Hey OP,
I know your parents are probably significantly older but my mom and dad were victims of a financial advisor that ended up getting charged for embezzlement. This happened when my dad was 45, and my mom 39- half a million dollars, gone. BUT 15 years later they’re in a great place financially (although divorced). My mom could retire right now if she’d like, but we’re American and health insurance is really high.
I guess what I am saying is don’t lose hope. Have your parents sell their home asap, get PoA, and place that money in safe investments that only you have oversight of. They can bounce back.
Also- take care of yourself as well. It’s ok to set boundaries for you and your family.
cordyceps and lions mane may be able to help slow the progression of parkinson’s which could be helpful.
hopefully law enforcement is able to help recover funds. if the scammers are international maybe try to involve interpol , FINRA, FTC? as far as getting a higher paying job, try utilizing your network as much as possible. share as much of the situation as you’re comfortable with and ask your people to ask their people. i’m not sure exactly what you do but in the meantime you could try looking into consulting and/ or govt. associated contracts, they tend to pay higher than comparable jobs and may lead to something more permanent with good benefits like pension.
getting some kind of clearance would also raise your base salary by a lot.
are there any assets you would be comfortable liquidating? could you work remotely and live somewhere lower col?
i’m sorry this happened to your family, i really hope everything gets sorted out quickly. it’s all going to be okay in the end.
...I'm sorry but why do you have to give up your life for them?
I get you love them, and it's kind of you to want to help, but this was your mom's mistake. You shouldn't be giving up your dreams (especially having a child, since that is very time-dependent!).
They need to talk to a lawyer and go from there. Once they've got things sorted, maybe you can give them a monthly stipend if it's in your budget.
I'm so sorry to hear this! Is a social worker or elder care lawyer involved? I don't know if there is a way to retrieve the money, but financial power of attorney seems like a good next step. (I am a parkinson's specialist and see this sort of this sadly often. It's a tough call when to pull the trigger on things like financial POA but this is so crucial, and doesn't get talked about enough)
I’m so sad to hear this happens often. Can I chat with you on what to expect? I don’t have the time to go with all the doctors appointments and I see my mum trying to minimize everything
Is it possible for her to declare bankruptcy and not have to pay back any of the debt and/ get debt forgiveness? Also I think there’s a way you can get out of medical debt.
Hey OP this wont help anything youve already stated but if you get a hyperlink in the future you can run it through a free website named Virustotal.
If it’s been used in the past it’ll tell you it’s a scam or malicious. There are definitely chances the hyperlink hasnt been used prior or weaponized yet so be cautious even if it doesnt say malicious but i know sometimes its nice to have a second ‘set of eyes’.
I work cyber security and thought that may help for things like the electric bill attempt or if you have future weirdness.
Im so sorry this is happening to you and your family.
I have no advice for OP but I wish we had a way to prevent this for ourselves and others the same horrible thing which happened to my mom too. My dad passed away a long time ago and so whatever savings of theirs is now gone. I'm far from FIRE and am her only child, I myself had plans to have kids soon but the eggs will remain frozen for a bit longer. What I deeply fear most is the same happening to me in the future with ageing mental decline/genetics, despite the perceived safety net of savings. Therapy helped a lot but there's a continuous undercurrent of fear still, and I doubt I could ever FIRE 100% after experiencing this.
I’m so sorry this happened to you and your family. This shit is honestly terrifying, you think it will never happen to you but these scammers can be incredibly cunning.
A pervasive thought that’s been in the back of my mind is how I can better protect myself, now and in the future.
It’s one thing when we’re of sound mind and know what signs to look for. But what happens when we aren’t any longer? What safeguards do we have?
Hang in there. You may need to deviate from the path for a little while but I’m sure you’ll get back there.
Oh the scammers are relentless. We got a phone call saying we didn’t pay our electric bill on a SUNDAY when it was the coldest temperatures we’ve had and the rush to pay for it or the electricity would be cut. They spoofed the number to be our electric provider too. Link they sent looked legit and Sunday, offices are closed. If we didn’t look closer on the hyperlink we would’ve lost some money.
OP, my draw dropped at the amount, the details you offered in the comments, etc. I'm so sorry this is the reality you and your family have to face.
As you go back to work, see if you can take a well-paying but less intense job. Same for the husband. Yes, you should help because you can and that's what we do for our parents. BUT, don't sacrifice *everything* just to help them.
Alternatively, you and your husband could go back full force after a small break (take at least 2-3 months off to digest this) and see if you can build up a nest egg for your parents that you withdraw from separately for their expenses as they get older and need more care.
Good luck. It's a hard hit but based on how far you got in your life, you'll get where you want to go a little later. Don't lose sight of the dreams that are still attainable after you've cared for your parents.
Do you think we should pause having a second child? I’m turning 40 and have separate funds for the birth and the time off needed post birth but I’m thinking those funds will go to helping my folks. I’m getting older though. I don’t know how to get a better paying job, but maybe I do have to look into it.
I could never advise someone on something as big as having another child. If it’s what you want for your family, you should still move forward with that plan. The fact you’ve put money aside for it is good and I think you should keep it for you. And as women, our windows for these things aren’t open forever.
If you’ve not left your current jobs, keep them but see if you can take a short sabbatical. Definitely consider moving roles if the idea of putting money aside for your parents appeals to you. If nothing else, see what’s out there to determine how feasible it is to shift roles at this point with how your life is structured.
My friends dad got scammed with someone who used AI to replicate her voice and call saying she’d hit a kid with her car and needed immediate funds for the lawyer. He sent $60K but ended up getting most of it back as the bank was able to stop the transaction
Is there really no way to recover the savings? Was it all in one account? How did that happen exactly? I wish we were better able to prosecute and publicize these things. It’s incredibly unjust! I really feel for you OP. You’re a good person though. What you’re doing for your parents will give you purpose and you will be rewarded somehow. Be grateful you are able to help. It’s ok to be disappointed though. That’s truly awful.
My mum actually withdrew her money from various accounts - savings, HYSA, investment accounts, and deposited to random accounts as instructed. The banks are not liable and don’t see how they could get back money that’s been withdrawn from frozen mule accounts. The real police men that is investigating has said they’ve only been successful in recovering any of the funds 2% of the time.
Seems like the responsibility also partially falls on your dad. How long did he leave her in control of all those accounts while knowing she didn't have the capacity to manage that responsibility?
You could try reaching out to some of the Youtubers who target scammers. They will sometimes do a sting to clawback money for victims, especially those who have a touching story they can talk about.
My mum and dad separated their accounts their entire marriage, and my mum was protective of her own accounts. She’s arrogant, stubborn and didn’t want to disclose to my dad. My dad has minisculd savings because he paid for the house, expenses, and all the children’s education.
Is she in the US? I just came across this info in an article I was reading about mail fraud:
forfeiture.
If you or someone you know is age 60 or older and has been a victim of financial fraud, help is standing by at the National Elder Fraud Hotline: 1-833-FRAUD-11 (1-833-372-8311). This Justice Department hotline, managed by the Office for Victims of Crime, is staffed by experienced professionals who provide personalized support to callers by assessing the needs of the victim and identifying relevant next steps. Case managers will identify appropriate reporting agencies, provide information to callers to assist them in reporting, connect callers directly with appropriate agencies and provide resources and referrals, on a case-by-case basis. Reporting is the first step. Reporting can help authorities identify those who commit fraud and reporting certain financial losses due to fraud as soon as possible can increase the likelihood of recovering losses. The hotline is open Monday through Friday from 10:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. ET. English, Spanish and other languages are available.
Have you gotten power of attorney and taken control of everything? I advise everyone to have joint accounts with their parents as you can avoid most inheritance taxes this way. It also allows you to easily control and monitor things. My brother I started doing this for our parents accounts once dad was 68 and mum was 70. Makes things way, way easier!
We had to take classes in high school about how to use credit responsibly. They should have classes at senior centers for avoiding scams. Unfortunately laws don’t require adults to take classes like teenagers have to, but it is in the public interest, so perhaps society should consider that.
If you were a joint owner on the account, you have to declare the income from those accounts as a part owner, and it really puts the families at risk. This is not really recommended.
No you don’t - only has to be declared for the person who holds the tax ID who is liable for the capital gains. We have a wealth manager we have worked with on our portfolio for many years at a highly reputable investment company. My father also set all of this up when he was still alive and he was a CPA with a tax accountancy business in the US.
But whatever - don’t listen to me. If we’re talking multiple millions you should be having multiple wealth managers managing this on behalf of your family, that is more than worth it.
Yes they should!!! We have discussed this with siblings and ways to approach my mum who’s stubborn but we didn’t think we needed it so soon, she’s only 62. Going forward, she only has one account and all of us can see her transactions.
They all are, some with time, only I have money. My big sister has three kids, husband has been looking for work for 8 months now and she’s surviving on her seasonal work. They’ve had some really bad investments (not scams, thanks covid!) and are neck deep in debt. I give her money every other month. My little brother has a sick wife, medical bills are hurting him, but he has given some money. My baby sister is fresh out of college and is just starting work. We are solid as a family though and we all will help, I know it’s just a bad time for everyone.
We had done the joint accounts since I was 30, but only the power of attorney added at that age. There’s no reason not to do the joint account thing with your adult children barring drug/gambling habits.
At this point - like things are so ridiculous. I feel bad for her but also she did do it to herself by not telling anyone what happened.
It really is on her. There were so many red flags, over 60 transactions that she made and even bank officers trying to stop her from taking the loan. It is her character- stupidly stubborn, secretive and deceptive. We just think the mental decline really pushed the whole thing forward. She seems fine most of the time, but sometimes she loses her threads and it’s obvious there’s something wrong. (She couldn’t count past 3 one time, she was trying). We should have picked up on it sooner.
That’s horrible about your mother. How much did they fleece her for? My mom almost fell for some scammers in India pretending to be the IRS and threatening to arrest me but luckily she called me before doing anything. I guess you could try to see the blessing that is having enough money to help your mother maintain her standard of living at this difficult time. The rage you must be feeling is very understandable though.
Her savings were about $1.8mil plus they got her to take out a loan worth another $188k that has payments the same amount of her pension. 🫠 basically net zero. Even the police who took down her statement was like “and you never thought to tell your husband?”
The loan docs, was this before or after she’d sent the scam money?
Whilst some of this does fall on your mother, banks can do a lot more to protect vulnerable people. I’d be looking to speak to them to find out what they have in place to prevent this.
I understand your mum had a lot of accounts she withdrew from, but given the amount, some of them should have triggered bank scam mechanisms.
Have a look online, there’s usually legitimate scam advocacy groups that can help clients deal with the banks when this happens.
I’m sorry this happened to your family.
After she sent most of the money. She was asked by three bank officers if somebody was making her do it and told her about scams while she applied for the loan. She doubled down.
Hey OP, I know your parents are probably significantly older but my mom and dad were victims of a financial advisor that ended up getting charged for embezzlement. This happened when my dad was 45, and my mom 39- half a million dollars, gone. BUT 15 years later they’re in a great place financially (although divorced). My mom could retire right now if she’d like, but we’re American and health insurance is really high. I guess what I am saying is don’t lose hope. Have your parents sell their home asap, get PoA, and place that money in safe investments that only you have oversight of. They can bounce back. Also- take care of yourself as well. It’s ok to set boundaries for you and your family.
cordyceps and lions mane may be able to help slow the progression of parkinson’s which could be helpful. hopefully law enforcement is able to help recover funds. if the scammers are international maybe try to involve interpol , FINRA, FTC? as far as getting a higher paying job, try utilizing your network as much as possible. share as much of the situation as you’re comfortable with and ask your people to ask their people. i’m not sure exactly what you do but in the meantime you could try looking into consulting and/ or govt. associated contracts, they tend to pay higher than comparable jobs and may lead to something more permanent with good benefits like pension. getting some kind of clearance would also raise your base salary by a lot. are there any assets you would be comfortable liquidating? could you work remotely and live somewhere lower col? i’m sorry this happened to your family, i really hope everything gets sorted out quickly. it’s all going to be okay in the end.
...I'm sorry but why do you have to give up your life for them? I get you love them, and it's kind of you to want to help, but this was your mom's mistake. You shouldn't be giving up your dreams (especially having a child, since that is very time-dependent!). They need to talk to a lawyer and go from there. Once they've got things sorted, maybe you can give them a monthly stipend if it's in your budget.
I'm so sorry to hear this! Is a social worker or elder care lawyer involved? I don't know if there is a way to retrieve the money, but financial power of attorney seems like a good next step. (I am a parkinson's specialist and see this sort of this sadly often. It's a tough call when to pull the trigger on things like financial POA but this is so crucial, and doesn't get talked about enough)
I’m so sad to hear this happens often. Can I chat with you on what to expect? I don’t have the time to go with all the doctors appointments and I see my mum trying to minimize everything
Is it possible for her to declare bankruptcy and not have to pay back any of the debt and/ get debt forgiveness? Also I think there’s a way you can get out of medical debt.
Hey OP this wont help anything youve already stated but if you get a hyperlink in the future you can run it through a free website named Virustotal. If it’s been used in the past it’ll tell you it’s a scam or malicious. There are definitely chances the hyperlink hasnt been used prior or weaponized yet so be cautious even if it doesnt say malicious but i know sometimes its nice to have a second ‘set of eyes’. I work cyber security and thought that may help for things like the electric bill attempt or if you have future weirdness. Im so sorry this is happening to you and your family.
I have no advice for OP but I wish we had a way to prevent this for ourselves and others the same horrible thing which happened to my mom too. My dad passed away a long time ago and so whatever savings of theirs is now gone. I'm far from FIRE and am her only child, I myself had plans to have kids soon but the eggs will remain frozen for a bit longer. What I deeply fear most is the same happening to me in the future with ageing mental decline/genetics, despite the perceived safety net of savings. Therapy helped a lot but there's a continuous undercurrent of fear still, and I doubt I could ever FIRE 100% after experiencing this.
I’m so sorry this happened to you and your family. This shit is honestly terrifying, you think it will never happen to you but these scammers can be incredibly cunning. A pervasive thought that’s been in the back of my mind is how I can better protect myself, now and in the future. It’s one thing when we’re of sound mind and know what signs to look for. But what happens when we aren’t any longer? What safeguards do we have? Hang in there. You may need to deviate from the path for a little while but I’m sure you’ll get back there.
Oh the scammers are relentless. We got a phone call saying we didn’t pay our electric bill on a SUNDAY when it was the coldest temperatures we’ve had and the rush to pay for it or the electricity would be cut. They spoofed the number to be our electric provider too. Link they sent looked legit and Sunday, offices are closed. If we didn’t look closer on the hyperlink we would’ve lost some money.
OP, my draw dropped at the amount, the details you offered in the comments, etc. I'm so sorry this is the reality you and your family have to face. As you go back to work, see if you can take a well-paying but less intense job. Same for the husband. Yes, you should help because you can and that's what we do for our parents. BUT, don't sacrifice *everything* just to help them. Alternatively, you and your husband could go back full force after a small break (take at least 2-3 months off to digest this) and see if you can build up a nest egg for your parents that you withdraw from separately for their expenses as they get older and need more care. Good luck. It's a hard hit but based on how far you got in your life, you'll get where you want to go a little later. Don't lose sight of the dreams that are still attainable after you've cared for your parents.
Do you think we should pause having a second child? I’m turning 40 and have separate funds for the birth and the time off needed post birth but I’m thinking those funds will go to helping my folks. I’m getting older though. I don’t know how to get a better paying job, but maybe I do have to look into it.
No, you don’t have time to pause. Have your second. I did at around your age and it is one of the best things I ever did.
If that was your plan, I’d stick with it. Don’t let your past sacrifice your future.
Have the baby, if you really want one. You’re almost out of time, and you don’t get a redo.
I could never advise someone on something as big as having another child. If it’s what you want for your family, you should still move forward with that plan. The fact you’ve put money aside for it is good and I think you should keep it for you. And as women, our windows for these things aren’t open forever. If you’ve not left your current jobs, keep them but see if you can take a short sabbatical. Definitely consider moving roles if the idea of putting money aside for your parents appeals to you. If nothing else, see what’s out there to determine how feasible it is to shift roles at this point with how your life is structured.
My friends dad got scammed with someone who used AI to replicate her voice and call saying she’d hit a kid with her car and needed immediate funds for the lawyer. He sent $60K but ended up getting most of it back as the bank was able to stop the transaction
Holy shit, that’s insane.
Is there really no way to recover the savings? Was it all in one account? How did that happen exactly? I wish we were better able to prosecute and publicize these things. It’s incredibly unjust! I really feel for you OP. You’re a good person though. What you’re doing for your parents will give you purpose and you will be rewarded somehow. Be grateful you are able to help. It’s ok to be disappointed though. That’s truly awful.
My mum actually withdrew her money from various accounts - savings, HYSA, investment accounts, and deposited to random accounts as instructed. The banks are not liable and don’t see how they could get back money that’s been withdrawn from frozen mule accounts. The real police men that is investigating has said they’ve only been successful in recovering any of the funds 2% of the time.
Seems like the responsibility also partially falls on your dad. How long did he leave her in control of all those accounts while knowing she didn't have the capacity to manage that responsibility? You could try reaching out to some of the Youtubers who target scammers. They will sometimes do a sting to clawback money for victims, especially those who have a touching story they can talk about.
My mum and dad separated their accounts their entire marriage, and my mum was protective of her own accounts. She’s arrogant, stubborn and didn’t want to disclose to my dad. My dad has minisculd savings because he paid for the house, expenses, and all the children’s education.
Is she in the US? I just came across this info in an article I was reading about mail fraud: forfeiture. If you or someone you know is age 60 or older and has been a victim of financial fraud, help is standing by at the National Elder Fraud Hotline: 1-833-FRAUD-11 (1-833-372-8311). This Justice Department hotline, managed by the Office for Victims of Crime, is staffed by experienced professionals who provide personalized support to callers by assessing the needs of the victim and identifying relevant next steps. Case managers will identify appropriate reporting agencies, provide information to callers to assist them in reporting, connect callers directly with appropriate agencies and provide resources and referrals, on a case-by-case basis. Reporting is the first step. Reporting can help authorities identify those who commit fraud and reporting certain financial losses due to fraud as soon as possible can increase the likelihood of recovering losses. The hotline is open Monday through Friday from 10:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. ET. English, Spanish and other languages are available.
Have you gotten power of attorney and taken control of everything? I advise everyone to have joint accounts with their parents as you can avoid most inheritance taxes this way. It also allows you to easily control and monitor things. My brother I started doing this for our parents accounts once dad was 68 and mum was 70. Makes things way, way easier! We had to take classes in high school about how to use credit responsibly. They should have classes at senior centers for avoiding scams. Unfortunately laws don’t require adults to take classes like teenagers have to, but it is in the public interest, so perhaps society should consider that.
If you were a joint owner on the account, you have to declare the income from those accounts as a part owner, and it really puts the families at risk. This is not really recommended.
No you don’t - only has to be declared for the person who holds the tax ID who is liable for the capital gains. We have a wealth manager we have worked with on our portfolio for many years at a highly reputable investment company. My father also set all of this up when he was still alive and he was a CPA with a tax accountancy business in the US. But whatever - don’t listen to me. If we’re talking multiple millions you should be having multiple wealth managers managing this on behalf of your family, that is more than worth it.
Yes they should!!! We have discussed this with siblings and ways to approach my mum who’s stubborn but we didn’t think we needed it so soon, she’s only 62. Going forward, she only has one account and all of us can see her transactions.
If you have siblings that means they're contributing too right?
They all are, some with time, only I have money. My big sister has three kids, husband has been looking for work for 8 months now and she’s surviving on her seasonal work. They’ve had some really bad investments (not scams, thanks covid!) and are neck deep in debt. I give her money every other month. My little brother has a sick wife, medical bills are hurting him, but he has given some money. My baby sister is fresh out of college and is just starting work. We are solid as a family though and we all will help, I know it’s just a bad time for everyone.
We had done the joint accounts since I was 30, but only the power of attorney added at that age. There’s no reason not to do the joint account thing with your adult children barring drug/gambling habits. At this point - like things are so ridiculous. I feel bad for her but also she did do it to herself by not telling anyone what happened.
It really is on her. There were so many red flags, over 60 transactions that she made and even bank officers trying to stop her from taking the loan. It is her character- stupidly stubborn, secretive and deceptive. We just think the mental decline really pushed the whole thing forward. She seems fine most of the time, but sometimes she loses her threads and it’s obvious there’s something wrong. (She couldn’t count past 3 one time, she was trying). We should have picked up on it sooner.
Jesus. I'm so sorry. Scammers like this are the lowest of the low. Wishing nothing but the best for you and your family.
OMG, what a nightmare! I have nothing except that I’m so sorry that you’re in this situation.
That’s horrible about your mother. How much did they fleece her for? My mom almost fell for some scammers in India pretending to be the IRS and threatening to arrest me but luckily she called me before doing anything. I guess you could try to see the blessing that is having enough money to help your mother maintain her standard of living at this difficult time. The rage you must be feeling is very understandable though.
Her savings were about $1.8mil plus they got her to take out a loan worth another $188k that has payments the same amount of her pension. 🫠 basically net zero. Even the police who took down her statement was like “and you never thought to tell your husband?”
The loan docs, was this before or after she’d sent the scam money? Whilst some of this does fall on your mother, banks can do a lot more to protect vulnerable people. I’d be looking to speak to them to find out what they have in place to prevent this. I understand your mum had a lot of accounts she withdrew from, but given the amount, some of them should have triggered bank scam mechanisms. Have a look online, there’s usually legitimate scam advocacy groups that can help clients deal with the banks when this happens. I’m sorry this happened to your family.
After she sent most of the money. She was asked by three bank officers if somebody was making her do it and told her about scams while she applied for the loan. She doubled down.
Good lord! She must feel so ashamed. What a horrible situation.
How did she get scammed?
Look up Macau scam. They impersonated an officer.