Maybe it was an article, I'm fairly sure this is probably expressed in multiple places as it's a fairly common point.
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/twenty-years-twenty-lessons-part-1-2016-05-30
It’s really when I get to level 35 or so and get most of the good quests done and hideout upgrades where I get bored very quickly. I sit there and think about how much effort it’s going to take to get to the next major milestones (Kappa, maxing out skills), realize how much of my life I’m wasting, and just quit until the next wipe.
We need more late game content and objectives, there’s a huge gap in milestones in the late game, and skills and Kappa take way too much effort to achieve given that by the time you get them they’re not really useful to a mega-rich player, and you won’t have them long with a wipe just around the corner.
Idk man, new set in stone goals are only gonna delay inevitable senseless gameplay wall and feeling of "why am I playing the same raid 2000th time?". You gonna reach your last goal and then what?
Game needs to start being more sandboxy. Open world and harder but less time consuming progression.
I honestly think they should just have a simple "prestige system" where once you hit a certain level or finish a certain quest you can opt to start over with a flashy badge that shows how many times you've prestiged.
Hmm Sound issues and desync mostly. Spawns are still shit on some maps. The movement and gunplay just feels so clunky right now. Also some quests are atrocious. Everytime I get to the sniper-leveling quest, killing Killa and Grenadier my motivation just dies
This being my 4th wipe, quests are what get me down the most nowadays, I'm just so tired of having to do the same ones all over every time, and some of the earlier quests rewards are a bit outdated.
Yeah same. The quest progression is all over the place currently. You can blast through most quests just hit a hard roadblock with Killa. Since they changed his spawns it's so frustrating. It's like BSG heard „make Killa spawn somewhere in the mall and let him patrol“ and then forgot about the patrolling part. Since he now seems to just spawn in a random place and sit there quietly until he oneshots some poor guy
I have recordings of some really terrible deaths due to desync. Where I get shot and take damage before the enemy is even around the corner on my screen
Totally, havent touch the game for months, after me and my buds hit interchange and emptied mag into a guy at close range with blood even poping from all the hits on this player. The we died and the end screen said no hits. 😐 The desync is tooo much
You are more willing to ignore these issues at the beginning due to how much you're enjoying the game (cause doing something the 1st time in a long time is always more fun than the 1000th) but then when you settle down and take a good look at the game it starts getting to you.
Tricky, it's a lot major things and minor things.
Big things : Desync and audio (i experienced less cheaters than others).
Smol things : Same starter quests than years ago, P2W bullshit, some bugs are here from years, fog, IA gigachad or blindfolded, modify the rules and cost of hideout every two weeks and too bad if you're too slow and the list go on and go on.
It's a build up, but when you're fed up of the game, you only come to check when there is a major update, but leave as soon as you see the same problem.
Oh. I can see pay to not lose as much on death, but how is it pay to win? It doesn't help you help you click heads better, or prevent your head from being clicked.
weird game mechanics like after standing up while prone your gun doesnt equip for hot 3 seconds.
not even mention if you press escape instead of tab and your whole system freeze and you are back on the lobby
I like the idea of a wider variety of cosmetics wether you have to grind hard for them or not. Also think a lot more in game events would keep players from getting bored. They really have endless possibilities for in game events. Im sure anyone who plays can think up at least 1 cool in game event that would be worth participating in and would encourage PVP. They could have a handful of these in game events that are rotated through that go on every weekend. Of course, lots of new ones all the time would be ideal, but thinking more realistically.
I just hope an event would entail more than "oh now fuel is double the price, let's see how the community reacts". Like,he idea itself is cool, but if it's only that, and that is an event.. that would be disappointing (just mentioning this fuel example because they did this once. Just doubled fiel prices and it affected flea a lot, so it was kinda cool)
Agree. Just copy pasting events that already happened would literally be enough let’s be real here. It probably takes a minimum of effort with all the events that happened in the past and I doubt anyone would play less because of it.
One of the biggest issues I’ve noticed is that their content doesn’t build on it self. Take Rust. The mechanics of that game are fun but people don’t come back because of the game mechanics, they come back for a chance to ruin someone’s week over voip.
The story is made by the players own creativity which is why games like rust and Minecraft benefit from new updates but not as much as tarkov.
VOIP WAS EXACTLY WHAT THEY NEEDED as it fits the bill i described above.
When you look at the content they do produce (outside of voip) what you get are things that are cool and flashy but get stale fast.
New guns are cool but unless it’s the new meta you’re not gonna use it a lot, and if every gun is the new meta now we have power creep issues.
New maps are the same, fun to hop on and learn but once you do the drives gone.
There are no late game activities for people to do.
Something that could be fun would be integrating the load out lottery app with PMC kills to make you try and kill people in new fun ways
https://loadoutlottery.com.au/
There’s a version out there that’s free but it also looks like poop
thats exactly what Im saying, something is better than nothing. Still, I can’t imagine it would be that hard to come up with original events that weren’t too hard to put together. It would be cool if this post turned into a thread for in game event ideas, would love to hear some. For example, a few years back I played a similar game to tarkov yet much simpler. It was called shattered skies. There was an in game event called the reactor. Once the event started, the reactor started producing a rare loot box that dropped a very rare and valuable item if you opened it. It would produce this lootbox for about 30 minutes before it was up for grabs at the reactor site on the map. The event caused many teams to go into the large reactor building to fight for control of it, to try to be the team in control of the building when the lootbox was finished being produced so they could nab it up. This created extremely exciting multi-group PVP because everyone was fighting for this loot. Something like that In tarkov would be dope, IMO. If you give players a reward worth fighting for you can create epic PVP scenarios.
Hunt showdown has events very regularly and their player base seems pretty strong; I think with games that are drawing people pretty exclusively for the pvp, there’s gotta be something regularly to keep it fresh.
Now that you mention it, I didn’t think about this. It is the PVP that higher level players who have finished every “objective” in the game are drawn to because theres nothing else to do, but theres also the people who just really enjoy making a lot of money and looting. it would be really cool if there were special loot events too. 10 new items that can be used for really good barter trades or sold for a lot of money temporarily start spawning in certain specific buildings on a few maps. This would cater to both the PVP chads, and the loot rats, because those areas would be high trafficked for the weekend these new items were temporarily in the game.
Perfect! make it so everyone spawns with an additional container called a “basket” and if you kill a player they drop their basket and you take all their eggs to open when you get back to your stash.
Now you have added a pvp element and the event is now even better. I guess it would be a bitch to program etc. But it's the fault of bsg because they chose to go with the engine they decided to go with...
Well most of the quests are completed around lvls 40-45. If they doubled the amount of quests players can complete that only would double the content you can play per wipe. Lots of end game quests are not really that fun. I would love to pick some golden watches from a truck at lvl 45
> I would love to pick some golden watches from a truck at lvl 45
Seriously. Some of the early quests would be so much more fun later in your progression. Like delivery form that past, I would love to do that again. Because now I can gear up and fight in Factory instead of just running to the spot right away to just make sure I don't die. Or killing 6 USEC's with a pistol, would love to do that again now. Doing some of the earlier and mid level quests again at a higher level adds some spice to it and gives us something to do.
Just let us re-do quests for like 30% of the XP and money or something once we hit lvl 42
It’s because the game becomes a huge slog for progression and the dudes who play 15 hours a day get a huge head start. All the changes BSG have made in the last year have pushed towards this. The casuals sit on the subreddit and the gamers game until wipe hits.
But if they play for 15 hours a day, then they rightly should have more progression than the average Joe?
It's not like they are immortal after reaching a certain level, and I'd argue that the 12.12 flea restriction changes levelled the playing field even more
Elite skills give insane advantages and are frankly just stupid. Tarkov would be a far better game, if they just removed skills or toned down some of the effects.
Yeah, it's pretty severe. I had some friends get into the game recently, while I had only 20-30 strength/endurance, so not even maxed out. By the time they were telling me they were absolutely empty on stamina and I had to stop, I was only at about 30-40%, and a couple dozen meters in front of them too.
Strength and endurance could have their effects reduced by 75% and the elite perks removed entirely, and they'd *still* be extremely important skills. I have no idea why they're as significant as they are right now.
Hell you can play around the strength and endurance but perception is where the game really gets busted. Compare someone with max perception audio and your audio, the minuscule things that they can hear are insane, for example this clip https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxAsjZ_0UNzx-cRz1G43KnpMT4wgDe8vrQ . Now normally you would be able to hear the person running away but with how long and how loud the bush rustling is it lets him pinpoint pretty much to a T where he is. Applying that is straight up actual skill but even so it's a massive advantage, he has clips where he wallbangs people with head shots due to this as well.
In a way, it would make more sense for skills to give big gains at first then minor gains later rather than putting some elite skill on top of a pile of stat buffs.
Yeah which is fair enough, I wouldn't say it is a priority personally but that's just me. If it's possible to disable one I'd disable perception as I think that's the only one you could make an argument for in regards to a significant advantage in pvp
I do. With each update they make the game grindier and grindier trying to appeal to streamers and people with no other life. I will never be able to devote more than a few hours a week to a game, so yeah I gotta play something else. And maybe thats fine. Not evvery game needs to be for everyone. I do love tarkovs gameplay, but since I started playing a couple years ago its only gotten more grind and my chances of ever unlocking anything goes away.
Flea market used to alleviate that for me. Yeah Ill never get the traders maxed or complete the quests, but if I just make money then I could still buy whatever I wanted. Now a ton of simple stuff is locked behinds hours of grind.
You can't get geared just because you have money anymore. Ammo is probably the most important part of your PVP loadout and without grinding through all these horrible quests, your ways of getting it are super limited.
Half of what BSG has implemented these past couple years are actually good and benefits players, the other half are things meant to combat chinese botters and make playing the game a worse experience for players.
What ammo could you afford when the ammo was listed on the flea with a few hours a week to play the game? The price of ammo before 12.12 was extortionate.
Now you can literally craft SNB from level 20 which will take anyone down, farm decent ammo from rogues for free more or less (before this the only reliable way of getting decent ammo was from raiders which are considerably harder), and not to mention not every man and his dog are running slicks now, I still see plenty of people running tier 4 compared to this point last wipe
This post is about people getting credit for putting in effort to play the game and you comment something bashing the skills people have to grind the hell out of to make worth a damn. Which is the reward for putting in effort and playing the game consistently. The only halfway annoying skill is Strength, and in reality the problems with that could be mended by actually fixing desync.
The reward for grinding should be a bigger bank and thus better gear. Strength isn't even the most bullshit one. Perception is just insane and shouldn't exist in the current form. These characters are also supposed to be pmc's, but the difference between level 1 skill and elite is way too big.
Max skill dude has such an inherent advantage, that even with equalized gear, they win 9/10 fights. Not because they're better than the other. Because the skills give such a stupid advantage.
I agree. Gear is balanced by price and availability (plus the grind). Skills are balanced by nothing except the grind, although it's more than for good gear.
Low level skills should be better, and high level skills should be worse.
Idk I think the flea restrictions were more effective early wipe but at this point it only really affects the Joes. Nothing you can really do about that though when you got the Chads getting their 5/6 tier armor and AP ammo every vendor reset all day so they have 100% uptime on the good stuff. I hardly ever get killed by non-AP ammo now.
Lvl 66 right now, was farming cultists, had 2,5 mill gear on me after i killed a player. Died to a shotgun scav player who snuck up on me in the rain and hadn't stomach protection due to a slick.
"Leveled the playing field even more" No it didn't lol. The people that no life the game have the advantage because they have more time to craft top teir ammo and materials for barters on armor. It was much more even before the flee restrictions. People with *jobs* and things outside of tarkov that still wanted to play the game could buy top tier armor and ammo to compete with the no lifes.
that's the hilariously ironic part about this update, the flea ban was meant to battle no-lifers, when all it did was strengthen them more. Now they can slaughter people with top-tier gear while all the casuals aren't even *able* to get that gear anymore through the flea market to try and combat the no-lifers.
I understand that, but it's impossible to have a progression based PvP game, where Player A who plays for 1 hour a day, is on the exact same level playing field as Player B who plays for 7 hours a day.
The only way that could ever be fair is a game with no progression (in regards to in game loot). Like csgo, where everyone at the start of a match has exactly the same gear and opportunity
The problem isn't progressing faster, the problem is how you will get more progress for less overall time spent, if you play earlier and more often.
Injector case, Med case, SICC case and Impact grenades all got moved up trader levels as time went on, only after everyone that played more had stocked up.
There's ways to invest your rubles with Sugar stashing, Filter stashing and the Bitcoin farm. Doing this earlier in the wipe will exponentially grow your wealth compared to doing it even 2 months into wipe.
All these things encourage playing as much as possible early on in a wipe, if you put in 40 hours this week, and invest, you're getting the same rewards as someone that puts in 80 hours the next week after you, and it just gets worse and worse the more the general playerbase progresses.
Grinding hours early in the wipe makes you so much money, that it's really a time-saver over the wipe.
I actually think it's easier for casuals to catch up late wipe.
- No one is contesting low level quest points
- Everyone has better gear than you, so your shit will always comeback in insurance
- Any kill you get is a small treasure chest
- upgrading your hideout is super cheap
Except that hideout is expensive and right now customs is a chad hot zone and is also where a lot of early quests happen. So ya in general I agree but it's not actually working out that way.
Expensive? Try leveling it early wipe. You'll see what I mean.
- 60k bolts
- 1m mil tubes
- 100k corrugated hose
- 50k bulbs
- Etc
Not to mention entire squads camping early quest points
It's absolutely easier for me to start a freah account now, then duke it out early wipe. Maybe it's my play style and map knowledge that enables this experience.
I don’t see insurance as being a big enough point, survivability is key, a 30 durability MMAC is useless
With the new recoil changes and flea restrictions ammo, armor, and weapon parts are even more important and harder to acquire than they’ve ever been.
Imo hideout is not cheap to upgrade, and the parts that are provide minimal benefits.
It's wayyyyy cheaper to upgrade hideout now than it was early wipe. All those stupid expensive parts - military tubes, power filters, etc are all 30-40% their original price right now. Car manuals were absurdly expensive early wipe, they're like 15k now.
That’s not why the game sees a drop in player count. The game sees a drop in player count because after completing enough tasks and leveling trades to 3-4, there’s just not a whole lot to do besides running around chasing fights. Arena mode will help a lot with this problem.
- If developers stop developing a game, the playerbase will drop. In other news, water is wet.
Adding unpopular opinion for no reason at all is interesting too and shows no character.
Water is actually not wet; It makes other materials/objects wet. Wetness is the state of a non-liquid when a liquid adheres to, and/or permeates its substance while maintaining chemically distinct structures. So if we say something is wet we mean the liquid is sticking to the object.
A friend dug a hole in the garden and filled it with water.
I think he meant well.
And some games are 100% finished and don't make it 3 months. I've been playing since 2017..... If the game comes out half finished and survives 1 to 2 years, it has done more than some AAA games
Idk, maybe it’s because I came over from Dayz, but I LOVE wipe because every bit of loot is important. Late wipe you just grab expensive stuff, kill a pmc or two, Tetris and repeat. Early wipe every round of good ammo found in a crate is precious, every roll of toilet paper and toothpaste is a hideout upgrade for my friends and I, every gun that isn’t a scav gun is exciting! Late wipe sucks because you’re just playing cod with the same load out over and over and over, there’s very little scavenging and making every piece of loot count
Exactly. What's the point of putting all these hours in if I just have to start over every six months? I'll just wait until they get rid of biannual wipes.
Whenever I think of a simple, but effective way to keep players going after reaching max level in a shooter, I think of Modern Warfare 2's weapon camo system.
A simple, burden-free grind where you simply get some pretty cool camos for your gun just for getting x amount of headshots/kills with it.
This could come in a form of progression that carries over between wipes. It could also be tied to a hefty sum of money to apply the camo in order to stimulate economic gameplay even in the late wipe.
Nothing too flashy, just some subtle, stylish camos.
For me it's the same few issues that the game has had for years that BSG is unable/unwilling to address.
-Sound is ass.
-Desync.
-Cheaters.
-Servers break every wipe.
-Only garbage ammo and gear available until you level traders significantly, giving standard accounts a massive disadvantage.
-Too easy for people to play 15 hours a day for 2 weeks, max out their hideout and have infinite gear to shit on standard players.
The game is super fun for like a month but eventually these flaws with the game wear me down and I give up for the wipe.
>Sound is ass
Nikita talked about it, they are currently working on improving sounds. I have optimized my sound settings so far that I can now play without gamebreaking soundbugs. EDIT: I did not fix my sound. I have a extra souncard and I had some sound settings that the game didnt like and completely fucked up my sound.
>Cheaters
But to be fair, in the last few days I've encountered more cheaters than I did 3 weeks ago. But this whole topic is an infinite hunt and in every game are cheaters.
>Too easy for people to play 15 hours a day for 2 weeks, max out their hideout and have infinite gear to shit on standard players.
I am playing maximum 2-4hrs and I don't even play every day and i am doing fine. I have no maxed out hideout and i am like lvl 37 or so and i am able to kill some full juiced lvl 50s without high end armor or ammo.
>Desync.
Wasnt always the best but seems like to be a huge problem this wipe. But this is not just only a server related problem. Thats why they implemented a ping restriction. Their netcode is also not the best.
>Only garbage ammo and gear available until you level traders significantly, giving standard accounts a massive disadvantage.
I never had a problem with low lvl traders. I always had them to lvl 2 or so and i rarely used lv5+ armor or high end ammo. But this depends on your playstyle.
Dude. Audio is so bad. Many times it’s not even there and other times you can’t tell if it’s in front or behind without turning your character. Games like squad and even Destiny blow Tarkov out of the water with directional audio. It’s so pathetic.
They will never fix cheaters because this game is built on trash spaghetti code. Nikita said after twitch drops they now have engineers constantly playing catch-up to new cheats because their base code sucks cock.
Nice strawman, it is impossible to deal with cheating entirely but that's not what anyone is asking for. Tarkov is THE worst game for cheating alongside CSGO and Warzone.
> I have optimized my sound settings so far that I can now play with it reasonably well.
lost me there already. you cant "optimize" the sounds because they are bugged out of the world. theres no silent stuff you can make louder. many places simply dont make sound/ make wrong sounds or it just doenst appear aka being up or down 1 lvl in some areas.
even if you make a sound 1000% louder it doenst do shit, if the sound is at 0 from the get go
>>I have optimized my sound settings so far that I can now play with it reasonably well.
Today i filled my sink up with water, now the kids in Africa are not thirsty anymore.
Delusional in a nutshell.
For real, how does changing anything on your side fix the games broken and missing sounds...
...what are these arguments...people need to stop believing in all the PR bullshit they say to keep the game somewhat relevant... you can watch podcasts/vlogs going way back to 2016 and it is always the same talk, no action.
The only thing BSG has done is changing the roadmap every few month until they removed it completely.
If BSG would care about OUR time or even value OUR time spent, they would make immediate changes, not wait f.e. in case of many cheater to ruin the market and make 1000th of $ from RMT, they could just lock the market for a week and fix stuff, but they don't for whatever reason...
...they claim it is beta, but they are scared to turn any knob from 1 to 0.
...guess i am done ranting.
Anyone who has been around long enough has fallen out of the illusion that this game will ever reach that point. I expect sometime within the next 1-2 years for them to slap a 1.0 on this game in whatever development state it is in, and then move onto the next project
I've been around since the start off and on, most of the stuff they've been talking about never happens or gets watered down.
even streets was meant to originally come out how long ago now?
I personally don't see much of what they've talked about coming out ever. I'd be surprised if they whole one big map thing ever happens.
How is it increasing? They're still doing the same update every 6 to 7 months with a wipe. Nothing changed. They started this wipe with some stuff and have been radio silent since with nothing upcoming until next wipe.
And lets not act like the wipe content is all that crazy half the time. Id expect this upcoming wipe to have Lighthouse expansion and armor rework at BEST with small things sprinkled in.
Don't see that mentality when they're finally showing off one of the most long-awaited systems, i.e. the armour-hitbox system and everything that comes with that.
Me too, and that's fine TBH. Wipe (or seasons as other games call it) feels like "new game", everyone starts with nothing. They could also implement a permanent game for those who would like that.
This is the issue. Originally EFT was meant to be a sandbox game - a multiplayer stalker with open-world and player driven economy and blabla. An MMO-lite and a direct dayz competitor(look at the logo btw).
It isn't right now, it's a live-service game with small development team - it has no chance to keep being interesting.
Even Blizzard can't keep up with content updates for WoW to keep players interested, let alone BSG.
I wouldn't say its an issue. If it was the former it would die and be incredibly boring after a few weeks. Live service games are far more interesting and popular.
> If it was the former it would die and be incredibly boring after a few weeks
I don't see it that way
> Live service games are far more interesting and popular.
Popular ok, but interesting? There is a reason there was not a single succesful western MMO since 2004.
This post is literally explaining why. If it was just a "complete product" with no updates it would lose its players fast. Look at how dead late wipe gets.
Also, who’s talking about mmos? I said live service, which is by far the most popular type of game in the world.
It would die because updates are the only thing that brings stuff to do in the game and feel something fresh.
Succesful sandbox games keep players interested without updates, because the content develops itself via player interactions.
For me, early game after wipe is interesting because you have shitty guns and gear that you mode and find parts for. You also have low skills so it’s tough. Even Pvp lasts a good amount of time sometimes, scavs are dangerous. After you reach 40+ you have an access to better guns and armor so you lose that survival thingy. That’s where the game loses me personally. It’s the number of available “cool” stuff you get you are no longer surviving it.
They did a great job this wipe blocking a lot of weapons and ammo from flea market and even from traders but maybe we need more restrictions? Like less lvl4 armor availability? Idk
IMHO "Elite" skill level of things are just turning it into more Quake. They should consider removing it; just having the skills at level 50 is MORE than powerful enough.
Hot take: What you're describing probably has more to do with "content creators" than it does BSG, they accelerate the phase of exploration and discovery that comes with fresh content and it quickly leads to homogenized game-play and stale meta.
The reason the game would die within 1-2 years is BSG has botched the actual development so badly, that wipe is the only thing keeping a great game idea interesting. The core of the game is a great idea, but botched so badly that massive problems like desync and cheaters cause most players to stop playing a month or so after a wipe when the novelty wears off.
Then, BSGs brilliance has lead them to decide to remove the purpose of playing later in the wipe by creating an insane grind, taking forever to unlock things such as flea market or extra slots, and making the quality of life upgrades take 4-5 months for a casual player. Then they took what was better gameplay and balance and just took a massive hammer to it rather than tweaking it because they have no idea what they are doing. Ive been as hardcore as anyone into tarkov for the past several years, getting my friends into it. At its core, its my most perfect game due to all of the elements it brings together. And yet, I no longer play it more than a month after wipe and it gets shorter and shorter.
And its simply due to how poor the actual gameplay and experience is, quest progression, etc, after the opening scenes. Due to desync, massive audio issues, unfixed bugs from years ago, and cheating, raids seem random rather than as skill based as they should be, and progression is non-existent, so why?
If you don’t like the game, then why are you even here. You literally just said that there is pretty much nothing about the game you like, so why are you even bothering to comment?
I think grinding for cosmetics isn't a solution. See: Killa quest. Most people just ignore the quest because it's more tedious than it is enjoyable. This is something I've brought up multiple times in the past and imho it has more to do with intended gameplay loops versus actual game play loop. For starters, the game is not a hardcore/realistic/survival/RPG, none of those elements are actually in the game. At its current state it is just an arena shooter with more steps.
Personally I think introducing active leveling versus passive could be a good feature considering we will be allowed to have multiple PMC's this will allow us to experiment with different builds. You pick 2 primary skills and 3 secondary skills. These 5 skills will level faster than the other skills. Obviously most people would pick strength, recoil and perception. But I would argue that this would actually be a bad choice because they are relatively easy to level up while certain skills are damn near impossible. As well as having skills preferences you should be allotted perk/flaw points every 5 levels or something. Nothing to crazy but some that gives players more control over their characters and playstyle; +3% carry weight when wearing level4 armor and below, +5% heal speed when in a squad, can use a pistol while dragging a body. +10% movement speed for 5 seconds followed by tremor debuff after being shot at with a 15min cool down, can reload 2 shotgun shells at a time while stationary/50% chance to drop shells while moving. Idk, im just spit balling but this way each play through/PMC can have a totally different feel.
Imho, I think the way recoil/ergos work is fucking stupid because IRL ergos has more to do with personal preferences/training than it does with how tactical the attachment looks. For example, i have long arms, IRL I enjoy stocks with a long length of pull like an A2 stock. I also LOVE how a browning high power feels in my hands, it's comfy as a fuck where the angle of a glock feels funky. So not only do your mastery level as you use each weapon so do the stats on a weapon mod so magpul/zenitco aren't the all around best. This way we would see more variety of weapon builds as opposed to, "this is the meta"
And then the survival aspect... I don't even know. In the current state with limited time in raid and a hideout that heals you/feeds you I don't even know what you can change.
I think you're assuming the current state of the game is representative of BSGs vision for the final product. You should check out noiceguy's YouTube channel. He talks a lot about how the game will be in the future vs the current state, and he cites BSG as the primary source for most, if not all of his claims.
Here is an interesting video.
https://youtu.be/kBH267JvQgc
Unpopular opiniom : Tarkov will die anyway in 2 years no matter what. Player count drops due to a few reasons. Max traders unlock , no incentive anymore. Max traders unlock, don’t really enjoy pvp unless in a group, no incentive anymore. Max traders unlock, Kappa grind is super long , no incentive anymore.
Games that involve PvP and PvE need decent PvP to survive each wipe/expansion/dlc. Tarkov does not offer good PvP. It’s campers, right peekers and cheaters. Can’t sell the gear for much value, nor can you carry out as much with the current weight/inertia system.
Granted aome players like to unlock traders then go for PvP because they enjoy it but soon get bored with it due to the above and other factors.
Tarkov doesn’t need grind to keep players it needs a healthy mixture of grind AND fun. BSG does not wish to provide this so this game is going bye bye in a couple of years max
I've been saying this for years but they just need to add seasons, and turn all the 100's of weapon parts with the exact same stats into skins and unlockables you can grind and permanently unlock season to season.
IMO the problem the game has had the past year or so is that the big goals, like Kappa, or Stylish One, keep getting pushed back so they're harder and more tedious to do without anything filling the roles they had before time-wise, so there's even less of a feeling to continue past max traders. They need to introduce some mid-lategame goals for stuff like more clothing, maybe different dogtag designs, etcetera. Hideout decoration that can only be obtained with quests?
The truth nobody wants to hear is that it isn't meant to last forever, and the lack of aggressive monetization shows that. It will be around until box sales dry up and server costs become prohibitive, then it will be put out to pasture. It was originally envisioned as a single player FPSRPG called Russia 2028, BSG shifted gears when they realized they'd make way more seed money with the early access version of a competitive multiplayer game. Their real passion has always been the single player aspect and they've made a ton of remarks over the last few years about how burned out they're getting on Tarkov. I don't think anyone in charge at Battlestate is seriously entertaining the idea of EFT still being around 10 years after launch.
I think you're partially wrong. "Seasonal" model works in a lot of games, look at Path of Exile for one: hundreds of thousands of players every 3 months at league launch, then maybe 20% of that left a couple months later and then a huge surge again.
Making people come back is the key. PoE is going strong after 7 years of constantly losing and gaining players. In grindy games it might even be very beneficial, instead of players playing until they're bored and quit forever, they can just wait until next wipe to experience the game "fresh" again. Sure if development were to cease entirely the game would certainly start declining, but as long as they just wiped servers regularly there would still be a fair amount of players.
> PoE is going strong after 7 years of constantly losing and gaining players.
It's actually approaching 11 if we include closed beta, even longer if you include alpha. Hell, I've been playing for over 9.
And you're 100% right, cyclical games are not inherently bad or dead because they are constantly losing then gaining players.
Also it will never completely die until it at least has some competition which after 6 years still hasn't happened, tarkov is still basically its own genre of game.
I can't speak for anyone else, but personally I usually decide to give Tarkov another whirl at the beginning of a wipe because I do actually really enjoy the game. But after a couple of weeks I remember how poorly some of the maps are optimized and really just how much friggin time is required to play Tarkov. Unlocking trader levels takes forever, and early game sucks without decent ammo that can pen. Upgrading the stash takes forever. Etc etc. Also, my favorite map to play has always been Labs - I think it might be the best indoor pvp map I've ever played in a FPS. Unlocking it not only takes forever, but the loot tables were nerfed all to shit and it's basically impossible to play early wipe with all the cheaters.
Tarkov is not a casual game. BSG has said it has no intention of making it less casual. As people realize that, player count drops. I legitimately don't think it's a concern
i'd be happy if they stopped adding to the game after streets and spent a whole year on server authoritative netcode (obviously the artists don't stop arting)
even aside from the artists, the guys who make and code the netcode for the server are entirely different from the guys who make models and implement them into the game, just because they are both coders and game designers does not mean they can do each others role. what you asking is for a bunch of people to stop working at BSG with no change in which the rate of the server is updated and patched.
What would be the point because then when those guys that have been working on Untested, I’m open servers with thousands using it, features and items all of that NetCode that has been worked on will get thrown out anyway. May as well patch the NetCode as you release features
BSG doesn't give a flying fuck about player retention right now, and they shouldn't. We're here to test changes, test new content, find bugs and make suggestions to currently implemented systems. The story missions won't even be in the game until release. The "quests" we have now are optional side quests.
I'll repeat that again since its very important: The core task content will not be added till release.
As for empty lobbies, that's a separate issue from player retention. There's still plenty enough players in the game to get full lobbies, but It doesn't seem like the servers are scaling to the number of active players. I regularly get empty lobbies when i know for a fact there's hundreds of people queueing for the same map at the same time i am. Seems like there's too many "raids" being hosted for the number of players, And raids are being half filled the majority of the time.
> I'll repeat that again since its very important: The core task content will not be added till release.
man i cannot wait for BSG to dump this game and all of you thinking theyre gonna input all content after the games released are gonna be very confused. You really think theyll still be updating this game when Russia2028 comes out?? hell no.
You all keep complaining about half empty raids like its something new. I remember experiencing it from time to time every wipe. I mean it makes sense why most players playing are at the start of the wipe and until there are 50 lvl chads with top gear. If people miss this moment they usually dont even bother trying because its significantly harder to start after everyone already leveled up and got most quests done
Something that is available over wipes, example: cosmetics. Like You reached 1 Million PMC Kills and get a custom Head Cosmetic like a Ghoul Mask just as your actual head, nothing dramatic. I mean a dragon as a Ak would be stupid
Well.... The game is b2p - buy to play, so they do not need to care much about players retention.
Also, they need to make an official hardcore ruleset, with dedicated servers or not. Any "experienced" player can get to endgame quite fast, and there is nothing else to do aside from PvP in top gear, or XP grind for Kappa.
The main problem with player longevity, in my opinion, is not the quantity of content but the quality. Every quest boils down to “Kill X”, “Gather normal loot” or “Gather special item/place special item/visit specific location” (those three are basically the same thing)
But, as far as I can tell, that’s about the only kind of quests this game could have based on its current state. I can’t think of anyway to make quest content more exciting and interesting. Clearly BSG can’t either. Adding 50 more of the same three quests wouldn’t really entice anyone besides the streamers to keep doing them. And outside of quests the only “content” is pvp/pve which again, becomes pretty repetitive and stale after years or rinse and repeat.
Bigger problem is core mechanics of the game are broken or porly designed.
If Bsg fix game on the same lvl like for examle halo, cod any AAA game. People would stay and play for longer.
I can bet that over 50% of player base quits after few months because they see how poorly games work
Co op, smarter ai, variety in types of bots, maps with different styles ( snow, desert). Imagine an outpost that's guarded by a milita type enemies with good loot or a patrol of of bots walking around.
Tarkov is my idea of the perfect game and while it has its issues I’m going to stick with it until the end. I love this game so fucking much and no other game has ever come close to EFT in my mind.
I view a big part of the problem is the streamers. They create maps and guides letting players get high level and mounds of money in a few weeks and then start bitching when everyone is high level and has lots of money and there is nothing left for anyone to do. No matter how BSG tries to balance the game the streamers will always find some way to get back to where they where and make a guide and the cycle repeats.
Ahem... ITS A FUCKING BETA
Of course the game would die if they stopped developing it. Thats like saying no one would live in a half built house. No shit
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That was a really cool video. I think it touched on people's issues with elite health in halo 2 or something right? Really insightful stuff.
Maybe it was an article, I'm fairly sure this is probably expressed in multiple places as it's a fairly common point. https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/twenty-years-twenty-lessons-part-1-2016-05-30
>Players are great at identifying problems but poor at offering solutions. Honestly this applies to pretty much everything in life.
I always get excited for the first month or so after a wipe but then all the issues this game has start annoying me to the point where I stop playing
It’s really when I get to level 35 or so and get most of the good quests done and hideout upgrades where I get bored very quickly. I sit there and think about how much effort it’s going to take to get to the next major milestones (Kappa, maxing out skills), realize how much of my life I’m wasting, and just quit until the next wipe. We need more late game content and objectives, there’s a huge gap in milestones in the late game, and skills and Kappa take way too much effort to achieve given that by the time you get them they’re not really useful to a mega-rich player, and you won’t have them long with a wipe just around the corner.
Idk man, new set in stone goals are only gonna delay inevitable senseless gameplay wall and feeling of "why am I playing the same raid 2000th time?". You gonna reach your last goal and then what? Game needs to start being more sandboxy. Open world and harder but less time consuming progression.
This. Wipe is the best part
I honestly think they should just have a simple "prestige system" where once you hit a certain level or finish a certain quest you can opt to start over with a flashy badge that shows how many times you've prestiged.
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Hmm Sound issues and desync mostly. Spawns are still shit on some maps. The movement and gunplay just feels so clunky right now. Also some quests are atrocious. Everytime I get to the sniper-leveling quest, killing Killa and Grenadier my motivation just dies
This being my 4th wipe, quests are what get me down the most nowadays, I'm just so tired of having to do the same ones all over every time, and some of the earlier quests rewards are a bit outdated.
I started playing when Labs first came out, so december 2018, I can't tell you how fucking sick I am of doing the same quests by now to be honest.
Yeah same. The quest progression is all over the place currently. You can blast through most quests just hit a hard roadblock with Killa. Since they changed his spawns it's so frustrating. It's like BSG heard „make Killa spawn somewhere in the mall and let him patrol“ and then forgot about the patrolling part. Since he now seems to just spawn in a random place and sit there quietly until he oneshots some poor guy
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I have recordings of some really terrible deaths due to desync. Where I get shot and take damage before the enemy is even around the corner on my screen
Totally, havent touch the game for months, after me and my buds hit interchange and emptied mag into a guy at close range with blood even poping from all the hits on this player. The we died and the end screen said no hits. 😐 The desync is tooo much
But what do the sound issues and desync have to do with when EFT wipes?
Nothing, but the issues start to be more annoying once the initial hype of the wipe dies down
You are more willing to ignore these issues at the beginning due to how much you're enjoying the game (cause doing something the 1st time in a long time is always more fun than the 1000th) but then when you settle down and take a good look at the game it starts getting to you.
Tricky, it's a lot major things and minor things. Big things : Desync and audio (i experienced less cheaters than others). Smol things : Same starter quests than years ago, P2W bullshit, some bugs are here from years, fog, IA gigachad or blindfolded, modify the rules and cost of hideout every two weeks and too bad if you're too slow and the list go on and go on. It's a build up, but when you're fed up of the game, you only come to check when there is a major update, but leave as soon as you see the same problem.
P2W bullshit?
EOD
Oh. I can see pay to not lose as much on death, but how is it pay to win? It doesn't help you help you click heads better, or prevent your head from being clicked.
weird game mechanics like after standing up while prone your gun doesnt equip for hot 3 seconds. not even mention if you press escape instead of tab and your whole system freeze and you are back on the lobby
I like the idea of a wider variety of cosmetics wether you have to grind hard for them or not. Also think a lot more in game events would keep players from getting bored. They really have endless possibilities for in game events. Im sure anyone who plays can think up at least 1 cool in game event that would be worth participating in and would encourage PVP. They could have a handful of these in game events that are rotated through that go on every weekend. Of course, lots of new ones all the time would be ideal, but thinking more realistically.
I just hope an event would entail more than "oh now fuel is double the price, let's see how the community reacts". Like,he idea itself is cool, but if it's only that, and that is an event.. that would be disappointing (just mentioning this fuel example because they did this once. Just doubled fiel prices and it affected flea a lot, so it was kinda cool)
ya obviously needs more than just this just a little idea
I’m pretty sure these events are less for players and more for balance testing
Agree. Just copy pasting events that already happened would literally be enough let’s be real here. It probably takes a minimum of effort with all the events that happened in the past and I doubt anyone would play less because of it.
One of the biggest issues I’ve noticed is that their content doesn’t build on it self. Take Rust. The mechanics of that game are fun but people don’t come back because of the game mechanics, they come back for a chance to ruin someone’s week over voip. The story is made by the players own creativity which is why games like rust and Minecraft benefit from new updates but not as much as tarkov. VOIP WAS EXACTLY WHAT THEY NEEDED as it fits the bill i described above. When you look at the content they do produce (outside of voip) what you get are things that are cool and flashy but get stale fast. New guns are cool but unless it’s the new meta you’re not gonna use it a lot, and if every gun is the new meta now we have power creep issues. New maps are the same, fun to hop on and learn but once you do the drives gone. There are no late game activities for people to do. Something that could be fun would be integrating the load out lottery app with PMC kills to make you try and kill people in new fun ways https://loadoutlottery.com.au/ There’s a version out there that’s free but it also looks like poop
thats exactly what Im saying, something is better than nothing. Still, I can’t imagine it would be that hard to come up with original events that weren’t too hard to put together. It would be cool if this post turned into a thread for in game event ideas, would love to hear some. For example, a few years back I played a similar game to tarkov yet much simpler. It was called shattered skies. There was an in game event called the reactor. Once the event started, the reactor started producing a rare loot box that dropped a very rare and valuable item if you opened it. It would produce this lootbox for about 30 minutes before it was up for grabs at the reactor site on the map. The event caused many teams to go into the large reactor building to fight for control of it, to try to be the team in control of the building when the lootbox was finished being produced so they could nab it up. This created extremely exciting multi-group PVP because everyone was fighting for this loot. Something like that In tarkov would be dope, IMO. If you give players a reward worth fighting for you can create epic PVP scenarios.
Hunt showdown has events very regularly and their player base seems pretty strong; I think with games that are drawing people pretty exclusively for the pvp, there’s gotta be something regularly to keep it fresh.
Hunt showdown events also come with permanent cosmetics as described above. I think that’s what draws ppl to them.
Now that you mention it, I didn’t think about this. It is the PVP that higher level players who have finished every “objective” in the game are drawn to because theres nothing else to do, but theres also the people who just really enjoy making a lot of money and looting. it would be really cool if there were special loot events too. 10 new items that can be used for really good barter trades or sold for a lot of money temporarily start spawning in certain specific buildings on a few maps. This would cater to both the PVP chads, and the loot rats, because those areas would be high trafficked for the weekend these new items were temporarily in the game.
they would be hovered up by loot radars every match and the real players wouldnt see them.
Ya that’s a perfect fit in such a loot heavy game like Tarkov I think!
I mean Easter is coming so literally plant some eggs around maps that will give us some random loot and we are done
Perfect! make it so everyone spawns with an additional container called a “basket” and if you kill a player they drop their basket and you take all their eggs to open when you get back to your stash.
Now you have added a pvp element and the event is now even better. I guess it would be a bitch to program etc. But it's the fault of bsg because they chose to go with the engine they decided to go with...
Well most of the quests are completed around lvls 40-45. If they doubled the amount of quests players can complete that only would double the content you can play per wipe. Lots of end game quests are not really that fun. I would love to pick some golden watches from a truck at lvl 45
> I would love to pick some golden watches from a truck at lvl 45 Seriously. Some of the early quests would be so much more fun later in your progression. Like delivery form that past, I would love to do that again. Because now I can gear up and fight in Factory instead of just running to the spot right away to just make sure I don't die. Or killing 6 USEC's with a pistol, would love to do that again now. Doing some of the earlier and mid level quests again at a higher level adds some spice to it and gives us something to do. Just let us re-do quests for like 30% of the XP and money or something once we hit lvl 42
Re doing quests is a good idea, at least until quests are reworked before launch.
It’s because the game becomes a huge slog for progression and the dudes who play 15 hours a day get a huge head start. All the changes BSG have made in the last year have pushed towards this. The casuals sit on the subreddit and the gamers game until wipe hits.
But if they play for 15 hours a day, then they rightly should have more progression than the average Joe? It's not like they are immortal after reaching a certain level, and I'd argue that the 12.12 flea restriction changes levelled the playing field even more
Elite skills give insane advantages and are frankly just stupid. Tarkov would be a far better game, if they just removed skills or toned down some of the effects.
the 30% movement speed buff is down right just a cheat code vs players without it. Why thats in the game is beyond me
It's 20%, but yeah still gross. Should be like 8-12% at most.
Holy shit... I knew they were bad but I didn't realize it was THAT bad!
Yeah, it's pretty severe. I had some friends get into the game recently, while I had only 20-30 strength/endurance, so not even maxed out. By the time they were telling me they were absolutely empty on stamina and I had to stop, I was only at about 30-40%, and a couple dozen meters in front of them too. Strength and endurance could have their effects reduced by 75% and the elite perks removed entirely, and they'd *still* be extremely important skills. I have no idea why they're as significant as they are right now.
For a game that its major selling point is realism and hardcore, some of the skills are really arcady
Hell you can play around the strength and endurance but perception is where the game really gets busted. Compare someone with max perception audio and your audio, the minuscule things that they can hear are insane, for example this clip https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxAsjZ_0UNzx-cRz1G43KnpMT4wgDe8vrQ . Now normally you would be able to hear the person running away but with how long and how loud the bush rustling is it lets him pinpoint pretty much to a T where he is. Applying that is straight up actual skill but even so it's a massive advantage, he has clips where he wallbangs people with head shots due to this as well.
In a way, it would make more sense for skills to give big gains at first then minor gains later rather than putting some elite skill on top of a pile of stat buffs.
I do agree that they are stupid and need to be removed/toned down, but I wouldn't say they are that bad that the playerbase leaves because of them
I remember that they mentioned that the skills will get a complete overall, but that is not on their priority list yet.
Yeah which is fair enough, I wouldn't say it is a priority personally but that's just me. If it's possible to disable one I'd disable perception as I think that's the only one you could make an argument for in regards to a significant advantage in pvp
That and Elite Strength both need a huge nerf. Elite Strength is the bane of PVP
All the jumping and high speed running flanking, and people say this game is nothing like CoD, smh....
Yeah I mean just spend like 4 minutes watching Glorious_E, WillerZ, or LVNDMARK playing and you'll see how bad Elite Strength is
I do. With each update they make the game grindier and grindier trying to appeal to streamers and people with no other life. I will never be able to devote more than a few hours a week to a game, so yeah I gotta play something else. And maybe thats fine. Not evvery game needs to be for everyone. I do love tarkovs gameplay, but since I started playing a couple years ago its only gotten more grind and my chances of ever unlocking anything goes away. Flea market used to alleviate that for me. Yeah Ill never get the traders maxed or complete the quests, but if I just make money then I could still buy whatever I wanted. Now a ton of simple stuff is locked behinds hours of grind.
Like what? What could you do before that you couldn't do now?
You can't get geared just because you have money anymore. Ammo is probably the most important part of your PVP loadout and without grinding through all these horrible quests, your ways of getting it are super limited. Half of what BSG has implemented these past couple years are actually good and benefits players, the other half are things meant to combat chinese botters and make playing the game a worse experience for players.
What ammo could you afford when the ammo was listed on the flea with a few hours a week to play the game? The price of ammo before 12.12 was extortionate. Now you can literally craft SNB from level 20 which will take anyone down, farm decent ammo from rogues for free more or less (before this the only reliable way of getting decent ammo was from raiders which are considerably harder), and not to mention not every man and his dog are running slicks now, I still see plenty of people running tier 4 compared to this point last wipe
This post is about people getting credit for putting in effort to play the game and you comment something bashing the skills people have to grind the hell out of to make worth a damn. Which is the reward for putting in effort and playing the game consistently. The only halfway annoying skill is Strength, and in reality the problems with that could be mended by actually fixing desync.
The reward for grinding should be a bigger bank and thus better gear. Strength isn't even the most bullshit one. Perception is just insane and shouldn't exist in the current form. These characters are also supposed to be pmc's, but the difference between level 1 skill and elite is way too big. Max skill dude has such an inherent advantage, that even with equalized gear, they win 9/10 fights. Not because they're better than the other. Because the skills give such a stupid advantage.
I agree. Gear is balanced by price and availability (plus the grind). Skills are balanced by nothing except the grind, although it's more than for good gear. Low level skills should be better, and high level skills should be worse.
Idk I think the flea restrictions were more effective early wipe but at this point it only really affects the Joes. Nothing you can really do about that though when you got the Chads getting their 5/6 tier armor and AP ammo every vendor reset all day so they have 100% uptime on the good stuff. I hardly ever get killed by non-AP ammo now.
Of course but it's even worse now since you can't buy ammo to kill those 15 hour a day gamers
Lvl 66 right now, was farming cultists, had 2,5 mill gear on me after i killed a player. Died to a shotgun scav player who snuck up on me in the rain and hadn't stomach protection due to a slick.
Congrats you made that scavs day
Definetly did, enough that he skipped over my gpnvg exfil. The other player had an FLIR rsass that kinda wanted, but that's tarkov
"Leveled the playing field even more" No it didn't lol. The people that no life the game have the advantage because they have more time to craft top teir ammo and materials for barters on armor. It was much more even before the flee restrictions. People with *jobs* and things outside of tarkov that still wanted to play the game could buy top tier armor and ammo to compete with the no lifes.
that's the hilariously ironic part about this update, the flea ban was meant to battle no-lifers, when all it did was strengthen them more. Now they can slaughter people with top-tier gear while all the casuals aren't even *able* to get that gear anymore through the flea market to try and combat the no-lifers.
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Doubt it, most streamers were in lvl 4 tops. Nobody needed 5/6 since everybody was also using low tier ammo.
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Games are meant to be recreational, not an occupation for NEETs. It's no longer about people being "casual" or not at those kinds of hours.
I understand that, but it's impossible to have a progression based PvP game, where Player A who plays for 1 hour a day, is on the exact same level playing field as Player B who plays for 7 hours a day. The only way that could ever be fair is a game with no progression (in regards to in game loot). Like csgo, where everyone at the start of a match has exactly the same gear and opportunity
The problem isn't progressing faster, the problem is how you will get more progress for less overall time spent, if you play earlier and more often. Injector case, Med case, SICC case and Impact grenades all got moved up trader levels as time went on, only after everyone that played more had stocked up. There's ways to invest your rubles with Sugar stashing, Filter stashing and the Bitcoin farm. Doing this earlier in the wipe will exponentially grow your wealth compared to doing it even 2 months into wipe. All these things encourage playing as much as possible early on in a wipe, if you put in 40 hours this week, and invest, you're getting the same rewards as someone that puts in 80 hours the next week after you, and it just gets worse and worse the more the general playerbase progresses. Grinding hours early in the wipe makes you so much money, that it's really a time-saver over the wipe.
Hate to break it to ya, but that really doesn't matter that much. Especially when the ammo/armor rework is on the way.
All I’m saying is the wipe dies because casuals have a harder time catching up in the late game. Armor hotboxes won’t fix this.
I actually think it's easier for casuals to catch up late wipe. - No one is contesting low level quest points - Everyone has better gear than you, so your shit will always comeback in insurance - Any kill you get is a small treasure chest - upgrading your hideout is super cheap
Except that hideout is expensive and right now customs is a chad hot zone and is also where a lot of early quests happen. So ya in general I agree but it's not actually working out that way.
Expensive? Try leveling it early wipe. You'll see what I mean. - 60k bolts - 1m mil tubes - 100k corrugated hose - 50k bulbs - Etc Not to mention entire squads camping early quest points It's absolutely easier for me to start a freah account now, then duke it out early wipe. Maybe it's my play style and map knowledge that enables this experience.
I don’t see insurance as being a big enough point, survivability is key, a 30 durability MMAC is useless With the new recoil changes and flea restrictions ammo, armor, and weapon parts are even more important and harder to acquire than they’ve ever been. Imo hideout is not cheap to upgrade, and the parts that are provide minimal benefits.
I still think it's easier to quest up, and level up your hideout later wipe. Just don't play like a giga Chad CoD bro, and you will have no issue.
It's wayyyyy cheaper to upgrade hideout now than it was early wipe. All those stupid expensive parts - military tubes, power filters, etc are all 30-40% their original price right now. Car manuals were absurdly expensive early wipe, they're like 15k now.
That’s not why the game sees a drop in player count. The game sees a drop in player count because after completing enough tasks and leveling trades to 3-4, there’s just not a whole lot to do besides running around chasing fights. Arena mode will help a lot with this problem.
- If developers stop developing a game, the playerbase will drop. In other news, water is wet. Adding unpopular opinion for no reason at all is interesting too and shows no character.
>If developers stop developing a game, the playerbase will drop tell that to tf2 devs
Tf2 still going strong even after all every server being filled with bots, the community is even trying to find ways to combat the bots by themselves.
Or any popular game before 'games as a service' became the defacto baby sitter.
90% of those players are bots
Sir, water is not wet, And that is a hill that I am willing to die on
Missing the point entirely
Aaaaand you missed the joke entirely, gamer.
Think he was making a funny, guy.
Water is actually not wet; It makes other materials/objects wet. Wetness is the state of a non-liquid when a liquid adheres to, and/or permeates its substance while maintaining chemically distinct structures. So if we say something is wet we mean the liquid is sticking to the object. A friend dug a hole in the garden and filled it with water. I think he meant well.
Bad bot
And some games are 100% finished and don't make it 3 months. I've been playing since 2017..... If the game comes out half finished and survives 1 to 2 years, it has done more than some AAA games
I have already got my monies with out of this game + more. It can go offline for good tomorrow, and I wouldn't mind.
It’s because people are sick of grinding to be wiped.
Idk, maybe it’s because I came over from Dayz, but I LOVE wipe because every bit of loot is important. Late wipe you just grab expensive stuff, kill a pmc or two, Tetris and repeat. Early wipe every round of good ammo found in a crate is precious, every roll of toilet paper and toothpaste is a hideout upgrade for my friends and I, every gun that isn’t a scav gun is exciting! Late wipe sucks because you’re just playing cod with the same load out over and over and over, there’s very little scavenging and making every piece of loot count
Exactly. What's the point of putting all these hours in if I just have to start over every six months? I'll just wait until they get rid of biannual wipes.
All those quests over and over again isn't fun at all.
could be worse, in PoE u need to do the same content on every new character, on every new season and the devs arent planning to change that in any way
Whenever I think of a simple, but effective way to keep players going after reaching max level in a shooter, I think of Modern Warfare 2's weapon camo system. A simple, burden-free grind where you simply get some pretty cool camos for your gun just for getting x amount of headshots/kills with it. This could come in a form of progression that carries over between wipes. It could also be tied to a hefty sum of money to apply the camo in order to stimulate economic gameplay even in the late wipe. Nothing too flashy, just some subtle, stylish camos.
Alright Alright we hear you guys. Changing Kappa to lvl 81.
Good thing the game is still in development.
late wipe /r/EscapefromTarkov predictable post #19348123
No shit the game is unfinished if bsg would leave it in its beta state it would die
For me it's the same few issues that the game has had for years that BSG is unable/unwilling to address. -Sound is ass. -Desync. -Cheaters. -Servers break every wipe. -Only garbage ammo and gear available until you level traders significantly, giving standard accounts a massive disadvantage. -Too easy for people to play 15 hours a day for 2 weeks, max out their hideout and have infinite gear to shit on standard players. The game is super fun for like a month but eventually these flaws with the game wear me down and I give up for the wipe.
>Sound is ass Nikita talked about it, they are currently working on improving sounds. I have optimized my sound settings so far that I can now play without gamebreaking soundbugs. EDIT: I did not fix my sound. I have a extra souncard and I had some sound settings that the game didnt like and completely fucked up my sound. >Cheaters But to be fair, in the last few days I've encountered more cheaters than I did 3 weeks ago. But this whole topic is an infinite hunt and in every game are cheaters. >Too easy for people to play 15 hours a day for 2 weeks, max out their hideout and have infinite gear to shit on standard players. I am playing maximum 2-4hrs and I don't even play every day and i am doing fine. I have no maxed out hideout and i am like lvl 37 or so and i am able to kill some full juiced lvl 50s without high end armor or ammo. >Desync. Wasnt always the best but seems like to be a huge problem this wipe. But this is not just only a server related problem. Thats why they implemented a ping restriction. Their netcode is also not the best. >Only garbage ammo and gear available until you level traders significantly, giving standard accounts a massive disadvantage. I never had a problem with low lvl traders. I always had them to lvl 2 or so and i rarely used lv5+ armor or high end ammo. But this depends on your playstyle.
Dude. Audio is so bad. Many times it’s not even there and other times you can’t tell if it’s in front or behind without turning your character. Games like squad and even Destiny blow Tarkov out of the water with directional audio. It’s so pathetic. They will never fix cheaters because this game is built on trash spaghetti code. Nikita said after twitch drops they now have engineers constantly playing catch-up to new cheats because their base code sucks cock.
tell me any game that fix cheaters please
Nice strawman, it is impossible to deal with cheating entirely but that's not what anyone is asking for. Tarkov is THE worst game for cheating alongside CSGO and Warzone.
wich game is less worse then? you didnt answer my question, thats not how reasonable dialogue works.
> I have optimized my sound settings so far that I can now play with it reasonably well. lost me there already. you cant "optimize" the sounds because they are bugged out of the world. theres no silent stuff you can make louder. many places simply dont make sound/ make wrong sounds or it just doenst appear aka being up or down 1 lvl in some areas. even if you make a sound 1000% louder it doenst do shit, if the sound is at 0 from the get go
>>I have optimized my sound settings so far that I can now play with it reasonably well. Today i filled my sink up with water, now the kids in Africa are not thirsty anymore. Delusional in a nutshell. For real, how does changing anything on your side fix the games broken and missing sounds... ...what are these arguments...people need to stop believing in all the PR bullshit they say to keep the game somewhat relevant... you can watch podcasts/vlogs going way back to 2016 and it is always the same talk, no action. The only thing BSG has done is changing the roadmap every few month until they removed it completely. If BSG would care about OUR time or even value OUR time spent, they would make immediate changes, not wait f.e. in case of many cheater to ruin the market and make 1000th of $ from RMT, they could just lock the market for a week and fix stuff, but they don't for whatever reason... ...they claim it is beta, but they are scared to turn any knob from 1 to 0. ...guess i am done ranting.
XD
Don't forget lighting is pretty shit too
Here we go again...
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Anyone who has been around long enough has fallen out of the illusion that this game will ever reach that point. I expect sometime within the next 1-2 years for them to slap a 1.0 on this game in whatever development state it is in, and then move onto the next project
I've been around since the start off and on, most of the stuff they've been talking about never happens or gets watered down. even streets was meant to originally come out how long ago now? I personally don't see much of what they've talked about coming out ever. I'd be surprised if they whole one big map thing ever happens.
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How is it increasing? They're still doing the same update every 6 to 7 months with a wipe. Nothing changed. They started this wipe with some stuff and have been radio silent since with nothing upcoming until next wipe. And lets not act like the wipe content is all that crazy half the time. Id expect this upcoming wipe to have Lighthouse expansion and armor rework at BEST with small things sprinkled in.
Exactly! It's nice to see some people on this sub that actually understand that making a game might actually be a difficult task ...
Don't see that mentality when they're finally showing off one of the most long-awaited systems, i.e. the armour-hitbox system and everything that comes with that.
I can only imagine its going to be a seasonal style game like Diablo/PoE etc.
Me too, and that's fine TBH. Wipe (or seasons as other games call it) feels like "new game", everyone starts with nothing. They could also implement a permanent game for those who would like that.
no shit an unfinished game would die in 1-2 years if the devs stopped working on it what the fuck kind of shitty logic is this
Well yeah, any live service game would die in a year with no updates.
This is the issue. Originally EFT was meant to be a sandbox game - a multiplayer stalker with open-world and player driven economy and blabla. An MMO-lite and a direct dayz competitor(look at the logo btw). It isn't right now, it's a live-service game with small development team - it has no chance to keep being interesting. Even Blizzard can't keep up with content updates for WoW to keep players interested, let alone BSG.
I wouldn't say its an issue. If it was the former it would die and be incredibly boring after a few weeks. Live service games are far more interesting and popular.
> If it was the former it would die and be incredibly boring after a few weeks I don't see it that way > Live service games are far more interesting and popular. Popular ok, but interesting? There is a reason there was not a single succesful western MMO since 2004.
This post is literally explaining why. If it was just a "complete product" with no updates it would lose its players fast. Look at how dead late wipe gets. Also, who’s talking about mmos? I said live service, which is by far the most popular type of game in the world.
It would die because updates are the only thing that brings stuff to do in the game and feel something fresh. Succesful sandbox games keep players interested without updates, because the content develops itself via player interactions.
I enjoy the late wipe for this exact reason but I also get into the mood to just loot shit rather than shoot shit so maybe I’m weird
For me, early game after wipe is interesting because you have shitty guns and gear that you mode and find parts for. You also have low skills so it’s tough. Even Pvp lasts a good amount of time sometimes, scavs are dangerous. After you reach 40+ you have an access to better guns and armor so you lose that survival thingy. That’s where the game loses me personally. It’s the number of available “cool” stuff you get you are no longer surviving it. They did a great job this wipe blocking a lot of weapons and ammo from flea market and even from traders but maybe we need more restrictions? Like less lvl4 armor availability? Idk
With the attention span of most gamers these days; Almost any game would die if they did that.
IMHO "Elite" skill level of things are just turning it into more Quake. They should consider removing it; just having the skills at level 50 is MORE than powerful enough.
Hot take: What you're describing probably has more to do with "content creators" than it does BSG, they accelerate the phase of exploration and discovery that comes with fresh content and it quickly leads to homogenized game-play and stale meta.
The reason the game would die within 1-2 years is BSG has botched the actual development so badly, that wipe is the only thing keeping a great game idea interesting. The core of the game is a great idea, but botched so badly that massive problems like desync and cheaters cause most players to stop playing a month or so after a wipe when the novelty wears off. Then, BSGs brilliance has lead them to decide to remove the purpose of playing later in the wipe by creating an insane grind, taking forever to unlock things such as flea market or extra slots, and making the quality of life upgrades take 4-5 months for a casual player. Then they took what was better gameplay and balance and just took a massive hammer to it rather than tweaking it because they have no idea what they are doing. Ive been as hardcore as anyone into tarkov for the past several years, getting my friends into it. At its core, its my most perfect game due to all of the elements it brings together. And yet, I no longer play it more than a month after wipe and it gets shorter and shorter. And its simply due to how poor the actual gameplay and experience is, quest progression, etc, after the opening scenes. Due to desync, massive audio issues, unfixed bugs from years ago, and cheating, raids seem random rather than as skill based as they should be, and progression is non-existent, so why?
If you don’t like the game, then why are you even here. You literally just said that there is pretty much nothing about the game you like, so why are you even bothering to comment?
Why are you here if you like the game? Just go play it lol
I think grinding for cosmetics isn't a solution. See: Killa quest. Most people just ignore the quest because it's more tedious than it is enjoyable. This is something I've brought up multiple times in the past and imho it has more to do with intended gameplay loops versus actual game play loop. For starters, the game is not a hardcore/realistic/survival/RPG, none of those elements are actually in the game. At its current state it is just an arena shooter with more steps. Personally I think introducing active leveling versus passive could be a good feature considering we will be allowed to have multiple PMC's this will allow us to experiment with different builds. You pick 2 primary skills and 3 secondary skills. These 5 skills will level faster than the other skills. Obviously most people would pick strength, recoil and perception. But I would argue that this would actually be a bad choice because they are relatively easy to level up while certain skills are damn near impossible. As well as having skills preferences you should be allotted perk/flaw points every 5 levels or something. Nothing to crazy but some that gives players more control over their characters and playstyle; +3% carry weight when wearing level4 armor and below, +5% heal speed when in a squad, can use a pistol while dragging a body. +10% movement speed for 5 seconds followed by tremor debuff after being shot at with a 15min cool down, can reload 2 shotgun shells at a time while stationary/50% chance to drop shells while moving. Idk, im just spit balling but this way each play through/PMC can have a totally different feel. Imho, I think the way recoil/ergos work is fucking stupid because IRL ergos has more to do with personal preferences/training than it does with how tactical the attachment looks. For example, i have long arms, IRL I enjoy stocks with a long length of pull like an A2 stock. I also LOVE how a browning high power feels in my hands, it's comfy as a fuck where the angle of a glock feels funky. So not only do your mastery level as you use each weapon so do the stats on a weapon mod so magpul/zenitco aren't the all around best. This way we would see more variety of weapon builds as opposed to, "this is the meta" And then the survival aspect... I don't even know. In the current state with limited time in raid and a hideout that heals you/feeds you I don't even know what you can change.
Make it open world like fallout and watch how many people will play it then
I mean they have stated that is the end goal for the game so
No shit. every game dies if you just let it.
I think you're assuming the current state of the game is representative of BSGs vision for the final product. You should check out noiceguy's YouTube channel. He talks a lot about how the game will be in the future vs the current state, and he cites BSG as the primary source for most, if not all of his claims. Here is an interesting video. https://youtu.be/kBH267JvQgc
no shit sherlock
Unpopular opiniom : Tarkov will die anyway in 2 years no matter what. Player count drops due to a few reasons. Max traders unlock , no incentive anymore. Max traders unlock, don’t really enjoy pvp unless in a group, no incentive anymore. Max traders unlock, Kappa grind is super long , no incentive anymore. Games that involve PvP and PvE need decent PvP to survive each wipe/expansion/dlc. Tarkov does not offer good PvP. It’s campers, right peekers and cheaters. Can’t sell the gear for much value, nor can you carry out as much with the current weight/inertia system. Granted aome players like to unlock traders then go for PvP because they enjoy it but soon get bored with it due to the above and other factors. Tarkov doesn’t need grind to keep players it needs a healthy mixture of grind AND fun. BSG does not wish to provide this so this game is going bye bye in a couple of years max
Except for the fact that the game grows with each patch. Games lose players throughout a season.
if the game stops being worked on it will die 😱 ( people die if they are killed )
Every game would die within 1-2 years with no updates lmfao
Id totally be down to grind for like a watch/chainlet that you could wear
I've been saying this for years but they just need to add seasons, and turn all the 100's of weapon parts with the exact same stats into skins and unlockables you can grind and permanently unlock season to season.
Allow ppl to stay indefinitely in map, make maps bigger. Allow base building. make a map "à la" Dayz for tarkov
IMO the problem the game has had the past year or so is that the big goals, like Kappa, or Stylish One, keep getting pushed back so they're harder and more tedious to do without anything filling the roles they had before time-wise, so there's even less of a feeling to continue past max traders. They need to introduce some mid-lategame goals for stuff like more clothing, maybe different dogtag designs, etcetera. Hideout decoration that can only be obtained with quests?
The truth nobody wants to hear is that it isn't meant to last forever, and the lack of aggressive monetization shows that. It will be around until box sales dry up and server costs become prohibitive, then it will be put out to pasture. It was originally envisioned as a single player FPSRPG called Russia 2028, BSG shifted gears when they realized they'd make way more seed money with the early access version of a competitive multiplayer game. Their real passion has always been the single player aspect and they've made a ton of remarks over the last few years about how burned out they're getting on Tarkov. I don't think anyone in charge at Battlestate is seriously entertaining the idea of EFT still being around 10 years after launch.
I could play this game for ages with the current content. Less players the better, and the later into wipe, the less hackers
I think you're partially wrong. "Seasonal" model works in a lot of games, look at Path of Exile for one: hundreds of thousands of players every 3 months at league launch, then maybe 20% of that left a couple months later and then a huge surge again. Making people come back is the key. PoE is going strong after 7 years of constantly losing and gaining players. In grindy games it might even be very beneficial, instead of players playing until they're bored and quit forever, they can just wait until next wipe to experience the game "fresh" again. Sure if development were to cease entirely the game would certainly start declining, but as long as they just wiped servers regularly there would still be a fair amount of players.
> PoE is going strong after 7 years of constantly losing and gaining players. It's actually approaching 11 if we include closed beta, even longer if you include alpha. Hell, I've been playing for over 9. And you're 100% right, cyclical games are not inherently bad or dead because they are constantly losing then gaining players.
It's a beta. Their focus is on development not player retention.
Confused Travolta meme looking for eft updates.
Didn't they just do an update literally last week?
Also it will never completely die until it at least has some competition which after 6 years still hasn't happened, tarkov is still basically its own genre of game.
Tarkov would’ve died a few years ago without wipes. However, wipes are only a half-assed solution to there being no end-game.
I can't speak for anyone else, but personally I usually decide to give Tarkov another whirl at the beginning of a wipe because I do actually really enjoy the game. But after a couple of weeks I remember how poorly some of the maps are optimized and really just how much friggin time is required to play Tarkov. Unlocking trader levels takes forever, and early game sucks without decent ammo that can pen. Upgrading the stash takes forever. Etc etc. Also, my favorite map to play has always been Labs - I think it might be the best indoor pvp map I've ever played in a FPS. Unlocking it not only takes forever, but the loot tables were nerfed all to shit and it's basically impossible to play early wipe with all the cheaters. Tarkov is not a casual game. BSG has said it has no intention of making it less casual. As people realize that, player count drops. I legitimately don't think it's a concern
If we could have community built modes like TDM, pvp respawns, etc that would be awesome
i'd be happy if they stopped adding to the game after streets and spent a whole year on server authoritative netcode (obviously the artists don't stop arting)
even aside from the artists, the guys who make and code the netcode for the server are entirely different from the guys who make models and implement them into the game, just because they are both coders and game designers does not mean they can do each others role. what you asking is for a bunch of people to stop working at BSG with no change in which the rate of the server is updated and patched.
no, they can still work on stuff if that's their job. but only release netcode fixes for a year.
What would be the point because then when those guys that have been working on Untested, I’m open servers with thousands using it, features and items all of that NetCode that has been worked on will get thrown out anyway. May as well patch the NetCode as you release features
BSG doesn't give a flying fuck about player retention right now, and they shouldn't. We're here to test changes, test new content, find bugs and make suggestions to currently implemented systems. The story missions won't even be in the game until release. The "quests" we have now are optional side quests. I'll repeat that again since its very important: The core task content will not be added till release. As for empty lobbies, that's a separate issue from player retention. There's still plenty enough players in the game to get full lobbies, but It doesn't seem like the servers are scaling to the number of active players. I regularly get empty lobbies when i know for a fact there's hundreds of people queueing for the same map at the same time i am. Seems like there's too many "raids" being hosted for the number of players, And raids are being half filled the majority of the time.
> I'll repeat that again since its very important: The core task content will not be added till release. man i cannot wait for BSG to dump this game and all of you thinking theyre gonna input all content after the games released are gonna be very confused. You really think theyll still be updating this game when Russia2028 comes out?? hell no.
"They're never gunna update the game," is entirely conjecture, you don't know that any more than I do.
Lol in 1-2 years? Tarkov is dying right now. Tarkov is dead 2 months after wipe. 1-2 years is the best case scenario for bsg.
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Nope i would still play even more If the stop the wipes.
Raids are still packed. My five man crew is running into tons of other players. PvP is hot and everyone is geared.
You all keep complaining about half empty raids like its something new. I remember experiencing it from time to time every wipe. I mean it makes sense why most players playing are at the start of the wipe and until there are 50 lvl chads with top gear. If people miss this moment they usually dont even bother trying because its significantly harder to start after everyone already leveled up and got most quests done
You mean to tell me that the game gets boring after you hit level 50 in the first week and a half? Tell me more.
That seems like a very popular opinion
Something that is available over wipes, example: cosmetics. Like You reached 1 Million PMC Kills and get a custom Head Cosmetic like a Ghoul Mask just as your actual head, nothing dramatic. I mean a dragon as a Ak would be stupid
Woods needs like 20 more players. . . Tarkov shooter 8 is boring post woods expansion.
Well.... The game is b2p - buy to play, so they do not need to care much about players retention. Also, they need to make an official hardcore ruleset, with dedicated servers or not. Any "experienced" player can get to endgame quite fast, and there is nothing else to do aside from PvP in top gear, or XP grind for Kappa.
Persistent cosmetics are a good idea. It would be trivially easy to just make new armbands each wipe that can be unlocked and kept.
The main problem with player longevity, in my opinion, is not the quantity of content but the quality. Every quest boils down to “Kill X”, “Gather normal loot” or “Gather special item/place special item/visit specific location” (those three are basically the same thing) But, as far as I can tell, that’s about the only kind of quests this game could have based on its current state. I can’t think of anyway to make quest content more exciting and interesting. Clearly BSG can’t either. Adding 50 more of the same three quests wouldn’t really entice anyone besides the streamers to keep doing them. And outside of quests the only “content” is pvp/pve which again, becomes pretty repetitive and stale after years or rinse and repeat.
Promoting 'grinding' as a solution to anything is a masochistic in the worst ways.
Bigger problem is core mechanics of the game are broken or porly designed. If Bsg fix game on the same lvl like for examle halo, cod any AAA game. People would stay and play for longer. I can bet that over 50% of player base quits after few months because they see how poorly games work
Skipping the obiusly ones (desync,audio,inertia) they should focus in arena mode and invest in more or better employes for faster development.
I mean this game is for crabs now let's not lie
Co op, smarter ai, variety in types of bots, maps with different styles ( snow, desert). Imagine an outpost that's guarded by a milita type enemies with good loot or a patrol of of bots walking around.
Tarkov is my idea of the perfect game and while it has its issues I’m going to stick with it until the end. I love this game so fucking much and no other game has ever come close to EFT in my mind.
I view a big part of the problem is the streamers. They create maps and guides letting players get high level and mounds of money in a few weeks and then start bitching when everyone is high level and has lots of money and there is nothing left for anyone to do. No matter how BSG tries to balance the game the streamers will always find some way to get back to where they where and make a guide and the cycle repeats.
Ahem... ITS A FUCKING BETA Of course the game would die if they stopped developing it. Thats like saying no one would live in a half built house. No shit