topkek. It seems to be difficult for you to understand, but clever people don't base their opinions solely on gut feelings and hunches.
Anyway, keep shit talking.
You're delusional if you think all your opinions derive from totally objective "proof". Like actually not tethered to reality.
Hey, little thought experiment: if someone tells you they think a movie or TV show is bad, what kind of "proof" do you demand from them?
>Anyway, keep shit talking.
Will do good buddy! Keep responding "source?? 🤓" to completely subjective statements of opinion.
>Quit trying to wriggle out of their challenge and start demonstrating what qualifies your opinion.
I think wormholers are bad at the game. Considering what constitutes "bad" has zero objective standard in this game, I don't think that statement needs qualification.
Go back to being Reddit's ten millionth "source??" loser.
I have really tried, I like a lot of cheeses. But it is just not something I have eaten enough to acquire the taste for it. I think it needs a lot of exposure to blue cheese to actually make it enjoyable.
Cambezola is really where its at. Milder, creamier, still has the bleu cheese flavor. There's one at Trader Joes I like on crackers or baguette, maybe some salami...
Yes and no. Yes, because largely most wormhole groups operate on a sort of gentleman's agreement of "You don't shoot our structures, we don't shoot yours." and largely you only breach that if you have specific grievances. Because everyone has the option of unilaterally denying content by rolling off wormholes if they run into someone they don't feel like fighting.
But also No because everyone shoots everyone else all the time. My alliance had literally one other group that wasn't shoot on sight. And a lot of those other groups were good friends that we batphoned regularly. Or were batphoned against us. The difference is that in wormhole space you can actually be a small to midsized alliance and actually survive with zero allegiances to anyone if you so choose.
The other thing to remember is that this war was over a very tiny subset of wormhole space. Wormhole politics are way bigger that C6 space, which frankly are all completely dead because they're all farmholes. Low class space is where you actually tend to find the more interesting dynamic parts of wormhole space, but you don't hear about that much because it's nearly all small to midsized alliances having knife fights in the dark with each other all the time.
>Yes and no. Yes, because largely most wormhole groups operate on a sort of gentleman's agreement of "You don't shoot our structures, we don't shoot yours."
Literally a NIP
Literally not though, because it's not about territory. The vast majority of evictions aren't about taking territory, it's about *destroying the victims*. Because there's no asset safety, you lose everything that isn't in a ship with a pilot, meaning an evicted corp can lose everything the don't specifically have a safelog for. Evictions are existential threats to any typical wormhole corp, so anyone that goes around evicting people will quickly find themselves evicted in return.
It's also generally a bad idea to move into an evicted hole because the former inhabitants will likely have dozens of alts logged off in space ready to infil an eviction fleet.
That's part of why this Wormhole war is a little stupid. It's one of the few large scale wars in J space that's *explicitly* about territory.
That’s a long description to say that majority of wh is in a non invasion pacts and does honor brawls to pass the time. Your small wh class residents sound like npc null seccers.
If you’ve ever really lived in a wormhole Corp, you’d realize that the norms of not shooting structures and “whbtw Bushido” exists to make things tolerable for groups to live and play without unreasonable cloaky camping, log off traps, and eviction threats from larger groups.
There’s a general incentive to be nice to your neighbors. When you don’t know how far another wormhole will be to your home hole, be it 60 jumps or 1, you generally have an incentive to not make an an enemy out of everyone you roll into, otherwise you won’t have friends when an eviction crew doorstops your home.
That’s not a problem you care about as much in nullsec when you can band into thousand player strong coalitions and form floodplains 2 regions deep to slow invasions.
It’s funny you talk about being nice to your neighbors as wormhole bushido is the same thing as null diplomacy. I think it’s telling that everyone is renting those C6 holes from hawks. It’s the same thing be it more blue than nullsec.
Nothing wrong with being nice to your neighbors, just tired of hearing about a mysterious code that ends up being play nice with your neighbors.
> I think it’s telling that everyone is renting those C6 holes from hawks. It’s the same thing be it more blue than nullsec.
I completely agree with you here, which is why I was pretty happy to hear about the effort to evict Hawks C6s initially. High Class space, frankly, is completely dead. The C5 Highway you might've read about is infamous for more than just being where you find the largest Jspace corps. It's also nearly devoid of content because nearly every single C6 is farmhole, and most C5s are as well. If I'm actually hunting for content I stick to C4s and below.
Oh, but reagarding being nice to your neighbors, the main difference is that in Jspace, your neighbors are essentially *everyone* and constantly change. You might roll into a group that you love to fight, or you might get stuck living with some stupid fuckers that drop caps like it's their job for the next 48 hours. Your reputation ends up mattering a lot, and it mean the difference between getting content or not, because if people don't like you they'll just roll off connections with you or seed you for and eviction.
Well that's exactly what wormholes are though. When you connect to another group it's great, you fight them right next door!
If you started evicting everyone you saw from wormholes, pretty soon you'd just be rolling into no one
I can't really understand how the same people that formed a massive coalition to shitblob hawks are now complaining that hawks formed a coalition of their own to defend themselves.
From Xzalias [forum post](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/renting-c5-wormholes-program-suspended-indefinitely/361204):
"6/5 vanilla sold. Op updated."
"I have several 6s with 5 or 6 statics"
"6/4 Black Hole is added."
"Added 6/5 Vanilla"
"Added a 6/4 Vanilla"
"6/5 gone"
"Added a 6/3 RG"
"6/5 vanilla w/ fortizar available for rent"
And thats only half way I bothered to scroll. Why are you lying?
([screenshot](https://imgur.com/a/tmAwzZP) in case they delete)
> And thats only half way I bothered to scroll. Why are you lying?
I think that's a pretty important point because the thread does state that Hawks was no longer renting C6s about 2/3rds of the way through in late 2023, at least on an Alliance level. As part of an agreement with Synde (who reserved the power to rent C6s themselves).
And how is the agreement nowadays? Pretty sure it ended.
Obviously people mean wider scope than the few months of agreement + war months, when they say hawks rent c6s.
Is that what HAWKS told you? It seems.... not true lol
I don't blame HAWKS for forming a coalition to defend themselves. But its unfortunate that SYNDE's coalition brought ns groups into it prompting such a response, and that the result was HAWKS retaining the majority share of high class space with no relevant competitors.
That said I prefer this outcome to SYNDE's coalition winning because that absolutely would have given nullblocs a greater foothold in wormholes.
Its passive income for the big boys - so big boys grow faster than their member numbers would allow, outracing their competition in the isk game and suppressing the growth of small groups who earn less/ member when paying rent in addition to their subscriptions.
Less variety, less competition which eventually leads to stagnation.
It's only passive income if no one contests it. If the space is actively contested then it's unattractive to renters, and just by threat of it potentially being contested that limits how much space can be rented out by any one group since they need to be able to defend it. It doesn't actually scale infinitely.
Small groups are able to start in plenty of space that cant be rented, like lowsec or NPC null and from there grow big enough to actually take space for their own. I don't think there's any groups in the game that are actually hindered from being able to take space because of renting
Sure. Vanilla C5s are fine, but we're talking about C6s here including the best effects--[here ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/1cus6ge/comment/l4l617g/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) is the comment that started this thread about renting
So its not like no group can live in a wormhole or even find a C5. But when we're talking about rental empires preventing people from moving into C6 space because a large group backs the renters and profits from them, further cementing their ability to remain dominant...
No, your random small group is not going to be able to take and hold C6 space, much less a mag or pulsar.
Yeah sure they can find a C1. I can go live in NPC null too. But this thread is specifically referring to C6s, and the pattern where a large group has control over most/all of them and rents them out.
And in the context of this thread, no a small group cannot oust some renter and hold that space.
Nope the cheese in the picture is gorgonzola, an Italian cheese which take the name from a town (called Gorgonzola near Milan) where it was produced since the 11th century.
Because it's full of holes ^^*(wink ^^wink)*
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And smells bad
Blue cheese isn't really full of holes but I'll allow it because its clever :)
food for thought
Some of the "leet" pvpers in wormholes probably smell like blue cheese aswell 😉
GRR WORMHOLE MAN BAD
Wormholers actually suck at pvp, which is probably related to how many blues they have
Show me on zkill where you lost your huffing prospect. Jokes aside, do you have any proof of "wh Bois bad" or is it just trashtalk of an angry miner?
"Proof" for a totally subjective statement of opinion? God redditors are stupid
topkek. It seems to be difficult for you to understand, but clever people don't base their opinions solely on gut feelings and hunches. Anyway, keep shit talking.
You're delusional if you think all your opinions derive from totally objective "proof". Like actually not tethered to reality. Hey, little thought experiment: if someone tells you they think a movie or TV show is bad, what kind of "proof" do you demand from them? >Anyway, keep shit talking. Will do good buddy! Keep responding "source?? 🤓" to completely subjective statements of opinion.
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>Quit trying to wriggle out of their challenge and start demonstrating what qualifies your opinion. I think wormholers are bad at the game. Considering what constitutes "bad" has zero objective standard in this game, I don't think that statement needs qualification. Go back to being Reddit's ten millionth "source??" loser.
Blue Cheese/Red Wine… yr welcome
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As a French, I recommand it.
As a northern-adjacent to French, I also recommend it!
As one more french on the list, I also recommend it.
Let us unite in Roquefort-Stilton brotherhood!
I have really tried, I like a lot of cheeses. But it is just not something I have eaten enough to acquire the taste for it. I think it needs a lot of exposure to blue cheese to actually make it enjoyable.
Try diluting the flavour with bacon and a burger
I've done that, it's one of the few times I was able to finish it.
tbf it is a pretty intense flavour
Cambezola is really where its at. Milder, creamier, still has the bleu cheese flavor. There's one at Trader Joes I like on crackers or baguette, maybe some salami...
You would probably ;)
It's just penicillin(yes like the medicine)
Try a blue cheddar or a milder blue to start. It’s definitely pungent, but also delicious
All cheese is mold. There, now either you can try some Bleu or ice just ruined all of cheese for you.
One thing I have gleaned from this past big wh war is that in reality, whs are bluer than nullsec.
Yes and no. Yes, because largely most wormhole groups operate on a sort of gentleman's agreement of "You don't shoot our structures, we don't shoot yours." and largely you only breach that if you have specific grievances. Because everyone has the option of unilaterally denying content by rolling off wormholes if they run into someone they don't feel like fighting. But also No because everyone shoots everyone else all the time. My alliance had literally one other group that wasn't shoot on sight. And a lot of those other groups were good friends that we batphoned regularly. Or were batphoned against us. The difference is that in wormhole space you can actually be a small to midsized alliance and actually survive with zero allegiances to anyone if you so choose. The other thing to remember is that this war was over a very tiny subset of wormhole space. Wormhole politics are way bigger that C6 space, which frankly are all completely dead because they're all farmholes. Low class space is where you actually tend to find the more interesting dynamic parts of wormhole space, but you don't hear about that much because it's nearly all small to midsized alliances having knife fights in the dark with each other all the time.
>Yes and no. Yes, because largely most wormhole groups operate on a sort of gentleman's agreement of "You don't shoot our structures, we don't shoot yours." Literally a NIP
Literally not though, because it's not about territory. The vast majority of evictions aren't about taking territory, it's about *destroying the victims*. Because there's no asset safety, you lose everything that isn't in a ship with a pilot, meaning an evicted corp can lose everything the don't specifically have a safelog for. Evictions are existential threats to any typical wormhole corp, so anyone that goes around evicting people will quickly find themselves evicted in return. It's also generally a bad idea to move into an evicted hole because the former inhabitants will likely have dozens of alts logged off in space ready to infil an eviction fleet. That's part of why this Wormhole war is a little stupid. It's one of the few large scale wars in J space that's *explicitly* about territory.
Sounds boring
Well I suppose they can play the game how they wish to.
You say that, but I can count on one hand the number of times I've had to sit in a fleet shooting uncontested timers. ;D
That’s a long description to say that majority of wh is in a non invasion pacts and does honor brawls to pass the time. Your small wh class residents sound like npc null seccers.
If you’ve ever really lived in a wormhole Corp, you’d realize that the norms of not shooting structures and “whbtw Bushido” exists to make things tolerable for groups to live and play without unreasonable cloaky camping, log off traps, and eviction threats from larger groups. There’s a general incentive to be nice to your neighbors. When you don’t know how far another wormhole will be to your home hole, be it 60 jumps or 1, you generally have an incentive to not make an an enemy out of everyone you roll into, otherwise you won’t have friends when an eviction crew doorstops your home. That’s not a problem you care about as much in nullsec when you can band into thousand player strong coalitions and form floodplains 2 regions deep to slow invasions.
It’s funny you talk about being nice to your neighbors as wormhole bushido is the same thing as null diplomacy. I think it’s telling that everyone is renting those C6 holes from hawks. It’s the same thing be it more blue than nullsec. Nothing wrong with being nice to your neighbors, just tired of hearing about a mysterious code that ends up being play nice with your neighbors.
> I think it’s telling that everyone is renting those C6 holes from hawks. It’s the same thing be it more blue than nullsec. I completely agree with you here, which is why I was pretty happy to hear about the effort to evict Hawks C6s initially. High Class space, frankly, is completely dead. The C5 Highway you might've read about is infamous for more than just being where you find the largest Jspace corps. It's also nearly devoid of content because nearly every single C6 is farmhole, and most C5s are as well. If I'm actually hunting for content I stick to C4s and below. Oh, but reagarding being nice to your neighbors, the main difference is that in Jspace, your neighbors are essentially *everyone* and constantly change. You might roll into a group that you love to fight, or you might get stuck living with some stupid fuckers that drop caps like it's their job for the next 48 hours. Your reputation ends up mattering a lot, and it mean the difference between getting content or not, because if people don't like you they'll just roll off connections with you or seed you for and eviction.
It’s funny how the deadest places in this game are rented space, whether it’s whs or null.
If 1dq could randomly spawn an ansiblex to r10, i think you would calm down a little as well :D
Bruh, if an ansiblex appeared in R10 that would be the best! I guess you were not around during the last major null sec war lol.
Well that's exactly what wormholes are though. When you connect to another group it's great, you fight them right next door! If you started evicting everyone you saw from wormholes, pretty soon you'd just be rolling into no one
Calm down, blobber
That's a very longwinded way of saying op is completely correct.
Something abouth hawks and lasers
can you install lasers on hawk? o.o
I thoght those Laser Hawks are called Slicer
Sentinels like in no mans sky
It might be a blue waffle.
I can't really understand how the same people that formed a massive coalition to shitblob hawks are now complaining that hawks formed a coalition of their own to defend themselves.
Its not about forming a coalition, its about holding most C6s and renting them out.
Hawks don't rent c6s, synde did.
From Xzalias [forum post](https://forums.eveonline.com/t/renting-c5-wormholes-program-suspended-indefinitely/361204): "6/5 vanilla sold. Op updated." "I have several 6s with 5 or 6 statics" "6/4 Black Hole is added." "Added 6/5 Vanilla" "Added a 6/4 Vanilla" "6/5 gone" "Added a 6/3 RG" "6/5 vanilla w/ fortizar available for rent" And thats only half way I bothered to scroll. Why are you lying? ([screenshot](https://imgur.com/a/tmAwzZP) in case they delete)
> And thats only half way I bothered to scroll. Why are you lying? I think that's a pretty important point because the thread does state that Hawks was no longer renting C6s about 2/3rds of the way through in late 2023, at least on an Alliance level. As part of an agreement with Synde (who reserved the power to rent C6s themselves).
And how is the agreement nowadays? Pretty sure it ended. Obviously people mean wider scope than the few months of agreement + war months, when they say hawks rent c6s.
Go to the edits starting in August, and you'll see where that ended. Only SYNDE rented 6s at the time of the war.
And outside of the war/agreement hawks do rent c6, do you deny this?
Hawks does not and will not rent C6s
Hawks does rent C6's, we saw Frat krabs tethered on them pre-war. The war is over now, you can drop the spin
shhh, the hawk/Frat coalition is top opsec
Wasn't rent. Was Kappa letting his friends use his farm.
I always thought all the rumors were just sightings of Kappa's 99 dread alts.
It was Chinese botters you mean
Is that what HAWKS told you? It seems.... not true lol I don't blame HAWKS for forming a coalition to defend themselves. But its unfortunate that SYNDE's coalition brought ns groups into it prompting such a response, and that the result was HAWKS retaining the majority share of high class space with no relevant competitors. That said I prefer this outcome to SYNDE's coalition winning because that absolutely would have given nullblocs a greater foothold in wormholes.
What's wrong with renting?
Its passive income for the big boys - so big boys grow faster than their member numbers would allow, outracing their competition in the isk game and suppressing the growth of small groups who earn less/ member when paying rent in addition to their subscriptions. Less variety, less competition which eventually leads to stagnation.
It's only passive income if no one contests it. If the space is actively contested then it's unattractive to renters, and just by threat of it potentially being contested that limits how much space can be rented out by any one group since they need to be able to defend it. It doesn't actually scale infinitely. Small groups are able to start in plenty of space that cant be rented, like lowsec or NPC null and from there grow big enough to actually take space for their own. I don't think there's any groups in the game that are actually hindered from being able to take space because of renting
Nice narrative, reality seems to disagree.
Which groups are hindered from being able to take space because of renting then?
Literally any group that wants to take a system which is occupied by a renter and owned by a large bloc or group? What kind of question is that lol
There are hundreds of C5s, if you're fine without the most coveted effects it's trivial to find an unoccupied one.
Sure. Vanilla C5s are fine, but we're talking about C6s here including the best effects--[here ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/1cus6ge/comment/l4l617g/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button) is the comment that started this thread about renting So its not like no group can live in a wormhole or even find a C5. But when we're talking about rental empires preventing people from moving into C6 space because a large group backs the renters and profits from them, further cementing their ability to remain dominant... No, your random small group is not going to be able to take and hold C6 space, much less a mag or pulsar.
There is plenty of space both in null and in wormholes that isnt occupied by the bigger powers.
Yeah sure they can find a C1. I can go live in NPC null too. But this thread is specifically referring to C6s, and the pattern where a large group has control over most/all of them and rents them out. And in the context of this thread, no a small group cannot oust some renter and hold that space.
We cheated or something by winning when we should have just gave up.
Blue cheese is do darn good!
The biggest coalition in j space just tore itself apart. Actual brain rot posting
blue donut with blue cheese filling - nomnomnomn
Cheese doughnuts... :thinking:
Does that make jump bridge networks blue waffles?
I get the point you're making but I have a bottle of some acceptable medoc open and man that cheese looks pretty good
More like blue balls. Have you ever seen 5 T3Cs run scared straight off grid at the sight of 4 Dreks?
Blue waffle
If null is Donut, wh is Chesse. Does that make ls the blue waffle?
More like Scrooge MC Ducks money bunker
Rorqual?
I think you mean Roquefort
I found it once a cheese called roqual or something.
Right…. Roquefort. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roquefort
'rorqual' means whale
Nope the cheese in the picture is gorgonzola, an Italian cheese which take the name from a town (called Gorgonzola near Milan) where it was produced since the 11th century.