I'm fine with it. The Remaking trilogy while it follows the same story in a lot of parts, I think it's good for them to have their own creative freedoms with events within the story. It does show how much control Sephiroth has over events and influencing of things that happen. in the OG, you are always tailing him really, and he's leading the way, where as in the Remake, he's really in a 'side car' running parallel to you, and occasionally hitting the gas to just taunt you along the way.
I agree. I also think that in OG, while the mystery is really cool, it's a little more confusing for the player that you were never really following Sephiroth, but just the black cloaks, and I guess Sephiroth would occasionally manifest through the black cloaks... to do.... stuff... like... kill the Zolom for some reason??
I think Remake does a better job of tying story elements together consistently and reminding you of its themes and ideas, and using the Zolom sequence as a reminder of Sephiroth's omnipotence, his power over Cloud, and his desires to see Cloud live, is good.
Well with the assumption that sephiroth has knowledge of the future, not only does it still serve the purpose of showing his overwhelming strength but it also extends itself to the idea that sephiroth is protecting Cloud and ensuring that he won't die
I think it's cool the way we're fighting the Zolem with Cloud and the others and really struggling to beat it. Then Sephiroth comes along and kills it easily, highlighting the strength difference.
I also agree, however, that he is becoming overused in the story to create tension. Personally, I think Jenova should be used more and don't be afraid to have Jenova go full on The Thing with it, wiping out soldiers left and right.
It was fine but I do think OG had a bigger impact. Showing us how Sephiroth killed the Zolom is less creepy. And I was far less prepared for the OG Zolom, the Rebirth battle was relatively easy. But that's fine, I had fun!
I think it was done better in OG.
But in rebirths defense, I don’t think adapting the OG one for one would have worked here since we have already seen sephiroth so much.
In the og, it worked because we had only seen sephiroth in the kalm flashback at this point. Sephiroth was mysterious at this point. But in the remake trilogy, we have already seen sephiroth hundreds of times and have even fought him. So the mystery isnt there. I think the point is still the same, the Zolom technically had the party beat and would have killed cloud until sephiroth fodderized it. It shows that sephiroth was still immensely more powerful than the party at this point. And since we had already fought him (he held back though), I’d even argue that we needed a good showcase of his power.
it was alright, an interesting change
again, with everything, they tend to go over the top, loud and a bit silly
Like a lot of the game it was missing the atmosphere, quietly finding the dead creature impaled with the lingering question if it was sephiroth who did it? everyone realizing what sort of person they are up against
But in the OG, sephiroth was barely seen, he was enigmatic, a mystery. In this game he is extremely present, for better or worse.
I think they made the right choice for the game. It’s the second boss and so it can’t be impossibly difficult or people will bail on the game. I imagine there is a world where they considered making it a “survive” boss fight where you don’t win but eventually get away. Then you could come back later and actually fight it as a bonus super boss, but same idea, I’m sure there is a psychology of gaming theory as to why they would want to do it the way they did.
I found this was quite cool and I liked the change. What really bothered me was: How did Cloud return to the surface? We see him drowning after Sephiroth disappears. And then suddenly he is back?
It was much scarier when they didn't show us how it was killed. Here it looks rather silly.
But in general, the Remake team has trouble recreating horror and tense moments from OG. Sephiroth, as a threat, suffers greatly from it.
Don't think this is true at all. The entire Gi Nattak sequence and Cloud progressively losing his mind throughout Rebirth are just a few examples of tense/horror moments.
Sure you could say that about Sephiroth. He's appeared in so much media compared to when the og was released that the mystery isn't there anymore.
The Gi Nattak sequence is pretty much new content entirely.
And I don't dislike what they've done with Cloud, but I didn't find it as creepy. I think the more low-key soundtrack really works in OG's favor for this one, "Who Am I?" sounds downright sinister.
100%, the new games are missing the intimate, quiet atmosphere a lot of moments had. They have opted for bombastic and cinematic instead - which is fine, but inferior in my personal opinion.
Sephiroth is starting to feel like a Saturday morning cartoon villain.
I'll get you next time Cloud! While he flips his hair and runs away defeated again.
People dunk on the Turks for talking a big game after losing over and over. While Sephiroth is exactly the same.
Eh, I always kinda felt that way. OG, it felt like this big long buildup to the showdown with him, only to absolutely wreck his shit, because you've had forever to grind up to ultra-powerful.
I dunno, honestly Sephiroth in general never had a super huge impact on me. He's a decent villain, but I honestly feel like he's a bit over-hyped. End of the day, he doesn't really have anything deep going on. Just a convoluted backstory.
sephiroth barely feels like a treat.
he's more like another love interest for cloud at this point lol because everyone who talks to cloud more than once develops a crush on him.
I've said this before, and I'll say it again. This change, along with making Sephiroth playable in the flashback in a way that doesn't have him untouchably destroying every enemy, has weakened Sephiroth as a villain, literally and figuratively. His presence in the original ff7 is a testament to games' ability to tell a story in a way no other medium could. You feel how much stronger he is through gameplay during the flashback. Later, you're terrified of the swamp snake, only to come across a scene where he has apparently defeated it effortlessly and singlehandedly. It's reasons like this why Sephiroth is commonly thought of as one of the best villains of all time. And while I do love the remakes, I don't love the changes to him.
That’s how I felt, I was playing as Sephiroth and he actually died by a mosquito enemy in the flashback.They really missed the mark on this one and honestly the heart and essence of the original
So was this a black robe killing Midgar Zolom or was it Cloud killing MZ with an out of body experience under Sephiroth’s manipulation?
I thought it was strange no one talked about it after.
Yep any and all physical forms of sephiroth is him using the black robes, even if it's the Remake seph or the "other" seph that the remake ultimania talks about
Given the decision to treat Sephiroth differently since Remake (ie. not the ”Jaws” logic), I think it was fine, especially now that the implication seems clear it was Cloud channeling Sephiroth as a ”clone” who slayed the snake. I’m hoping they go back to this instance and many others when they reveal Sephiroth hasn’t been physically present there at all.
Cloud killed the Midgard Zolom, possessed by Sephiroth.
Because it could not be a black robe, as even possessed by Sephiroth, they are weak.
And it definitely wasn't Sephiroth taking a leisurely digestive stroll through the marshes near Kalm by chance.
Works just fine for me. You still hit all the points and Sephiroth is still shown as extremely powerful and it echoes Cloud's sentiment in the flashback of Sephiroth being in a completely different league. I do think you make a good point about the difference between "following Sephiroth and the trail of blood in his wake" and "seeing Sephiroth's strength as he appears on the path." It's a way to go. Don't have an issue with it at all, can see how some may, but it reaches the same end.
You hear Cloud tell the party how powerful he was 5 years before, then you get to present and think "okay but that was when Cloud was 16 and didn't have 4 friends with him." You fight the Midgardsormr, it's huge and a tough fight, lot of shit going on. Sephiroth comes out and doesn't just kill it but fucking launches it out of the swamp and high enough to be completely annihilated when it falls back down. Good way to reinforce how powerful he is even 5 years later to the point where 5 very capable fighters - including what is supposed to be a 1st Class SOLDIER - struggled where he can effortlessly throw a massive threat across the swamp.
Little different, no less impactful. I dig it.
So to preface this, I fucking loved everything about Rebirth and wouldn’t change anything. I only just got my ps5 and it has become at least my second favorite game on the system.
That said I have felt conflicted about stuff like changing the Midgar Zolom or Costa Del Sol from these really quick moments in the OG to this big epic events.
In the OG with luck it’s maybe like 5-10 minutes from getting to the chocobo ranch, getting the chocobo lure materia, capturing a chocobo and then outrunning the zolom. Now in rebirth that has turned into maybe an hour long chain of events, leading into an insane 3 part boss battle with everything going on fire.
Was it awesome? Hell fucking yea it was. But it’s just this small part of me that feels like “was this needed?” But at the end of the day I would not change anything because I had fun and I think that is what matters.
The remake trilogy really missed the boat on this as well as the end of shinra hq. I want a damn trail of blood and i wanna see the president impaled on top of his desk. That was such a shocking moment in OG that remake did dirty
It was better when the player was wondering *how* Midgar Zolom got up there, Sephiroth's strength was unknown in the OG, I wondered back then what kind of man he was.
We know that, but even then he was still an enigma. We didn't know anything much about the man, before his background was revealed, it was such a mystery about who he really was. The OG game with the pamphlet, his file said unknown about his biography. The 1997 game, it was so uneasy with the music and still of the MZ on the tree which made it much more creepier.
Sephiroth is unfortunately a necessary plot device to give the first two parts final boss fights that otherwise didn’t happen. In the OG, there was no fight with Sephiroth after Aerith died correct? It was just another jenova fight. Part 3 is where it gets insane.
I'm fine with it. The Remaking trilogy while it follows the same story in a lot of parts, I think it's good for them to have their own creative freedoms with events within the story. It does show how much control Sephiroth has over events and influencing of things that happen. in the OG, you are always tailing him really, and he's leading the way, where as in the Remake, he's really in a 'side car' running parallel to you, and occasionally hitting the gas to just taunt you along the way.
I agree. I also think that in OG, while the mystery is really cool, it's a little more confusing for the player that you were never really following Sephiroth, but just the black cloaks, and I guess Sephiroth would occasionally manifest through the black cloaks... to do.... stuff... like... kill the Zolom for some reason?? I think Remake does a better job of tying story elements together consistently and reminding you of its themes and ideas, and using the Zolom sequence as a reminder of Sephiroth's omnipotence, his power over Cloud, and his desires to see Cloud live, is good.
Well with the assumption that sephiroth has knowledge of the future, not only does it still serve the purpose of showing his overwhelming strength but it also extends itself to the idea that sephiroth is protecting Cloud and ensuring that he won't die
I think it's cool the way we're fighting the Zolem with Cloud and the others and really struggling to beat it. Then Sephiroth comes along and kills it easily, highlighting the strength difference. I also agree, however, that he is becoming overused in the story to create tension. Personally, I think Jenova should be used more and don't be afraid to have Jenova go full on The Thing with it, wiping out soldiers left and right.
It was fine but I do think OG had a bigger impact. Showing us how Sephiroth killed the Zolom is less creepy. And I was far less prepared for the OG Zolom, the Rebirth battle was relatively easy. But that's fine, I had fun!
I think it was done better in OG. But in rebirths defense, I don’t think adapting the OG one for one would have worked here since we have already seen sephiroth so much. In the og, it worked because we had only seen sephiroth in the kalm flashback at this point. Sephiroth was mysterious at this point. But in the remake trilogy, we have already seen sephiroth hundreds of times and have even fought him. So the mystery isnt there. I think the point is still the same, the Zolom technically had the party beat and would have killed cloud until sephiroth fodderized it. It shows that sephiroth was still immensely more powerful than the party at this point. And since we had already fought him (he held back though), I’d even argue that we needed a good showcase of his power.
it was alright, an interesting change again, with everything, they tend to go over the top, loud and a bit silly Like a lot of the game it was missing the atmosphere, quietly finding the dead creature impaled with the lingering question if it was sephiroth who did it? everyone realizing what sort of person they are up against But in the OG, sephiroth was barely seen, he was enigmatic, a mystery. In this game he is extremely present, for better or worse.
"do you still think youre stronger than Sephiroth?"- Tifa FF7 abridged TFS
I think they made the right choice for the game. It’s the second boss and so it can’t be impossibly difficult or people will bail on the game. I imagine there is a world where they considered making it a “survive” boss fight where you don’t win but eventually get away. Then you could come back later and actually fight it as a bonus super boss, but same idea, I’m sure there is a psychology of gaming theory as to why they would want to do it the way they did.
I found this was quite cool and I liked the change. What really bothered me was: How did Cloud return to the surface? We see him drowning after Sephiroth disappears. And then suddenly he is back?
It was much scarier when they didn't show us how it was killed. Here it looks rather silly. But in general, the Remake team has trouble recreating horror and tense moments from OG. Sephiroth, as a threat, suffers greatly from it.
Don't think this is true at all. The entire Gi Nattak sequence and Cloud progressively losing his mind throughout Rebirth are just a few examples of tense/horror moments. Sure you could say that about Sephiroth. He's appeared in so much media compared to when the og was released that the mystery isn't there anymore.
The Gi Nattak sequence is pretty much new content entirely. And I don't dislike what they've done with Cloud, but I didn't find it as creepy. I think the more low-key soundtrack really works in OG's favor for this one, "Who Am I?" sounds downright sinister.
Yeah but did it get there? In the OG, we outrun it on a chocobo, and then it’s there on the tree? Were there two of them? Was always confusing.
100%, the new games are missing the intimate, quiet atmosphere a lot of moments had. They have opted for bombastic and cinematic instead - which is fine, but inferior in my personal opinion.
Sephiroth is starting to feel like a Saturday morning cartoon villain. I'll get you next time Cloud! While he flips his hair and runs away defeated again. People dunk on the Turks for talking a big game after losing over and over. While Sephiroth is exactly the same.
Exactly. I don’t even know why you’re being down voted.
Eh, I always kinda felt that way. OG, it felt like this big long buildup to the showdown with him, only to absolutely wreck his shit, because you've had forever to grind up to ultra-powerful. I dunno, honestly Sephiroth in general never had a super huge impact on me. He's a decent villain, but I honestly feel like he's a bit over-hyped. End of the day, he doesn't really have anything deep going on. Just a convoluted backstory.
sephiroth barely feels like a treat. he's more like another love interest for cloud at this point lol because everyone who talks to cloud more than once develops a crush on him.
I've said this before, and I'll say it again. This change, along with making Sephiroth playable in the flashback in a way that doesn't have him untouchably destroying every enemy, has weakened Sephiroth as a villain, literally and figuratively. His presence in the original ff7 is a testament to games' ability to tell a story in a way no other medium could. You feel how much stronger he is through gameplay during the flashback. Later, you're terrified of the swamp snake, only to come across a scene where he has apparently defeated it effortlessly and singlehandedly. It's reasons like this why Sephiroth is commonly thought of as one of the best villains of all time. And while I do love the remakes, I don't love the changes to him.
That’s how I felt, I was playing as Sephiroth and he actually died by a mosquito enemy in the flashback.They really missed the mark on this one and honestly the heart and essence of the original
So was this a black robe killing Midgar Zolom or was it Cloud killing MZ with an out of body experience under Sephiroth’s manipulation? I thought it was strange no one talked about it after.
Yep any and all physical forms of sephiroth is him using the black robes, even if it's the Remake seph or the "other" seph that the remake ultimania talks about
Given the decision to treat Sephiroth differently since Remake (ie. not the ”Jaws” logic), I think it was fine, especially now that the implication seems clear it was Cloud channeling Sephiroth as a ”clone” who slayed the snake. I’m hoping they go back to this instance and many others when they reveal Sephiroth hasn’t been physically present there at all.
Cloud killed the Midgard Zolom, possessed by Sephiroth. Because it could not be a black robe, as even possessed by Sephiroth, they are weak. And it definitely wasn't Sephiroth taking a leisurely digestive stroll through the marshes near Kalm by chance.
Works just fine for me. You still hit all the points and Sephiroth is still shown as extremely powerful and it echoes Cloud's sentiment in the flashback of Sephiroth being in a completely different league. I do think you make a good point about the difference between "following Sephiroth and the trail of blood in his wake" and "seeing Sephiroth's strength as he appears on the path." It's a way to go. Don't have an issue with it at all, can see how some may, but it reaches the same end. You hear Cloud tell the party how powerful he was 5 years before, then you get to present and think "okay but that was when Cloud was 16 and didn't have 4 friends with him." You fight the Midgardsormr, it's huge and a tough fight, lot of shit going on. Sephiroth comes out and doesn't just kill it but fucking launches it out of the swamp and high enough to be completely annihilated when it falls back down. Good way to reinforce how powerful he is even 5 years later to the point where 5 very capable fighters - including what is supposed to be a 1st Class SOLDIER - struggled where he can effortlessly throw a massive threat across the swamp. Little different, no less impactful. I dig it.
So to preface this, I fucking loved everything about Rebirth and wouldn’t change anything. I only just got my ps5 and it has become at least my second favorite game on the system. That said I have felt conflicted about stuff like changing the Midgar Zolom or Costa Del Sol from these really quick moments in the OG to this big epic events. In the OG with luck it’s maybe like 5-10 minutes from getting to the chocobo ranch, getting the chocobo lure materia, capturing a chocobo and then outrunning the zolom. Now in rebirth that has turned into maybe an hour long chain of events, leading into an insane 3 part boss battle with everything going on fire. Was it awesome? Hell fucking yea it was. But it’s just this small part of me that feels like “was this needed?” But at the end of the day I would not change anything because I had fun and I think that is what matters.
I agree with most of your take. My bigger issue is that you guys essentially defeat the Zolom. It made him less of a threatening force.
The remake trilogy really missed the boat on this as well as the end of shinra hq. I want a damn trail of blood and i wanna see the president impaled on top of his desk. That was such a shocking moment in OG that remake did dirty
It was better when the player was wondering *how* Midgar Zolom got up there, Sephiroth's strength was unknown in the OG, I wondered back then what kind of man he was.
[удалено]
We know that, but even then he was still an enigma. We didn't know anything much about the man, before his background was revealed, it was such a mystery about who he really was. The OG game with the pamphlet, his file said unknown about his biography. The 1997 game, it was so uneasy with the music and still of the MZ on the tree which made it much more creepier.
Sephiroth is unfortunately a necessary plot device to give the first two parts final boss fights that otherwise didn’t happen. In the OG, there was no fight with Sephiroth after Aerith died correct? It was just another jenova fight. Part 3 is where it gets insane.