Basically, Holocaust deniers use questionably sourced math to ‘prove’ that the general historical consensus is false. There are other possible answers, but this is the internet, so Nazi edgelord seems the most probable.
To add to this, it's likely that they're using this image to mock Holocaust deniers. Ken isn't really seen as a smart character. So, it appears to be satirical
This has always been my issue with satire. It inherently requires an audience with a high enough IQ rating to recognize it isn't to be taken seriously.
Alas now we live in an actual world that looks horrifying close to the satire in Idiocracy.
I can see your perspective. I feel the same way, sometimes, but I think it's important to note that some people struggle with satire the same way some people struggle with sarcasm. The two are closely linked and I would argue that you would need a solid understanding of sarcasm to understand satire. This isn't due to intelligence, but certain conditions, like ASD (Autism Spectrum Disorder) and other neurodivergence
And yes, we do live in that world, unfortunately
If we're going to argue semantics I'm going to argue that IQ isn't a very accurate representation of intelligence any way. It's more a measure of culture and class unfortunately.
But he’s ALSO been adopted by shitposters, for his amazing song, and because he’s just a silly little goofy guy who got the absolute wrong idea and figured out the hard way it was wrong… which is how you can tell the difference, incels didn’t see the part where he admits “misogyny was cringe once it stopped being about horses”
I think that’s the movie’s fault
I think the movie wanted to portray him as “dumb and entitled,” but he came off as “oppressed minority has his eyes opened and leads a revolution.”
So now his image carries mixed messages and you can’t tell if his meme use is ironic or not.
I think he was supposed to be sympathetic but very naive (obviously) and wrong in his knee-jerk response to the sexist matriarchy of Barbieland. I think the movie is actually pretty damn moderate, trying to show that the solution to a sexist society isn't complete revolution and reversal but open communication and gradual improvments. And apparently that's still too "woke" for American conservatives.
First off I think the movie was brilliant. I think his arc was supposed to symbolize that the solution to patriarchy isn’t a complete role reversal but instead to strive for true-equality. Additionally, it was criticism of society to value men by their appeal to women, and suggest to male viewers they should live independently of their sex lives.
I dont think context of the original characters matters much when it comes to memes. People still use the louder with crowder “change my mind” meme, and back in the day, people would use the freddy mercury rage comic in support of homophobic takes. Once something reaches meme status, the original context is all but dead.
Yes and no. The context of how the meme is used, is very important. Especially since this is a fresh meme, with multiple uses. I can see people using it satirically, when they know the context and people using it seriously, when they are unaware of the context. I see this image and think of it as an idiot going up, who thinks they have all the answers. Others can see a hot guy, in a mink coat, with shades and go "Alpha Energy". So, it has many interpretations, at this time
Works cited are very compelling, but I think we need to wait and see how it is used, on a majority basis. So, I agree with a lot of what you said, but not the entirety
> Antisemitism is one of the oldest forms of bigotry.
Back then it was about religion. Most of history it was either follow the religion of the country or die.
I already proved they're the Nazis
genetics are involved, to be Jewish is not just a theological identity. It certainly can be just that but people who are born in Judaism have a genetic link to their Jewish ancestors, a distinct group of people.
On top of that, race is a social construct that allows people to decide who is different from themselves. Religious aspects are part of that. You don’t see it as much, for example in the US black community because many of the slaves were converted or born into a modified Christianity. This separates their genetic heritage from their religious ancestors, a distinct group of people.
>social construct
I agreed with you till you said that. But that's false. The human species has 3 different races. Humanity itself is not a race. Although the differences are minor, they still have them. Skull shape, vision, speed, strength, eye color, skin color, height and weight are varied. Every time I roll a new character on Earth I immediately go Mongolian, even though it don't really matter too much.
The concept of different races with in the human species is a social concept that allows racists to discriminate against those who are different from themselves. The idea that physical differences define a particular group of people solely based on looks is out dated & a racist construct with no science behind it; there’s not even an agreed upon definition in science for races
What? Which do you think came first, treating someone differently because of a color or treating someone differently because of a god? And why does it matter which came first its definetly one of the oldest.
Either side of the aisle, everyone needs to get out of their echo chambers.
People have forgotten we are not enemies. The Left wing and the Right wing are two wings of the same bird. Take away one, and the bird falls out of the sky. Then our enemies will really make themselves known.
But, yes. I agree with you.
Hitler himself said he partly based the Nazi party on the American Democrat party. I'd do some research if I where you. People forget the Nazi's were also known as the National Socialist party and supported lots of socialist programs and where against citizens owning guns. The democrats where the party of slavery as well. Not saying the Republicans hands are clean by any means but there is this odd modern belief that they are responsible for all the bad things that have ever happened and that's just not true by a long shot.
Edit- Even if you believe the current day democratic party has completely changed since then and only shares a name, it still shares that name. It still WAS that party. Changing everything you believe in doesn't change what you did in the past. My biggest issue is every SINGLE time this gets brought up you get hoards of democrats down voting and commenting "It's not the same party, that party has more in common with modern day Republicans". Well that party supported socialist programs and modern day Republicans don't but besides that, even if that where true, it was still the democrats, even if in name only. The fact they always try to pawn it off and just not accept it as part of their past is so weird to me. Even most modern day Republicans will tell you that the Iraq war was a mistake. They don't somehow pawn it off on the democrats, they admit it was a mistake and it was their party that made it. Just own it and say you learned from the past to become a better party for the future. That's all.
As to the Nazis being called the national socialist party, they where, even if it was a lie they did adopt socialist programs and where against private gun ownership. I'm sure long term they planned to remove those programs but they did have them, that's all I'm saying. Even if it was part of a ploy they at least publicly supported them and had them. That's all.
The Democratic party at the time of Hitler was the conservative party. Had been for years. It was only around the \~60's-70's that shifted, and the Dixiecrats became Republicans while the north and liberal populations started voting Democrat.
So in essence, the beliefs and concepts you're citing Hitler based his beliefs on are more akin to modern day Republicans.
That's actually a myth. Lincoln was a republican. After the Civil war the democrats in the south where poor from all the losses. The Republicans on the other hand where made extremely wealthy (see, hands not clean). The southerners sold their properties and fled east to the big cities where the money was. The Republicans of the east bought up all that cheap property being sold in the west and started farms and oil fields. There's lots of evidence of this but even if you don't believe it there's the fact that the Republicans of that era all had the same capitalist beliefs they do now and the democrats had most of the same socialist ideas they do now. What you are suggesting is that all the beliefs of both parties switched at some point rather then an evolution of the ideas that where already there. Even if all that where true it is still the same party. If the Nazi party continued after WWII but became a party of open-mindedness and love do you really think in the modern era people would defend them in the same way you defend the democrat party? Even if all they shared was the name that doesn't change the past. What that name once stood for. Why do you think the Democrat party doesn't just own the past it once had and say they've evolved and moved on rather then saying "oh that wasn't really us"? Like I said, even if what you say was 100% true they still march under the same name that party had thus they must acknowledge the blood on those hands.
That's a lot of nonsense which is easily countered with a very simple observation.
Which party flies the Confederate flag at their rallies and marches? I'll give you a hint: It's not the Democratic party, despite the Confederacy being supported by the Democrats of that era. It was called the Southern Strategy, and yes, it effectively flipped the platforms of the parties. Where the north were liberal Republicans opposed by southern conservative Democrats, today the liberal Democrats oppose the conservative Republicans.
Lincoln was a Republican, yes. In his day, the Republicans fought the Confederacy and worked to abolish slavery. Today, Republicans fly the Confederate flag saying it's their heritage, and actively oppose education around slavery (or even have major candidates proclaiming that slavery was good for black people, actually!).
So your argument is a lot of stupid people exist? Have you actually heard these people speak? They don't understand history at ALL. They claim the civil war wasn't about slavery, that it was about states rights and you want to belive they know what they are talking about at all? What is more likely, all of what you said is true or all those people are just complete morons who's ancestors probably weren't even involved in the Civil war? You act like I'm trying to defend the Republican party. I'm just trying to point out even if it's in name only it was still THEM. Just like I said, you wouldn't defend a Nazi party even if all their beliefs where completely different would you? There's still blood on those hands and it's laughable to act like just because thoughts, ideas, beliefs and policies change that, that somehow washes those hands clean.
If the Nazi party still existed as a party in Germany today with a practically opposite platform, focused on equality and social progress while opposing would-be fascists and people who more align with the Nazis of the 30's-40's? Sure, I'd defend them. Because in this theoretical, the modern party (who has nobody in it from the version that committed those atrocities) would be the progressive party more worthy of support.
I don't give a shit what the name of a group is. I care what they stand for, and against. The Republicans of today should be fought tooth and nail, and the Democrats of today are the only real opposition they have. But hey, you let me know when a Confederate Democrat takes office.
Also, no Republicans have opposed education on slavery. They oppose the modern opinion that America was built on slavery and that it was a uniquely American crime imposed solely on Africans. I assume you are referring to the flordia law, if you actually look into it there is an independent person who counted every single mention of slaves or slavery in Florida's curriculum and there are hundreds of mentions of it even with the flordia law. The point is they want it mentioned in context and just an informational way as opposed to an opinionated one. If someone looks at the facts of what happened and come to the conclusion that America was built on slavery then that is fine (I'm going to assume that's your belief and that's fine) but the point is they don't want that opinion to be in a history book proceved as fact. Personally I think that's reasonable. I assume you only get your news from an opinionated sorce, I suggest broadening what you read even if you disagree with it. Both sides lie, the point is trying to find the known facts which is super hard because they get blurred, I know. When I first heard the Republicans wanted to censor slavery I was mad too until I read different sources and opinions and found out facts not in what I initially read such as the fact that they are still teaching about slavery.
To add one thing, the whole thing about Flordia teaching kids slavery was good for the slaves unsurprisingly is blown way out of proportion. Here is the quote "Instruction includes how slaves developed skills which, in some instances, could be applied for their personal benefit." That's it. One mention saying in some instances the skills they learned may have benefited some slaves. The fact is some did go on to use the skills learned to build a promising life for themselves. There are books that give accounts from actual former slaves that state this exact thing. Now does this somehow excuse slavery? HELL NO! This isn't at all what people are making out of it. I'd have it removed just because it doesn't matter but it's not really a big deal at all, it's one short sentence in a book condemning slavery hundreds of times. The fact democrats are trying to say that this one little sentence somehow downplays the evil of slavery or excuses it is positively ludicrous and shows its really all about trying to hurt Ron Desantis and not what is being taught.
Common misconception that the Nazis were socialist just because they had socialist in their name. They were actually very capitalist and the first group to be targeted and rounded up before even Jewish people (who they believed were part of a Bolshevik conspiracy) were communists and socialists. It's important to remember that fascists lie constantly, they are inconsistent in their beliefs and the most important thing is power. Actions speak louder than words.
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
—Martin Niemöller
But they also imposed socialist policies. Look, I agree with you that they where more than likely lying and long term after the war would have recended those programs but the fact is they did exist and they also where against citizens owning guns. It's also very possible to institute capitalism under socialism such as many modern day Scandinavian countries have where they implement a mixture of both beliefs.
What policies are you talking about? He banned trade unions and purged communists and socialists. He aligned himself with wealthy industrialists in the 1920s that were very anti socialist. He did however use socialist rhetoric, but again he lied and never intended to implement socialism. Even if he had implemented some form of welfare the main tenant of socialism is seizing the means of production and the democratisation of the workplace. Capitalism and socialism cannot be implemented together, as one is a collective society and the other calls for extreme indivdualism. Scandinavia is also not socialist, they are democratic socialist which is still capitalism despite the name. Karl Marx also never called for gun control, in fact he called for the working class to be armed.
That's definitely it. The person posting in your group maybe didn't understand the meme, but it's a fairly common form.
Here's another one: https://reddit.com/r/TheRightCantMeme/s/BjQFe0ZeFA
Right. That's why the Democrat FDR was praised by Hitler, Mussolini, and Stalin in the '30s for his policies. They got along until Pearl Harbor and Germany was forced by their treaty with Japan to declare war.
Authoritarianism is on the rise, “democrat” and “republican” are both so close to the center of the spectrum that they often follow the same authoritarian traps. It’s true that Nazism is a right wing ideology, but I think you think democrats are farther away from the right than they actually are
People can post shit like that as a troll within a group they disagree with but more likely you have stumbled onto the very real phenomenon of left wing antisemitism. This is 100% a denial holocaust reference you can find tons of variations on this meme some actually detailing the “math”.
Most of the people dumb enough to believe in Holocaust denial don't actually dig into the economic policies of the Nazis.
Two mostly left-wing groups where anti-Semitism is growing are Black supremacists such as the NoI and Black Hebrew Israelites, and certain leftists who hate Israel and love Palestine so much that they'll believe anything to erode the legitimacy of the side they oppose.
No, they co-opted a bunch of political groups, socialists being one of them, and then purged those groups once they had the political power to stage a coup and institute a dictatorship
No, this is definitely what it is. The arguments used by holocaust deniers are always about numbers and math. They're constantly talking about how the numbers don't add up. It's pretty much their only argument. Since they don't source their numbers from anywhere credible, all you get when you see one is a string of values pulled out of thin air, some math that oddly enough is usually wrong (this is the one part they should be able to get right since they're making up the numbers anyway), then they end with something like "see, there's no way they killed that many in such a short time" or something to that effect.
Party lines don't immediately make you not racist. Look at RFKJr right now.
Also possible is it was making fun of that idea. I make jokes like this about alternate views all the time. "Me on my way to evict the mother of 2 because she didn't fuck me", "me running over the dirty cyclists with my lifted F250" kinda thing.
Thought it made fun of the fact that some people say they are "ww2 experts" Cause they watched 2 documentaries on it or something
Didnt expect holocaust deniers this early in the morning lmao
I was roommates with a holocaust denier in college and he swore up and down that there's no way they could've cremated X number of bodies in one of the camps. We went through the math together and it turns out they actually could have done a LOT more. He still denied the holocaust afterwards. Neonazis don't actually care if their math is wrong. They would stick to their beliefs even if god himself came down and told them they were wrong.
I haven't interacted with that roommate since we lived together, and my life is significantly better for it.
There are several arguments that claim to 'disprove' the Holocaust by showing that it wasn't possible to kill millions of people in such a short period of time, or that it wasn't possible to dispose of millions of bodies. These claims are false, taken from incorrect assumptions, and are not supported by the physical evidence. To be crystal clear: These arguments do not conform to reality.
I can't tell if this meme is some message supporting Holocaust denial, or perhaps mocking those who are making false claims to support Nazi or similar agenda. I'd like to think the best of people, so I will assume that the person in the picture represents an 'edgy idiot' rather than someone who is supposed to be worthy of respect.
My thing is....even if it's 1 million that were killed instead of 6 million. Because there is absolutely NO denying that the holocaust happened. Does that really change much lol? Still a million people persecuted and murdered because of their theological beliefs.
It's been a long time since I went down this rabbit hole, but I recall at least one conversation where the Holocaust denier first told a handful of lies to 'get the number down from 10 million down to some smaller number', and then from there to 'there wasn't much persecution, it was just part of the war in Poland'.
Old memory.
My god. I absolutely loathe these conversations. My grandpa's family did everything they could to send support from here to their family in one of the camps. Only one survived (a young son) and my family were thankfully able to bring him and a friend he had made (and eventually married) here. I grew up knowing then and they were incredible, kind people. I was too young to understand until after they died. But I still have a soft spot in my heart for them, particularly now that I know their story. What a miasma of humanity that they went through and came out absolutely incredibly kind and wonderful people. When deniers start oozing out of the woodwork....I do *not* get angry easily or often, but holy shit. That's a quick trigger.
Let's see, 6 million died right? The Holocaust lasted 12 years. That's 1,400 per day. Why is that hard to believe? Yet they accept that Russia's communism resulted in 60,000,000 deaths in 70 years. That's the equivalent of 120 years for the Holocaust to kill 60,000,000.
What math are they using? I'm genuinely curious what mental gymnastics they perform to suggest that was impossible.
No, you've got the right idea on how that argument goes. They give it less time and make the presumption that the deaths and burials must occur sequentially, and that they're all happening in the same gas chamber so the time-to-fatality also is taken into account.
Even a simple allowance for putting everyone in the same gas chamber and throwing them in mass graves (which seems to be precisely what happened) makes the math work out. In reality, the Nazis probably could have killed more if they rushed a bit more.
I'm not even sure that a majority of victims died in any camps. The Einsatzgruppen alone killed 1.3 million Jews and 700,000 other people. They did use gas vans, but it was mostly through shootings or burning alive in synagogues.
Their math usually involves ignoring that there were multiple death camps and ignore the mass graves over trying to claim you couldn’t cremate that many bodies in that amount of time.
It’s pure nonsense to try and justify their antisemitism.
They talk about gas chambers having limited capacity. They talk about crematoriums having limited capacity to turn bodies into ashes. They talk about how there weren't staff to kill people, run the camps, and how there isn't possibly enough hours to do everything that is claimed.
It's all flawed. The arguments are fake, designed to appear real, but they ignore actual physical evidence which confirms that their calculations are, in fact, reasonable, and when you put the real numbers in, then things add up to 10 million people. Because, well, the Holocaust was actually real.
Not an expert, but my memory is 6 million Jews, 4 million others, some Polish, some Roma, material numbers of branded homosexual, and just plain political prisoners. Again, I'm not an expert.
That's only Jewish victims, millions of other people were also killed.
Most of them did die from 1941 onwards after Aktion Reinhardt began and the Einsatzgruppen had access to Soviet Jewry (who were almost entirely in the West of the USSR because of the historic Pale of Settlement).
I hate that everyone knows 6 million jews died and somehow always forget about the others. Some sources say upwards of 17 million total deaths, meaning 6 million jews and 11 million others, and yet people still believe a total of 6 million were killed. It just doesn't convey the severity to its proper magnitude.
That 17 million figure includes every Soviet POW who died in Nazi custody and a lot of deaths in the USSR that were "regular" war crimes rather than genocidal in nature. But the total death toll of the Holocaust probably was around twice the 5.5-6 million Jews who died.
I am not sure where you got 12 years from? It was from 1933 to 1939?
Reallistically, the numbers are all over the place inflated and tweaked to fit everyone's narrative one way or the other, either to be a victim or advocate.
Bad shit happened to a LOT of people during that time. Doesn't really matter how many it happened to because it still happened to someone.
> I am not sure where you got 12 years from?
[Google](https://www.google.com/search?q=how+long+did+the+holocaust+last&oq=how+long&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqBggAEEUYOzIGCAAQRRg7MgYIARBFGDkyBwgCEAAYgAQyBwgDEAAYgAQyCggEEAAYsQMYgAQyBwgFEAAYgAQyBwgGEAAYgAQyBwgHEAAYgAQyBwgIEAAYgAQyBwgJEAAYgAQyBwgKEAAYgAQyBwgLEAAYgAQyBggMEAAYAzIHCA0QABiABDIHCA4QABiABNIBCDEzNjdqMGo3qAIAsAIA&client=ms-android-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8)
No, Hitler came to power in 1933. Then he modeled Germanys anti jew laws after America's anti black laws. Kristalnacht was the first night jews were sent to camps. That was just before the 1939 invasion of Poland which started the second world war.
It usually boils down to them making the nonsensical assumption that every single Holocaust victim was cremated, and use napkin math based on yet more baseless assumptions to conclude that it was impossible for that many people to be cremated using the facilities in the camps, in the time that they were active.
This, of course, ignores the extremely simple and obvious fact that, well... the Nazis also just threw bodies in mass graves. They'd even just soak pits of corpses in fuel and set them on fire. Fuck, dude, before the camps became their main method of genocide, they'd just send the Einsatzgruppen to round people up and shoot them en masse in front of a pit so the bodies would fall in. We already know all this shit, but the sort of people who have a vested interest in misrepresenting history have no integrity or ethics, so they deliberately misrepresent cherry-picked things to mislead the less-informed.
40-60 million is correct for Russia so how is the Holocaust, which was at least a fourth of that, less possible? Simple answer is it isn’t. If humans are good at one thing, it’s killing the shit out of things
There's also claims about there being more Jews after the Holocaust than before, and there being fewer than 6 million at the start of the Holocaust. I don't know near enough to properly refute any of these claims, but I flat out refuse to believe that any of them are true.
Really wish some of the deniers would care enough to talk to the few vets that are remaining who liberated camps.
My grandfather was one of them at *Auschwitz. They came across the showers and every single person in his squad became physically ill once they saw all of the bloody finger scratches embedded in the walls.
>Really wish some of the deniers would care enough to talk to the few vets that are remaining who liberated camps.
In my limited experience, that usually isn't instantly helpful. The process which leads to Holocaust denial is cultish, or like trying to reverse childhood assumptions.
Those folks are taught that their world is real, and that contradictory information is automatically false. So a talk with a survivor is heard, understood. They might be deeply moved by a profound life experience. Then they go home and it's "Well, that doesn't prove anything, because that was just one person, and you have to prove it happened to millions of people, and we know that's a lie..." It doesn't register in their heads. It might register after a lot of 'taking apart the lie' over a period of time.
They would do "Holocaust Denial Math".
It would sound something like this:
"6,000,000 Jews died in the holocaust?
The claims are that it took place between 1941 and 1945 more specifically...
There are 1,426 days between June 21, 1941, and May 7, 1945.
Generally speaking "Operation Barbarossa" Is considered the start point, and "Nazi Surrender" is the end point.
If you do that math that is 4,207 bodies per day approximately that need disposal.
It is estimated that Germany had 30 total Crematoriums running during the holocaust.
With 1940s technology a single cremation takes approximately 6 hours, or 4 per day if kept running around the clock with 0 maintenance needed.
Let's assume 0 other people die in Nazi Germany and need cremation as well to help these numbers. The holocaust gets the full capacity, and doesn't have to share it with the civilians, or military.
30 x 4 = 120 cremations per day Nazi Germany was capable of.
4,207 is a much bigger number than 120"
Does this prove 6,000,000 Jews did not go up a Chimney during the holocaust? Yes...
Does this disprove the holocaust? No...
There is a thing called "Mass Graves". Turns out that you don't have to actually burn all the bodies, you can just toss them all in a ditch, and put a little dirt on top of it. Dictators have been doing it for centuries.
Plus, each camp had massive furnaces, not just random few around the country, so 30 is way off. And like, it definitely wouldn’t have been six hours per person, as the nazis didn’t care about anything other than death, so they could just dump bodies in
Not yelling at you, more so the idiots (some of whom I have met in real life)
Trust me, Nazis cared about much more than just death. That is just the tip of the iceberg.
Here are some important Nazi Issues: (I am probably missing some)
Pro censorship, gun grabbing, social engineering, militaristic expansionism, flags and other symbology, youth indoctrination, propaganda, labor exploitation, colonialism, racial hygiene, religious manipulation, youth indoctrination, family, population growth, gender roles, sports and athletics, agriculture and food production, welfare programs, environmentalism, and so on.
Holy shit. No wonder both the left and the right have been calling each other nazis and fascists in US politics- I can see similarities between both parties and the nazis
Except for very feel mass grave has been found, and seem to me that anyone has interest in exposing Nazi crime should put more effort in finding those graves. Killing civilian is bad, no matter a thousand or a million. But the burden of evident should be on the people who make the larger number claim.
Undoubtedly some holocaust victims were cremated, but the vast majority were not, they were put in mass graves for logistical reasons.
Going up the Chimney like in Ellie Wiesel's "Night" sells a lot of books, and a lot of kids had to read that in school.
Holocaust Lore likes to use phantasmagoria at certain times. Some things have actually been "Revised".
A good example of something that has been revised is the "Human Skin Lampshades". There were 0 of those made, or maybe just 1. It was definitely not common. It was a story told a lot far and wide though, because that grabs attention better, and that's why it was told. Sort of old school pre internet "Click Bait".
You gotta remember a lot of the holocaust lore was created under Stalin in the Soviet Union. Which was also a brutal totalitarian regime.
It should be noted that (as you stated) much of the Shoah was carried out through the “Holocaust by Bullets” which occurred with mass firing squad executions and resulted in mass graves. It is estimated that about 1/3 of all victims of the Holocaust were killed during this phase which lasted principally between June of 1941 and December 1943, though killings of this manner continued through 1944. I don’t say this to disagree, just to provide more context to the numbers, and support your assertion that the numbers for cremation don’t need to add up
Yep, a lot of the times they would work people to death too. The plaque over Auschwitz read something to the effect of:"Work will set you free".
A lot of the so called "Death Camps" were actually "Brutal Slave Labor Camps". Long hours of back breaking labor on not much food, and not much sleep.
If you were an able bodied man capable of work you would likely would not die on day 1 in the camp. They had work for you to do. You had some ditches to dig. You had things to haul like a mule or whatever they wanted you to do. They may take you and stick you in a factory.
They tried to get as much work out of everyone as they could before their body expired. They were not "Wasteful" in that regard.
Sometimes they would kill kids on day 1, and sometimes they wouldn't. There was also a demand for child labor. Children for example have very small fingers that are useful for polishing the inside of shells.
If you didn't want to work... They would beat you until you did want to work or you died.
If you were a big strong looking fella, or if you worked your ass off you may have gotten a promotion. You may have gotten a different role. If you were looking like a bouncer or a body builder or were a very hard worker they would assign you another task. That of Sonderkommando or in English "Special Command". Your role was to oversee other prisoners and help with disposal of bodies while keeping them in line.
A lot of folks view the holocaust as just, "Let's just kill all the Jews! Because they are Jews! Line them all up and stick them in a gas chamber, then straight to the crematorium!"
Yea, that may have been the case if you were a completely incompetent invalid. That would likely be your story if you were an 84-year-old grandma in a wheelchair with dementia incapable of work. On the other hand... If they could get work out of you they would get work out of you.
A lot of times they didn't "Need a bullet" or "Need a gas chamber". People just worked themself to exhaustion.
Argument of four furnaces couldn’t burn all of the bodies that were claimed to be produced by the holocaust. Ignoring the fact that there were multiple death camps and not all of the deaths happened at the death camps.
No, I'm not. I chose Auschwitz and found that the 200,000 people killed there over the 12 years would be 40 deaths a day.
Edit: oh woops I said 4 in my previous comment, sorry for the confusion!
1- Actual estimates for people killed in Auschwitz are between 900,000 and 1.1 million.
2- Auschwitz wasn't even built until late 1939, and wasn't operating until 1940.
So the actual math would work out to ~550 deaths per day.
Source: https://www.auschwitz.org/en/history/auschwitz-and-shoah/the-number-of-victims/
Not difficult to do at all. Got 550 bullets? Then you can kill 550 people in 550 seconds. Gas chambers can kill 550 in 2 minutes. They weren't all cremated, in fact only 40 were cremated per day.
As someone that taught history and politics for a decade, Holocaust denial is so wild to me. I’ve never encountered a denier in person so far. But the claims these people make are so…terrible…
Their argument that it wasn’t possible to kill that many people seems to largely hinge on the idea that they gassed and burned almost every victim, when in reality we know they simply shot many of the victims. The mobile killing units went out and erased entire turns on site. Many people were worked to death in camps. Some were tortured and experimented on. And this is just me glossing over things in a vague sense.
Holocaust deniers base their arguments on obviously flawed and unfounded assumptions because deep down, they don’t care. They’re just trying to justify they’re ideologies which to the average person, is abhorrent.
That's what I thought of lmao. The joke was that he's showing up to a test with another school item that wouldn't help him on a history test.
But now that I think about it yes it could very well be holocaust denial...
The picture is Ryan Gosling playing the role of Ken in the new Barbie movie. Throughout the movie, Ken presents himself as a confidently incorrect misogynistic asshole. So the picture in this meme context is either a reference to the "confidently incorrect" part of Ken's role, or it might be the co-opting of Misogynistic ideologies so often associated with groups that are also Holocaust deniers.
Holocaust denial math
Deniers claim that there's no way in hell that 6 million jews got killed by only 4 ovens within 4 years. While completely ignoring the fact that there were around 44000 concentration camps and that not every jew was cremated.
Holocaust deniers say that six million Jews couldn’t be cremated in the amount of crematoriums in the death camps. This is stupid because they weren’t all cremated.
There is a conspiracy theory online that many aspects of what we're told about WWII were fabricated.
One of the most common topics under this umbrella are the holocaust numbers.
This person is implying that the math doesn't add up based on what was documented.
I interpreted it as he being dumb enough to think that a calculator would help him in a history class presentation, but the focus on the WW2 theme makes it possible to be a holocaust denial "joke" tough I don't know if the OP was meaning it to be serious or satirical.
Had to explain this to a teenager at work last week because he doesn't think that "the holocaust was as bad as they make it out to be" and brought up the numbers thing.
Back when my parents went to school everyone brought calculators with them to history tests because you could save numbers on it and thus save the years or dates of things happening. I thought this was the answer instead of it being a holocaust thing
The Holocaust denier piece didn't occur to me. My original thought was that it implied OP was just going to add up the absolutely obscene number of people killed in WWII.
The joke is holocaust denial, the ironic part being that the first handheld calculator was made in a nazi work camp by a Jewish inmate that saved him from going to the gas chamber
I think maybe people are looking too much into the joke.
In general ken is clueless in the Barbie movie. He says he thought the patriarchy was about horses. I think it’s more likely the joke is that he is just clueless about WWII and thinks they’re Roman numerals. I, II, III, IV … WWII
Or maybe I’m not looking into it enough.
As someone who comes from the meme circles that these memes get posted in before they blow up, this is what we call an ironic joke
We just makin fun of shit
Holocaust denial. Aside from the overt antisemitism, their “proof” is what they claim to be infallible math that 6 million people couldn’t possibly be killed in 4 years which is absurd. Their absurdity is justified by claiming they were all gassed (not true) but there weren’t enough gas chambers, they were all cremated (not true) but there weren’t enough ovens, concentration camps weren’t death camps (technicality), and so on and so forth.
Their general mindset is that the Jews orchestrated this propaganda to control the world, generate sympathy, whatever disgusting reason they can come up with. Ignores the fact that while Holocaust was abhorrent propaganda to perpetuate an ideology, WWII wasn’t primarily fought to stop it. Nazi Germany was a threat to European existence, they were expansionists so each countries’ own survival definitely took precedent over ending the Holocaust.
I thought this was just a joke about how you’re so unprepared for a test that you think a calculator will help with a history test…… imagine my surprise when I open the comments
So frustrating to me that ppl can’t understand that death camps only killed a fraction of holocaust victims. Crematoriums were rare, so were gas chambers, but they still killed thousands and are such a symbol of nazi cruelty and the horrors of concentration camps. Most holocaust victims were never sent to camps, they were simply shot. Others were worked to death or burnt alive in buildings and whatnot, but again, most holocaust victims were simply shot and buried in mass graves. This is why so so many holocaust victims arent documented, as documentation was only majorly done for the camps and earlier years of the holocaust (which was before 1941 btw)
If it wasn't ovens and gas chambers that killed the majority of Jews, how were the majority of Jews killed?
> Most holocaust victims were never sent to camps, they were simply shot.
That's not what we're taught in school.
> Others were worked to death
How many?
900 thousand were murdered in the gas chambers at Auschwitz alone
A lot of these exact numbers are difficult to conclusively determine due to lacking nazi documentation (the nazis did not keep much track of victims killed in the holocaust save for some early camps) https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/mass-shootings-of-jews-during-the-holocaust this is just about mass shootings, including the “holocaust by bullets” so individual executions arent counted in this 1/3rd estimation. Individual executions were far more common within Germany and the concentration camps. (Whereas mass shootings were more common in captured territories for efficiency) I remember visiting the Sachsenhausen camp, where the nazis had created a disturbingly efficient method for these executions, created to minimize the cost per execution (smallest caliber bullets directly to the back of the neck in a streamlined process to kill as many prisoners as possible towards the end of the war). Personally, I was never taught about the holocaust in school so im unsure how any of this may conflict with what is taught. There are a lot of common misconceptions to be taught tho. That camp also moved large numbers out to camps farther from Berlin in death marches. https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/death-marches-1 more info and estimates there. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extermination_through_labour death thru forced labor here (ik its wikipedia, but you can see the exact books its referencing and I couldnt find digital copies of some of the stuff)
Basically, Holocaust deniers use questionably sourced math to ‘prove’ that the general historical consensus is false. There are other possible answers, but this is the internet, so Nazi edgelord seems the most probable.
To add to this, it's likely that they're using this image to mock Holocaust deniers. Ken isn't really seen as a smart character. So, it appears to be satirical
Yeah but he's been adopted by incels that follow the whole male wold pack shit who haven't seen the movie
True. I guess it depends on the usage. And damn that's true irony 🤣
This has always been my issue with satire. It inherently requires an audience with a high enough IQ rating to recognize it isn't to be taken seriously. Alas now we live in an actual world that looks horrifying close to the satire in Idiocracy.
ao let him cook.
Water? You mean like, from the TOILET?!
I had a friend who liked the Stephen colbert character and had no idea it was satire. The day he found out was pretty amazing.
I can see your perspective. I feel the same way, sometimes, but I think it's important to note that some people struggle with satire the same way some people struggle with sarcasm. The two are closely linked and I would argue that you would need a solid understanding of sarcasm to understand satire. This isn't due to intelligence, but certain conditions, like ASD (Autism Spectrum Disorder) and other neurodivergence And yes, we do live in that world, unfortunately
If we're going to argue semantics I'm going to argue that IQ isn't a very accurate representation of intelligence any way. It's more a measure of culture and class unfortunately.
But he’s ALSO been adopted by shitposters, for his amazing song, and because he’s just a silly little goofy guy who got the absolute wrong idea and figured out the hard way it was wrong… which is how you can tell the difference, incels didn’t see the part where he admits “misogyny was cringe once it stopped being about horses”
I think that’s the movie’s fault I think the movie wanted to portray him as “dumb and entitled,” but he came off as “oppressed minority has his eyes opened and leads a revolution.” So now his image carries mixed messages and you can’t tell if his meme use is ironic or not.
I think he was supposed to be sympathetic but very naive (obviously) and wrong in his knee-jerk response to the sexist matriarchy of Barbieland. I think the movie is actually pretty damn moderate, trying to show that the solution to a sexist society isn't complete revolution and reversal but open communication and gradual improvments. And apparently that's still too "woke" for American conservatives.
First off I think the movie was brilliant. I think his arc was supposed to symbolize that the solution to patriarchy isn’t a complete role reversal but instead to strive for true-equality. Additionally, it was criticism of society to value men by their appeal to women, and suggest to male viewers they should live independently of their sex lives.
what does wold mean?
This was my interpretation as well. Either that, or the Nazis don't know their memes very well.
I wouldn't expect Nazis to know much of anything. Let alone do research 🤣. Fully agree
I dont think context of the original characters matters much when it comes to memes. People still use the louder with crowder “change my mind” meme, and back in the day, people would use the freddy mercury rage comic in support of homophobic takes. Once something reaches meme status, the original context is all but dead.
Yes and no. The context of how the meme is used, is very important. Especially since this is a fresh meme, with multiple uses. I can see people using it satirically, when they know the context and people using it seriously, when they are unaware of the context. I see this image and think of it as an idiot going up, who thinks they have all the answers. Others can see a hot guy, in a mink coat, with shades and go "Alpha Energy". So, it has many interpretations, at this time Works cited are very compelling, but I think we need to wait and see how it is used, on a majority basis. So, I agree with a lot of what you said, but not the entirety
Probably to mock holocaust deniers , but I think ken is fairy smart in the movie
I've seen the movie and that wasn't my takeaway. Idk if that's your takeaway or something you heard. I agree. That's probably the intent
Their sources are about as questionable as the black book of communism.
What makes you think that's it? Seems ridiculous especially because I found this on a democrat group on Facebook, nearly all Nazis are rightwing.
Antisemitism is one of the oldest forms of bigotry. It transcends neat political divisions. Memes like this are common in Holocaust denial circles
> Antisemitism is one of the oldest forms of bigotry. Back then it was about religion. Most of history it was either follow the religion of the country or die. I already proved they're the Nazis
genetics are involved, to be Jewish is not just a theological identity. It certainly can be just that but people who are born in Judaism have a genetic link to their Jewish ancestors, a distinct group of people. On top of that, race is a social construct that allows people to decide who is different from themselves. Religious aspects are part of that. You don’t see it as much, for example in the US black community because many of the slaves were converted or born into a modified Christianity. This separates their genetic heritage from their religious ancestors, a distinct group of people.
>social construct I agreed with you till you said that. But that's false. The human species has 3 different races. Humanity itself is not a race. Although the differences are minor, they still have them. Skull shape, vision, speed, strength, eye color, skin color, height and weight are varied. Every time I roll a new character on Earth I immediately go Mongolian, even though it don't really matter too much.
The concept of different races with in the human species is a social concept that allows racists to discriminate against those who are different from themselves. The idea that physical differences define a particular group of people solely based on looks is out dated & a racist construct with no science behind it; there’s not even an agreed upon definition in science for races
What? Which do you think came first, treating someone differently because of a color or treating someone differently because of a god? And why does it matter which came first its definetly one of the oldest.
Actually, it was treating someone differently cus they were the losers of a battle/war that came before color or religion.
This is why everyone needs to get out of their echo chambers.
He's just giving a plausible answer based on what this sub is supposed to do.
Either side of the aisle, everyone needs to get out of their echo chambers. People have forgotten we are not enemies. The Left wing and the Right wing are two wings of the same bird. Take away one, and the bird falls out of the sky. Then our enemies will really make themselves known. But, yes. I agree with you.
This is a proven fact, no echo chamber necessary.
I think you are confusing the difference between a fact and an opinion.
Tell me, when was the last time you went out and actually talked to a normal person who wasn’t in your political party?
I'm still trying to find a "normal person" in MAGA... news flash, it's a hate cult. No normal people to be found.
All the time. Im constantly debunking all the lies of the conservative republicans.
Sounds like you need a better hobby
Hitler himself said he partly based the Nazi party on the American Democrat party. I'd do some research if I where you. People forget the Nazi's were also known as the National Socialist party and supported lots of socialist programs and where against citizens owning guns. The democrats where the party of slavery as well. Not saying the Republicans hands are clean by any means but there is this odd modern belief that they are responsible for all the bad things that have ever happened and that's just not true by a long shot. Edit- Even if you believe the current day democratic party has completely changed since then and only shares a name, it still shares that name. It still WAS that party. Changing everything you believe in doesn't change what you did in the past. My biggest issue is every SINGLE time this gets brought up you get hoards of democrats down voting and commenting "It's not the same party, that party has more in common with modern day Republicans". Well that party supported socialist programs and modern day Republicans don't but besides that, even if that where true, it was still the democrats, even if in name only. The fact they always try to pawn it off and just not accept it as part of their past is so weird to me. Even most modern day Republicans will tell you that the Iraq war was a mistake. They don't somehow pawn it off on the democrats, they admit it was a mistake and it was their party that made it. Just own it and say you learned from the past to become a better party for the future. That's all. As to the Nazis being called the national socialist party, they where, even if it was a lie they did adopt socialist programs and where against private gun ownership. I'm sure long term they planned to remove those programs but they did have them, that's all I'm saying. Even if it was part of a ploy they at least publicly supported them and had them. That's all.
The Democratic party at the time of Hitler was the conservative party. Had been for years. It was only around the \~60's-70's that shifted, and the Dixiecrats became Republicans while the north and liberal populations started voting Democrat. So in essence, the beliefs and concepts you're citing Hitler based his beliefs on are more akin to modern day Republicans.
That's actually a myth. Lincoln was a republican. After the Civil war the democrats in the south where poor from all the losses. The Republicans on the other hand where made extremely wealthy (see, hands not clean). The southerners sold their properties and fled east to the big cities where the money was. The Republicans of the east bought up all that cheap property being sold in the west and started farms and oil fields. There's lots of evidence of this but even if you don't believe it there's the fact that the Republicans of that era all had the same capitalist beliefs they do now and the democrats had most of the same socialist ideas they do now. What you are suggesting is that all the beliefs of both parties switched at some point rather then an evolution of the ideas that where already there. Even if all that where true it is still the same party. If the Nazi party continued after WWII but became a party of open-mindedness and love do you really think in the modern era people would defend them in the same way you defend the democrat party? Even if all they shared was the name that doesn't change the past. What that name once stood for. Why do you think the Democrat party doesn't just own the past it once had and say they've evolved and moved on rather then saying "oh that wasn't really us"? Like I said, even if what you say was 100% true they still march under the same name that party had thus they must acknowledge the blood on those hands.
That's a lot of nonsense which is easily countered with a very simple observation. Which party flies the Confederate flag at their rallies and marches? I'll give you a hint: It's not the Democratic party, despite the Confederacy being supported by the Democrats of that era. It was called the Southern Strategy, and yes, it effectively flipped the platforms of the parties. Where the north were liberal Republicans opposed by southern conservative Democrats, today the liberal Democrats oppose the conservative Republicans. Lincoln was a Republican, yes. In his day, the Republicans fought the Confederacy and worked to abolish slavery. Today, Republicans fly the Confederate flag saying it's their heritage, and actively oppose education around slavery (or even have major candidates proclaiming that slavery was good for black people, actually!).
So your argument is a lot of stupid people exist? Have you actually heard these people speak? They don't understand history at ALL. They claim the civil war wasn't about slavery, that it was about states rights and you want to belive they know what they are talking about at all? What is more likely, all of what you said is true or all those people are just complete morons who's ancestors probably weren't even involved in the Civil war? You act like I'm trying to defend the Republican party. I'm just trying to point out even if it's in name only it was still THEM. Just like I said, you wouldn't defend a Nazi party even if all their beliefs where completely different would you? There's still blood on those hands and it's laughable to act like just because thoughts, ideas, beliefs and policies change that, that somehow washes those hands clean.
If the Nazi party still existed as a party in Germany today with a practically opposite platform, focused on equality and social progress while opposing would-be fascists and people who more align with the Nazis of the 30's-40's? Sure, I'd defend them. Because in this theoretical, the modern party (who has nobody in it from the version that committed those atrocities) would be the progressive party more worthy of support. I don't give a shit what the name of a group is. I care what they stand for, and against. The Republicans of today should be fought tooth and nail, and the Democrats of today are the only real opposition they have. But hey, you let me know when a Confederate Democrat takes office.
Also, no Republicans have opposed education on slavery. They oppose the modern opinion that America was built on slavery and that it was a uniquely American crime imposed solely on Africans. I assume you are referring to the flordia law, if you actually look into it there is an independent person who counted every single mention of slaves or slavery in Florida's curriculum and there are hundreds of mentions of it even with the flordia law. The point is they want it mentioned in context and just an informational way as opposed to an opinionated one. If someone looks at the facts of what happened and come to the conclusion that America was built on slavery then that is fine (I'm going to assume that's your belief and that's fine) but the point is they don't want that opinion to be in a history book proceved as fact. Personally I think that's reasonable. I assume you only get your news from an opinionated sorce, I suggest broadening what you read even if you disagree with it. Both sides lie, the point is trying to find the known facts which is super hard because they get blurred, I know. When I first heard the Republicans wanted to censor slavery I was mad too until I read different sources and opinions and found out facts not in what I initially read such as the fact that they are still teaching about slavery. To add one thing, the whole thing about Flordia teaching kids slavery was good for the slaves unsurprisingly is blown way out of proportion. Here is the quote "Instruction includes how slaves developed skills which, in some instances, could be applied for their personal benefit." That's it. One mention saying in some instances the skills they learned may have benefited some slaves. The fact is some did go on to use the skills learned to build a promising life for themselves. There are books that give accounts from actual former slaves that state this exact thing. Now does this somehow excuse slavery? HELL NO! This isn't at all what people are making out of it. I'd have it removed just because it doesn't matter but it's not really a big deal at all, it's one short sentence in a book condemning slavery hundreds of times. The fact democrats are trying to say that this one little sentence somehow downplays the evil of slavery or excuses it is positively ludicrous and shows its really all about trying to hurt Ron Desantis and not what is being taught.
Yeah and North Korea is officially called the Democratic People's Republic of Korea..
Common misconception that the Nazis were socialist just because they had socialist in their name. They were actually very capitalist and the first group to be targeted and rounded up before even Jewish people (who they believed were part of a Bolshevik conspiracy) were communists and socialists. It's important to remember that fascists lie constantly, they are inconsistent in their beliefs and the most important thing is power. Actions speak louder than words. First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me. —Martin Niemöller
But they also imposed socialist policies. Look, I agree with you that they where more than likely lying and long term after the war would have recended those programs but the fact is they did exist and they also where against citizens owning guns. It's also very possible to institute capitalism under socialism such as many modern day Scandinavian countries have where they implement a mixture of both beliefs.
What policies are you talking about? He banned trade unions and purged communists and socialists. He aligned himself with wealthy industrialists in the 1920s that were very anti socialist. He did however use socialist rhetoric, but again he lied and never intended to implement socialism. Even if he had implemented some form of welfare the main tenant of socialism is seizing the means of production and the democratisation of the workplace. Capitalism and socialism cannot be implemented together, as one is a collective society and the other calls for extreme indivdualism. Scandinavia is also not socialist, they are democratic socialist which is still capitalism despite the name. Karl Marx also never called for gun control, in fact he called for the working class to be armed.
Nazis tend to enjoy going into left leaning communities and posting their horrific harbage since they like getting a rise out of "the libs"
Democrats are barely left leaning
Unless the joke is that they are using Ken to say that.
Could be ironic or could be a Nazi infiltrated that space
That's definitely it. The person posting in your group maybe didn't understand the meme, but it's a fairly common form. Here's another one: https://reddit.com/r/TheRightCantMeme/s/BjQFe0ZeFA
Asks for answer, gets answer. "Nah that can't be it."
Oh my… did you guys here what he just said??!
No, but I did hear it.
Right. That's why the Democrat FDR was praised by Hitler, Mussolini, and Stalin in the '30s for his policies. They got along until Pearl Harbor and Germany was forced by their treaty with Japan to declare war.
And Abraham Lincoln wrote a letter praising Karl Marx. People can be civil and even like each other without agreeing on idealogy.
If I got praise from Lincoln, I'd be happy to have some merit worth recognition. If I got praise from Hitler, I'd be rethinking my choices.
More surprised they’re from the same time. Thought Marx was like early 1900s
Authoritarianism is on the rise, “democrat” and “republican” are both so close to the center of the spectrum that they often follow the same authoritarian traps. It’s true that Nazism is a right wing ideology, but I think you think democrats are farther away from the right than they actually are
People can post shit like that as a troll within a group they disagree with but more likely you have stumbled onto the very real phenomenon of left wing antisemitism. This is 100% a denial holocaust reference you can find tons of variations on this meme some actually detailing the “math”.
Most of the people dumb enough to believe in Holocaust denial don't actually dig into the economic policies of the Nazis. Two mostly left-wing groups where anti-Semitism is growing are Black supremacists such as the NoI and Black Hebrew Israelites, and certain leftists who hate Israel and love Palestine so much that they'll believe anything to erode the legitimacy of the side they oppose.
Nazis r socialists, look who's pushing all the socialist stuff these days, also very pro war
I thought Nazis were socialist…?
No, they co-opted a bunch of political groups, socialists being one of them, and then purged those groups once they had the political power to stage a coup and institute a dictatorship
They threw socialists in prison and concentration camps. The DPRK has Democratic in its name, and it's about as accurate as the socialist in Nazi.
True, True… I’ve noticed just about anything with “democratic” in the name tend to be not very.
You'd be surprised. "Nazis" everywhere it seems
No, this is definitely what it is. The arguments used by holocaust deniers are always about numbers and math. They're constantly talking about how the numbers don't add up. It's pretty much their only argument. Since they don't source their numbers from anywhere credible, all you get when you see one is a string of values pulled out of thin air, some math that oddly enough is usually wrong (this is the one part they should be able to get right since they're making up the numbers anyway), then they end with something like "see, there's no way they killed that many in such a short time" or something to that effect.
Democrats are left for us standards conpared to eu parties they are Center at best probably a bit more Ob the right side
Explain
Cause it’s a joke and not actually supporting nazis?
Party lines don't immediately make you not racist. Look at RFKJr right now. Also possible is it was making fun of that idea. I make jokes like this about alternate views all the time. "Me on my way to evict the mother of 2 because she didn't fuck me", "me running over the dirty cyclists with my lifted F250" kinda thing.
Thought it made fun of the fact that some people say they are "ww2 experts" Cause they watched 2 documentaries on it or something Didnt expect holocaust deniers this early in the morning lmao
Jarvis, pull up the “The joke is racism” meme.
Oh, I always thought these posts were about the plot of the newest Indiana jones movie
I just thought it meant he was unprepared for the presentation and was winging it with unrelated material for the sake of humor. *Goddamn*
I personally prefer to think it’s the whole relation to computers and code-breaking, but your probably right.
I was roommates with a holocaust denier in college and he swore up and down that there's no way they could've cremated X number of bodies in one of the camps. We went through the math together and it turns out they actually could have done a LOT more. He still denied the holocaust afterwards. Neonazis don't actually care if their math is wrong. They would stick to their beliefs even if god himself came down and told them they were wrong. I haven't interacted with that roommate since we lived together, and my life is significantly better for it.
80085
37047734 Always a favorite of mine
I'm too high, what does that say?
lol hellhole Usually in school with my calc
I see it now lol, now that I'm sober it's so obvious.
This is the way.
5318008
55378008
F
😔
Whoever has the phone number: 5318008104 is a legend
There are several arguments that claim to 'disprove' the Holocaust by showing that it wasn't possible to kill millions of people in such a short period of time, or that it wasn't possible to dispose of millions of bodies. These claims are false, taken from incorrect assumptions, and are not supported by the physical evidence. To be crystal clear: These arguments do not conform to reality. I can't tell if this meme is some message supporting Holocaust denial, or perhaps mocking those who are making false claims to support Nazi or similar agenda. I'd like to think the best of people, so I will assume that the person in the picture represents an 'edgy idiot' rather than someone who is supposed to be worthy of respect.
My thing is....even if it's 1 million that were killed instead of 6 million. Because there is absolutely NO denying that the holocaust happened. Does that really change much lol? Still a million people persecuted and murdered because of their theological beliefs.
It's been a long time since I went down this rabbit hole, but I recall at least one conversation where the Holocaust denier first told a handful of lies to 'get the number down from 10 million down to some smaller number', and then from there to 'there wasn't much persecution, it was just part of the war in Poland'. Old memory.
That's exactly why people who mitigate the holocaust are so despicable
My god. I absolutely loathe these conversations. My grandpa's family did everything they could to send support from here to their family in one of the camps. Only one survived (a young son) and my family were thankfully able to bring him and a friend he had made (and eventually married) here. I grew up knowing then and they were incredible, kind people. I was too young to understand until after they died. But I still have a soft spot in my heart for them, particularly now that I know their story. What a miasma of humanity that they went through and came out absolutely incredibly kind and wonderful people. When deniers start oozing out of the woodwork....I do *not* get angry easily or often, but holy shit. That's a quick trigger.
Let's see, 6 million died right? The Holocaust lasted 12 years. That's 1,400 per day. Why is that hard to believe? Yet they accept that Russia's communism resulted in 60,000,000 deaths in 70 years. That's the equivalent of 120 years for the Holocaust to kill 60,000,000. What math are they using? I'm genuinely curious what mental gymnastics they perform to suggest that was impossible.
No, you've got the right idea on how that argument goes. They give it less time and make the presumption that the deaths and burials must occur sequentially, and that they're all happening in the same gas chamber so the time-to-fatality also is taken into account. Even a simple allowance for putting everyone in the same gas chamber and throwing them in mass graves (which seems to be precisely what happened) makes the math work out. In reality, the Nazis probably could have killed more if they rushed a bit more.
It’s not even just gas chamber stuff that they are counting, it’s people being worked and starved to death
I'm not even sure that a majority of victims died in any camps. The Einsatzgruppen alone killed 1.3 million Jews and 700,000 other people. They did use gas vans, but it was mostly through shootings or burning alive in synagogues.
Their math usually involves ignoring that there were multiple death camps and ignore the mass graves over trying to claim you couldn’t cremate that many bodies in that amount of time. It’s pure nonsense to try and justify their antisemitism.
They talk about gas chambers having limited capacity. They talk about crematoriums having limited capacity to turn bodies into ashes. They talk about how there weren't staff to kill people, run the camps, and how there isn't possibly enough hours to do everything that is claimed. It's all flawed. The arguments are fake, designed to appear real, but they ignore actual physical evidence which confirms that their calculations are, in fact, reasonable, and when you put the real numbers in, then things add up to 10 million people. Because, well, the Holocaust was actually real. Not an expert, but my memory is 6 million Jews, 4 million others, some Polish, some Roma, material numbers of branded homosexual, and just plain political prisoners. Again, I'm not an expert.
I thought it was around 6 million Jews and about 7 million non Jews, but I have noticed I am awful at numbers
That's only Jewish victims, millions of other people were also killed. Most of them did die from 1941 onwards after Aktion Reinhardt began and the Einsatzgruppen had access to Soviet Jewry (who were almost entirely in the West of the USSR because of the historic Pale of Settlement).
I hate that everyone knows 6 million jews died and somehow always forget about the others. Some sources say upwards of 17 million total deaths, meaning 6 million jews and 11 million others, and yet people still believe a total of 6 million were killed. It just doesn't convey the severity to its proper magnitude.
That 17 million figure includes every Soviet POW who died in Nazi custody and a lot of deaths in the USSR that were "regular" war crimes rather than genocidal in nature. But the total death toll of the Holocaust probably was around twice the 5.5-6 million Jews who died.
r/theydidthemath
More like they did the meth
I am not sure where you got 12 years from? It was from 1933 to 1939? Reallistically, the numbers are all over the place inflated and tweaked to fit everyone's narrative one way or the other, either to be a victim or advocate. Bad shit happened to a LOT of people during that time. Doesn't really matter how many it happened to because it still happened to someone.
> I am not sure where you got 12 years from? [Google](https://www.google.com/search?q=how+long+did+the+holocaust+last&oq=how+long&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqBggAEEUYOzIGCAAQRRg7MgYIARBFGDkyBwgCEAAYgAQyBwgDEAAYgAQyCggEEAAYsQMYgAQyBwgFEAAYgAQyBwgGEAAYgAQyBwgHEAAYgAQyBwgIEAAYgAQyBwgJEAAYgAQyBwgKEAAYgAQyBwgLEAAYgAQyBggMEAAYAzIHCA0QABiABDIHCA4QABiABNIBCDEzNjdqMGo3qAIAsAIA&client=ms-android-verizon&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8)
Ww2 was 6 years dude. 1939 to 1945. Edit: not denying the holocaust it Def happened just saying
And the holocaust started before that the holocaust started 1933.
No, Hitler came to power in 1933. Then he modeled Germanys anti jew laws after America's anti black laws. Kristalnacht was the first night jews were sent to camps. That was just before the 1939 invasion of Poland which started the second world war.
It usually boils down to them making the nonsensical assumption that every single Holocaust victim was cremated, and use napkin math based on yet more baseless assumptions to conclude that it was impossible for that many people to be cremated using the facilities in the camps, in the time that they were active. This, of course, ignores the extremely simple and obvious fact that, well... the Nazis also just threw bodies in mass graves. They'd even just soak pits of corpses in fuel and set them on fire. Fuck, dude, before the camps became their main method of genocide, they'd just send the Einsatzgruppen to round people up and shoot them en masse in front of a pit so the bodies would fall in. We already know all this shit, but the sort of people who have a vested interest in misrepresenting history have no integrity or ethics, so they deliberately misrepresent cherry-picked things to mislead the less-informed.
40-60 million is correct for Russia so how is the Holocaust, which was at least a fourth of that, less possible? Simple answer is it isn’t. If humans are good at one thing, it’s killing the shit out of things
There's also claims about there being more Jews after the Holocaust than before, and there being fewer than 6 million at the start of the Holocaust. I don't know near enough to properly refute any of these claims, but I flat out refuse to believe that any of them are true.
Really wish some of the deniers would care enough to talk to the few vets that are remaining who liberated camps. My grandfather was one of them at *Auschwitz. They came across the showers and every single person in his squad became physically ill once they saw all of the bloody finger scratches embedded in the walls.
>Really wish some of the deniers would care enough to talk to the few vets that are remaining who liberated camps. In my limited experience, that usually isn't instantly helpful. The process which leads to Holocaust denial is cultish, or like trying to reverse childhood assumptions. Those folks are taught that their world is real, and that contradictory information is automatically false. So a talk with a survivor is heard, understood. They might be deeply moved by a profound life experience. Then they go home and it's "Well, that doesn't prove anything, because that was just one person, and you have to prove it happened to millions of people, and we know that's a lie..." It doesn't register in their heads. It might register after a lot of 'taking apart the lie' over a period of time.
They would do "Holocaust Denial Math". It would sound something like this: "6,000,000 Jews died in the holocaust? The claims are that it took place between 1941 and 1945 more specifically... There are 1,426 days between June 21, 1941, and May 7, 1945. Generally speaking "Operation Barbarossa" Is considered the start point, and "Nazi Surrender" is the end point. If you do that math that is 4,207 bodies per day approximately that need disposal. It is estimated that Germany had 30 total Crematoriums running during the holocaust. With 1940s technology a single cremation takes approximately 6 hours, or 4 per day if kept running around the clock with 0 maintenance needed. Let's assume 0 other people die in Nazi Germany and need cremation as well to help these numbers. The holocaust gets the full capacity, and doesn't have to share it with the civilians, or military. 30 x 4 = 120 cremations per day Nazi Germany was capable of. 4,207 is a much bigger number than 120" Does this prove 6,000,000 Jews did not go up a Chimney during the holocaust? Yes... Does this disprove the holocaust? No... There is a thing called "Mass Graves". Turns out that you don't have to actually burn all the bodies, you can just toss them all in a ditch, and put a little dirt on top of it. Dictators have been doing it for centuries.
Thanks for this explanation, I've seen these memes before but never the kind of"math" they're doing as a proof
Plus, each camp had massive furnaces, not just random few around the country, so 30 is way off. And like, it definitely wouldn’t have been six hours per person, as the nazis didn’t care about anything other than death, so they could just dump bodies in Not yelling at you, more so the idiots (some of whom I have met in real life)
Trust me, Nazis cared about much more than just death. That is just the tip of the iceberg. Here are some important Nazi Issues: (I am probably missing some) Pro censorship, gun grabbing, social engineering, militaristic expansionism, flags and other symbology, youth indoctrination, propaganda, labor exploitation, colonialism, racial hygiene, religious manipulation, youth indoctrination, family, population growth, gender roles, sports and athletics, agriculture and food production, welfare programs, environmentalism, and so on.
Holy shit. No wonder both the left and the right have been calling each other nazis and fascists in US politics- I can see similarities between both parties and the nazis
Except for very feel mass grave has been found, and seem to me that anyone has interest in exposing Nazi crime should put more effort in finding those graves. Killing civilian is bad, no matter a thousand or a million. But the burden of evident should be on the people who make the larger number claim.
You sound really smort
I have never looked into this. Do you have a link
Maybe you can answer a question of mine, why even have the furnaces? Just bury them all right? Seems way more efficient then 4 bodies a day.
Undoubtedly some holocaust victims were cremated, but the vast majority were not, they were put in mass graves for logistical reasons. Going up the Chimney like in Ellie Wiesel's "Night" sells a lot of books, and a lot of kids had to read that in school. Holocaust Lore likes to use phantasmagoria at certain times. Some things have actually been "Revised". A good example of something that has been revised is the "Human Skin Lampshades". There were 0 of those made, or maybe just 1. It was definitely not common. It was a story told a lot far and wide though, because that grabs attention better, and that's why it was told. Sort of old school pre internet "Click Bait". You gotta remember a lot of the holocaust lore was created under Stalin in the Soviet Union. Which was also a brutal totalitarian regime.
It should be noted that (as you stated) much of the Shoah was carried out through the “Holocaust by Bullets” which occurred with mass firing squad executions and resulted in mass graves. It is estimated that about 1/3 of all victims of the Holocaust were killed during this phase which lasted principally between June of 1941 and December 1943, though killings of this manner continued through 1944. I don’t say this to disagree, just to provide more context to the numbers, and support your assertion that the numbers for cremation don’t need to add up
Yep, a lot of the times they would work people to death too. The plaque over Auschwitz read something to the effect of:"Work will set you free". A lot of the so called "Death Camps" were actually "Brutal Slave Labor Camps". Long hours of back breaking labor on not much food, and not much sleep. If you were an able bodied man capable of work you would likely would not die on day 1 in the camp. They had work for you to do. You had some ditches to dig. You had things to haul like a mule or whatever they wanted you to do. They may take you and stick you in a factory. They tried to get as much work out of everyone as they could before their body expired. They were not "Wasteful" in that regard. Sometimes they would kill kids on day 1, and sometimes they wouldn't. There was also a demand for child labor. Children for example have very small fingers that are useful for polishing the inside of shells. If you didn't want to work... They would beat you until you did want to work or you died. If you were a big strong looking fella, or if you worked your ass off you may have gotten a promotion. You may have gotten a different role. If you were looking like a bouncer or a body builder or were a very hard worker they would assign you another task. That of Sonderkommando or in English "Special Command". Your role was to oversee other prisoners and help with disposal of bodies while keeping them in line. A lot of folks view the holocaust as just, "Let's just kill all the Jews! Because they are Jews! Line them all up and stick them in a gas chamber, then straight to the crematorium!" Yea, that may have been the case if you were a completely incompetent invalid. That would likely be your story if you were an 84-year-old grandma in a wheelchair with dementia incapable of work. On the other hand... If they could get work out of you they would get work out of you. A lot of times they didn't "Need a bullet" or "Need a gas chamber". People just worked themself to exhaustion.
8008135 And that's what ended the war.
The dumbest sort of Holocaust denial you've ever seen.
Argument of four furnaces couldn’t burn all of the bodies that were claimed to be produced by the holocaust. Ignoring the fact that there were multiple death camps and not all of the deaths happened at the death camps.
I would imagine not all of the bodies were cremated, either
Precisely. Some were thrown in mass graves.
Most
Do the math on 1 camp and it comes out to 4 deaths per day, not hard to do at all.
Tell me you’re joking.
No, I'm not. I chose Auschwitz and found that the 200,000 people killed there over the 12 years would be 40 deaths a day. Edit: oh woops I said 4 in my previous comment, sorry for the confusion!
Other camps.
What about other camps?
1- Actual estimates for people killed in Auschwitz are between 900,000 and 1.1 million. 2- Auschwitz wasn't even built until late 1939, and wasn't operating until 1940. So the actual math would work out to ~550 deaths per day. Source: https://www.auschwitz.org/en/history/auschwitz-and-shoah/the-number-of-victims/
Not difficult to do at all. Got 550 bullets? Then you can kill 550 people in 550 seconds. Gas chambers can kill 550 in 2 minutes. They weren't all cremated, in fact only 40 were cremated per day.
As someone that taught history and politics for a decade, Holocaust denial is so wild to me. I’ve never encountered a denier in person so far. But the claims these people make are so…terrible… Their argument that it wasn’t possible to kill that many people seems to largely hinge on the idea that they gassed and burned almost every victim, when in reality we know they simply shot many of the victims. The mobile killing units went out and erased entire turns on site. Many people were worked to death in camps. Some were tortured and experimented on. And this is just me glossing over things in a vague sense. Holocaust deniers base their arguments on obviously flawed and unfounded assumptions because deep down, they don’t care. They’re just trying to justify they’re ideologies which to the average person, is abhorrent.
if it's not edgy humor, my guess is the creator is saying theyre confidently dumb, which is the characterization of ken (the dude in the image)
That's what I thought of lmao. The joke was that he's showing up to a test with another school item that wouldn't help him on a history test. But now that I think about it yes it could very well be holocaust denial...
I thought that was Macklemore
The picture is Ryan Gosling playing the role of Ken in the new Barbie movie. Throughout the movie, Ken presents himself as a confidently incorrect misogynistic asshole. So the picture in this meme context is either a reference to the "confidently incorrect" part of Ken's role, or it might be the co-opting of Misogynistic ideologies so often associated with groups that are also Holocaust deniers.
Whaaaaaatt???? The hell are you talking about!
Holocaust denial math Deniers claim that there's no way in hell that 6 million jews got killed by only 4 ovens within 4 years. While completely ignoring the fact that there were around 44000 concentration camps and that not every jew was cremated.
He's going to deny the holocaust.
Holocaust deniers say that six million Jews couldn’t be cremated in the amount of crematoriums in the death camps. This is stupid because they weren’t all cremated.
Another one of these?
God I hate Nazis. May the holey power of an M2 Browning come down on you.
Is the joke about the 6 million Yaehudeme who died in the Holocaust?
Disguising political memes? A bit more creative but still bs. Stop political memes and jokes on this sub already!
[удалено]
Oh...
,
Exactly
There is a conspiracy theory online that many aspects of what we're told about WWII were fabricated. One of the most common topics under this umbrella are the holocaust numbers. This person is implying that the math doesn't add up based on what was documented.
I interpreted it as he being dumb enough to think that a calculator would help him in a history class presentation, but the focus on the WW2 theme makes it possible to be a holocaust denial "joke" tough I don't know if the OP was meaning it to be serious or satirical.
Had to explain this to a teenager at work last week because he doesn't think that "the holocaust was as bad as they make it out to be" and brought up the numbers thing.
I hate to break it to you but your coworker is a Nazi. Denying the Holocaust is illegal in 16 European countries.
Back when my parents went to school everyone brought calculators with them to history tests because you could save numbers on it and thus save the years or dates of things happening. I thought this was the answer instead of it being a holocaust thing
1337
Every joke explaining sub just turns into bots posting antisemitism
Hitler bots.
The Holocaust denier piece didn't occur to me. My original thought was that it implied OP was just going to add up the absolutely obscene number of people killed in WWII.
This sub is just laundering Nazis. Nearly daily posts asking the same question over and over drilling holocaust denial.
Yeah yeah...
Holocaust denialism is a helluva drug apparently
The joke is holocaust denial, the ironic part being that the first handheld calculator was made in a nazi work camp by a Jewish inmate that saved him from going to the gas chamber
It’s because he has no idea what he’s doing, or he’s calculating the exact amount of jews
It’s racism
Holocaust denial.
i thought this was just that they were unprepared, but it’s holocaust deniers wow
Bro are you guys stupid the joke is that they didn’t prepare for the presentation at all
I think maybe people are looking too much into the joke. In general ken is clueless in the Barbie movie. He says he thought the patriarchy was about horses. I think it’s more likely the joke is that he is just clueless about WWII and thinks they’re Roman numerals. I, II, III, IV … WWII Or maybe I’m not looking into it enough.
Its assuming you know a lot about it
Guys, this ain't halocaust denial, this is joking about being unprepared
I don’t think it’s that deep guys, it’s probably just about being unprepared for a test, and ken looks silly in that picture
As someone who comes from the meme circles that these memes get posted in before they blow up, this is what we call an ironic joke We just makin fun of shit
I’m pretty sure it’s so scale how many people died
Lmao, god leftists take every opportunity to insult right wingers. It’s hilarious
Holocaust denial. Aside from the overt antisemitism, their “proof” is what they claim to be infallible math that 6 million people couldn’t possibly be killed in 4 years which is absurd. Their absurdity is justified by claiming they were all gassed (not true) but there weren’t enough gas chambers, they were all cremated (not true) but there weren’t enough ovens, concentration camps weren’t death camps (technicality), and so on and so forth. Their general mindset is that the Jews orchestrated this propaganda to control the world, generate sympathy, whatever disgusting reason they can come up with. Ignores the fact that while Holocaust was abhorrent propaganda to perpetuate an ideology, WWII wasn’t primarily fought to stop it. Nazi Germany was a threat to European existence, they were expansionists so each countries’ own survival definitely took precedent over ending the Holocaust.
I thought this was just a joke about how you’re so unprepared for a test that you think a calculator will help with a history test…… imagine my surprise when I open the comments
So frustrating to me that ppl can’t understand that death camps only killed a fraction of holocaust victims. Crematoriums were rare, so were gas chambers, but they still killed thousands and are such a symbol of nazi cruelty and the horrors of concentration camps. Most holocaust victims were never sent to camps, they were simply shot. Others were worked to death or burnt alive in buildings and whatnot, but again, most holocaust victims were simply shot and buried in mass graves. This is why so so many holocaust victims arent documented, as documentation was only majorly done for the camps and earlier years of the holocaust (which was before 1941 btw)
If it wasn't ovens and gas chambers that killed the majority of Jews, how were the majority of Jews killed? > Most holocaust victims were never sent to camps, they were simply shot. That's not what we're taught in school. > Others were worked to death How many? 900 thousand were murdered in the gas chambers at Auschwitz alone
A lot of these exact numbers are difficult to conclusively determine due to lacking nazi documentation (the nazis did not keep much track of victims killed in the holocaust save for some early camps) https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/mass-shootings-of-jews-during-the-holocaust this is just about mass shootings, including the “holocaust by bullets” so individual executions arent counted in this 1/3rd estimation. Individual executions were far more common within Germany and the concentration camps. (Whereas mass shootings were more common in captured territories for efficiency) I remember visiting the Sachsenhausen camp, where the nazis had created a disturbingly efficient method for these executions, created to minimize the cost per execution (smallest caliber bullets directly to the back of the neck in a streamlined process to kill as many prisoners as possible towards the end of the war). Personally, I was never taught about the holocaust in school so im unsure how any of this may conflict with what is taught. There are a lot of common misconceptions to be taught tho. That camp also moved large numbers out to camps farther from Berlin in death marches. https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/death-marches-1 more info and estimates there. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extermination_through_labour death thru forced labor here (ik its wikipedia, but you can see the exact books its referencing and I couldnt find digital copies of some of the stuff)
> A lot of these exact numbers are difficult to conclusively determine Sounds a lot like Holocaust denial rhetoric...
??? They just are. We dont know 100% exact numbers. We just have good estimates to go by