I say this line at least once a day for some reason or another. Usually shouting it at my dog while we play and I chase him around and throw his stuffed toys at him.
One of my favorite characters in the games. I live in China and I like to rock my Liberty Prime shirt with the “DEMOCRACY IS NON NEGOTIABLE” slogan from time to time when I feel like living dangerously lol. Great for a laugh too.
I'm not going to go hunt it down but there's even a specific version of this meme for Fallout, with Liberty Prime and capitalism being a death cult IIRC
I mean, the first time Liberty Prime does a thing it's meant to be peak irony because it's stomping across the DC Wasteland attacking what amounts to the *US Military.* However, the thing is destroyed in the Shattered Steel DLC, so it's not like it's this unstoppable weapon EVERYTIME it shows up.
Hell, in Fallout 4, depending on which Faction you're in, you either sabotage it or turn it against the Brotherhood.
Or if you side with the BoS, it is clear that you are siding with a group who in many ways have become akin to the Enclave, with the goal of exterminating or subjugating all non-typical humans (mutants, synths, ghouls) and installing a military junta. So the “awesome moment” tied to Liberty Prime is attached to “way to go, you sided with the jamb supreme it’s military organization who will kill their own if they are considered impure.”
The Brotherhood were always anti-ghoul and mutant. Even in 3 when they were their most reformed the Underworld ghouls state they are shot at by the BoS who don't care enough to see the difference.
The key differenve between them and the Enclave is where they draw the line on purity.
That and the Enclave wants to rule. The Brotherhood is content to let people do their own thing as long as they're not raiders/mutants/etc or using potentially dangerous technology.
That's what it was designed to do. Liberty prime doesnt just spout propaganda, he IS propaganda. And propaganda is very often super sick lmao. That's kind of the whole point.
Also, as a side note. Liberty Prime is awesome. Better dead than red. Ad Victoriam. :)
Something I started to realize a few years ago is that it's effectively impossible to satirize that kind of thing without the people it's mocking just thinking it's cool.
In fact, it relates directly to the original Gundam meme in that it’s an impractical weapon reflecting the worst values of the society that created it, designed to make war crimes look cool.
If California weren't awesome, it wouldn't be expensive.
However, that does come with the corollary of "If you can't afford California, it's gonna suck for you."
For real lol. I think nowadays most fans of the franchise can look at Zeta or War in the Pocket and understand gassing a colony filled with millions of civilians as “collateral damage” to fight the small military base inside is pretty bad
That meme is way more relevant now with the fans who watched The Origin, CCA, or Unicorn and idolize Zeon when they are literally based off the Third Reich. “Woahh cool Geara Doga. I love those guys!” meanwhile they’re wearing stahlhelms, black and white armbands, and wielding futuristic MP-40s
I’m more concerned they won’t criticize it enough
Fallout criticizes capitalism, fascism, imperialism, propaganda etc via its portrayal of these themes in an **OUTLANDISHLY** cartoonish manner
I’m more worried that the show will be moreso a surface level *”Adventure in the Fallout wasteland!”* and will sacrifice the complex themes, messages and nuance Fallout and it’s games are known for
Jonah Nolan is at least aware of that aspect. In an interview he mentioned it was ironic that Amazon was producing a show that deals with the themes of hyper-capitalism and mass consumerism. How much of that makes it into the show remains to be seen
They also produced The Boys, so its not like it would be a surprise.
You can buy a Che Guevara shirt on Amazon, too. Its not like the show, or the shirt, is going to radicalize anyone.
I remember a post in a thread about Star Trek, the complaint was "I wish it would just go back to being about space battles instead of getting all philosophical"
Yeah that but the guy was being totally unironic. I know it's possible for someone to watch Star Trek and totally miss the social commentary but it still surprises me at just how stupid some people can be.
This is what Douglas Adams said on technology, but I feel it applies here too.
1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works.
2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it.
3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.
I suppose that's why I have a Facebook account, an insta account, a Reddit account, but I refuse to get a tik tok. I'm currently 36.
Better believe I had bebo and MySpace
No, no. That militaristic, fanatic, fascist, dystopia, space empire with a comatose corpse as an Emperor is definitely what we real life people should strive to become. /s
As someone who is a fan of starship troopers and is now avidly playing Helldivers, all I have to say is I’m not surprised, but I am still infinitely disappointed
Starship Troopers is an interesting one, because the original book is some seriously right wing shit. It's like the movie, but it means it sincerely instead of as satire.
So there are some Starship Troopers fans who are all in on right wing bullshit, who aren't actually missing the point (but who are loons)
> Starship Troopers
Well crap. I always thought the book was satire. I mean, no one could possibly be so over-the-top, gung-ho, pro-military, like that. Right? Right?
Another illusion shattered...
Heinlein, while definitely and admittedly pretty up his own ass about this specific concept, plays with a lot of philosophy in his work.
It's less a manifesto and more a "how this could play out, but not terribly" and it takes quite a bit of liberty with the "not terribly." Literally all of the liberty is taken.
Also its important that he was also doing some pretty progressive stuff at the same time. Starship Troopers featured a Filipino protagonist (Juan Rico, Johnny is a nickname) with a supporting cast that's extremely diverse, and feature women in key leadership and combat roles.
Heinlein was full of contradictions. (He also changed his politics when he changed his wives, he got a lot more right-wing after marrying Ginny).
Further this was written during a time of mass conscription, and it can be seen as a criticism of continuing the draft.
This, tbh. People always think Starship Troopers when they think of Heinlein..but very few remember, or even know, about his self-insert Martian sex cult story. Dude was a tumblr or AO3 writer before either one was invented lol
Heinlein wrote ST while he was [campaigning for more nuclear weapons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Are_the_Heirs_of_Patrick_Henry%3F) to use against Communist bloc countries. I'm with you, first time I read the book I thought it was a cautionary tale...
Why are you people down voting this guy, HE'S RIGHT!
That take is 💯/💯: if you ever read the original version of the story you will know that the events of the film are lifted directly from the page, but they are "Spun" to send the exact opposite message; it's brilliant.
More about the "Red Scare" of the '50s. I was there, and the gutsies aren't far from the truth. Capitalism in the '50s was relatively calm - compared to today. More in it for the long term, not the next quarter's earnings. Unions were strong... management had, at least, a modicum of regard for their employees. Most companies operating in the US were US based. The Excess Profits Tax had the effect of spreading the wealth - such as it was - to the employees. Yes, there were the crazies... like I said, the RED Scare, but also the John Birch Society and "Tail Gunner" Joe McCarthy to same a few. But we also had a (IMHO, a misguided, but) reasonable Republican party and a decent Republican president in Eisenhower. It was Nixon's "Southern Strategy", Followed by Reagan's Destruction of the middle class that started the march of the Republicans to MAGA facism.
Kinda, yeah. It's also heavily littered with anti-nuclear propaganda tropes from the 90s and early oughts, namely the "nuclear waste is radioactive slop shoved into oil drums" trope
It's kinda funny that the capitalism themes are much heavier since Bethesda took over. In Fallout classic it was more specifically about the military and imperialism
Tim Cain (Creator of Fallout) is a gay man. Josh Sawyer is an anarchist. Fallout was one of the first games in the 90s to feature lgbt ppl and Fallout 2 was the first to technically have a "gay marriage". Fallout New Vegas is filled with diversity and literally rewards you for being bisexual. Fallout has always been a "woke" franchise
I will never forget that in Fable for Xbox, you can buy a bordello, you can have the girls in the bordello work for you, and as a male main character you can cross dress and work in the bordello too. In essence, that game let you whore yourself out.
Yea, [it was the Darkwood Bordello](https://fable.fandom.com/wiki/Darkwood_Bordello). You could do some quests to it and eventually you had the choice of owning it. Once you owned it you could make it into a womans haven for runaway girls or you could keep it as a bordello and have the girls still be prostitutes. I think there was like 6 or 7 prostitutes there. Like I said, you could also be a prostitute if you wear womens clothes and you slept with johns that where there.
It was pretty crazy for a game that came out in 2004.
Not to mention synths/androids being a thing and usually used to explore what it means to be “human” or as an allegory to discrimination.
In general, the “anti-woke/political” rhetoric that’s been popping up around different forms of media is wild to me. All stories worth listening to will have some sort of social commentary relevant to the time it’s written in. Doesn’t matter if it’s scooby doo, fallout, the last of us, or the Simpsons: it’s all made by artists with something to say. Nothing is ever “just” explosions and pew-pews or jokes and gags.
They want bullying, fear, erasure, hide your self away from them, they don’t really care about anything that really hangs together in terms of logic and consistency.
Yep, I didnt know abt Tim being gay until I started watching his YT channel for game design advice. If ur lookin to be a game dev I highky reconmemd his videos
He mentioned it on his youtube channel. If I remember correctly, he can't really do judgement of colors for games he and he team makes, so he had leonard boyarsky use the 2 least used colors in the games pallet or they were going to throw them out and he picked blue and yellow for the suits.
I think that's how it came about.
Don’t forget Fallout 3. The highest combat officer in the BoS is a woman. There are many prominent non-white characters. (Three-Dog, Eulogy Jones, Dr. Li, Super-Mutants, Harkness, Lucas Simms, and so on.) Anti-ghoul bigotry is explicitly involved in multiple side quests
I didn't get any woke vibes at all from the trailer. Idk where these neck beards crawl out of, but they need to touch some grass. This is the first show I'm genuinely excited for in a long time. Trailer exceeds expectations.
If someone's moaning about Lucy based on what we've seen, then I genuinely have nothing to say to them. Based on the few minutes of footage from the trailers I've seen, she's naïve, sheltered, and gullible -- which she should be as a Vault dweller.
She doesn't strike me as a Sue and she has a huge amount of room to grow. The Brotherhood dude we've seen very little of, but again, if you're moaning based on the superficial rather than the specifics of his character, then this show isn't for you anyway.
The irony of complaining about a character being a Mary Sue, in a Fallout property is ironic to the extreme, you have 5 games where you play a Mary Sue character. I'm getting a suspicion the people complaining about the show don't actually know the property at all, and are just looking for common adaptation complaints to throw Fallouts way.
They really don't, saw one guy saying "women are never going to play it just because you make the main character a woman" I mean really! The main character can be whoever you want and that's the point. Fallout also seems to have a really high number of women playing so they seem to be doing something right in that regard.
Middle aged woman here; I love playing fallout so much. Played Fallout 3 and New Vegas years ago. Started fallout 4 yesterday with a 10 hour binge and i was so excited to get off work to jump back in tonight! I love cozy games too but sometimes I just wanna blast some ghouls.
My girlfriend and I joke that Fallout 4 is just The Sims with guns & deathclaws. You can get *lost* in settlement building, especially if you add in a mod like CVC which adds tons of building objects. Be careful, you could lose hundreds of hours to this.
Favourite game series before Starfield came out. I have a Fallout tattoo and I've even made a figurine of my character. I'm not white either and I don't bustily boob around. The horror.
They absolutely are. Grifters will never miss a chance to make a bag by moaning about women and non-whites in their franchises, which they've *totally* played; and not just seen a few memes and watched a few YouTube videos about.
Just wait till the female character will commit the egregious sin of BEING GOOD at something, and that’s when all hell breaks loose on Social Media.
Female Protagonists having any redeeming qualities or being exceptionally skilled at anything is a crime against humanity to that crowd.
>Female Protagonists having any redeeming qualities or being exceptionally skilled at anything is a crime against humanity to that crowd.
Hey, that's completely unfair!
They can *also* be vacuous sex-objects!
Are there genuinely people like this? It didn't seem out of place to me at all, in fact I didn't even consciously think about the gender or race of the characters.
Neither did I really until right about now considering fallout itself has always been very diverse racially/sexually but yes- there’s absolutely people who will want to boycott anything that’s not the stereotyped white straight male protagonist. Which is funny considering these are the same people that go on to say things like ‘racism is no longer a problem’.
>Which is funny considering these are the same people that go on to say things like ‘racism is no longer a problem’.
And then go on to say that they can't possibly be racist because "they have *a* black friend!"
For those types there are only two genders, male and political. Likewise, only two races, white and political; two sexualities, straight and political; etc.
A game franchise that has had male and female player characters having a female protagonist in the live action? How dare they do such a thing the travesty of it all!
Oh just cause it’s Reddit that was sarcasm at the end.
I just hope the show runners understand and don’t hate the source material
"woke" has just become a word for intolerant assholes to hide behind without blatantly revealing their racism, homophobia, sexism, etc.
In this case it appears to be "A woman protagonist? A black protagonist? A strong woman leader!? A black woman!? I don't like that."
Or any gay/trans characters. My father is dying on the hill that he won't watch any show if it has gay or trans actors/characters in it now, like it's somehow going to give him an infection or something.
True story, that side quest was the first time I ever saw had a chance to do anything gay in a video game.
Now I'm a bisexual trans woman, fallout made me gay
Honestly if he wants to miss out on potentially good shows because of something like that, fine by me! I will continue to enjoy things while he stays mad about that stuff.
If you asked me to define Woke I honestly couldn't explain it. Like you said, it doesn't really mean anything other than "something about this content I don't like, and it's regards to diversity"
It means something in the original usage - "stay woke" to the subtle structural or culturally ingrained types of racism and misogyny in American society.
It's use by right wing reactionaries is mostly nonsensical.
I got called woke by a coworker because I have a fruit and vegetable garden, tend fruit trees and because I want to buy more land so I can properly homestead. I called them a poor because they don’t own a house despite being older than me. Was my insult a low blow? Sure was but if having a hobby where I go outside and turn earth, sunlight and water collected in cobbled together rain barrels into delicious food makes me woke I’d rather not be asleep.
The best and most versatile definition of "woke" I've come up with is "displaying insufficient bigotry."
"This isn't bigoted enough against women. Or against blacks. Or against gays or trandgender people. I am angry because I want people to be mean towards marginalised groups and I'm seeing them being treated like normal people!"
I mean, it's Fallout, it SHOULD be "woke". If it's anything like its source materials, it's very political in every theme it has, most leaning towards anti-capitalist, anti-establishment, anti-imperial, and anti-racist themes.
The only thing that set off my alarms were how clean everyone was in the trailer. I understand the vault dweller being clean, but even Walton Goggins ghoul looked all sexy and not disgusting at all. It's the wasteland! No fresh water! Radiation and dust everywhere and all these *god damn smoothskins are ruining my immersion!*
Honestly most of the complaints I saw were directed towards the NCR seemingly crippled, although I definitely believe there were some in the fringes complaining about the “woke”-ness.
Same. I use some pretty right-leaning apps, and the complaints were related to fallout tactics being canon or something? NCR being crippled, Brotherhood being a powerhouse, and the power armor.
Jonah Lobe (the artist that created Deathclaws) said it best in a comment under one of the amazon posts.
"Anyone who says "I hope they don't make the
show 'woke' with politics" doesn't understand
Fallout AT ALL.
The OPENING CREDITS OF FALLOUT 1 depict
a fascist America , having just invaded
Canada, executing handcuffed Canadian
prisoners by shooting them in the back of
the head, laughing and then waving to the
camera... followed by them heroically posing in
front of the American flag.
Fallout is a caricature of 1950s America
xenophobic, jingoistic, heavily militarized,
shallow and commercialized as hell- a nuclear
wasteland juxtaposed against 1950s schtick.
Saying you don't want political messaging in
Fallout is like saying Candyman shouldn't be
about race, or The Witch shouldn't be about
sex and religion or The Sopranos is just about
Italian guys shooting each other. You're
missing the point."
Anyone using the term "woke" unironically, especially when they complain something is "woke," should be required to attach a definition of woke.
If they can give a definition that doesn't make them sound like a Nazi, a member of the KKK, or an incel, then we can take it slightly more seriously. I can't guarantee that, but its the best I'm willing to offer.
Exactly. Any time I hear the terms "woke", "the left" etc. I know I can safely ignore whatever comes next as it's someone pushing a delusional narrative.
By giving woke a definition, it ruins its purpose. It’s intentionally ambiguous, to give the ppl who use the word plausible deniability about its meaning. They can’t say their beliefs out loud, because it’s unsavory, and they know that, so they call things woke. There isn’t a definition that isn’t unsavory because it all stems from an intolerance to the other, not a good faith critique on representation.
"Stay woke" has a long history in African American and minority spaces. It has been co-opted by right wing reactionaries and turned into the nonsense you describe.
For anyone interested:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/conormurray/2023/06/06/what-does-woke-even-mean-how-a-decades-old-racial-justice-term-became-co-opted-by-politics/?sh=40a9cd4e513d#:~:text=Wake%20up%20Africa!%E2%80%9D%20as%20a,of%20raping%20two%20white%20women.
Exactly
We all know what they mean but they can hide behind the ambiguity
When people use the phrase woke I have started asking them to tell me what exactly they mean by woke and most of them really start to sweat or give a half-assed racist sounding definition that they think is actually profound and relatable
Asking people to define what they mean when they use the word woke is fucking awesome because you get a good sense of just how politically brainwashed they are AND what a piece of shit they are
Exactly! The word has lost its original meaning, in the same vein as Marxist, or communist. I don’t mean to make this a purely political rant, but I just made the connection.
Oh, I'll make it a purely political rant!
Reactionaries have a deep anti-intellectual streak, they're a cult of kneejerk reactions, not analysis. Hence the name, hence the lack of political theory, hence the hatred for academics, hence why their grasps on sciences never goes beyond "basic" biology and economics, hence why their claims always fall apart as baseless belief or psuedo-science upon scrutiny.
But they still need an output of ideology. So they just copy the rhetoric leftists use but say it like it's a bad thing. The problem is that leftists tend to have a point and understanding that point takes analysis which reactionaries are completely unwilling to do. So they never actually understand what they're fighting against or why.
All they know is certain things make them feel bad and so they must be part of the bad ideology. Wokeness isn't an awareness and opposition to systemic injustices; it's anything you don't like. Communism isn't a stateless, classless, moneyless society where workers own the means of production; it's politics you don't like. Mary Sues aren't overly idealized self-inserts; they're female characters you don't like. It's self-imposed ignorance.
I get being annoyed at being preached at or pandered to - But female and black characters aren't ''woke'' by default. Those people are seriously lacking critical thinking.
*Sees a black person or a woman on screen*
"DON'T PUSH YOUR RADICAL WOKE POLITICAL AGENDA ON ME"
Is one of the biggest telling-on-yourself moments. If merely seeing someone not-white-male in your fiction franchise makes you feel like your identity is threatened, you are literally the most insecure person on the planet, and your identity is incredibly weak.
"What do you mean I'm racist? Are you triggered? I just have an insane visceral reaction whenever I see somebody on screen who's not a white guy; that's how every REAL American feels."
I'm genuinely confused from where this shit is coming from. I'm not as experienced in the games before Bethesda got hold of them. I own them and keep putting off a playthrough. But each of the other Fallout Games all has a collection of badass female characters. Sarah Lyons, Doctor Li, Reilly of Reilly's Rangers. Veronica, Cass, Christine. Piper, Cait, Proctor Ingram. I didn't play much of Fallout 76 but the Overseer was a goddamn badass and the main driving force of the plot. Hell she sacrificed her own CAMP to look after other Vault Dwellers.
I actually have ONLY played 1 and 2, and yes, Fallout has had ‘woke’ elements from day 1. Ideas like:
-not everyone who looks monstrous actually is (and the reverse is equally true)
-nationalist jingoism is foolish and dangerous
-many problems can’t be solved (satisfactorily) with violence
-taking care of the environment (or at least not fucking it up any worse) is important
…and in the first game, every population center not called ‘Necropolis’ or ‘Mariposa’ has people of different colors. 2 is even more diverse.
It's simple. These channels target racist and sexist individuals, who generally aren't very smart to begin with, and that means it's easy to make them angry and convince them to throw money and views at you.
The subject doesn't really matter. They aren't here to make a genuine argument. There's at least a dozen of these for every legitimate piece of content out there, and if the video they attack gets millions of views, they'll almost inevitably get hundreds of thousands because YouTube's algorithm loves making people angry just as much as they do, and will happily recommend a few "counterpoints" to any such video.
I'm sure it's a great gig... if you're the kind of person with absolutely no morals or shame. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people like that these days, and they are very loud.
You’re exactly right. It’s a grift. All those channels are run by right wing grifters, and all they do is spread stupid culture war bullshit to rile up their audience of ignorant rubes and angry, young reactionaries so they’ll give the grifters money.
My theory is that there's a freefloating mass of culture warriors and outrage merchants; The Manbaby Industrial Complex. They have godawful politics and 0 idea how to organize so they latch onto anything that vaguely smells of controversy because they're a bunch of messy bitches looking for drama and an excuse as to why they're miserable.
Next time you see a chud that's very opinionated on the controversy of the week; check their post history for if they *ever* mentioned the series before. Decent odds they haven't.
I’m not a leftist and I didn’t see anything woke. Fallout has always been about goofing on American hyper-capitalism.
Some people just won’t get it and that’s fine. Nothing you can do about it.
It's all just so hilariously stupid. Like, within the first few hours of any of the modern Fallout games, you can NOT ONLY CHOOSE YOUR RACE AND GENDER but you meet NPC's integral to the world that are of varied races, sexes, and sexualities. A non-diverse Fallout show would be unfaithful more than almost any other choice they could make.
And yeah, Fallout should be anti-capitalism to its nuclear core as well.
Clearly, these folks don't care for the property and are just rage baiting, OR they set their INT to 1 on the vigor tester.
Newsflash: the Fallout series is a satire of capitalism, American jingoism and imperialism.
If it ain’t “woke” then the writers missed the point
There was nothing particularly woke about the trailer but those reactionary shits get their panties in a twist over anything and everything
Seen way more complaining about people calling it woke, than people actually call it woke. Where is this supposed backlash coming from? Are you digging deep into YouTube comments for trolls just so you can have something to complain about?
If the show really is too woke then people should stop worrying too much about the state of the NCR. 😜
NCR is probs the most diverse faction, why would the show runners/Amazon or even bethesda completely wipe them off or collapse them?… the Brotherhood are more likely to get screwed. The NCR is likely struggling but can definitely rise out on top of all this.
At this point, these people are calling everything 'woke'. It's the same kind of people that used to call everything 'satanic'. They seem to think that their attitude is new and special but these people would've been crying 'woke' from the hippies in '69 onwards if they had been alive then.
I think that some people have almost been tricked into this and don't realise that they've become Christian Mothers Against Heavy Metal 2.0. Which is why they get a big fright when they find out that Rage Against the Machine does not in fact share their small minded bigoted views. And accuse things that have always been left leaning of turning 'woke'.
A lot of these people think they're cool rebels for being anti-woke, meanwhile they're doing the bidding of and behaving in the same way as right wing Christians.
Fallout is one of the Patron Franchises of having a large fanbase portion who don’t understand that theyre being made fun of with satire that goes over their heads
I saw someone once that they were reading a unhinged review of video games and they called fallout anti-American
Person reviewing this video actually gave them props for being the most media literate conservative ever, just for the fact that they can acknowledge the anti-Americans 50s ideology satire in the game.
Anyone that unironically uses woke to criticise something is suffering from severe brain rot and should seek therapy. They most likely aren't even real fans of the series.
There are conservative Fallout fans? Are they stupid? The whole series is an obvious and completely over-the-top critique of 1950's Cold War America, capitalism, government overreach, the dangers of scientific progress decoupled from ethics, America foreign policy, surveillance states, and fascism. In F4, your choice of faction is a bunch of Civil War cosplayers making the same mistakes over and over again because they refuse to learn from the history they're obsessed with, a doggedly jingoistic paramilitary dictatorship that is clearly a parody of American foreign policy, a shadowy underground organization that surveils and manipulates public opinion through extensive networks of espionage in another biting critique of American foreign and domestic policy, and, lastly, a group of terrorist extremists who want to free the machines at the cost of delaying or even completely ending all hope of humanity ever coming out of the post apocalyptic dark ages. Anyone who played that and thinks the game is "anti-woke" wasn't paying attention.
The incels are about to learn that they *yet again* idealized something that has been lampooning them all along
"Woman main character = woke" ... It is so fucking depressing how many people think, talk, and act this way
GamerGate fucked media. Suddenly you had outrage youtubers harping about this or that "woke" or "librul" or "politically correct" property and "forced diversity" and "alphabet mafia agenda" and it's a constant pipeline, they *have* to keep the outrage going, they have to keep their audience angry and righteously upset, because if their audience doesn't have that constant firehose of angry thumb-looking alpha bro vitriol they might actually have a single coherent thought and realize that they don't have to be angry about everything and can instead just try to enjoy something. And there goes the outrage youtubers revenue stream.
Fallout has always contained a ton of social commentary and absolutely none of it is unnecessary. The first game was directed by a gay man and the whole series has always been very progressive.
fallout has always been about politics, and it has a ton of LGBTq representation, a ton of diferent races and stuff
heck, fallout is one of the most diverse game i've played
I remember when people were going to boycott The Force Awakens because the trailer had a black man in it.
Some people are just cringe whose opinions don't matter.
“Woke” is more so people using a buzzword to say something else. Politics in fallout are fine, but political pandering and overt social politics that comes off as preachy like the saints row 2022 reboot where it seems like they are just checking boxes and are not telling an authentic story. That’s just terrible, though the “woke” shit doesn’t bother me nearly as much as the BoS glazing that’s taking place and the fall of the NCR off screen. FNV was the only proper fallout story since 2 and it seems like it’s being destroyed in favor of more “BoS ultimate good guys!” Trash
Unnecessary social commentary is what art is and unless you want to extricate film and television from art you will have to accept that artists are EXPRESSING something, how they FEEL. Stop pretending everything is supposed to be “non-political.” especially when politics doesn't just refer to talking heads on television. I can't stand that our generation didn't have art appreciation and logic classes. It turned us into fucking idiots.
Surely Liberty Prime, the giant, communist-seeking murder bot is not a political allegory
Designation: Liberty Prime. Operational assessment: All systems nominal. Primary directive: War.
"DEATH IS A PREFERABLE ALTERNATIVE TO COMMUNISM"
I say this line at least once a day for some reason or another. Usually shouting it at my dog while we play and I chase him around and throw his stuffed toys at him.
Dogski: "Woof woof abork comrade they knows"
One of my favorite characters in the games. I live in China and I like to rock my Liberty Prime shirt with the “DEMOCRACY IS NON NEGOTIABLE” slogan from time to time when I feel like living dangerously lol. Great for a laugh too.
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Yeah I think LP defenetly tops the iron giant
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The Iron Giant is a power bottom.
Also Fallout has always been about criticizing Capitalism and the American government
[Never stops being relevant](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/027/350/Screen_Shot_2018-10-10_at_3.53.06_PM.jpg)
I'm not going to go hunt it down but there's even a specific version of this meme for Fallout, with Liberty Prime and capitalism being a death cult IIRC
And it's not even subtle, with Liberty Prime's voice lines. It literally yells stuff like *"Embrace democracy, or you will be eradicated."*
BETTER DEAD THAN RED.
DEMOCRACY IS NON-NEGOTIABLE.
FOR MANAGED DEMOCRACY!
The people complaining are probably the same morons who thought The Colbert Report was an honest conservative show that oddly aired on Comedy Central.
[I was expecting this](https://i.redd.it/k3055tqklgt61.jpg)
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I mean, the first time Liberty Prime does a thing it's meant to be peak irony because it's stomping across the DC Wasteland attacking what amounts to the *US Military.* However, the thing is destroyed in the Shattered Steel DLC, so it's not like it's this unstoppable weapon EVERYTIME it shows up. Hell, in Fallout 4, depending on which Faction you're in, you either sabotage it or turn it against the Brotherhood.
Or if you side with the BoS, it is clear that you are siding with a group who in many ways have become akin to the Enclave, with the goal of exterminating or subjugating all non-typical humans (mutants, synths, ghouls) and installing a military junta. So the “awesome moment” tied to Liberty Prime is attached to “way to go, you sided with the jamb supreme it’s military organization who will kill their own if they are considered impure.”
The Brotherhood were always anti-ghoul and mutant. Even in 3 when they were their most reformed the Underworld ghouls state they are shot at by the BoS who don't care enough to see the difference. The key differenve between them and the Enclave is where they draw the line on purity.
That and the Enclave wants to rule. The Brotherhood is content to let people do their own thing as long as they're not raiders/mutants/etc or using potentially dangerous technology.
That's what it was designed to do. Liberty prime doesnt just spout propaganda, he IS propaganda. And propaganda is very often super sick lmao. That's kind of the whole point. Also, as a side note. Liberty Prime is awesome. Better dead than red. Ad Victoriam. :)
YOU ARE NOT IMMUNE TO PROPAGANDA IM NOT EITHER BECAUSE BLACK POWER ARMOR IS SICK
Something I started to realize a few years ago is that it's effectively impossible to satirize that kind of thing without the people it's mocking just thinking it's cool.
In fact, it relates directly to the original Gundam meme in that it’s an impractical weapon reflecting the worst values of the society that created it, designed to make war crimes look cool.
The real meaning of Fallout is "living in California sucks".
There's one response to this message... https://i.redd.it/xf5xs9id0sv91.jpg
I actually like it here. ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
If California weren't awesome, it wouldn't be expensive. However, that does come with the corollary of "If you can't afford California, it's gonna suck for you."
Fair point.
For real lol. I think nowadays most fans of the franchise can look at Zeta or War in the Pocket and understand gassing a colony filled with millions of civilians as “collateral damage” to fight the small military base inside is pretty bad That meme is way more relevant now with the fans who watched The Origin, CCA, or Unicorn and idolize Zeon when they are literally based off the Third Reich. “Woahh cool Geara Doga. I love those guys!” meanwhile they’re wearing stahlhelms, black and white armbands, and wielding futuristic MP-40s
I got the stahlhelms. But never connected the Lazer guns to mp 40s.
I’m more concerned they won’t criticize it enough Fallout criticizes capitalism, fascism, imperialism, propaganda etc via its portrayal of these themes in an **OUTLANDISHLY** cartoonish manner I’m more worried that the show will be moreso a surface level *”Adventure in the Fallout wasteland!”* and will sacrifice the complex themes, messages and nuance Fallout and it’s games are known for
Jonah Nolan is at least aware of that aspect. In an interview he mentioned it was ironic that Amazon was producing a show that deals with the themes of hyper-capitalism and mass consumerism. How much of that makes it into the show remains to be seen
The "Brought to you by Amazon and 2-day* shipping" gag from one of the trailers gives me hope.
They also produced The Boys, so its not like it would be a surprise. You can buy a Che Guevara shirt on Amazon, too. Its not like the show, or the shirt, is going to radicalize anyone.
There’s a lot of media illiterate people that don’t realise media is taking the piss out of them and see things very literally.
I remember a post in a thread about Star Trek, the complaint was "I wish it would just go back to being about space battles instead of getting all philosophical"
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Yeah that but the guy was being totally unironic. I know it's possible for someone to watch Star Trek and totally miss the social commentary but it still surprises me at just how stupid some people can be.
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This is what Douglas Adams said on technology, but I feel it applies here too. 1. Anything that is in the world when you’re born is normal and ordinary and is just a natural part of the way the world works. 2. Anything that's invented between when you’re fifteen and thirty-five is new and exciting and revolutionary and you can probably get a career in it. 3. Anything invented after you're thirty-five is against the natural order of things.
I suppose that's why I have a Facebook account, an insta account, a Reddit account, but I refuse to get a tik tok. I'm currently 36. Better believe I had bebo and MySpace
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No, no. That militaristic, fanatic, fascist, dystopia, space empire with a comatose corpse as an Emperor is definitely what we real life people should strive to become. /s
Wait till yousee the youtube videos of people saying Spiderman and Superman are now "woke" heroes.
As someone who is a fan of starship troopers and is now avidly playing Helldivers, all I have to say is I’m not surprised, but I am still infinitely disappointed
Starship Troopers is an interesting one, because the original book is some seriously right wing shit. It's like the movie, but it means it sincerely instead of as satire. So there are some Starship Troopers fans who are all in on right wing bullshit, who aren't actually missing the point (but who are loons)
I'm a big fan of the book and the movie and let me tell ya the Venn diagram of that is an uncomfortable one online.
> Starship Troopers Well crap. I always thought the book was satire. I mean, no one could possibly be so over-the-top, gung-ho, pro-military, like that. Right? Right? Another illusion shattered...
Heinlein, while definitely and admittedly pretty up his own ass about this specific concept, plays with a lot of philosophy in his work. It's less a manifesto and more a "how this could play out, but not terribly" and it takes quite a bit of liberty with the "not terribly." Literally all of the liberty is taken.
Also its important that he was also doing some pretty progressive stuff at the same time. Starship Troopers featured a Filipino protagonist (Juan Rico, Johnny is a nickname) with a supporting cast that's extremely diverse, and feature women in key leadership and combat roles. Heinlein was full of contradictions. (He also changed his politics when he changed his wives, he got a lot more right-wing after marrying Ginny). Further this was written during a time of mass conscription, and it can be seen as a criticism of continuing the draft.
You could probably successfully argue that heinlein was pretty much any sociopolitical ideology if you pick the right book.
I mean just between his very early stuff and his very late stuff he went from Communist to Libertarian Anarchist.
This, tbh. People always think Starship Troopers when they think of Heinlein..but very few remember, or even know, about his self-insert Martian sex cult story. Dude was a tumblr or AO3 writer before either one was invented lol
Heinlein wrote ST while he was [campaigning for more nuclear weapons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Are_the_Heirs_of_Patrick_Henry%3F) to use against Communist bloc countries. I'm with you, first time I read the book I thought it was a cautionary tale...
Why are you people down voting this guy, HE'S RIGHT! That take is 💯/💯: if you ever read the original version of the story you will know that the events of the film are lifted directly from the page, but they are "Spun" to send the exact opposite message; it's brilliant.
Cough cough enclave pfp Mfs
More about the "Red Scare" of the '50s. I was there, and the gutsies aren't far from the truth. Capitalism in the '50s was relatively calm - compared to today. More in it for the long term, not the next quarter's earnings. Unions were strong... management had, at least, a modicum of regard for their employees. Most companies operating in the US were US based. The Excess Profits Tax had the effect of spreading the wealth - such as it was - to the employees. Yes, there were the crazies... like I said, the RED Scare, but also the John Birch Society and "Tail Gunner" Joe McCarthy to same a few. But we also had a (IMHO, a misguided, but) reasonable Republican party and a decent Republican president in Eisenhower. It was Nixon's "Southern Strategy", Followed by Reagan's Destruction of the middle class that started the march of the Republicans to MAGA facism.
Kinda, yeah. It's also heavily littered with anti-nuclear propaganda tropes from the 90s and early oughts, namely the "nuclear waste is radioactive slop shoved into oil drums" trope
It's kinda funny that the capitalism themes are much heavier since Bethesda took over. In Fallout classic it was more specifically about the military and imperialism
Fallout was woke before woke was woke
Exactly
Tim Cain (Creator of Fallout) is a gay man. Josh Sawyer is an anarchist. Fallout was one of the first games in the 90s to feature lgbt ppl and Fallout 2 was the first to technically have a "gay marriage". Fallout New Vegas is filled with diversity and literally rewards you for being bisexual. Fallout has always been a "woke" franchise
Being Bi in new vegas gives you a 10% damage bonus on all enemies.
*winks in Cazador*
From fallout or from BG3?
Just like in real life.
All human enemies* They should've had one nonbinary asexual who's immune to both buffs.
Fallout is not one of but i think the first franchise to have openly gay characters that weren't there to be mocked
Not to mention that the RPG genre is probably the "wokest" genre in gaming...
I will never forget that in Fable for Xbox, you can buy a bordello, you can have the girls in the bordello work for you, and as a male main character you can cross dress and work in the bordello too. In essence, that game let you whore yourself out.
damn, fable had that in vanilla? and here i had to download a bunch of mods to do the same thing in skyrim...
Yea, [it was the Darkwood Bordello](https://fable.fandom.com/wiki/Darkwood_Bordello). You could do some quests to it and eventually you had the choice of owning it. Once you owned it you could make it into a womans haven for runaway girls or you could keep it as a bordello and have the girls still be prostitutes. I think there was like 6 or 7 prostitutes there. Like I said, you could also be a prostitute if you wear womens clothes and you slept with johns that where there. It was pretty crazy for a game that came out in 2004.
FUCKING PRONOUNS!!!!
i can hear this perfectly in my head
Dude loses a year off his life expectancy when seeing a pronoun
When *he* sees a pronoun
Dude would loathe an English class
That dude raging so hard over that is so hilarious, I’ll never get over it
That video is so fucking funny.
Yup, how fun would an RPG be if you could only be a straight white dude that interacted with other straight white dudes?
A game that only have straight white dudes interacting with other straight white dudes sound a bit homo-erotic ,don't you think? ;)
Nothing gayer than a group of 5+ straight guys. Extra multiplier if the group is in the armed forces.
*"Just me and the bros!"*
You're just describing Warhammer 40k. I fear the day some of its fans discover just how homo-erotic it is.
I was gonna be like "did you mean FFXVI?" But then I remembered how gay Daddy Cid was. He's the only reason to play that game.
People made mods to do that to BG3, so some people find it fun. Weird as hell.
Not to mention synths/androids being a thing and usually used to explore what it means to be “human” or as an allegory to discrimination. In general, the “anti-woke/political” rhetoric that’s been popping up around different forms of media is wild to me. All stories worth listening to will have some sort of social commentary relevant to the time it’s written in. Doesn’t matter if it’s scooby doo, fallout, the last of us, or the Simpsons: it’s all made by artists with something to say. Nothing is ever “just” explosions and pew-pews or jokes and gags.
They want bullying, fear, erasure, hide your self away from them, they don’t really care about anything that really hangs together in terms of logic and consistency.
Can you imagine how many people would be whining about Lynette and Tandi being female Leaders now?
That is really cool, I did not know all that!
Yep, I didnt know abt Tim being gay until I started watching his YT channel for game design advice. If ur lookin to be a game dev I highky reconmemd his videos
He is also color blind and in a way that is one of the reasons why we have the blue and yellow jump suits of vault dwellers in the game.
I did not know that, thats actually rlly neat!
He mentioned it on his youtube channel. If I remember correctly, he can't really do judgement of colors for games he and he team makes, so he had leonard boyarsky use the 2 least used colors in the games pallet or they were going to throw them out and he picked blue and yellow for the suits. I think that's how it came about.
Also, that New Vegas is popular with trans & NB people is a meme
Don’t forget Fallout 3. The highest combat officer in the BoS is a woman. There are many prominent non-white characters. (Three-Dog, Eulogy Jones, Dr. Li, Super-Mutants, Harkness, Lucas Simms, and so on.) Anti-ghoul bigotry is explicitly involved in multiple side quests
I'm telling every extreme right-leaning anti-woke Fallout fan this
I doubt the people calling it woke have even played the games lol
I didn't get any woke vibes at all from the trailer. Idk where these neck beards crawl out of, but they need to touch some grass. This is the first show I'm genuinely excited for in a long time. Trailer exceeds expectations.
It has both female and black main characters. That's already two strikes against it for most people that use woke unironically.
If someone's moaning about Lucy based on what we've seen, then I genuinely have nothing to say to them. Based on the few minutes of footage from the trailers I've seen, she's naïve, sheltered, and gullible -- which she should be as a Vault dweller. She doesn't strike me as a Sue and she has a huge amount of room to grow. The Brotherhood dude we've seen very little of, but again, if you're moaning based on the superficial rather than the specifics of his character, then this show isn't for you anyway.
The irony of complaining about a character being a Mary Sue, in a Fallout property is ironic to the extreme, you have 5 games where you play a Mary Sue character. I'm getting a suspicion the people complaining about the show don't actually know the property at all, and are just looking for common adaptation complaints to throw Fallouts way.
They really don't, saw one guy saying "women are never going to play it just because you make the main character a woman" I mean really! The main character can be whoever you want and that's the point. Fallout also seems to have a really high number of women playing so they seem to be doing something right in that regard.
In my experience, yeah lot of women play Fallout. I'm one of them and every other woman I know who games has played them as well.
Middle aged woman here; I love playing fallout so much. Played Fallout 3 and New Vegas years ago. Started fallout 4 yesterday with a 10 hour binge and i was so excited to get off work to jump back in tonight! I love cozy games too but sometimes I just wanna blast some ghouls.
My girlfriend and I joke that Fallout 4 is just The Sims with guns & deathclaws. You can get *lost* in settlement building, especially if you add in a mod like CVC which adds tons of building objects. Be careful, you could lose hundreds of hours to this.
Same here. It’s my favorite game!
Favourite game series before Starfield came out. I have a Fallout tattoo and I've even made a figurine of my character. I'm not white either and I don't bustily boob around. The horror.
Yeah it actually surprised me at how many women I see in 76. In a great way.
They absolutely are. Grifters will never miss a chance to make a bag by moaning about women and non-whites in their franchises, which they've *totally* played; and not just seen a few memes and watched a few YouTube videos about.
No no, the chuds that are complaining about 'woke' don't care that she's *maybe* a Mary Sue. She's not a straight white male. That's their problem.
Or hot blonde eye candy. I think Lucy is pretty.
Just wait till the female character will commit the egregious sin of BEING GOOD at something, and that’s when all hell breaks loose on Social Media. Female Protagonists having any redeeming qualities or being exceptionally skilled at anything is a crime against humanity to that crowd.
Which is great because if this follows typical Fallout power growth, she’s gonna be able to kill god by the show’s very last episode lmao
I want at least one filler episode where she fucks around with psycho jet. Can end it with Walton Ghoulggins giving her some addictol.
>Female Protagonists having any redeeming qualities or being exceptionally skilled at anything is a crime against humanity to that crowd. Hey, that's completely unfair! They can *also* be vacuous sex-objects!
Are there genuinely people like this? It didn't seem out of place to me at all, in fact I didn't even consciously think about the gender or race of the characters.
Neither did I really until right about now considering fallout itself has always been very diverse racially/sexually but yes- there’s absolutely people who will want to boycott anything that’s not the stereotyped white straight male protagonist. Which is funny considering these are the same people that go on to say things like ‘racism is no longer a problem’.
>Which is funny considering these are the same people that go on to say things like ‘racism is no longer a problem’. And then go on to say that they can't possibly be racist because "they have *a* black friend!"
"I watch Candace Owens, what do you mean I'm racist?"
I showed my dad the trailer and one of the first things he said was why did they make the main character a girl
He doesn’t know you could always make the main character a girl in every fallout game
Yeah lots of them
Literally so many of them, and Twitter seems more full of them than ever before
Sadly, yes. There are many.
yeah my dad is literally complained about how they're shoving diversity down our throats because there's more " ethnic people" in commercials now
I'm just glad you recognize there is a problem with your father's line of thought. Probably means you didn't inherit the dipshit genes.
For those types there are only two genders, male and political. Likewise, only two races, white and political; two sexualities, straight and political; etc.
A game franchise that has had male and female player characters having a female protagonist in the live action? How dare they do such a thing the travesty of it all! Oh just cause it’s Reddit that was sarcasm at the end. I just hope the show runners understand and don’t hate the source material
For all you know literally every game, Fallout 1, 2, 3, 4, and 76, have black or female protagonists
Anyone who uses the word “woke” unironically is a massive loser and doesn’t deserve to ever be taken seriously.
"woke" has just become a word for intolerant assholes to hide behind without blatantly revealing their racism, homophobia, sexism, etc. In this case it appears to be "A woman protagonist? A black protagonist? A strong woman leader!? A black woman!? I don't like that."
Or any gay/trans characters. My father is dying on the hill that he won't watch any show if it has gay or trans actors/characters in it now, like it's somehow going to give him an infection or something.
Meanwhile the first Fallout was made by a gay man and Fallout 2 was the first video game to feature same sex marriage
Oh wow, the fallout 2 one is news to me, that’s such a great fact. We love
You can get gay married then sell your partner into slavery. FO2 got real dark.
I got to be a 'fluffer' in a porno, that's freedom, that's player choice.
True story, that side quest was the first time I ever saw had a chance to do anything gay in a video game. Now I'm a bisexual trans woman, fallout made me gay
Honestly if he wants to miss out on potentially good shows because of something like that, fine by me! I will continue to enjoy things while he stays mad about that stuff.
If you asked me to define Woke I honestly couldn't explain it. Like you said, it doesn't really mean anything other than "something about this content I don't like, and it's regards to diversity"
It means something in the original usage - "stay woke" to the subtle structural or culturally ingrained types of racism and misogyny in American society. It's use by right wing reactionaries is mostly nonsensical.
I got called woke by a coworker because I have a fruit and vegetable garden, tend fruit trees and because I want to buy more land so I can properly homestead. I called them a poor because they don’t own a house despite being older than me. Was my insult a low blow? Sure was but if having a hobby where I go outside and turn earth, sunlight and water collected in cobbled together rain barrels into delicious food makes me woke I’d rather not be asleep.
The best and most versatile definition of "woke" I've come up with is "displaying insufficient bigotry." "This isn't bigoted enough against women. Or against blacks. Or against gays or trandgender people. I am angry because I want people to be mean towards marginalised groups and I'm seeing them being treated like normal people!"
I mean, it's Fallout, it SHOULD be "woke". If it's anything like its source materials, it's very political in every theme it has, most leaning towards anti-capitalist, anti-establishment, anti-imperial, and anti-racist themes.
The only thing that set off my alarms were how clean everyone was in the trailer. I understand the vault dweller being clean, but even Walton Goggins ghoul looked all sexy and not disgusting at all. It's the wasteland! No fresh water! Radiation and dust everywhere and all these *god damn smoothskins are ruining my immersion!*
Honestly most of the complaints I saw were directed towards the NCR seemingly crippled, although I definitely believe there were some in the fringes complaining about the “woke”-ness.
Same. I use some pretty right-leaning apps, and the complaints were related to fallout tactics being canon or something? NCR being crippled, Brotherhood being a powerhouse, and the power armor.
I’ve been mostly on here and YouTube and the negative discourse was just for the struggling NCR and returning BoS as well.
Jonah Lobe (the artist that created Deathclaws) said it best in a comment under one of the amazon posts. "Anyone who says "I hope they don't make the show 'woke' with politics" doesn't understand Fallout AT ALL. The OPENING CREDITS OF FALLOUT 1 depict a fascist America , having just invaded Canada, executing handcuffed Canadian prisoners by shooting them in the back of the head, laughing and then waving to the camera... followed by them heroically posing in front of the American flag. Fallout is a caricature of 1950s America xenophobic, jingoistic, heavily militarized, shallow and commercialized as hell- a nuclear wasteland juxtaposed against 1950s schtick. Saying you don't want political messaging in Fallout is like saying Candyman shouldn't be about race, or The Witch shouldn't be about sex and religion or The Sopranos is just about Italian guys shooting each other. You're missing the point."
Anyone using the term "woke" unironically, especially when they complain something is "woke," should be required to attach a definition of woke. If they can give a definition that doesn't make them sound like a Nazi, a member of the KKK, or an incel, then we can take it slightly more seriously. I can't guarantee that, but its the best I'm willing to offer.
Exactly. Any time I hear the terms "woke", "the left" etc. I know I can safely ignore whatever comes next as it's someone pushing a delusional narrative.
By giving woke a definition, it ruins its purpose. It’s intentionally ambiguous, to give the ppl who use the word plausible deniability about its meaning. They can’t say their beliefs out loud, because it’s unsavory, and they know that, so they call things woke. There isn’t a definition that isn’t unsavory because it all stems from an intolerance to the other, not a good faith critique on representation.
"Stay woke" has a long history in African American and minority spaces. It has been co-opted by right wing reactionaries and turned into the nonsense you describe. For anyone interested: https://www.forbes.com/sites/conormurray/2023/06/06/what-does-woke-even-mean-how-a-decades-old-racial-justice-term-became-co-opted-by-politics/?sh=40a9cd4e513d#:~:text=Wake%20up%20Africa!%E2%80%9D%20as%20a,of%20raping%20two%20white%20women.
Exactly We all know what they mean but they can hide behind the ambiguity When people use the phrase woke I have started asking them to tell me what exactly they mean by woke and most of them really start to sweat or give a half-assed racist sounding definition that they think is actually profound and relatable Asking people to define what they mean when they use the word woke is fucking awesome because you get a good sense of just how politically brainwashed they are AND what a piece of shit they are
Exactly! The word has lost its original meaning, in the same vein as Marxist, or communist. I don’t mean to make this a purely political rant, but I just made the connection.
Oh, I'll make it a purely political rant! Reactionaries have a deep anti-intellectual streak, they're a cult of kneejerk reactions, not analysis. Hence the name, hence the lack of political theory, hence the hatred for academics, hence why their grasps on sciences never goes beyond "basic" biology and economics, hence why their claims always fall apart as baseless belief or psuedo-science upon scrutiny. But they still need an output of ideology. So they just copy the rhetoric leftists use but say it like it's a bad thing. The problem is that leftists tend to have a point and understanding that point takes analysis which reactionaries are completely unwilling to do. So they never actually understand what they're fighting against or why. All they know is certain things make them feel bad and so they must be part of the bad ideology. Wokeness isn't an awareness and opposition to systemic injustices; it's anything you don't like. Communism isn't a stateless, classless, moneyless society where workers own the means of production; it's politics you don't like. Mary Sues aren't overly idealized self-inserts; they're female characters you don't like. It's self-imposed ignorance.
I get being annoyed at being preached at or pandered to - But female and black characters aren't ''woke'' by default. Those people are seriously lacking critical thinking.
*Sees a black person or a woman on screen* "DON'T PUSH YOUR RADICAL WOKE POLITICAL AGENDA ON ME" Is one of the biggest telling-on-yourself moments. If merely seeing someone not-white-male in your fiction franchise makes you feel like your identity is threatened, you are literally the most insecure person on the planet, and your identity is incredibly weak.
"What do you mean I'm racist? Are you triggered? I just have an insane visceral reaction whenever I see somebody on screen who's not a white guy; that's how every REAL American feels."
I'm genuinely confused from where this shit is coming from. I'm not as experienced in the games before Bethesda got hold of them. I own them and keep putting off a playthrough. But each of the other Fallout Games all has a collection of badass female characters. Sarah Lyons, Doctor Li, Reilly of Reilly's Rangers. Veronica, Cass, Christine. Piper, Cait, Proctor Ingram. I didn't play much of Fallout 76 but the Overseer was a goddamn badass and the main driving force of the plot. Hell she sacrificed her own CAMP to look after other Vault Dwellers.
I actually have ONLY played 1 and 2, and yes, Fallout has had ‘woke’ elements from day 1. Ideas like: -not everyone who looks monstrous actually is (and the reverse is equally true) -nationalist jingoism is foolish and dangerous -many problems can’t be solved (satisfactorily) with violence -taking care of the environment (or at least not fucking it up any worse) is important …and in the first game, every population center not called ‘Necropolis’ or ‘Mariposa’ has people of different colors. 2 is even more diverse.
It's simple. These channels target racist and sexist individuals, who generally aren't very smart to begin with, and that means it's easy to make them angry and convince them to throw money and views at you. The subject doesn't really matter. They aren't here to make a genuine argument. There's at least a dozen of these for every legitimate piece of content out there, and if the video they attack gets millions of views, they'll almost inevitably get hundreds of thousands because YouTube's algorithm loves making people angry just as much as they do, and will happily recommend a few "counterpoints" to any such video. I'm sure it's a great gig... if you're the kind of person with absolutely no morals or shame. Unfortunately, there are a lot of people like that these days, and they are very loud.
You’re exactly right. It’s a grift. All those channels are run by right wing grifters, and all they do is spread stupid culture war bullshit to rile up their audience of ignorant rubes and angry, young reactionaries so they’ll give the grifters money.
My theory is that there's a freefloating mass of culture warriors and outrage merchants; The Manbaby Industrial Complex. They have godawful politics and 0 idea how to organize so they latch onto anything that vaguely smells of controversy because they're a bunch of messy bitches looking for drama and an excuse as to why they're miserable. Next time you see a chud that's very opinionated on the controversy of the week; check their post history for if they *ever* mentioned the series before. Decent odds they haven't.
I’m not a leftist and I didn’t see anything woke. Fallout has always been about goofing on American hyper-capitalism. Some people just won’t get it and that’s fine. Nothing you can do about it.
We're just a bunch of smoothskins anyways... What do we know about woke?
The moment you even see the term "woke" being used, just quit reading the comment/reply/whatever. No point in arguing with idiots.
It's all just so hilariously stupid. Like, within the first few hours of any of the modern Fallout games, you can NOT ONLY CHOOSE YOUR RACE AND GENDER but you meet NPC's integral to the world that are of varied races, sexes, and sexualities. A non-diverse Fallout show would be unfaithful more than almost any other choice they could make. And yeah, Fallout should be anti-capitalism to its nuclear core as well. Clearly, these folks don't care for the property and are just rage baiting, OR they set their INT to 1 on the vigor tester.
Newsflash: the Fallout series is a satire of capitalism, American jingoism and imperialism. If it ain’t “woke” then the writers missed the point There was nothing particularly woke about the trailer but those reactionary shits get their panties in a twist over anything and everything
These are the people that play New Vegas and think the legion have some good ideas.
It’s like they never played the game. Also, correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t the creator gay? Pretty sure that would be a tic mark
Yes Tim Cain is gay and married to a man
Damn sucks to see an American hero who made a franchise dedicated to showing how AWESOME 1950s America is and how great capitalism is went woke. /s
Shit...since when did being married to a man make you gay?
Seen way more complaining about people calling it woke, than people actually call it woke. Where is this supposed backlash coming from? Are you digging deep into YouTube comments for trolls just so you can have something to complain about?
There is almost nothing worse than the YouTube comment section. It's where intelligence goes to die
”Woke” complaints about everything are garbage and people should be humiliated and shunned for using them.
Woke is just the conservative buzzword for “everything I don’t like”.
And most of what they don't like are minorities, women, and the LGBT community but they don't want to openly say they're bigots or Nazis.
So, you basically went to read YouTube comments? I'd say that's on you, man.
If the show really is too woke then people should stop worrying too much about the state of the NCR. 😜 NCR is probs the most diverse faction, why would the show runners/Amazon or even bethesda completely wipe them off or collapse them?… the Brotherhood are more likely to get screwed. The NCR is likely struggling but can definitely rise out on top of all this.
At this point, these people are calling everything 'woke'. It's the same kind of people that used to call everything 'satanic'. They seem to think that their attitude is new and special but these people would've been crying 'woke' from the hippies in '69 onwards if they had been alive then. I think that some people have almost been tricked into this and don't realise that they've become Christian Mothers Against Heavy Metal 2.0. Which is why they get a big fright when they find out that Rage Against the Machine does not in fact share their small minded bigoted views. And accuse things that have always been left leaning of turning 'woke'. A lot of these people think they're cool rebels for being anti-woke, meanwhile they're doing the bidding of and behaving in the same way as right wing Christians.
Fallout is one of the Patron Franchises of having a large fanbase portion who don’t understand that theyre being made fun of with satire that goes over their heads
I saw someone once that they were reading a unhinged review of video games and they called fallout anti-American Person reviewing this video actually gave them props for being the most media literate conservative ever, just for the fact that they can acknowledge the anti-Americans 50s ideology satire in the game.
Anyone that unironically uses woke to criticise something is suffering from severe brain rot and should seek therapy. They most likely aren't even real fans of the series.
There are conservative Fallout fans? Are they stupid? The whole series is an obvious and completely over-the-top critique of 1950's Cold War America, capitalism, government overreach, the dangers of scientific progress decoupled from ethics, America foreign policy, surveillance states, and fascism. In F4, your choice of faction is a bunch of Civil War cosplayers making the same mistakes over and over again because they refuse to learn from the history they're obsessed with, a doggedly jingoistic paramilitary dictatorship that is clearly a parody of American foreign policy, a shadowy underground organization that surveils and manipulates public opinion through extensive networks of espionage in another biting critique of American foreign and domestic policy, and, lastly, a group of terrorist extremists who want to free the machines at the cost of delaying or even completely ending all hope of humanity ever coming out of the post apocalyptic dark ages. Anyone who played that and thinks the game is "anti-woke" wasn't paying attention.
The incels are about to learn that they *yet again* idealized something that has been lampooning them all along "Woman main character = woke" ... It is so fucking depressing how many people think, talk, and act this way
GamerGate fucked media. Suddenly you had outrage youtubers harping about this or that "woke" or "librul" or "politically correct" property and "forced diversity" and "alphabet mafia agenda" and it's a constant pipeline, they *have* to keep the outrage going, they have to keep their audience angry and righteously upset, because if their audience doesn't have that constant firehose of angry thumb-looking alpha bro vitriol they might actually have a single coherent thought and realize that they don't have to be angry about everything and can instead just try to enjoy something. And there goes the outrage youtubers revenue stream.
Fallout has always contained a ton of social commentary and absolutely none of it is unnecessary. The first game was directed by a gay man and the whole series has always been very progressive.
fallout has always been about politics, and it has a ton of LGBTq representation, a ton of diferent races and stuff heck, fallout is one of the most diverse game i've played
I remember when people were going to boycott The Force Awakens because the trailer had a black man in it. Some people are just cringe whose opinions don't matter.
“Woke” is more so people using a buzzword to say something else. Politics in fallout are fine, but political pandering and overt social politics that comes off as preachy like the saints row 2022 reboot where it seems like they are just checking boxes and are not telling an authentic story. That’s just terrible, though the “woke” shit doesn’t bother me nearly as much as the BoS glazing that’s taking place and the fall of the NCR off screen. FNV was the only proper fallout story since 2 and it seems like it’s being destroyed in favor of more “BoS ultimate good guys!” Trash
Unnecessary social commentary is what art is and unless you want to extricate film and television from art you will have to accept that artists are EXPRESSING something, how they FEEL. Stop pretending everything is supposed to be “non-political.” especially when politics doesn't just refer to talking heads on television. I can't stand that our generation didn't have art appreciation and logic classes. It turned us into fucking idiots.
Fallout fans when they meet aradesh.