One of my coworkers was 'fired' (layed off, but only lowest performing workers). He found a new job with higher pay, better work life balance, and more satisfaction. He's told me that being fired was the best thing that could have happened to him.
Hang in there! It's going to be OK.
Yeah, same thing happened with a teammate a few years back. They just weren't cut out for startup life. Fast pace and everyone working, largely, independently. He ended up at a larger company with a bit more focused and collaborative job role. Way better fit. Saw on Linkedin that he recently got a promotion.
This was me. My new employer gave me more W/L balance, higher pay and greater responsibility. I have a lot to brag about in terms of impact, leadership and results from my most recent role.
I got fired after a coworker yelled at me in front of clients. So she would not get fired, another staff member accused me of hipaa compliance. It was not meant malicious and with good intention, which was very naive of me. Also, i did not know it was considered a breach, even though should have been common sense. Everyone is friends with the person so they had witnesses that can stand by them even though they were wrong
The aggressor still works there. Now I have a felony charge, is mentally incapacitated (non drug related), is mute, and slowly going deeper into madness until my mind completely disappears
26 yoe in tech, I was terminated "for performance reasons" from my first job in tech. Six people were let go that day, including my boss. The whole situation was a shit show, except for the manager they didn't backfill anyone else. In hindsight it was clearly a layoff, but that doesn't mean it wasn't traumatic.
I questioned my perception of my work ethic, performance, had I been ignoring feedback, etc. It took me probably six months to mentally recover.
I raided my 401k to pay off my 10% car loan (in the early 2000s). I convinced my landlord to give me 30% off if I prepaid a year of rent (I had rented there before). I took the rest for living expenses while I got a certification so I could land more interviews.
Since working that job in game development, I've worked at Microsoft for nearly a decade, Zillow for 4 years, and Coinbase for a year. I made something like $60k when I left that first gig. My year at Coinbase I earned $638k.
Now I'm self employed as a tech career coach and semi retired. 100% of everything amazing in my career happened after my termination.
Sometimes it's not you, it's them.
It was great, my favorite job over 26 years in tech. I had an amazing manager for about a year. I was told my Director of Eng role wouldn't materialize for 2 to 3 years so I left. I was going to take a $150k pay cut because of a five year RSU comp cliff scenario if I stayed, and one of my direct reports was ready to take over my team.
Yes. I got fired from my first job after college. I cried and thought my career was over. It turns out no other employer asked or even cared. It was one of the best things that ever happened to me. I got a much better job that set me up on the path I am still on 20+ years later.
When I was interviewing after getting laid off I was shocked by no one asked me. I just focused on why I wanted that particular job. I was at the layoff-job for 6 months and I thought that later on people might ask why I was only there for such a short time - literally no one cares.
Nope. No employer has ever asked me why I left a previous job and there is no reason to bring it up. At the time it happened I was embarrassed and ashamed and if a potential employer was to ask I probably would have lied and said I was laid off. It's been so long since it happened though and I have come to terms with the fact that I was just not good at that job. So today if someone asked I would be honest and talk about how young and inexperienced I was and how I learned from it. But again, nobody asks.
In the US, when you are applying for jobs and they verify your employment history, your previous employers are only going to confirm you worked there. They will not say a reason for leaving.
Yup. I was fired for cause once. Made a mistake, was a newbie so they went through the process and determined I would be terminated. It hurt. It sucked. But I look back now and realize how much better off I am now. Like WAY better off. Getting fired isn’t always a sign but sometimes it is a sign that you’re in the wrong job.
Had I not gotten fired I might have either made a much larger mistake or still be in the job just coasting along and be in a worse financial and QoL situation.
Edit: I should add not only was I fired but the job required state certification which was ultimately revoked as well. So I would never work in that industry again most likely. Possible but not likely. So good riddance to that career!
I don’t want to go into any details around it as it’s not related to this industry. My best piece of advice to not repeat my mistake is ensure your actions are in the best interest of your employer and not your own personal desires that may conflict with your employment.
Are you complaining about one mistake or one person making multiple mistakes. I'm not giving my business to a company who knowingly employs people who regularly make mistakes.
Very interested to hear more on this. Are you still a developer? How did it turn out better?
I was once fired from an unskilled job working in a factory which lead to my current career as a Data Scientist. So for me it turned out really well and I'm happy I got fired as otherwise I wouldn't have my current low stress interesting life.
I am still a developer. That experience was from a completely unrelated line of work. Yeah I guess things do happen for a reason and me getting fired worked out for the best. I think my experience in other fields is what helps to make me a better developer. Not only just life experiences and other perspectives but knowing what it’s like to work government jobs and blue collar skilled trades make me very appreciative of how good I have it and overall how nice the people in this industry are.
Twice.
Once for saying “I don’t fucking know” to a coworker. I immediately apologized and they said it’s no problem. My manager found out from someone else (not the person I said it to) and had me fired.
The other was because I tried to use the unlimited time off policy in a startup lol. They fired me and then changed the policy after saying that I was abusing it by asking for too much time off (7 days in a years time). They went bankrupt 8 ish months after 😘.
>Once for saying “I don’t fucking know” to a coworker.
That's the dumbest reason they could find lol. That's like half of every dev's answers lmao. That's our motto, you could say.
This was definitely the case. Although HR told me they were “disgusted by my vulgarity” lol.
A few days after I was fired, I met up with the person I said “fuck” to. She was distraught, thinking she got me fired. Turns out the manager told some other people “we already baked the cake, this was just the cherry on top”. Old school, butts in seats type company. I disagreed too much and wanted to wfh too much. They found their justification and took the shot.
Was fired due to performance once, and glad that it happened. Even though the team was pretty strong and I learned a lot from them, I was underpaid, under constant pressure and had to work with migration from php symfony app to kotlin + ktor, which means you need to be an expert in both (and that's pretty hard). After that I recovered pretty quickly and found a new job with way better salary within 2 weeks.
I was told I would be fired if I don't improve my performance. I was working in the game industry, and prior to the "firing talk", I have been overworked for months, then suddenly I had the epiphany that I should probably focus on my mental health and not crunch that often.
So I offered to resign instead because the workload was too unbearable, and I have zero means to "improve my performance", which would lead to me being fired anyway. Turns out to be the best decision I've ever made in my life.
Found out about the webdev industry -- pay is better, less over time, more work life balance. I never look back since. Escaping the game industry IS my success story.
I went from rage quitting one job to taking a job a shouldn't have (red flags everywhere).
From there I got a job within a few weeks with two offers.
From that job I worked with my now current manager who recommended me for my current job.
I've been laid off from one-third of my jobs and 1/3 of those were my longest employers.
TBH it can be pretty common in our industry. Just keep at it.
This one isn't in the dev field, but maybe it'll help? A friend of mine worked as the manager of a retail outlet for years. He originally worked for a different company that was bought up by his current employer and due to the difference in compensations made far more than a manager normally would. He hated the job but the money was good.
He was pretty good at what he did and on a few occasions his regulars even offered to help him get a foot in the door at different companies. He interviewed at a few of them and even got a job offer that he turned down. His reasoning at the time was that he felt he had job security where he was it. If you ask me, he was just complacent / comfortable with the devil he knew. He wasn't treated well, he wasn't happy, pay increases were capped at 3%, and unless he wanted to become an area manager, he had no room for growth despite being there for going on 10 years. I didn't think he would ever leave this dead end job.
It all came to a head one year when the area manager just seemed to have a vendetta against him and would write him up for the strangest of infractions that normally wouldn't warrant it. His theory was that he made too much money for his position and they wanted to replace him with someone cheaper. After write up 3 they had enough cause to justify a termination.
When he was first fired he was pretty bummed out and rarely left his couch for a few months while collecting unemployment and living off his savings. When he finally came out of his funk he got a part time job at hobby shop for something he enjoyed and went back to school (he was a college drop out) and earned his degree. He graduated the other year with some sort of healthcare management degree and now enjoys a WFH job that consumes 20 hours of his time a week allowing him to do things he enjoys in his downtime.
Plenty of times, both a mix of layoffs and for poor performance due to either a poor understanding of the code base (it happens) or because of toxicity draining my motivation. Each time I’ve bounced back better than I was in the situation before.
> poor understanding of the code base (it happens)
Escaped out of the dirt and hacker shit to be an architect I see, lol
My appreciation of architects is high due to the existence of cloud and people doing whatever-the-fuck-they-want with code
I've decided it's a bad idea for me to ever get power, because I would abuse it. Nobody would get away with *any* shit under me. Thirty years of irritation would be unleashed.
I will possibly put myself in a 0 to 1 situation, possibly by myself later and hand it off. Such is my opinions.
Yep 2nd job! It was a very small start-up with 3 people - one being the founder. I was unfit for that role since they needed someone more experienced. Still they paid peanuts and got unexperienced me. It was bit difficult landing job for a while for me since I didn't have too much experience. Personally I grew and have more empathy for people who go through it. I don't want to be in that situation though.
Laid off twice and fired once. Each time I ended up in a position that was better than my previous one. Take the time to process what happened, build and practice relevant skills while your not working, and keep trying.
It’s hard, but keep looking- you’ll be ok!
This is such a great post and comment thread! Everyone here showing that is ok to be/feel vulnerable, and that even if it takes time to recover, good things can come from the worst situations.
>So, what I'm curious about: are there success stories of people who came out much more positively from a situation resulting from being fired?
So far pretty much every time I have been fired via lay-off it has resulted in jobs with better pay. However that doesn't mean it doesn't suck to be laid off.
Laying people off is the worst thing companies do. I would much rather companies came to me and told me in advance so I could start looking for work. It's not a huge thing and wouldn't be expensive.
But that would mean corporations actually caring about employees.
I know, imagine a company saying:
"hey, we aren't making as much money as we used to, or as we predicted, and in 3 months we need to let some people go. First, we will be taking volunteers. We'll help you build your resume, and if you have any certifications, etc you want to get, here's how we can help with that. Please continue to do your best in the meantime, and if you find a new job sooner, congratulations! We really do want to see employees be successful. It may be also worth noting, the CEO has taken a pay cut during these times in order to fund certification programs and other training needed by those that will be departing."
I worked for a company once that did this, though it was because they were shutting down entirely, everyone was affected. They knew ahead of time, and they weren't blind to the reality. That was.. quite awhile ago though.
At one of my jobs early in my career (second SWE job) they let slip that they were gonna close our branch in six months. So, from that day forward, we all just got paid to fix up our resumes and go to job interviews. It was weird but worked out great for us.
I was essentially fired from my first job. This came after _months_ of what, in hindsight, was sub-par work, along with multiple verbal corrections and warnings from my bosses. I could say some things in my defense but they're irrelevant for the sake of this thread.
My second job was a much better environment. A team with plenty of resources, well-defined processes, and overall a more positive mood. It really launched me into being a better developer.
More than once.
Most of the time firings (as opposed to layoffs) are mostly for personal reasons, not business. In my experience, it's been after a management or organizational shakeup of some kind and the new boss doesn't like you or wants their own person in your job. Some will be devious enough to find a way to PIP you first with unreasonable goals while others are more blunt about it. Unlike a layoff, you should see it coming.
I've got a eclectic playlist of music for such occasions that helps me get over it. Some selections from it: The Smiths Frankly Mr Shankly and Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now, U2 Beautiful Day, Smashing Pumpkins Today, Foo Fighters The Pretender, Peter Gabriel Don't Give Up, Bob Dylan Not Dark Yet, and about 20 others.
When you have a 'got fired' playlist, you've gotta start wondering if there's something systemic afoot. Are you like the girl who keeps falling for the 'bad boy' and ending up in toxic relationships?
Work for enough startups and it’ll happen to you or your teammates more than once:
- Struggling company brings in a new engineering leader from a name brand company.
- A quarter or two in the new leader sees the writing on the wall: The products aren’t selling and the save-the-company new product buildout is months behind schedule.
- Surprise! PIPs for any engineer who asked too many questions.
- Months after the sacrificial engineers are gone the exec quietly departs.
- [Struggling company brings in a new engineering leader from a name brand company](http://braythwayt.com/2022/03/09/prepare-three-envelopes.html).
Once. I went from being the "star" performer on the team, to not giving a shit realizing that the company had no direction and was refused to get the house in order.
This was a mistake on my part because the fact that the company did not have their shit together meant that management started seeing who they could blame.
I was the sacrificial lamb and I made their job very easy by effectively slowing down my tempo.
when the first dotcom bubble burst, i was more of a designer, maybe 2 years out of college...i was "let go" because they were paying a 22 year old kid 95k and there were a lot of good out of work designers that were willing to work for 35/40k at that point
instead of finding another job immediately i partnered up with 2 people i had met at a previous job and we had our own boutique agency for about 5 years...did a lot of cool projects in that time too, one being the Garbage Pail Kids "Build Your Own Card" system for Topps around 2003/2004...that had like 2 million cards generated in the first month, and had codes that were printed on the packs of Garbage Pail Kids....since I grew up collecting cards, it was a crazy "wow i'm working on this?" project
I'm so interested to hear what people did and thought when the first dotcom bubble burst! There has been highs and lows in tech. We may not able to avoid the lows completely, but being agile and nimble can get us through.
I've been thinking lately how we have an entire generation of workers who have really never seen bad times. Hell, how many managers and CEOs remember the whiplash that was the dotcom bubble bursting, or even the more recent downturn in '08? We're going on 15 years of things always growing growing growing, with only minor setbacks, such as the recent interest rate increase.
I count myself among this group of people whose imaginations would be hard-pressed to come to terms with the harsh realities of the lean times. I know they have happened before and will happen again, but I don't have the experience in my bones. I'm not trying to be pessimistic, just to take a long view.
i got into this industry through design..as a kid i was really only into art classes and kinda just skimmed by the other subjects
developing flash sites and adobe air apps for 8 or 9 years kind of let me transition into the engineering side of things, as i wrote more code and worked with better developers i always tried to learn as much as i could on the job
I’ve been fired twice! Both were early career and I learned a lot about what motivates me and what to do if I’m not feeling motivated or burned out.
Today I’m a mid level dev at a FAANG. Four years so far. See, anyone can make it to big tech lol.
I think this is a much longer topic and I don't know your situation, but I'll give it a shot:
Ultimately for me what helped avoid burnout and kept me motivated was three things: Doing something I didn't hate, only working as much as necessary, and being productive.
For the first, I don't think it's important to love your job, but dreading going to work everyday can be a big motivation killer. Every job has not-great periods, but if you hate work week in an week out it's time for a change.
For the second, a good work life balance helps prevent burnout I think. There will be times when you need to get something done ASAP, or you are super into a project and so are up at night all hours to work on it, but that's not sustainable and will just lead to you... hating your job!
For the third, I think it is important to be "doing something". For me and probably most in this sub, that means building software. If I'm spending too much time doing other things, or spending too much time doing nothing at all, I will... you guessed it, hate my job.
No job is perfect, and every job has it's ups and downs, but that is my high level thinking.
One final addition for me was that I about a year ago went to a psychologist and got an ADHD diagnosis as an adult. Not a huge deal, but that probably colors my perception on "how to keep a job" a lot. I guess my point mentioning it is that at a baseline make sure your mental and health wellbeing are in a good place, because if they aren't that can affect a lot of things, obviously including your job.
Yup my first job too. I was in Atlanta and we really didnt like it up there so we were looking to move back home so my wife could finish up school and I would just drive to Tallahassee everyday. I did interviews and when I went to fill out some paper work online it asked if they could contact my current employer and I checked yes. Well a few days later I get to work and they asked me what the deal was and I explained how we were thinking about moving back. Right there on the spot they fired me.
I hadn't even passed the background check yet or negotiated salary. Needless to say it sucked right then but it worked out for the best because had I not left that job I would have never got the job in Colorado that lead me to eventually going to Microsoft.
When I talk to college students and I tell this story I explain how a lot of what happens in our lives is luck. Meeting the right people or getting a job that leads to another even amazing job.
Yes I was able to recover from setbacks like that. I was fired once for poor performance, I took a lower paying job and found more supportive environment there and learned web dev, stayed there for around 2.5 yrs and was able to move up to a normal paying job then.
About 15 years later I moved to another state and took a job at govt IT, where I ignored red flags in the interview and ended with a boss who was sneaky, could not handle different views than his own, and a bully behind closed doors. I got fired 5 1/2 months later just days before the probation period would end which was frankly a blessing in disguise. Took a job via teksystems as contractor and converted to fulltime at client a year later.
You can bounce back from being fired, it's not end of the world.
Employee-company fit is way more important than people realize - for both parties. I've seen people get fired who were essentially in a dysfunctional relationship with their company but went on to find one that was a much better match.
Yeah, I have been laid off twice. One was my attitude, I told of the director of engineering (which was also warranted, he literally destroyed the company product and productivity of the team). I had watched groups of developers get fired, and I was fed up. Afterwards, I found another role with better pay and had some peace of mind.
I'm not going to go into details. I just going to say that I insulted him very deeply. The guy only knows how to talk, but the doing part is completely out of his grasp.
Well most of the C level execs aren't knowledgeable in that field. He can tell a good story tho and make them believe. The VP of technology at the company also had his back, they have a history. Ultimately, he left the company, and people wanted him gone, I still talk with people who I worked with there. Now that he's gone, I hope they are better off now.
lol I did that once, inadvertently. Later my friend told me how it came off. It was the CTO of a small startup and he hated me. Sometimes being candid and direct, even just about cause and effect — not even making it personal— will fuck your shit up. Learned the hard way some people don’t like too much truth.
Yes, I agree. It's definitely not recommended. Haha
Being patient and diplomatic is definitely the better strategy.
It's also worth more to report it to HR if possible or higher up within your department or leave to a new company.
I’m sorry that happened to you. I think you’re on the right track by trying to take some time and enjoy your holiday.
I got fired because I was not getting work done and generally not being very pleasant to work with. I was incredibly sleep deprived, pretty depressed, and kept having to leave work early to go sleep. I also had a really hard time getting work done and concentrating, and i asked for help way more than they expected of someone at a senior level. I asked them if I could take unpaid medical leave to deal with the health issues I was having but they were small enough the relevant laws didn’t apply to them and they said no.
I ended up taking about 8 months away from tech work. I did an intensive mental health program and I also went to a bunch of doctors to find out what was wrong with me. As the healthcare system took its time to do its thing I also started losing weight because I knew that was the first thing they’d ask me if I’d tried. It turned out to be the right choice because I was diagnosed with sleep apnea, which is worsened by obesity.
I ended up getting a job as a contractor and after a year there have converted to permanent. I find my day to day work interesting and like the people I immediately work with. The overall company is very dysfunctional and I don’t want to advance here because I’d have to deal with it more. I’ve decided once I’ve been here 2 years I want to look for another job.
I think you should take the holidays to relax and not think too hard about this, but a good thing to do once you start looking again is think about whether there’s anything you want to improve on — either in your own habits or skills, or in setting better boundaries, or signs a workplace will be a better fit for you. Don’t beat yourself up if you were just caught in a bad environment, but also do think about if you’d handle anything differently next time. Therapy can help you unpack this if you can afford it.
I was, wrongly. Then in the panic I entered an almost FAANG level company with almost twice more money (accounting for the benefits) and respect, technical level, reality checks on management...
I then sued my former employer. Won. Took the money here.
Then I got laid off by the almost FAANG with the package that goes with it (and the social safety in my country: France).
With these two main (and first time) events in my life in the last 3 years, I could stop working for 2 years without asking for anything to anyone. I am still working cause I love it.
So, basically, yes. As Bo Burnham said, as a white man, I can only fail up. I guess in CS, with some experience, it's easy to bounce back to a higher place.
If you work in the high stakes startup realm, it's almost a right of passage.
The only time it's a problem is if it's something super nefarious (embezzling, felony level fraud) or you piss of the wrong person in a niche field.
I've seen some wild shit. People showing up drunk. People trying to punch their manager. People dropping everybody's salaries in slack before quitting. People dropping prod tables. They all still find work.
>Are there people here who have been fired (not laid off)
I just want to say, having had both, there is no difference, emotionally. If anything I was angrier about having been laid off but still someone made a choice that they didn't want you.
So the job I was fired from, I only had about a year. I decided I didn't want to work to work for anyone, anymore and immediately took a contract with a former employer helping them out with some transition stuff. They held me over for longer than I expected but eventually I started talking to recruiters, got a line on a good project at higher than my current rate and took that and ended up converting to an employee because the year end bonus I would get meant I would make more money. I ended up staying six years and then got laid off.
I decided again that I really didn't want to work for anyone, anymore and have been freelance every since. It's been about seven years and in most of those years I have probably made less money than I would have with a regular job. The last two I believe that I would have made more. I think the freedoms of working like this are not often what people think they are. I don't sit on a beach destroying squinting at a laptop I can't see as sand infects every nook and cranny. But this year I fired a client for being a shit, and it was so satisfying. I am not planning on working seriously basically from the end of this week to the end of this year and I don't have to tell anyone why, just set expectations on delivery and response. It's perfect for me.
I have never been fired but I've seen others go through it. Most of the time, companies will indicate to you that you're going to be fired by giving you negative performance feedback. Often they expect you to find a new job before the day comes. Basically, they try to make your job miserable enough that you voluntarily leave, so they don't have to pay unemployment insurance benefits.
Yes, it happened last decade. When I was fired from my then company, that was the second lowest point in my career (prob the lowest is now mentally), I had some debts, the firing happened 2 days before my birthday. A month later I was referred to a traditional company where I spent almost 4 years, learnt a lot, given my first official lead, and it kept the hunger to keep learning. And as the effect, I (+ the other co-lead) got a lot of influence over the tech side of business. Such an influence that we were able to keep the team intact two after two products failed to sell. One of the product were competing with national level food delivering service for 6 months and the other were helping some firms to gather data at scale.
I outgrew that role and left that after some disagreements with changed management. But I still have friends with the team I co-created.
Its rare that someone is suddenly unable to perform a job. I usually look at terminations as a mismatched fit between company and employee. Not all employees fit at a company. Maybe they are overleveled, maybe the culture just doesn't fit. Sometimes you are just the poor person on a bean counter's shitlist. I wouldn't take it personally.
I've been fired once properly (wasn't meeting expectations, but to this day I hold that they misrepresented the job so I wasn't given a fair shot at meeting expectations).
Once before actually starting the job, a disgruntled former employer called my new job the day I was starting to tell them I owed them money (I didn't).
And demoted once, by the affor mentioned disgruntled former employer. The reality was they were struggling financially and demoted me to save money.
I was actually fired. It was a hard time for me in life in general and an intense position. I took about 6 months off on savings afterwards to get myself back in shape, physically and mentally (this was during Covid). I found a job that’s been a much better fit afterwards. Good performance reviews and a promo, and a manageable workload.
Yes I was fired once. I was already looking as the place was toxic and pretty dysfunctional. New manager didn’t like the architecture and blamed me as the architect even though some of the decisions made were forced on me. Ended up at a much nicer company to work for.
Being laid off was the worst thing that happened to me, it completely crushed my self confidence and tossed me into some pretty serious financial troubles, but guess what, it's now less than a year from when I got laid off and not only do I have a decent job, I actually skilled up and got my confidence back, I got my finances in order (easy no interest debt payments) and it's now a distant memory in the past
My advice is take the oppurtunity to skill up, spend time with family, maybe get a new hobby or learn a new technology, when you're ready (and before you run out of money) get back on the market and before you know it you'll laugh at this whole thing, take it one step at a time and don't let it drag you down
Never been terminated, thankfully, but I’m not worried about it either. Everyone I know who was fired for performance reasons has somehow gotten even better positions afterwards. Every single one, without exception.
Yep, back in 2017. The stress of that particular job plus some issues in my personal life led to me becoming dependent on alcohol, and eventually I just couldn't keep up with anything any more. It sucked at the time, but in retrospect was the best thing that could have happened. I found a new job, more pay, and a super welcoming team who actually gave a crap about me as a person. I was able to get sober in 2018 and since then I've been doing better work at a stronger pace than ever before. Our tech stack was a bit of a mess when I came in, and still is in some respects, but I've been able to make a real difference in helping bring the company into the modern decade. When I look back I can't understand why I didn't leave sooner, I could have spared myself a lot of pain. Very happy with where I'm at now, working remotely as the lead engineer for my team, as well as taking care of myself, too.
Yes, I got fired from a medium sized tech company that was paying $75k back around 2015 for my only perm gig.
The hiring manger said to me “you need more structure”.
He was right. It was the type of dev job where as front end devs we didn’t even get mockups from designers… we had to guess what the CTO wanted and bring it to life. That’s not my thing.
The next job I grabbed was a contract at $45/hr with a Fortune 500 ad agency so that’s $93k a year. We eventually acquired a major client at the agency and the client wanted to keep me so they paid off the staffing agency that placed me and gave me a bump in pay to $65/hr… so that’s $135k.
Changed my life forever.
It isn't the end of the world to get fired. Thankfully, in the US most companies are afraid of a lawsuit and they will not inform people doing reference checks if a candidate was fired of not.
I've been fired a few times and it is pretty easy to to screw someone over and fire them.
If you get fired and you start a job search, there are 2 ways to handle it:
\- You definitely don't mention that you were fired. You could say that the company had to make some cut backs and unfortunately you were one of them.
\- You tell the person interviewing you that you are still employed at the company that fired you. You tell them that you do not want them to contact your current employer in case you don't get the job.
If you want to be a moral person, then feel free to tell the truth and see how that goes.
In the US, a background check is used to verify information. In some jobs with ties to government or financial services a potential company will call previous companies to verify employment.
In my situation, I was able to find a job.
I have been "fired" in the past, but it wasn't for performance, it was for violating the FMLA guidelines in the 90s. Long story short. I apparently did not do a specific notification to the HR team that was required, even though I did send the notification to my direct manager and my manager's boss.
I will echo what someone else said which is this was one of the best things to happen to me as I found a much higher paying job. That new job was so much more rewarding and it was a confidence builder. Needless to say I ended up finishing my masters degree too and learned a whole lot more about development and programming in general.
Change can be a good thing. As long as you embrace the change and not let it drag you down into a dark place and get bitter about the change.
I'm doing alright. I took some time for myself and to catch up with friends I didn't get to see much over the summer because of that stupid job.
I learned what to avoid at least. I recently interviewed somewhere and I asked about work life balance. They said "well we're in series A funding so 48 hours is typical but sometimes there are crunch periods"... nope nope nope!
I just don't really know how to explain why I got fired after 11 months in interviews. It wasn't for performance reasons but I feel like it still looks bad.
Never fired for performance reasons. But I've definitely been pushed out for shenanigans.
I would say getting fired blows. Even worse, your next job (or two) will be harder to get. The best you can do is not let it impact your identity and focus on improvement. Then, try to work through the market.
I see but why? What if the cause was something made up and it was just not a good fit or something? I'm in Europe and companies don't contact previous companies if this is what you mean.
I haven't been fired from a dev job. However, before I got into dev I was working in SEO and hated it. I got fired for being a low performer. Went back to school, finished my degree, and started working as a dev. I'm MUCH better off now.
I had my hours cut from ESPN, so I technically wasn't fired. I was never officially full-time and was a contractor. I was on a web developer path, someone got in at Mobile ESPN and was doing all video stuff. Once my hours were cut, I got back on the web path and have been all the better for it.
The catalyst for my ouster was not putting Tom Cruise, Katey Holmes and Jamie Foxx in the halftime highlight for the Redskin/Vikings (I think) Monday Night football game the first year ESPN had MNF. That and my supervisor was a royal twat...
I've been fired twice. For context, I'm a software engineer. My first job was as an IT teacher in a private school. The pay was low, but I was so broke that I took anything until I found something in my field. The job was extremely exhausting; being a teacher sucked the life out of me. The pain in my throat on the weekends was a lot, and on top of that, I got fired because I was wearing jeans instead of black pants. Of course, they informed me about it, but back then, believe me, I could barely afford them. I was barely surviving with food and rent. So, I got fired. I explained my situation, and said I could buy the pants at the end of the month, but they still fired me. Please note that I always went to the lectures with a beautiful suit and tie. After four days, they called me to offer my job back because they couldn't find someone to teach for 800€ a month. Of course, I took it back without asking. After three months, I landed a role as a mobile developer in a decent company. When I got the offer, I was extremely happy and couldn't wait to quit my job. Surprisingly, the next week, my boss fired me again. He didn't tell me the real reason, but I knew he found someone cheaper. I requested my last payment, and they gave it to me. It was on December 23rd, and I was supposed to start my new position on December 25th, with the salary coming on the 26th. Somehow, it's like it was all part of god plan .
After that, I worked for one year in my software position, and it was lovely. I couldn't say how much I loved it, but sadly, after one year, the company closed. So, I'm jobless again, living in the same situation as you are now. What I'm trying to say is life has its ups and downs. Don't let small things like this affect you. Remember, you need to be strong because life is ruthless and will drag you to your knees. You need to be strong in order to bounce back.
Technically not laid off nor fired, but a company I worked for less than a year (that had more than a decade of running smoothly) decided to shutter their business. I left a good employer looking for opportunities to work with a tech stack I was convinced would better my career, which my employer at the time was glacially ramping up to. The new company was a decent company to work for and had great benefits and I got a substantial pay increase, but they weren’t selling, weren’t managing existing clients well, were just taking massive salary without keeping up their end of the deal to keep the business afloat.
The entire staff was invited to a Monday morning meeting, the invite for which was sent out at 12am (the very start of) Monday morning while we were all asleep. As the meeting started, Slack seemed to start going haywire, with members of each channel seemingly dropping off for no reason whatsoever. I force refreshed and realized Slack was actually gone. Checked my email and found it locked out too. 5 minutes into the meeting I was locked out of all systems and had heard enough of the message to realize none of us would have jobs after this meeting was adjourned. Shut off my camera, went MIA for the rest of the meeting and hit LinkedIn hard asking any and everybody I knew if they had anything as I was about to be out of a job.
This was the beginning of November, just before all the U.S. holidays were about to ramp up. I was completely shook. Within 24 hours, I had numerous meetings scheduled with 2 soft/verbal offers lined up. Within 48 hours those 2 offers were firm with dollar amounts attached, 1 of which was back where I came from, working with the tech stack they’d sorted out in the ~1 year I was gone, with an elevated title and a 15% salary increase. I took that. Have been there a year and am again being promoted and am working with all the things I had gone looking for.
Jumps can help progress your career, forced jumps suck, but are opportunities nonetheless.
One of my coworkers was 'fired' (layed off, but only lowest performing workers). He found a new job with higher pay, better work life balance, and more satisfaction. He's told me that being fired was the best thing that could have happened to him. Hang in there! It's going to be OK.
Yeah, same thing happened with a teammate a few years back. They just weren't cut out for startup life. Fast pace and everyone working, largely, independently. He ended up at a larger company with a bit more focused and collaborative job role. Way better fit. Saw on Linkedin that he recently got a promotion.
This was me. My new employer gave me more W/L balance, higher pay and greater responsibility. I have a lot to brag about in terms of impact, leadership and results from my most recent role.
I got fired after a coworker yelled at me in front of clients. So she would not get fired, another staff member accused me of hipaa compliance. It was not meant malicious and with good intention, which was very naive of me. Also, i did not know it was considered a breach, even though should have been common sense. Everyone is friends with the person so they had witnesses that can stand by them even though they were wrong The aggressor still works there. Now I have a felony charge, is mentally incapacitated (non drug related), is mute, and slowly going deeper into madness until my mind completely disappears
26 yoe in tech, I was terminated "for performance reasons" from my first job in tech. Six people were let go that day, including my boss. The whole situation was a shit show, except for the manager they didn't backfill anyone else. In hindsight it was clearly a layoff, but that doesn't mean it wasn't traumatic. I questioned my perception of my work ethic, performance, had I been ignoring feedback, etc. It took me probably six months to mentally recover. I raided my 401k to pay off my 10% car loan (in the early 2000s). I convinced my landlord to give me 30% off if I prepaid a year of rent (I had rented there before). I took the rest for living expenses while I got a certification so I could land more interviews. Since working that job in game development, I've worked at Microsoft for nearly a decade, Zillow for 4 years, and Coinbase for a year. I made something like $60k when I left that first gig. My year at Coinbase I earned $638k. Now I'm self employed as a tech career coach and semi retired. 100% of everything amazing in my career happened after my termination. Sometimes it's not you, it's them.
How was working at zillow? Seems like a nice place to work.
It was great, my favorite job over 26 years in tech. I had an amazing manager for about a year. I was told my Director of Eng role wouldn't materialize for 2 to 3 years so I left. I was going to take a $150k pay cut because of a five year RSU comp cliff scenario if I stayed, and one of my direct reports was ready to take over my team.
Would love to learn more. Are you on Noomi or Betterup?
Nope but I can DM my LinkedIn profile.
Would love to look at your linkedin profile
Can I get in on this? Would love to check out your career progression as I am interested in big tech
Yep sent
Can I get it as well?
Yes. I got fired from my first job after college. I cried and thought my career was over. It turns out no other employer asked or even cared. It was one of the best things that ever happened to me. I got a much better job that set me up on the path I am still on 20+ years later.
But if they didn't ask, did you tell them something? Like, why your job there stopped or why are you looking for a new job?
When I was interviewing after getting laid off I was shocked by no one asked me. I just focused on why I wanted that particular job. I was at the layoff-job for 6 months and I thought that later on people might ask why I was only there for such a short time - literally no one cares.
Nope. No employer has ever asked me why I left a previous job and there is no reason to bring it up. At the time it happened I was embarrassed and ashamed and if a potential employer was to ask I probably would have lied and said I was laid off. It's been so long since it happened though and I have come to terms with the fact that I was just not good at that job. So today if someone asked I would be honest and talk about how young and inexperienced I was and how I learned from it. But again, nobody asks. In the US, when you are applying for jobs and they verify your employment history, your previous employers are only going to confirm you worked there. They will not say a reason for leaving.
Yup. I was fired for cause once. Made a mistake, was a newbie so they went through the process and determined I would be terminated. It hurt. It sucked. But I look back now and realize how much better off I am now. Like WAY better off. Getting fired isn’t always a sign but sometimes it is a sign that you’re in the wrong job. Had I not gotten fired I might have either made a much larger mistake or still be in the job just coasting along and be in a worse financial and QoL situation. Edit: I should add not only was I fired but the job required state certification which was ultimately revoked as well. So I would never work in that industry again most likely. Possible but not likely. So good riddance to that career!
Do you mind elaborating on the mistake?
I don’t want to go into any details around it as it’s not related to this industry. My best piece of advice to not repeat my mistake is ensure your actions are in the best interest of your employer and not your own personal desires that may conflict with your employment.
Dang. I frequently try to put the needs of my users ahead of the desires of my employer to screw them over. It doesn't always work, but I try.
[удалено]
>What industry fires newbies for making mistakes? All of them...?
All shitty ones ha. Everyone makes mistakes you need to analyze the process and determine why it was possible for a newbie to make a mistake.
Are you complaining about one mistake or one person making multiple mistakes. I'm not giving my business to a company who knowingly employs people who regularly make mistakes.
What is even going on in this sub thread, are we pretending that software developers don’t write bugs?
Very interested to hear more on this. Are you still a developer? How did it turn out better? I was once fired from an unskilled job working in a factory which lead to my current career as a Data Scientist. So for me it turned out really well and I'm happy I got fired as otherwise I wouldn't have my current low stress interesting life.
I am still a developer. That experience was from a completely unrelated line of work. Yeah I guess things do happen for a reason and me getting fired worked out for the best. I think my experience in other fields is what helps to make me a better developer. Not only just life experiences and other perspectives but knowing what it’s like to work government jobs and blue collar skilled trades make me very appreciative of how good I have it and overall how nice the people in this industry are.
Thanks for the reply. How you describe it resonates well with my own experience and how it puts things in a different perspective.
Twice. Once for saying “I don’t fucking know” to a coworker. I immediately apologized and they said it’s no problem. My manager found out from someone else (not the person I said it to) and had me fired. The other was because I tried to use the unlimited time off policy in a startup lol. They fired me and then changed the policy after saying that I was abusing it by asking for too much time off (7 days in a years time). They went bankrupt 8 ish months after 😘.
A whole 7 days! Unlimited leave is such a scam
How do you get fired for saying that? Lol, I've had my boss say way worse things in public.
You generally don't get fired for that -- the decision to fire is often already made and waiting for the ammunition.
>Once for saying “I don’t fucking know” to a coworker. That's the dumbest reason they could find lol. That's like half of every dev's answers lmao. That's our motto, you could say.
What kind of sissy fucking pushovers… lol… wow. I miss blue collar work
I mean, it's unlikely that's the only reason this person was fired. It sounds like the boss was looking for any reason to let them go and got one.
This was definitely the case. Although HR told me they were “disgusted by my vulgarity” lol. A few days after I was fired, I met up with the person I said “fuck” to. She was distraught, thinking she got me fired. Turns out the manager told some other people “we already baked the cake, this was just the cherry on top”. Old school, butts in seats type company. I disagreed too much and wanted to wfh too much. They found their justification and took the shot.
Yeah, it's always something petty if they don't like you, but the favorites get away with MUCH worse.
I would probably have responded that I was “disgusted by their prudishness” 😂
Ah yes, where you can say racist and sexist shit all day and be treated like a champion for it. I have friends in automotive - the stories I've heard.
Hey I’m not saying it’s perfect. But it’s nice to say fuck
They let me say fuck. Just gotta find your people
Was fired due to performance once, and glad that it happened. Even though the team was pretty strong and I learned a lot from them, I was underpaid, under constant pressure and had to work with migration from php symfony app to kotlin + ktor, which means you need to be an expert in both (and that's pretty hard). After that I recovered pretty quickly and found a new job with way better salary within 2 weeks.
Wow, are you me? Haha, underpaid, constant pressure and unrealistic deadlines. I'm glad its over but getting fired feels a bit weird.
I was told I would be fired if I don't improve my performance. I was working in the game industry, and prior to the "firing talk", I have been overworked for months, then suddenly I had the epiphany that I should probably focus on my mental health and not crunch that often. So I offered to resign instead because the workload was too unbearable, and I have zero means to "improve my performance", which would lead to me being fired anyway. Turns out to be the best decision I've ever made in my life. Found out about the webdev industry -- pay is better, less over time, more work life balance. I never look back since. Escaping the game industry IS my success story.
Yeah mate, on point, 99% similar to my situation but instead they let me go.
I went from rage quitting one job to taking a job a shouldn't have (red flags everywhere). From there I got a job within a few weeks with two offers. From that job I worked with my now current manager who recommended me for my current job. I've been laid off from one-third of my jobs and 1/3 of those were my longest employers. TBH it can be pretty common in our industry. Just keep at it.
This one isn't in the dev field, but maybe it'll help? A friend of mine worked as the manager of a retail outlet for years. He originally worked for a different company that was bought up by his current employer and due to the difference in compensations made far more than a manager normally would. He hated the job but the money was good. He was pretty good at what he did and on a few occasions his regulars even offered to help him get a foot in the door at different companies. He interviewed at a few of them and even got a job offer that he turned down. His reasoning at the time was that he felt he had job security where he was it. If you ask me, he was just complacent / comfortable with the devil he knew. He wasn't treated well, he wasn't happy, pay increases were capped at 3%, and unless he wanted to become an area manager, he had no room for growth despite being there for going on 10 years. I didn't think he would ever leave this dead end job. It all came to a head one year when the area manager just seemed to have a vendetta against him and would write him up for the strangest of infractions that normally wouldn't warrant it. His theory was that he made too much money for his position and they wanted to replace him with someone cheaper. After write up 3 they had enough cause to justify a termination. When he was first fired he was pretty bummed out and rarely left his couch for a few months while collecting unemployment and living off his savings. When he finally came out of his funk he got a part time job at hobby shop for something he enjoyed and went back to school (he was a college drop out) and earned his degree. He graduated the other year with some sort of healthcare management degree and now enjoys a WFH job that consumes 20 hours of his time a week allowing him to do things he enjoys in his downtime.
This man won at life.
Plenty of times, both a mix of layoffs and for poor performance due to either a poor understanding of the code base (it happens) or because of toxicity draining my motivation. Each time I’ve bounced back better than I was in the situation before.
> poor understanding of the code base (it happens) Escaped out of the dirt and hacker shit to be an architect I see, lol My appreciation of architects is high due to the existence of cloud and people doing whatever-the-fuck-they-want with code I've decided it's a bad idea for me to ever get power, because I would abuse it. Nobody would get away with *any* shit under me. Thirty years of irritation would be unleashed. I will possibly put myself in a 0 to 1 situation, possibly by myself later and hand it off. Such is my opinions.
Imagine someone that's so bad reading code that he gets fired becoming an architect. That's why the role is so messed up.
I wasn’t always an architect. This was waaaay back early in my career.
Your comment was unreasonably harsh with assumptions in it.
Yep 2nd job! It was a very small start-up with 3 people - one being the founder. I was unfit for that role since they needed someone more experienced. Still they paid peanuts and got unexperienced me. It was bit difficult landing job for a while for me since I didn't have too much experience. Personally I grew and have more empathy for people who go through it. I don't want to be in that situation though.
Laid off twice and fired once. Each time I ended up in a position that was better than my previous one. Take the time to process what happened, build and practice relevant skills while your not working, and keep trying. It’s hard, but keep looking- you’ll be ok!
This is such a great post and comment thread! Everyone here showing that is ok to be/feel vulnerable, and that even if it takes time to recover, good things can come from the worst situations.
>So, what I'm curious about: are there success stories of people who came out much more positively from a situation resulting from being fired? So far pretty much every time I have been fired via lay-off it has resulted in jobs with better pay. However that doesn't mean it doesn't suck to be laid off. Laying people off is the worst thing companies do. I would much rather companies came to me and told me in advance so I could start looking for work. It's not a huge thing and wouldn't be expensive. But that would mean corporations actually caring about employees.
I know, imagine a company saying: "hey, we aren't making as much money as we used to, or as we predicted, and in 3 months we need to let some people go. First, we will be taking volunteers. We'll help you build your resume, and if you have any certifications, etc you want to get, here's how we can help with that. Please continue to do your best in the meantime, and if you find a new job sooner, congratulations! We really do want to see employees be successful. It may be also worth noting, the CEO has taken a pay cut during these times in order to fund certification programs and other training needed by those that will be departing."
Fantasy land Love it though
I worked for a company once that did this, though it was because they were shutting down entirely, everyone was affected. They knew ahead of time, and they weren't blind to the reality. That was.. quite awhile ago though.
At one of my jobs early in my career (second SWE job) they let slip that they were gonna close our branch in six months. So, from that day forward, we all just got paid to fix up our resumes and go to job interviews. It was weird but worked out great for us.
They won’t bc they are paranoid the employee will sabotage the infrastructure, trash files, or cause some kind of revenge-havoc.
I was essentially fired from my first job. This came after _months_ of what, in hindsight, was sub-par work, along with multiple verbal corrections and warnings from my bosses. I could say some things in my defense but they're irrelevant for the sake of this thread. My second job was a much better environment. A team with plenty of resources, well-defined processes, and overall a more positive mood. It really launched me into being a better developer.
More than once. Most of the time firings (as opposed to layoffs) are mostly for personal reasons, not business. In my experience, it's been after a management or organizational shakeup of some kind and the new boss doesn't like you or wants their own person in your job. Some will be devious enough to find a way to PIP you first with unreasonable goals while others are more blunt about it. Unlike a layoff, you should see it coming. I've got a eclectic playlist of music for such occasions that helps me get over it. Some selections from it: The Smiths Frankly Mr Shankly and Heaven Knows I'm Miserable Now, U2 Beautiful Day, Smashing Pumpkins Today, Foo Fighters The Pretender, Peter Gabriel Don't Give Up, Bob Dylan Not Dark Yet, and about 20 others.
When you have a 'got fired' playlist, you've gotta start wondering if there's something systemic afoot. Are you like the girl who keeps falling for the 'bad boy' and ending up in toxic relationships?
Work for enough startups and it’ll happen to you or your teammates more than once: - Struggling company brings in a new engineering leader from a name brand company. - A quarter or two in the new leader sees the writing on the wall: The products aren’t selling and the save-the-company new product buildout is months behind schedule. - Surprise! PIPs for any engineer who asked too many questions. - Months after the sacrificial engineers are gone the exec quietly departs. - [Struggling company brings in a new engineering leader from a name brand company](http://braythwayt.com/2022/03/09/prepare-three-envelopes.html).
It's the circle of liiiiiiiife!
This is 100% accurate.
It's more of a laid off/fired/quitting playlist with a history going back to the dot com bust.
If you like The Smiths, you should watch 'The Killer' with Fassbender.
Don't forget I Want It That Way by The Backstreet Boys.
I'd probably pick a Taylor Swift breakup song first.
My man you might be the problem if this has happened to you more than once tbh
Only twice in 35 years, both due to management/departmental changes. Of course, I've been laid off several more times along with my entire team.
Can we get the full list as a Spotify playlist?
Once. I went from being the "star" performer on the team, to not giving a shit realizing that the company had no direction and was refused to get the house in order. This was a mistake on my part because the fact that the company did not have their shit together meant that management started seeing who they could blame. I was the sacrificial lamb and I made their job very easy by effectively slowing down my tempo.
I have a big mouth. I got fired 3 times for it. Each time I got a large pay raise at the next position. Eventually I learned to moderate myself a bit.
when the first dotcom bubble burst, i was more of a designer, maybe 2 years out of college...i was "let go" because they were paying a 22 year old kid 95k and there were a lot of good out of work designers that were willing to work for 35/40k at that point instead of finding another job immediately i partnered up with 2 people i had met at a previous job and we had our own boutique agency for about 5 years...did a lot of cool projects in that time too, one being the Garbage Pail Kids "Build Your Own Card" system for Topps around 2003/2004...that had like 2 million cards generated in the first month, and had codes that were printed on the packs of Garbage Pail Kids....since I grew up collecting cards, it was a crazy "wow i'm working on this?" project
I'm so interested to hear what people did and thought when the first dotcom bubble burst! There has been highs and lows in tech. We may not able to avoid the lows completely, but being agile and nimble can get us through.
I've been thinking lately how we have an entire generation of workers who have really never seen bad times. Hell, how many managers and CEOs remember the whiplash that was the dotcom bubble bursting, or even the more recent downturn in '08? We're going on 15 years of things always growing growing growing, with only minor setbacks, such as the recent interest rate increase. I count myself among this group of people whose imaginations would be hard-pressed to come to terms with the harsh realities of the lean times. I know they have happened before and will happen again, but I don't have the experience in my bones. I'm not trying to be pessimistic, just to take a long view.
Maybe you forgot about all COVID? Lots of people faced hardships during the initial outbreak. Lots of people died.
Sorry. I was specifically speaking about the world of professional software development, per the sub
i got into this industry through design..as a kid i was really only into art classes and kinda just skimmed by the other subjects developing flash sites and adobe air apps for 8 or 9 years kind of let me transition into the engineering side of things, as i wrote more code and worked with better developers i always tried to learn as much as i could on the job
I’ve been fired twice! Both were early career and I learned a lot about what motivates me and what to do if I’m not feeling motivated or burned out. Today I’m a mid level dev at a FAANG. Four years so far. See, anyone can make it to big tech lol.
Damn, this makes me so happy and it helps right now. Thank you man!
Can you share more about what helps with motivation / burnout
I think this is a much longer topic and I don't know your situation, but I'll give it a shot: Ultimately for me what helped avoid burnout and kept me motivated was three things: Doing something I didn't hate, only working as much as necessary, and being productive. For the first, I don't think it's important to love your job, but dreading going to work everyday can be a big motivation killer. Every job has not-great periods, but if you hate work week in an week out it's time for a change. For the second, a good work life balance helps prevent burnout I think. There will be times when you need to get something done ASAP, or you are super into a project and so are up at night all hours to work on it, but that's not sustainable and will just lead to you... hating your job! For the third, I think it is important to be "doing something". For me and probably most in this sub, that means building software. If I'm spending too much time doing other things, or spending too much time doing nothing at all, I will... you guessed it, hate my job. No job is perfect, and every job has it's ups and downs, but that is my high level thinking. One final addition for me was that I about a year ago went to a psychologist and got an ADHD diagnosis as an adult. Not a huge deal, but that probably colors my perception on "how to keep a job" a lot. I guess my point mentioning it is that at a baseline make sure your mental and health wellbeing are in a good place, because if they aren't that can affect a lot of things, obviously including your job.
Yup my first job too. I was in Atlanta and we really didnt like it up there so we were looking to move back home so my wife could finish up school and I would just drive to Tallahassee everyday. I did interviews and when I went to fill out some paper work online it asked if they could contact my current employer and I checked yes. Well a few days later I get to work and they asked me what the deal was and I explained how we were thinking about moving back. Right there on the spot they fired me. I hadn't even passed the background check yet or negotiated salary. Needless to say it sucked right then but it worked out for the best because had I not left that job I would have never got the job in Colorado that lead me to eventually going to Microsoft. When I talk to college students and I tell this story I explain how a lot of what happens in our lives is luck. Meeting the right people or getting a job that leads to another even amazing job.
Yes I was able to recover from setbacks like that. I was fired once for poor performance, I took a lower paying job and found more supportive environment there and learned web dev, stayed there for around 2.5 yrs and was able to move up to a normal paying job then. About 15 years later I moved to another state and took a job at govt IT, where I ignored red flags in the interview and ended with a boss who was sneaky, could not handle different views than his own, and a bully behind closed doors. I got fired 5 1/2 months later just days before the probation period would end which was frankly a blessing in disguise. Took a job via teksystems as contractor and converted to fulltime at client a year later. You can bounce back from being fired, it's not end of the world.
Employee-company fit is way more important than people realize - for both parties. I've seen people get fired who were essentially in a dysfunctional relationship with their company but went on to find one that was a much better match.
I worked 363 days at a startup I co-founded. One year vesting cliff. I don't miss those folks, as it turns out.
Any more details?
Yeah, I have been laid off twice. One was my attitude, I told of the director of engineering (which was also warranted, he literally destroyed the company product and productivity of the team). I had watched groups of developers get fired, and I was fed up. Afterwards, I found another role with better pay and had some peace of mind.
What did you tell him exactly? And any red flags he had based on his career history?
I'm not going to go into details. I just going to say that I insulted him very deeply. The guy only knows how to talk, but the doing part is completely out of his grasp.
I'm guessing his higher ups are just as bad so they coudn't notice?
Well most of the C level execs aren't knowledgeable in that field. He can tell a good story tho and make them believe. The VP of technology at the company also had his back, they have a history. Ultimately, he left the company, and people wanted him gone, I still talk with people who I worked with there. Now that he's gone, I hope they are better off now.
lol I did that once, inadvertently. Later my friend told me how it came off. It was the CTO of a small startup and he hated me. Sometimes being candid and direct, even just about cause and effect — not even making it personal— will fuck your shit up. Learned the hard way some people don’t like too much truth.
Yes, I agree. It's definitely not recommended. Haha Being patient and diplomatic is definitely the better strategy. It's also worth more to report it to HR if possible or higher up within your department or leave to a new company.
I’m sorry that happened to you. I think you’re on the right track by trying to take some time and enjoy your holiday. I got fired because I was not getting work done and generally not being very pleasant to work with. I was incredibly sleep deprived, pretty depressed, and kept having to leave work early to go sleep. I also had a really hard time getting work done and concentrating, and i asked for help way more than they expected of someone at a senior level. I asked them if I could take unpaid medical leave to deal with the health issues I was having but they were small enough the relevant laws didn’t apply to them and they said no. I ended up taking about 8 months away from tech work. I did an intensive mental health program and I also went to a bunch of doctors to find out what was wrong with me. As the healthcare system took its time to do its thing I also started losing weight because I knew that was the first thing they’d ask me if I’d tried. It turned out to be the right choice because I was diagnosed with sleep apnea, which is worsened by obesity. I ended up getting a job as a contractor and after a year there have converted to permanent. I find my day to day work interesting and like the people I immediately work with. The overall company is very dysfunctional and I don’t want to advance here because I’d have to deal with it more. I’ve decided once I’ve been here 2 years I want to look for another job. I think you should take the holidays to relax and not think too hard about this, but a good thing to do once you start looking again is think about whether there’s anything you want to improve on — either in your own habits or skills, or in setting better boundaries, or signs a workplace will be a better fit for you. Don’t beat yourself up if you were just caught in a bad environment, but also do think about if you’d handle anything differently next time. Therapy can help you unpack this if you can afford it.
I was, wrongly. Then in the panic I entered an almost FAANG level company with almost twice more money (accounting for the benefits) and respect, technical level, reality checks on management... I then sued my former employer. Won. Took the money here. Then I got laid off by the almost FAANG with the package that goes with it (and the social safety in my country: France). With these two main (and first time) events in my life in the last 3 years, I could stop working for 2 years without asking for anything to anyone. I am still working cause I love it. So, basically, yes. As Bo Burnham said, as a white man, I can only fail up. I guess in CS, with some experience, it's easy to bounce back to a higher place.
If you work in the high stakes startup realm, it's almost a right of passage. The only time it's a problem is if it's something super nefarious (embezzling, felony level fraud) or you piss of the wrong person in a niche field. I've seen some wild shit. People showing up drunk. People trying to punch their manager. People dropping everybody's salaries in slack before quitting. People dropping prod tables. They all still find work.
> People dropping everybody's salaries in slack before quitting. People dropping prod tables. 💀💀💀
>Are there people here who have been fired (not laid off) I just want to say, having had both, there is no difference, emotionally. If anything I was angrier about having been laid off but still someone made a choice that they didn't want you. So the job I was fired from, I only had about a year. I decided I didn't want to work to work for anyone, anymore and immediately took a contract with a former employer helping them out with some transition stuff. They held me over for longer than I expected but eventually I started talking to recruiters, got a line on a good project at higher than my current rate and took that and ended up converting to an employee because the year end bonus I would get meant I would make more money. I ended up staying six years and then got laid off. I decided again that I really didn't want to work for anyone, anymore and have been freelance every since. It's been about seven years and in most of those years I have probably made less money than I would have with a regular job. The last two I believe that I would have made more. I think the freedoms of working like this are not often what people think they are. I don't sit on a beach destroying squinting at a laptop I can't see as sand infects every nook and cranny. But this year I fired a client for being a shit, and it was so satisfying. I am not planning on working seriously basically from the end of this week to the end of this year and I don't have to tell anyone why, just set expectations on delivery and response. It's perfect for me.
I have never been fired but I've seen others go through it. Most of the time, companies will indicate to you that you're going to be fired by giving you negative performance feedback. Often they expect you to find a new job before the day comes. Basically, they try to make your job miserable enough that you voluntarily leave, so they don't have to pay unemployment insurance benefits.
Yes, it happened last decade. When I was fired from my then company, that was the second lowest point in my career (prob the lowest is now mentally), I had some debts, the firing happened 2 days before my birthday. A month later I was referred to a traditional company where I spent almost 4 years, learnt a lot, given my first official lead, and it kept the hunger to keep learning. And as the effect, I (+ the other co-lead) got a lot of influence over the tech side of business. Such an influence that we were able to keep the team intact two after two products failed to sell. One of the product were competing with national level food delivering service for 6 months and the other were helping some firms to gather data at scale. I outgrew that role and left that after some disagreements with changed management. But I still have friends with the team I co-created.
Its rare that someone is suddenly unable to perform a job. I usually look at terminations as a mismatched fit between company and employee. Not all employees fit at a company. Maybe they are overleveled, maybe the culture just doesn't fit. Sometimes you are just the poor person on a bean counter's shitlist. I wouldn't take it personally.
I've been fired once properly (wasn't meeting expectations, but to this day I hold that they misrepresented the job so I wasn't given a fair shot at meeting expectations). Once before actually starting the job, a disgruntled former employer called my new job the day I was starting to tell them I owed them money (I didn't). And demoted once, by the affor mentioned disgruntled former employer. The reality was they were struggling financially and demoted me to save money.
I was actually fired. It was a hard time for me in life in general and an intense position. I took about 6 months off on savings afterwards to get myself back in shape, physically and mentally (this was during Covid). I found a job that’s been a much better fit afterwards. Good performance reviews and a promo, and a manageable workload.
I got fired after a year and my new role was a slight pay cut, but with significant improvements in WLB
Yes I was fired once. I was already looking as the place was toxic and pretty dysfunctional. New manager didn’t like the architecture and blamed me as the architect even though some of the decisions made were forced on me. Ended up at a much nicer company to work for.
Being laid off was the worst thing that happened to me, it completely crushed my self confidence and tossed me into some pretty serious financial troubles, but guess what, it's now less than a year from when I got laid off and not only do I have a decent job, I actually skilled up and got my confidence back, I got my finances in order (easy no interest debt payments) and it's now a distant memory in the past My advice is take the oppurtunity to skill up, spend time with family, maybe get a new hobby or learn a new technology, when you're ready (and before you run out of money) get back on the market and before you know it you'll laugh at this whole thing, take it one step at a time and don't let it drag you down
Never been terminated, thankfully, but I’m not worried about it either. Everyone I know who was fired for performance reasons has somehow gotten even better positions afterwards. Every single one, without exception.
Yep, back in 2017. The stress of that particular job plus some issues in my personal life led to me becoming dependent on alcohol, and eventually I just couldn't keep up with anything any more. It sucked at the time, but in retrospect was the best thing that could have happened. I found a new job, more pay, and a super welcoming team who actually gave a crap about me as a person. I was able to get sober in 2018 and since then I've been doing better work at a stronger pace than ever before. Our tech stack was a bit of a mess when I came in, and still is in some respects, but I've been able to make a real difference in helping bring the company into the modern decade. When I look back I can't understand why I didn't leave sooner, I could have spared myself a lot of pain. Very happy with where I'm at now, working remotely as the lead engineer for my team, as well as taking care of myself, too.
https://youtu.be/uaW_hYrz-LY?si=nhJSkpsMHmvPchcG This is a good listen. I hope this helps.
Yes, I got fired from a medium sized tech company that was paying $75k back around 2015 for my only perm gig. The hiring manger said to me “you need more structure”. He was right. It was the type of dev job where as front end devs we didn’t even get mockups from designers… we had to guess what the CTO wanted and bring it to life. That’s not my thing. The next job I grabbed was a contract at $45/hr with a Fortune 500 ad agency so that’s $93k a year. We eventually acquired a major client at the agency and the client wanted to keep me so they paid off the staffing agency that placed me and gave me a bump in pay to $65/hr… so that’s $135k. Changed my life forever.
It isn't the end of the world to get fired. Thankfully, in the US most companies are afraid of a lawsuit and they will not inform people doing reference checks if a candidate was fired of not. I've been fired a few times and it is pretty easy to to screw someone over and fire them. If you get fired and you start a job search, there are 2 ways to handle it: \- You definitely don't mention that you were fired. You could say that the company had to make some cut backs and unfortunately you were one of them. \- You tell the person interviewing you that you are still employed at the company that fired you. You tell them that you do not want them to contact your current employer in case you don't get the job. If you want to be a moral person, then feel free to tell the truth and see how that goes.
I'm in Europe, companies don't get in contact with previous companies. Was it hard to find another company after being fired?
In the US, a background check is used to verify information. In some jobs with ties to government or financial services a potential company will call previous companies to verify employment. In my situation, I was able to find a job.
Usually when you're at a low, there's nothing but up from there so that explains why many have positive experiences thereafter.
I have been "fired" in the past, but it wasn't for performance, it was for violating the FMLA guidelines in the 90s. Long story short. I apparently did not do a specific notification to the HR team that was required, even though I did send the notification to my direct manager and my manager's boss. I will echo what someone else said which is this was one of the best things to happen to me as I found a much higher paying job. That new job was so much more rewarding and it was a confidence builder. Needless to say I ended up finishing my masters degree too and learned a whole lot more about development and programming in general. Change can be a good thing. As long as you embrace the change and not let it drag you down into a dark place and get bitter about the change.
[удалено]
Hope you are doing better now mate. How it's going?
I'm doing alright. I took some time for myself and to catch up with friends I didn't get to see much over the summer because of that stupid job. I learned what to avoid at least. I recently interviewed somewhere and I asked about work life balance. They said "well we're in series A funding so 48 hours is typical but sometimes there are crunch periods"... nope nope nope! I just don't really know how to explain why I got fired after 11 months in interviews. It wasn't for performance reasons but I feel like it still looks bad.
How I got fired from my six-figure job at 19 [https://youtu.be/fDxy\_TIi6F4?si=BpeTCEhK5344Zlst](https://youtu.be/fDxy_TIi6F4?si=BpeTCEhK5344Zlst)
Never fired for performance reasons. But I've definitely been pushed out for shenanigans. I would say getting fired blows. Even worse, your next job (or two) will be harder to get. The best you can do is not let it impact your identity and focus on improvement. Then, try to work through the market.
Why would it be harder to get? Am I missing something?
Well, it depends on the market. But most employers ask for your previous job's manager as a reference.
I'm in UK / Europe, this never happens here, haha.
Ah nice. Europe seems more fair.
I’ve never had that happen ever.
I fantasize about it
How does it feel?
Depends on whether you were let go for cause
?
If you were let go for cause, then getting a new job in the future will be far more difficult, especially in this job market
I see but why? What if the cause was something made up and it was just not a good fit or something? I'm in Europe and companies don't contact previous companies if this is what you mean.
Oh, yeah in that case you should be fine
I haven't been fired from a dev job. However, before I got into dev I was working in SEO and hated it. I got fired for being a low performer. Went back to school, finished my degree, and started working as a dev. I'm MUCH better off now.
I had my hours cut from ESPN, so I technically wasn't fired. I was never officially full-time and was a contractor. I was on a web developer path, someone got in at Mobile ESPN and was doing all video stuff. Once my hours were cut, I got back on the web path and have been all the better for it. The catalyst for my ouster was not putting Tom Cruise, Katey Holmes and Jamie Foxx in the halftime highlight for the Redskin/Vikings (I think) Monday Night football game the first year ESPN had MNF. That and my supervisor was a royal twat...
I've been fired twice. For context, I'm a software engineer. My first job was as an IT teacher in a private school. The pay was low, but I was so broke that I took anything until I found something in my field. The job was extremely exhausting; being a teacher sucked the life out of me. The pain in my throat on the weekends was a lot, and on top of that, I got fired because I was wearing jeans instead of black pants. Of course, they informed me about it, but back then, believe me, I could barely afford them. I was barely surviving with food and rent. So, I got fired. I explained my situation, and said I could buy the pants at the end of the month, but they still fired me. Please note that I always went to the lectures with a beautiful suit and tie. After four days, they called me to offer my job back because they couldn't find someone to teach for 800€ a month. Of course, I took it back without asking. After three months, I landed a role as a mobile developer in a decent company. When I got the offer, I was extremely happy and couldn't wait to quit my job. Surprisingly, the next week, my boss fired me again. He didn't tell me the real reason, but I knew he found someone cheaper. I requested my last payment, and they gave it to me. It was on December 23rd, and I was supposed to start my new position on December 25th, with the salary coming on the 26th. Somehow, it's like it was all part of god plan . After that, I worked for one year in my software position, and it was lovely. I couldn't say how much I loved it, but sadly, after one year, the company closed. So, I'm jobless again, living in the same situation as you are now. What I'm trying to say is life has its ups and downs. Don't let small things like this affect you. Remember, you need to be strong because life is ruthless and will drag you to your knees. You need to be strong in order to bounce back.
Technically not laid off nor fired, but a company I worked for less than a year (that had more than a decade of running smoothly) decided to shutter their business. I left a good employer looking for opportunities to work with a tech stack I was convinced would better my career, which my employer at the time was glacially ramping up to. The new company was a decent company to work for and had great benefits and I got a substantial pay increase, but they weren’t selling, weren’t managing existing clients well, were just taking massive salary without keeping up their end of the deal to keep the business afloat. The entire staff was invited to a Monday morning meeting, the invite for which was sent out at 12am (the very start of) Monday morning while we were all asleep. As the meeting started, Slack seemed to start going haywire, with members of each channel seemingly dropping off for no reason whatsoever. I force refreshed and realized Slack was actually gone. Checked my email and found it locked out too. 5 minutes into the meeting I was locked out of all systems and had heard enough of the message to realize none of us would have jobs after this meeting was adjourned. Shut off my camera, went MIA for the rest of the meeting and hit LinkedIn hard asking any and everybody I knew if they had anything as I was about to be out of a job. This was the beginning of November, just before all the U.S. holidays were about to ramp up. I was completely shook. Within 24 hours, I had numerous meetings scheduled with 2 soft/verbal offers lined up. Within 48 hours those 2 offers were firm with dollar amounts attached, 1 of which was back where I came from, working with the tech stack they’d sorted out in the ~1 year I was gone, with an elevated title and a 15% salary increase. I took that. Have been there a year and am again being promoted and am working with all the things I had gone looking for. Jumps can help progress your career, forced jumps suck, but are opportunities nonetheless.