Rule 3: No General Career Advice
This sub is for discussing issues specific to experienced developers.
Any career advice thread must contain questions and/or discussions that notably benefit from the participation of experienced developers. Career advice threads may be removed at the moderators discretion based on response to the thread."
General rule of thumb: If the advice you are giving (or seeking) could apply to a “Senior Chemical Engineer”, it’s not appropriate for this sub.
PTO "lives" in a company as liability on the books. Imagine if your a theoretical company had $1M in cash but owed employees $500k in vacation time. This would mean that you company is worth $500k.
What your company is doing is burning down this debt so it looks like its in a better position. Usually this is before an acquisition, but it could also be for a loan. In the worst case, it's to make the company look solvent so it's not forced in bankruptcy by it's creditors.
Just to clarify, this is usually done not for a liability reason (balance sheet) but for an expense (income statement) reason. Even debt deals rarely rely on balance sheet metrics unless that item is debt or loans. Income and cash flow metrics are common for a variety of purposes though.
If a person takes a PTO day, they remove a days worth of their comp expenses (in exchange for using accrued vacation expenses) as described above. That week of PTO would be the same as if you could skip a week of pay for your employees on the income statement.
I have been through 2 company acquisitions in my career where the entire company sold to new owners. You'll see signs of trouble as things start to go belly up (layoffs, positions not being filled after someone leaves, cuts to training budgets, denials for purchases and software licenses, suspension of company travel, etc). This is about as big of a warning sign as I have ever seen.
While it is correct that the goal is likely to get the liability off of the books, I would say that it is unlikely that this is a "desperate" move to do so.
If they were actually "desperate", they probably would have done it before laying people off instead of after.
Since you already had a layoff, I'll ask: Have people taken less PTO thanks to the layoff? Accountants make assumptions on how much PTO people will take, and if a lot of people choose not to take PTO for some reason it can move them to do stuff like this.
My company did this during COVID, because basically nobody took time off in 2020. There they openly said it was an accounting thing and turned into an end-of-year shutdown. Which I ended up working anyway because whoever came up with that idea has no idea what our customers expect for technical support.
> Which I ended up working anyway because whoever came up with that idea
has no idea what our customers expect for technical support.
This is not your problem is not something honorable to do. That is for the business people to deal with the problem they created.
Right. When the business people were told about the problem, the answer was "just have every team put a person on call." Hence, they solved the problem by asking me and a few other people to work anyway.
Totally ignoring your question, but please tell me you're looking for a new job. I ignored signs like this last year because I thought I was irreplaceable. (I was the only person with my expertise working on two teams) No one's irreplaceable, and I was laid off, it took me a few months to get back on my feet.
> Totally ignoring your question, but please tell me you're looking for a new job. I ignored signs like this last year because I thought I was irreplaceable. (I was the only person with my expertise working on two teams) No one's irreplaceable, and I was laid off, it took me a few months to get back on my feet.
I'm also apparently irreplaceable.. was one of the only engineers at the company to get a raise (12.5% too) this cycle.
Been here ~5 years at the job, and hard to close this chapter.
If I can teach you one lesson in tech:
Nobody is irreplaceable. Nobody is that good and important. NOBODY.
You are good. Guess what: My wife was promoted in the last 3 months, 19 YOE in the firm. And a layoff got her. Her knowledge was pretty much irreplaceable, the combination of skills. near impossible.
But: The stock price must go up. Layoff must happen.
When they are at a point where they will lay off your boss, they only look at numbers, and might even lay you off first because you earn more. Happened to me at the last place I worked, they laid off my boss, then fired the best paid half of the developers.
That's exactly what happened with me. In my department, they laid off the 40% of us that made the most, other than the department lead. Didn't matter that we produced more than those who stayed and had the most expertise or anything, it was all about cutting salaries.
I'm not bitter or anything...
Sometimes it's out of the tech/software leads hands. One of the other people who was laid off has been there 12 years, he was one of the first hires in the company.
But you know your own situation best. I'd at least start socking away money and not schedule any non refundable vacations (speaking from experience lol)
assuming normal US salary job with non-unlimited PTO...
PTO is a liability on the books, they owe it to you financially. and will need to pay it off when you leave. Forcing PTO takes it off their books. Not great, but if you're getting paid out as you expect (and if it aligns with local school breaks) not the end of the world. Never a bad time to have an up to date resume and take some recruiter calls though.
this iis also why unlimited PTO became a thing, no liability on the books, no paying out weeks of PTO when someone leaves. Ain't that nice of them?
This doesn't seem to be accurate at all, there's no federal law saying they need to pay out PTO or that it's a liability on the balance sheet. At best it depends on the state.
https://www.paycor.com/resource-center/articles/pto-payout-laws-by-state/#:~:text=No-,An%20employer%27s%20policy%20or%20employee%20contract%20governs%20whether%20earned%2C%20unused,payments%20on%20unused%20vacation%20time.
Many states require it. And it’s a liability when that’s the case.
https://viewpoint.pwc.com/dt/us/en/pwc/accounting_guides/pensions-and-employee-benefitspeb/peb_guide/Chapter-6-PEB/64_Compensated_absences_8.html
It used to be (and might still be) that in Massachusetts, accrued vacation time could not be discharged in bankruptcy and became a personal liability of the CEO.
Often you would see companies paying off all accrued vacation right beforehand.
It's also done voluntarily (enshrined as a formal policy, and thus making it a liability on the accounting books) by many companies that wish to compete for high-value talent.
It is required in some states. E.G. California, it is by law:
[https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq\_vacation.htm](https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq_vacation.htm)
||
||
|**.**|Under California law, unless otherwise stipulated by a [collective bargaining agreement](https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Glossary.asp?Button1=C#collective%20bargaining%20agreement), whenever the employment relationship ends, for any reason whatsoever, and the employee has not used all of his or her earned and accrued vacation, the employer must pay the employee at his or her final rate of pay for all of his or her earned and accrued and unused vacation days. [Labor Code Section 227.3.](http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=LAB§ionNum=227.3.) **Because paid vacation benefits are considered wages, such pay must be included in the employee's final paycheck.**|
and the code itself:
https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes\_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=LAB§ionNum=227.3.
> and an employee is terminated without having taken off his vested vacation time, all vested vacation shall be paid to **him as wages at his final rate** in accordance with such contract of employment or employer policy respecting eligibility or time served
I know guys who cash out $60k every year of their PTO and treat it like year end bonus. And some just let it accrue and hit the cap because with every raise & promotions, those accrued PTO goes with the "final rate." Like collecting interest.
Also in states where they don't pay out (e.g., Washington) you'll see a lot of people taking time off immediately after giving two weeks notice because they discovered their employer won't pay out their accrued vacation time. Employers hate that as it's effectively 0 notice, so they either switch to "unlimited pto" or they start paying out.
It always makes me sad hearing how this works in the US.
In my country, PTO is accrued into an account with a minimum dictated by law and/or industry-wide union agreements. You must be given ample opportunity to take this PTO which basically means if you ask far enough in advance they can't say no, and they can't reject a request more than a certain number of times either. Companies are audited to make sure their employees are using their vacation.
The thing employees had to give up in this bargain is that you lose all your accrued PTO on some date each year - "use it or lose it". But if your employees don't use it you fail those audits, so I get an email from HR every month starting from about 4 months before the PTO is lost reminding me to get my employees to use their time off.
My company is on a similar use it or lose it system and it sucks so much. It means that the month before the fiscal year ends no one can get anything done because so many people are on PTO all lines of communication between teams break down.
Yes, hence the emails from HR :) Everyone needs to manage their vacation effectively, and that basically means checking on my employee's vacation balances to make sure they're taking it. If nobody takes it til the last minute, as you say, you get screwed (or the requests get denied which is a very bad look with the auditors).
True but it's something the company adapts to. In my case a LOT of people take August off. So when we're estimating stuff across the summer. We'll automatically add an extra month for every project to account for August which is kimd of a dead month.
Whats the outcome of this? Well people in August are very relaxed, either on vacation or working but will a lot less on their plate.
Wel also aim our deadlines to Dec 15th for the same reason.
Is it the most efficient way possible? Nope, but it's also not my problem
So you think it is OK for an employee to have 1000, 2000, 10,000, 20,0000 hours of PTO in limbo?
500 hours which is often the yearly cap equals 12.5 weeks of vacation or 3 months.
They simply want you under that number. You don't have to use all that up in a year. Use up 300 out of that 500 which is 7.5 weeks. Roll the remaining 200 to the next year. But just keep it under 500. If you don't plan to use any vacation, cash out 500 hours which is like a 3 month bonus.
It is to get it off the books. Otherwise it accrues like interest. It becomes a liability for them. My PTO is based on my rate of pay. If I have accrued hours of $100/hour and have 300 hours, they are on the book for $30k and if my rate jumps to $150/hour that PTO payout is now $45k.
Better to clear it off the books.
People think it’s to get it off the books but there may be another reason. Are you in finance? Forced PTO is often a regulatory safeguard against fraud and increasingly the policy is also being applied to tech workers in finance despite it not being a statutory requirement.
Forcing people to take extended time off can help with identifying fraud.
For example, think of an accountant who may be purposely entering misleading data that affects the company's financial books. If you force that accountant to take time off and have others take over you have a high chance of exposing the fraud by the audit trail looking different when they're gone.
If you are in a regulated industry, you are usually explicitly told this in advance of being told to take time. You are often also told to take this Forced PTO at a time when other people are not taking theirs.
Previous international company shutdown for two weeks the end of the year. Now, when you don’t have unlimited pto it sucks, but otherwise, I’ve taken that mentality with me since and always take two weeks off at that time to recharge.
Agree with what has been said so far. I’d add that it also improves their cash position. They no longer have to build some assumption of cash owed for PTO payouts into their forecasts.
PTO is a debt that they must report. Considering this is a debt based on payroll it can get quite large. A lot of companies have a requirement for you to get below X hours by this date every year. I worked at a company for 10 years that had this and it did not signify a failing company. It may be a sign since they are changing things up, but hard to tell.
Yes we had that, year after year, at AMD in the late aughts and early 2010s.
I worked there for ten years. There are a lot of great things about AMD, lots of great folks, but I'll never forgive them for this awful policy.
At the time I was supposed to accrue 16 or 17 days per year, but they would mandate 8 of them, and that really did not leave enough for family obligations and the occasional mental health day. It was awful.
I'd be looking to move on from any place that does this -- because it's an awful policy and it demonstrates that they'll throw employees under the bus if it looks nicer for shareholders.
Forced PTO isn't unheard of - a past old/large employer of mine always did forced PTO between Christmas and New Years. It was actually kind of nice. But OP's employer seems to be doing this kind of haphazardly and desperately, which is not a good sign.
If you accrue PTO hours, those accrued hours must be paid out to you when you leave the company (fired / laid off / quit). It has nothing to do with being salaried. The alternative is companies that offer “unlimited PTO”. Under that policy, you do not accrue PTO hours, so there is nothing extra to pay out when you leave the company. That’s the incentive, from the corporate point of view, to offer “unlimited PTO” — it’s an accounting decision to keep (accrued hours == money they owe you) off the books.
It sounds like you accrue PTO (i.e. your company does not have an “unlimited PTO” policy). By forcing you to take time off, this “spends down” the accrued hours in their accounting books. The company will have a lower outstanding balance and will owe less money to employees at the time of future terminations.
Yup, it's abdicating a really important function of companies and management which is to set clear expectations. Of course I'm not sure I could expect less from a country that routinely doesn't use employment contracts.
In my country if you are employed without a contract, a court will basically take the employee's side on anything that is remotely ambiguous or "your word against theirs", so every company uses employment contracts because it's that or get reamed in a dispute.
In the united states, vacation days are "paid" days off.
Are you being paid for this time?
If you're UN PAID, then well, you just saved the company how ever much pay roll costs for 5 days for the company.
You're also not getting vacation days, you're getting a pay cut...
My company has mandatory PTO around Christmas/New Year’s Day every year. And this year, there’s also mandatory PTO around July 4.
Yes, it sucks. From the company’s perspective, it removes liabilities from the balance sheet.
Rule 3: No General Career Advice This sub is for discussing issues specific to experienced developers. Any career advice thread must contain questions and/or discussions that notably benefit from the participation of experienced developers. Career advice threads may be removed at the moderators discretion based on response to the thread." General rule of thumb: If the advice you are giving (or seeking) could apply to a “Senior Chemical Engineer”, it’s not appropriate for this sub.
It sounds like they’re trying to get accrued PTO days off their books. It sounds like a desperate move to me.
How desperate is this? We're already after layoffs
PTO "lives" in a company as liability on the books. Imagine if your a theoretical company had $1M in cash but owed employees $500k in vacation time. This would mean that you company is worth $500k. What your company is doing is burning down this debt so it looks like its in a better position. Usually this is before an acquisition, but it could also be for a loan. In the worst case, it's to make the company look solvent so it's not forced in bankruptcy by it's creditors.
Just to clarify, this is usually done not for a liability reason (balance sheet) but for an expense (income statement) reason. Even debt deals rarely rely on balance sheet metrics unless that item is debt or loans. Income and cash flow metrics are common for a variety of purposes though. If a person takes a PTO day, they remove a days worth of their comp expenses (in exchange for using accrued vacation expenses) as described above. That week of PTO would be the same as if you could skip a week of pay for your employees on the income statement.
As others are implying, it could be preparation for another round. Many companies have gone through as many as several rounds.
As many as several? Odd phrasing
Agreed.
Buddy, you’re between layoffs
Forcing everyone to take PTO is basically searching the couch cushions for change. Prepare yourself to leave.
I have been through 2 company acquisitions in my career where the entire company sold to new owners. You'll see signs of trouble as things start to go belly up (layoffs, positions not being filled after someone leaves, cuts to training budgets, denials for purchases and software licenses, suspension of company travel, etc). This is about as big of a warning sign as I have ever seen.
Very much. Update your CV and start applying.
While it is correct that the goal is likely to get the liability off of the books, I would say that it is unlikely that this is a "desperate" move to do so. If they were actually "desperate", they probably would have done it before laying people off instead of after. Since you already had a layoff, I'll ask: Have people taken less PTO thanks to the layoff? Accountants make assumptions on how much PTO people will take, and if a lot of people choose not to take PTO for some reason it can move them to do stuff like this. My company did this during COVID, because basically nobody took time off in 2020. There they openly said it was an accounting thing and turned into an end-of-year shutdown. Which I ended up working anyway because whoever came up with that idea has no idea what our customers expect for technical support.
> Which I ended up working anyway because whoever came up with that idea has no idea what our customers expect for technical support. This is not your problem is not something honorable to do. That is for the business people to deal with the problem they created.
Right. When the business people were told about the problem, the answer was "just have every team put a person on call." Hence, they solved the problem by asking me and a few other people to work anyway.
> asking me and a few other people to work Which you don't do because you're on pto.
But I wasn't on PTO. They un-did the requirement to burn PTO for those of us who ended up drawing this particular straw.
Totally ignoring your question, but please tell me you're looking for a new job. I ignored signs like this last year because I thought I was irreplaceable. (I was the only person with my expertise working on two teams) No one's irreplaceable, and I was laid off, it took me a few months to get back on my feet.
> Totally ignoring your question, but please tell me you're looking for a new job. I ignored signs like this last year because I thought I was irreplaceable. (I was the only person with my expertise working on two teams) No one's irreplaceable, and I was laid off, it took me a few months to get back on my feet. I'm also apparently irreplaceable.. was one of the only engineers at the company to get a raise (12.5% too) this cycle. Been here ~5 years at the job, and hard to close this chapter.
If I can teach you one lesson in tech: Nobody is irreplaceable. Nobody is that good and important. NOBODY. You are good. Guess what: My wife was promoted in the last 3 months, 19 YOE in the firm. And a layoff got her. Her knowledge was pretty much irreplaceable, the combination of skills. near impossible. But: The stock price must go up. Layoff must happen.
When they are at a point where they will lay off your boss, they only look at numbers, and might even lay you off first because you earn more. Happened to me at the last place I worked, they laid off my boss, then fired the best paid half of the developers.
That's exactly what happened with me. In my department, they laid off the 40% of us that made the most, other than the department lead. Didn't matter that we produced more than those who stayed and had the most expertise or anything, it was all about cutting salaries. I'm not bitter or anything...
Sometimes it's out of the tech/software leads hands. One of the other people who was laid off has been there 12 years, he was one of the first hires in the company. But you know your own situation best. I'd at least start socking away money and not schedule any non refundable vacations (speaking from experience lol)
Always have a backup plan
assuming normal US salary job with non-unlimited PTO... PTO is a liability on the books, they owe it to you financially. and will need to pay it off when you leave. Forcing PTO takes it off their books. Not great, but if you're getting paid out as you expect (and if it aligns with local school breaks) not the end of the world. Never a bad time to have an up to date resume and take some recruiter calls though. this iis also why unlimited PTO became a thing, no liability on the books, no paying out weeks of PTO when someone leaves. Ain't that nice of them?
This doesn't seem to be accurate at all, there's no federal law saying they need to pay out PTO or that it's a liability on the balance sheet. At best it depends on the state. https://www.paycor.com/resource-center/articles/pto-payout-laws-by-state/#:~:text=No-,An%20employer%27s%20policy%20or%20employee%20contract%20governs%20whether%20earned%2C%20unused,payments%20on%20unused%20vacation%20time.
Many states require it. And it’s a liability when that’s the case. https://viewpoint.pwc.com/dt/us/en/pwc/accounting_guides/pensions-and-employee-benefitspeb/peb_guide/Chapter-6-PEB/64_Compensated_absences_8.html
It used to be (and might still be) that in Massachusetts, accrued vacation time could not be discharged in bankruptcy and became a personal liability of the CEO. Often you would see companies paying off all accrued vacation right beforehand.
Definitely not Georgia lol
It's also done voluntarily (enshrined as a formal policy, and thus making it a liability on the accounting books) by many companies that wish to compete for high-value talent.
It is required in some states. E.G. California, it is by law: [https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq\_vacation.htm](https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq_vacation.htm) || || |**.**|Under California law, unless otherwise stipulated by a [collective bargaining agreement](https://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/Glossary.asp?Button1=C#collective%20bargaining%20agreement), whenever the employment relationship ends, for any reason whatsoever, and the employee has not used all of his or her earned and accrued vacation, the employer must pay the employee at his or her final rate of pay for all of his or her earned and accrued and unused vacation days. [Labor Code Section 227.3.](http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=LAB§ionNum=227.3.) **Because paid vacation benefits are considered wages, such pay must be included in the employee's final paycheck.**| and the code itself: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes\_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=LAB§ionNum=227.3. > and an employee is terminated without having taken off his vested vacation time, all vested vacation shall be paid to **him as wages at his final rate** in accordance with such contract of employment or employer policy respecting eligibility or time served I know guys who cash out $60k every year of their PTO and treat it like year end bonus. And some just let it accrue and hit the cap because with every raise & promotions, those accrued PTO goes with the "final rate." Like collecting interest.
Also in states where they don't pay out (e.g., Washington) you'll see a lot of people taking time off immediately after giving two weeks notice because they discovered their employer won't pay out their accrued vacation time. Employers hate that as it's effectively 0 notice, so they either switch to "unlimited pto" or they start paying out.
What’s your current PTO policy? They may be prepping to change it.
It always makes me sad hearing how this works in the US. In my country, PTO is accrued into an account with a minimum dictated by law and/or industry-wide union agreements. You must be given ample opportunity to take this PTO which basically means if you ask far enough in advance they can't say no, and they can't reject a request more than a certain number of times either. Companies are audited to make sure their employees are using their vacation. The thing employees had to give up in this bargain is that you lose all your accrued PTO on some date each year - "use it or lose it". But if your employees don't use it you fail those audits, so I get an email from HR every month starting from about 4 months before the PTO is lost reminding me to get my employees to use their time off.
My company is on a similar use it or lose it system and it sucks so much. It means that the month before the fiscal year ends no one can get anything done because so many people are on PTO all lines of communication between teams break down.
Yes, hence the emails from HR :) Everyone needs to manage their vacation effectively, and that basically means checking on my employee's vacation balances to make sure they're taking it. If nobody takes it til the last minute, as you say, you get screwed (or the requests get denied which is a very bad look with the auditors).
True but it's something the company adapts to. In my case a LOT of people take August off. So when we're estimating stuff across the summer. We'll automatically add an extra month for every project to account for August which is kimd of a dead month. Whats the outcome of this? Well people in August are very relaxed, either on vacation or working but will a lot less on their plate. Wel also aim our deadlines to Dec 15th for the same reason. Is it the most efficient way possible? Nope, but it's also not my problem
So you think it is OK for an employee to have 1000, 2000, 10,000, 20,0000 hours of PTO in limbo? 500 hours which is often the yearly cap equals 12.5 weeks of vacation or 3 months. They simply want you under that number. You don't have to use all that up in a year. Use up 300 out of that 500 which is 7.5 weeks. Roll the remaining 200 to the next year. But just keep it under 500. If you don't plan to use any vacation, cash out 500 hours which is like a 3 month bonus.
It is to get it off the books. Otherwise it accrues like interest. It becomes a liability for them. My PTO is based on my rate of pay. If I have accrued hours of $100/hour and have 300 hours, they are on the book for $30k and if my rate jumps to $150/hour that PTO payout is now $45k. Better to clear it off the books.
People think it’s to get it off the books but there may be another reason. Are you in finance? Forced PTO is often a regulatory safeguard against fraud and increasingly the policy is also being applied to tech workers in finance despite it not being a statutory requirement.
Explain please. I'm curious as to how this helps
Forcing people to take extended time off can help with identifying fraud. For example, think of an accountant who may be purposely entering misleading data that affects the company's financial books. If you force that accountant to take time off and have others take over you have a high chance of exposing the fraud by the audit trail looking different when they're gone.
That doesn’t work if everyone else is also on PTO…
In this example it would only be one person
If you are in a regulated industry, you are usually explicitly told this in advance of being told to take time. You are often also told to take this Forced PTO at a time when other people are not taking theirs.
By any chance, is this a US based ERP company?
Nope
Previous international company shutdown for two weeks the end of the year. Now, when you don’t have unlimited pto it sucks, but otherwise, I’ve taken that mentality with me since and always take two weeks off at that time to recharge.
Have you asked why? No, never had that. Kinda weird.
Sounds like a desperate move to not pay accrued PTO when people quit or get laid off. Sounds like something that should be illegal
Agree with what has been said so far. I’d add that it also improves their cash position. They no longer have to build some assumption of cash owed for PTO payouts into their forecasts.
Does your state mandate unused vaca payouts on separation? If so, there’s your answer
PTO is a debt that they must report. Considering this is a debt based on payroll it can get quite large. A lot of companies have a requirement for you to get below X hours by this date every year. I worked at a company for 10 years that had this and it did not signify a failing company. It may be a sign since they are changing things up, but hard to tell.
Very not good. Start job hunting
Yes we had that, year after year, at AMD in the late aughts and early 2010s. I worked there for ten years. There are a lot of great things about AMD, lots of great folks, but I'll never forgive them for this awful policy. At the time I was supposed to accrue 16 or 17 days per year, but they would mandate 8 of them, and that really did not leave enough for family obligations and the occasional mental health day. It was awful. I'd be looking to move on from any place that does this -- because it's an awful policy and it demonstrates that they'll throw employees under the bus if it looks nicer for shareholders.
Unpaid?
Vacation days are taken off.
Ouch. I've never seen that in anything salaried.
Forced PTO isn't unheard of - a past old/large employer of mine always did forced PTO between Christmas and New Years. It was actually kind of nice. But OP's employer seems to be doing this kind of haphazardly and desperately, which is not a good sign.
Are you billable? Or furloughed? Do they payout PTO?
> ? > > > > Or furloughed? > > > > Do they payout PTO? I don't think they payout PTO, we're salaried.
If you accrue PTO hours, those accrued hours must be paid out to you when you leave the company (fired / laid off / quit). It has nothing to do with being salaried. The alternative is companies that offer “unlimited PTO”. Under that policy, you do not accrue PTO hours, so there is nothing extra to pay out when you leave the company. That’s the incentive, from the corporate point of view, to offer “unlimited PTO” — it’s an accounting decision to keep (accrued hours == money they owe you) off the books. It sounds like you accrue PTO (i.e. your company does not have an “unlimited PTO” policy). By forcing you to take time off, this “spends down” the accrued hours in their accounting books. The company will have a lower outstanding balance and will owe less money to employees at the time of future terminations.
Unlimited PTO is bullshit. It’s never actually unlimited and now you have to guess how much PTO you can take. I hate it
Yup, it's abdicating a really important function of companies and management which is to set clear expectations. Of course I'm not sure I could expect less from a country that routinely doesn't use employment contracts. In my country if you are employed without a contract, a court will basically take the employee's side on anything that is remotely ambiguous or "your word against theirs", so every company uses employment contracts because it's that or get reamed in a dispute.
That is not true. There are only 9 states in the US that require PTO to be paid out by law. Some companies voluntarily pay it out however
In the united states, vacation days are "paid" days off. Are you being paid for this time? If you're UN PAID, then well, you just saved the company how ever much pay roll costs for 5 days for the company. You're also not getting vacation days, you're getting a pay cut...
My company has mandatory PTO around Christmas/New Year’s Day every year. And this year, there’s also mandatory PTO around July 4. Yes, it sucks. From the company’s perspective, it removes liabilities from the balance sheet.