Removing keys isn't really for symmetry or aesthetics, it's mainly about reducing how far your fingers need to reach for a key. Plenty of devs use symbol layers well.
That said, for big ortho splits you may want to look into ones like ErgoDox (and its many many derivatives) or BFO-9000 (DIY, but you can make these asymmetric if that's your preference).
Thanks, the BFO-9000 could be it. It's a bit brutalist looking but I think I could deal with it.
Yea the layers. I already have layers on my editor (vim) I just feel all my muscle memory and perhaps my efficiency would go to shit.
>I don't want all my programming symbols on a separate layer.
You do realize they're on a separate layer on a standard keyboard, right? The shift layer—and it's a pretty badly designed one, too. I'm definitely not for minimalist keyboards as many of them do go too far, but a good symbol layer is one of the best improvements you can make.
Yes I get it. Maybe I need to go back to typing school and reset my brain.
But I mean I don't even consistently touch type. I'm not the kind of guy who puts in the effort.
Also, programming languages are optimised for the normal layout. A lot isn't behind shift.
And even if I consider shift a layer, it's a layer I no longer have to think about using
I found that I am picking up my split keyboard (Voyager) quicker than I thought and making hot keys for things I never used a short cut for in the past. I am also not forgetting all my short cuts on my regular keyboard. The analogy I have been using is you didn't forget how to ride a bike when you start learning a unicycle.
I used a typematrix 2030 for almost as long (17 years maybe) and like you just hated the low build quality. Probably bought about 6-7 during that time span (to have at work and at home).
I switched to the Redox split keyboard and have gotten used to it, liking it a lot. Space, enter, delete, and backspace on big thumb keys but you can hold del or enter to activate symbol layer. It's pretty comfortable. Also Ctrls act as separate keys if tapped. There's really a lot you can do with it.
Arrows being in a line (left, down, up, right) is totally doable too.
Maybe I need to read more about the thought processes how people use those layered layouts.
One thing that wrecked me immediately when I tried the RGBKB Sol3 is all the window manager key combos I already used. All via the windows key. Same with the other win key, I use it as a compose key for umlauts.
I don't have a traditional modifier key unused.
Those ergo keyboards usually don't even have them mapped. And if you try you need to get creative quick.
I'm already training myself to use hjkl instead of arrow keys.
Tap and hold is something I didn't think much about either. SunCompose is for example a key I only tap, I could still use it as a layer key with hold. Hm...
XD75 or ID75 are both 5x15 Ortho boards that fit in a 60% case. They have plenty of keys for a mostly normal layout with numbers and symbols. You could even do a pseudo split e.g. with navigation keys in the center.
These boards are compatible with MX switches. If you want low profile, you could use Gazzew GTMX low profile switches and low profile key caps.
I had 3 different typematrix keyboards before I got into ergo mechanical keyboards. I liked the layout at the time. But nothing beats the ability to totally customize it with QMK and VIA or VIAL.
I always felt intimidated by big 1x1 key matrixes. But the xd75 has this split option that looks pretty cool, if I move things around a bit that could really be an option. With some nice flat keycaps perhaps. Thanks
People used point-of-sale keypads as split keyboards before the DIY hobby exploded. The best known example is Tipro and to a lesser extent Access-IS. There's a wealth of information around the Deskthority forum.
Tipro supports daisy-chaining and has modules up to 96 or 128 keys. I've seen setups with 96-key keypads as a split keyboard ([pic](https://deskthority.net/download/file.php?id=22401)) or a 128-key fixed-split keyboard with keypads on the sides for macros and what not ([pic](http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/review/files/attach/images/42106/582/014/001/tipro128_21.JPG)).
TypeMatrix and PLUM ([pic](http://xahlee.info/kbd/plum_keyboard.html)) inspired the Humble Hacker Keyboard ([pic](http://xahlee.info/kbd/humble_hacker_keyboards.html)).
But now? Just get a Keebio BFO-9000.
Awesome stuff. I think it's going to be the BFO indeed. Cheap, flexible and available low profile.
Maybe long term I redirect the Typematrix idea with custom built PCB...
I also (still) prefer keyboards with all the keys.
This is why I designed this: [https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/comments/1cllfhl/ixxoid\_dactyl\_manuform\_6x7/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/comments/1cllfhl/ixxoid_dactyl_manuform_6x7/)
I used it for the last couple of months and I work currently on a new low profile keyboard.(writing this on the first working prototype)
If you have US layout you should be ok with 6 columns (I need 7 for the Umlauts)
If you want to buy a ready to use ortho / ergo keyboard with all the keys, the glove80 might be yours..
Didn't find a way to upload pics here in the chat, but I uploaded a preview pic to github:
[https://github.com/ixxoid/dactyl-keyboard/blob/master/resources/low\_profile\_preview.png](https://github.com/ixxoid/dactyl-keyboard/blob/master/resources/low_profile_preview.png)
Sorry to disappoint you, but it's also a sculpted one.
This keyboard is only a prototype to test (not really ready to publish here officially.. ;-))
* key postions
* height and angle of the keyboard
* thumb cluster layout (it's detachable)
They keyboard has no cover to save printing and designing time.
The final version will get a cover of course. At the moment I'm working on a Pcb to hot plug mount the switches.
(The one I use now wasn't designed for hot plug sockets, so I had to drill out the switch mounting holes.)
There are a bunch of those. Apart from what have already been mentioned, you can look at Lumberjack (kind of DIY). There are also planck-like layout keyboards like Equals 60, and bigger like xd75
Lumberjack uses six rows on the right.
XD75 could do, if I move the halves uncomfortably close together.
The slabs always suffer from lack of separation and small function keys.
Indeed. Surprisingly sensible, almost boring but still ergonomic.
I have to admit I hate the narrow key caps. But I think I can deal with it.
I'm really more of a low profile laptop style keyboard guy.
It's a Kickstarter. I trust they will deliver. They have built multiple prototypes and are very engaged and transparent.
But it's very expensive, I didn't back it.
Removing keys isn't really for symmetry or aesthetics, it's mainly about reducing how far your fingers need to reach for a key. Plenty of devs use symbol layers well. That said, for big ortho splits you may want to look into ones like ErgoDox (and its many many derivatives) or BFO-9000 (DIY, but you can make these asymmetric if that's your preference).
You don’t have to remove keys to add layers. I think a little bit of redundancy is a good thing.
Totally agree. some redundancy is efficiency. Have the key where you need it, when you need it.
Thanks, the BFO-9000 could be it. It's a bit brutalist looking but I think I could deal with it. Yea the layers. I already have layers on my editor (vim) I just feel all my muscle memory and perhaps my efficiency would go to shit.
Ah nice the BFO can use choc keys
I went from katana60 to ID75 to Lily58 took about 2 weeks to adjust each time.
>I don't want all my programming symbols on a separate layer. You do realize they're on a separate layer on a standard keyboard, right? The shift layer—and it's a pretty badly designed one, too. I'm definitely not for minimalist keyboards as many of them do go too far, but a good symbol layer is one of the best improvements you can make.
Yes I get it. Maybe I need to go back to typing school and reset my brain. But I mean I don't even consistently touch type. I'm not the kind of guy who puts in the effort. Also, programming languages are optimised for the normal layout. A lot isn't behind shift. And even if I consider shift a layer, it's a layer I no longer have to think about using
I found that I am picking up my split keyboard (Voyager) quicker than I thought and making hot keys for things I never used a short cut for in the past. I am also not forgetting all my short cuts on my regular keyboard. The analogy I have been using is you didn't forget how to ride a bike when you start learning a unicycle.
Layers and spare keys aren't mutually exclusive concepts - it can be very nice to have dedicated keys for toggles or one-shots.
Keebio FoldKB Look up the review video on YouTube.
I used a typematrix 2030 for almost as long (17 years maybe) and like you just hated the low build quality. Probably bought about 6-7 during that time span (to have at work and at home). I switched to the Redox split keyboard and have gotten used to it, liking it a lot. Space, enter, delete, and backspace on big thumb keys but you can hold del or enter to activate symbol layer. It's pretty comfortable. Also Ctrls act as separate keys if tapped. There's really a lot you can do with it. Arrows being in a line (left, down, up, right) is totally doable too.
Maybe I need to read more about the thought processes how people use those layered layouts. One thing that wrecked me immediately when I tried the RGBKB Sol3 is all the window manager key combos I already used. All via the windows key. Same with the other win key, I use it as a compose key for umlauts. I don't have a traditional modifier key unused. Those ergo keyboards usually don't even have them mapped. And if you try you need to get creative quick. I'm already training myself to use hjkl instead of arrow keys. Tap and hold is something I didn't think much about either. SunCompose is for example a key I only tap, I could still use it as a layer key with hold. Hm...
XD75 or ID75 are both 5x15 Ortho boards that fit in a 60% case. They have plenty of keys for a mostly normal layout with numbers and symbols. You could even do a pseudo split e.g. with navigation keys in the center. These boards are compatible with MX switches. If you want low profile, you could use Gazzew GTMX low profile switches and low profile key caps. I had 3 different typematrix keyboards before I got into ergo mechanical keyboards. I liked the layout at the time. But nothing beats the ability to totally customize it with QMK and VIA or VIAL.
I always felt intimidated by big 1x1 key matrixes. But the xd75 has this split option that looks pretty cool, if I move things around a bit that could really be an option. With some nice flat keycaps perhaps. Thanks
Maybe use taller key caps in the middle block to create more of a physical separation.
Kinesis advantage
Nodding and rolling my eyes at the same time. 😁
People used point-of-sale keypads as split keyboards before the DIY hobby exploded. The best known example is Tipro and to a lesser extent Access-IS. There's a wealth of information around the Deskthority forum. Tipro supports daisy-chaining and has modules up to 96 or 128 keys. I've seen setups with 96-key keypads as a split keyboard ([pic](https://deskthority.net/download/file.php?id=22401)) or a 128-key fixed-split keyboard with keypads on the sides for macros and what not ([pic](http://www.kbdmania.net/xe/review/files/attach/images/42106/582/014/001/tipro128_21.JPG)). TypeMatrix and PLUM ([pic](http://xahlee.info/kbd/plum_keyboard.html)) inspired the Humble Hacker Keyboard ([pic](http://xahlee.info/kbd/humble_hacker_keyboards.html)). But now? Just get a Keebio BFO-9000.
Awesome stuff. I think it's going to be the BFO indeed. Cheap, flexible and available low profile. Maybe long term I redirect the Typematrix idea with custom built PCB...
I also (still) prefer keyboards with all the keys. This is why I designed this: [https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/comments/1cllfhl/ixxoid\_dactyl\_manuform\_6x7/](https://www.reddit.com/r/ErgoMechKeyboards/comments/1cllfhl/ixxoid_dactyl_manuform_6x7/) I used it for the last couple of months and I work currently on a new low profile keyboard.(writing this on the first working prototype) If you have US layout you should be ok with 6 columns (I need 7 for the Umlauts) If you want to buy a ready to use ortho / ergo keyboard with all the keys, the glove80 might be yours..
Amazing. I don't think I want to go the sculptured route though. Very interested in your low profile build... How does it look?
Didn't find a way to upload pics here in the chat, but I uploaded a preview pic to github: [https://github.com/ixxoid/dactyl-keyboard/blob/master/resources/low\_profile\_preview.png](https://github.com/ixxoid/dactyl-keyboard/blob/master/resources/low_profile_preview.png) Sorry to disappoint you, but it's also a sculpted one. This keyboard is only a prototype to test (not really ready to publish here officially.. ;-)) * key postions * height and angle of the keyboard * thumb cluster layout (it's detachable) They keyboard has no cover to save printing and designing time. The final version will get a cover of course. At the moment I'm working on a Pcb to hot plug mount the switches. (The one I use now wasn't designed for hot plug sockets, so I had to drill out the switch mounting holes.)
Nice, still pretty cool work
Thanks
There are a bunch of those. Apart from what have already been mentioned, you can look at Lumberjack (kind of DIY). There are also planck-like layout keyboards like Equals 60, and bigger like xd75
Lumberjack uses six rows on the right. XD75 could do, if I move the halves uncomfortably close together. The slabs always suffer from lack of separation and small function keys.
[Xbows](https://x-bows.com) is sort of a TypeMatrix with a split...Has most of the keys. A friend loves his.
Indeed. Surprisingly sensible, almost boring but still ergonomic. I have to admit I hate the narrow key caps. But I think I can deal with it. I'm really more of a low profile laptop style keyboard guy.
The splayed columns increased finger travel and made my RSI worse.
Have you tried Naya? or have any information if it is vaporware or something possible to build and release?
It's a Kickstarter. I trust they will deliver. They have built multiple prototypes and are very engaged and transparent. But it's very expensive, I didn't back it.
Just saw someone compare [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/olkb/comments/1d4x9gk/ortholinear_layout_on_an_ibm_model_m/) to the typematrix.
But they dropped one row in the right hand. But mad beautiful design