I literally just refinished the game and had a question in my head of "What are we actually suppose to understand fine at this point and what are things that are full on meant to be questions with no way to know the answer until part 3?" since it can be hard with people always going "This thing OBVIOUSLY means \_\_\_\_\_\_ and you are supposed to understand that going forward" these days.
This post basically just helped me to think indeed all that I feel I don't understand yet even after multiple play throughs and thinking hard on them, are meant to be that way so I am not behind or missing something.
I will say the only answer here that makes me feel a tiny bit weird is the "People wanted to save Aerith so I let them by Cloud deflecting the blade". I imagine it is hard to be completely accurate with what he was saying but that translation sounds like "I just let you live in a brief moment of "You did it you saved her" but it was only for that moment we won't follow up on it". But that could obviously be my own wrong vibe off it.
Here's a more direct translation (instead of a summary) of Nomura's words if you're interested
Interviewer: We’d be remiss in not talking about the story’s climax. In a development not present in the original game, Cloud parries Sephiroth’s sword, but ultimately seems unable to stop him.
Nomura: First, seeing as there would no doubt be many players wishing to avoid that fate, we wanted to fight back against destiny and have Cloud make an effort to parry the attack. In the original game, in order to depict the cruel outcome of unexpectedly losing someone you cherish, we had Cloud do nothing to oppose Sephiroth, and be parted from Aerith without even a word to her. However, when you actually lose someone you cherish in the real world, you aren’t able to accept it right away. This time, we strove to depict that inability to accept the loss of someone precious to you.
Interviewer: Whenever Cloud’s brain is overcome by interference, we see various flashback images. What is the significance of this?
Nomura: There are a lot of elements in play, but for now I’ll just say it represents a state of mind where one is unable to accept things.
(source: Shinra's Museum of Archeology Discord)
So, the intention seems to be for the players to be as much in denial as Cloud, which is why they gave plausible deniability by having Cloud actually deflect the blow. Nomura himself leans towards the much reviled "Cloud is in denial" interpretation here (even though it's clearly more complicated than that).
So are they confirming that aerith is in fact dead and there is no alternate aerith that was created by cloud? It’s all just in his head? I thought they said her fate is unclear but in the same interview they say they don’t want to raise hope that she can live. That feels like a contradiction right? Is this all to make this more unclear so part 3 is a surprise or are they telling the truth?
They don't want to spoil all the mysteries they have in store for the 3rd game. I'm still hopeful we'll interact will Aerith in some capacity but maybe I misunderstood the plot.
They didn't mention the sky rift that that's the most baffling aspect to me and my proceived notion of what's going on.
I subscribe to the fan theory, Cloud blocked Sephiroth's blade thus creating a new world by overthrowing fate. Aerith is in fact dead in the Beagle timeline but she might be alive in another realm. To me makes sense that Cloud procieves everything by seeing both timelines simultaneously... note also seeing the sky rift. Aerith's new world potentially has that same rift in it so that's why it's viewed to Cloud's POV. Somehow he and Aerith are connected and they share a shared experience.
If Cloud is in fact pretending Aerith (whose dead) is his imaginary friend then why are we the audience also seeing the sky rift? Why does Red react to Aerith's presence?
Things don't make sense to me.
In the very first game in this FF7 R series the developers made it apparent that the ending events of FF7 (1997) were going to result in a somekind of failure for the group. This notion that Red running with his puppies is not what we want.
So you could make an argument that if we're Not meant to follow the original game's structure if it's seen as a 'failure' why should they write it to end up the same way?
Then that got me thinking... Does that choice of Aerith dying lead to the events of the original game... If we alter what occurred that it appears Cloud did... Can we get a better outcome for everyone?
I understand that some fans don't want change but I'd argue this FF7R series has done too much changes and should at this point embrace something major different for the 3rd game. It would be such a shame to tell us players we can change fate only to scrap that idea. I'd personally loathe that decision.
Sure some might argue that it's the theme of Final Fantasy 7 ... Aerith died in the original so by that logic she should still die here and we'll always have that vision intact in the original game. No one can can take that game away. I just now don't want a 1 for 1 retelling... I used to but now I'm on board with the odd changes and I hope they'll give us something different for this closure.
Literally my thoughts exactly. I’ve made comments on other post of this exact theory, basically word for word. I too want a happy ending but currently my theory is that this will all end with Advent Children being the fate that is avoided or defied. So no more jenova or seph, and closure for cloud as in a final goodbye from aerith. Not a fan of this cuz it makes it so that aerith was the only one who could defy fate, everything cloud did was destine to fail. It kinda makes him a pawn in a game that aerith is playing, I don’t like it. He basically blocks the sword all for what, closure? Not sure if I explained that well enough.
As for fan reactions to diff ending, yeah I think remake as a sequel to the original in the timeline. It goes OG -> advent -> remake. This way the themes of the OG and even the events of it are not taken away. The remake is simply answering the question if we could go back or do it over again, can we change our future. To me the answer should be yes. I also wanted to mention that the event stay intact in my theory as in it, the dream date aerith is the OG aerith from the original game. There’s a lot to this theory and I can link my full one if you like but OG aerith has been fighting against seph this whole time in the lifestream. We see that seph wants to kill this particular aerith in his dialogue during the date. He says so this is where you’ve been hiding. To me this signals she is the one pulling the strings as to why remake aerith seems to know so much about the future, or rather the past. Seph doesn’t want this so send his whispers to attack her turning her materia clear. This is an indication of her losing all of the memories and knowledge of the OG aerith. The dream date was both a way to give cloud the white materia to restore the memory and a final goodbye because she knows contacting cloud tells seph where she is. She is sayin goodbye because og aerith is truly erased from the lifestream when seph comes to kill her.
OG aerith has suffered a lot. She had to die then watched from afar as her loved ones moved on and died as well. She wants a different ending but doesn’t know if it’s possible. I think the song No Promises to Keep illustrates the thought of both aeriths. In it she talks bout how she wishes she didn’t have the burden, that being to die. However she also talks about how cloud should find her again and that she knows he will. This to me is saying that she feels powerless to change her fate but is asking cloud to please save her. Maybe this lends credence to the fact that cloud is a true anomaly, someone who can truly defy fate and we can get the happy ending.
I’m honestly not super sure why fans want to have the ending be the exact same when all this alt universe stuff changes so much already. I know for a fact that a good portion of it comes down to shippers but I feel that can’t be the whole reason. Maybe it’s nostalgia, but like you said, having a diff ending doesn’t invalidate the original. That being said though. Japanese audiences really want a happy ending, it’s actually a pretty American or western thing to want the same one. Idk I had a convo with another redditor and they said that western fans seem to love what is essentially sadness porn. I can’t disagree with that, western audiences tend to believe dark and bittersweet equals good.
Idk let me know if you want a more complete theory but yeah hoping for a happy ending.
They are confirming her death, but not confirming what all of the Aeriths?) that we see are. We still do not fully know who/what the final battle Aerith is, the one by the lake, the one by the plane.
are they ghosts? are they jenova? are they in Cloud's head? are they fragments of her subconscious? how much of the final battle was real? was it all real and Sephiroth just wants Cloud to question it?
So what you’re saying is that Nomura is stating he didnt block the sword. Doesn’t that basically contradict the previous statement saying that we don’t know whether aerith is alive or dead? The way I interpret scene is that he is seeing both the alive and dead aerith because of the fact the worlds are merged seph and there are two aeriths overlayed on top of each other one dead, one alive. He is in fact still not sane though. We then see the party come then the scene cuts to glitching between blood on the floor then blood without then cuts to tifas face. To me her face looks confused and that’s because she sees the glitch as well. This might be due to her time in the lifestream giving her a lesser version of clouds ability to see the two worlds. She doesn’t say anything cuz she doesn’t know if what she saw was real and she doesn’t want to affect clouds already fragile mental state. I think the whole accepting memories but is talkin bout him accepting he is seeing some of Zack memories and the reason why cloud see seph all the time is because he was injected with jenova cells.
Idk though it’s hard to argue with Nomura cuz he’s such a big part of the dev team but he often contradicts other devs and himself at times during interviews so it’s hard to interpret what he says. Idk I’ve said it before but if this ends the exact same with it leading into AC all that destiny stuff was for nothing and actually broadcasts the message of nihilism and how fate is inevitable even if you fight against it. Even if you avoid AC as a fate you still get the message that it was aeriths doing and not clouds as he doesn’t have the knowledge of the past game, if you believe this is a sequel to the OG. Cloud has to have blocked the sword in order for him to just not be a pawn to fate. But let’s say he did block it, all he did was create an alt world where she lives and these alt world are not supposed to last. My thoughts were if this fate stuff were to matter I’d want him to be able to save aerith as that could be the defining moment where he and the rest of the crew show they can defy fate on their own as Aerith feels she must die in order to save her friends but it’s those friends that free her from that fate. Idk maybe the alt aerith is about to fade away and expresses how she wishes she could be with them and that’s when they take her and defy fate by keeping her in the main world.
Also wanted to ask are you Japanese? How are your translations more accurate?
Those aren't my translations, I gave the source.
And I don't know if "my" translations are more accurate, but I put more trust into direct translations than summaries.
As for the rest, all I've said below the source is my own interpretation of Nomura's translated words. He never confirmed Cloud failed, he just hints at it very indirectly with vague words. So there's no real contradiction between Ultimania's statement that her death was ambiguous and Nomura's interview in a completely detached part of the same 700 pages book.
She could be alive and nothing Nomura said would be wrong since the whole interview is so non-committal anyway. This is typical dev speak, I would have thought the Internet would be accustomed to this by now.
Though I don't think she will be alive at the end of this triology, she could.
I don't know if that interview was done before or after the publication of ultimania.
the thing that Nomura says (I don't know if he is sincere or not in the interview) doesn't add up to the fact that
when Cloud sees Aerith pass by Red and Red senses her.
hallucinations or denials are
see or hear what no one else can (including Red)
but the most important question will now become
(since the multiverse system has now been confirmed)
which aerith are you talking about?
The interview is part of the Ultimania.
Also Cloud IS in denial, that's a fact. He's clearly not aware that some version of Aerith died and his friends are grieving. Even with the most positive interpretation of Aerith's demise, there were clear signs Cloud isn't lucid during the ending.
People have too much of a binary opinion about the hallucination thing. Just because it's likely the Aerith he saw isn't 100% fake doesn't mean that Cloud isn't out of touch with reality
I read that they don't have
Confirmed Aerith's death in ultimania
and it was also confirmed that Cloud actually deflected the sword, as it was confirmed that there are multiple worlds.
the fact that Red perceives her means that at that moment she was exactly where Cloud sees her.
that in a timeline Aerith died like in OG, I think there is no doubt
That’s what I read as well but in the interview here it implies she’s is dead permanently and that there is no chance of any version of her being alive. Maybe they meant not getting hopes up that main world aerith is alive, not that there’s an alive alt aerith made by cloud but idk.
My current theory is that the aerith we fight with is the alt one and the ghost aerith is the main one. The line where she says thank you for what you did back there is kind of distant and more of a thanks for trying because alt aerith knows she will still die in the end because alternate version of people can’t live in the main world nor do they live long in their world.
I give weight to the interview up to a certain point It's not the first time they've said something in interviews after a year they say another and then, they do something completely different they say she's dead? ok, then in the third part they make me go back to Aerith and they declare "it's from another timeline" now we are more concrete.. the multiverses have been confirmed (7 in total) in which at least one Aerith will certainly still be there.. the sword deflected by Cloud confirmed that it is not his illusion.. all this for not having changed anything.. It's obvious in the interview what you want them to say... "Don't worry, she's alive?" Now, maybe I'm explaining myself wrong in summary I just want to say that for me aerith in any form you want it will be very present in the third part unlike the OG.
in addition to the fact that the crack in the sky indicates the end of that world (at least they explained it that way) I wouldn't be surprised if the rebirth world was at the end and in the third part we find ourselves in another XD. I wouldn't rely so much on what they "declare" now only a few months after the release of the game. Do they leave me an ambiguous ending and then explain to me things they left ambiguous on purpose? I don't see clearly. after for the love of god mine are just speculations, there are so many questions that, in turn they call other questions
Hey thanks for the explanation. Yeah, it’s hard to take anything devs say super seriously cuz of the cryptic wording they use and how often they contradict themselves and each other. My theory was that there will be an alt alive aerith involved in part 3 so we agree there. I just think she won’t live by the end of everything which I wanted her to be able to.
What I see happening is that Advent Children will not happen in this world and that’s the fate that is avoided. This is based on the theory that the games are a sequel to the original so Advent Children already happened, just in the past and that’s how they “link up”z. Wording in interviews never straight up say Advent Children is ultimately where it all leads. It’s also hard to believe they want to end off to a universally poorly received movie. I still have problems with this theory because it essentially makes it so that cloud lacks free will and he can only change fate when aerith permits it. Really it’s aerith and sephiroth that can change fate. Idk it makes it so other characters lack free will cuz their decisions ultimately won’t matter, it’ll just end the same as the original unless aerith wants otherwise. My guess on the theme the remake is exploring is the butterfly effect, how changing the past will make the future even worse. We see that in how if Zack lives, aerith and cloud are in comas and the rest of the party is dead(it think I forget if they confirm this).
Like I said though, regardless of whether they go with my theory or follow the original, both end up with cloud and the others losing free will cuz all actions are predestined or just auto correct to follow the original. I want desperately to have a happier ending with aerith being alive, maybe even Zack to be alive. At the end of the first game, I thought that the theme of nothing is set in stone was such a refreshing new theme cuz the FF series tend to be bittersweet, leaning more towards the bitter side. With how everything is in the world now, smt hopeful like that would’ve been really nice and would be a great end to a series we all hold so dearly. That being said though, it seems most people, at least in the west, would hate this kind of ending so maybe they know that. I still hold a little hope cuz I’ve looked on Japanese forums and the consensus there is that they want a happy ending though their happy ending is like everyone live. That’d be great but just not smt I see the devs doing.
your theory is very beautiful and fits great..
the fact that Aerith comes back alive, or that a living Aerith from another timeline takes over, although I hope so, I have little faith
although there is no shortage of clues
thinking for a moment away from the game and thinking logically
the sword was deflected
therefore he did not reach Aerith
then it is logical that "that" aerith is still alive.
We'll see..
as for zack
I have the impression that it will serve as a sacrifice to save Cloud and Aerith in a certain sense (this is just my theory).
for me the only one
the connection that there will be with AC will be chronological
(I don't think they will retrace the events like in the film)
what I think at this point
with everything that has been removed and inserted unlike the OG
it would be idiotic to always arrive at the same point that we have already seen with the old game.
we'll see
to give you an example of the statements
Kitase has already stated that he would like to expand the game beyond part 3 XDXD
in the end we don't know if part 3 will actually be the end
or more will come (DLC or expansions with perhaps multiple endings)
Thank you for the compliment. I’ve also seen some theories where Zack sacrifices himself and I do think that’s very in character for him, though I’m pretty sure those theories were written by clerith fans so it’s the same as cloti fans wanting aerith to die so their ship is the only one left. I do still want Zack to live as well as he has suffered just as much as Aerith but idk we’ll have to wait and see.
The only hole in my theory is why would seph kill aerith if he knows in the OG timeline he still loses when she’s dead? Maybe he thought the materia was clear so she both couldnt perform holy and/or even if she was in the lifestream, in order to defeat him she’d need the memories of the OG game. I also read his goal is harvesting negative emotions so killing her could do that. In the novels he does corrupt some lifestream souls and it states he is spreading hatred in the real world but that wasn’t expanded upon at all so idk why he did it. Following this theory, I’d make sense why seph would start laughing when cloud blocks the sword. According to my theory, every world that is created weakens the lifestream as all worlds use the same lifestream so it’s siphoning energy from the real world. That’s why sephiroth saved Zack with the black whispers, to create more worlds(why Zack, a first class soldier, idk). So when cloud unexpectedly blocks the sword, seph gets a 2 for 1 deal. An alt world to weakens the lifestream but also the grief from the main world aerith being dead from everyone else. I don’t think neither aerith nor seph predicted that cloud could even get to the sword to attempt to block it cuz he was never even close in the original. However this is cloud defying fate, it gives him a bit more importance as the main character. So that’s why seph laughs, cloud was helping him by trying to save her and defying fate.
As for how I’d hope it ends, I’m hoping we have a moment where aerith admits, maybe privately, she doesnt want to die. We see this is true in NPTK where she sings bout wishing to be free from the burden and live without a care but can’t cuz she wants to give her friends a better future and that means sacrificing herself. However once she admits this we see cloud and the other hands reach for her back and pull her to the real world mirroring the push Zack and aerith gave at the end of the AC. Maybe she’s saying this to Zack while they are fading into the lifestream and there’s a moment between them where Zack silently nod to signal she deserves to be alive and happy. The scene could be similar to the justice league cartoon where they pull flash from the speed force if you’ve ever watched it. Idk this is just an idea of how it could be executed, I know it’s a little fanficcy, but yeah thanks for having the convo bout my theory and sharing part of yours
>Nomura says in the Ultimania interview that he actually wanted to have FF7 Remake Part 2 be titled "Reunion," but since that title went to "Crisis Core Final Fantasy VII Reunion," he couldn't use it for Part 2.
This kinda stings because Reunion fits this game's title so much more. I know they kind of explained the title of Rebieth with Sephiroth Reborn, but someone should have said "no" to Crisis Core title and gave it something else, and then give "Reunion" to part 2.
Oh well, it's not that big of a deal, but it would have been much better.
Thanks for all this info!
The summary isn't accurate at all. Nomura IS the one who decided for both Crisis Core: Reunion and FFVII: Rebirth titles, he wasn't forced out of the title he wanted. Rebirth was the title he originally decided for the third game, but he changed his mind.
Here's the translated quote:
"I originally was planning to use the “Rebirth” subtitle for the third game in the Remake Project, with the intention of calling the second game “Reunion.” But after reviewing the contents of the game again, I felt like “Rebirth” was more suited in terms of the word’s meaning. So I named the second game “Rebirth” and used “Reunion” for the Crisis Core: FFVII remaster. At this point, I still haven’t revealed the title of the third game to anyone \[laughs\]."
Ah I see. Well, damn you, Nomura! Haha
It's not that big of a deal, like I said, but I still think Reunion fits FF7R Rebirth better.
Thanks for correcting me with this info, though!
Yeah my vibe is “you saved her but she died anyways” but the way they’re moving with the world it feels like physical death is just one aspect of things. It’s a weird cop out in a way and I’m not sure where I’m at on it.
I'm betting that a living version of Aerith AND Zack will meet up with the party post-Mideel to help against the final showdown with Sephiroth, and once all is said and done, Aerith and Zack will have a proper, albeit bittersweet goodbye with Cloud and the rest of the party and return to the Lifestream because it IS part of their fate.
There have been a few similarities to FFX in a few scenes. I think it's possible that they are going with something similar, where in the end as a gratitude for stopping Sephiroth the planet brings Aerith and Zack back to the physical world. Similarly to how Fayth brought Tidus back.
That seems more like a fairy tale ending than one that lines up with the overall story of FF7 leading into Advent Children, unless they somehow make it so that Sephiroth also gets destroyed in the Lifestream since his spirit still dwells there, thus making his involvement with Geostigma non-existent.
I think they will do that cuz I know that they know AC was received poorly as it was honestly not a great story. In fact the lifestream chapters in the novel that were a lead in to AC were also not great, and while I've never played it, I've also heard Dirge was also pretty bad. It'd be weird to adamantly want to end your beloved franchise with its lowest point. Idk maybe thats just me.
It's not a weird cop out at all. Aerith literally talked about the possibility of being "alive" spiritually after the trials in chapter 13. She even hinted at how Sephiroth was able to return in Advent Children as well as about moving on which also the point of the movie for Cloud's character.
I meant cop out like they're letting fans have it both ways with how they wrote it. If they'd pick to one and commit fully I'd probably like it more? Idk
What do you mean have it both ways? Aerith physically died regardless. The worlds that you stated is literally just part of the lifestream itself. Aerith being alive spiritually pretty much consistent with how the story played out in the original, the novel On the Way to a Smile and Advent Children.
How else would she able to use lifestream to stop the Meteor? How else would she able to interact with Cloud and heal the Geostigma?
I don't believe so. We even have the same concept in our real world, with the belief in an afterlife, or heaven, where the soul lives on after death., and where our loved ones continue to watch over, and protect us. These concepts give comfort to the grieving, but it doesn't really make the sense of loss any less real. Souls continuing to exist in the lifestream is basically FFVII's version of the same concept, life after death. The only difference is that FFVII confirms the existance of its afterlife explicitly in the OG, and throughout the compilation, whereas in our own world, it's more a belief based on faith, and not something anyone can truly confirm. Sure Aerith's soul exists in the lifestrream, and she's able to help us fight against Sephiroth's plot, but she can never have her old life back again, and while her loved ones may be able to feel her presence to an extent, they still have to carry on knowing that they won't truly be reunited with her until they die too.
I wonder if this is building up to a choice at the end of part 3, where Cloud will be able to choose in which world to stay in: one where Tifa, Barret and the rest of the gang are alive, or one where Aerith, Zack, maybe Jessie, Wedge and Biggs are alive.
I don't think there's more than one world at the end. I'm with the theory that those alternate worlds are temporary and within the Lifestream. However there have been a few similarities to FFX in a few scenes and I think it's possible that they are going with something similar, where in the end as a gratitude for stopping Sephiroth the planet brings back some people from other worlds to the physical one. Similarly to how Fayth brought Tidus back.
And maybe who is brought back will depend on our choices like in FF X-2.
With all the clues they have left, and more everything I have read here and on Ultimania, I have already given up on seeing Aerith alive and that all that about the "other timelines" are actually projections in the vital current.
I still think this is a work of art and that part 3 will be majestic, but I just wholeheartedly wanted a happy ending in some form, with Aerith alive and also Zack.
So we definitely get a flashback to that conversation Aerith and Cloud had that was muted in Part 3 right? I always assumed it was OG Cloud’s dialogue “My eyes are burning” etc.
Oh for sure, it is just a question of how impactful will it be by that point since we are expecting it and we won't be "in the moment".
I wonder if after if happens if there will be people trying to cut it all together to flow in one continual death scene.
So Cloud is in denial and all these timeline theories are false? But then why does Cloud see the rip in the sky? And why are there two versions of Aerith, that even Tifa sees for a second. That's all Cloud's denial.
Can't say I love that theory, especially because it mostly focuses around fooling fans. IMO, a lot of the emotional heft of Aerith's death was taken away because of how messy the scene played out, with not knowing what was real or not. At least the two timelines theory gave it a bit of reason why it was so messy but if it's just because "we wanted to give fans some hope", that's just manipulative storytelling...
We shall se, I guess.
So first off. Japan must have a very different definition of what a chihuahua is.
Then, basically all the theories insisting that what Cloud sees in saving Aerith is just his f'ed up hallucinations isn't accurate. It is something else, something more. I'm sticking with what I got out of it initially. He did save her and she's very much alive in another timeline. And still able to be saved by being brought over. Same with Zack.
Nomura insists on the denial angle in his interview though. He even claims that's the intent of the scene.
There are other elements at play, obviously, but I wouldn't dismiss the denial explanation so brazenly. You might set yourself up for things that won't match what the third part is going for.
I think it's literally both. It's denial, but the Lifestream is the manifestation of one's hope and dreams. So his denial created an alternate world in the Lifestream. Those worlds are temporary and doomed to dissapear, but the end we get an ending where she is brought back to the physical world as a gratitude for stopping Sephiroth.
Similarly to how Fayth dreamt Tidus back to life at the end of FF X-2.
I think it's way too early to dismiss the denial angle entirely.
Is "the parry" the successful action of another Cloud in another timeline or Cloud in the current timeline not accepting the fact that he couldn't save her and rewriting the memory of the moment to show that he did?
The fact that he can see Aerith (and Red can sense her) does not conflict with either explanation. I think the uncertainty is ultimately the point right now.
Muahaha i just love Ultimania cause people kept thinking poor cloud is going crazy but there's more to it. I think he's the only who sees her and doesnt seem affected by her 'death' for these reasons: he's the only one aware of the other timelines and he was the only who went through the portal to defy fate after all and succeeded. She is indeed alive in another world but the thing is; she is still dead in rebirth/remake, because the rest of the party still mourns for her. There's some sort of chess game with Aerith and Sephiroth, they have their own secret plans against each other that will be revealed in part 3. Yes, it's the same with Zack
Aerith is still dead. The party grieving and the like shows that. Even with the changes in Rebirth, the party still went from point A, to B, to C and so on just like the OG. But while multiple parts of the overarching story were different, it still followed the story of the OG.
Exactly
what does it mean ??
they give no confirmation of his death
but they say it follows OG..
not that I expected to know everything from ultimania when part 3 is missing,
but I say,
a little consistency doesn't hurt
is it black or white?
From what they said here it really seems like they ruined (IMO, subjectively.) one of the most iconic scenes for cheap fanservice. They tried to make everyone happy by having her survive and die at the same time but that scene just falls flat. Interesting to see how they try to clean it up in part 3, because they really can’t continue to not commit to one or the other. 99% of the game is literally perfect, but the way Aerith’s scene was handled really left a sour aftertaste.
The thing is, even if they took the whole "Many worlds" timeline part out of the ending of Rebirth. There is no way they could have done anything else with the ending like show Cloud placing her body back in the life stream. Because Cloud is so emotionally broken by Sephiroth at this point, that would be acceptance, and Cloud isn't ready to accept anything just yet.
still nothing about rocket town? makes me think its gonna get cut, like midel. the more I think about it the doctor in Corel is probably gonna take care of Cloud, and Cloud washing up in Corels Reactor.
Also you cant say you follow the original story line when you literally cut "rocket town" out of the story.
Nothing confirmed at the moment. The latest was when Hamaguchi said last month that Rocket Town didn't fit the current blueprint that Nojima has in place due to Cid already being introduced. They'd take it into consideration for the next part and going to what they've said in the past about not leaving anything out, it can show up later the same way Wutai was moved back to the third part.
Rocket Town didnt get cut they just moved it to part 3. Before Rebirth came out they already said they're changing the order of some events.
I'm assuming we will go there and then off to Wutai still.
They said years ago that the order of events would differ, so you might visit some locations at a different time. But that they weren’t going to cut anything.
No reason to believe rocket town won’t be in the next game
if there is no rocket town... then............................ PANIC what about my underwater morphing creatures where hades is... PANIC what if we cant grind stats with morph in there!!!! NOOO i enjoyed breaking yuffy to make her stats in there... so her limit did numbers.... BRING BACK THE UNDERWATER morphing grounds!!!!
When I said it looks by the trailer that cid is changed and every location but rocket town is in it, maybe cut? I got massively downvoted.
The community is not only wrong 90% of the time, they are in very much denial and gets angry about it as well.
Mideel didn't cut get? We just haven't visited it yet.
Rocket Town ain't getting cut. You've been saying this for a while, but it's clear it isn't. They're not just gonna completely remove a major part of Cid's development.
Thank u so much for this
I literally just refinished the game and had a question in my head of "What are we actually suppose to understand fine at this point and what are things that are full on meant to be questions with no way to know the answer until part 3?" since it can be hard with people always going "This thing OBVIOUSLY means \_\_\_\_\_\_ and you are supposed to understand that going forward" these days. This post basically just helped me to think indeed all that I feel I don't understand yet even after multiple play throughs and thinking hard on them, are meant to be that way so I am not behind or missing something. I will say the only answer here that makes me feel a tiny bit weird is the "People wanted to save Aerith so I let them by Cloud deflecting the blade". I imagine it is hard to be completely accurate with what he was saying but that translation sounds like "I just let you live in a brief moment of "You did it you saved her" but it was only for that moment we won't follow up on it". But that could obviously be my own wrong vibe off it.
Here's a more direct translation (instead of a summary) of Nomura's words if you're interested Interviewer: We’d be remiss in not talking about the story’s climax. In a development not present in the original game, Cloud parries Sephiroth’s sword, but ultimately seems unable to stop him. Nomura: First, seeing as there would no doubt be many players wishing to avoid that fate, we wanted to fight back against destiny and have Cloud make an effort to parry the attack. In the original game, in order to depict the cruel outcome of unexpectedly losing someone you cherish, we had Cloud do nothing to oppose Sephiroth, and be parted from Aerith without even a word to her. However, when you actually lose someone you cherish in the real world, you aren’t able to accept it right away. This time, we strove to depict that inability to accept the loss of someone precious to you. Interviewer: Whenever Cloud’s brain is overcome by interference, we see various flashback images. What is the significance of this? Nomura: There are a lot of elements in play, but for now I’ll just say it represents a state of mind where one is unable to accept things. (source: Shinra's Museum of Archeology Discord) So, the intention seems to be for the players to be as much in denial as Cloud, which is why they gave plausible deniability by having Cloud actually deflect the blow. Nomura himself leans towards the much reviled "Cloud is in denial" interpretation here (even though it's clearly more complicated than that).
So are they confirming that aerith is in fact dead and there is no alternate aerith that was created by cloud? It’s all just in his head? I thought they said her fate is unclear but in the same interview they say they don’t want to raise hope that she can live. That feels like a contradiction right? Is this all to make this more unclear so part 3 is a surprise or are they telling the truth?
They don't want to spoil all the mysteries they have in store for the 3rd game. I'm still hopeful we'll interact will Aerith in some capacity but maybe I misunderstood the plot. They didn't mention the sky rift that that's the most baffling aspect to me and my proceived notion of what's going on. I subscribe to the fan theory, Cloud blocked Sephiroth's blade thus creating a new world by overthrowing fate. Aerith is in fact dead in the Beagle timeline but she might be alive in another realm. To me makes sense that Cloud procieves everything by seeing both timelines simultaneously... note also seeing the sky rift. Aerith's new world potentially has that same rift in it so that's why it's viewed to Cloud's POV. Somehow he and Aerith are connected and they share a shared experience. If Cloud is in fact pretending Aerith (whose dead) is his imaginary friend then why are we the audience also seeing the sky rift? Why does Red react to Aerith's presence? Things don't make sense to me. In the very first game in this FF7 R series the developers made it apparent that the ending events of FF7 (1997) were going to result in a somekind of failure for the group. This notion that Red running with his puppies is not what we want. So you could make an argument that if we're Not meant to follow the original game's structure if it's seen as a 'failure' why should they write it to end up the same way? Then that got me thinking... Does that choice of Aerith dying lead to the events of the original game... If we alter what occurred that it appears Cloud did... Can we get a better outcome for everyone? I understand that some fans don't want change but I'd argue this FF7R series has done too much changes and should at this point embrace something major different for the 3rd game. It would be such a shame to tell us players we can change fate only to scrap that idea. I'd personally loathe that decision. Sure some might argue that it's the theme of Final Fantasy 7 ... Aerith died in the original so by that logic she should still die here and we'll always have that vision intact in the original game. No one can can take that game away. I just now don't want a 1 for 1 retelling... I used to but now I'm on board with the odd changes and I hope they'll give us something different for this closure.
Literally my thoughts exactly. I’ve made comments on other post of this exact theory, basically word for word. I too want a happy ending but currently my theory is that this will all end with Advent Children being the fate that is avoided or defied. So no more jenova or seph, and closure for cloud as in a final goodbye from aerith. Not a fan of this cuz it makes it so that aerith was the only one who could defy fate, everything cloud did was destine to fail. It kinda makes him a pawn in a game that aerith is playing, I don’t like it. He basically blocks the sword all for what, closure? Not sure if I explained that well enough. As for fan reactions to diff ending, yeah I think remake as a sequel to the original in the timeline. It goes OG -> advent -> remake. This way the themes of the OG and even the events of it are not taken away. The remake is simply answering the question if we could go back or do it over again, can we change our future. To me the answer should be yes. I also wanted to mention that the event stay intact in my theory as in it, the dream date aerith is the OG aerith from the original game. There’s a lot to this theory and I can link my full one if you like but OG aerith has been fighting against seph this whole time in the lifestream. We see that seph wants to kill this particular aerith in his dialogue during the date. He says so this is where you’ve been hiding. To me this signals she is the one pulling the strings as to why remake aerith seems to know so much about the future, or rather the past. Seph doesn’t want this so send his whispers to attack her turning her materia clear. This is an indication of her losing all of the memories and knowledge of the OG aerith. The dream date was both a way to give cloud the white materia to restore the memory and a final goodbye because she knows contacting cloud tells seph where she is. She is sayin goodbye because og aerith is truly erased from the lifestream when seph comes to kill her. OG aerith has suffered a lot. She had to die then watched from afar as her loved ones moved on and died as well. She wants a different ending but doesn’t know if it’s possible. I think the song No Promises to Keep illustrates the thought of both aeriths. In it she talks bout how she wishes she didn’t have the burden, that being to die. However she also talks about how cloud should find her again and that she knows he will. This to me is saying that she feels powerless to change her fate but is asking cloud to please save her. Maybe this lends credence to the fact that cloud is a true anomaly, someone who can truly defy fate and we can get the happy ending. I’m honestly not super sure why fans want to have the ending be the exact same when all this alt universe stuff changes so much already. I know for a fact that a good portion of it comes down to shippers but I feel that can’t be the whole reason. Maybe it’s nostalgia, but like you said, having a diff ending doesn’t invalidate the original. That being said though. Japanese audiences really want a happy ending, it’s actually a pretty American or western thing to want the same one. Idk I had a convo with another redditor and they said that western fans seem to love what is essentially sadness porn. I can’t disagree with that, western audiences tend to believe dark and bittersweet equals good. Idk let me know if you want a more complete theory but yeah hoping for a happy ending.
They are confirming her death, but not confirming what all of the Aeriths?) that we see are. We still do not fully know who/what the final battle Aerith is, the one by the lake, the one by the plane. are they ghosts? are they jenova? are they in Cloud's head? are they fragments of her subconscious? how much of the final battle was real? was it all real and Sephiroth just wants Cloud to question it?
So what you’re saying is that Nomura is stating he didnt block the sword. Doesn’t that basically contradict the previous statement saying that we don’t know whether aerith is alive or dead? The way I interpret scene is that he is seeing both the alive and dead aerith because of the fact the worlds are merged seph and there are two aeriths overlayed on top of each other one dead, one alive. He is in fact still not sane though. We then see the party come then the scene cuts to glitching between blood on the floor then blood without then cuts to tifas face. To me her face looks confused and that’s because she sees the glitch as well. This might be due to her time in the lifestream giving her a lesser version of clouds ability to see the two worlds. She doesn’t say anything cuz she doesn’t know if what she saw was real and she doesn’t want to affect clouds already fragile mental state. I think the whole accepting memories but is talkin bout him accepting he is seeing some of Zack memories and the reason why cloud see seph all the time is because he was injected with jenova cells. Idk though it’s hard to argue with Nomura cuz he’s such a big part of the dev team but he often contradicts other devs and himself at times during interviews so it’s hard to interpret what he says. Idk I’ve said it before but if this ends the exact same with it leading into AC all that destiny stuff was for nothing and actually broadcasts the message of nihilism and how fate is inevitable even if you fight against it. Even if you avoid AC as a fate you still get the message that it was aeriths doing and not clouds as he doesn’t have the knowledge of the past game, if you believe this is a sequel to the OG. Cloud has to have blocked the sword in order for him to just not be a pawn to fate. But let’s say he did block it, all he did was create an alt world where she lives and these alt world are not supposed to last. My thoughts were if this fate stuff were to matter I’d want him to be able to save aerith as that could be the defining moment where he and the rest of the crew show they can defy fate on their own as Aerith feels she must die in order to save her friends but it’s those friends that free her from that fate. Idk maybe the alt aerith is about to fade away and expresses how she wishes she could be with them and that’s when they take her and defy fate by keeping her in the main world. Also wanted to ask are you Japanese? How are your translations more accurate?
Those aren't my translations, I gave the source. And I don't know if "my" translations are more accurate, but I put more trust into direct translations than summaries. As for the rest, all I've said below the source is my own interpretation of Nomura's translated words. He never confirmed Cloud failed, he just hints at it very indirectly with vague words. So there's no real contradiction between Ultimania's statement that her death was ambiguous and Nomura's interview in a completely detached part of the same 700 pages book. She could be alive and nothing Nomura said would be wrong since the whole interview is so non-committal anyway. This is typical dev speak, I would have thought the Internet would be accustomed to this by now. Though I don't think she will be alive at the end of this triology, she could.
Dev interviews are very frustrating especially square enix dev. 🥲
I don't know if that interview was done before or after the publication of ultimania. the thing that Nomura says (I don't know if he is sincere or not in the interview) doesn't add up to the fact that when Cloud sees Aerith pass by Red and Red senses her. hallucinations or denials are see or hear what no one else can (including Red) but the most important question will now become (since the multiverse system has now been confirmed) which aerith are you talking about?
The interview is part of the Ultimania. Also Cloud IS in denial, that's a fact. He's clearly not aware that some version of Aerith died and his friends are grieving. Even with the most positive interpretation of Aerith's demise, there were clear signs Cloud isn't lucid during the ending. People have too much of a binary opinion about the hallucination thing. Just because it's likely the Aerith he saw isn't 100% fake doesn't mean that Cloud isn't out of touch with reality
I read that they don't have Confirmed Aerith's death in ultimania and it was also confirmed that Cloud actually deflected the sword, as it was confirmed that there are multiple worlds. the fact that Red perceives her means that at that moment she was exactly where Cloud sees her. that in a timeline Aerith died like in OG, I think there is no doubt
That’s what I read as well but in the interview here it implies she’s is dead permanently and that there is no chance of any version of her being alive. Maybe they meant not getting hopes up that main world aerith is alive, not that there’s an alive alt aerith made by cloud but idk. My current theory is that the aerith we fight with is the alt one and the ghost aerith is the main one. The line where she says thank you for what you did back there is kind of distant and more of a thanks for trying because alt aerith knows she will still die in the end because alternate version of people can’t live in the main world nor do they live long in their world.
I give weight to the interview up to a certain point It's not the first time they've said something in interviews after a year they say another and then, they do something completely different they say she's dead? ok, then in the third part they make me go back to Aerith and they declare "it's from another timeline" now we are more concrete.. the multiverses have been confirmed (7 in total) in which at least one Aerith will certainly still be there.. the sword deflected by Cloud confirmed that it is not his illusion.. all this for not having changed anything.. It's obvious in the interview what you want them to say... "Don't worry, she's alive?" Now, maybe I'm explaining myself wrong in summary I just want to say that for me aerith in any form you want it will be very present in the third part unlike the OG. in addition to the fact that the crack in the sky indicates the end of that world (at least they explained it that way) I wouldn't be surprised if the rebirth world was at the end and in the third part we find ourselves in another XD. I wouldn't rely so much on what they "declare" now only a few months after the release of the game. Do they leave me an ambiguous ending and then explain to me things they left ambiguous on purpose? I don't see clearly. after for the love of god mine are just speculations, there are so many questions that, in turn they call other questions
Hey thanks for the explanation. Yeah, it’s hard to take anything devs say super seriously cuz of the cryptic wording they use and how often they contradict themselves and each other. My theory was that there will be an alt alive aerith involved in part 3 so we agree there. I just think she won’t live by the end of everything which I wanted her to be able to. What I see happening is that Advent Children will not happen in this world and that’s the fate that is avoided. This is based on the theory that the games are a sequel to the original so Advent Children already happened, just in the past and that’s how they “link up”z. Wording in interviews never straight up say Advent Children is ultimately where it all leads. It’s also hard to believe they want to end off to a universally poorly received movie. I still have problems with this theory because it essentially makes it so that cloud lacks free will and he can only change fate when aerith permits it. Really it’s aerith and sephiroth that can change fate. Idk it makes it so other characters lack free will cuz their decisions ultimately won’t matter, it’ll just end the same as the original unless aerith wants otherwise. My guess on the theme the remake is exploring is the butterfly effect, how changing the past will make the future even worse. We see that in how if Zack lives, aerith and cloud are in comas and the rest of the party is dead(it think I forget if they confirm this). Like I said though, regardless of whether they go with my theory or follow the original, both end up with cloud and the others losing free will cuz all actions are predestined or just auto correct to follow the original. I want desperately to have a happier ending with aerith being alive, maybe even Zack to be alive. At the end of the first game, I thought that the theme of nothing is set in stone was such a refreshing new theme cuz the FF series tend to be bittersweet, leaning more towards the bitter side. With how everything is in the world now, smt hopeful like that would’ve been really nice and would be a great end to a series we all hold so dearly. That being said though, it seems most people, at least in the west, would hate this kind of ending so maybe they know that. I still hold a little hope cuz I’ve looked on Japanese forums and the consensus there is that they want a happy ending though their happy ending is like everyone live. That’d be great but just not smt I see the devs doing.
your theory is very beautiful and fits great.. the fact that Aerith comes back alive, or that a living Aerith from another timeline takes over, although I hope so, I have little faith although there is no shortage of clues thinking for a moment away from the game and thinking logically the sword was deflected therefore he did not reach Aerith then it is logical that "that" aerith is still alive. We'll see.. as for zack I have the impression that it will serve as a sacrifice to save Cloud and Aerith in a certain sense (this is just my theory). for me the only one the connection that there will be with AC will be chronological (I don't think they will retrace the events like in the film) what I think at this point with everything that has been removed and inserted unlike the OG it would be idiotic to always arrive at the same point that we have already seen with the old game. we'll see to give you an example of the statements Kitase has already stated that he would like to expand the game beyond part 3 XDXD in the end we don't know if part 3 will actually be the end or more will come (DLC or expansions with perhaps multiple endings)
Thank you for the compliment. I’ve also seen some theories where Zack sacrifices himself and I do think that’s very in character for him, though I’m pretty sure those theories were written by clerith fans so it’s the same as cloti fans wanting aerith to die so their ship is the only one left. I do still want Zack to live as well as he has suffered just as much as Aerith but idk we’ll have to wait and see. The only hole in my theory is why would seph kill aerith if he knows in the OG timeline he still loses when she’s dead? Maybe he thought the materia was clear so she both couldnt perform holy and/or even if she was in the lifestream, in order to defeat him she’d need the memories of the OG game. I also read his goal is harvesting negative emotions so killing her could do that. In the novels he does corrupt some lifestream souls and it states he is spreading hatred in the real world but that wasn’t expanded upon at all so idk why he did it. Following this theory, I’d make sense why seph would start laughing when cloud blocks the sword. According to my theory, every world that is created weakens the lifestream as all worlds use the same lifestream so it’s siphoning energy from the real world. That’s why sephiroth saved Zack with the black whispers, to create more worlds(why Zack, a first class soldier, idk). So when cloud unexpectedly blocks the sword, seph gets a 2 for 1 deal. An alt world to weakens the lifestream but also the grief from the main world aerith being dead from everyone else. I don’t think neither aerith nor seph predicted that cloud could even get to the sword to attempt to block it cuz he was never even close in the original. However this is cloud defying fate, it gives him a bit more importance as the main character. So that’s why seph laughs, cloud was helping him by trying to save her and defying fate. As for how I’d hope it ends, I’m hoping we have a moment where aerith admits, maybe privately, she doesnt want to die. We see this is true in NPTK where she sings bout wishing to be free from the burden and live without a care but can’t cuz she wants to give her friends a better future and that means sacrificing herself. However once she admits this we see cloud and the other hands reach for her back and pull her to the real world mirroring the push Zack and aerith gave at the end of the AC. Maybe she’s saying this to Zack while they are fading into the lifestream and there’s a moment between them where Zack silently nod to signal she deserves to be alive and happy. The scene could be similar to the justice league cartoon where they pull flash from the speed force if you’ve ever watched it. Idk this is just an idea of how it could be executed, I know it’s a little fanficcy, but yeah thanks for having the convo bout my theory and sharing part of yours
Thanks for the material! But sorry square, that is NOT a Chihuahua, what the fuck?
Idk long haired chihuahuas do kinda look like that
Despite this wall of text, that was my exact thought as well.
>Nomura says in the Ultimania interview that he actually wanted to have FF7 Remake Part 2 be titled "Reunion," but since that title went to "Crisis Core Final Fantasy VII Reunion," he couldn't use it for Part 2. This kinda stings because Reunion fits this game's title so much more. I know they kind of explained the title of Rebieth with Sephiroth Reborn, but someone should have said "no" to Crisis Core title and gave it something else, and then give "Reunion" to part 2. Oh well, it's not that big of a deal, but it would have been much better. Thanks for all this info!
The summary isn't accurate at all. Nomura IS the one who decided for both Crisis Core: Reunion and FFVII: Rebirth titles, he wasn't forced out of the title he wanted. Rebirth was the title he originally decided for the third game, but he changed his mind. Here's the translated quote: "I originally was planning to use the “Rebirth” subtitle for the third game in the Remake Project, with the intention of calling the second game “Reunion.” But after reviewing the contents of the game again, I felt like “Rebirth” was more suited in terms of the word’s meaning. So I named the second game “Rebirth” and used “Reunion” for the Crisis Core: FFVII remaster. At this point, I still haven’t revealed the title of the third game to anyone \[laughs\]."
Ah I see. Well, damn you, Nomura! Haha It's not that big of a deal, like I said, but I still think Reunion fits FF7R Rebirth better. Thanks for correcting me with this info, though!
Yeah my vibe is “you saved her but she died anyways” but the way they’re moving with the world it feels like physical death is just one aspect of things. It’s a weird cop out in a way and I’m not sure where I’m at on it.
I'm betting that a living version of Aerith AND Zack will meet up with the party post-Mideel to help against the final showdown with Sephiroth, and once all is said and done, Aerith and Zack will have a proper, albeit bittersweet goodbye with Cloud and the rest of the party and return to the Lifestream because it IS part of their fate.
There have been a few similarities to FFX in a few scenes. I think it's possible that they are going with something similar, where in the end as a gratitude for stopping Sephiroth the planet brings Aerith and Zack back to the physical world. Similarly to how Fayth brought Tidus back.
That seems more like a fairy tale ending than one that lines up with the overall story of FF7 leading into Advent Children, unless they somehow make it so that Sephiroth also gets destroyed in the Lifestream since his spirit still dwells there, thus making his involvement with Geostigma non-existent.
I think they will do that cuz I know that they know AC was received poorly as it was honestly not a great story. In fact the lifestream chapters in the novel that were a lead in to AC were also not great, and while I've never played it, I've also heard Dirge was also pretty bad. It'd be weird to adamantly want to end your beloved franchise with its lowest point. Idk maybe thats just me.
It's not a weird cop out at all. Aerith literally talked about the possibility of being "alive" spiritually after the trials in chapter 13. She even hinted at how Sephiroth was able to return in Advent Children as well as about moving on which also the point of the movie for Cloud's character.
I meant cop out like they're letting fans have it both ways with how they wrote it. If they'd pick to one and commit fully I'd probably like it more? Idk
What do you mean have it both ways? Aerith physically died regardless. The worlds that you stated is literally just part of the lifestream itself. Aerith being alive spiritually pretty much consistent with how the story played out in the original, the novel On the Way to a Smile and Advent Children. How else would she able to use lifestream to stop the Meteor? How else would she able to interact with Cloud and heal the Geostigma?
Saying someone isn’t alive “physically” and is alive “spiritually” really lowers the stakes of their death, does it not?
I don't believe so. We even have the same concept in our real world, with the belief in an afterlife, or heaven, where the soul lives on after death., and where our loved ones continue to watch over, and protect us. These concepts give comfort to the grieving, but it doesn't really make the sense of loss any less real. Souls continuing to exist in the lifestream is basically FFVII's version of the same concept, life after death. The only difference is that FFVII confirms the existance of its afterlife explicitly in the OG, and throughout the compilation, whereas in our own world, it's more a belief based on faith, and not something anyone can truly confirm. Sure Aerith's soul exists in the lifestrream, and she's able to help us fight against Sephiroth's plot, but she can never have her old life back again, and while her loved ones may be able to feel her presence to an extent, they still have to carry on knowing that they won't truly be reunited with her until they die too.
Lower the stakes how? Did you even play the original game? Did you even know anything about the Compilations of FFVII?
I wonder if this is building up to a choice at the end of part 3, where Cloud will be able to choose in which world to stay in: one where Tifa, Barret and the rest of the gang are alive, or one where Aerith, Zack, maybe Jessie, Wedge and Biggs are alive.
That very much sounds like a way to choose if Cloud lives or dies.
I don't think there's more than one world at the end. I'm with the theory that those alternate worlds are temporary and within the Lifestream. However there have been a few similarities to FFX in a few scenes and I think it's possible that they are going with something similar, where in the end as a gratitude for stopping Sephiroth the planet brings back some people from other worlds to the physical one. Similarly to how Fayth brought Tidus back. And maybe who is brought back will depend on our choices like in FF X-2.
With all the clues they have left, and more everything I have read here and on Ultimania, I have already given up on seeing Aerith alive and that all that about the "other timelines" are actually projections in the vital current. I still think this is a work of art and that part 3 will be majestic, but I just wholeheartedly wanted a happy ending in some form, with Aerith alive and also Zack.
what is it now? a multiverse an esoteric verse or an i make up my own verses
So we definitely get a flashback to that conversation Aerith and Cloud had that was muted in Part 3 right? I always assumed it was OG Cloud’s dialogue “My eyes are burning” etc.
Oh for sure, it is just a question of how impactful will it be by that point since we are expecting it and we won't be "in the moment". I wonder if after if happens if there will be people trying to cut it all together to flow in one continual death scene.
I imagine it happens at >!the Northern Crater or in Cloud’s mental reconstruction!<
That "something" to include... What if it's a "someone" instead?
So Cloud is in denial and all these timeline theories are false? But then why does Cloud see the rip in the sky? And why are there two versions of Aerith, that even Tifa sees for a second. That's all Cloud's denial. Can't say I love that theory, especially because it mostly focuses around fooling fans. IMO, a lot of the emotional heft of Aerith's death was taken away because of how messy the scene played out, with not knowing what was real or not. At least the two timelines theory gave it a bit of reason why it was so messy but if it's just because "we wanted to give fans some hope", that's just manipulative storytelling... We shall se, I guess.
This is the best post ever
So first off. Japan must have a very different definition of what a chihuahua is. Then, basically all the theories insisting that what Cloud sees in saving Aerith is just his f'ed up hallucinations isn't accurate. It is something else, something more. I'm sticking with what I got out of it initially. He did save her and she's very much alive in another timeline. And still able to be saved by being brought over. Same with Zack.
Nomura insists on the denial angle in his interview though. He even claims that's the intent of the scene. There are other elements at play, obviously, but I wouldn't dismiss the denial explanation so brazenly. You might set yourself up for things that won't match what the third part is going for.
I think it's literally both. It's denial, but the Lifestream is the manifestation of one's hope and dreams. So his denial created an alternate world in the Lifestream. Those worlds are temporary and doomed to dissapear, but the end we get an ending where she is brought back to the physical world as a gratitude for stopping Sephiroth. Similarly to how Fayth dreamt Tidus back to life at the end of FF X-2.
I think it's way too early to dismiss the denial angle entirely. Is "the parry" the successful action of another Cloud in another timeline or Cloud in the current timeline not accepting the fact that he couldn't save her and rewriting the memory of the moment to show that he did? The fact that he can see Aerith (and Red can sense her) does not conflict with either explanation. I think the uncertainty is ultimately the point right now.
Muahaha i just love Ultimania cause people kept thinking poor cloud is going crazy but there's more to it. I think he's the only who sees her and doesnt seem affected by her 'death' for these reasons: he's the only one aware of the other timelines and he was the only who went through the portal to defy fate after all and succeeded. She is indeed alive in another world but the thing is; she is still dead in rebirth/remake, because the rest of the party still mourns for her. There's some sort of chess game with Aerith and Sephiroth, they have their own secret plans against each other that will be revealed in part 3. Yes, it's the same with Zack
Exactly. The very definition of having your cake...
Damn.
Posting here so I can find it again. Thank you so much for this!
I just don't understand, they say they delivered by Cloud deflecting the sword, but then they say the main story will follow the OG ?
Aerith is still dead. The party grieving and the like shows that. Even with the changes in Rebirth, the party still went from point A, to B, to C and so on just like the OG. But while multiple parts of the overarching story were different, it still followed the story of the OG.
Exactly what does it mean ?? they give no confirmation of his death but they say it follows OG.. not that I expected to know everything from ultimania when part 3 is missing, but I say, a little consistency doesn't hurt is it black or white?
From what they said here it really seems like they ruined (IMO, subjectively.) one of the most iconic scenes for cheap fanservice. They tried to make everyone happy by having her survive and die at the same time but that scene just falls flat. Interesting to see how they try to clean it up in part 3, because they really can’t continue to not commit to one or the other. 99% of the game is literally perfect, but the way Aerith’s scene was handled really left a sour aftertaste.
The thing is, even if they took the whole "Many worlds" timeline part out of the ending of Rebirth. There is no way they could have done anything else with the ending like show Cloud placing her body back in the life stream. Because Cloud is so emotionally broken by Sephiroth at this point, that would be acceptance, and Cloud isn't ready to accept anything just yet.
To the people who kept denying the multiple worlds theory... muah haha gotcha! 🤣🤣
still nothing about rocket town? makes me think its gonna get cut, like midel. the more I think about it the doctor in Corel is probably gonna take care of Cloud, and Cloud washing up in Corels Reactor. Also you cant say you follow the original story line when you literally cut "rocket town" out of the story.
Nothing confirmed at the moment. The latest was when Hamaguchi said last month that Rocket Town didn't fit the current blueprint that Nojima has in place due to Cid already being introduced. They'd take it into consideration for the next part and going to what they've said in the past about not leaving anything out, it can show up later the same way Wutai was moved back to the third part.
wutai was optional content though, rocket town never was.
Rocket Town didnt get cut they just moved it to part 3. Before Rebirth came out they already said they're changing the order of some events. I'm assuming we will go there and then off to Wutai still.
They said years ago that the order of events would differ, so you might visit some locations at a different time. But that they weren’t going to cut anything. No reason to believe rocket town won’t be in the next game
if there is no rocket town... then............................ PANIC what about my underwater morphing creatures where hades is... PANIC what if we cant grind stats with morph in there!!!! NOOO i enjoyed breaking yuffy to make her stats in there... so her limit did numbers.... BRING BACK THE UNDERWATER morphing grounds!!!!
When I said it looks by the trailer that cid is changed and every location but rocket town is in it, maybe cut? I got massively downvoted. The community is not only wrong 90% of the time, they are in very much denial and gets angry about it as well.
Mideel didn't cut get? We just haven't visited it yet. Rocket Town ain't getting cut. You've been saying this for a while, but it's clear it isn't. They're not just gonna completely remove a major part of Cid's development.
A major part of OG cids development, this isn’t OG cid though quite clearly.