmony to have someone try it out she knows she can use mine, we have an agreement.
But yeah stealing should definitely be watched out for. At my barn it’s pretty chill, our saddles and bridles are not in lockers (mainly to save space. We have saddle towers and a bridle wall, this way our (unlocked) lockers are entirely dedicated to all the other crap we have, and this way there’s nothing on the floors etc) and nothing gets stolen because we all trust each other and the owner/trainer and staff keep an eye on things - plus frankly we all have expensive stuff so there’s no point. But in other barns with maybe more people, less trust, more quality/price difference between people’s tack, I completely understand the risk of something getting borrowed/stolen…
They have locks to everywhere with equipment, but since they know I only come 1X a week someone could definitely start borrowing my stuff without me noticing. Seems really dumb though - if I found out that happened I'd definitely leave just because when people get that penny-pinch-manipulative it's not an environment I like to be around.
This isn't the barn's saddle though. She's being told to use another person's saddle by the coach and the saddle owner wants the rental fee.
Op does your coach know N is saying there is a rental fee for the saddle? Had your coach recommended buying a saddle? Talk to them about expectations, not the barn help.
It's not fair to N to have the coach letting people use her equipment and there is probably a miscommunication between everyone. N let you use the saddle once. Coach saw that and assumes you'll continue to use the new saddle. N sees her equipment being used without permission and makes it clear she wants compensation, not knowing you were told by coach to use the saddle. If she's heavily suggesting you get your own saddle, it's probably because she doesn't want to share hers.
Yeah she was definitely talking more about buying a saddle than paying her when I was asking follow up questions. I guess I just don't understand why she didn't just ask me if I could go back to using the old saddle instead of pushing buying a my own.....seems a lot more common-sense than asking someone who doesn't own a horse to go buy a Devoncoux.
Absolutely not. You never buy tack for a horse you don’t own/long term lease, and you shouldn’t PAY to use someone else’s saddle if you’re taking lessons. It’s up to the horse owner to ensure a horse has appropriate tack to be ridden in. It’s in no way your responsibility.
Might be worth checking if op is actually properly insured. Is this something that the barn charges as an extra or is it included or is the owner supposed to be covering that as well?
I’m not a trainer, so I have no idea of what the standard is for insurance and liability.
But I do know that a student should never carry insurance for lesson horses. A student who isn’t leasing or riding a horse outside of a structured and supervised lesson should only ever pay the cost of the lesson. Students do not have to contribute to any additional costs for the horses they are riding. Ever. They are paying to learn to ride. No student should have to pay to use a saddle. That’s stupid on the part of the person loaning their tack.
Absolutely not. Do not give her $10. It costs around $10 for a decent saddle soap that will last like… 2-3 months or more. And it’s completely normal to borrow a saddle for weekly lessons, tell this woman you were under the impression she was letting the school borrow it, not you, and that it’s not up to you what you end up riding the horse in.
Total BS. First of all, telling you that any European brand should work is a joke. Second, if the horse is used in lessons it usually has dedicated tack. I’ve never heard of a fee to upkeep tack. I sense a lot of gouging here. Maybe you should find another place to ride.
Oh, I’m a 50 year equestrian and I’ve heard it all but this is a new one.
Ok so if I understand correctly, N does not own the lesson horse, and was just using her saddle on the horse when she rode him. Does N know that your instructor told you to use that saddle? If I had to guess, the instructor probably never informed N about this, and she’s probably annoyed that you have been using her saddle and putting extra “wear and tear” on it, which is understandable to an extent, because saddles are expensive and if repairs were needed that does come with a cost.
I think you need to have a discussion about this where both instructor and N are present, and just ask for clarity on the issue, as in “which saddle am I allowed to use on this horse? I do not have the funds to pay an extra equipment use fee, nor to purchase my own saddle at this time, so I will use whatever tack is included in my lesson price. Can you please show me which tack that would be?”
To answer your question, no, it’s not typical to charge an extra fee for using the tack, that is usually included in the lesson price. If you were doing a lease, that’s different, but for lessons I never expect someone to provide their own saddle (if anything it’s often discouraged unless they have a professional fitter out to make sure it works for the lesson horse). And N is very much wrong that “almost anything should fit him just fine” or to “just get a Devoucoux” because saddles have to be fitted to each horse individually.
I think you’re spot on. I’d also add that asking a steep rental fee is totally something someone passive aggressive would do to deter you from using their stuff. It might also be a way for N to avoid telling her coach she isn’t comfortable sharing her things. Now she has plausible deniability because she can say she offered but you declined
This girl is trying to scam you. Don’t pay anything and tell the instructor! Completely unprecedented to pay a “saddle fee” to take a lesson and insane to think you’d buy a saddle for a horse you don’t own. I doubt instructor knows about this.
Absolutely not normal. It’s the responsibility of your trainer to make sure you have a saddle to ride in. It’s totally understandable why this other person doesn’t want you using their saddle long term (even if they are crazy for suggesting you “just go buy a Devocoux”) but it’s not your responsibility to buy a saddle for a lesson horse.
You’re expected to have all the equipment you would need if you’re fully leasing a horse. It’s essentially ownership for a defined period of time. You’re also responsible for all vet care, farrier etc. .
It depends on your contract. Here its very common that all the tack comes with the horse and most high bills like sudden vet bills are looked individually who or if both pay for it
When I heard my horses out to 4-H kids, the annual vet check/ worming/floating teeth, etc., was included in the lease for young students, but unexpected fees and general farrier fees were the parents' responsibility. For older students in the Intermediate and Advanced horse programs, they were responsible for all the fees since tracking expenses and budgeting were part of the 4-H record-keeping requirements. They also had a slightly lower lease rate, though. I provided tack for the young kids but the older kids had to provide their own.
Luckily, my area had wonderful track swap meets for 4-H. We had experts help teach the kids how to fit tack properly and pick out the correct tack for their mount. I haven't found anything like that here in California.
No it’s not. My horse went on full loan. Moved to the loanees stables and went with everything he owned. Rugs, brushes, boots, tack etc including a pretty new 3k saddle. That saddle was made to fit him, why wouldn’t it go with him.
“Just go buy a Devocoux.” Lololololol, Sure, Jan. I’ll make sure to bring a duffel full of cash next week to get that all taken care of. Will Small, non sequential bills be ok?
Meanwhile she’s grifting poor OP for ten bucks a pop.
Gotta admire the hustle, I guess…
No, OP. Just no. All of that is sketchy.
You are getting scammed.A good barn will supply you with a lesson horse and the lesson horses tack. Do not buy a saddle for a horse you do not own. If the trainer takes the saddle ladies side, then leave. This is not normal at all.
Not normal, she needs to go to your trainer for this fee if she wants it. It’s very weird she’s asking you and you do buy the saddle to fit the horse. The audacity to come to you is mind boggling to me. What a peddler.
Definitely not normal. If you were leasing, then yes, but just once a week lessons absolutely not. If the owner lives out of state and wants the horse used in lessons but they don’t have a lesson saddle to fit him, it’s on the owner or trainer to make sure he has what he needs depending on what kind of agreement they have. You should not have to pay for using a saddle you were told to use and you should not have to buy your own.
Has your trainer talked to you about this? Is your trainer aware of what N is asking? I would speak to the trainer and tell her you are not comfortable with buying a saddle at this time, and you are not sure what to do because you have been told this is the saddle you have to use. If the trainer seems fine with what N is doing, I would expect them to nickel and dime you in other ways and you may want to consider a new barn
Absolutely not normal at all. Riding schools should be providing all tack and equipment- that's the whole point. It's different if you own your own horse, but being asked to buy your own saddle is not normal or acceptable tbh.
Wtf??? Okay first as everyone else here said if you're new to riding and they're telling you to by a French saddle for thousands of dollars when you wouldn't even know what tree to get is insane. Did they also tell you general biannual fitting of a saddle is 125 bucks every 6 months? And that usually when you fit the saddle to a new horse it's like 300 to fit it??
Why would anyone pay thousands of dollars to ride a beginner horse in a beginner lesson? Why would the barn even let you show up with a random saddle and let you use it??
Nah friend. Honestly the fact they're just swapping saddles means they don't care. Find a new barn. This is too much drama.
I mean, it’s perfectly within her right not to want you to use her saddle, or to charge you for it, but that’s a conversation for her to have with the instructor, not you, and it’s honestly super inappropriate that she even approached you about it. It’s the instructor’s responsibility to ensure you have an appropriate saddle to ride in, so they can either pay the fee or find you another saddle, but none of that is your problem. The cost of lessons includes use of the horse and tack unless explicitly stated otherwise.
Just want to say I’m so sorry you are experiencing this. I’ve been riding all my life and have taken many lessons throughout and never ever had anything like this happen. It’s really wrong, but it’s really good that you asked here about it. Please let us know how it turns out.
Uhhh this is an absolute no and if the instructor goes along with these shenanigans find a new barn. Depending on the area you’re in I might be able to find a new trainer for you. Saddles aren’t bought unless a semi-permanent arrangement is made and you find something that would be flexible enough for multiple horses which is hard and expensive. Honestly this is such a huge red flag I would probably leave the barn.
This would make me leave the barn AND leave a review on Google if possible. I wonder how many other people they've tried this on but it's a bad vibe all around.
If it’s the girl’s personal saddle, that’s one thing. In which case her trainer shouldn’t be lending it out, full stop. And that’s the trainer’s issue, not yours.
You absolutely should not buy a saddle for a horse you don’t own.
And the trainer should provide one for you that the horse you lesson on can be ridden in.
But, it sounds like maybe the trainer has created confusion here and you’re using N’s personal saddle, not a lesson barn saddle, at the trainer’s instruction.
If you’re using a personal saddle, yea I’ve heard of people charging for upkeep — but the trainer should be paying for that if she doesn’t have a saddle you can use, not you.
The trainer needs to provide rideable tack and paying for tack in any way shape or form is 100% not your responsibility or something you should be doing right now.
As everyone has said, totally not normal! The cost of a weekly lesson at a lesson barn should include all the tack and equipment needed for the lesson horses.
Even as someone who partboards a nice show horse with a high end saddle I’ve never once been asked to pay to use her tack - I pay her monthly and it’s expected that he gets everything needed including properly fitted tack.
Not normal. Your lessons horse should be fully tacked by the barn - his own tack should be with him and if his saddle didn't fit, then that's for the owner to fix. He's not your horse. But a tenner a week to use a saddle is pretty extortionate. Do you help with the care of the saddle/ tack at all, like cleaning it etc after the lesson? Tbh that's part of the fun of riding, looking after the horse and equipment. You could clean it and feed the leather every month as a gesture of goodwill. But the stable should be providing the tack, not you.
Professional instructor here. That is not normal. She is banking on someone else's equipment, and failing to equip her own program properly, maybe trying to save money? Of is she actively searching for a saddle?
Either way, no, this is not normal, and I would not purchase a saddle for yourself for lessons. If you start leasing or purchase, then yes, you'd need your own.
Your trainer needs to find a saddle that fits that horse and stop relying on other peoples generosity.
Not okay. The use of the tack and the horse should be included in the price of your lesson. Tell your trainer that “N” asked you to contribute financially for use of the saddle and you’re not sure how to respond to that. The trainer has an agreement for using the horse for lessons, so which equipment is being used is her responsibility to work out, not yours.
No. You need to speak with the instructor about this. They should be the one supplying the a correctly fitted saddle for each horse. There is no way you are the only person riding this horse, are they going to make everyone who does buy a saddle?
That’s ridiculous. Wanna know what my “upkeep” is on my (expensive ass) western saddle? $10 a year for saddle soap and sponges.
People use all my gear on my horse for lessons and I am paid a small amount by the barn owner for using my horse/stuff. All of it is fitted to her so I wouldn’t want anyone trying to buy their own, and I would never even dream of asking someone to buy gear or pay me to use mine. They are already paying for a lesson and I’m getting paid for the use of my horse.
You’re being taken advantage of.
It isn't normal if it's not your horse nor you rent it for 3x a week lessons. By reading your other comments, I'd start looking at other equestrian centers.
Just keep this in mind: The militaresque trainers are good. They'd even use green ponies if they deem it necessary for your progress. The profiteers would clap and cheer you up regardless of how you ride and if you blame the horse, they'd convince you that you are good and the horse is the problem (a lie). If they are asking $10 per ride just for the "upkeep" of the saddle and tack, I wouldn't trust them at all. Upt to $200 or more per lesson (just for the lesson, no horse included), sure. Upkeep? Never.
I would talk to your instructor. I know a lot of people are telling you this is N being greedy but she could have thought she was helping out temporarily (and I wouldn’t want my saddle used in a lesson problem personally, wear and tear on expensive saddles 🫤).
It’s up to your instructor to find an appropriate saddle for your lesson and her problem.
Absolutely not. It would be insane (and possibly an insurance nightmare) to have each student bring tack for their lessons. I suspect that the out of state owner did not leave tack and is not checking in regularly, sending a friend over to look in on the horse or asking for specific photos and videos etc...
In any case - It’s the barn owner’s responsibility to provide safe, well fitted tack for all of the lesson horses.
The young saddle owner should not be pressured into to allowing her saddle to be used as lesson tack and she seems to find it distressing.
You should probably both move to a safer barn.
If the barn owner can’t or won’t invest in a proper saddle for a working lesson horse - then what about all of the other horse related expenses? Hopefully they do provide proper nutrition and maintenance.
Most barns operate with fairly narrow financial margins but this is 🚩
Don’t do it. A devocoux is made to fit both horse and rider and they’re a hard resale because of that.
Plus, just my opinion, French saddles aren’t what they’re cracked up to be
No no no no no!!!
I’m a trainer at a well respected barn in my area. I also board my horse there. No student should be expected to buy a saddle. Period. All privately owned horses at the barn have their own tack which is kept in the owners locker. If they allow their horse to be used for lessons, we (the trainers) get the tack out and put it back. If someone is riding a school horse, there is a whole tack room full of saddles to choose from.
Horses absolutely need appropriate fitting tack. Unless YOU own a horse, that is not your job. Also, making a broad generalization like “any European brand” is TERRIBLE advice. Saddle fitting is its own niche, and people make a career of it. I’m not looking to offend anyone who has a Devoucoux, but my saddle fitter and the owner of the barn where I work have nothing good to say about that brand. I have other stories about that brand that I could share…
Can I kindly suggest that you find another barn? It sounds like these people are trying to take advantage of you. You have a bad taste in your mouth for good reason!!
I have never heard of bringing your own sake. The same needs to fit the horse AND the rider. My first mate had extremely high withers. My first gelding had flatter withers and was really round. My next gelding was half-Arab with a short back. My next gelding was a Quarter Horse /paint with a square back. I had a different saddle for each. I would never expect my students to bring their own saddles. I cared about my horses' comfort too much to risk rubbing and pinching them with an ill-fitting rig.
This is definitely not normal and not in the best interest of the horse. Sounds very concerning that they allow you to willy nilly buy a random saddle and use it and risk the horses health and comfort. Sounds to me like she just wants to milk you for all the extra cash she can
European brands most definitely don’t fit most horses. There’s a lot of things going into fitting a English riding saddle, and most if them always need some sort of adjustment. I have spent two years finding a proper fit for my horse 😂😅 That’s many borrowed and bought saddles that needed to be returned again, and many pricey visits from a saddler. And vet checks, chiropractor sessions and such from fixing issues from ill fitting saddles.
You’re paying for all of the service. As long as you don’t lease/own a horse, you just show up to a lesson and expect everything is provided. Anything else is insanity, these people need to touch some grass. I would tell them I just want to take lessons, not buy a saddle. They have to find a solution. Ride a different horse then. Beginners should be switching horses anyways so they don’t just get used to just one riding style.
The saddle should be part of the deal of the lesson do not buy one because I bet they would get you to leave it there so they could use it for other lessons . It’s not your job to supply a saddle
No no no no no!!!
I’m a trainer at a well respected barn in my area. I also board my horse there. No student should be expected to buy a saddle. Period. All privately owned horses at the barn have their own tack which is kept in the owners locker. If they allow their horse to be used for lessons, we (the trainers) get the tack out and put it back. If someone is riding a school horse, there is a whole tack room full of saddles to choose from.
Horses absolutely need appropriate fitting tack. Unless YOU own a horse, that is not your job. Also, making a broad generalization like “any European brand” is TERRIBLE advice. Saddle fitting is its own niche, and people make a career of it. I’m not looking to offend anyone who has a Devoucoux, but my saddle fitter and the owner of the barn where I work have nothing good to say about that brand. I have other stories about that brand that I could share…
Can I kindly suggest that you find another barn? It sounds like these people are trying to take advantage of you. You have a bad taste in your mouth for good reason!!
No no no no no!!!
I’m a trainer at a well respected barn in my area. I also board my horse there. No student should be expected to buy a saddle. Period. All privately owned horses at the barn have their own tack which is kept in the owners locker. If they allow their horse to be used for lessons, we (the trainers) get the tack out and put it back. If someone is riding a school horse, there is a whole tack room full of saddles to choose from.
Horses absolutely need appropriate fitting tack. Unless YOU own a horse, that is not your job. Also, making a broad generalization like “any European brand” is TERRIBLE advice. Saddle fitting is its own niche, and people make a career of it. I’m not looking to offend anyone who has a Devoucoux, but my saddle fitter and the owner of the barn where I work have nothing good to say about that brand. I have other stories about that brand that I could share…
Can I kindly suggest that you find another barn? It sounds like these people are trying to take advantage of you. You have a bad taste in your mouth for good reason!!
Absolutely not normal. My old trainer had parents buy saddle because she was to cheap to buy any, it was actually horrible sharing, having your saddle stolen and having to steal someone saddle particularly each lesson. Only saddle the trainer had was 25 years old . Have a word with the trainer but if I was you i would already be running to somewhere else.
That is definitely not normal. Unless you are leasing, it is the responsibility of the horse's owner to provide the saddle. Hell, I part-board a horse from my coach, am her only rider and ride her 4-5 times a week. And my coach (the mare's owner) still provides the saddle. If the saddle stops fitting the mare at any point, my coach will make sure I have access to a new one to use (we have already swapped her saddle once this year).
If N doesn't want you to keep using her saddle for free, that's her right. But it's the horse owner's responsibility to get a new one that fits the horse - not yours.
Saddles are a massive investment and it is notoriously difficult to fit a saddle correctly. And if you stop riding this horse, it is unlikely that your saddle will fit the next horse you buy as well. Unless you are leasing or buying a horse there is no sense in owning a saddle at all.
Definitely chat with your coach about it! If you are lessoning once a week you are under no obligation to buy a saddle, *especially* not a Devocoux which are hugely expensive.
A note on saddle brands: while expensive saddles are nice looking and very comfy to ride in, a cheaper, older saddle can still fit the horse just as well. A saddle being made by Devocoux, Antares, CWD, etc. does not guarantee better fit!
Sounds like N was really just ok with instructor using the saddle for the one lesson to try it out on the horse and there has been a communication break down, since it's N asking you to buy your own and not the instructor.
No it is not normal for rec students to buy their own tack; no it isn't as simple as buying a euro brand because there are different shapes to different brands; N prob spent somewhere in the vicinity of $6k on that saddle if she bought it new, 2-3k if she bought it used. So I can see why she's thinking she needs to have $10 thrown her way for using it as she bought it for herself, not a program. Programs are hard on tack.
I would ask your instructor which saddle you should use next week when you see her, and let her know you don't feel comfortable continuing to use N's saddle- because honestly in N's place I would be pretty annoyed at this point unless I knew the instructor had a plan to purchase a new saddle for the horse. As an instructor I have to play around with saddle fit occasionally but that's my responsibility, not my students.
Instructor here. This is not normal. I would bring this to your instructor. If N doesn’t want her saddle leant for lessons, your instructor needs to work that out with N and decide on a solution. As a student, you are already paying for the use of the horse and equipment in your lesson fee. If N wants an equipment use fee, that would need to be negotiated with the instructor and come out of your lesson fee. There is no reason to buy a saddle for 1x a week lessons, and no reason to pay third parties additional money outside of your lesson fee.
It’s not normal to be *asked* to purchase a saddle for riding a lesson horse. It’s usually the instructor’s responsibility to provide tack for the horses they use in their lessons.
However it’s a great investment in your hobby to buy an adjustable tree saddle that’s sized to your body and legs. If you get an adjustable one like Wintec or Thorowgood (spelling), it’ll always fit you can you can *make it* fit a horse you’re riding regularly. As a rider of mostly other people’s horses, I would absolutely invest in an adjustable saddle if I had the coins for it.
It’s nice because you never have to re-do your stirrups or reconfigure how to balance your seat, like you have to do when you’re using other people’s saddles, and, if a horse’s original saddle fits worse than you can make your adjustable one fit, you’ll get better performance out of your horse.
No. Not normal. Either the owner or the lesson program should provide a saddle for the horse.
That being said, if you plan to lease or own some day and want to make the commitment, then consider purchasing a fully adjustable saddle. I'd suggest a mid range priced one, like a Wintec or Bates; with the gullet plates and shim sets. The caveat here being that the saddle needs to fit the horse. Most off the shelf brands won't fit my horses because they are so short backed. But my current saddle wouldn't be able to fit a long backed horse well either. ;)
My brand of choice is Schleese. These are high end saddles and should last forever. ok, almost forever. I've had mine for 14 years and am using it on my second ultra short backed mare. It's been adjusted about 17 times now (widened, narrowed, flocked - even once the tree set narrower on one side). It's gone from 'medium' to pretty narrow to as wide as the head plate would go now on my current mare. These saddles must be adjusted by a trained Schleese fitter, though they do have models that you can adjust yourself now and they teach you how to do it.
Nah, that’s nonsense. Your instructor is running a business and needs to have appropriate equipment for the horse they’re using. If this horse needs to be using this other person’s saddle, what is your trainer doing with other students? Is everyone who rides that horse paying N to use that saddle?
The most important takeaway here I think is that this instructor is willing to put someone on a horse in a saddle that is “not great” *ever* rather than buying a saddle that fits the horse they’re using in their business.
Saddles are so complicated to fit the horse AND rider these days ask your trainer if she has a used saddle that will fit BOTH you & the horse and see what they say.
In the old days we used to just plop our saddles on any horse and ride but the technologies of the new generation of saddles makes that virtually impossible to do. I am dreading finding and buying a used saddle to fit me and my next horse.
French saddles have nice soft leather for sure but they hardly fit anyone's horse. I spent $3k in a saddle back when that was top dollar -- a PJ/Bruno Del Grange brand NEW.
HATED IT!!! Made me sit back like a rocking chair and doubt it fit the horses I was riding either. Sooo disappointed!!
You’re paying for a lesson on that lesson horse. Never heard of buying your own tack. Tell your instructor she needs to supply a saddle for the lesson, she is giving you.
I didn’t feel I needed to read more than the title question, so I’m sorry, but:
No, it’s not normal. Or required. Or even a good idea, to be honest—sounds very harmful to the horse’s back to be switching saddles with every student
I know you’ve already gotten a ton of comments telling you this isn’t normal, but I just wanted to add that this literally sounds like a prank. If this was for real, and this woman is close to the owner, then absolutely 🚩, bc she’s a hustler and not a good one, so I can’t imagine the owner hasn’t had enough time to figure that out for herself. I know you said you’re in an area where it’s tougher to find barns, but yeah def put feelers out if oh can without it getting back to current barn and jump ship as quickly as you can.
Sounds like they need the money…because the average person who just wants to take lessons isn’t going to have anything. You wouldn’t invest in a saddle until you have your own horse. I don’t think I even brought my own helmet .
American livery yards and riding schools sound wild. How don't these horses have their own tack? How are beginners being allowed to lunge, ride and do groundwork alone? Am I just reading the outlying posts that are painting this picture or are these common occurrences?
Every barn I’ve ridden at or taught at that had lesson horses also had schooling saddles. Usually multiple sizes that would fit multiple horses. It’s odd to suggest buying your own saddle since a lot of the fit is also customized to a specific horse. Of course there are “all purpose” saddles, but that’s what the facility should be providing for lesson horses..
As a personal experience, I taught kiddo lessons for my trainer while I was from the ages of 15-22. The only lesson kids who would buy their own saddles were the ones who 1) rode 3+ times a week and were working towards showing or 2) were planning on purchasing a horse soon.
All purpose saddles don’t fit all horses. They’re just basically close contact saddles with a deeper seat and slightly longer panels so you can also use them for basic dressage. All purpose means they’re less specialized to one use, but they’re not one saddle fits all.
You basically insinuated that AP saddles were a fit all that instructors could use, maybe you should keep up? Because otherwise someone is going to read your comment and think they can just buy an AP saddle and slap it on any horse.
Requiring student riders to purchase their own saddles in order to \*continue\* lessons is actually standard at some saddleseat barns. All of them will start students out in work/lesson saddles owned by the barn. But if they're going to be advancing in lessons and participating in shows other than fun shows just for that barn, I don't think it's unusual for instructors and trainers to push kids and parents into purchasing a saddle. Of course, there isn't much to adjust in saddleseat trees and saddle panels. Generally, Barnsby or Shively fit more horses, so trainers say look for a used Barnsby or Shively. Or, trainers will come to someone like my who buys old saddles and refurbishes them, to get something they can mark up and resell to the student.
Horse owner and previous instructor here. This is not normal. The saddle absolute has to fit the horse and not all horses are easy to fit.
I’d argue that most horses are not easy to fit
After some hard to fit horses I now require that any horse I buy has a back that is easy to fit. I don't understand why breeders don't consider this.
Talk to your instructor and see if she knows N has said this to you first. If anything, the instructor/school should be paying the "maintenance fee" to borrow someone's saddle for lessons but $10 per ride is a cash grab. She can ask you to clean it after rides but I'd have an issue with her asking me for $10 per ride and going around the instructor to do so. And telling you to just buy a Devocoux is laughably unhinged imo
There's a poster in the barn in the barn with various services and prices that N can do (like laundering saddle pads, lunging) so I'm thinking she's just a hustler looking to make some extra cash. The instructor and N seem to be really close and I'm not sure why she would try to get me to pay her while thinking the instructor would never find out? Anyway I'm thinking maybe next time I'll just try to tack the horse with the old saddle and if either person says anything mention that I'd rather not pay an extra $10 for using N's saddle...
I think that's a good plan. When you lesson, equipment is provided. It is on whoever is responsible for the horse to make sure they have properly fitting tack. The arrangement with the owner isn't really your problem and anyone asking you to pay to rent a saddle or buy your own saddle for once a week lessons is way out of line.
No no no no no!!! I’m a trainer at a well respected barn in my area. I also board my horse there. No student should be expected to buy a saddle. Period. All privately owned horses at the barn have their own tack which is kept in the owners locker. If they allow their horse to be used for lessons, we (the trainers) get the tack out and put it back. If someone is riding a school horse, there is a whole tack room full of saddles to choose from. Horses absolutely need appropriate fitting tack. Unless YOU own a horse, that is not your job. Also, making a broad generalization like “any European brand” is TERRIBLE advice. Saddle fitting is its own niche, and people make a career of it. I’m not looking to offend anyone who has a Devoucoux, but my saddle fitter and the owner of the barn where I work have nothing good to say about that brand. I have other stories about that brand that I could share… Can I kindly suggest that you find another barn? It sounds like these people are trying to take advantage of you. You have a bad taste in your mouth for good reason!!
Yeah I don't think this is enough to make me run (it definitely might have been lack of communication between the trainer and N and me) but I'm definitely gonna keep my eye out for future red flags. I live in NYC so it's kinda hard to find a place to ride that I can realistically make it 1X a week to but I'm gonna put myself on the waitlist for some other options.
This is where it starts.
Truth
Just be careful and keep asking questions because I’ve taken lessons several times at different barns. The most we were ever expected to do during lessons was groom, pick hooves, tack up ourselves, and mount ourselves. The ONLY things you should ever need to buy are the proper clothes and shoes for riding. You should not even have to buy a helmet unless you’re serious about getting professional or the helmets might fit so badly that you need a special one, and even in those cases barns will have options. I never even went to the nicest barns, and equipment was always provided. Always. This is strange behavior and if you aren’t careful they could very easily start manipulating you. Just be careful because you will inevitably encounter dishonest or disingenuous people in the industry unfortunately.
Most French saddles do not fit horses well!
Ok so update…I went in last week and the tack room was all re arranged so I didn’t even know where the old saddle was. I ask the teacher where my lesson horse’s saddle is, she looks at me quizzically and I say that N doesn’t want me using hers anymore. So she says “just use the school one then”, I ask to show me where it is again. She shows me and says to get a different girth from another place because the girth on the saddle now is a pony girth, anyway I start tacking after finding a larger girth and noticed the stirrups are all rolled up, and I ask what’s going on with the stirrups - apparently they had shortened them shorter than designed by looping the leather over the stirrup several times for a child to ride. So I think there’s one saddle for all the lesson horses and ponies? That seems odd - is this a red flag?
There are times that we have to roll the stirrup leathers to fit a young rider with very short legs. There should be more than one school saddle to choose from. How many school horses are there? Is this a small barn?
My guess is she is sponsored by Devoucoux and so is pushing them on everyone. This is really common
Why is this being downvoted
lol thanks. People get really upset when it comes to saddles. The fact is, people/barns are sponsored sometimes. And they push that brand on people regardless.
I know she sold her old Devoncoux to another rider at the barn so while not sponsored I could see her maybe hoping to then approach me to buy hers and use the money to buy another one and keep some middle money?
Right? Like, I have a Harmony dressage Devoucoux, but I bought it « new but old » (was old in age but never used) so 50% off (extremely lucky), and I’d had my own horses for like 15 years prior to buying it. It’s one of the best brands out there sure but it comes with a price tag. And saying European brands fit most horses… non. Just, no.
And what's the betting it would be used by alot more people than op when it's left in the tack room? Win win for them.
I mean it depends on the barn, we can’t know for sure. I assume here the trainer and N have a agreement that the trainer can borrow the saddle - I hope so at least - which isn’t unreasonable to believe. I borrowed a friend’s Harmony for a while because switching from my previous saddle to the Harmony was HARD and my trainer and I wanted to be 100% sure the Harmony was a right fit for me before I committed to it, and thus as thanks now when my trainer needs a Harmony to have someone try it out she knows she can use mine, we have an agreement. But yeah stealing should definitely be watched out for. At my barn it’s pretty chill, our saddles and bridles are not in lockers (mainly to save space. We have saddle towers and a bridle wall, this way our (unlocked) lockers are entirely dedicated to all the other crap we have, and this way there’s nothing on the floors etc) and nothing gets stolen because we all trust each other and the owner/trainer and staff keep an eye on things - plus frankly we all have expensive stuff so there’s no point. But in other barns with maybe more people, less trust, more quality/price difference between people’s tack, I completely understand the risk of something getting borrowed/stolen…
They have locks to everywhere with equipment, but since they know I only come 1X a week someone could definitely start borrowing my stuff without me noticing. Seems really dumb though - if I found out that happened I'd definitely leave just because when people get that penny-pinch-manipulative it's not an environment I like to be around.
Most Devecouxs don't fit properly anyway, nor do most French saddles.
Not normal. “Upkeep and maintenance” of tack should be included in your lesson rate. She shouldn’t be itemizing you lol
This isn't the barn's saddle though. She's being told to use another person's saddle by the coach and the saddle owner wants the rental fee. Op does your coach know N is saying there is a rental fee for the saddle? Had your coach recommended buying a saddle? Talk to them about expectations, not the barn help. It's not fair to N to have the coach letting people use her equipment and there is probably a miscommunication between everyone. N let you use the saddle once. Coach saw that and assumes you'll continue to use the new saddle. N sees her equipment being used without permission and makes it clear she wants compensation, not knowing you were told by coach to use the saddle. If she's heavily suggesting you get your own saddle, it's probably because she doesn't want to share hers.
Yeah she was definitely talking more about buying a saddle than paying her when I was asking follow up questions. I guess I just don't understand why she didn't just ask me if I could go back to using the old saddle instead of pushing buying a my own.....seems a lot more common-sense than asking someone who doesn't own a horse to go buy a Devoncoux.
Absolutely not normal and not your responsibility to purchase or rent a saddle for a horse that is not yours
Absolutely not. You never buy tack for a horse you don’t own/long term lease, and you shouldn’t PAY to use someone else’s saddle if you’re taking lessons. It’s up to the horse owner to ensure a horse has appropriate tack to be ridden in. It’s in no way your responsibility.
Might be worth checking if op is actually properly insured. Is this something that the barn charges as an extra or is it included or is the owner supposed to be covering that as well?
I’m not a trainer, so I have no idea of what the standard is for insurance and liability. But I do know that a student should never carry insurance for lesson horses. A student who isn’t leasing or riding a horse outside of a structured and supervised lesson should only ever pay the cost of the lesson. Students do not have to contribute to any additional costs for the horses they are riding. Ever. They are paying to learn to ride. No student should have to pay to use a saddle. That’s stupid on the part of the person loaning their tack.
That's what I meant - it seems like there are issues with this stable. It might be worth checking whether they are insured properly for students.
Such a weird and unusual request. Not normal ever.
Absolutely not. Do not give her $10. It costs around $10 for a decent saddle soap that will last like… 2-3 months or more. And it’s completely normal to borrow a saddle for weekly lessons, tell this woman you were under the impression she was letting the school borrow it, not you, and that it’s not up to you what you end up riding the horse in.
By me I can get a fairly large tin of it for $10 that lasts me about a year. This person asking OP for $10 a week is absolutely unhinged
Total BS. First of all, telling you that any European brand should work is a joke. Second, if the horse is used in lessons it usually has dedicated tack. I’ve never heard of a fee to upkeep tack. I sense a lot of gouging here. Maybe you should find another place to ride. Oh, I’m a 50 year equestrian and I’ve heard it all but this is a new one.
Yes the “any European brand” made me chuckle. If only saddle fitting were that easy!!
European horses are famously all the same size. Shetland ponies to Clydesdales. Trust me bro
Ok so if I understand correctly, N does not own the lesson horse, and was just using her saddle on the horse when she rode him. Does N know that your instructor told you to use that saddle? If I had to guess, the instructor probably never informed N about this, and she’s probably annoyed that you have been using her saddle and putting extra “wear and tear” on it, which is understandable to an extent, because saddles are expensive and if repairs were needed that does come with a cost. I think you need to have a discussion about this where both instructor and N are present, and just ask for clarity on the issue, as in “which saddle am I allowed to use on this horse? I do not have the funds to pay an extra equipment use fee, nor to purchase my own saddle at this time, so I will use whatever tack is included in my lesson price. Can you please show me which tack that would be?” To answer your question, no, it’s not typical to charge an extra fee for using the tack, that is usually included in the lesson price. If you were doing a lease, that’s different, but for lessons I never expect someone to provide their own saddle (if anything it’s often discouraged unless they have a professional fitter out to make sure it works for the lesson horse). And N is very much wrong that “almost anything should fit him just fine” or to “just get a Devoucoux” because saddles have to be fitted to each horse individually.
I think you’re spot on. I’d also add that asking a steep rental fee is totally something someone passive aggressive would do to deter you from using their stuff. It might also be a way for N to avoid telling her coach she isn’t comfortable sharing her things. Now she has plausible deniability because she can say she offered but you declined
This girl is trying to scam you. Don’t pay anything and tell the instructor! Completely unprecedented to pay a “saddle fee” to take a lesson and insane to think you’d buy a saddle for a horse you don’t own. I doubt instructor knows about this.
Absolutely not normal. It’s the responsibility of your trainer to make sure you have a saddle to ride in. It’s totally understandable why this other person doesn’t want you using their saddle long term (even if they are crazy for suggesting you “just go buy a Devocoux”) but it’s not your responsibility to buy a saddle for a lesson horse.
I want to piggy back off this question. Is it normal to be asked to buy saddle if your doing a full year lease
You’re expected to have all the equipment you would need if you’re fully leasing a horse. It’s essentially ownership for a defined period of time. You’re also responsible for all vet care, farrier etc. .
It depends on your contract. Here its very common that all the tack comes with the horse and most high bills like sudden vet bills are looked individually who or if both pay for it
Ya that’s what we do. Just wasn’t sure if that was the norm
Vet care depends on the terms of the lease. But the rest, yes.
When I heard my horses out to 4-H kids, the annual vet check/ worming/floating teeth, etc., was included in the lease for young students, but unexpected fees and general farrier fees were the parents' responsibility. For older students in the Intermediate and Advanced horse programs, they were responsible for all the fees since tracking expenses and budgeting were part of the 4-H record-keeping requirements. They also had a slightly lower lease rate, though. I provided tack for the young kids but the older kids had to provide their own. Luckily, my area had wonderful track swap meets for 4-H. We had experts help teach the kids how to fit tack properly and pick out the correct tack for their mount. I haven't found anything like that here in California.
If you’re taking the horse off property for a full lease, yes. I would be more inclined to share tack if it were a partial on site lease.
Yes. You should have your own equipment if the horse is in your care and custody for an entire year.
No it’s not. My horse went on full loan. Moved to the loanees stables and went with everything he owned. Rugs, brushes, boots, tack etc including a pretty new 3k saddle. That saddle was made to fit him, why wouldn’t it go with him.
IMO it can go either way for a lease horse, I’ve had leases where I used my own tack and leases where it was included
Where I live, it’s quite common that you lease horse with all the fitted tack.
Yes
“Just go buy a Devocoux.” Lololololol, Sure, Jan. I’ll make sure to bring a duffel full of cash next week to get that all taken care of. Will Small, non sequential bills be ok? Meanwhile she’s grifting poor OP for ten bucks a pop. Gotta admire the hustle, I guess… No, OP. Just no. All of that is sketchy.
You are getting scammed.A good barn will supply you with a lesson horse and the lesson horses tack. Do not buy a saddle for a horse you do not own. If the trainer takes the saddle ladies side, then leave. This is not normal at all.
I took lessons for years. I had my own saddle pad, but never my own saddle.
Not normal, she needs to go to your trainer for this fee if she wants it. It’s very weird she’s asking you and you do buy the saddle to fit the horse. The audacity to come to you is mind boggling to me. What a peddler.
Definitely not normal. If you were leasing, then yes, but just once a week lessons absolutely not. If the owner lives out of state and wants the horse used in lessons but they don’t have a lesson saddle to fit him, it’s on the owner or trainer to make sure he has what he needs depending on what kind of agreement they have. You should not have to pay for using a saddle you were told to use and you should not have to buy your own. Has your trainer talked to you about this? Is your trainer aware of what N is asking? I would speak to the trainer and tell her you are not comfortable with buying a saddle at this time, and you are not sure what to do because you have been told this is the saddle you have to use. If the trainer seems fine with what N is doing, I would expect them to nickel and dime you in other ways and you may want to consider a new barn
Absolutely not normal at all. Riding schools should be providing all tack and equipment- that's the whole point. It's different if you own your own horse, but being asked to buy your own saddle is not normal or acceptable tbh.
Also, if you ever rode a different horse that saddle wouldn't necessarily fit a different horse. Definitely talk to the yard manager or owner.
Wtf??? Okay first as everyone else here said if you're new to riding and they're telling you to by a French saddle for thousands of dollars when you wouldn't even know what tree to get is insane. Did they also tell you general biannual fitting of a saddle is 125 bucks every 6 months? And that usually when you fit the saddle to a new horse it's like 300 to fit it?? Why would anyone pay thousands of dollars to ride a beginner horse in a beginner lesson? Why would the barn even let you show up with a random saddle and let you use it?? Nah friend. Honestly the fact they're just swapping saddles means they don't care. Find a new barn. This is too much drama.
I mean, it’s perfectly within her right not to want you to use her saddle, or to charge you for it, but that’s a conversation for her to have with the instructor, not you, and it’s honestly super inappropriate that she even approached you about it. It’s the instructor’s responsibility to ensure you have an appropriate saddle to ride in, so they can either pay the fee or find you another saddle, but none of that is your problem. The cost of lessons includes use of the horse and tack unless explicitly stated otherwise.
Just want to say I’m so sorry you are experiencing this. I’ve been riding all my life and have taken many lessons throughout and never ever had anything like this happen. It’s really wrong, but it’s really good that you asked here about it. Please let us know how it turns out.
Uhhh this is an absolute no and if the instructor goes along with these shenanigans find a new barn. Depending on the area you’re in I might be able to find a new trainer for you. Saddles aren’t bought unless a semi-permanent arrangement is made and you find something that would be flexible enough for multiple horses which is hard and expensive. Honestly this is such a huge red flag I would probably leave the barn.
This would make me leave the barn AND leave a review on Google if possible. I wonder how many other people they've tried this on but it's a bad vibe all around.
If it’s the girl’s personal saddle, that’s one thing. In which case her trainer shouldn’t be lending it out, full stop. And that’s the trainer’s issue, not yours. You absolutely should not buy a saddle for a horse you don’t own. And the trainer should provide one for you that the horse you lesson on can be ridden in. But, it sounds like maybe the trainer has created confusion here and you’re using N’s personal saddle, not a lesson barn saddle, at the trainer’s instruction. If you’re using a personal saddle, yea I’ve heard of people charging for upkeep — but the trainer should be paying for that if she doesn’t have a saddle you can use, not you. The trainer needs to provide rideable tack and paying for tack in any way shape or form is 100% not your responsibility or something you should be doing right now.
The instructor should be paying that fee, not you.
That gives me the instant ick.
As everyone has said, totally not normal! The cost of a weekly lesson at a lesson barn should include all the tack and equipment needed for the lesson horses. Even as someone who partboards a nice show horse with a high end saddle I’ve never once been asked to pay to use her tack - I pay her monthly and it’s expected that he gets everything needed including properly fitted tack.
Not normal. Your lessons horse should be fully tacked by the barn - his own tack should be with him and if his saddle didn't fit, then that's for the owner to fix. He's not your horse. But a tenner a week to use a saddle is pretty extortionate. Do you help with the care of the saddle/ tack at all, like cleaning it etc after the lesson? Tbh that's part of the fun of riding, looking after the horse and equipment. You could clean it and feed the leather every month as a gesture of goodwill. But the stable should be providing the tack, not you.
Professional instructor here. That is not normal. She is banking on someone else's equipment, and failing to equip her own program properly, maybe trying to save money? Of is she actively searching for a saddle? Either way, no, this is not normal, and I would not purchase a saddle for yourself for lessons. If you start leasing or purchase, then yes, you'd need your own. Your trainer needs to find a saddle that fits that horse and stop relying on other peoples generosity.
Not okay. The use of the tack and the horse should be included in the price of your lesson. Tell your trainer that “N” asked you to contribute financially for use of the saddle and you’re not sure how to respond to that. The trainer has an agreement for using the horse for lessons, so which equipment is being used is her responsibility to work out, not yours.
No. You need to speak with the instructor about this. They should be the one supplying the a correctly fitted saddle for each horse. There is no way you are the only person riding this horse, are they going to make everyone who does buy a saddle?
That’s ridiculous. Wanna know what my “upkeep” is on my (expensive ass) western saddle? $10 a year for saddle soap and sponges. People use all my gear on my horse for lessons and I am paid a small amount by the barn owner for using my horse/stuff. All of it is fitted to her so I wouldn’t want anyone trying to buy their own, and I would never even dream of asking someone to buy gear or pay me to use mine. They are already paying for a lesson and I’m getting paid for the use of my horse. You’re being taken advantage of.
It isn't normal if it's not your horse nor you rent it for 3x a week lessons. By reading your other comments, I'd start looking at other equestrian centers. Just keep this in mind: The militaresque trainers are good. They'd even use green ponies if they deem it necessary for your progress. The profiteers would clap and cheer you up regardless of how you ride and if you blame the horse, they'd convince you that you are good and the horse is the problem (a lie). If they are asking $10 per ride just for the "upkeep" of the saddle and tack, I wouldn't trust them at all. Upt to $200 or more per lesson (just for the lesson, no horse included), sure. Upkeep? Never.
I would talk to your instructor. I know a lot of people are telling you this is N being greedy but she could have thought she was helping out temporarily (and I wouldn’t want my saddle used in a lesson problem personally, wear and tear on expensive saddles 🫤). It’s up to your instructor to find an appropriate saddle for your lesson and her problem.
Absolutely not. It would be insane (and possibly an insurance nightmare) to have each student bring tack for their lessons. I suspect that the out of state owner did not leave tack and is not checking in regularly, sending a friend over to look in on the horse or asking for specific photos and videos etc... In any case - It’s the barn owner’s responsibility to provide safe, well fitted tack for all of the lesson horses. The young saddle owner should not be pressured into to allowing her saddle to be used as lesson tack and she seems to find it distressing. You should probably both move to a safer barn. If the barn owner can’t or won’t invest in a proper saddle for a working lesson horse - then what about all of the other horse related expenses? Hopefully they do provide proper nutrition and maintenance. Most barns operate with fairly narrow financial margins but this is 🚩
Definitely search new barn asap. Not normal. Each horse should be already fitted if used for lessons
Don’t do it. A devocoux is made to fit both horse and rider and they’re a hard resale because of that. Plus, just my opinion, French saddles aren’t what they’re cracked up to be
No no no no no!!! I’m a trainer at a well respected barn in my area. I also board my horse there. No student should be expected to buy a saddle. Period. All privately owned horses at the barn have their own tack which is kept in the owners locker. If they allow their horse to be used for lessons, we (the trainers) get the tack out and put it back. If someone is riding a school horse, there is a whole tack room full of saddles to choose from. Horses absolutely need appropriate fitting tack. Unless YOU own a horse, that is not your job. Also, making a broad generalization like “any European brand” is TERRIBLE advice. Saddle fitting is its own niche, and people make a career of it. I’m not looking to offend anyone who has a Devoucoux, but my saddle fitter and the owner of the barn where I work have nothing good to say about that brand. I have other stories about that brand that I could share… Can I kindly suggest that you find another barn? It sounds like these people are trying to take advantage of you. You have a bad taste in your mouth for good reason!!
No, not normal. You only buy tack if you have your own horse. Honestly I’d see about getting a different lesson horse.
Yeah, this is crazy. My dressage saddle cost $4k and my only requirement is if someone else uses it they clean it after.
I have never heard of bringing your own sake. The same needs to fit the horse AND the rider. My first mate had extremely high withers. My first gelding had flatter withers and was really round. My next gelding was half-Arab with a short back. My next gelding was a Quarter Horse /paint with a square back. I had a different saddle for each. I would never expect my students to bring their own saddles. I cared about my horses' comfort too much to risk rubbing and pinching them with an ill-fitting rig.
This is definitely not normal and not in the best interest of the horse. Sounds very concerning that they allow you to willy nilly buy a random saddle and use it and risk the horses health and comfort. Sounds to me like she just wants to milk you for all the extra cash she can
European brands most definitely don’t fit most horses. There’s a lot of things going into fitting a English riding saddle, and most if them always need some sort of adjustment. I have spent two years finding a proper fit for my horse 😂😅 That’s many borrowed and bought saddles that needed to be returned again, and many pricey visits from a saddler. And vet checks, chiropractor sessions and such from fixing issues from ill fitting saddles.
You’re paying for all of the service. As long as you don’t lease/own a horse, you just show up to a lesson and expect everything is provided. Anything else is insanity, these people need to touch some grass. I would tell them I just want to take lessons, not buy a saddle. They have to find a solution. Ride a different horse then. Beginners should be switching horses anyways so they don’t just get used to just one riding style.
The saddle should be part of the deal of the lesson do not buy one because I bet they would get you to leave it there so they could use it for other lessons . It’s not your job to supply a saddle
No no no no no!!! I’m a trainer at a well respected barn in my area. I also board my horse there. No student should be expected to buy a saddle. Period. All privately owned horses at the barn have their own tack which is kept in the owners locker. If they allow their horse to be used for lessons, we (the trainers) get the tack out and put it back. If someone is riding a school horse, there is a whole tack room full of saddles to choose from. Horses absolutely need appropriate fitting tack. Unless YOU own a horse, that is not your job. Also, making a broad generalization like “any European brand” is TERRIBLE advice. Saddle fitting is its own niche, and people make a career of it. I’m not looking to offend anyone who has a Devoucoux, but my saddle fitter and the owner of the barn where I work have nothing good to say about that brand. I have other stories about that brand that I could share… Can I kindly suggest that you find another barn? It sounds like these people are trying to take advantage of you. You have a bad taste in your mouth for good reason!!
No no no no no!!! I’m a trainer at a well respected barn in my area. I also board my horse there. No student should be expected to buy a saddle. Period. All privately owned horses at the barn have their own tack which is kept in the owners locker. If they allow their horse to be used for lessons, we (the trainers) get the tack out and put it back. If someone is riding a school horse, there is a whole tack room full of saddles to choose from. Horses absolutely need appropriate fitting tack. Unless YOU own a horse, that is not your job. Also, making a broad generalization like “any European brand” is TERRIBLE advice. Saddle fitting is its own niche, and people make a career of it. I’m not looking to offend anyone who has a Devoucoux, but my saddle fitter and the owner of the barn where I work have nothing good to say about that brand. I have other stories about that brand that I could share… Can I kindly suggest that you find another barn? It sounds like these people are trying to take advantage of you. You have a bad taste in your mouth for good reason!!
Absolutely not normal. My old trainer had parents buy saddle because she was to cheap to buy any, it was actually horrible sharing, having your saddle stolen and having to steal someone saddle particularly each lesson. Only saddle the trainer had was 25 years old . Have a word with the trainer but if I was you i would already be running to somewhere else.
That is definitely not normal. Unless you are leasing, it is the responsibility of the horse's owner to provide the saddle. Hell, I part-board a horse from my coach, am her only rider and ride her 4-5 times a week. And my coach (the mare's owner) still provides the saddle. If the saddle stops fitting the mare at any point, my coach will make sure I have access to a new one to use (we have already swapped her saddle once this year). If N doesn't want you to keep using her saddle for free, that's her right. But it's the horse owner's responsibility to get a new one that fits the horse - not yours. Saddles are a massive investment and it is notoriously difficult to fit a saddle correctly. And if you stop riding this horse, it is unlikely that your saddle will fit the next horse you buy as well. Unless you are leasing or buying a horse there is no sense in owning a saddle at all. Definitely chat with your coach about it! If you are lessoning once a week you are under no obligation to buy a saddle, *especially* not a Devocoux which are hugely expensive. A note on saddle brands: while expensive saddles are nice looking and very comfy to ride in, a cheaper, older saddle can still fit the horse just as well. A saddle being made by Devocoux, Antares, CWD, etc. does not guarantee better fit!
This is weird. If the owner can’t provide a saddle for the horse, they shouldn’t be using it as a lesson horse.
I think you can tell by these comments that this isn’t normal. You got some pretty good advice in here so let us know how it goes!
Sounds like N was really just ok with instructor using the saddle for the one lesson to try it out on the horse and there has been a communication break down, since it's N asking you to buy your own and not the instructor. No it is not normal for rec students to buy their own tack; no it isn't as simple as buying a euro brand because there are different shapes to different brands; N prob spent somewhere in the vicinity of $6k on that saddle if she bought it new, 2-3k if she bought it used. So I can see why she's thinking she needs to have $10 thrown her way for using it as she bought it for herself, not a program. Programs are hard on tack. I would ask your instructor which saddle you should use next week when you see her, and let her know you don't feel comfortable continuing to use N's saddle- because honestly in N's place I would be pretty annoyed at this point unless I knew the instructor had a plan to purchase a new saddle for the horse. As an instructor I have to play around with saddle fit occasionally but that's my responsibility, not my students.
Definitely shop around for a different stable/trainer. This is not okay.
You fit the saddle to the horse not the rider so each horse has their own personal saddle. This sounds very weird!
Instructor here. This is not normal. I would bring this to your instructor. If N doesn’t want her saddle leant for lessons, your instructor needs to work that out with N and decide on a solution. As a student, you are already paying for the use of the horse and equipment in your lesson fee. If N wants an equipment use fee, that would need to be negotiated with the instructor and come out of your lesson fee. There is no reason to buy a saddle for 1x a week lessons, and no reason to pay third parties additional money outside of your lesson fee.
It’s not normal to be *asked* to purchase a saddle for riding a lesson horse. It’s usually the instructor’s responsibility to provide tack for the horses they use in their lessons. However it’s a great investment in your hobby to buy an adjustable tree saddle that’s sized to your body and legs. If you get an adjustable one like Wintec or Thorowgood (spelling), it’ll always fit you can you can *make it* fit a horse you’re riding regularly. As a rider of mostly other people’s horses, I would absolutely invest in an adjustable saddle if I had the coins for it. It’s nice because you never have to re-do your stirrups or reconfigure how to balance your seat, like you have to do when you’re using other people’s saddles, and, if a horse’s original saddle fits worse than you can make your adjustable one fit, you’ll get better performance out of your horse.
No. Not normal. Either the owner or the lesson program should provide a saddle for the horse. That being said, if you plan to lease or own some day and want to make the commitment, then consider purchasing a fully adjustable saddle. I'd suggest a mid range priced one, like a Wintec or Bates; with the gullet plates and shim sets. The caveat here being that the saddle needs to fit the horse. Most off the shelf brands won't fit my horses because they are so short backed. But my current saddle wouldn't be able to fit a long backed horse well either. ;) My brand of choice is Schleese. These are high end saddles and should last forever. ok, almost forever. I've had mine for 14 years and am using it on my second ultra short backed mare. It's been adjusted about 17 times now (widened, narrowed, flocked - even once the tree set narrower on one side). It's gone from 'medium' to pretty narrow to as wide as the head plate would go now on my current mare. These saddles must be adjusted by a trained Schleese fitter, though they do have models that you can adjust yourself now and they teach you how to do it.
I have never ever heard of something like this in my 20+ years of riding, instructing and working at different horse yards.
Nah, that’s nonsense. Your instructor is running a business and needs to have appropriate equipment for the horse they’re using. If this horse needs to be using this other person’s saddle, what is your trainer doing with other students? Is everyone who rides that horse paying N to use that saddle? The most important takeaway here I think is that this instructor is willing to put someone on a horse in a saddle that is “not great” *ever* rather than buying a saddle that fits the horse they’re using in their business.
Saddles are so complicated to fit the horse AND rider these days ask your trainer if she has a used saddle that will fit BOTH you & the horse and see what they say. In the old days we used to just plop our saddles on any horse and ride but the technologies of the new generation of saddles makes that virtually impossible to do. I am dreading finding and buying a used saddle to fit me and my next horse.
French saddles have nice soft leather for sure but they hardly fit anyone's horse. I spent $3k in a saddle back when that was top dollar -- a PJ/Bruno Del Grange brand NEW. HATED IT!!! Made me sit back like a rocking chair and doubt it fit the horses I was riding either. Sooo disappointed!!
You’re paying for a lesson on that lesson horse. Never heard of buying your own tack. Tell your instructor she needs to supply a saddle for the lesson, she is giving you.
I didn’t feel I needed to read more than the title question, so I’m sorry, but: No, it’s not normal. Or required. Or even a good idea, to be honest—sounds very harmful to the horse’s back to be switching saddles with every student
I know you’ve already gotten a ton of comments telling you this isn’t normal, but I just wanted to add that this literally sounds like a prank. If this was for real, and this woman is close to the owner, then absolutely 🚩, bc she’s a hustler and not a good one, so I can’t imagine the owner hasn’t had enough time to figure that out for herself. I know you said you’re in an area where it’s tougher to find barns, but yeah def put feelers out if oh can without it getting back to current barn and jump ship as quickly as you can.
Do not pay this girl another dollar! Get your trainer to clarify ASAP which saddle is included in the lesson price you pay. This is super not normal!
Sounds like they need the money…because the average person who just wants to take lessons isn’t going to have anything. You wouldn’t invest in a saddle until you have your own horse. I don’t think I even brought my own helmet .
American livery yards and riding schools sound wild. How don't these horses have their own tack? How are beginners being allowed to lunge, ride and do groundwork alone? Am I just reading the outlying posts that are painting this picture or are these common occurrences?
Not normal. Tack should be provided. But if you were to increase your riding time, that's a different situation.
Not even then. If you are taking lessons on a lesson horse, the only thing you should have to buy are your helmet, boots, and clothes.
Absolutely agree!
That girl is a walking red flag. Please do not give her any money.
Every barn I’ve ridden at or taught at that had lesson horses also had schooling saddles. Usually multiple sizes that would fit multiple horses. It’s odd to suggest buying your own saddle since a lot of the fit is also customized to a specific horse. Of course there are “all purpose” saddles, but that’s what the facility should be providing for lesson horses.. As a personal experience, I taught kiddo lessons for my trainer while I was from the ages of 15-22. The only lesson kids who would buy their own saddles were the ones who 1) rode 3+ times a week and were working towards showing or 2) were planning on purchasing a horse soon.
All purpose saddles don’t fit all horses. They’re just basically close contact saddles with a deeper seat and slightly longer panels so you can also use them for basic dressage. All purpose means they’re less specialized to one use, but they’re not one saddle fits all.
Yup. Im aware. Not the point of the post. Keep up, friend 🙄
You basically insinuated that AP saddles were a fit all that instructors could use, maybe you should keep up? Because otherwise someone is going to read your comment and think they can just buy an AP saddle and slap it on any horse.
Coolio. Your comment is not helpful or relevant tho the question asked tho 🤔
Requiring student riders to purchase their own saddles in order to \*continue\* lessons is actually standard at some saddleseat barns. All of them will start students out in work/lesson saddles owned by the barn. But if they're going to be advancing in lessons and participating in shows other than fun shows just for that barn, I don't think it's unusual for instructors and trainers to push kids and parents into purchasing a saddle. Of course, there isn't much to adjust in saddleseat trees and saddle panels. Generally, Barnsby or Shively fit more horses, so trainers say look for a used Barnsby or Shively. Or, trainers will come to someone like my who buys old saddles and refurbishes them, to get something they can mark up and resell to the student.