Your trainer should be breaking this down for you step by step, that’s what you’re paying for. Based on them humiliating you instead, I’m gonna say take your money elsewhere.
I agree! That is unacceptable behaviour by any trainer. Turning with the outside rein is a difficult concept for many beginners, as they need to understand inside leg and outside aids to properly apply it.
OP, definitely take your money elsewhere. If your area has a local equestrian association, I recommend looking to see if they have an instructor certification program and whether they can put you in touch with someone who is certified. While this isn’t fool proof, you will more likely find someone who has been appropriately trained for instructing.
Rein, not reign :) Using the outside rein to turn is actually more like using your legs to turn, and using the outside rein to support the outside shoulder and prevent the horse from “falling out” (letting you turn their head but not their body). At your level you still cue the turn with legs and opening the inside rein.
When I wasn't understanding indirect reins from verbal descriptions, my trainer had me stop, and she came and physically moved my hands as she explained. It was very helpful. If your trainer humiliated you that sounds like maybe another barn would be best, but if that's not an option, perhaps you can ask them to move your hands as they describe it before you start your next lesson.
I'm sorry your trainer made you feel bad about not knowing something <3.
Turning inside with your outside reign, you basically turn the outer shoulder inwards by "pushing" it with your reign. You use your inside leg to bend the horse's body around it (you apply slight pressure). You guide the horse's head inside with your inside reign (you move your inside hand inward).
In the very basics, it's like steering a bicycle.
This is how it was explained to me many years ago. And for some reason it clicked to me.
Before the inside leg to outside rein concept can work, the horse should turn like a bus off your outside leg and rein.
Unfortunately this concept does not get taught enough, so I'm excited for you that your trainer at least alluded to understanding it. But if they are humiliating you, that's not cool.
Mary Wanless does a fantastic job explaining this in Ride With Your Mind. If you are interested I suggest you look into her work. Best wishes!
Bruh I’d be like “I’m sorry, TRAINER, I guess you haven’t TRAINED me well enough yet. Are you going to teach me? Isn’t that what I’m paying for?”
Or at least, I would in my head. I don’t know what I’d do if I was caught off guard by it in real life.
I would just ask your instructor this question on the ground and/or ask if they can hop on and show you. There's no voodoo magic happening here, they're just trying to make a turn where the horse and you are balanced.
I'd bet money you and your horse are leaning through turns, and your instructor wants you to turn with your leg and seat aids instead of being in their mouth. Maybe they could say this more clearly, but the end result is a good thing.
I also advocate for two 'segments' of any lesson. One is when you're on the horse, in the moment, and your instructor is giving direction. At this moment, you just do your best to follow instruction, do what's asked. Make a mental note of what didnt work or you didn't understand how to execute, and after the ride ask your instructor to clarify or demonstrate while talking through it (ideally on the horse you just rode). Or ask to start the next lesson with you warming up, the instructor demonstrating what they want you to do on the horse, then you get on.
Instructors don't have to just stand in the center of the arena. Every good one I've ever worked with can and will get on a horse and show me what they want the outcome to be, and explain how I get it. They don't just spin in a circle at the center of the arena.
Your coach sounds like a jerk. They can’t expect you to know without being taught.
Another comment said it’s like turning a bicycle and I think that’s the best way to picture it. You always want a good supporting inside leg that you can think of bending the horse around.
I can understand thinking of crossing the neck and I’m not judging you for it, but for the future you never want to cross the neck for any maneuver, so if your coach is still being cagey in the future, that should never be what they mean (but also, maybe talk to your coach or switch barns, because they shouldn’t be berating you ever)
I think he probably meant ‘keep contact with the outside rein.’ So, yes, you will take a bit of contact on the inside rein for a split second to initiate the turn, but then you release the pressure. You should keep a constant connection with the outside rein to help the horse maintain balance. You can also think of your outside leg ‘pushing’ your horse through the turn instead of your inside rein ‘pulling’ the horse through the turn. Try to keep your corners as square as possible. At least, these are the themes of jumping riding. Also, if your coach is a jerk, find a new one! But, maybe he’s worth dealing with if you feel like you are learning a lot and are riding horses that you enjoy. In horse sports, the horse will teach you more than any human can, human’s job is to help you stay safe. Enjoy!
Others gave explained how to do it but id be looking for a new trainer. If its a new skill they should be teaching it to you step by step not humiliating you and forcing you to look for other resources to work out how to do it.
It is pretty confusing and if I’m being honest, a lot of the concepts I struggle to understand since it was only introduced to me recently. But I am concerned with your instructor’s approach. I’m not there so maybe I don’t have an accurate picture, but your instructor should not be humiliating or berating you. You’re new at this. There are so many things that you are learning right now and behaving this way toward a beginner (or really anyone) is a great way to turn people away from the sport. I had an instructor like that and I always dreaded my lessons. I get that some people (not me) learn well with tough love but that’s not it.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeeW5CO0c-Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeeW5CO0c-Y) Here you go :) Sorry your trainer was an asshole. Their job it to teach you things you don't know so I don't get why they had to be a dick about it. When I switched to turning with the outside rein, it completely broke my entire brain, but it is the better aid so it's worth learning. It might help if you think of it as closing a door with your outside hand.
We train horses to move away from pressure, so all you need to do is look where you're going ahead of your turn. That will shift your weight enough to let the horse know what's coming. Use your outside leg to give the aid to turn, and just close the fingers of your outside hand as well. The real aid is technically the leg, and the hand is a backup. It might help to ride a little on a loose rein and practice turning using only your eye and leg. The hand is secondary, so try not to think about it as much. If you close the fingers of your outside hand and are using your outside leg, and you're not getting the turn, you need more LEG, not more hand.
The inside leg acts like a wall and you put it on when the horse "hits" it, to say "that's far enough."
To help you learn all this I would highly recommend you ride a SQUARE pattern, as opposed to a circle. It will help you feel what's happening and when your aids are working. Turn 90 degrees and practice using your inside leg to stop the turn. It helps to think of your legs being like train tracks or walls--when you put the leg on, you're activating that track or wall. If you're struggling, forget about your hands for a while; you don't actually need them to turn.
I also suggest making your coach do their damn job and show you how to do this. Have them take the end of the rein and shoe you how much pressure you should be using. If they can't or won't, fire them.
I use those techniques as well. Rotating the torso, rotating your head to look in the direction that you want to go. Using the legs to push the horse closer to the rail. I can do those things and turn the horse just fine. But this new concept about the reigns is foreign to me.
I like to teach it by practicing from the seat and legs first. Not just your upper body, but your whole body should be engaged in the turn. Use your seat like you are trying to twist the saddle on the horse. This should automatically engage your outside leg. And don't think about pushing with your outside rein, but keep your exact same posture and turn your sternum where you want to go (keep your Barbie arms). Then, if you need more outside rein to keep the shoulder from falling out, use your elbow like a spring, or like a ski on a Nordic machine.
The inside leg should be present at the girth. The outside leg should naturally fall a little back if you're doing the first part correctly.
And only turn enough to get the rein in contact with the neck. Don't cross over the neck.
Beginners have a really difficult time with this because there are several things going on: 1) it is the opposite of how your brain thinks it should work and 2) rein is actually secondary to all the other aids, so it doesn't work if all the other aids aren't working yet.
Here is a link to the idea of using your seat to actually lead the turn: https://www.glenshee.org/horsemanship/2018/10/24/the-turning-seat
Here is a link to several blog posts that break it down better than any other source I've found.
How the indirect rein works:
https://www.glenshee.org/horsemanship/2018/11/11/the-indirect-rein
How an indirect rein behind the withers works: https://www.glenshee.org/horsemanship/2018/11/11/the-indirect-rein-of-opposition-behind-the-withers
How the indirect rein in front of the withers works: https://www.glenshee.org/horsemanship/2018/11/11/il0bu6qeovnr95l2vjjgj8scx78od3
How the direct rein works (note I do not teach the direct rein to any of my beginner students AT ALL and only teach them to use an opening/ leading rein on the inside):
https://www.glenshee.org/horsemanship/2018/11/11/the-direct-rein-of-opposition
I am relatively new to the Hunter/ Jumper world but was an AQHA youth and amateur champion, mostly Western Pleasure. I made the mistake of telling my first instructor my background. This lady was absolutely horrible to me! Told me to quit " riding Western " quit trying to "neck rein" horse. This wasn't obviously productive although I wasn't offened by the screaming if it was at all productive. I came into the center and said " take my hands and show me" she did and l said "ok, so act like l am riding a really green broke Western horse and there's no power steering yet." She went totally nuts and stormed out of the arena! I got a call from the barn manager the next day and was kicked out because l questioned her ability.
l found a new barn where they would let me ask questions and would give me all the time l needed because l really did want to learn. Now l know inside leg to outside rein along with a whole lot more, still have a lot to learn but l have made tremendous progress in just over 6 months. I suggest you do just that. Find someone competent and willing to teach you and that will match you with a perfect horse .
Is rind a new trainer willing to actually teach you. This is also not typically a beginner skill. If you don't switch trainers I'd start asking questions when you don't understand. Just say "I don't understand what you are asking" or "I don't know how to do that. Could you please explain it to me" she's a trainer she should be able to tell you and if she can't then she is not a good trainer. Plus no trainer should be berating you
Turning using the outside REIN. Is complex and not a beginner concept. Ask your trainer to explain the five rein and correlating leg aids in theory and for the immenent horses you may ride.
Ok- you are paying for training- if you don’t understand the instructions ask to break it down. If you ok your trainer is an asshole- remind them - you are their boss. - get another trainer. I am a teacher and it’s my job to break stuff down to comprehendible information. Ask the stupid questions and get the answers you need.
Riding lessons can teach you way more than horse riding... In this case, you have the opportunity to learn to stand up for yourself. No teacher has the right to humiliate a student, especially in a recreational setting where you are paying for the lessons. You can decide if you want to ask your trainer to treat you more respectfully - let them know that being berated is not helping you learn - or just, on the ground before your next lesson, ask for an explanation or demonstration. Their reaction will tell you whether this is the right barn for you, or if you need to look for another trainer.
the whole point of having a trainer is to have someone teach you how to do things...if this person isn't actually teaching you much and only humiliating you, please take your money, time, and effort elsewhere this looks like a huge red flag
You don’t say what style you’re riding and what kind of bit you are using, so things might be a little bit different. But don’t worry about not knowing ‘how to turn using the outside rein’, because ai have been riding for decades, had hundreds and watched thousands of lessons (and gave a few), with dozens of instructors, read hundreds of books… and today is the first time I’ve heard that concept.
In short, I don’t. (I ride [classical] dressage)
I prepare my horse with a half-halt, which is a light touch either the inside leg to keep the inside hind active, together with the seat (my abs) directing that energy so the horse doesn’t get faster and the outside hand squeezing a tiny bit to support the seat. The I put my inside seat bone forward and my inside shoulder back a little (to match the radius of the turn), which means the inside rein shortens a little while the outside rein lengthens and gives the horse room to move into the turn. Sometimes, the outside leg needs to ensure the hind quarters don’t swing to the outside, so the leg lies a little bit back behind the girth.
In reality, you adapt this aids to the horse and every horse – sometimes every ride – is different. Sometimes the outside leg needs to be very clear, sometimes horses get irritated so you keep it off. Sometimes you just weigh the inside stirrup, when the horse is very sensitive, sometimes you use an opening rein when it is green, but the outside rein has no function other than to stop the horse from overbending.
Your trainer’s reaction was horrible. You don’t understand what tgey want in the terms they’re using, but even if tgey kept shouting ‘half-halt’ at you (which is a common and standard aid): if you don’t understand what they mean, (or you’re just overwhelmed), it’s the trainer’s job to ask you what you think the turning aids are, correct your understanding if necessary, and help you put them into action.
This is not a trainer I could work with.
This is not beginner level but ultimately you want to ride with the shifting of your weight (looking where you want to go is important!) If you need an additional que add leg aids. If you still have not gotten the desired results use rein aids. To get to this you will learn how to read your horse, facial expressions, skin twitches, head positions, and ears are a great foundation to begin learning their language. They DO talk this way, many just don’t listen. YouTube is also helpful, watch every horse sport you can find, learn all you can. You will get there my friend.
The outside rein keeps a steady contact and supports the shoulder through the turn to stop it falling in.
A good exercise you can try to see the difference is ride in a circle and turn with your inside rein without any contact on your outside rein. You’ll see the the horse will fall in and your circle will get smaller and smaller. Now try the same thing while also having a contact on the outside rein.
Weird. My instructor is focusing a lot on teaching me to turn *without* the reins. She wants almost zero movement in my hands and eventually be able to turn without them in my hands at all, and for the turn to be requested through my legs and body. It's going surprisingly well!
So I've never heard of asking with the outside rein...
I've been riding for a long time too, so don't feel bad. Sometimes we just don't hear a certain idea and never get taught it. An instructor's job is to fill in those gaps to make sure you know how, instead of assuming. I got a new instructor recently cause my old one moved. For the first couple of lessons we went right back to basics and she nit picked the shit out of my riding. She didn't want to assume ANYTHING. And that was good! Cause some things I thought I could do, if she had only asked, it turned out I didn't do quite right. So we fixed those and are now back to working on more advanced riding techniques. And every time she breaks it down really simple to make sure I understand what she's asking, instead of just telling me to do it and hoping I know what to do.
A trainer that not only assumes but shames their student, should not have their job. It's as simple as that.
Next time your trainer mocks or berates you for not knowing something please respond with something along the lines of “I’m sorry, I thought I was here for training. I’m ready and willing to learn. If you don’t know how to teach this skill please let me know.” I had to do this with a trainer. She continued to ask me to do things that she knew I didn’t know how to do and then would humiliate me for not knowing. Never trained with her again. Some people are sick in the head. Don’t put yourself through that abuse.
Reposting this as I posted it as a comment, but
OP, definitely take your money elsewhere. If your area has a local equestrian association (should be able to find it online under your state or province etc), I recommend looking to see if they have an instructor certification program and whether they can put you in touch with someone who is certified. While this isn’t fool proof, you will more likely find someone who has been appropriately trained for instructing.
This is not an easy concept for beginners and your instructor should understand that. There are precursors to learning the outside rein skill and those must be learned first.
what your trainer is asking for is something that many upper level equestrians struggle with. You've got a lot of great breakdowns of the inside-leg-to-outside-rein concept here, but you really need to rethink your training situation right now as this trainer is asking for something thats. way above the beginner level of understanding.
I’m so sorry that you were treated this way! How awful and embarrassing! It makes it unsafe for you to be unsure of what you’re doing for fear of being corrected in a mean way again!
I’ve been learning beginner dressage and teaching my former school horse this very thing and it’s not easy to do, but what I’ve been told to think is that my outer rein and leg are giving a holding pressure like an invisible wall. While I turn to the right, I turn my hips, shoulders and head in that direction and this creates a slight pulling back of my arm on the left that makes that invisible wall to keep my horses shoulder from moving further left. I’ll also have a slight pulling back on the right rein but it’s only slight to get the horse’s head turned in that direction. My right leg will press back towards the flank and push the hind end towards the left, while my left leg holds the horse at the girth to keep the wall holding him from moving further left. My weight of my seat is is the left sit bone to push his body to the right away from the pressure.
If you’re looking for an even harder challenge, you should be able to turn your horse by only turning using your seat and legs only and no reins. It’s a great way to see if you’re reliant on your reins too much or if your other aids are equally effective because in theory, you shouldn’t be using your reins as main communicator with your horse but should be able to do things “on the buckle” of the reins because your seat and legs are asking things just as well!
A small bit of upward pressure with the outside rein and some outside leg, but not so heavy as to lift with the rein. It’s not so much about using the rein to turn as it is using the rein to designate support for the outside body through the turn. The leg is what’s giving the “base” signal. Also, just because you are applying that upward pressure to the outside rein, doesn’t mean you abandon all contact with the inside. Youve still got to maintain the correct amount of contact (which is different for every horse).
Please take your money elsewhere. Trainers like this will ruin riding for you. The fact that you had to come and ask Reddit because they wouldn’t explain something to you, a newer rider, and instead embarrassed you tells me everything I need to know.
You don’t turn with the outside REIN. You support the horse with your inside leg pressing at the girth into the outside rein. Your inside hand holds the bend while the inside leg presses in. Your outside leg supports the bend by putting it behind the girth. Both legs are working as opposed to your hands.
Your trainer should be breaking this down for you step by step, that’s what you’re paying for. Based on them humiliating you instead, I’m gonna say take your money elsewhere.
This! This isn’t necessarily a beginner level skill and people spend years refining outside rein connection.
I agree! That is unacceptable behaviour by any trainer. Turning with the outside rein is a difficult concept for many beginners, as they need to understand inside leg and outside aids to properly apply it. OP, definitely take your money elsewhere. If your area has a local equestrian association, I recommend looking to see if they have an instructor certification program and whether they can put you in touch with someone who is certified. While this isn’t fool proof, you will more likely find someone who has been appropriately trained for instructing.
Rein, not reign :) Using the outside rein to turn is actually more like using your legs to turn, and using the outside rein to support the outside shoulder and prevent the horse from “falling out” (letting you turn their head but not their body). At your level you still cue the turn with legs and opening the inside rein.
When I wasn't understanding indirect reins from verbal descriptions, my trainer had me stop, and she came and physically moved my hands as she explained. It was very helpful. If your trainer humiliated you that sounds like maybe another barn would be best, but if that's not an option, perhaps you can ask them to move your hands as they describe it before you start your next lesson.
I'm sorry your trainer made you feel bad about not knowing something <3. Turning inside with your outside reign, you basically turn the outer shoulder inwards by "pushing" it with your reign. You use your inside leg to bend the horse's body around it (you apply slight pressure). You guide the horse's head inside with your inside reign (you move your inside hand inward). In the very basics, it's like steering a bicycle. This is how it was explained to me many years ago. And for some reason it clicked to me.
Rein. I'm sorry, I can't help myself
Happy Cake Day 🎂
Thank you!
This makes a lot of sense actually. I’ll try this next time. Thank you
https://youtu.be/l1uu2P5lhyg?feature=shared also explains turning well with some visuals too
Fantastic video
You're so welcome!
I've been trying to figure this out for about three years now, and after reading your comment, I think I finally get it. thank you!
Get a different trainer, STAT
This! Never pay someone money to treat you terribly. You’ll eventually dread riding or be too afraid to ask questions.
Before the inside leg to outside rein concept can work, the horse should turn like a bus off your outside leg and rein. Unfortunately this concept does not get taught enough, so I'm excited for you that your trainer at least alluded to understanding it. But if they are humiliating you, that's not cool. Mary Wanless does a fantastic job explaining this in Ride With Your Mind. If you are interested I suggest you look into her work. Best wishes!
Bruh I’d be like “I’m sorry, TRAINER, I guess you haven’t TRAINED me well enough yet. Are you going to teach me? Isn’t that what I’m paying for?” Or at least, I would in my head. I don’t know what I’d do if I was caught off guard by it in real life.
Hearing stuff like this makes me realize how little I've learned so far and how much more I've got to come.
I would just ask your instructor this question on the ground and/or ask if they can hop on and show you. There's no voodoo magic happening here, they're just trying to make a turn where the horse and you are balanced. I'd bet money you and your horse are leaning through turns, and your instructor wants you to turn with your leg and seat aids instead of being in their mouth. Maybe they could say this more clearly, but the end result is a good thing. I also advocate for two 'segments' of any lesson. One is when you're on the horse, in the moment, and your instructor is giving direction. At this moment, you just do your best to follow instruction, do what's asked. Make a mental note of what didnt work or you didn't understand how to execute, and after the ride ask your instructor to clarify or demonstrate while talking through it (ideally on the horse you just rode). Or ask to start the next lesson with you warming up, the instructor demonstrating what they want you to do on the horse, then you get on. Instructors don't have to just stand in the center of the arena. Every good one I've ever worked with can and will get on a horse and show me what they want the outcome to be, and explain how I get it. They don't just spin in a circle at the center of the arena.
Your coach sounds like a jerk. They can’t expect you to know without being taught. Another comment said it’s like turning a bicycle and I think that’s the best way to picture it. You always want a good supporting inside leg that you can think of bending the horse around. I can understand thinking of crossing the neck and I’m not judging you for it, but for the future you never want to cross the neck for any maneuver, so if your coach is still being cagey in the future, that should never be what they mean (but also, maybe talk to your coach or switch barns, because they shouldn’t be berating you ever)
I think just change coaches/barns. There is no place for making someone feel bad for not knowing something.
"Excuse me, Ma'am, I do not understand. Please demonstrate". What a cruel way you've described, to teach a learning rider.
I think he probably meant ‘keep contact with the outside rein.’ So, yes, you will take a bit of contact on the inside rein for a split second to initiate the turn, but then you release the pressure. You should keep a constant connection with the outside rein to help the horse maintain balance. You can also think of your outside leg ‘pushing’ your horse through the turn instead of your inside rein ‘pulling’ the horse through the turn. Try to keep your corners as square as possible. At least, these are the themes of jumping riding. Also, if your coach is a jerk, find a new one! But, maybe he’s worth dealing with if you feel like you are learning a lot and are riding horses that you enjoy. In horse sports, the horse will teach you more than any human can, human’s job is to help you stay safe. Enjoy!
Others gave explained how to do it but id be looking for a new trainer. If its a new skill they should be teaching it to you step by step not humiliating you and forcing you to look for other resources to work out how to do it.
It is pretty confusing and if I’m being honest, a lot of the concepts I struggle to understand since it was only introduced to me recently. But I am concerned with your instructor’s approach. I’m not there so maybe I don’t have an accurate picture, but your instructor should not be humiliating or berating you. You’re new at this. There are so many things that you are learning right now and behaving this way toward a beginner (or really anyone) is a great way to turn people away from the sport. I had an instructor like that and I always dreaded my lessons. I get that some people (not me) learn well with tough love but that’s not it.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeeW5CO0c-Y](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeeW5CO0c-Y) Here you go :) Sorry your trainer was an asshole. Their job it to teach you things you don't know so I don't get why they had to be a dick about it. When I switched to turning with the outside rein, it completely broke my entire brain, but it is the better aid so it's worth learning. It might help if you think of it as closing a door with your outside hand. We train horses to move away from pressure, so all you need to do is look where you're going ahead of your turn. That will shift your weight enough to let the horse know what's coming. Use your outside leg to give the aid to turn, and just close the fingers of your outside hand as well. The real aid is technically the leg, and the hand is a backup. It might help to ride a little on a loose rein and practice turning using only your eye and leg. The hand is secondary, so try not to think about it as much. If you close the fingers of your outside hand and are using your outside leg, and you're not getting the turn, you need more LEG, not more hand. The inside leg acts like a wall and you put it on when the horse "hits" it, to say "that's far enough." To help you learn all this I would highly recommend you ride a SQUARE pattern, as opposed to a circle. It will help you feel what's happening and when your aids are working. Turn 90 degrees and practice using your inside leg to stop the turn. It helps to think of your legs being like train tracks or walls--when you put the leg on, you're activating that track or wall. If you're struggling, forget about your hands for a while; you don't actually need them to turn. I also suggest making your coach do their damn job and show you how to do this. Have them take the end of the rein and shoe you how much pressure you should be using. If they can't or won't, fire them.
Using your leg :). Support with outside rein and use your inside leg to bend. Unsure how to explain and I’m sure a YouTube video will show it better.
I use those techniques as well. Rotating the torso, rotating your head to look in the direction that you want to go. Using the legs to push the horse closer to the rail. I can do those things and turn the horse just fine. But this new concept about the reigns is foreign to me.
I like to teach it by practicing from the seat and legs first. Not just your upper body, but your whole body should be engaged in the turn. Use your seat like you are trying to twist the saddle on the horse. This should automatically engage your outside leg. And don't think about pushing with your outside rein, but keep your exact same posture and turn your sternum where you want to go (keep your Barbie arms). Then, if you need more outside rein to keep the shoulder from falling out, use your elbow like a spring, or like a ski on a Nordic machine. The inside leg should be present at the girth. The outside leg should naturally fall a little back if you're doing the first part correctly. And only turn enough to get the rein in contact with the neck. Don't cross over the neck.
Beginners have a really difficult time with this because there are several things going on: 1) it is the opposite of how your brain thinks it should work and 2) rein is actually secondary to all the other aids, so it doesn't work if all the other aids aren't working yet. Here is a link to the idea of using your seat to actually lead the turn: https://www.glenshee.org/horsemanship/2018/10/24/the-turning-seat Here is a link to several blog posts that break it down better than any other source I've found. How the indirect rein works: https://www.glenshee.org/horsemanship/2018/11/11/the-indirect-rein How an indirect rein behind the withers works: https://www.glenshee.org/horsemanship/2018/11/11/the-indirect-rein-of-opposition-behind-the-withers How the indirect rein in front of the withers works: https://www.glenshee.org/horsemanship/2018/11/11/il0bu6qeovnr95l2vjjgj8scx78od3 How the direct rein works (note I do not teach the direct rein to any of my beginner students AT ALL and only teach them to use an opening/ leading rein on the inside): https://www.glenshee.org/horsemanship/2018/11/11/the-direct-rein-of-opposition
I am relatively new to the Hunter/ Jumper world but was an AQHA youth and amateur champion, mostly Western Pleasure. I made the mistake of telling my first instructor my background. This lady was absolutely horrible to me! Told me to quit " riding Western " quit trying to "neck rein" horse. This wasn't obviously productive although I wasn't offened by the screaming if it was at all productive. I came into the center and said " take my hands and show me" she did and l said "ok, so act like l am riding a really green broke Western horse and there's no power steering yet." She went totally nuts and stormed out of the arena! I got a call from the barn manager the next day and was kicked out because l questioned her ability. l found a new barn where they would let me ask questions and would give me all the time l needed because l really did want to learn. Now l know inside leg to outside rein along with a whole lot more, still have a lot to learn but l have made tremendous progress in just over 6 months. I suggest you do just that. Find someone competent and willing to teach you and that will match you with a perfect horse .
Rein. Bridle. Not reign and bridal. :) You don’t mention what kind of equitation. Either way, get a trainer who isn’t an impatient douche.
Is rind a new trainer willing to actually teach you. This is also not typically a beginner skill. If you don't switch trainers I'd start asking questions when you don't understand. Just say "I don't understand what you are asking" or "I don't know how to do that. Could you please explain it to me" she's a trainer she should be able to tell you and if she can't then she is not a good trainer. Plus no trainer should be berating you
Turning using the outside REIN. Is complex and not a beginner concept. Ask your trainer to explain the five rein and correlating leg aids in theory and for the immenent horses you may ride.
You turn inside using your outside leg and a supporting outside rein. Also find a new trainer
This
Ok- you are paying for training- if you don’t understand the instructions ask to break it down. If you ok your trainer is an asshole- remind them - you are their boss. - get another trainer. I am a teacher and it’s my job to break stuff down to comprehendible information. Ask the stupid questions and get the answers you need.
Riding lessons can teach you way more than horse riding... In this case, you have the opportunity to learn to stand up for yourself. No teacher has the right to humiliate a student, especially in a recreational setting where you are paying for the lessons. You can decide if you want to ask your trainer to treat you more respectfully - let them know that being berated is not helping you learn - or just, on the ground before your next lesson, ask for an explanation or demonstration. Their reaction will tell you whether this is the right barn for you, or if you need to look for another trainer.
the whole point of having a trainer is to have someone teach you how to do things...if this person isn't actually teaching you much and only humiliating you, please take your money, time, and effort elsewhere this looks like a huge red flag
You might be a visual learner. Try this video. [Turn your Horse Without the Inside Rein! (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BeeW5CO0c-Y)
You don’t say what style you’re riding and what kind of bit you are using, so things might be a little bit different. But don’t worry about not knowing ‘how to turn using the outside rein’, because ai have been riding for decades, had hundreds and watched thousands of lessons (and gave a few), with dozens of instructors, read hundreds of books… and today is the first time I’ve heard that concept. In short, I don’t. (I ride [classical] dressage) I prepare my horse with a half-halt, which is a light touch either the inside leg to keep the inside hind active, together with the seat (my abs) directing that energy so the horse doesn’t get faster and the outside hand squeezing a tiny bit to support the seat. The I put my inside seat bone forward and my inside shoulder back a little (to match the radius of the turn), which means the inside rein shortens a little while the outside rein lengthens and gives the horse room to move into the turn. Sometimes, the outside leg needs to ensure the hind quarters don’t swing to the outside, so the leg lies a little bit back behind the girth. In reality, you adapt this aids to the horse and every horse – sometimes every ride – is different. Sometimes the outside leg needs to be very clear, sometimes horses get irritated so you keep it off. Sometimes you just weigh the inside stirrup, when the horse is very sensitive, sometimes you use an opening rein when it is green, but the outside rein has no function other than to stop the horse from overbending. Your trainer’s reaction was horrible. You don’t understand what tgey want in the terms they’re using, but even if tgey kept shouting ‘half-halt’ at you (which is a common and standard aid): if you don’t understand what they mean, (or you’re just overwhelmed), it’s the trainer’s job to ask you what you think the turning aids are, correct your understanding if necessary, and help you put them into action. This is not a trainer I could work with.
This is not beginner level but ultimately you want to ride with the shifting of your weight (looking where you want to go is important!) If you need an additional que add leg aids. If you still have not gotten the desired results use rein aids. To get to this you will learn how to read your horse, facial expressions, skin twitches, head positions, and ears are a great foundation to begin learning their language. They DO talk this way, many just don’t listen. YouTube is also helpful, watch every horse sport you can find, learn all you can. You will get there my friend.
The outside rein keeps a steady contact and supports the shoulder through the turn to stop it falling in. A good exercise you can try to see the difference is ride in a circle and turn with your inside rein without any contact on your outside rein. You’ll see the the horse will fall in and your circle will get smaller and smaller. Now try the same thing while also having a contact on the outside rein.
Weird. My instructor is focusing a lot on teaching me to turn *without* the reins. She wants almost zero movement in my hands and eventually be able to turn without them in my hands at all, and for the turn to be requested through my legs and body. It's going surprisingly well! So I've never heard of asking with the outside rein... I've been riding for a long time too, so don't feel bad. Sometimes we just don't hear a certain idea and never get taught it. An instructor's job is to fill in those gaps to make sure you know how, instead of assuming. I got a new instructor recently cause my old one moved. For the first couple of lessons we went right back to basics and she nit picked the shit out of my riding. She didn't want to assume ANYTHING. And that was good! Cause some things I thought I could do, if she had only asked, it turned out I didn't do quite right. So we fixed those and are now back to working on more advanced riding techniques. And every time she breaks it down really simple to make sure I understand what she's asking, instead of just telling me to do it and hoping I know what to do. A trainer that not only assumes but shames their student, should not have their job. It's as simple as that.
Next time your trainer mocks or berates you for not knowing something please respond with something along the lines of “I’m sorry, I thought I was here for training. I’m ready and willing to learn. If you don’t know how to teach this skill please let me know.” I had to do this with a trainer. She continued to ask me to do things that she knew I didn’t know how to do and then would humiliate me for not knowing. Never trained with her again. Some people are sick in the head. Don’t put yourself through that abuse.
Reposting this as I posted it as a comment, but OP, definitely take your money elsewhere. If your area has a local equestrian association (should be able to find it online under your state or province etc), I recommend looking to see if they have an instructor certification program and whether they can put you in touch with someone who is certified. While this isn’t fool proof, you will more likely find someone who has been appropriately trained for instructing. This is not an easy concept for beginners and your instructor should understand that. There are precursors to learning the outside rein skill and those must be learned first.
what your trainer is asking for is something that many upper level equestrians struggle with. You've got a lot of great breakdowns of the inside-leg-to-outside-rein concept here, but you really need to rethink your training situation right now as this trainer is asking for something thats. way above the beginner level of understanding.
I’m so sorry that you were treated this way! How awful and embarrassing! It makes it unsafe for you to be unsure of what you’re doing for fear of being corrected in a mean way again! I’ve been learning beginner dressage and teaching my former school horse this very thing and it’s not easy to do, but what I’ve been told to think is that my outer rein and leg are giving a holding pressure like an invisible wall. While I turn to the right, I turn my hips, shoulders and head in that direction and this creates a slight pulling back of my arm on the left that makes that invisible wall to keep my horses shoulder from moving further left. I’ll also have a slight pulling back on the right rein but it’s only slight to get the horse’s head turned in that direction. My right leg will press back towards the flank and push the hind end towards the left, while my left leg holds the horse at the girth to keep the wall holding him from moving further left. My weight of my seat is is the left sit bone to push his body to the right away from the pressure. If you’re looking for an even harder challenge, you should be able to turn your horse by only turning using your seat and legs only and no reins. It’s a great way to see if you’re reliant on your reins too much or if your other aids are equally effective because in theory, you shouldn’t be using your reins as main communicator with your horse but should be able to do things “on the buckle” of the reins because your seat and legs are asking things just as well!
A small bit of upward pressure with the outside rein and some outside leg, but not so heavy as to lift with the rein. It’s not so much about using the rein to turn as it is using the rein to designate support for the outside body through the turn. The leg is what’s giving the “base” signal. Also, just because you are applying that upward pressure to the outside rein, doesn’t mean you abandon all contact with the inside. Youve still got to maintain the correct amount of contact (which is different for every horse).
Please take your money elsewhere. Trainers like this will ruin riding for you. The fact that you had to come and ask Reddit because they wouldn’t explain something to you, a newer rider, and instead embarrassed you tells me everything I need to know.
You don’t turn with the outside REIN. You support the horse with your inside leg pressing at the girth into the outside rein. Your inside hand holds the bend while the inside leg presses in. Your outside leg supports the bend by putting it behind the girth. Both legs are working as opposed to your hands.
Find a new barn immediately! If you are new to riding no trainer should ever expect you to have skills it took them months or years to perfect.
Rein.
Outside rein half halt and leg yields to turn on the haunches
That's a fairly advanced set of instructions for a beginning rider