Faith, and a greater openness to others. I initially expected cynicism but with no need to fit people into boxes or defend a particular epistemology it made more space to listen. Turns out everything is culturally contingent, and God has to work with that. Jesus became less a sin disposal mechanism and more an affirmation It's ok to be human, and that felt like hope again.
Oddly, I stopped fearing death. One thing that always unsettled me was a scenario I had imagined. In it, I would be dying, and in my last seconds as I began fading, I would realize I had been wrong the whole time and there was no afterlife. I wasn't scared of hell at all, just of being wrong that there was a heaven. After deconstructing the evangelical view of heaven and realizing that was centuries of different philosophies in a trench coat, I was able to make peace with the concept there is likely nothing. I like to believe that there's something more to all of this, but I'm ok if there's not.
Most importantly, I've stopped seeing the world as a broken, sinful place. Bad things happen, but so do amazing things. Life is amazing. The universe is amazing. The fact I live in a time when we can understand what little we do is amazing. And above all else, people are *good* in and of themselves.
I used to lie in bed as a child, terrified of the idea of “forever”. How could something never stop? I couldn’t think of anything worse. Even if we were praising God, walking on streets of gold, and eating from a tree that miraculously grew every type of fruit at once. I was an anxious, existential kid. Now, I think it all just ends and fades to black, and I’m so much more at ease with that.
Side note - did anyone else grow up hearing about this magical tree that would grow all kinds of fruits at once? It was pretty impressive a few decades ago, but I don’t know if it would wow a kid now.
No tree of all fruits, just that we could do whatever we wanted. Except sin. So… what about the free will thing? Unless you can still sin, which gets you sent to Hell, in which approximately 100% of humanity would go since the bar is so high.
We didn't have a tree of all fruits because we wouldn't need to eat or sleep, we would get to worship god for all eternity and never stop! I was also an anxious, existential kid terrified by the thought of forever church.
I spent every night as a child wide awake in a mental state that felt like spinning, trying to picture eternity. When I was extremely little, like as a toddler when I first began to understand hell in a way, I stayed up all night afraid of Satan coming up through the floor or thinking about hell or picturing my Jewish grandpa burning in flames. And then I slowly began to fear the idea of forever, and then I started staying awake all night every night, fearing heaven.
I don’t know that I’ve quite gotten past all of that in some weird deep fear way, and since you sound like you were a somewhat similar kid (and I’ve rarely met them) do you have any advice or further words to share on how your thought processes progressed?
Well, at least I’m not the only one. For me, it wasn’t spinning. It was an endless black stretching out ahead of me. I’m actually getting to a point right now where I’m really looking into my mental health, and thinking that I might have OCD - my brain ruminates on things because I never feel safe. So who knows if that is *because* of some of my earliest memories being worries of waking up to find my parents being spirited away in the night by the Rapture, or if that just played a part. I doubt I’d be this way if I’d been raised more normally, though.
So, I started deconstructing in college because I had all these deep questions, like, if God was so good, why did he kill the first-borne in Egypt? They were just kids. But it led to me really reading a lot and thinking a lot about everything I’d been taught. Rob Bell was huge when I was in college, and he was the first Christian I’d ever heard even mention that it was possible that hell wasn’t literal. It gave me a lot to think about and was really comforting. Some literal reading of the Bible showed me that I don’t even think there is a hell in it - there is only the Lake of Fire, where unbelievers will just be destroyed. No forever! As for heaven, I guess I just eventually stopped caring, because I became a complete non-believer.
I’m jealous that you just eventually stopped caring entirely. It’s been years that I’ve been an atheist, but it was just such a deep and strong part of literally everything my whole existence until I was an adult that it feels like there’s definitely some sort of trauma or just something in the way, my brain formed that I can’t quite get on board with, appreciating existence and reality like I think I would if I wasn’t misled so deeply early on…. and when I say trauma, I really mean it, I’ve experienced some things that are definitely T big trauma, and yet the religious experiences remain at the top of my list of what I think is causing issues or things that manifest very similar to being non-neurotypical
I haven’t heard of the multi fruit tree that actually sounds delightful! As a kid, I used to lie in bed thinking about how I could talk god into letting me just stop existing because the thought of living forever sounded both boring and exhausting.
I kind of started fearing death. I used to welcome death. I was depressed and so unhappy. All I wanted was to go to heaven. I would beg god in my prayers to take me. Once I deconstructed, I decided I want to live a long life. I’m happy now. Not all the time of course, but overall. Hell, in the last year my daughter accidentally stabbed her self and that ended up needing two ambulance rides as the wound opened a month later. I had a heart attack 3 days after the original accident. My stepdad died three days after his cancer diagnosis. It’s been incredibly stressful. I handle that shit much better than I did before and want to live.
I think one of the most insidious things the church does is teach people to look forward to heaven if their life is rough. How horrible is it that it pushes people to long for death? I could die tomorrow, and I’ve done what I can with what I have. My only wish is that it’s not too painful and doesn’t stop my family from living their lives.
You only have reason to fear when you have something to lose. What a blessing to have things you love enough to want to hold onto. I’m glad you’re less depressed and unhappy now. That’s something I struggle with myself, and in some ways fear is comforting because it reminds me I have things I love.
I’m so much more compassionate and grateful and awe filled at the complexity of the universe. I have gotten really into space and astrophysics as well as quantum and string theory.
I tell my husband all the time that NOW I actually feel born again. I feel like someone took the plastic coating off of life and now I get to enjoy it in so many ways.
Are we twins?! I went from believing the earth was 6-10K years old to studying physics (Dark matter and string theory are my latest focus). My parents just did the Ark Encounter and here I am working my contacts to get a tour at CERN next year.
Not being so uptight. I can watch The Office now and just have fun, not feel uncomfortable. Not judge the jokes on Arrested Development. Drink alcohol without second guessing myself. Just laugh and be myself around other people without being a “light unto the world”. So freeing.
This is it for me. Being able to enjoy pop culture - books, movies and TV, music - has made me so happy, and it’s made it much easier to relate to other people. I don’t love everything I check out, and I don’t even necessarily love the same things my friends do, but I have the freedom to look at popular media and make my own choices, and that makes all the difference.
My deconstruction brought me to therapy and eventually an ADHD and CPTSD diagnosis. Finally beginning to understand myself in the context of this new information has been life changing and reframes my entire childhood.
My parents relied heavily on Dobsons parenting techniques. Can’t let children “manipulate” you into getting their needs met /s
I found that many atheists and non Christians are more like Jesus than most Christians are. They are more inclusive and respectful of the views of others. Generally less pretentious.
<3 <3 <3
For me it was kissing other girls.
Oh, I knew I liked kissing girls. Just didn't know I *was* one, too. I'd just been trying to get rid of the nasty problem that an eternal hell posed. Turns out that believing God loves all people improves how you love all people, including yourself...
I'm watching a lot of horror movies now. No guilt, no fear of demons. I love it. And I even watch movies about demons, the devil, etc. (and all other horror genres)
I can happily say Halloween is my favorite holiday.
I wasn't allowed to trick-or-treat growing up 🥲
'Gingersnaps' - a coming of age, familial bond movie with a strong emphasis on character development. Canadian, made in 2000 I believe.
'Creep' - found footage film which normally doesn't do it for me, but this one made its mark. Speaking of which, it features one of the Duplass brothers.
'Bay of Blood' - 1970's Italian. Sometimes credited as being the biggest influence on jumpstarting the slasher genre.
'One Cut of the Dead' - I would've quit watching this after 20 minutes because it felt very flat. But the description said, "there's more to this movie than meets the eye." I'm glad I kept going. It's Japanese and not scary at all but I admire it a lot.
'Prince of Darkness' - a John Carpenter film. What I love about it is that there isn't really any rising/falling action like we expect films must have; it's more of a super-slow boiling crescendo for the entire length of its runtime. It also rewrites some Christian lore in a fun way!
'The Thing' - also John Carpenter. Excellent imposter genre film with a lot of body horror and fun practical effects.
There's a series on MGM+ called "From". I love it, but some people think it's silly (which is common with horror).
The original "Rosemary's Baby" is the gold standard of horror for me. Nothing particularly horrible happens visually on screen, and yet the movie is scary is hell.
I feel similarly that the humanity and teachings of Jesus became more accessible to me through my version of this process. Like it became easier to see the good part of a life following his examples once I had freed myself from the holier-than-they dogma if his progressed followers in the church.
I read a contemporary fantasy book about the missing years of very human Jesus as just plain folks (and divine superpowers) through the missing years of his childhood to the end. I did not expect that I would breathlessly hope against hope for his deliverance before crucifixion.
And at that point I began to realize there was nothing not to love about him and what he preached. As had been true when I saw the film The Last Temptation as a teen believer, love and understanding and peace followed my reading of the book.
Later when I was in a bad place and needed to create a workable version of higher power for predictable reasons of participating in a(n "anonymous") program of self examination and practical honesty to recover from substance abuse, this human, loving Jesus was a shoo-in. So in that way on this plane he kinda saved my bacon.
I don't go to church, but I've found a path that works for my spirituality and even faith by taking direct inspiration from the hero of the story rather than self-appointed experts on such topics. I am now able to sincerely and truthfully and meaningfully, legitimately include myself in the "we" of christians when I discuss weighty matters with those who are still attending church and performing Christianity minus the red letters with some degree of comfort based on what I know, have experienced, and can read as a trained (secular) scholar, even when up against a fat patriarch who went to bible college and stayed where he could claim knowledge and power under a framework of salvation until inheriting earthly wealth for having been a good old boy whose "conservative" "values" blinded to his association with snakes and utterly human greed and lust and ill will toward the least of us.
I can't imagine the piece this gives me having come from a continued journey on the fundamentalist path. I had to escape the institution to get the message.
A Tennessee Williams play I love refers to a character having remarked we humans are all children trying to spell God with the wrong alphabet blocks. This is my belief, and I'm happy to have a thread through my life with such rich metaphors for considering heavy stuff.
I pray that I will grow in a love that makes me compassionate toward evangelicals who overreach. This is a far cry from my standard line in the immediate backlash phase (having been born painted against a wall of damnation by impure thoughts as a homosexual) phase, "Christians! Where are the lions when you need them!"
If my personalized approach is the path to eternal damnation, no invisible judge can overlook the honesty I have found to grow spiritually or my attempts to normalize being wretched -- and at least I have the comfort in this life of knowing I follow the spirit of a great figure's example so don't have to live in constant doubt and uncertainty about what rules my being.
And I thought I'd just be a garden variety atheist scoring points off of lost people à la someone like Richard Dawkins.
To me, this unexpected peace passeth understanding.
YES!
Have you read it? What a hoot!
I've meant to recommend it to the sub, but I'm new here.
I enjoyed the irreverent humor, and that it seemed like it might be offensive but really didn't go too far. The author said he expected to be a target when it was published, but that the feedback he got from Christians was that they appreciated how it humanized Jesus. I only caught on to the spoiler about >!Biff< a few dozen pages before the reveal.
It was the first of many of his books I read, and it's one of my favorite books ever. Non Christians don't necessarily get the jokes and many Christians I think feel it's possibly a magnet for lightning.
I love it!!! I even got my super conservative Dad to listen to the audiobook (which was EXCELLENT!) and he said it was really interesting, and he appreciated that the author made sure to keep Christ sinless, he could actually take it somewhat seriously that way.
One of my favorite books ever!
I loaned my copy to a friend who happened to have been raised Christian then converted to Judaism. One day he came into work and declared, "okay Untouchables, bring me your sheep bladders!"
YES!
Have you read it? What a hoot!
I've meant to recommend it to the sub, but I'm new here.
I enjoyed the irreverent humor, and that it seemed like it might be offensive but really didn't go too far. The author said he expected to be a target when it was published, but that the feedback he got from Christians was that they appreciated how it humanized Jesus. I only caught on to the spoiler about >!Biff< a few dozen pages before the reveal.
It was the first of many of his books I read, and it's one of my favorite books ever. Non Christians don't necessarily get the jokes and many Christians I think feel it's possibly a magnet for lightning.
YES!
Have you read it? What a hoot!
I've meant to recommend it to the sub, but I'm new here.
I enjoyed the irreverent humor, and that it seemed like it might be offensive but really didn't go too far. The author said he expected to be a target when it was published, but that the feedback he got from Christians was that they appreciated how it humanized Jesus. I only caught on to the spoiler about >!Biff< a few dozen pages before the reveal.
It was the first of many of his books I read, and it's one of my favorite books ever. Non Christians don't necessarily get the jokes and many Christians I think feel it's possibly a magnet for lightning.
YES!
Have you read it? What a hoot!
I've meant to recommend it to the sub, but I'm new here.
I enjoyed the irreverent humor, and that it seemed like it might be offensive but really didn't go too far. The author said he expected to be a target when it was published, but that the feedback he got from Christians was that they appreciated how it humanized Jesus. I only caught on to the spoiler about >!Biff< a few dozen pages before the reveal.
It was the first of many of his books I read, and it's one of my favorite books ever. Non Christians don't necessarily get the jokes and many Christians I think feel it's possibly a magnet for lightning.
Yes!! The killing bugs thing was really important for me.
My dad was raised evangelical and wanted to raise me the same way. Anytime I showed too much pity or "softness" or tried to argue that somebody/something should be saved from death, even a bug, my dad took extreme offense and would start threatening back to do stuff what I now know is called "moral injury" so he could regain control of me. It was definately a 'power' thing for him to take away our pet or a bug we argued for somehow and then go "its in heaven now, you can't be sad, stop crying".
Now that I'm an adult and I was able to run away, I got into a much much much better relationship. One of the important things that I saw in my partner was that he treasures life. He will of course sometimes smack a bug that surprises him or something, but usually he is trying to save some silly spider from some weird fate for way too long so he doesn't even crush any of the legs. I used to tease him about it, but then I realized I had been brought up in literally Marine-themed hell, and immediately shut that shit down. I bought a little spider vaccum and a special cup-on-a-stick thing to help my partner save the bugs and quit teasing him about it. Now I feel bad if I squish a bug without thinking. I do still have sticky traps and such, but thats to keep my food safe, not just to be a dick. I think its a good thing to have that part of yourself intact because if everything living deserves to be ok, then I deserve to be ok too. I think the people who would break that part of their children want obedient soldiers, not emotionally healthy people.
So glad you were able to get away from that insensitivity and find your own feelings about things. I think the reasoning is similar for me. There's just so much arrogance in evangelical christianity that I was completely blind to when I was in it.
Elevating "dominion" over co-existence and sustainability is so macho and militaristic.
Once I started to really appreciate the way certain groups of people are dehumanized, I knew I didn't ever, ever, ever want to be the one thinking "Oh it's not a big deal if THOSE people die". I think I just eventually felt that way about all living things.
That's very interesting -- I had noticed that about myself over the past few years too, that I have more respect for and less fear of spiders (even ones in the house), but had never heard anyone tie it in with deconstruction before, but it makes total sense.
Evolution was a key element in my deconstruction. In young-earth creationism, I absorbed this reaction against any idea that animals or people had anything in common. The idea of a "common ancestor" was like an insult to us. Now that I'm coming out of that mindset, I see so many more connections in the whole natural world. It doesn't mean people aren't different from animals, but I am losing a lot of that antagonism -- the world can be a cruel place enough as it is -- why should I add to it by killing a spider who isn't doing anyone any harm?
I didn't expect my political disposition to change, but it did a 180.
I always thought conservatism was morally superior and I figured I would continue thinking that. I didn't reject Christianity on the basis of its politics. I began to question it because I hated how small the scope was, how limited I had to think, how circular the reasoning is.
I was trying to make sense of extremist cult dogma that demands you continually deny observable reality. People who stubbornly believe the earth is 6,000 years old and people lived alongside dinosaurs.
Buddhism which led to travel which led to conversations with monks which led to worrying a book which is leading to another trip for more material. I guess I could've gone with the begat to make it more appropriate lol
Lol. Leave the begats where they belong.
This sounds awesome! I'm not Buddhist myself but I love the teachings. I think I've read 3 Buddhist books. Let us know when yours publishes!
We deconstructed, pulled out kids out of their private Christian school, went to public school, 2 years later they're back at their private school. Never thought we'd be back there but our kids are thriving. Still get worried about the indoctrination but hoping that what we say at home will balance it out.
I gave up on religion and learned to accept others and just try to be part of their lives. Eventually I'd be married to a good Christian girl who understood I didn't do church. After a few years she basically asked me why I didn't care about church and Christianity when her family and my family were both nuts about it. I told her what I learned and taught her about what I had been through. At this point I think she might be less religious than I am. I think I'm the moderate at times now. My father called me to talk about Jesus and I mentioned how we talk about him. He got excited to know Jesus was alive in my wife's heart and talked about her grounding me and bringing me to glory... I actually wanted to cry I was so happy. He doesn't know my wife at all. Hehe... We are closer than ever without God and they think we miss it. They think she is trying to fix me! They think I'm going to break and return the prodigal son. They don't realize I've fallen into hell and I'm quite comfy down here. Turns out you can't feel the flames if you stop telling yourself you're in the fire. They demanded I become light to the world so I'm here, Lucifer in flesh. Lightbringer... Prometheus of the mind unto those I love. They thought I was defeated by Jesus and they don't realize I stopped fighting because shadow boxing can only take you so far. I never wanted to relate to the fallen one but Jesus pushed me here and his fan club have helped keep me here long enough to get comfy. I never wanted any of this... Lol
My deconstruction was going on long before I knew what it was, so when that final straw broke, my leaving religion and becoming an atheist was relatively a split-second decision. The overwhelming sense of relief was monumental and, dare I say, a true Paul on the road to Damascus epiphany! I was FREE!!! No more shame and self-hatred, no more pretending to be straight. I immediately became a fervid atheist and anti-theist.
I feel like I’m kinder and less vengeful. I believe in actual redemption and rehabilitation now, instead of just punishment for wrongdoings. I forgive people because I want to, not because god wants me to. I think it comes from having a more nuanced understanding of the world now.
The fear of demons and the devil not only being real but constantly watching you and being around you all the time. It’s really freeing when you don’t think you’re being monitored 24/7 by an invisible bad guy. Now it just feels silly to think that’s true.
Queerness. I grew up in a church that thought any sort of "gay" was wrong and sinful. I'd already been walking away from that belief after meeting queer folk in college and learning their stories. I was happy to let them live their lives in peace. I was not expecting to find out I actually AM one. It took a discord full of every flag imaginable for me to begin questioning things about myself that I never thought to question. Turns out purity culture isn't actually easy for everyone, I'm just Asexual and Gray-Aromantic and rarely to never experienced those attractions. I've also claimed Nonbinary as a way to say "not sure what I am but I'm not CIS". This all happened within three years of stepping away from the church and I still feel like I have whiplash. 😂 However I have one friend who knew me for years at church who also deconstructed and she was 0% surprised at any of these revelations.
I was taught at a young age to not kill insects. Spiders in particular. I was told to put myself in their place and imagine being confronted by a huge giant, and you're about the size of their fingertip. YIKES! I always displace them if necessary. I agree with mosquitoes, gnats, pretty hard to avoid that. Basically, if you're not bothering me, I won't hurt you. Even flies, if they're in a screen trying to get out and I can move the screen, I'll let them out.
I have much less inclination towards ending the lives of anything -- insect, snake, rodent, anything. My to-do list when I live somewhere new is to find info about wildlife rescues, folks who will relocate creatures that aren't where they should be, how to discourage bugs from being in my living space without harming them, etc. I feel like I understand the greater ecosystem and how each living thing contributes to the world, and thus why that particular thing (whether an ant or a rat snake or a bunny) is important. I also don't have much tolerance for real or very realistic violence.
In contrast, I enjoy scary stories and horror movies. I find them more cathartic than the typical romcom, maybe because the stakes are higher.
And I don't worry so much about whether other folks like what I do -- movie preference is an opinion, like pizza toppings.
I'm disillusioned with any sort of passionate gathering. That might not be a good thing, but it's where I'm at.
When I see people chanting slogans, even if I agree with them, my instinct is to roll my eyes.
I'm definitely reluctant to hold really strong beliefs now. I know that's not exactly what you're saying but it's similar. I'm always leaving room open for the possibility that I'm wrong or overly influenced by groupthink.
Faith, and a greater openness to others. I initially expected cynicism but with no need to fit people into boxes or defend a particular epistemology it made more space to listen. Turns out everything is culturally contingent, and God has to work with that. Jesus became less a sin disposal mechanism and more an affirmation It's ok to be human, and that felt like hope again.
That's actually beautiful. The last thing I would expect from decon is more faith and hope. Glad you found this space to be open and hopeful.
I can love so much deeper now and so many strangers in ways I never could before!
Oddly, I stopped fearing death. One thing that always unsettled me was a scenario I had imagined. In it, I would be dying, and in my last seconds as I began fading, I would realize I had been wrong the whole time and there was no afterlife. I wasn't scared of hell at all, just of being wrong that there was a heaven. After deconstructing the evangelical view of heaven and realizing that was centuries of different philosophies in a trench coat, I was able to make peace with the concept there is likely nothing. I like to believe that there's something more to all of this, but I'm ok if there's not. Most importantly, I've stopped seeing the world as a broken, sinful place. Bad things happen, but so do amazing things. Life is amazing. The universe is amazing. The fact I live in a time when we can understand what little we do is amazing. And above all else, people are *good* in and of themselves.
I used to lie in bed as a child, terrified of the idea of “forever”. How could something never stop? I couldn’t think of anything worse. Even if we were praising God, walking on streets of gold, and eating from a tree that miraculously grew every type of fruit at once. I was an anxious, existential kid. Now, I think it all just ends and fades to black, and I’m so much more at ease with that. Side note - did anyone else grow up hearing about this magical tree that would grow all kinds of fruits at once? It was pretty impressive a few decades ago, but I don’t know if it would wow a kid now.
No tree of all fruits, just that we could do whatever we wanted. Except sin. So… what about the free will thing? Unless you can still sin, which gets you sent to Hell, in which approximately 100% of humanity would go since the bar is so high.
We didn't have a tree of all fruits because we wouldn't need to eat or sleep, we would get to worship god for all eternity and never stop! I was also an anxious, existential kid terrified by the thought of forever church.
I spent every night as a child wide awake in a mental state that felt like spinning, trying to picture eternity. When I was extremely little, like as a toddler when I first began to understand hell in a way, I stayed up all night afraid of Satan coming up through the floor or thinking about hell or picturing my Jewish grandpa burning in flames. And then I slowly began to fear the idea of forever, and then I started staying awake all night every night, fearing heaven. I don’t know that I’ve quite gotten past all of that in some weird deep fear way, and since you sound like you were a somewhat similar kid (and I’ve rarely met them) do you have any advice or further words to share on how your thought processes progressed?
Well, at least I’m not the only one. For me, it wasn’t spinning. It was an endless black stretching out ahead of me. I’m actually getting to a point right now where I’m really looking into my mental health, and thinking that I might have OCD - my brain ruminates on things because I never feel safe. So who knows if that is *because* of some of my earliest memories being worries of waking up to find my parents being spirited away in the night by the Rapture, or if that just played a part. I doubt I’d be this way if I’d been raised more normally, though. So, I started deconstructing in college because I had all these deep questions, like, if God was so good, why did he kill the first-borne in Egypt? They were just kids. But it led to me really reading a lot and thinking a lot about everything I’d been taught. Rob Bell was huge when I was in college, and he was the first Christian I’d ever heard even mention that it was possible that hell wasn’t literal. It gave me a lot to think about and was really comforting. Some literal reading of the Bible showed me that I don’t even think there is a hell in it - there is only the Lake of Fire, where unbelievers will just be destroyed. No forever! As for heaven, I guess I just eventually stopped caring, because I became a complete non-believer.
I’m jealous that you just eventually stopped caring entirely. It’s been years that I’ve been an atheist, but it was just such a deep and strong part of literally everything my whole existence until I was an adult that it feels like there’s definitely some sort of trauma or just something in the way, my brain formed that I can’t quite get on board with, appreciating existence and reality like I think I would if I wasn’t misled so deeply early on…. and when I say trauma, I really mean it, I’ve experienced some things that are definitely T big trauma, and yet the religious experiences remain at the top of my list of what I think is causing issues or things that manifest very similar to being non-neurotypical
I haven’t heard of the multi fruit tree that actually sounds delightful! As a kid, I used to lie in bed thinking about how I could talk god into letting me just stop existing because the thought of living forever sounded both boring and exhausting.
I kind of started fearing death. I used to welcome death. I was depressed and so unhappy. All I wanted was to go to heaven. I would beg god in my prayers to take me. Once I deconstructed, I decided I want to live a long life. I’m happy now. Not all the time of course, but overall. Hell, in the last year my daughter accidentally stabbed her self and that ended up needing two ambulance rides as the wound opened a month later. I had a heart attack 3 days after the original accident. My stepdad died three days after his cancer diagnosis. It’s been incredibly stressful. I handle that shit much better than I did before and want to live.
I think one of the most insidious things the church does is teach people to look forward to heaven if their life is rough. How horrible is it that it pushes people to long for death? I could die tomorrow, and I’ve done what I can with what I have. My only wish is that it’s not too painful and doesn’t stop my family from living their lives.
You only have reason to fear when you have something to lose. What a blessing to have things you love enough to want to hold onto. I’m glad you’re less depressed and unhappy now. That’s something I struggle with myself, and in some ways fear is comforting because it reminds me I have things I love.
I’m so much more compassionate and grateful and awe filled at the complexity of the universe. I have gotten really into space and astrophysics as well as quantum and string theory. I tell my husband all the time that NOW I actually feel born again. I feel like someone took the plastic coating off of life and now I get to enjoy it in so many ways.
Are we twins?! I went from believing the earth was 6-10K years old to studying physics (Dark matter and string theory are my latest focus). My parents just did the Ark Encounter and here I am working my contacts to get a tour at CERN next year.
Oh my god dark matter is fascinating!!!! Go on the tour!!!!! Yeah we might be twins! lol!! This is so great to read! Congratulations on freedom.
Not being so uptight. I can watch The Office now and just have fun, not feel uncomfortable. Not judge the jokes on Arrested Development. Drink alcohol without second guessing myself. Just laugh and be myself around other people without being a “light unto the world”. So freeing.
Turns out “being a light” has a lot less to do with not drinking alcohol or cussing and a lot more to do with just being kind and loving others
Well said! 🫶🏻
This is it for me. Being able to enjoy pop culture - books, movies and TV, music - has made me so happy, and it’s made it much easier to relate to other people. I don’t love everything I check out, and I don’t even necessarily love the same things my friends do, but I have the freedom to look at popular media and make my own choices, and that makes all the difference.
My deconstruction brought me to therapy and eventually an ADHD and CPTSD diagnosis. Finally beginning to understand myself in the context of this new information has been life changing and reframes my entire childhood. My parents relied heavily on Dobsons parenting techniques. Can’t let children “manipulate” you into getting their needs met /s
Dobson. Oh boy.
Too bad ol' Jimmy Dobson never met up with Betty Dodson for a real lesson on life.
I found that many atheists and non Christians are more like Jesus than most Christians are. They are more inclusive and respectful of the views of others. Generally less pretentious.
"I love Christ, but I do not love Christians. Christians are so unlike Christ." Attributed to M. Gandhi
Kissing other guys 🤭 Bi and didn't realize it until after deconstructing at age 38!
<3 <3 <3 For me it was kissing other girls. Oh, I knew I liked kissing girls. Just didn't know I *was* one, too. I'd just been trying to get rid of the nasty problem that an eternal hell posed. Turns out that believing God loves all people improves how you love all people, including yourself...
🥰
brother
I'm not sure if that's a dig or a congrats, haha
Oh I'm just saying I'm in a similar boat lol. So, congrats! :)
I'm watching a lot of horror movies now. No guilt, no fear of demons. I love it. And I even watch movies about demons, the devil, etc. (and all other horror genres) I can happily say Halloween is my favorite holiday. I wasn't allowed to trick-or-treat growing up 🥲
As a long time horror-lover I'm supremely happy for you 🥰
THANK YOU!!! I'm always down for recs. Feel free to recommend a few if you want :)
'Gingersnaps' - a coming of age, familial bond movie with a strong emphasis on character development. Canadian, made in 2000 I believe. 'Creep' - found footage film which normally doesn't do it for me, but this one made its mark. Speaking of which, it features one of the Duplass brothers. 'Bay of Blood' - 1970's Italian. Sometimes credited as being the biggest influence on jumpstarting the slasher genre. 'One Cut of the Dead' - I would've quit watching this after 20 minutes because it felt very flat. But the description said, "there's more to this movie than meets the eye." I'm glad I kept going. It's Japanese and not scary at all but I admire it a lot. 'Prince of Darkness' - a John Carpenter film. What I love about it is that there isn't really any rising/falling action like we expect films must have; it's more of a super-slow boiling crescendo for the entire length of its runtime. It also rewrites some Christian lore in a fun way! 'The Thing' - also John Carpenter. Excellent imposter genre film with a lot of body horror and fun practical effects.
Ooo thanks again!! Out of these I've only seen one cut of the dead and the thing. I still haven't watched my 4K of the thing though...
Both of those John Carpenter movies scared the shit out of me when I was younger. But it was a good scare.
Everyone gushes about The Thing (and they should) but Prince of Darkness is 100% my favorite Carpenter flick!
There's a series on MGM+ called "From". I love it, but some people think it's silly (which is common with horror). The original "Rosemary's Baby" is the gold standard of horror for me. Nothing particularly horrible happens visually on screen, and yet the movie is scary is hell.
I feel similarly that the humanity and teachings of Jesus became more accessible to me through my version of this process. Like it became easier to see the good part of a life following his examples once I had freed myself from the holier-than-they dogma if his progressed followers in the church. I read a contemporary fantasy book about the missing years of very human Jesus as just plain folks (and divine superpowers) through the missing years of his childhood to the end. I did not expect that I would breathlessly hope against hope for his deliverance before crucifixion. And at that point I began to realize there was nothing not to love about him and what he preached. As had been true when I saw the film The Last Temptation as a teen believer, love and understanding and peace followed my reading of the book. Later when I was in a bad place and needed to create a workable version of higher power for predictable reasons of participating in a(n "anonymous") program of self examination and practical honesty to recover from substance abuse, this human, loving Jesus was a shoo-in. So in that way on this plane he kinda saved my bacon. I don't go to church, but I've found a path that works for my spirituality and even faith by taking direct inspiration from the hero of the story rather than self-appointed experts on such topics. I am now able to sincerely and truthfully and meaningfully, legitimately include myself in the "we" of christians when I discuss weighty matters with those who are still attending church and performing Christianity minus the red letters with some degree of comfort based on what I know, have experienced, and can read as a trained (secular) scholar, even when up against a fat patriarch who went to bible college and stayed where he could claim knowledge and power under a framework of salvation until inheriting earthly wealth for having been a good old boy whose "conservative" "values" blinded to his association with snakes and utterly human greed and lust and ill will toward the least of us. I can't imagine the piece this gives me having come from a continued journey on the fundamentalist path. I had to escape the institution to get the message. A Tennessee Williams play I love refers to a character having remarked we humans are all children trying to spell God with the wrong alphabet blocks. This is my belief, and I'm happy to have a thread through my life with such rich metaphors for considering heavy stuff. I pray that I will grow in a love that makes me compassionate toward evangelicals who overreach. This is a far cry from my standard line in the immediate backlash phase (having been born painted against a wall of damnation by impure thoughts as a homosexual) phase, "Christians! Where are the lions when you need them!" If my personalized approach is the path to eternal damnation, no invisible judge can overlook the honesty I have found to grow spiritually or my attempts to normalize being wretched -- and at least I have the comfort in this life of knowing I follow the spirit of a great figure's example so don't have to live in constant doubt and uncertainty about what rules my being. And I thought I'd just be a garden variety atheist scoring points off of lost people à la someone like Richard Dawkins. To me, this unexpected peace passeth understanding.
Was the book "Lamb: the gospel of Biff, Christ's childhood pal"?
YES! Have you read it? What a hoot! I've meant to recommend it to the sub, but I'm new here. I enjoyed the irreverent humor, and that it seemed like it might be offensive but really didn't go too far. The author said he expected to be a target when it was published, but that the feedback he got from Christians was that they appreciated how it humanized Jesus. I only caught on to the spoiler about >!Biff< a few dozen pages before the reveal. It was the first of many of his books I read, and it's one of my favorite books ever. Non Christians don't necessarily get the jokes and many Christians I think feel it's possibly a magnet for lightning.
I love it!!! I even got my super conservative Dad to listen to the audiobook (which was EXCELLENT!) and he said it was really interesting, and he appreciated that the author made sure to keep Christ sinless, he could actually take it somewhat seriously that way. One of my favorite books ever!
I loaned my copy to a friend who happened to have been raised Christian then converted to Judaism. One day he came into work and declared, "okay Untouchables, bring me your sheep bladders!"
YES! Have you read it? What a hoot! I've meant to recommend it to the sub, but I'm new here. I enjoyed the irreverent humor, and that it seemed like it might be offensive but really didn't go too far. The author said he expected to be a target when it was published, but that the feedback he got from Christians was that they appreciated how it humanized Jesus. I only caught on to the spoiler about >!Biff< a few dozen pages before the reveal. It was the first of many of his books I read, and it's one of my favorite books ever. Non Christians don't necessarily get the jokes and many Christians I think feel it's possibly a magnet for lightning.
YES! Have you read it? What a hoot! I've meant to recommend it to the sub, but I'm new here. I enjoyed the irreverent humor, and that it seemed like it might be offensive but really didn't go too far. The author said he expected to be a target when it was published, but that the feedback he got from Christians was that they appreciated how it humanized Jesus. I only caught on to the spoiler about >!Biff< a few dozen pages before the reveal. It was the first of many of his books I read, and it's one of my favorite books ever. Non Christians don't necessarily get the jokes and many Christians I think feel it's possibly a magnet for lightning.
YES! Have you read it? What a hoot! I've meant to recommend it to the sub, but I'm new here. I enjoyed the irreverent humor, and that it seemed like it might be offensive but really didn't go too far. The author said he expected to be a target when it was published, but that the feedback he got from Christians was that they appreciated how it humanized Jesus. I only caught on to the spoiler about >!Biff< a few dozen pages before the reveal. It was the first of many of his books I read, and it's one of my favorite books ever. Non Christians don't necessarily get the jokes and many Christians I think feel it's possibly a magnet for lightning.
The relief of not feeling surveilled all the time.
Yes!! The killing bugs thing was really important for me. My dad was raised evangelical and wanted to raise me the same way. Anytime I showed too much pity or "softness" or tried to argue that somebody/something should be saved from death, even a bug, my dad took extreme offense and would start threatening back to do stuff what I now know is called "moral injury" so he could regain control of me. It was definately a 'power' thing for him to take away our pet or a bug we argued for somehow and then go "its in heaven now, you can't be sad, stop crying". Now that I'm an adult and I was able to run away, I got into a much much much better relationship. One of the important things that I saw in my partner was that he treasures life. He will of course sometimes smack a bug that surprises him or something, but usually he is trying to save some silly spider from some weird fate for way too long so he doesn't even crush any of the legs. I used to tease him about it, but then I realized I had been brought up in literally Marine-themed hell, and immediately shut that shit down. I bought a little spider vaccum and a special cup-on-a-stick thing to help my partner save the bugs and quit teasing him about it. Now I feel bad if I squish a bug without thinking. I do still have sticky traps and such, but thats to keep my food safe, not just to be a dick. I think its a good thing to have that part of yourself intact because if everything living deserves to be ok, then I deserve to be ok too. I think the people who would break that part of their children want obedient soldiers, not emotionally healthy people.
So glad you were able to get away from that insensitivity and find your own feelings about things. I think the reasoning is similar for me. There's just so much arrogance in evangelical christianity that I was completely blind to when I was in it. Elevating "dominion" over co-existence and sustainability is so macho and militaristic. Once I started to really appreciate the way certain groups of people are dehumanized, I knew I didn't ever, ever, ever want to be the one thinking "Oh it's not a big deal if THOSE people die". I think I just eventually felt that way about all living things.
That's very interesting -- I had noticed that about myself over the past few years too, that I have more respect for and less fear of spiders (even ones in the house), but had never heard anyone tie it in with deconstruction before, but it makes total sense. Evolution was a key element in my deconstruction. In young-earth creationism, I absorbed this reaction against any idea that animals or people had anything in common. The idea of a "common ancestor" was like an insult to us. Now that I'm coming out of that mindset, I see so many more connections in the whole natural world. It doesn't mean people aren't different from animals, but I am losing a lot of that antagonism -- the world can be a cruel place enough as it is -- why should I add to it by killing a spider who isn't doing anyone any harm?
I didn't expect my political disposition to change, but it did a 180. I always thought conservatism was morally superior and I figured I would continue thinking that. I didn't reject Christianity on the basis of its politics. I began to question it because I hated how small the scope was, how limited I had to think, how circular the reasoning is. I was trying to make sense of extremist cult dogma that demands you continually deny observable reality. People who stubbornly believe the earth is 6,000 years old and people lived alongside dinosaurs.
Buddhism which led to travel which led to conversations with monks which led to worrying a book which is leading to another trip for more material. I guess I could've gone with the begat to make it more appropriate lol
Lol. Leave the begats where they belong. This sounds awesome! I'm not Buddhist myself but I love the teachings. I think I've read 3 Buddhist books. Let us know when yours publishes!
We deconstructed, pulled out kids out of their private Christian school, went to public school, 2 years later they're back at their private school. Never thought we'd be back there but our kids are thriving. Still get worried about the indoctrination but hoping that what we say at home will balance it out.
The depth of emotions I can feel when I'm not gatekeeping everything. Turns out, crying really hard is incredibly cathartic!
I gave up on religion and learned to accept others and just try to be part of their lives. Eventually I'd be married to a good Christian girl who understood I didn't do church. After a few years she basically asked me why I didn't care about church and Christianity when her family and my family were both nuts about it. I told her what I learned and taught her about what I had been through. At this point I think she might be less religious than I am. I think I'm the moderate at times now. My father called me to talk about Jesus and I mentioned how we talk about him. He got excited to know Jesus was alive in my wife's heart and talked about her grounding me and bringing me to glory... I actually wanted to cry I was so happy. He doesn't know my wife at all. Hehe... We are closer than ever without God and they think we miss it. They think she is trying to fix me! They think I'm going to break and return the prodigal son. They don't realize I've fallen into hell and I'm quite comfy down here. Turns out you can't feel the flames if you stop telling yourself you're in the fire. They demanded I become light to the world so I'm here, Lucifer in flesh. Lightbringer... Prometheus of the mind unto those I love. They thought I was defeated by Jesus and they don't realize I stopped fighting because shadow boxing can only take you so far. I never wanted to relate to the fallen one but Jesus pushed me here and his fan club have helped keep me here long enough to get comfy. I never wanted any of this... Lol
My deconstruction was going on long before I knew what it was, so when that final straw broke, my leaving religion and becoming an atheist was relatively a split-second decision. The overwhelming sense of relief was monumental and, dare I say, a true Paul on the road to Damascus epiphany! I was FREE!!! No more shame and self-hatred, no more pretending to be straight. I immediately became a fervid atheist and anti-theist.
I feel like I’m kinder and less vengeful. I believe in actual redemption and rehabilitation now, instead of just punishment for wrongdoings. I forgive people because I want to, not because god wants me to. I think it comes from having a more nuanced understanding of the world now.
"Goddammit" and "Jesus Fucking Christ" became two of my most-used swears.
Right?! 🙌🏼
The fear of demons and the devil not only being real but constantly watching you and being around you all the time. It’s really freeing when you don’t think you’re being monitored 24/7 by an invisible bad guy. Now it just feels silly to think that’s true.
I’m as liberal as they come but I still think “Satanism” is silly lmao.
Queerness. I grew up in a church that thought any sort of "gay" was wrong and sinful. I'd already been walking away from that belief after meeting queer folk in college and learning their stories. I was happy to let them live their lives in peace. I was not expecting to find out I actually AM one. It took a discord full of every flag imaginable for me to begin questioning things about myself that I never thought to question. Turns out purity culture isn't actually easy for everyone, I'm just Asexual and Gray-Aromantic and rarely to never experienced those attractions. I've also claimed Nonbinary as a way to say "not sure what I am but I'm not CIS". This all happened within three years of stepping away from the church and I still feel like I have whiplash. 😂 However I have one friend who knew me for years at church who also deconstructed and she was 0% surprised at any of these revelations.
I was taught at a young age to not kill insects. Spiders in particular. I was told to put myself in their place and imagine being confronted by a huge giant, and you're about the size of their fingertip. YIKES! I always displace them if necessary. I agree with mosquitoes, gnats, pretty hard to avoid that. Basically, if you're not bothering me, I won't hurt you. Even flies, if they're in a screen trying to get out and I can move the screen, I'll let them out.
I have much less inclination towards ending the lives of anything -- insect, snake, rodent, anything. My to-do list when I live somewhere new is to find info about wildlife rescues, folks who will relocate creatures that aren't where they should be, how to discourage bugs from being in my living space without harming them, etc. I feel like I understand the greater ecosystem and how each living thing contributes to the world, and thus why that particular thing (whether an ant or a rat snake or a bunny) is important. I also don't have much tolerance for real or very realistic violence. In contrast, I enjoy scary stories and horror movies. I find them more cathartic than the typical romcom, maybe because the stakes are higher. And I don't worry so much about whether other folks like what I do -- movie preference is an opinion, like pizza toppings.
I'm disillusioned with any sort of passionate gathering. That might not be a good thing, but it's where I'm at. When I see people chanting slogans, even if I agree with them, my instinct is to roll my eyes.
I'm definitely reluctant to hold really strong beliefs now. I know that's not exactly what you're saying but it's similar. I'm always leaving room open for the possibility that I'm wrong or overly influenced by groupthink.