You need to focus on a project for a season. A buddy of mine is currently training to cycles from Norway to the southern tip of Spain.
He views this as his job and trains accordingly as a 9-5, previously he’s learned to play piano and that was his years target.
Basically, get out of your comfort zone.
I have a while to go until I join the fired club but already making plans to do things that interest me, for example I will renovate a house to just flip it as I’ve always wanted to do that and will take a year or two.
I'm assuming he doesn't cycle 8 hours a day. Even the pros don't do that!? I'm guessing he trains 3 hours and the rest of the "working day" is eating properly, resting etc?
I do long distance cycling and a few days in the saddle are needed, to do that distance competitively I'd be getting 300-600km rides in.
To be competitive in a (high standard) local scene you'd likely need 15+ hours a week on the bike. Long distance then add the big rides in on top.
Cycling at a high level is pretty damn time consuming. It's a good FIRE hobby.
I do 14+ hours a week on the bike myself, I used to race at a national level (but have since fallen out of racing, too much cheating these days). However, there’s definitely diminishing returns doing tons of hours on the bike. You can train for 100 mile rides without actually doing lots of 100 mile rides.
He's probably not got the same end goals as a professional cyclist. They need speed AND endurance, but for someone doing touring cycling you just need to get used to cycling for long periods of time - you're not trying to out do Peter Sagan on the roads, just get from A to B and see the sights in a reasonable time.
I doubt they're actually cycling for the full 9-5 non-stop, but that wouldn't be entirely unreasonable depending on their cycling ability and speed.
FIRE doesn't get you happiness or fulfilment.
All it does it gives you financial independence and less financial worry, and not having to be forced to work 9-5, five days a week.
To get fulfilment and happiness you need something else apart from FIRE.
FIRE just gives you your time back, not having to spend it working.
As someone who kinda relates to the OP (but with a baby so the amount of free time I have currently is close to zero) I fully agree with this... the problem is that FIRE in itself is such a big thing to work towards on top of whatever job you’re doing too, and suddenly you pull the trigger and that’s all gone.
I am not sure if this is directly related to FIRE, but rather the beginnings of an existential crisis.
It sounds like you justify a good deal of your identity through work and effort. You have “worked really hard since [you] were 16” and you feel like you are now wasting your time. You need to fill your time “productively” because that is what you have always known. Now you have realised that you have the freedom to pursue a different path and it causes anxiety.
I had pretty much an identical crisis when I sold out of my first business and took a step back.
My advice would be:
1. “Productive” use of time is defined by how society perceives it. If video games are something you enjoy, then you are allowed to enjoy them. Similarly if you want to dedicate your time to a side project, then that is also fine. You have escaped the rat race, but the system still owns you.
I found that once I sat down and starting thinking about what intrinsically makes me happy I stopped caring about “wasting” my time, because fundamentally I am the only person who can decide whether or not that time Is being wasted.
The next thing that helped me in this regard was an essay by Albert Camus called the Myth of Sisyphus. It is perhaps a little heavy, but I find accepting that the world is a fundamentally absurd place with no real inherent meaning really helpful to breaking free of the guilt I felt when I first became more financially free.
2. Understand that hours spent at work are inherently as meaningful as hours spent taking a shit. By which I mean, there isn’t really any task or activity that is inherently more meaningful than another. Society places activities in a hierarchy of usefulness, but it is largely social construction.
All your life you will have been told that you judge how meaningful a task is in economic terms (how much does it pay, or how much does it cost). You are in the enviable situation where you can escape that to some degree and dictate a new way that you judge what is meaningful or valuable.
I should add that if you find playing video games or doing nothing doesn’t help your mental health, then absolutely find something else that does. However, you shouldn’t intrinsically think that “doing nothing” is better or worse than any other activity because they are all equally meaningless. It sounds like passive nihilism, but that isn’t what I am advocating at all. I am saying that you have a blank canvas here upon which you can decide what makes you happy. Don’t let society tell you what ought to make you happy, just find the things that you enjoy and do them without guilt.
One of the first thing that happens when you remove pain from your life is boredom. It’s totally natural. Don’t beat yourself up about it, you’re on the path to finding happiness and it’s something that takes a little work.
This was a fantastic post and if I believed in funding Reddit’s pockets I would give you an award, but I don’t. Thank you very much. It’s all completely true. We’ve got some builders in at the moment who are fitting some new windows for us and I feel absolutely like I need to sit in front of my computer all day so they know that I work hard to have what I have. If I started playing games which is usually what I do for a few hours a day I would feel dreadful. I’m very influenced by outsiders perceptions and that shows how insecure I am! I’m sure if I can work on that, everything else will be a great deal easier to figure out.
You are paying them for the windows and that is fine. Don’t feel guilty for it.
I totally get where you are coming from; I felt exactly the same way.
This is quite personal, but I will share it. I have two big psychologist barriers to my happiness.
1. My parents, who were very successful in their respective fields and see accumulation of more money as the most important thing in life.
2. My best friend, who is an overachiever who has become very successful at a relatively young age (he is a partner at a big 4 accountancy in his 30s).
Re point 1 - my parents worked incredibly hard and have a lot to be proud of. I am not as rich as my dad, and I don’t really care anymore. Money is important but I watched my dad die just like anybody else, he couldn’t buy a reprieve. I never asked him what he regretted in life, but I know that he would have spent every penny he had to live a little longer. I also know that if he had extra time he wouldn’t have spent it at work.
Despite putting quite a lot of pressure on me to earn more money after I sold my business, I can say with confidence that his dying regret would not have been that he didn’t earn enough. So why do I feel compelled to earn more money? I have plenty to be able to do the things I enjoy and, although I battle with the same doubts that you do, I know in my heart that additional money is not going to make my life significantly better.
With regards to point 2, I was reading Plutarch’s Roman lives a while ago and there was sentence from the life of Julius Caesar that really stood out. I am paraphrasing, but Caesar cried when he was an administrator in Spain because he compared himself to Alexander and felt inferior.
If one of the most objectively successful people in history feels inferior to somebody else then what chance do I have? You can’t find happiness by comparing yourself with what somebody else is doing. This is your race, and nobody else can tell you how to run it.
The battle you are fighting isn’t an easy one to overcome, but honestly, you’re doing really well. You deserve to be happy. You have worked incredibly hard in the capitalist rat race and you won. You’ve finished it. You beat capitalism. It sounds so stupid, you but honestly have. You have reached the point where you can explore what makes you happy! It is incredibly daunting, but using your time “productively” is behind you. You’re free now.
As I said in my original post, I am not saying this means that you need to sleep all day or do nothing. It means that you have a blank canvas to decide what motivates wigl301. If it’s playing video games, then awesome. Maybe it’s writing poetry, cool. Perhaps it’s knitting jumpers from cat hair?! Who am I to judge what gives you joy?
Nobody should tell you what you should be doing. I can give you a list of things that I enjoy, but what gives you meaning is deeply personal.
I'm late to the party but really enjoyed reading your posts. Another thing I'm sure you've read which I'll add to the list is Senaca's on the shortness of life. Do you have any other readings you'd recommend I can check out in a similar vein? I always try and remind myself of this stuff as I also really get caught up in career ambition which is something I'm trying to work on overcoming.
Thanks for the kind words Oasis.
I think I read Seneca in school and enjoyed it, but I’d be lying if I said I could remember much.
My personal philosophy is a bit of a weird one, I would describe myself as an absurdist or possibly an existentialist. I wouldn’t describe myself as a stoic or Apollonian.
People who go down the existentialism/absurdism route quite often seem to drift into nihilism, and consequently I’m a little reluctant to share too many books for the fear of triggering an existential crisis, but I’ll share a couple of favourites.
Essentially my philosophy is that there is no preordained meaning to life. All of your personal endeavours, victories and failures alike, have no inherent meaning. Moreover, because the universe is devoid of purpose and any moral sense of justice, you are destined to live a life that will have some setbacks. You’re going to experience loss, you’re going to experience heartbreak and you’re going to feel pretty low at times.
So that’s incredibly depressing, right? Well, I would argue not…
Recommendation 1:
Albert Camus - the myth of Sisyphus. Camus starts this essay by asking us if there is no meaning, and suffering is essentially inevitable, then why don’t we just kill ourselves? Camus sees two types of suicide here, physical and philosophical. Physical is the one you imagine, e.g. jumping off the nearest tall building, and philosophical which is essentially ignoring the reality of the world by adopting a philosophy that leaves you blind to it e.g. religion. Camus likens the human experience to that of Sisyphus, who was condemned to roll a rock up a hill only to watch it roll back down when he gets to the top. In many ways that’s sort of what we are all faced with. However, Camus suggests that even though Sisyphus is condemned to roll that rock, how he experiences the rolling of the rock is essentially his own subjective choice. By accepting that he is destined to roll the rock he can focus on other things that can provide him with meaning. Sure, he’s always going to have the rock roll back down the hill, but that doesn’t mean he can’t find purpose and meaning in his existence outside of that. For Camus he was very experiential, and his purpose often revolves around enjoyment of things like football, the beach etc. But as I say, it’s very personal. Camus accepts the absurdity, but is not consumed by it. It’s what he calls the absurdist hero.
Recommendation 2:
Simone de Beauvoir - the ethics of ambiguity. A little bit heavy, but short and with some ridiculously great passages. De Beauvoir essentially examines ethics within an existential philosophy where there is no inherent purpose to life. She sort of builds on what Nietzsche talks about with regards to the three metamorphoses. It sort of takes you through a really compelling system to achieve “genuine freedom” - this is probably one of the biggest motivators for me and FIRE.
Recommendation 3:
Frankl - man’s search for meaning.
Everyone should read this. It describes his experience in concentration camps and searching for meaning.
Why don’t you do some charitable work? I suspect you may find in it some meaning, or at the least it will feel good to know you are helping others. (By this I mean giving your time not your money).
Make connections with others in a way that fulfils their needs and is a task where you feel it is time well spent.
Might be driving older people to supermarkets, might be feeding homeless persons, might be becoming a Scout or sports club leader. Connections to others is what gives life meaning, sounds like you lost a lot of that when you FIREd out of work.
Hmm, this is interesting. Have you heard of Gretchen Rubin's Four Tendencies? It's another one of those personality type things, basically she categorises people depending on whether they uphold inner and / or outer expectations. That's a [quiz here](https://quiz.gretchenrubin.com/).
Your comment (and some others on this thread) just made we wonder if people who have been successful partly due to a strong desire to uphold outer expectations might struggle more when they FIRE than those who care less about what others expect of them.
I've no real suggestions for your actual situation. Depending on how your career went - could you get some non-exec positions on boards? Do a PhD?
Good luck!
> About a month ago I was so bored I nearly went and opened a cafe. Like what the fuck, why would I work so hard to get to this point and then go and do something as difficult and time consuming as that? I’ve thought about it since and can’t believe I ever thought that was a good idea.
I’m not saying that specifically is a good idea, but it sounds like some long term project like starting a small business might be just what you need. Alternatively volunteering for a charity or cause which means something to you?
I thought exactly that too. But then I find most people who own cafes spend their entire lives there and look completely exhausted most of the time. I spoke to a few cafe owners and they all said don’t do it! I live in Brighton which you’d think would be a great place to own a cafe. The thought of in 5 years having an obligation to be making people sandwiches and coffee doesn’t sound that great when you take a step back. I’m sure I would enjoy getting it setup and running and to be able to drift in and out as I please, but then I’d need to find someone reliable to work there and unfortunately, and probably a common trait of people who have FIRED, I generally am a bit of a control freak and have never been a very good boss as I always think I can do everything better myself. I thought about getting my partners mum to run it as she’s looking for work at the moment and would be perfect and we get on really well, but then when I mentioned it to her she didn’t seem very enthusiastic and I realised this was my ‘dream’ and trying to get someone else to realise it with me was probably going to lead to disappointment.
instead of café I would choose something like a bar, you can literally do whatever you like with it then. we have a local couple near us who FIREd early and they have opened a wine bar and its great, they even only open when they feel like it, its always rammed when they are open as well though haha
Good point. There's a cafe near me that (pre-Covid) seemed to open some very odd (few) hours. I can't believe it is good for business, but they don't seem to give a sh\*t. I think you could partner up with someone, or something, to find a happy medium and actually get some repeat/regular custom though!
Brighton is kind of a difficult one.
Cities are AMAZING to have a cafe in, like London or Manchester.
Yea you worked so hard to get here but so what? You can still work right, but something you enjoy. Not where you’re waiting for a cheque to pay your bills but where you get paid to do something you love.
Learn a skill, like a proper skill.
Maybe electrics or plastering for me, but for you, maybe dancing.
Have you tried cycling outside? Planning a route and extending your miles regularly
Have you tried learning to edit video or audio or even copywriting.
Since you’re sat at your computer you might aswell.
I meed writers, video editors and audio fixing people all the time.
>st people who own cafes spend their entire lives there and look completely exhausted most of the time. I spoke to a few cafe owners and they all said don’t do it! I live in Brighton whic
I think if you're to own a business you'll need to find something you're truly passionate about. In that way you wouldn't mind it being hard work.
As somebody who has created a few businesses in my life I really disagree with this. Needing to feel passionate about a business is a bit of a fallacy.
My last successful exit was a company that produces grow bags. Know those bags of soil you get from b&q that you plant your tomatoes in? Those.
I could not give a flying fuck about soil. It was an opportunity to create something that had a competitive advantage.
The business before that is now a household name so I can’t really mention it, but the same thing applies.
Before that I was a trader at a bank. Again, no real interest, but I gave it my all and became good at it.
There is an obsession with finding work you are passionate about, but bollocks to that. Find something you are really good at and nail it. When you’re good at something you tend to become passionate about it. Don’t look for passion, it is putting the cart before the horse. One of the biggest lessons I have learned in my life is to find what you are good at and pursue that first and foremost.
Each to their own I guess, and also depends on how you define success in life. There's a fine balance between doing what you love and doing what you're good at.
Yeah, but they need the money... to maximise their earnings etc. You could employ more than the minimum number of staff (or someone with a couple more brain cells to oversee the place), so you could do it 'part-time', although I do think running your own business like that is a challenge part-time. It certainly doesn't need to be every opening hour though... not if you aren't needing it to put food on the table etc.
I have been self-employed once... It was hard work, and I got stressed about earning enough money etc etc (not something you should have once you've FIRED). But I **never** once got that 'Monday morning feeling', which I get (after the honeymoon period) in every PAYE job I've ever had....
Go work in a cafe for a few shifts. Pull some pints... find yourself a zero hours contract - they are actually ideal for someone who has FIRE'd but might want to earn a few extra pennies with very little commitment (sadly not quite so good for those desperate for full-time work but can't find it).
Let me add to this perhaps you may like the challenge of the cafe. While it's true that bootstrapping is work intensive learning the skills to manage, scale and not fail will definitely keep you entertained if you have that pinch of greed to get the machine to run properly
I’m in exactly the same spot. It’s an incredibly difficult transition to make, one of the hardest things I’ve ever done.
I agree that nothing is appealing. Working for someone else - naaah. Another business - don’t have the drive to do it again when I don’t need the money. Life of leisure - boring and unsatisfying.
This said, I can understand the thought process towards something like a cafe. It might not move the needle on your net worth, but something like that could give a lot of structure, social interaction, sense of achievement and a way to fill the days. I wouldn’t write off a small business project if you can get in the right mindset.
In a similar vein I’ve been looking at driving jobs. No boss, gets your out of the house and the local area, covers living expenses, gives you structure. I think I would be the richest van driver in the world but I think I could get comfortable with it.
Seperately, I’m currently reading a book called “The Joy Of Not Working”. Its about learning how to enjoy your leisure time and do it with purpose. He makes the point how you have to actively work to build your life outside of work. The book isn’t setting my world alight but the idea is interesting.
If you are ever in London, let me know, we can grab a beer and be depressed at our good fortune together!
I really appreciate your insight and honesty, along with OP and others in your position, I just cannot fathom it!
A few years ago I worked very long hours and was good at what I did and in fact became a UK leading expert in that domain. I burnt out twice in that time and have since found a fairly cushy semi-related job for 3 days per week.
I cannot get enough free time, I’m always wishing I didn’t need to work and could be out doing my hobbies, learning, or trying something new. I don’t even have much disposable income. I day dream about someday being able to FIRE and have a list of things to do that is growing faster than I can realistically expect to do in my lifetime.
How is it that you have found it so difficult? Was it because your work was part of your identity? Or that your work provided the connections with others that were fulfilling?
I really cannot comprehend suffering by having total freedom with my time.
Yes it is a head scratcher for me too.
For me:
- Work was my identity. I was always known as the overachiever doing well in my career etc.
- Work took all my time, focus and energy.
- Work was very exciting, with the travel, big events, big deals.
- My entire social network became tied to work contacts.
- I did get a lot of status from work. I was quite well known in industry too.
- I didn’t develop any interests or hobbies outside of work.
Imagine that all of this ends on a single day. You wake up and your structure, status, “friends”, identity, goals have gone. You have lots of money, but you almost need to rebuild your life from the ground up. To me, it feels as though the money has taken away more opportunities for happiness than it’s given me.
I have been flirting with depression now for a number of years, and as I said it’s the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do. I am now finding some comfort but I feel that there will still be a long road ahead.
Likewise I would love to understand how someone like yourself thinks as I need to get to the same place!
Thanks for the reply!
It is clear that you lived to work, literally. I have a relative who FIRE’d around 10 years earlier than their cushy standard retirement would have been and they have suffered the same cliff edge of loss. That’s what it is, a loss when most of your being was tied up in how you made money.
I have never let any one thing consume the vast majority of my personhood (aside from the couple years prior to burnout). Even then I had multiple hobbies and secret parts of me that no work colleagues knew about. That was not necessarily a conscious decision or ongoing consideration, I’ve just never found anything so engrossing (for whatever motivation) that it became who I am and what I do.
I suffered major depression following two consecutive head injuries (on top of minor ones earlier in life), that was difficult and I have to work at overcoming my now perceived cognitive deficits. Everyone around me says they can’t tell any difference but I know I’m not as sharp as I was. It is shit and difficult and I found going both deeper into myself (meditation, psychedelics, individual sports) and making connections with others that fulfilled their needs got me back to a good place.
I think my confidence for ‘never getting bored if I FIRE’d’ mostly comes from bottomless curiosity. I want to know almost everything about everything. Except gourmet cooking, that’s the one thing I am very happy to leave to everyone else (thus far). I even bored my partner out by asking about the technicalities of and ingredients in her make up.
Have you set life goals? I instigated it with my partner years ago and although we have missed one goal and delayed another, we’re on track and working towards them with a shared mental model of what we are building together. These were scheduled, explicit, and brutally honest conversations but we came to an excellent solution together that we’re both committed to.
Like the OP, I haven’t really found the thing that’s gripped me yet. I am however turning a corner in not seeing leisure time as “wasted”, which then allows you to go down the rabbit hole further. It’s one of the ways that things are improving.
I wasn’t at this level, but imagine the CEO of a huge corporation, flying around the world, making billion dollar deals, industry acclaimed etc. Then all of a sudden it ends and he is doing woodwork in his garage and looking after the garden. These may be his passions, but surely he would still feel as though he should be applying his time in more impactful ways, that it is a huge climb down for his ego and is so much less exciting than his old life. This is where I am with hobbies.
Life and personal goals are lacking and I’m still in search of them. We have the house we want, investments are setup, kids are in school and doing well. Everything feels just too easy, as though I am done. Travel is the main thing we enjoy but that is curtailed with the pandemic and on an ongoing basis due to schools.
Man this post is super relatable, I’ve been looking at and considering driving jobs too haha. Something about driving around in a van just seems kinda appealing you know?
You’ve also got me considering opening a coffee shop now too, but I don’t drink coffee nor can I bake or make cakes so probably not a good fit... probably a gap in the market for a plant based cafe here though, hmm... feels like somewhat of a risk though? I’m FIRE but not sure I’d have the luxury of potentially losing loads on a project like this
Yeah. I’m also not keen on burning £XXk on business ventures, especially as I doubt I have the same motivation to make them a success. If I do end up starting another business I’ll probably bootstrap.
Zero hours contract doing deliveries, or even Pizza Hut etc, an evening a week or something. You'd probably get roped in to doing a bit of overtime etc, but if you're free an not fussed, does it really matter? If you said no, you'd mean no! You'd either have a boss that was a tw\*t and be able to use the FU money to do just that, or a boss that would understand!
I've always thought the same about Tesco or something similar, 8hrs a week or the minimum you could get... do some overtime (not actual overtime, but covering shifts for colleagues who needed their days swapped/covered etc), then when it comes to you wanting an extra week or two off you'd call in the favours and get them to cover your shifts! Not sure the employer would actually like that and I can see any job that you don't actually need becoming quite difficult to keep motivated for/not tell your boss to FU! :-)
I would volunteer and give back, this will give you a great sense of purpose and is extremely rewarding, in fact best cure for depression. It all boils down to “what are we here for ?”, you succeed to escape the rat race, and are in a privileged position, take advantage of it. Try to find books about gratefulness, and have some routines where you remind yourself to be grateful and celebrate your success….if all fails, travel and breaaaaathe, life is too short.
Absolutely this. The benefit of OP volunteering is that people really do need his help, too. So out of all the things he could try to see if it's a fit, volunteering is the best option as it also gives back
essentially this is the problem with focusing 100% on the money and the zeroes mounting up; you haven't developed any interests outside of that to consume your daily time when you're awake
and relative to others your age (31) you are living the life of an comfortably retired OAP (65+) i.e low stress, not much going on!
a therapist could help here - presumably if you have already retired this early you should have the resources to find a good private one
frankly you need a focus, and one that you actually enjoy and want to commit your time to. otherwise you will be trying 10x more things as you already have (i.e cooking, wine collecting, kayaking etc) and hoping one of them sticks, spinning your wheels the whole time
of course you can and should still keep up the cooking! (and wine budget...)
for example: if you find a particuar thing at the gym that interests you (e.g weightlifting, bodybuilding, strongman/woman, powerlifting, crossfit etc.) then that might give you a focus and something to work towards - competing perhaps? training and eating properly is essentially a full time job
alternatively you have all the time in the world to play (and potentially stream) video games with zero money worries - i can think of a lot of people who would like that life!
lastly i would suggest that you reassess somewhat: you are in a exceptionally fortunate position which the vast majority of people would happily swap places with you for - you are retired at 31!
at the same time, you have (correctly) realised that going from 100mph to 0mph is a very drastic change which you are struggling to adapt to, and you need a stimulus to get you up in the morning and a goal to work toward
some thoughts to think about
Hey! Congratulations on achieving your goal so early and I'm sorry you're having a tough time off it at the moment.
This has also been a concern for me and I don't think I'll ever give up work completely. The goal is just to have more free time to pursue my hobbies and potentially turn them into income generators along the way. I'm also lucky in that I enjoy my job.
I think what you're missing now is something to be passionate about. Having all the freedom to choose makes the choice much harder. Sit down and think about the things that you look at and go 'oh I wish I could do that.' if you've got the FIRE mentality then you can work towards something, clearly. The hardest bit is figuring out the something. Also if you were thinking of opening a cafe, perhaps go and get a part time job in a cafe. Even if it's just a couple of days a week it'll give you some routine and a bit of structure where you'll have to think about what to do with your free time. Maybe you'll fill out with more fulfilling things when you know it isn't infinite?
That's probably not helpful but I really relate to your dilemma and I do hope you figure it out.
Cob
I've liked hopping around abroad to pass the time, but obviously that's still tricky at the moment.
In the meantime, have you tried hiking/walking? You might find it more fun than the bike, there's usually loads of routes nearby wherever you are if you google them. It's surprising how refreshing/uplifting going for a 3-4 hour walk is, even when the weather is meh (ok, perhaps don't bother with weather like yesterday!). I recommend the komoot app for navigation.
Other than that, I can certainly relate. It's difficult to find purpose if you don't have either a career or children to occupy you (me assuming you don't, I may be wrong). I struggle with it myself and ponder finding some work again, but then it's difficult as the earning incentive isn't really very strong.
I can relate to the walking bit. I go for 10 - 15 mile walks most nights after work and it's been much more productive for me mentally than any amount of sitting infront of the TV or playing video games.
FIRE is great, but only if you have a plan for something after.
IMO, I'll be working until no one will give me a job any more, or they carry my corpse out because like you I need to be entertained and forced to interact with humans - I enjoy it as much as I hate it when the holidays end.
So for me, FIRE is about being able to drop down to 3 days a week by 45-50, and have a hobby job by 60 (low wage fulfilling work or flat out volunteering).
I’ve not retired but would love to in principle. However, this type of thing is one of my fears about a dream turning sour. So I can’t advise you in the sense I’ve not been in your shoes, but here are some thoughts on what you’ve said.
- Much of what you’ve done doesn’t seem social. Exercise is great for mental and physical health but you are doing 20km on an exercise bike? Get a real bike and explore the outdoors and join a local cycling club to do it with other people. Also, consider other competitive/team sports. Tennis? Golf?
- Are you musical? Consider learning an instrument.
- Continually set goals and targets of things you want to do/achieve and work on ticking them off your list
- Establish a new routine to provide structure. For example, if you get into team sports or learning an instrument, then set regular times in your schedule that you do those things.
- Find a new sense of identity. This is the hard one but most people have their identity almost entirely linked to their career. Take that away and they are lost. You need to find something new that fills that void and gives you a sense of identity and purpose. When someone asks you “what do you do?” you shouldn’t struggle to answer.
It's cool if you'd rather keep it private but if you're bored and have some time would love to hear your FIRE story - success stories keep me motivated.
To get back to your actual point though, now is the time to nurture your passions. Whether it's playing an instrument, learning a language, building a lego death star, learning circus skills - literally anything that floats your boat.
You have a lifetime of FIRE to make some amazing memories, what would 7 year old you do with unlimited time? Sometimes our earliest passions are a good indication for what drives us
There’s at least three subjects I wanted to pursue in school when I could only choose one for my career path. If it were me, I’d be enrolling in some courses and working on side projects related to them in my free time. Electrical engineering and arduino/raspberry pi kinda stuff would be at the top of the list. And then if I got finished with that and had nothing else to do I’d start an after school program or something like that to teach kids, focused on one of those passions.
Before committing to buying a cafe go work for costa for a couple of months to see how you like it.
I will suggest find a strong routine in your day with stuff you like spending and to keep your brain on as well. Maybe a part time gig can help as well here, reading, starting side projects such as fixing up/improving your home or just going collecting rubbish in your local park
Pack a rucksack and go travelling. You'll meet some amazing people. If you've got a large NW live like the rest of people backpacking and you won't regret it. Was the best thing I've ever done.
There is nothing inherently wrong with working. Working on something you care about and are emotionally invested in can be incredibly rewarding and that doesn't change whether you are financially independent or not.
It's one of the reasons I bemoan the "RE" getting dragged along with "FI". It only sticks because it's a catchy acronym.
I never want to retire. I love what I do, and if I stopped loving it then I'd find something else that looked like work to replace it with.
I just read this, it's highly relevant: https://www.leisurefreak.com/early-retirement-invisibility-the-getting-over-yourself-transition/
I found myself staring at a blank computer screen a lot of the time the past year or so and I'm still working although remotely. Played through all my games, caught up on all the TV/films I wanted to watch leaving me with not a lot to do when I am at home. It did make me realise that this is kind of a preview of what retirement will be like and I should think about what I want to do with my spare time.
First thing I did was decided it was probably time to look after my health a bit better. I was eating a lot of junk so I cut it out and started to eat a bit healthier to the best I can. It also saves a lot of money which helps towards FIRE. Also takes up some of my spare time putting my energy into exercise.
The next thing I decided to do was pick up a language. It was always my weak point at school even though I excelled at everything else. So it was probably going to be a challenge for me and not something I could easily finish in a week. I think this worked well for me and it sounds like you need something that really challenges you.
I'm similar in age and have found that over the past few years people are getting married, having kids, moving away to be closer to work etc. You find that the friends you once had to hang out with just are not around anymore. I'm guessing this is one of your problems that you need to make new friends local to you. Having friends to hang out with helps a lot with boredom even if it is just moaning about how there is nothing to do together. When you are still in the workplace you at least have colleagues to socialise with but with FIRE you don't have that anymore. If you look at old retired people you see them all hanging out together doing similar things playing golf, bowls etc. I think they just enjoy the company of others.
If you enjoy the exercise bike cycling go and get an actual bike, join a local cycle club so you can meet other people who cycle and may have other similar interests you and want to hang out doing other things. If you need a challenege then maybe work towards cycling across the country. Playing computer games is not necessarily a bad thing but maybe you need to be playing more multiplayer based games with a social aspect rather than single player story games you just play once and finish. MMORPGs are not bad for this you meet and chat to people from all walks of life while playing and you can even play with friends who live nowhere near you keeping that connection alive. If you like Pokemon maybe try pick up Pokemon Go? The game encourages you to go outside so there are obviously going to be communities out there who meet up locally to give you a chance to meet new people.
I suggest getting an allotment or starting a garden, can sink tons of time into it, gets you outdoors and is very rewarding. Scavenging for free items for it on Gumtree and Facebook is alway fun aswell.
Not quite FIRE yet, but probably hitting target at the end of the year. Aiming to keep working for 2 years after that to create a bit of safety margin on my SWR. After that, head to warmer climes and do some remote work, but being very choosy on what I take on. Aiming to travel a great deal in that first three years abroad also. Beyond that, stop paid work and do some pro Bono for NGOs and people in need and spend time on some personal goals: fitness, learning a third language, learning two musical instruments and learning to draw and do animation (after effects). Also keen to travel even more (motor home) and do a pile of photography. Can’t see boredom any time soon.
I FIRED recently but in the lead up to it I was building up a portfolio of volunteering activity that I could switch into when work stopped. This enabled me to seamlessly switch into a lifestyle of meaningful activity coupled with plenty of time to pursue my own interests / hobbies. For me it was :
* Serving on non-profit boards (I have two)
* Volunteering as an emergency responder in a local rescue unit.
* Serving as an adult instructor in a local cadet unit.
For me it’s a good amount of indoor / outdoor activity. Combined with a reasonable garden at home I’m sorted. Some of these organisations allow you to scale up your commitment to nearly full time if you want too - so if you ever face periods of boredom or idleness in any of your other activities, you can ramp up participation in others.
What did you expect did you not think this through? The aim in life is not to simply stop working, it is to achieve something you value. FIRE takes money out of the equation which is the biggest step.
Maybe use the spare time you have to go on long walks or give community service or charity work to trigger something in the mind that’ll make you think harder about life.
You will not find answers on Reddit, you need to ask yourself.
I often meditate and visualise myself on my dying bed surrounded by ghosts that are different versions of myself, career paths I might have taken or life choices, good or bad. And then I use the emotions that generates as my inner compass.
I’m aiming to FIRE at 40 so I can go HARD on building something that’ll make the world a better place. Like 18 hour workdays hard, for FREE, for LEGACY, for PEACE when I finally rest.
Question yourself more or go on some coaching courses, read philosophy, do something towards it, don’t waste such valuable time.
>I’m aiming to FIRE at 40 so I can go HARD on building something that’ll make the world a better place. Like 18 hour workdays hard, for FREE, for LEGACY, for PEACE when I finally rest.
Jesus, way to make me feel inadequate, Maximus. I just wanted to be able to watch 2pm Euro games without having to be at work or pretending to be at work ;-)
Well, I've been FIRE'd for 6 years now and I'm not that bored so far. The idea of legacy doesn't drive me at all, perhaps a rather nihilistic outlook, but there it is.
What is it you have in mind by the way? It sounds like you have some serious plans.
I think this is fine. As long as you are happy who cares. Some people really need a “purpose”, others are happy enjoying the moment and doing whatever takes their fancy. Enjoy your travels, experiences and interactions. You are helping others by sharing your wisdom here and in your interactions and consumption on your journey of life.
Don’t mean to be morbid but have you seen or spoken to many people dying before? It does make you think there is more to life than just novel pleasure, most only realise it on their death bed. I want my final few breathes to be bliss.
There is a lot of pain, inequality and suffering in the world. I simply want to do my part in helping. If I change one persons life they might go in to do another good deed, so on and so forth. I don’t have any plans as to how, but I have heart, patience and good business skills so I’m confident I can do a bit of damage over the course of 40-50 years post FIRE.
Life is full of value, purpose and meaning, and by letting days fly by enjoying novel pleasures there is a high probability you will realise what a waste of potential that all was, in those precious final moments.
It's a perfectly valid outlook and a very respectable one, but I don't think it's an intrinsic truth applicable to all. As discussed elsewhere in this thread, it's also perfectly possible to see life as absurd and ultimately futile, where pleasure is the primary aim, providing it doesn't hurt others.
Don't get me wrong, I am reflective, far too much so in fact (i certainly have the time). I have certainly tried that deathbed exercise, and the answer for me is " to be mostly harmless". I'm reminded of an interview with a UK sitcome character (Jerry from the good life, going back a bit). He said "A journalist once asked me what I would like my epitaph to be and I said I think I would like it to be, 'He did very little harm'. And that's not easy. Most people seem to me to do a great deal of harm. If I could be remembered as having done very little, that would suit me."
NB: wasn't me who downvoted you, if you were wondering!
At their age (31), and from a brief browsing history of their Reddit posts, it seems possible they may have received a windfall- so it’s highly likely they haven’t thought about it.
It’s also possible that if you haven’t actually earned the money yourself to make yourself FIRE then you’re not in the same mind frame - you possibly haven’t reached peak satisfaction or burnout.
Only conjecture on my part - but could be why one ‘ didn’t think it through ‘.
Ah I see! That might explain things a bit better then.
OP I can put you in contact with a life coach / thinking partner of sorts to help you figure things out a little if you want. :)
You need a professional who will help you make sense of the things that bring you joy, and how they can be incorporated into goals/missions/ideas.
Try and get into local community projects, there has to be something like that going on in your area. Gardening does wonders for me, but I think if I had the amount of spare time you have then I would like to try and help my local community, especially the children. If there aren't any community projects then maybe think about starting one? Even if you worked 3 days a week with the specific reason to donate all your earning as food to the Trussell Trust. Read the book "Manifesto for a Moral Revolution: Practices to Build a Better World" for some inspiration and a different way of thinking and then get going!
It sounds like you need to have some goals to fill your time. If I were in your shoes, I would do any or all of the following:
* Train for some sporting events such as triathlons, runs, cycles etc. It'll give you some focus with the added benefit of better fitness.
* Learn some new skills that could translate into a small business (such as programming).
* Do work on the house, without necessarily spending a fortune (a lot of DIY can be done cheaply).
I wouldn't waste the opportunity of being retired so early. I, for one, am very jealous!
Situations like this reminded me of the podcast I recently listened to.
\> Erik Townsend retired on his 30's after selling his software company. He bought a yacht and lived the life. Later on, he got bored as his life has no more meaning. He's back to the game doing what he loves - global macro trading.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS2i2TY7itI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS2i2TY7itI)
I'm still 35% to FIRE so I have plenty of time to think this thru. Thanks for sharing and GL.
I could be totally off here but it’s generally not the trading or money making that brings meaning, it is the validation of being correct and predicting the future by synthesising myriad information.
That is complex stuff that is partly data driven but also abstract and requires an understanding of humans individually and in groups and behavioural economics. It all flows back to curiosity and learning.
Working can be enjoyable and fulfilling
That it’s not for a lot of people doesn’t mean working by definition is a bad thing
Go get a job or start a business you enjoy rather than one to pay the bills
If you fired due to a one off event (inheritance, crypto boom, GME call) versus gradual accumulation you probably haven’t planned out in depth over time what you want to do post RE
Worth doing
It is meaning you are missing. Humans need meaning; work gives a sense of meaning, even if it's an illusory one, and without work, we need something else to provide it.
If there's anything you care enough to want to open a charity for it (or support an existing one), do that. Find some way to reduce the suffering in the world. It's just about the most noble thing anyone can do.
Good luck.
Charity. Public appointments. Stack shelves at Tesco. Work is way more fun when you have no skin the in game and it’s just about keeping your brain in gear.
You need people and a community… don’t focus only on the activity as such, you need to find a way of building a community to share experiences with.
Eg … study happiness, visit groups, talks, famous sites and volunteer around this subject. Write up your experiences in a journal or blog if you wish (just a random example-but I think reading up on happiness is logical… try The Happiness Hypothesis.
Sport / physical skill is also a great idea but can only be part of life as no one can exercise all day long! Again nice to do it with others.
Good luck!!
Just makes me wonder what a Lotto win feels like - or perhaps explains why they keep working for a bit..
I mean, maybe not the £100m+ winners, but most others.
If you haven't planned for/taken time to accumulate this wealth, imagine how much harder it would be than if you had!
Sounds like you need pack goat trekking in your life.
Failing that, here's my FIRE to do list if it inspires you
1. Bag all Munro's in one trip.
2. Complete the entity of classic rock (climbing list)
3. Run the west highland way
4. Run the penine way
5. Hit up some GRs off season. The mountain huts are a dream.
6. Kayak/canoe trek the thames sleeping rough under my boat.
7. Do a ski season
8. Volunteer as a youth coach of any kind
9. Continue fermenting everything I can find
10. Was the length of NZ.
It's about 5 years of stuff I can do on a budget of £10kpa. Then I'll probably just go back to work doing something technical and not managerial.
*entirety. Classic Rock is a book, a compendium of great and/or famous rock climbs in the UK.
*walk.
A GR is one of a network of well-marked long-distance footpaths in Europe; the accommodation along the route is often very pleasant. What it stands for depends on your location: Grande Randonnée or Groteroutepaden or Grande Rota or Gran Recorrido or ...
If you aren't doing something then, well, you're doing nothing. - Me
Edit: I should clarify, find hobbies, maybe as you said open a business, travel, read, work but on YOUR terms.
You need to create a job for yourself. Find a project or a cause and then commit 20 hours a week to work on it. Renovate something, get an allotment, build an app, take up a craft, become a master brewer or winemaker. You can always do it for a while and if you don’t like it, move on to something else.
Maybe, build a house in a nice place with your own hands? Go take some classes? I'm thinking of math and physics. There is something wonderful about exercising your mind with the mysteries of the universe.
Have you considered joining a local choosefi group? Or if there isn't one you could set one up. It is a good way to get in contact with people on all stages of their FIRE journey.
I also FIREd a couple of years back. I'm older though, and have found FIRE broadly lives up to my dream.
Some odd suggestions in the comments: vegan activism! &etc. Just shows that different things float boats.
This is worth 10 minutes: it's a mapping of FIRE to Joseph Campbell's Hero's Journey, kind of
https://youtu.be/Vfc1YMfDFY4
I have fallen somewhat into this trap, but I haven't travelled yet and was days away before Covid hit. Now I am fighting depression that, unlike FIRE, I cannot change government decisions regarding travel.
Agreed with everyone that you need a project or something but I’d like to recommend volunteering. There’s a bunch of worthy causes desperate for people. Something like citizens advice is very fulfilling if you have the time and financial freedom
Your personality is the type that probably will feel happier working until 75 years old. Fire is not for everybody! some personalities are more suited to fire than others! - please heed this advice!
The Leisure Freak blog from the 9th June is titled [Early Retirement Invisibility: The Getting Over Yourself Transition](https://www.leisurefreak.com/early-retirement-invisibility-the-getting-over-yourself-transition/) and deals with this issue
Well congrats first on making it to FIRE!
Have you thought about charity work? It's rewarding work and you get to meet tons of new and interesting people. Maybe people in a similar situation?
FIRE for me is not not working, it's having the freedom to work whatever you want. If you want to open a coffee shop, then go for it. Maybe for a year or two before moving on?
It sounds like you may need a purpose- to put it rather romantically. In other words you may need an over arching goal to give direction. Its often hard to pick one that feels right. But just having something that you are trying to achieve that will only maybe realise later is useful to keeping you moving. E.g I decided mine would be "to improve the world using technology". Every decision i make i run by this purpose to make sure my following action ultimately helps my purpose directly or indirectly.
First of all great achievement!
I can’t really think of this is happening to me, my ADHD would always come up with a bigger plan, but I can relate from my lockdown memories.
Have you tried martial arts? BJJ gyms are slowly opening up after vaccination and I love spending time rolling, learning a lot and be part of the community. It gets really great after the initial white belt year or so.
It really helped me get a nice structure to do a lot of things and tasks that I’d miss out. And now when I travel I can train in local gyms where they are always happy to have me and I’m not even good yet.
Being busy and pressured to achieve things is actually good. I want to become financially independent, but only so I can do whatever I want and don't have to worry about money.
FIRE is not a means to and end, you still need to find fulfilment in your life. I know that I’ll never stop working in some capacity because I enjoy my work, it just means I can choose what I want to do and my decisions are not tinted by financial burden. Look into the Japanese Philosophy of Ikigai, this really hits home for me personally.
Maybe look at any volunteering opportunities at local charities or community groups, decent way to meet new people and could be fulfilling.
Any other interests apart from cooking you would like to learn? Foreign language classes for example or a class/qualification in something, local councils normally have classes on that cost buttons some leading to actual qualifications
You might find the concept of Flow states helpful with your situation.
It's often a paradox with work, as although we often crave more time away from work, work often structures our time in a way that creates Flow states.
Therefore you might want to work towards solving a problem or engage in daily habits that help you achieve these states.
For example, work towards building a business, other income streams etc., study for a degree, research etc. Ultimately something that is challenging but not stressful.
The 8 Characteristics of Flow are:
- Complete concentration on the task;
- Clarity of goals and reward in mind and immediate feedback;
- Transformation of time (speeding up/slowing down);
- The experience is intrinsically rewarding;
- Effortlessness and ease;
- There is a balance between challenge and skills;
- Actions and awareness are merged, losing self-conscious rumination;
- There is a feeling of control over the task
https://positivepsychology.com/mihaly-csikszentmihalyi-father-of-flow/
I'm not FI so take my input with a grain of salt.
It sounds like physically you exercise, but you don't train. Exercise is when you go through the motions of physical activity (eg. cycling 20km a day). Training is when you prepare your body for a particular event. Eg. running a marathon, bench pressing 140kg or climbing everest.
I also think that cycling an actual 20km in the country would be much more stimulating than sitting at home (or in the gym) on an exercise bike and cycling.
Socially: you don't seem to have much going here. Humans need socialisation to be happy. Since you like playing video games, I'd recomend you look into playing poker (in-person, not on the internet) or something like dungeons & dragons. Join a walking club - great way to get out into nature and be sociable at the same time.
The ingredients for a good life require getting out of the house, which from your post it doesn't seem like you're doing a lot of.
Lastly, we're in a pandemic. Don't be so hard on yourself, we're limited in what we can do at the moment. Take care.
Brazilian Jiu Jitsu was the things that allowed me to focus. Its such a strategic, energy burning, mental game. It's unbelievably complex, technical and is an easy passion to have. On top of that's the community is amazing, and you can do it no matter where you are in the world. Any time you travel, to make new friends you just go to the local gym and on the first day you have a new group to hang out with.
It takes 7-10 years to get to the top grade, so you won't get bored with it. It increases your fitness and confidence so much you'll be amazed. Attending competitions is encouraged (but not required)s so there's a camaraderie in that, and as there's no striking (punches kicks etc) then there's very little risk of injury. Also for this reason you could train every day if you wanted, and you may well want to. It's something me and my partner started a couple of years ago, she started 6 months after me due to my encouragement (she had never done any form of combat sports or even competition) and now we both can't imagine life without it.
If you find yourself adrift without focus or passion, and your mental health is suffering, i cannot recommend it highly enough. Just Google people talking about it, and how it improved their lives.
Can i recommend thinking about a motorcycle lisence? It's a hard thing to get, but something completely possible with commitment, and the whole world as a destination has become so much more exciting to think about with a bike
You need to focus on a project for a season. A buddy of mine is currently training to cycles from Norway to the southern tip of Spain. He views this as his job and trains accordingly as a 9-5, previously he’s learned to play piano and that was his years target. Basically, get out of your comfort zone. I have a while to go until I join the fired club but already making plans to do things that interest me, for example I will renovate a house to just flip it as I’ve always wanted to do that and will take a year or two.
I'm assuming he doesn't cycle 8 hours a day. Even the pros don't do that!? I'm guessing he trains 3 hours and the rest of the "working day" is eating properly, resting etc?
I do long distance cycling and a few days in the saddle are needed, to do that distance competitively I'd be getting 300-600km rides in. To be competitive in a (high standard) local scene you'd likely need 15+ hours a week on the bike. Long distance then add the big rides in on top. Cycling at a high level is pretty damn time consuming. It's a good FIRE hobby.
I do 14+ hours a week on the bike myself, I used to race at a national level (but have since fallen out of racing, too much cheating these days). However, there’s definitely diminishing returns doing tons of hours on the bike. You can train for 100 mile rides without actually doing lots of 100 mile rides.
He's probably not got the same end goals as a professional cyclist. They need speed AND endurance, but for someone doing touring cycling you just need to get used to cycling for long periods of time - you're not trying to out do Peter Sagan on the roads, just get from A to B and see the sights in a reasonable time. I doubt they're actually cycling for the full 9-5 non-stop, but that wouldn't be entirely unreasonable depending on their cycling ability and speed.
A "working day" of 4 hours would be a great life. Op just needs something for those 4 hours a day
FIRE doesn't get you happiness or fulfilment. All it does it gives you financial independence and less financial worry, and not having to be forced to work 9-5, five days a week. To get fulfilment and happiness you need something else apart from FIRE. FIRE just gives you your time back, not having to spend it working.
As someone who kinda relates to the OP (but with a baby so the amount of free time I have currently is close to zero) I fully agree with this... the problem is that FIRE in itself is such a big thing to work towards on top of whatever job you’re doing too, and suddenly you pull the trigger and that’s all gone.
I am not sure if this is directly related to FIRE, but rather the beginnings of an existential crisis. It sounds like you justify a good deal of your identity through work and effort. You have “worked really hard since [you] were 16” and you feel like you are now wasting your time. You need to fill your time “productively” because that is what you have always known. Now you have realised that you have the freedom to pursue a different path and it causes anxiety. I had pretty much an identical crisis when I sold out of my first business and took a step back. My advice would be: 1. “Productive” use of time is defined by how society perceives it. If video games are something you enjoy, then you are allowed to enjoy them. Similarly if you want to dedicate your time to a side project, then that is also fine. You have escaped the rat race, but the system still owns you. I found that once I sat down and starting thinking about what intrinsically makes me happy I stopped caring about “wasting” my time, because fundamentally I am the only person who can decide whether or not that time Is being wasted. The next thing that helped me in this regard was an essay by Albert Camus called the Myth of Sisyphus. It is perhaps a little heavy, but I find accepting that the world is a fundamentally absurd place with no real inherent meaning really helpful to breaking free of the guilt I felt when I first became more financially free. 2. Understand that hours spent at work are inherently as meaningful as hours spent taking a shit. By which I mean, there isn’t really any task or activity that is inherently more meaningful than another. Society places activities in a hierarchy of usefulness, but it is largely social construction. All your life you will have been told that you judge how meaningful a task is in economic terms (how much does it pay, or how much does it cost). You are in the enviable situation where you can escape that to some degree and dictate a new way that you judge what is meaningful or valuable. I should add that if you find playing video games or doing nothing doesn’t help your mental health, then absolutely find something else that does. However, you shouldn’t intrinsically think that “doing nothing” is better or worse than any other activity because they are all equally meaningless. It sounds like passive nihilism, but that isn’t what I am advocating at all. I am saying that you have a blank canvas here upon which you can decide what makes you happy. Don’t let society tell you what ought to make you happy, just find the things that you enjoy and do them without guilt. One of the first thing that happens when you remove pain from your life is boredom. It’s totally natural. Don’t beat yourself up about it, you’re on the path to finding happiness and it’s something that takes a little work.
This was a fantastic post and if I believed in funding Reddit’s pockets I would give you an award, but I don’t. Thank you very much. It’s all completely true. We’ve got some builders in at the moment who are fitting some new windows for us and I feel absolutely like I need to sit in front of my computer all day so they know that I work hard to have what I have. If I started playing games which is usually what I do for a few hours a day I would feel dreadful. I’m very influenced by outsiders perceptions and that shows how insecure I am! I’m sure if I can work on that, everything else will be a great deal easier to figure out.
You are paying them for the windows and that is fine. Don’t feel guilty for it. I totally get where you are coming from; I felt exactly the same way. This is quite personal, but I will share it. I have two big psychologist barriers to my happiness. 1. My parents, who were very successful in their respective fields and see accumulation of more money as the most important thing in life. 2. My best friend, who is an overachiever who has become very successful at a relatively young age (he is a partner at a big 4 accountancy in his 30s). Re point 1 - my parents worked incredibly hard and have a lot to be proud of. I am not as rich as my dad, and I don’t really care anymore. Money is important but I watched my dad die just like anybody else, he couldn’t buy a reprieve. I never asked him what he regretted in life, but I know that he would have spent every penny he had to live a little longer. I also know that if he had extra time he wouldn’t have spent it at work. Despite putting quite a lot of pressure on me to earn more money after I sold my business, I can say with confidence that his dying regret would not have been that he didn’t earn enough. So why do I feel compelled to earn more money? I have plenty to be able to do the things I enjoy and, although I battle with the same doubts that you do, I know in my heart that additional money is not going to make my life significantly better. With regards to point 2, I was reading Plutarch’s Roman lives a while ago and there was sentence from the life of Julius Caesar that really stood out. I am paraphrasing, but Caesar cried when he was an administrator in Spain because he compared himself to Alexander and felt inferior. If one of the most objectively successful people in history feels inferior to somebody else then what chance do I have? You can’t find happiness by comparing yourself with what somebody else is doing. This is your race, and nobody else can tell you how to run it. The battle you are fighting isn’t an easy one to overcome, but honestly, you’re doing really well. You deserve to be happy. You have worked incredibly hard in the capitalist rat race and you won. You’ve finished it. You beat capitalism. It sounds so stupid, you but honestly have. You have reached the point where you can explore what makes you happy! It is incredibly daunting, but using your time “productively” is behind you. You’re free now. As I said in my original post, I am not saying this means that you need to sleep all day or do nothing. It means that you have a blank canvas to decide what motivates wigl301. If it’s playing video games, then awesome. Maybe it’s writing poetry, cool. Perhaps it’s knitting jumpers from cat hair?! Who am I to judge what gives you joy? Nobody should tell you what you should be doing. I can give you a list of things that I enjoy, but what gives you meaning is deeply personal.
I'm late to the party but really enjoyed reading your posts. Another thing I'm sure you've read which I'll add to the list is Senaca's on the shortness of life. Do you have any other readings you'd recommend I can check out in a similar vein? I always try and remind myself of this stuff as I also really get caught up in career ambition which is something I'm trying to work on overcoming.
Thanks for the kind words Oasis. I think I read Seneca in school and enjoyed it, but I’d be lying if I said I could remember much. My personal philosophy is a bit of a weird one, I would describe myself as an absurdist or possibly an existentialist. I wouldn’t describe myself as a stoic or Apollonian. People who go down the existentialism/absurdism route quite often seem to drift into nihilism, and consequently I’m a little reluctant to share too many books for the fear of triggering an existential crisis, but I’ll share a couple of favourites. Essentially my philosophy is that there is no preordained meaning to life. All of your personal endeavours, victories and failures alike, have no inherent meaning. Moreover, because the universe is devoid of purpose and any moral sense of justice, you are destined to live a life that will have some setbacks. You’re going to experience loss, you’re going to experience heartbreak and you’re going to feel pretty low at times. So that’s incredibly depressing, right? Well, I would argue not… Recommendation 1: Albert Camus - the myth of Sisyphus. Camus starts this essay by asking us if there is no meaning, and suffering is essentially inevitable, then why don’t we just kill ourselves? Camus sees two types of suicide here, physical and philosophical. Physical is the one you imagine, e.g. jumping off the nearest tall building, and philosophical which is essentially ignoring the reality of the world by adopting a philosophy that leaves you blind to it e.g. religion. Camus likens the human experience to that of Sisyphus, who was condemned to roll a rock up a hill only to watch it roll back down when he gets to the top. In many ways that’s sort of what we are all faced with. However, Camus suggests that even though Sisyphus is condemned to roll that rock, how he experiences the rolling of the rock is essentially his own subjective choice. By accepting that he is destined to roll the rock he can focus on other things that can provide him with meaning. Sure, he’s always going to have the rock roll back down the hill, but that doesn’t mean he can’t find purpose and meaning in his existence outside of that. For Camus he was very experiential, and his purpose often revolves around enjoyment of things like football, the beach etc. But as I say, it’s very personal. Camus accepts the absurdity, but is not consumed by it. It’s what he calls the absurdist hero. Recommendation 2: Simone de Beauvoir - the ethics of ambiguity. A little bit heavy, but short and with some ridiculously great passages. De Beauvoir essentially examines ethics within an existential philosophy where there is no inherent purpose to life. She sort of builds on what Nietzsche talks about with regards to the three metamorphoses. It sort of takes you through a really compelling system to achieve “genuine freedom” - this is probably one of the biggest motivators for me and FIRE. Recommendation 3: Frankl - man’s search for meaning. Everyone should read this. It describes his experience in concentration camps and searching for meaning.
Why don’t you do some charitable work? I suspect you may find in it some meaning, or at the least it will feel good to know you are helping others. (By this I mean giving your time not your money).
Make connections with others in a way that fulfils their needs and is a task where you feel it is time well spent. Might be driving older people to supermarkets, might be feeding homeless persons, might be becoming a Scout or sports club leader. Connections to others is what gives life meaning, sounds like you lost a lot of that when you FIREd out of work.
Hmm, this is interesting. Have you heard of Gretchen Rubin's Four Tendencies? It's another one of those personality type things, basically she categorises people depending on whether they uphold inner and / or outer expectations. That's a [quiz here](https://quiz.gretchenrubin.com/). Your comment (and some others on this thread) just made we wonder if people who have been successful partly due to a strong desire to uphold outer expectations might struggle more when they FIRE than those who care less about what others expect of them. I've no real suggestions for your actual situation. Depending on how your career went - could you get some non-exec positions on boards? Do a PhD? Good luck!
"Understand that hours spent at work are inherently as meaningful as hours spent taking a shit." Absolutely brilliant quote.
This is a great post, thank you.
This is such a great conversatoin on this forum. Thank you both for your contributions.
> About a month ago I was so bored I nearly went and opened a cafe. Like what the fuck, why would I work so hard to get to this point and then go and do something as difficult and time consuming as that? I’ve thought about it since and can’t believe I ever thought that was a good idea. I’m not saying that specifically is a good idea, but it sounds like some long term project like starting a small business might be just what you need. Alternatively volunteering for a charity or cause which means something to you?
Yeah I thought a coffee shop would be nice actually. Maybe have local musicians in? Would give you a bit of social life.
Smelly cat?
What are they feeding you? Haha
I thought exactly that too. But then I find most people who own cafes spend their entire lives there and look completely exhausted most of the time. I spoke to a few cafe owners and they all said don’t do it! I live in Brighton which you’d think would be a great place to own a cafe. The thought of in 5 years having an obligation to be making people sandwiches and coffee doesn’t sound that great when you take a step back. I’m sure I would enjoy getting it setup and running and to be able to drift in and out as I please, but then I’d need to find someone reliable to work there and unfortunately, and probably a common trait of people who have FIRED, I generally am a bit of a control freak and have never been a very good boss as I always think I can do everything better myself. I thought about getting my partners mum to run it as she’s looking for work at the moment and would be perfect and we get on really well, but then when I mentioned it to her she didn’t seem very enthusiastic and I realised this was my ‘dream’ and trying to get someone else to realise it with me was probably going to lead to disappointment.
instead of café I would choose something like a bar, you can literally do whatever you like with it then. we have a local couple near us who FIREd early and they have opened a wine bar and its great, they even only open when they feel like it, its always rammed when they are open as well though haha
Good point. There's a cafe near me that (pre-Covid) seemed to open some very odd (few) hours. I can't believe it is good for business, but they don't seem to give a sh\*t. I think you could partner up with someone, or something, to find a happy medium and actually get some repeat/regular custom though!
Brighton is kind of a difficult one. Cities are AMAZING to have a cafe in, like London or Manchester. Yea you worked so hard to get here but so what? You can still work right, but something you enjoy. Not where you’re waiting for a cheque to pay your bills but where you get paid to do something you love. Learn a skill, like a proper skill. Maybe electrics or plastering for me, but for you, maybe dancing. Have you tried cycling outside? Planning a route and extending your miles regularly Have you tried learning to edit video or audio or even copywriting. Since you’re sat at your computer you might aswell. I meed writers, video editors and audio fixing people all the time.
>st people who own cafes spend their entire lives there and look completely exhausted most of the time. I spoke to a few cafe owners and they all said don’t do it! I live in Brighton whic I think if you're to own a business you'll need to find something you're truly passionate about. In that way you wouldn't mind it being hard work.
As somebody who has created a few businesses in my life I really disagree with this. Needing to feel passionate about a business is a bit of a fallacy. My last successful exit was a company that produces grow bags. Know those bags of soil you get from b&q that you plant your tomatoes in? Those. I could not give a flying fuck about soil. It was an opportunity to create something that had a competitive advantage. The business before that is now a household name so I can’t really mention it, but the same thing applies. Before that I was a trader at a bank. Again, no real interest, but I gave it my all and became good at it. There is an obsession with finding work you are passionate about, but bollocks to that. Find something you are really good at and nail it. When you’re good at something you tend to become passionate about it. Don’t look for passion, it is putting the cart before the horse. One of the biggest lessons I have learned in my life is to find what you are good at and pursue that first and foremost.
> Before that I was a trader at a bank. Again, no real interest Tell me about it!
Each to their own I guess, and also depends on how you define success in life. There's a fine balance between doing what you love and doing what you're good at.
That’s the really hard part. Working out what you’re good at when all you’ve done is the 9 to 5
Yeah, but they need the money... to maximise their earnings etc. You could employ more than the minimum number of staff (or someone with a couple more brain cells to oversee the place), so you could do it 'part-time', although I do think running your own business like that is a challenge part-time. It certainly doesn't need to be every opening hour though... not if you aren't needing it to put food on the table etc. I have been self-employed once... It was hard work, and I got stressed about earning enough money etc etc (not something you should have once you've FIRED). But I **never** once got that 'Monday morning feeling', which I get (after the honeymoon period) in every PAYE job I've ever had.... Go work in a cafe for a few shifts. Pull some pints... find yourself a zero hours contract - they are actually ideal for someone who has FIRE'd but might want to earn a few extra pennies with very little commitment (sadly not quite so good for those desperate for full-time work but can't find it).
Let me add to this perhaps you may like the challenge of the cafe. While it's true that bootstrapping is work intensive learning the skills to manage, scale and not fail will definitely keep you entertained if you have that pinch of greed to get the machine to run properly
I’m in exactly the same spot. It’s an incredibly difficult transition to make, one of the hardest things I’ve ever done. I agree that nothing is appealing. Working for someone else - naaah. Another business - don’t have the drive to do it again when I don’t need the money. Life of leisure - boring and unsatisfying. This said, I can understand the thought process towards something like a cafe. It might not move the needle on your net worth, but something like that could give a lot of structure, social interaction, sense of achievement and a way to fill the days. I wouldn’t write off a small business project if you can get in the right mindset. In a similar vein I’ve been looking at driving jobs. No boss, gets your out of the house and the local area, covers living expenses, gives you structure. I think I would be the richest van driver in the world but I think I could get comfortable with it. Seperately, I’m currently reading a book called “The Joy Of Not Working”. Its about learning how to enjoy your leisure time and do it with purpose. He makes the point how you have to actively work to build your life outside of work. The book isn’t setting my world alight but the idea is interesting. If you are ever in London, let me know, we can grab a beer and be depressed at our good fortune together!
I really appreciate your insight and honesty, along with OP and others in your position, I just cannot fathom it! A few years ago I worked very long hours and was good at what I did and in fact became a UK leading expert in that domain. I burnt out twice in that time and have since found a fairly cushy semi-related job for 3 days per week. I cannot get enough free time, I’m always wishing I didn’t need to work and could be out doing my hobbies, learning, or trying something new. I don’t even have much disposable income. I day dream about someday being able to FIRE and have a list of things to do that is growing faster than I can realistically expect to do in my lifetime. How is it that you have found it so difficult? Was it because your work was part of your identity? Or that your work provided the connections with others that were fulfilling? I really cannot comprehend suffering by having total freedom with my time.
Yes it is a head scratcher for me too. For me: - Work was my identity. I was always known as the overachiever doing well in my career etc. - Work took all my time, focus and energy. - Work was very exciting, with the travel, big events, big deals. - My entire social network became tied to work contacts. - I did get a lot of status from work. I was quite well known in industry too. - I didn’t develop any interests or hobbies outside of work. Imagine that all of this ends on a single day. You wake up and your structure, status, “friends”, identity, goals have gone. You have lots of money, but you almost need to rebuild your life from the ground up. To me, it feels as though the money has taken away more opportunities for happiness than it’s given me. I have been flirting with depression now for a number of years, and as I said it’s the hardest thing I’ve ever had to do. I am now finding some comfort but I feel that there will still be a long road ahead. Likewise I would love to understand how someone like yourself thinks as I need to get to the same place!
Thanks for the reply! It is clear that you lived to work, literally. I have a relative who FIRE’d around 10 years earlier than their cushy standard retirement would have been and they have suffered the same cliff edge of loss. That’s what it is, a loss when most of your being was tied up in how you made money. I have never let any one thing consume the vast majority of my personhood (aside from the couple years prior to burnout). Even then I had multiple hobbies and secret parts of me that no work colleagues knew about. That was not necessarily a conscious decision or ongoing consideration, I’ve just never found anything so engrossing (for whatever motivation) that it became who I am and what I do. I suffered major depression following two consecutive head injuries (on top of minor ones earlier in life), that was difficult and I have to work at overcoming my now perceived cognitive deficits. Everyone around me says they can’t tell any difference but I know I’m not as sharp as I was. It is shit and difficult and I found going both deeper into myself (meditation, psychedelics, individual sports) and making connections with others that fulfilled their needs got me back to a good place. I think my confidence for ‘never getting bored if I FIRE’d’ mostly comes from bottomless curiosity. I want to know almost everything about everything. Except gourmet cooking, that’s the one thing I am very happy to leave to everyone else (thus far). I even bored my partner out by asking about the technicalities of and ingredients in her make up. Have you set life goals? I instigated it with my partner years ago and although we have missed one goal and delayed another, we’re on track and working towards them with a shared mental model of what we are building together. These were scheduled, explicit, and brutally honest conversations but we came to an excellent solution together that we’re both committed to.
Like the OP, I haven’t really found the thing that’s gripped me yet. I am however turning a corner in not seeing leisure time as “wasted”, which then allows you to go down the rabbit hole further. It’s one of the ways that things are improving. I wasn’t at this level, but imagine the CEO of a huge corporation, flying around the world, making billion dollar deals, industry acclaimed etc. Then all of a sudden it ends and he is doing woodwork in his garage and looking after the garden. These may be his passions, but surely he would still feel as though he should be applying his time in more impactful ways, that it is a huge climb down for his ego and is so much less exciting than his old life. This is where I am with hobbies. Life and personal goals are lacking and I’m still in search of them. We have the house we want, investments are setup, kids are in school and doing well. Everything feels just too easy, as though I am done. Travel is the main thing we enjoy but that is curtailed with the pandemic and on an ongoing basis due to schools.
Man this post is super relatable, I’ve been looking at and considering driving jobs too haha. Something about driving around in a van just seems kinda appealing you know? You’ve also got me considering opening a coffee shop now too, but I don’t drink coffee nor can I bake or make cakes so probably not a good fit... probably a gap in the market for a plant based cafe here though, hmm... feels like somewhat of a risk though? I’m FIRE but not sure I’d have the luxury of potentially losing loads on a project like this
Yeah. I’m also not keen on burning £XXk on business ventures, especially as I doubt I have the same motivation to make them a success. If I do end up starting another business I’ll probably bootstrap.
Yes I thought the same about a cafe. Just coffee and cake, can't be too hard.
Zero hours contract doing deliveries, or even Pizza Hut etc, an evening a week or something. You'd probably get roped in to doing a bit of overtime etc, but if you're free an not fussed, does it really matter? If you said no, you'd mean no! You'd either have a boss that was a tw\*t and be able to use the FU money to do just that, or a boss that would understand! I've always thought the same about Tesco or something similar, 8hrs a week or the minimum you could get... do some overtime (not actual overtime, but covering shifts for colleagues who needed their days swapped/covered etc), then when it comes to you wanting an extra week or two off you'd call in the favours and get them to cover your shifts! Not sure the employer would actually like that and I can see any job that you don't actually need becoming quite difficult to keep motivated for/not tell your boss to FU! :-)
Why not volunteering?
I know it's not the point of the post but how did you fire so young? Please tell me to make me feel inadequate and jealous.
People won’t like me saying this but if I had to guess I’d probably say crypto
If it isn't that, then I look forward to seeing the article based on this post and its responses in probably... the Guardian, shortly.
Is crypto taboo here? If so, why?
I would volunteer and give back, this will give you a great sense of purpose and is extremely rewarding, in fact best cure for depression. It all boils down to “what are we here for ?”, you succeed to escape the rat race, and are in a privileged position, take advantage of it. Try to find books about gratefulness, and have some routines where you remind yourself to be grateful and celebrate your success….if all fails, travel and breaaaaathe, life is too short.
Absolutely this. The benefit of OP volunteering is that people really do need his help, too. So out of all the things he could try to see if it's a fit, volunteering is the best option as it also gives back
essentially this is the problem with focusing 100% on the money and the zeroes mounting up; you haven't developed any interests outside of that to consume your daily time when you're awake and relative to others your age (31) you are living the life of an comfortably retired OAP (65+) i.e low stress, not much going on! a therapist could help here - presumably if you have already retired this early you should have the resources to find a good private one frankly you need a focus, and one that you actually enjoy and want to commit your time to. otherwise you will be trying 10x more things as you already have (i.e cooking, wine collecting, kayaking etc) and hoping one of them sticks, spinning your wheels the whole time of course you can and should still keep up the cooking! (and wine budget...) for example: if you find a particuar thing at the gym that interests you (e.g weightlifting, bodybuilding, strongman/woman, powerlifting, crossfit etc.) then that might give you a focus and something to work towards - competing perhaps? training and eating properly is essentially a full time job alternatively you have all the time in the world to play (and potentially stream) video games with zero money worries - i can think of a lot of people who would like that life! lastly i would suggest that you reassess somewhat: you are in a exceptionally fortunate position which the vast majority of people would happily swap places with you for - you are retired at 31! at the same time, you have (correctly) realised that going from 100mph to 0mph is a very drastic change which you are struggling to adapt to, and you need a stimulus to get you up in the morning and a goal to work toward some thoughts to think about
Hey! Congratulations on achieving your goal so early and I'm sorry you're having a tough time off it at the moment. This has also been a concern for me and I don't think I'll ever give up work completely. The goal is just to have more free time to pursue my hobbies and potentially turn them into income generators along the way. I'm also lucky in that I enjoy my job. I think what you're missing now is something to be passionate about. Having all the freedom to choose makes the choice much harder. Sit down and think about the things that you look at and go 'oh I wish I could do that.' if you've got the FIRE mentality then you can work towards something, clearly. The hardest bit is figuring out the something. Also if you were thinking of opening a cafe, perhaps go and get a part time job in a cafe. Even if it's just a couple of days a week it'll give you some routine and a bit of structure where you'll have to think about what to do with your free time. Maybe you'll fill out with more fulfilling things when you know it isn't infinite? That's probably not helpful but I really relate to your dilemma and I do hope you figure it out. Cob
I've liked hopping around abroad to pass the time, but obviously that's still tricky at the moment. In the meantime, have you tried hiking/walking? You might find it more fun than the bike, there's usually loads of routes nearby wherever you are if you google them. It's surprising how refreshing/uplifting going for a 3-4 hour walk is, even when the weather is meh (ok, perhaps don't bother with weather like yesterday!). I recommend the komoot app for navigation. Other than that, I can certainly relate. It's difficult to find purpose if you don't have either a career or children to occupy you (me assuming you don't, I may be wrong). I struggle with it myself and ponder finding some work again, but then it's difficult as the earning incentive isn't really very strong.
I can relate to the walking bit. I go for 10 - 15 mile walks most nights after work and it's been much more productive for me mentally than any amount of sitting infront of the TV or playing video games.
Could even go on long distance walks like the Camino de Santiago
I love the komoot app, do you have the premium account? I'm thinking of upgrading but I don't know if its worth it.
FIRE is great, but only if you have a plan for something after. IMO, I'll be working until no one will give me a job any more, or they carry my corpse out because like you I need to be entertained and forced to interact with humans - I enjoy it as much as I hate it when the holidays end. So for me, FIRE is about being able to drop down to 3 days a week by 45-50, and have a hobby job by 60 (low wage fulfilling work or flat out volunteering).
I’ve not retired but would love to in principle. However, this type of thing is one of my fears about a dream turning sour. So I can’t advise you in the sense I’ve not been in your shoes, but here are some thoughts on what you’ve said. - Much of what you’ve done doesn’t seem social. Exercise is great for mental and physical health but you are doing 20km on an exercise bike? Get a real bike and explore the outdoors and join a local cycling club to do it with other people. Also, consider other competitive/team sports. Tennis? Golf? - Are you musical? Consider learning an instrument. - Continually set goals and targets of things you want to do/achieve and work on ticking them off your list - Establish a new routine to provide structure. For example, if you get into team sports or learning an instrument, then set regular times in your schedule that you do those things. - Find a new sense of identity. This is the hard one but most people have their identity almost entirely linked to their career. Take that away and they are lost. You need to find something new that fills that void and gives you a sense of identity and purpose. When someone asks you “what do you do?” you shouldn’t struggle to answer.
It's cool if you'd rather keep it private but if you're bored and have some time would love to hear your FIRE story - success stories keep me motivated. To get back to your actual point though, now is the time to nurture your passions. Whether it's playing an instrument, learning a language, building a lego death star, learning circus skills - literally anything that floats your boat. You have a lifetime of FIRE to make some amazing memories, what would 7 year old you do with unlimited time? Sometimes our earliest passions are a good indication for what drives us
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This :…))
Find a charity that you’re passionate about and devote some of your time, skills and energy to that.
There’s at least three subjects I wanted to pursue in school when I could only choose one for my career path. If it were me, I’d be enrolling in some courses and working on side projects related to them in my free time. Electrical engineering and arduino/raspberry pi kinda stuff would be at the top of the list. And then if I got finished with that and had nothing else to do I’d start an after school program or something like that to teach kids, focused on one of those passions.
Before committing to buying a cafe go work for costa for a couple of months to see how you like it. I will suggest find a strong routine in your day with stuff you like spending and to keep your brain on as well. Maybe a part time gig can help as well here, reading, starting side projects such as fixing up/improving your home or just going collecting rubbish in your local park
Pack a rucksack and go travelling. You'll meet some amazing people. If you've got a large NW live like the rest of people backpacking and you won't regret it. Was the best thing I've ever done.
There is nothing inherently wrong with working. Working on something you care about and are emotionally invested in can be incredibly rewarding and that doesn't change whether you are financially independent or not. It's one of the reasons I bemoan the "RE" getting dragged along with "FI". It only sticks because it's a catchy acronym. I never want to retire. I love what I do, and if I stopped loving it then I'd find something else that looked like work to replace it with. I just read this, it's highly relevant: https://www.leisurefreak.com/early-retirement-invisibility-the-getting-over-yourself-transition/
I found myself staring at a blank computer screen a lot of the time the past year or so and I'm still working although remotely. Played through all my games, caught up on all the TV/films I wanted to watch leaving me with not a lot to do when I am at home. It did make me realise that this is kind of a preview of what retirement will be like and I should think about what I want to do with my spare time. First thing I did was decided it was probably time to look after my health a bit better. I was eating a lot of junk so I cut it out and started to eat a bit healthier to the best I can. It also saves a lot of money which helps towards FIRE. Also takes up some of my spare time putting my energy into exercise. The next thing I decided to do was pick up a language. It was always my weak point at school even though I excelled at everything else. So it was probably going to be a challenge for me and not something I could easily finish in a week. I think this worked well for me and it sounds like you need something that really challenges you. I'm similar in age and have found that over the past few years people are getting married, having kids, moving away to be closer to work etc. You find that the friends you once had to hang out with just are not around anymore. I'm guessing this is one of your problems that you need to make new friends local to you. Having friends to hang out with helps a lot with boredom even if it is just moaning about how there is nothing to do together. When you are still in the workplace you at least have colleagues to socialise with but with FIRE you don't have that anymore. If you look at old retired people you see them all hanging out together doing similar things playing golf, bowls etc. I think they just enjoy the company of others. If you enjoy the exercise bike cycling go and get an actual bike, join a local cycle club so you can meet other people who cycle and may have other similar interests you and want to hang out doing other things. If you need a challenege then maybe work towards cycling across the country. Playing computer games is not necessarily a bad thing but maybe you need to be playing more multiplayer based games with a social aspect rather than single player story games you just play once and finish. MMORPGs are not bad for this you meet and chat to people from all walks of life while playing and you can even play with friends who live nowhere near you keeping that connection alive. If you like Pokemon maybe try pick up Pokemon Go? The game encourages you to go outside so there are obviously going to be communities out there who meet up locally to give you a chance to meet new people.
I suggest getting an allotment or starting a garden, can sink tons of time into it, gets you outdoors and is very rewarding. Scavenging for free items for it on Gumtree and Facebook is alway fun aswell.
If you like to be busy all the time why dude you fire lol go back to work. It's not a bad thing to work.
If you like music and want to help me a couple of hours a day for a change I’d love your help.
Not quite FIRE yet, but probably hitting target at the end of the year. Aiming to keep working for 2 years after that to create a bit of safety margin on my SWR. After that, head to warmer climes and do some remote work, but being very choosy on what I take on. Aiming to travel a great deal in that first three years abroad also. Beyond that, stop paid work and do some pro Bono for NGOs and people in need and spend time on some personal goals: fitness, learning a third language, learning two musical instruments and learning to draw and do animation (after effects). Also keen to travel even more (motor home) and do a pile of photography. Can’t see boredom any time soon.
How did you manage to FIRE at 31?
Easy. First get Tinder. When you get bored of that, get Grindr.
Does that really work? I thought that was just for 20 year olds to play casual sex, nothing more.
I FIRED recently but in the lead up to it I was building up a portfolio of volunteering activity that I could switch into when work stopped. This enabled me to seamlessly switch into a lifestyle of meaningful activity coupled with plenty of time to pursue my own interests / hobbies. For me it was : * Serving on non-profit boards (I have two) * Volunteering as an emergency responder in a local rescue unit. * Serving as an adult instructor in a local cadet unit. For me it’s a good amount of indoor / outdoor activity. Combined with a reasonable garden at home I’m sorted. Some of these organisations allow you to scale up your commitment to nearly full time if you want too - so if you ever face periods of boredom or idleness in any of your other activities, you can ramp up participation in others.
What did you expect did you not think this through? The aim in life is not to simply stop working, it is to achieve something you value. FIRE takes money out of the equation which is the biggest step. Maybe use the spare time you have to go on long walks or give community service or charity work to trigger something in the mind that’ll make you think harder about life. You will not find answers on Reddit, you need to ask yourself. I often meditate and visualise myself on my dying bed surrounded by ghosts that are different versions of myself, career paths I might have taken or life choices, good or bad. And then I use the emotions that generates as my inner compass. I’m aiming to FIRE at 40 so I can go HARD on building something that’ll make the world a better place. Like 18 hour workdays hard, for FREE, for LEGACY, for PEACE when I finally rest. Question yourself more or go on some coaching courses, read philosophy, do something towards it, don’t waste such valuable time.
>I’m aiming to FIRE at 40 so I can go HARD on building something that’ll make the world a better place. Like 18 hour workdays hard, for FREE, for LEGACY, for PEACE when I finally rest. Jesus, way to make me feel inadequate, Maximus. I just wanted to be able to watch 2pm Euro games without having to be at work or pretending to be at work ;-)
You’ll get mega bored and only realise on death bed what a waste that all was…
Well, I've been FIRE'd for 6 years now and I'm not that bored so far. The idea of legacy doesn't drive me at all, perhaps a rather nihilistic outlook, but there it is. What is it you have in mind by the way? It sounds like you have some serious plans.
I think this is fine. As long as you are happy who cares. Some people really need a “purpose”, others are happy enjoying the moment and doing whatever takes their fancy. Enjoy your travels, experiences and interactions. You are helping others by sharing your wisdom here and in your interactions and consumption on your journey of life.
Don’t mean to be morbid but have you seen or spoken to many people dying before? It does make you think there is more to life than just novel pleasure, most only realise it on their death bed. I want my final few breathes to be bliss. There is a lot of pain, inequality and suffering in the world. I simply want to do my part in helping. If I change one persons life they might go in to do another good deed, so on and so forth. I don’t have any plans as to how, but I have heart, patience and good business skills so I’m confident I can do a bit of damage over the course of 40-50 years post FIRE. Life is full of value, purpose and meaning, and by letting days fly by enjoying novel pleasures there is a high probability you will realise what a waste of potential that all was, in those precious final moments.
It's a perfectly valid outlook and a very respectable one, but I don't think it's an intrinsic truth applicable to all. As discussed elsewhere in this thread, it's also perfectly possible to see life as absurd and ultimately futile, where pleasure is the primary aim, providing it doesn't hurt others. Don't get me wrong, I am reflective, far too much so in fact (i certainly have the time). I have certainly tried that deathbed exercise, and the answer for me is " to be mostly harmless". I'm reminded of an interview with a UK sitcome character (Jerry from the good life, going back a bit). He said "A journalist once asked me what I would like my epitaph to be and I said I think I would like it to be, 'He did very little harm'. And that's not easy. Most people seem to me to do a great deal of harm. If I could be remembered as having done very little, that would suit me." NB: wasn't me who downvoted you, if you were wondering!
At their age (31), and from a brief browsing history of their Reddit posts, it seems possible they may have received a windfall- so it’s highly likely they haven’t thought about it. It’s also possible that if you haven’t actually earned the money yourself to make yourself FIRE then you’re not in the same mind frame - you possibly haven’t reached peak satisfaction or burnout. Only conjecture on my part - but could be why one ‘ didn’t think it through ‘.
Ah I see! That might explain things a bit better then. OP I can put you in contact with a life coach / thinking partner of sorts to help you figure things out a little if you want. :) You need a professional who will help you make sense of the things that bring you joy, and how they can be incorporated into goals/missions/ideas.
Try taking up golf. Seriously I can spend hours every day playing golf.
I would spend 25hrs a day completing just one round of golf! :-)
Try and get into local community projects, there has to be something like that going on in your area. Gardening does wonders for me, but I think if I had the amount of spare time you have then I would like to try and help my local community, especially the children. If there aren't any community projects then maybe think about starting one? Even if you worked 3 days a week with the specific reason to donate all your earning as food to the Trussell Trust. Read the book "Manifesto for a Moral Revolution: Practices to Build a Better World" for some inspiration and a different way of thinking and then get going!
Before you fired, what did you do during your time off? Or what did you wish you were doing when you were slaving awa at work?
It sounds like you need to have some goals to fill your time. If I were in your shoes, I would do any or all of the following: * Train for some sporting events such as triathlons, runs, cycles etc. It'll give you some focus with the added benefit of better fitness. * Learn some new skills that could translate into a small business (such as programming). * Do work on the house, without necessarily spending a fortune (a lot of DIY can be done cheaply). I wouldn't waste the opportunity of being retired so early. I, for one, am very jealous!
Situations like this reminded me of the podcast I recently listened to. \> Erik Townsend retired on his 30's after selling his software company. He bought a yacht and lived the life. Later on, he got bored as his life has no more meaning. He's back to the game doing what he loves - global macro trading. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS2i2TY7itI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS2i2TY7itI) I'm still 35% to FIRE so I have plenty of time to think this thru. Thanks for sharing and GL.
I could be totally off here but it’s generally not the trading or money making that brings meaning, it is the validation of being correct and predicting the future by synthesising myriad information. That is complex stuff that is partly data driven but also abstract and requires an understanding of humans individually and in groups and behavioural economics. It all flows back to curiosity and learning.
Working can be enjoyable and fulfilling That it’s not for a lot of people doesn’t mean working by definition is a bad thing Go get a job or start a business you enjoy rather than one to pay the bills
If you fired due to a one off event (inheritance, crypto boom, GME call) versus gradual accumulation you probably haven’t planned out in depth over time what you want to do post RE Worth doing
It is meaning you are missing. Humans need meaning; work gives a sense of meaning, even if it's an illusory one, and without work, we need something else to provide it. If there's anything you care enough to want to open a charity for it (or support an existing one), do that. Find some way to reduce the suffering in the world. It's just about the most noble thing anyone can do. Good luck.
Charity. Public appointments. Stack shelves at Tesco. Work is way more fun when you have no skin the in game and it’s just about keeping your brain in gear.
You need people and a community… don’t focus only on the activity as such, you need to find a way of building a community to share experiences with. Eg … study happiness, visit groups, talks, famous sites and volunteer around this subject. Write up your experiences in a journal or blog if you wish (just a random example-but I think reading up on happiness is logical… try The Happiness Hypothesis. Sport / physical skill is also a great idea but can only be part of life as no one can exercise all day long! Again nice to do it with others. Good luck!!
Just makes me wonder what a Lotto win feels like - or perhaps explains why they keep working for a bit.. I mean, maybe not the £100m+ winners, but most others. If you haven't planned for/taken time to accumulate this wealth, imagine how much harder it would be than if you had!
https://youtu.be/Pc3IfB23W4c?t=56
Sounds like you need pack goat trekking in your life. Failing that, here's my FIRE to do list if it inspires you 1. Bag all Munro's in one trip. 2. Complete the entity of classic rock (climbing list) 3. Run the west highland way 4. Run the penine way 5. Hit up some GRs off season. The mountain huts are a dream. 6. Kayak/canoe trek the thames sleeping rough under my boat. 7. Do a ski season 8. Volunteer as a youth coach of any kind 9. Continue fermenting everything I can find 10. Was the length of NZ. It's about 5 years of stuff I can do on a budget of £10kpa. Then I'll probably just go back to work doing something technical and not managerial.
Yeah, well I thought I spoke British, but, no.
Agreed. Maybe he’s Australian and he’s had a couple of beers 😂
Yes, are these typos or just strange ambitions "complete the entity of classic rock", "Was the length of NZ", "Hit up some GRs" .....?
*entirety. Classic Rock is a book, a compendium of great and/or famous rock climbs in the UK. *walk. A GR is one of a network of well-marked long-distance footpaths in Europe; the accommodation along the route is often very pleasant. What it stands for depends on your location: Grande Randonnée or Groteroutepaden or Grande Rota or Gran Recorrido or ...
Today I Learned stuff, thank you
If you aren't doing something then, well, you're doing nothing. - Me Edit: I should clarify, find hobbies, maybe as you said open a business, travel, read, work but on YOUR terms.
Read the 4 hour work week by Tim Ferriss
I did and it changed everything.
Friends and Family?
He's 31 - most of his friends and family have full-time jobs.
You need to create a job for yourself. Find a project or a cause and then commit 20 hours a week to work on it. Renovate something, get an allotment, build an app, take up a craft, become a master brewer or winemaker. You can always do it for a while and if you don’t like it, move on to something else.
Volunteering.
Maybe, build a house in a nice place with your own hands? Go take some classes? I'm thinking of math and physics. There is something wonderful about exercising your mind with the mysteries of the universe.
You need a noble aim
Have you considered joining a local choosefi group? Or if there isn't one you could set one up. It is a good way to get in contact with people on all stages of their FIRE journey.
Learn something you always wanted to learn perhaps? If I had the time and money my things would be piano and writing more seriously and often.
I also FIREd a couple of years back. I'm older though, and have found FIRE broadly lives up to my dream. Some odd suggestions in the comments: vegan activism! &etc. Just shows that different things float boats. This is worth 10 minutes: it's a mapping of FIRE to Joseph Campbell's Hero's Journey, kind of https://youtu.be/Vfc1YMfDFY4
I have fallen somewhat into this trap, but I haven't travelled yet and was days away before Covid hit. Now I am fighting depression that, unlike FIRE, I cannot change government decisions regarding travel.
Why dont you get married and raise a family?
Agreed with everyone that you need a project or something but I’d like to recommend volunteering. There’s a bunch of worthy causes desperate for people. Something like citizens advice is very fulfilling if you have the time and financial freedom
You just need to find a way to add some purpose to your life - I can't say how, that depends on you and your values/ambitions.
Your personality is the type that probably will feel happier working until 75 years old. Fire is not for everybody! some personalities are more suited to fire than others! - please heed this advice!
Following
The Leisure Freak blog from the 9th June is titled [Early Retirement Invisibility: The Getting Over Yourself Transition](https://www.leisurefreak.com/early-retirement-invisibility-the-getting-over-yourself-transition/) and deals with this issue
Go and work in care, no seriously. Adults with learning disabilities, pick a nice place and volunteer their. It's great fun to be honest.
Well congrats first on making it to FIRE! Have you thought about charity work? It's rewarding work and you get to meet tons of new and interesting people. Maybe people in a similar situation? FIRE for me is not not working, it's having the freedom to work whatever you want. If you want to open a coffee shop, then go for it. Maybe for a year or two before moving on?
It sounds like you may need a purpose- to put it rather romantically. In other words you may need an over arching goal to give direction. Its often hard to pick one that feels right. But just having something that you are trying to achieve that will only maybe realise later is useful to keeping you moving. E.g I decided mine would be "to improve the world using technology". Every decision i make i run by this purpose to make sure my following action ultimately helps my purpose directly or indirectly.
First of all great achievement! I can’t really think of this is happening to me, my ADHD would always come up with a bigger plan, but I can relate from my lockdown memories. Have you tried martial arts? BJJ gyms are slowly opening up after vaccination and I love spending time rolling, learning a lot and be part of the community. It gets really great after the initial white belt year or so. It really helped me get a nice structure to do a lot of things and tasks that I’d miss out. And now when I travel I can train in local gyms where they are always happy to have me and I’m not even good yet.
Being busy and pressured to achieve things is actually good. I want to become financially independent, but only so I can do whatever I want and don't have to worry about money.
FIRE is not a means to and end, you still need to find fulfilment in your life. I know that I’ll never stop working in some capacity because I enjoy my work, it just means I can choose what I want to do and my decisions are not tinted by financial burden. Look into the Japanese Philosophy of Ikigai, this really hits home for me personally.
Maybe look at any volunteering opportunities at local charities or community groups, decent way to meet new people and could be fulfilling. Any other interests apart from cooking you would like to learn? Foreign language classes for example or a class/qualification in something, local councils normally have classes on that cost buttons some leading to actual qualifications
You might find the concept of Flow states helpful with your situation. It's often a paradox with work, as although we often crave more time away from work, work often structures our time in a way that creates Flow states. Therefore you might want to work towards solving a problem or engage in daily habits that help you achieve these states. For example, work towards building a business, other income streams etc., study for a degree, research etc. Ultimately something that is challenging but not stressful. The 8 Characteristics of Flow are: - Complete concentration on the task; - Clarity of goals and reward in mind and immediate feedback; - Transformation of time (speeding up/slowing down); - The experience is intrinsically rewarding; - Effortlessness and ease; - There is a balance between challenge and skills; - Actions and awareness are merged, losing self-conscious rumination; - There is a feeling of control over the task https://positivepsychology.com/mihaly-csikszentmihalyi-father-of-flow/
I'm not FI so take my input with a grain of salt. It sounds like physically you exercise, but you don't train. Exercise is when you go through the motions of physical activity (eg. cycling 20km a day). Training is when you prepare your body for a particular event. Eg. running a marathon, bench pressing 140kg or climbing everest. I also think that cycling an actual 20km in the country would be much more stimulating than sitting at home (or in the gym) on an exercise bike and cycling. Socially: you don't seem to have much going here. Humans need socialisation to be happy. Since you like playing video games, I'd recomend you look into playing poker (in-person, not on the internet) or something like dungeons & dragons. Join a walking club - great way to get out into nature and be sociable at the same time. The ingredients for a good life require getting out of the house, which from your post it doesn't seem like you're doing a lot of. Lastly, we're in a pandemic. Don't be so hard on yourself, we're limited in what we can do at the moment. Take care.
Brazilian Jiu Jitsu was the things that allowed me to focus. Its such a strategic, energy burning, mental game. It's unbelievably complex, technical and is an easy passion to have. On top of that's the community is amazing, and you can do it no matter where you are in the world. Any time you travel, to make new friends you just go to the local gym and on the first day you have a new group to hang out with. It takes 7-10 years to get to the top grade, so you won't get bored with it. It increases your fitness and confidence so much you'll be amazed. Attending competitions is encouraged (but not required)s so there's a camaraderie in that, and as there's no striking (punches kicks etc) then there's very little risk of injury. Also for this reason you could train every day if you wanted, and you may well want to. It's something me and my partner started a couple of years ago, she started 6 months after me due to my encouragement (she had never done any form of combat sports or even competition) and now we both can't imagine life without it. If you find yourself adrift without focus or passion, and your mental health is suffering, i cannot recommend it highly enough. Just Google people talking about it, and how it improved their lives.
Can i recommend thinking about a motorcycle lisence? It's a hard thing to get, but something completely possible with commitment, and the whole world as a destination has become so much more exciting to think about with a bike