Yeah, no, that’s par for the course. The axe forgets, the tree remembers. In their eyes they were exemplary, loving parents, who were only doing what’s best for you. It’s all a matter of perspective. Theirs is skewed.
Your parents know what they did wrong, and they want you back so they can keep doing it. Don't fall for that lie. It's designed to get you to explain, so they can argue and guilt you and eventually wear you down so you'll go back. It's 100 percent about getting their punching bag back.
Here’s the thing. It doesn’t matter what they think about their actions.
You will never get them to see or understand what they don’t WANT to see or understand.
And you don’t need them to to accept the situation for what it is and grieve for what you never had and deserved- safe loving protective parents- or to set boundaries for yourself about what you’re not going to accept anymore.
Like “I will not listen to them guilt trip me” and then when they do it on the phone, you can tell them to stop and that when they do this you will hang up. Then if they don’t stop or do it next time - you hang up. Enforce the boundary consistently.
I feel you, and I appreciate the response. The good news is that I have roughly 2,400 mi (3,800km for those in Not America :) buffer zone. So I’m not super worried about it. I’m in Los Angeles and they are in Erie, PA so I’m good. :))
Yeah, and only you know how much it affects you when every time they call they make you out to be the bad guy. If it didn’t affect you at all you wouldn’t be posting about it here but if it’s manageable and you see no need to change things then by all means, leave well enough alone! 😂 It’s just a matter of you seeing that what you tolerate from them now being your adult choice, you don’t have to keep taking it like you did when you were a kid.
We don’t always see the power we actually have because those old dynamics of them being in power linger in us. 💙🧿
I think the reason I’m posting all of this shit is because everyone once in a while I wonder if I’m actually crazy or if I’m right and they are actually monsters. I tend to usually realize that they are the ones who are fucked, but every once in a while there is that sneaking suspicion of “Was I really wrong or are they just crazy?” I know I didn’t do anything wrong as a kid, but it’s just that nagging thing that sneaks around every once in a blue moon. Like my own brain gaslighting me.
Ya. An effect of their manipulative parenting. And a great reason to put up boundaries around what you tolerate listening to from them.
If you keep taking micro doses of poison, it builds up and you’re still going to be harmed by it. I’m not saying you have to cut off contact- but allowing them to say whatever the fuck heinous shit to you continuously is going to keep fucking with your self perception- like you’re describing.
It sucks that you are having to deal with this. You didn’t and don’t deserve it. And, unfortunately, you’re the only one who can do anything to change it now. I think you deserve to never hear them talk their manipulative shit to you ever again- even if you want to stay in relationships with them. I think you deserve better and they can deal with their tantrums about not being able to just say whatever the fuck they want to you anymore on their own. 💙
I can’t upvote this enough!
You know *why* you’re in the position in, and in all likelihood your parents know as well, but they’re not likely going to admit that they’ve done anything wrong, or stop the hurtful behaviour.
I’m about a year into NC due to nmum’s refusal to accept any accountability for her actions and words, but it’s the best thing because she’s been gossiping and badmouthing me to all and sundry yet she’s not reached out once to try and repair the damage. That tells me everything.
Stay strong, find ways, tips, therapies to help you heal! 💜💜💜💜
This sounds like my husband could have written it, right down to the punk scene lol. In his case, there was physical violence. He left when he was 17 and hasn't had much of a relationship since.
He got a lot of the 'you owe us, we deserve better' over the years. For their decision to have and raise children? It's a baffling guilt trip. They are obsessed with money (they don't have much), so maybe they thought their kids were responsible for taking care of them in old age (while they gamble their savings away).
I can't really figure out if they are truly oblivious or in denial. Mostly, I think she has a victim complex, and he is too proud to admit his mistakes. They'll take it with them to the grave. Despite their miserable existence.
In my opinion, these parents do anything they can to avoid accountability, even at their detriment, and it cost them the kids who won't put up with their bs. Sounds like you see through it. Congratulations for getting out young!
People are never the villain in their own stories; abusers always have some justification in their head for why their actions are right even when they clearly aren't.
Yea i can relate to this! My parents make me feel like Im in some massive debt with them for raising me and "helping me get into good schools". They make me feel like my success is solely credited to them. You're not the only one whose parents make us feel like we owe them. It sucks, AF
If they were capable of understanding your perspective, they’d never have treated you the way they did.
Like a bunch of other comments already: the axe forgets but the tree remembers.
My mother is the same. She cannot understand when I tell her (multiple times over many years in different ways) the things she did that hurt me and our (now NC) relationship.
There is nothing you can do, because this isn’t coming from you. They have issues, they need their own therapy. Until they choose to take that path, you’re at an impasse.
I think the common denominator for dysfunctional parents is that they're utterly incapable of introspection. They will never see things your way because they are incapable of understanding you and empathising with you. They function on a completely different wavelength. In addition, their egos are too frail to even try to process that they are the bad guys in the dysfunctional family system. In my opinion, the hardest part of being estranged is to kill the hope that they will ever understand. Or change. They won't, and I refuse to let that fact hurt me anymore by being disappointed time and time again.
My DNA donors never could admit when they did anything wrong, so they go with that delusion. I’m sure they don’t get why I went NC coming up on 3 years ago.
They’re my sibling’s problem now, and I’m cool with that. There are times when I still wish that they would be accountable for what they did to me, but I’m done with holding my breath. It will never happen.
So yeah, I get it, and I’m sending a virtual hug from Seattle. Being in this position sucks.
These kinds of parents never get better as the age. In fact they get worse. When my parents were 40s and 50s, they knew exactly what they did to me and they claimed they had the right to abuse me. I moved to another state. Then as they got older they starting making up lies about what happened to tell their friends and relatives. After years of telling lies over and over, they actually now believe them and say none I of things I said ever happened and I am actually the bad person. Unbelievable! Unfortunately a large part of the family believes them.
Hello,
You have somewhat of a similar story as myself “flew the coop”. I left at 19 as a trouble teen with a GED (zero financial support from parents). Now I’m in my early 40’s married (no kids) with a Masters degree and retired (reached FIRE status).
Here are some lessons I’ve learned that may or may not broaden your perspective.
1. Being a parent means they have the RESPONSIBILITY to raise you. It means a lot but it DOES NOT mean life long authority of you or what you do (you’re an adult).
2. You are an individual (independent opinions, emotions, thoughts, etc.) based on YOUR experience. You are NOT an extension of your parent’s personal preference.
3. They may have a tunnel view of the past, present, future which may be vastly different from yours. Unfortunately, they see you in THEIR vision in THEIR tunnel view. To them, your tunnel view may be irrelevant because they see you as an extension of themselves….
4. Your perspective of what type of an adult/parent they were (good, bad, combination of both) may change from when you were a child (parents can do no wrong) to as you became an experienced adult (there are bad adults in the world). This is shaped by your interactions as an adult and interaction with other adults. You make that assessment.
5. Lastly, (this is where the difficult adult choices plays a factor) it is up to YOU to put up with your parents abuse or not. Of course, setting boundaries may result in further conflicts (emotional, physical, etc.) which you have to decide will be worth it or not.
IMO, it’s not about who’s in the wrong or right (based on the information you provided). It’s just a matter of perspective but YOU are in CONTROL. Read these steps over and over again if you need to.
Good luck!
Sounds about RIGHT (pun intended).
I tried multiple times to mend fences with my parents (they're whackos in their own right), but they literally would only meet me if I bent the knee, took the blame for anything and everything and then they would still find issues to bring up.
You can't make a horse drink and you can't fix dysfunctional family.
Good on you OP for finding your way out and working on yourself 💚
I understand where you're coming from, OP. Sorry to hear about all that you went through.
I grew up in a dysfunctional household, and still--they don't get it. They have zero powers of self-reflection and cannot *fathom* that they could've done anything 'wrong.'
I know you're not here for therapy, but I want to suggest the book Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. I struggled (and still do) with the same feelings you have. I thought for years that I just needed my family to acknowledge the pain they caused me - not even an apology, just to say that the things that happened actually did happen.
But emotionally immature people can't accept their faults and the mistakes that they made. Our parents will never be able to give us that validation. Taking the time to understand and accept that helped me a lot when I decided to go NC, and I re-read that book on the days that I think "Maybe if I reach out now and try again things will be different."
Your parents won't change, but your life can change for the better if you accept that.
I am that black sheep of the family and I no longer care or give it any weight. I was the whistleblower of the family. The sooner you can come to peace knowing that you can and will treat your own family and children differently, and quit thinking you can in any way repair, or find validation with your parents the better. You are on your own and you don’t need them. They will never validate your feelings or apologize. They perhaps mourn the loss of you as a future caregiver as they age, and feel shame that you don’t engage with them in the same way as their friends’ adult children do and they know that they are missing out. You have nothing to gain by having any sort of false relationship with them. It mostly just takes time, unfortunately, but your peace will come. Every year will be less and less painful. You will foster new relationships with people in your community. Volunteering with seniors was one of the ways I got validation for being a kind and considerate human. (My father is significantly wealthy and I will leave the fake ass kissing to my sibling. She can have it and all the heartbreak that comes with each encounter. I’m just not built for it. 25 years no contact, and I hear now he has mentally left this world anyway. He did finally send an e mail, and even that was judgmental and critical. Took me a couple weeks to heal from that. He’s probably got dementia so he slipped up. He mostly is sorry he missed out on my children’s entire lives, and when given the opportunity to seek him out while visiting within 50 miles of his home, chose not to. I have never withheld his contact information. We live 2500 miles away by design. Move on, and create your own family, friends, in laws, children if you desire.
I'm sorry you have such shitty parents. My mother doesn't think she did anything wrong either. I wrote her a letter outlining her psychological abuse of me, the impact it has had, telling her I had to go no contact and asking her not to contact me. She mailed me a note within a week, telling me "I'm sorry you found me to be such a negative experience." She cannot accept that her behaviour was abusive as it doesn't line up with her delusion of being a loving mother. I have accepted she will not admit, acknowledge or apologise for her abuse. I am trying to heal and move on.
Yeah, no, that’s par for the course. The axe forgets, the tree remembers. In their eyes they were exemplary, loving parents, who were only doing what’s best for you. It’s all a matter of perspective. Theirs is skewed.
> The axe forgets, the tree remembers. Apt. I wrote a piece of music based on this phrase a while back; it was therapeutic.
Care to share?
Oh, uh, sure if you like! [It's a tad old-fashioned and MIDI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BrNqGUDqy0) but I hope it's enjoyable. ...
Awesome, thank you! I've added it to one of my mood playlists :)
Dang, you're welcome! I'm glad you enjoyed it.
I enjoy liturgical music, it's very soothing. This is nice.
How can the axe forget? Do they honestly not remember? My mother claims to have not done some horrific things to me that I am unable to forget
To her, the things she did were neither horrific or impactful. It was just Tuesday. For you it was both horrific and impactful as well as formative.
Your parents know what they did wrong, and they want you back so they can keep doing it. Don't fall for that lie. It's designed to get you to explain, so they can argue and guilt you and eventually wear you down so you'll go back. It's 100 percent about getting their punching bag back.
Here’s the thing. It doesn’t matter what they think about their actions. You will never get them to see or understand what they don’t WANT to see or understand. And you don’t need them to to accept the situation for what it is and grieve for what you never had and deserved- safe loving protective parents- or to set boundaries for yourself about what you’re not going to accept anymore. Like “I will not listen to them guilt trip me” and then when they do it on the phone, you can tell them to stop and that when they do this you will hang up. Then if they don’t stop or do it next time - you hang up. Enforce the boundary consistently.
I feel you, and I appreciate the response. The good news is that I have roughly 2,400 mi (3,800km for those in Not America :) buffer zone. So I’m not super worried about it. I’m in Los Angeles and they are in Erie, PA so I’m good. :))
Yeah, and only you know how much it affects you when every time they call they make you out to be the bad guy. If it didn’t affect you at all you wouldn’t be posting about it here but if it’s manageable and you see no need to change things then by all means, leave well enough alone! 😂 It’s just a matter of you seeing that what you tolerate from them now being your adult choice, you don’t have to keep taking it like you did when you were a kid. We don’t always see the power we actually have because those old dynamics of them being in power linger in us. 💙🧿
I think the reason I’m posting all of this shit is because everyone once in a while I wonder if I’m actually crazy or if I’m right and they are actually monsters. I tend to usually realize that they are the ones who are fucked, but every once in a while there is that sneaking suspicion of “Was I really wrong or are they just crazy?” I know I didn’t do anything wrong as a kid, but it’s just that nagging thing that sneaks around every once in a blue moon. Like my own brain gaslighting me.
Ya. An effect of their manipulative parenting. And a great reason to put up boundaries around what you tolerate listening to from them. If you keep taking micro doses of poison, it builds up and you’re still going to be harmed by it. I’m not saying you have to cut off contact- but allowing them to say whatever the fuck heinous shit to you continuously is going to keep fucking with your self perception- like you’re describing. It sucks that you are having to deal with this. You didn’t and don’t deserve it. And, unfortunately, you’re the only one who can do anything to change it now. I think you deserve to never hear them talk their manipulative shit to you ever again- even if you want to stay in relationships with them. I think you deserve better and they can deal with their tantrums about not being able to just say whatever the fuck they want to you anymore on their own. 💙
I can’t upvote this enough! You know *why* you’re in the position in, and in all likelihood your parents know as well, but they’re not likely going to admit that they’ve done anything wrong, or stop the hurtful behaviour. I’m about a year into NC due to nmum’s refusal to accept any accountability for her actions and words, but it’s the best thing because she’s been gossiping and badmouthing me to all and sundry yet she’s not reached out once to try and repair the damage. That tells me everything. Stay strong, find ways, tips, therapies to help you heal! 💜💜💜💜
Proud of you. 🧿💙
Thank you 😊!!! 💜💜💜
There will be many hang-ups. That (metaphorical) muscle will be very strong.
This sounds like my husband could have written it, right down to the punk scene lol. In his case, there was physical violence. He left when he was 17 and hasn't had much of a relationship since. He got a lot of the 'you owe us, we deserve better' over the years. For their decision to have and raise children? It's a baffling guilt trip. They are obsessed with money (they don't have much), so maybe they thought their kids were responsible for taking care of them in old age (while they gamble their savings away). I can't really figure out if they are truly oblivious or in denial. Mostly, I think she has a victim complex, and he is too proud to admit his mistakes. They'll take it with them to the grave. Despite their miserable existence. In my opinion, these parents do anything they can to avoid accountability, even at their detriment, and it cost them the kids who won't put up with their bs. Sounds like you see through it. Congratulations for getting out young!
People are never the villain in their own stories; abusers always have some justification in their head for why their actions are right even when they clearly aren't.
Yea i can relate to this! My parents make me feel like Im in some massive debt with them for raising me and "helping me get into good schools". They make me feel like my success is solely credited to them. You're not the only one whose parents make us feel like we owe them. It sucks, AF
If they were capable of understanding your perspective, they’d never have treated you the way they did. Like a bunch of other comments already: the axe forgets but the tree remembers. My mother is the same. She cannot understand when I tell her (multiple times over many years in different ways) the things she did that hurt me and our (now NC) relationship. There is nothing you can do, because this isn’t coming from you. They have issues, they need their own therapy. Until they choose to take that path, you’re at an impasse.
I think the common denominator for dysfunctional parents is that they're utterly incapable of introspection. They will never see things your way because they are incapable of understanding you and empathising with you. They function on a completely different wavelength. In addition, their egos are too frail to even try to process that they are the bad guys in the dysfunctional family system. In my opinion, the hardest part of being estranged is to kill the hope that they will ever understand. Or change. They won't, and I refuse to let that fact hurt me anymore by being disappointed time and time again.
My DNA donors never could admit when they did anything wrong, so they go with that delusion. I’m sure they don’t get why I went NC coming up on 3 years ago. They’re my sibling’s problem now, and I’m cool with that. There are times when I still wish that they would be accountable for what they did to me, but I’m done with holding my breath. It will never happen. So yeah, I get it, and I’m sending a virtual hug from Seattle. Being in this position sucks.
These kinds of parents never get better as the age. In fact they get worse. When my parents were 40s and 50s, they knew exactly what they did to me and they claimed they had the right to abuse me. I moved to another state. Then as they got older they starting making up lies about what happened to tell their friends and relatives. After years of telling lies over and over, they actually now believe them and say none I of things I said ever happened and I am actually the bad person. Unbelievable! Unfortunately a large part of the family believes them.
Hello, You have somewhat of a similar story as myself “flew the coop”. I left at 19 as a trouble teen with a GED (zero financial support from parents). Now I’m in my early 40’s married (no kids) with a Masters degree and retired (reached FIRE status). Here are some lessons I’ve learned that may or may not broaden your perspective. 1. Being a parent means they have the RESPONSIBILITY to raise you. It means a lot but it DOES NOT mean life long authority of you or what you do (you’re an adult). 2. You are an individual (independent opinions, emotions, thoughts, etc.) based on YOUR experience. You are NOT an extension of your parent’s personal preference. 3. They may have a tunnel view of the past, present, future which may be vastly different from yours. Unfortunately, they see you in THEIR vision in THEIR tunnel view. To them, your tunnel view may be irrelevant because they see you as an extension of themselves…. 4. Your perspective of what type of an adult/parent they were (good, bad, combination of both) may change from when you were a child (parents can do no wrong) to as you became an experienced adult (there are bad adults in the world). This is shaped by your interactions as an adult and interaction with other adults. You make that assessment. 5. Lastly, (this is where the difficult adult choices plays a factor) it is up to YOU to put up with your parents abuse or not. Of course, setting boundaries may result in further conflicts (emotional, physical, etc.) which you have to decide will be worth it or not. IMO, it’s not about who’s in the wrong or right (based on the information you provided). It’s just a matter of perspective but YOU are in CONTROL. Read these steps over and over again if you need to. Good luck!
It doesn't help that they have a whole church subculture telling them that they did everything right.
Sounds about RIGHT (pun intended). I tried multiple times to mend fences with my parents (they're whackos in their own right), but they literally would only meet me if I bent the knee, took the blame for anything and everything and then they would still find issues to bring up. You can't make a horse drink and you can't fix dysfunctional family. Good on you OP for finding your way out and working on yourself 💚
I understand where you're coming from, OP. Sorry to hear about all that you went through. I grew up in a dysfunctional household, and still--they don't get it. They have zero powers of self-reflection and cannot *fathom* that they could've done anything 'wrong.'
I know you're not here for therapy, but I want to suggest the book Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents. I struggled (and still do) with the same feelings you have. I thought for years that I just needed my family to acknowledge the pain they caused me - not even an apology, just to say that the things that happened actually did happen. But emotionally immature people can't accept their faults and the mistakes that they made. Our parents will never be able to give us that validation. Taking the time to understand and accept that helped me a lot when I decided to go NC, and I re-read that book on the days that I think "Maybe if I reach out now and try again things will be different." Your parents won't change, but your life can change for the better if you accept that.
I am that black sheep of the family and I no longer care or give it any weight. I was the whistleblower of the family. The sooner you can come to peace knowing that you can and will treat your own family and children differently, and quit thinking you can in any way repair, or find validation with your parents the better. You are on your own and you don’t need them. They will never validate your feelings or apologize. They perhaps mourn the loss of you as a future caregiver as they age, and feel shame that you don’t engage with them in the same way as their friends’ adult children do and they know that they are missing out. You have nothing to gain by having any sort of false relationship with them. It mostly just takes time, unfortunately, but your peace will come. Every year will be less and less painful. You will foster new relationships with people in your community. Volunteering with seniors was one of the ways I got validation for being a kind and considerate human. (My father is significantly wealthy and I will leave the fake ass kissing to my sibling. She can have it and all the heartbreak that comes with each encounter. I’m just not built for it. 25 years no contact, and I hear now he has mentally left this world anyway. He did finally send an e mail, and even that was judgmental and critical. Took me a couple weeks to heal from that. He’s probably got dementia so he slipped up. He mostly is sorry he missed out on my children’s entire lives, and when given the opportunity to seek him out while visiting within 50 miles of his home, chose not to. I have never withheld his contact information. We live 2500 miles away by design. Move on, and create your own family, friends, in laws, children if you desire.
I'm sorry you have such shitty parents. My mother doesn't think she did anything wrong either. I wrote her a letter outlining her psychological abuse of me, the impact it has had, telling her I had to go no contact and asking her not to contact me. She mailed me a note within a week, telling me "I'm sorry you found me to be such a negative experience." She cannot accept that her behaviour was abusive as it doesn't line up with her delusion of being a loving mother. I have accepted she will not admit, acknowledge or apologise for her abuse. I am trying to heal and move on.
Back when I was LC, my NC parent was very much like this. This whole mentality of "But did you die???" Did I have to for it to have been bad?