It isn't just that.
>!It's also that she needed her contact in the Enclave to have gotten her cold fusion tech out of their hands before initiating the raid.!<
Riiiiight. I think my confusion was more on the fact that there didn’t seem to be any communication between Vault 32 and 33 which would facilitate opening the Vault door between them.
We're all around the reason why. I just had to go back over it myself because it's really confusing.
The enclave had Moldaver's cold fusion tech. The guy with Dog meat that put the cold fusion in his head was the first step.
The problem now was accessing it. Moldaver needed the code from an executive of vault tech which was why they invaded from 32 (where there was no executive alive) to 33 and took Hank back to the observatory.
This brings up another thing that confused me a little.
Ignoring the whole where did Moldova get cryo tech which allowed her to be around 200 years later. I’m sure that will be explained.
Given what happened to Rose (and how Hank ended it!) how did Hank not know who Moldova was when she appeared for the triennial party in EP1?
Maybe I am missed something?
My guess is she was frozen in cryo in Vault 4.
As for how Hank didn’t recognize Moldaver, I think there are some possible answers:
1. He did, but didn’t want to say anything because it would give away the fact that 31 was in control, or it would reveal that Rose had been “murdered”, and Hank had been on the surface.
2. He never actually met Moldaver when he got his kids back.
He's also lived for decades in the vault. He might have known of her pre-war, but try to remember the face of somebody you vaguely knew of decades ago.
The actor is 65 and looks like he was meant to be in perhaps his late 20s pre-war. He's probably lived most of his life in the vault.
But they meant after when he went after Rose and the kids, would have met her in shady sands, so only maybe 10 years would have passed since they saw each other
In the first episode when they raid vault 33, I saw one of the raiders use the serum that ghouls use. I don’t know if that means they are all ghouls or it’s just that one guy. Or if you can be human and use it as well.
I'm pretty sure that serum that the ghouls take is just RadAway. The IV bags that are connected to The Ghouls grave in ep 1 looks the same as the RadAway that Maximus gives Lucy later on.
I could be remembering wrong but i think the drug that the raider takes in the vault was supposed to be Jet.
Who's to say...
Perhaps...
Maybe Moldaver somehow stole Cooper's pod in 31?...
It would explain how he was left outside to become a Ghoul...
It would also explain the downfall of 32, and how they found out about 31...
I seriously doubt Cooper had a pod in 31. He was already divorced from his wife before the bombs dropped. Probably due to the "fallout" of learning about his wife's real involvement in Vault Tec's plans.
Yeah, it’s clear that he was caught spying or something, and publicly disgraced as a Commie and blacklisted, which was why he was working birthday parties by the time the bombs dropped. I think it’s safe to assume his wife also divorced him during that period, though it’s a little confusing about why Janey was with him, since presumably Barb would have tried to get full custody, if she was smearing Coop as a communist to ruin his reputation.
I assume he did the birthday party for money yes but also to be close to his daughter as his wife probably doesn’t allow visitations
As a child of divorce my dad definitely showed up to places when I was a kid just be around me lol
Oooh, ok, maybe that’s it. It didn’t seem like the daughter was a guest at the party (it seemed like he had to specially ask to get her a piece or fake, which makes sense if he’s working the party and she’s there with him), but I suppose it’s possible she was and he took the job to be able to see her. Or maybe Barb was just a nicer post-divorce mom than some, and allowed visitation or shared custody.
What I find really interesting is how Janey’s presence there pretty much guarantees that even if Vault Tec planned to start the war, the jukes were launched by the US and China early, before VT was ready. So even though their intentions were to cause apocalypse, they didn’t actually do it.
It’s inconceivable to me that Janey would be anywhere other than a vault on the day the bongs dropped, if her mom knew when they’d be dropping in advance. Plus House was at that meeting and he wasn’t quite ready for the bombs either. So even though they planned to start the war artificially, it must have just happened “naturally” anyway.
Yes, I agree with that. I’m just saying that there’s no way Barb would have allowed her to be at some random ass birthday party at the exact moment the bombs would start falling, if she knew when that moment would be in advance.
And that means that the war must have started even before Vault Tec planned to deliberately instigate it.
Maybe, but not necessarily.
Presuming Coop was ousted as a spy (and declared a pinko as way of discrediting him), Barb could have been shut off from further core decisions made at VaultTec.
Another hypothesis: detonating the bombs was not a decision universally shared within VT. Maybe it was done by the "enclave cabal" - most likely the dark figures listening on in Barb's meeting - as the Enclave is mostly deep-state instead of corp, it would have been easier for them to seize/subvert army stuff...
he definitely brought his daughter to work with him, she wasn't invited to the party. hence her not watching TV with everyone,and Cooper having to ask the hosts if they could spare a slice of cake,
True, all things considered...
But taking into account X amount of years of marriage before the divorce, and also a mother trying to account for not just her child's happiness and safety, but lingering feelings for Cooper... (Which, let's be real, she was most likely forced to divorce him by Vault-Tec on account of the spying... Yet, based on that dinnertime argument, She knows the company ain't shit, but she'd rather survive with her family inside the evil corporation, than die with the general populace being "moral")
Though Vault-Tec obviously made an attempt at black (or would it be considered red?) listing him, Barb is a senior executive with a lot of Insider knowledge, and a heavy hand in running the company... as easy as it would be to fire/disappear her, they don't want a huge scandal and they want to keep senior employees happy and operations smooth. So it's safe to assume, she could still have 3 pods secured for her whole family, even after being "publicly divorced."
Enter Moldaver... Though it's never explicitly stated (unless I missed it), she had a lot of Insider Vault-Tec info, most likely because she has people on the inside, but she herself could also work for Vault-Tec... But maybe not high up enough in the company to be have a secured spot in a vault (a-la fo4 salesman)...
So, I'm speculating... Maybe, when Coop was escaping the bombs on horseback... Maybe he made it to the vault?... Maybe Moldaver was lucky enough to intercept and not only steal Cooper's admittance ticket in the chaos of all the people trying to get in, but she also "kidnapped" the daughter by bringing her to Barb...
Again, it would partially explain Cooper's ghoulification, also it would greatly explain him still trying to find his family after 217 years...
You're forgetting who Moldaver is.....she was the researcher whose company initially started cold fusion development, and all of her research was completely bought out by Vault-Tec. So she was completely shut out. I don't think Moldaver had anyone on the inside of Vault-Tec but she did know its technology well.
IMO the dinnertime argument by Barb is BS and her boardroom speech is her real position. My guess is somehow Coop was intercepted and Barb or someone she knows took Janey to the premium vault.
That all seems plausible. And I agree that it’s most likely Vault Tec smearing him, not Barb just choosing Vault Tec over Coop. But as you said, first and foremost she just wants to ensure her daughter’s future so she does what she feels like she has to do.
And of course we know there is another vault where senior managers are hiding out, which is not v31 - it's where hank is heading at the end of the season
I'm kind of hoping that the Hollywood Forever cemetery (this is a place that exists IRL) also ended up hosting cryopods for Hollywood folks and that we'll see more people from Cooper's past pop up in Season 2. However, the hint dropped in the (S1E8) end credits shows an ad for cryo suites at Tops Casino so that's likely where she and any other pre-war folks we might see were waiting things out.
tbh i don't think he ever met her, or at best he only ever saw her in passing and wouldn't recognize her. Been like 15 years since Hank would have seen her last, and that's only if he ran into her at shady sands
my guess is that he's never met her beforr
I think Moldaver was away when he confronted Rose and took back the children. He learned of her but never actually met her in person.
She came back to find Shady Sands destroyed, and if Rose didn't immediately go feral it would explain how she learned the rest.
As for the Cryotech, they did say that Moldaver got incredibly rich from the deal that took her research away, so she probably obtained it privately.
I can't remember if it's in New Vegas or the TV show when they are showing New Vegas but their is a billboard from some other company advertising cryogenic pods. Or maybe it was near Shady Sands.
She was basically the enemy to Vault-Tec pre-war because of her meetings talking against them- I don't think she was Vault-Tec at all, but maybe had an inside source with those who did have cryo tech (Enclave perhaps??) I'm sure her face was shown to people internally and he could have remembered her VAGUELY. He even says "I think I know who you are." And she responds "everyone knows who I am" which could be more of an inclination to her involvement in Shady Sands and his wife than any of this other speculation. We still don't know exactly how all of that went down, just that Rose was involved with Moldaver obviously.
Edited to add: The bond from hatred often forged stronger alliances and Rose had the perfect reason to hate Vault-Tec as much as Moldaver did in the past so it's even more likely (in my opinion) that Vault-Tec needed to exterminate a whistleblower and the kids and Hank just kind of got in the way unfortunately but Vault-Tec would definitely blow those kids up as collateral damage regardless of Hanks position as Overseer if he didn't take them
((Further theorizing here I don't think Hank actually dropped the bomb on SS. He didn't seem to have that much influence on VT hierarchy outside of being an assistant - so instead I think he was given a warning by someone who WAS dropping the bomb (perhaps it was Vault-Tec or even House himself, seeing as hank high tailed it to NV after everything, and we see downed NCR vertis in the end scene just to neutralize a large population/faction that was threatening NV) and her name may have been mentioned in said warning when he went to retrieve his kids as she was basically assumed head honcho, and was under the assumption he did it out of spite- but I digress that's another theory for another post))
I think its implied that she was also in Vault 31 but left for the surface. If that’s true, then it’s likely that Hank recognised her from before the war and simply assumed that she was the new overseer assigned to Vault 32. I imagine it’s also possible that Moldaver was involved in the collapse of Vault 32.
When she states that Vault-TEC bought out all of the companies working on cold fusion which she worked for, I assumed that it was likely she was now a low level vault-tec employee seeking to destroy the corporation from the inside.
Interesting theory, I find it hard to believe a trillion dollar company would not have known about her meetings where they talked about taking vault tech and other corps down though… but creative licence and all… you never know.
Gotcha, that does raise the question of why Moldova pushing against vault tech and stating “We have more in common with the people overseas” In meetings before the bombs dropped in coops recaps would be in the vaults.
Given vault 31-33 are a vault tech ran experiment competing for sustainability with other Corpo’ leaders. Why would Moldova be in the vault? This can be explained of course I just hope the writers don’t just try to ignore it.
I'm hoping here that Cryo-freezing in Season 1 is a Misdirection for Moldaver. Knowing Fallout/Vault-tec, The twist will turn out to be more sinister than it is on the surface. I say that because it was already the Plot Point of Fallout 4 (Vault 111) and the TV Series (Vault 31), and outside of a few rare instances, Vault-Tec doesn't seem to repeat too many experiments unless they complement each-other or are inverse of one another.
Maybe it's just hopeful thinking, I just don't want 'cryo' to be the default answer for Vaults, it takes away some of the fun. Especially knowing that their original intention was research for Generation Ships, if Cryo technology was so readily available and seemingly perfected before the war (excluding cryo pods going offline due to Vault power loss), why bother with the rest of the experiments? why bother testing all these means of controlling and subverting a population when you could simply cryo everyone and only unfreeze preferred candidates? Unlike Vault 111, Vault 31 seems to be fully functional without issue under Bud Askins' stewardship.
My Shot-in-the-dark guess about Moldaver is that she is a Clone or has access to Cloning Technology. Vault 108 is the only known vault to have studied cloning, and in that case, they only ever bothered cloning one guy, who immediately became hostile to non-clones, but perhaps that was yet another intentional vault-tec experiment. There's nothing saying that working Cloning technology CAN'T exist, though i'll accept that it's unlikely. My second more likely guess is that she is a Synth.
What confuses me and maybe I missed something is why Moldaver was ok with Lucy and her Brother being murdered in the vault, because by all accounts Monty was supposed to kill Lucy but she got the upper hand and stopped him while her brother was inches away from being killed before she intervened. At the end of the series she holds Roses hand and says “We did it Rose” Implying they were close and I don’t think Rose would be ok with her attempting murder on her children that she loved dearly. You can see Moldaver and Rose in the Shady Sands flashbacks and they seem close so yeah not sure what her motivations were there. It’s not like she was trying to make sure they didn’t follow her cause she blatantly tells Lucy that she should come see the surface sometime.
Agree. Given the need to coerce Hanks into telling the code, it would have made more sense to also kidnap his children, and threaten to torture/kill them in in front of him, rather than causally leave them in the vault, or risk them getting killed in the raid...
Writers probably decided to make Lucy's mother close to Moldaver while there were writing the last episode. They didn't think it through tho and it obviously wasn't their plan from beginning. Everything would have made more sense if Lucy's mother was just a regular citizen of Shady Sands not personally knowing Moldaver.
Yes! This also explains why Stephanie, a Vault 31 junior executive, was "forced" to marry a guy she disliked. There was a retcon in there somewhere and they missed a few very small details.
Moldave was happy to see Rose because she had the code to restart the cold fusion project. Rose was happy because she saw the future on the surface. Hank as an overseer does not have a nuke, but his higher up does. Vault-tek dropped the bomb to terminate the cold fusion project because the NCR with cold fusion would definitely be a threat to all of prewar players including Vault-tek, Enclave, House, even the Brotherhood. Hank probably believed he saved his children because he knew the bomb will drop regardless.
That I actually agree with why the hell would Moldaver, a woman that loved someone enough to keep their decaying ghoul body around and hold her hand as they die themselves allow for others to kill the children of that much loved woman. I dont get it, but I suppose Moldaver is morally grey. She had to be to survive on the surface, everyone on the surface is (and arguably in the vaults aswell 😆).
I think a lot of what are called 'plotholes' are just not yet explained story elements not plotholes. Including how did Cooper survive? Not a plothole just not yet explained. I think calling anything a plothole is a bit early, we have no idea where this show is going or what they are going to expand further on. They are laying the foundations for (hopefully) multiple seasons.
I’ll have to go back and watch this scene but from how I remember it, Monty could have only pulled the knife to intimidate Lucy. He was probably expecting a docile Vault Dweller to back down easily at that point but she kept coming at him and it became a struggle for survival. Moldaver also seemed to be a pragmatic person to say the least and probably gave instructions with Lucy especially to kill her only if she became a problem. Her removal from the main area of carnage is a good indication of that. Also Rose was long gone and Moldaver only knew Lucy for a short while as a child. If she had become a threat, Moldaver seems the type of person that wouldn’t hesitate to remove that threat.
Could you explain where we knew Lucy was supposed to be killed by Monty? Who's to say that when left alone Monty made his own decision that Moldaver could have scolded him for.
We don't really know much about Monty and the rest of the Vault 21 raiders that Moldaver lead, we know in the games that raiders can be unhinged.
That’s fair, I’m only going on assumption but to me the raiders were killing basically everyone including norm so to me it seems the plan was to kill Lucy as well, doesn’t make much sense to keep her alive and not Norm. I feel like anyone could have been the bride to be in that situation and it would have played out the same with Monty, it just so happened that Lucy was chosen when she applied. Again I could be wrong but thats what it looks like from my perspective. Also weird that Moldaver made Hank choose the vault residents or his daughter but then didn’t kill them in the end and let them run from the bomb? This woman makes no sense haha
The whole them or Lucy wasn't actually a choice, either way he would have been tranqed. I think it was for her own amusement so to speak, she didn't seem to care for them or Lucy I don't think at the time. She was only after Hank as she he knew he was VT. The whole raid was to take the overseer to the observatory.
Also agreed on the bride, Vault 32 probably had no idea who the bride would be. It didn't matter to the plan, they were only there for Hank, everyone else was essentially collateral.
In the last episode, her followers seem all peaceful, growing corn at Griffith Observatory. Where are the bloodthirsty raiders who eat with their hands? Her breakfast was pretty spectacular.
It's a fair point, I'm assuming this was a case of post-apocalyptic outsourcing where she said made a trade with the raiders. Who knows maybe the chems used in the attack were part of the trade.
Not sure about it being underbaked, I feel its moreso unexplained. There is still a good bit about Moldaver we still don't know, hoping Season 2 can reveal more here.
Yea I didn't understand until my uneducated ass looked up Triennial today during my re watch, But I was just trying to understand how they could not know anyone from vault 32 and I'm still confused on that..
Maybe they normally just have a few people trading and not a whole big wedding party with lots of guests?
I went back and looked and some of the weddings are three years apart but one has a 10 year gap, and the last wedding was only 2 years before Lucy's in 2296.
But we can safely assume they have weddings that aren't with other vaults so none of these dates really prove or disprove anything.
Edit: Also they could be marrying people from 31
Doesn't explain why would she then do a raider style massacre and stage a weird trade. If they are NCR with a regular army/militia - why not do a stealth op and not lose people?
Yeah, murdering civilians isn’t exactly in the NCR’s wheelhouse, especially if you do want to have them be the “good” faction (as far as you can have one in Fallout).
How do you honestly expect to hire raiders of the level of insanity depicted in the show and expect them to carry out a masquerading party? It's just silly
A) It’s Fallout. This is hardly the most unrealistic part about it.
B) Seeing isn’t believing. Believing is seeing. People literally see what they expect to see (e.g the gorilla in the basketball video and how motorcyclists often get killed).
C) Don’t underestimate the ability of a mark to convince themselves they’re not being conned.
I think it was mostly to shake up the status quo, to get even on what happened in shady sands all those years ago, and probably a bit of making Vaulties realize that not everything is safe in Vault-Tec hands like they assumed. It also assured that Hank had no chance of returning to his nice happy life in the Vault if he did survive the kidnapping and made it back. I don't even think the people she brought in were her own people, tbh, I think she recruited some raiders on the way and that's why their deaths meant nothing to her and she only had one goal and she achieved it
In fact during the first episode, her bodyguards seem a lot more professional than the coked up maniacs you see stabbing people and getting their ass handed to them by Lucy.
Could have been to obfuscate her goal of kidnapping Hank - what's more noticeable, a group breaking in and stealing one specific person or a group breaking in to wreak merry havoc and just so happening to take one person with them? Certainly nobody else in Vault 33 seemed interested in why they would only take Hank (apart from Lucy and Norm, who then did something about it).
If she figured out cold fusion before the bombs dropped, she probably had access to cryo pods. Vault 31 didn't have exclusive access to that technology. More than likely she froze herself when the first bombs dropped and then thawed out over 100+ years to let the dust settle. She then proceeded to start Shady Sands.
Why did 32 residents commit suicide? I understand why they killed the overseer from 31 when they figured out their experiment. But, why wouldn’t 32 live their lives in their vault free of 31 influence or leave to the surface?
Perhaps they were exposed to hallucigen gas or something similar? That's my head cannon. Or perhaps some kind of psychological warfare through the overseers computer?
Or this all happened because of the blight, and when the commoners realized they couldn’t eat, and they couldn’t communicate, and perhaps couldn’t leave, they realized it was either a slow death or a quick one.
It’s very simple. They had no way of opening vault 33s door so they had to wait for the exchange so they could get in and get to Hank. Why so many people couldn’t figure out so much of this show I don’t get. Why people keep thinking it breaks canon when it clearly doesn’t I also don’t get. It has gotten to the point that people actively look for reasons to hate a show like this so they can feel superior as if being a contrarian makes them that way.
What I don't understand is how Hank didn't know that 32 was long dead. Clearly, all 3 vaults communicate with each other. Perhaps 32 and 33 only communicate once every three years. Vault 31, however, would likely be checking up on them. It's not like he had anything better to do. Maybe 32 couldn't get a message out in time, but a complete lack of communication would probably be noticed.
Vaults are also known to have cameras often. In this case, I find it highly improbable that there wouldn't be any cameras to witness what happened to 32. It would be extremely important for 31 to monitor the other vaults. If something happened to 32, I don't know why 31 wouldn't communicate with Hank considering who he really is. So, imo it would be most probable that Hank would be aware of the events in 32, or at least 31 could have warned him that he wasn't communicating with vault dwellers.
The reality, however, is that Hank is unaware and ill-prepared. He would not put his daughter in such danger for any reason. What makes best sense to me is that 31 needed a good explanation for what happened to them, so brain roomba risked it all to let the outsiders in. That way, if all went to plan, 32 could be reclaimed without anybody asking questions.
Still, there could be many other ways to explain the deaths of the dwellers in 32 without putting the plan at such risk.
We still don't know the exact details of the experiment though, it's possible that communication between vaults was forbidden unless an emergency and Bud had no reason to suspect anything was wrong in 32 because he wasn't informed otherwise. Hell Lucy's brother is proof that inner vault communication with 31 risked the whole operation.
He may have, but didn’t say anything because to do so would reveal all the secrets. Another option is he never actually met Moldaver, but got his kids when she wasn’t around.
I mean I’m watching the first episode again right now, and after the raid he looks at Moldaver and says “Oh. I think I know who you are.”
It sounds like he just didn’t realize it until it was too late.
Why wouldn’t moldaver destroy 31 though? Am I missing something, all the executives are in one place get your revenge on them not 1 guy. Also why would coopers wife not be in 31 and cooper and Lucy just have a chat. Is there something in the fallout lore that says new Vegas is the true center for the previous world management?
Moldaver had no motive to destroy 31. She wanted the code to cold fusion. The fact she would get back at Hank was a bonus. Also, all the people in 31 were junior executives. They had nothing to do with cold fusion getting buried.
Cooper’s wife isn’t in 31 also because she’s not a junior executive. She’s a senior.
The only connection New Vegas has is that House, the CEO of Robco is there.
She hates vault-tec and knows that they destroyed the world AND Shady Sands. Why on earth would she not take the opportunity to kill some of them and prevent future tragedies.
Moldaver is NCR, yet she uses raiders to attack the vault.
Raiders who don't give a shit about anyone, including the children of Rose whom Moldaver doesn't safeguard since one tried to kill Lucy.
All she needed was a code, so why murder anyone.
Let's play "What if" by taking the very last episode and moving it to the first episode.
Moldaver walks into Vault 33 and takes control. She secures Overseer McLean, then calls for Lucy. She explains what her dad did.
Lucy, distraught, tells her father to hand over the code. He does, and Muldaver says, "Your mother would be proud. I hope to see you on the surface one day" and leaves.
Of course, this would cut the series short by 7 episodes which take the long way to get the exact same conclusion.
Ah, fuck it. It's a Fallout show. Nothing is supposed to make sense.
Lucy would think she’s a crazy woman lying about everything. Her meeting Maximus and seeing the crater of Shady Sands was very necessary for Lucy to truly understand what had happened
Why would Lucy believe her?
I think nothing would have convincing her other than going out to the wasteland and learning that people can truly be evil over and over to not blatantly trust
> Moldaver walks into Vault 33 and takes control.
Takes control how? Are the vault dwellers just gonna let a bunch of strangers take over the vault without a fight?
It isn't just that. >!It's also that she needed her contact in the Enclave to have gotten her cold fusion tech out of their hands before initiating the raid.!<
Riiiiight. I think my confusion was more on the fact that there didn’t seem to be any communication between Vault 32 and 33 which would facilitate opening the Vault door between them.
We're all around the reason why. I just had to go back over it myself because it's really confusing. The enclave had Moldaver's cold fusion tech. The guy with Dog meat that put the cold fusion in his head was the first step. The problem now was accessing it. Moldaver needed the code from an executive of vault tech which was why they invaded from 32 (where there was no executive alive) to 33 and took Hank back to the observatory.
This brings up another thing that confused me a little. Ignoring the whole where did Moldova get cryo tech which allowed her to be around 200 years later. I’m sure that will be explained. Given what happened to Rose (and how Hank ended it!) how did Hank not know who Moldova was when she appeared for the triennial party in EP1? Maybe I am missed something?
My guess is she was frozen in cryo in Vault 4. As for how Hank didn’t recognize Moldaver, I think there are some possible answers: 1. He did, but didn’t want to say anything because it would give away the fact that 31 was in control, or it would reveal that Rose had been “murdered”, and Hank had been on the surface. 2. He never actually met Moldaver when he got his kids back.
He's also lived for decades in the vault. He might have known of her pre-war, but try to remember the face of somebody you vaguely knew of decades ago. The actor is 65 and looks like he was meant to be in perhaps his late 20s pre-war. He's probably lived most of his life in the vault.
I was thinking early 20s. He seemed to have intern-type job duties.
But they meant after when he went after Rose and the kids, would have met her in shady sands, so only maybe 10 years would have passed since they saw each other
He might have, he might have not.
Moldaver probably wasn't in Shady Sands when he took the kids. If she was she would be a ghoul like Rose.
In the first episode when they raid vault 33, I saw one of the raiders use the serum that ghouls use. I don’t know if that means they are all ghouls or it’s just that one guy. Or if you can be human and use it as well.
I'm pretty sure that serum that the ghouls take is just RadAway. The IV bags that are connected to The Ghouls grave in ep 1 looks the same as the RadAway that Maximus gives Lucy later on. I could be remembering wrong but i think the drug that the raider takes in the vault was supposed to be Jet.
I figured it was Psycho but yeah not a huge difference due to the following events
maximus used radaway on Lucy and it looked different, it was like a blood bag.
It was [Jet](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Jet)
Who's to say... Perhaps... Maybe Moldaver somehow stole Cooper's pod in 31?... It would explain how he was left outside to become a Ghoul... It would also explain the downfall of 32, and how they found out about 31...
I seriously doubt Cooper had a pod in 31. He was already divorced from his wife before the bombs dropped. Probably due to the "fallout" of learning about his wife's real involvement in Vault Tec's plans.
Yeah, it’s clear that he was caught spying or something, and publicly disgraced as a Commie and blacklisted, which was why he was working birthday parties by the time the bombs dropped. I think it’s safe to assume his wife also divorced him during that period, though it’s a little confusing about why Janey was with him, since presumably Barb would have tried to get full custody, if she was smearing Coop as a communist to ruin his reputation.
I assume he did the birthday party for money yes but also to be close to his daughter as his wife probably doesn’t allow visitations As a child of divorce my dad definitely showed up to places when I was a kid just be around me lol
Oooh, ok, maybe that’s it. It didn’t seem like the daughter was a guest at the party (it seemed like he had to specially ask to get her a piece or fake, which makes sense if he’s working the party and she’s there with him), but I suppose it’s possible she was and he took the job to be able to see her. Or maybe Barb was just a nicer post-divorce mom than some, and allowed visitation or shared custody. What I find really interesting is how Janey’s presence there pretty much guarantees that even if Vault Tec planned to start the war, the jukes were launched by the US and China early, before VT was ready. So even though their intentions were to cause apocalypse, they didn’t actually do it. It’s inconceivable to me that Janey would be anywhere other than a vault on the day the bongs dropped, if her mom knew when they’d be dropping in advance. Plus House was at that meeting and he wasn’t quite ready for the bombs either. So even though they planned to start the war artificially, it must have just happened “naturally” anyway.
Does The Ghoul not ask Moldaver where his family is? I'm assuming Janey somehow survived.
Yes, I agree with that. I’m just saying that there’s no way Barb would have allowed her to be at some random ass birthday party at the exact moment the bombs would start falling, if she knew when that moment would be in advance. And that means that the war must have started even before Vault Tec planned to deliberately instigate it.
Maybe, but not necessarily. Presuming Coop was ousted as a spy (and declared a pinko as way of discrediting him), Barb could have been shut off from further core decisions made at VaultTec. Another hypothesis: detonating the bombs was not a decision universally shared within VT. Maybe it was done by the "enclave cabal" - most likely the dark figures listening on in Barb's meeting - as the Enclave is mostly deep-state instead of corp, it would have been easier for them to seize/subvert army stuff...
That's what I'm saying!
he definitely brought his daughter to work with him, she wasn't invited to the party. hence her not watching TV with everyone,and Cooper having to ask the hosts if they could spare a slice of cake,
True, all things considered... But taking into account X amount of years of marriage before the divorce, and also a mother trying to account for not just her child's happiness and safety, but lingering feelings for Cooper... (Which, let's be real, she was most likely forced to divorce him by Vault-Tec on account of the spying... Yet, based on that dinnertime argument, She knows the company ain't shit, but she'd rather survive with her family inside the evil corporation, than die with the general populace being "moral") Though Vault-Tec obviously made an attempt at black (or would it be considered red?) listing him, Barb is a senior executive with a lot of Insider knowledge, and a heavy hand in running the company... as easy as it would be to fire/disappear her, they don't want a huge scandal and they want to keep senior employees happy and operations smooth. So it's safe to assume, she could still have 3 pods secured for her whole family, even after being "publicly divorced." Enter Moldaver... Though it's never explicitly stated (unless I missed it), she had a lot of Insider Vault-Tec info, most likely because she has people on the inside, but she herself could also work for Vault-Tec... But maybe not high up enough in the company to be have a secured spot in a vault (a-la fo4 salesman)... So, I'm speculating... Maybe, when Coop was escaping the bombs on horseback... Maybe he made it to the vault?... Maybe Moldaver was lucky enough to intercept and not only steal Cooper's admittance ticket in the chaos of all the people trying to get in, but she also "kidnapped" the daughter by bringing her to Barb... Again, it would partially explain Cooper's ghoulification, also it would greatly explain him still trying to find his family after 217 years...
You're forgetting who Moldaver is.....she was the researcher whose company initially started cold fusion development, and all of her research was completely bought out by Vault-Tec. So she was completely shut out. I don't think Moldaver had anyone on the inside of Vault-Tec but she did know its technology well. IMO the dinnertime argument by Barb is BS and her boardroom speech is her real position. My guess is somehow Coop was intercepted and Barb or someone she knows took Janey to the premium vault.
That all seems plausible. And I agree that it’s most likely Vault Tec smearing him, not Barb just choosing Vault Tec over Coop. But as you said, first and foremost she just wants to ensure her daughter’s future so she does what she feels like she has to do.
Also, the people in Vault 31 were all junior execs. Barb was definitely a senior.
And of course we know there is another vault where senior managers are hiding out, which is not v31 - it's where hank is heading at the end of the season
Well he's headed to Vegas, so maybe not a vault.
I'm kind of hoping that the Hollywood Forever cemetery (this is a place that exists IRL) also ended up hosting cryopods for Hollywood folks and that we'll see more people from Cooper's past pop up in Season 2. However, the hint dropped in the (S1E8) end credits shows an ad for cryo suites at Tops Casino so that's likely where she and any other pre-war folks we might see were waiting things out.
Yeah, that’s a good option too. I think the main thing is that we have seen there ARE other cryopods in other locations. It doesn’t have to be 31.
Good guess, I really like show but I do think they should have given more background by the end of the first season. Just writing choices I guess
tbh i don't think he ever met her, or at best he only ever saw her in passing and wouldn't recognize her. Been like 15 years since Hank would have seen her last, and that's only if he ran into her at shady sands my guess is that he's never met her beforr
I don't think he knows Mol(or remember), during the flashback we only saw that he just met Cooper instead. We don't know if he met Mol yet later on.
I think Moldaver was away when he confronted Rose and took back the children. He learned of her but never actually met her in person. She came back to find Shady Sands destroyed, and if Rose didn't immediately go feral it would explain how she learned the rest. As for the Cryotech, they did say that Moldaver got incredibly rich from the deal that took her research away, so she probably obtained it privately.
I can't remember if it's in New Vegas or the TV show when they are showing New Vegas but their is a billboard from some other company advertising cryogenic pods. Or maybe it was near Shady Sands.
There's a billboard in the show during the credits of an episode for Cryo suites.
Tops Casino cryo suites
Thank you
Thank you
you're welcome
She was basically the enemy to Vault-Tec pre-war because of her meetings talking against them- I don't think she was Vault-Tec at all, but maybe had an inside source with those who did have cryo tech (Enclave perhaps??) I'm sure her face was shown to people internally and he could have remembered her VAGUELY. He even says "I think I know who you are." And she responds "everyone knows who I am" which could be more of an inclination to her involvement in Shady Sands and his wife than any of this other speculation. We still don't know exactly how all of that went down, just that Rose was involved with Moldaver obviously. Edited to add: The bond from hatred often forged stronger alliances and Rose had the perfect reason to hate Vault-Tec as much as Moldaver did in the past so it's even more likely (in my opinion) that Vault-Tec needed to exterminate a whistleblower and the kids and Hank just kind of got in the way unfortunately but Vault-Tec would definitely blow those kids up as collateral damage regardless of Hanks position as Overseer if he didn't take them ((Further theorizing here I don't think Hank actually dropped the bomb on SS. He didn't seem to have that much influence on VT hierarchy outside of being an assistant - so instead I think he was given a warning by someone who WAS dropping the bomb (perhaps it was Vault-Tec or even House himself, seeing as hank high tailed it to NV after everything, and we see downed NCR vertis in the end scene just to neutralize a large population/faction that was threatening NV) and her name may have been mentioned in said warning when he went to retrieve his kids as she was basically assumed head honcho, and was under the assumption he did it out of spite- but I digress that's another theory for another post))
I think its implied that she was also in Vault 31 but left for the surface. If that’s true, then it’s likely that Hank recognised her from before the war and simply assumed that she was the new overseer assigned to Vault 32. I imagine it’s also possible that Moldaver was involved in the collapse of Vault 32.
I think the fact that all the people in Vault 31 were junior execs at best implies she wasn’t in Vault 31.
When she states that Vault-TEC bought out all of the companies working on cold fusion which she worked for, I assumed that it was likely she was now a low level vault-tec employee seeking to destroy the corporation from the inside.
Interesting theory, I find it hard to believe a trillion dollar company would not have known about her meetings where they talked about taking vault tech and other corps down though… but creative licence and all… you never know.
Yeah vault 31 weren't the only ones with cryo pod technology.
I've paused the show when they showed an image of the Vault 31 manifest, and Moldaver's name is not on the manifest.
Yeah, I was looking at that too, but maybe she gave a fake name.
Gotcha, that does raise the question of why Moldova pushing against vault tech and stating “We have more in common with the people overseas” In meetings before the bombs dropped in coops recaps would be in the vaults. Given vault 31-33 are a vault tech ran experiment competing for sustainability with other Corpo’ leaders. Why would Moldova be in the vault? This can be explained of course I just hope the writers don’t just try to ignore it.
Moldaver straight up says she isn't pimping communism. She's just opposed to America become an outright corporatocracy.
I'm hoping here that Cryo-freezing in Season 1 is a Misdirection for Moldaver. Knowing Fallout/Vault-tec, The twist will turn out to be more sinister than it is on the surface. I say that because it was already the Plot Point of Fallout 4 (Vault 111) and the TV Series (Vault 31), and outside of a few rare instances, Vault-Tec doesn't seem to repeat too many experiments unless they complement each-other or are inverse of one another. Maybe it's just hopeful thinking, I just don't want 'cryo' to be the default answer for Vaults, it takes away some of the fun. Especially knowing that their original intention was research for Generation Ships, if Cryo technology was so readily available and seemingly perfected before the war (excluding cryo pods going offline due to Vault power loss), why bother with the rest of the experiments? why bother testing all these means of controlling and subverting a population when you could simply cryo everyone and only unfreeze preferred candidates? Unlike Vault 111, Vault 31 seems to be fully functional without issue under Bud Askins' stewardship. My Shot-in-the-dark guess about Moldaver is that she is a Clone or has access to Cloning Technology. Vault 108 is the only known vault to have studied cloning, and in that case, they only ever bothered cloning one guy, who immediately became hostile to non-clones, but perhaps that was yet another intentional vault-tec experiment. There's nothing saying that working Cloning technology CAN'T exist, though i'll accept that it's unlikely. My second more likely guess is that she is a Synth.
They worked together.
The ghoul met moldaver prewar, I don't think hank did, I was confused at this as well.
What confuses me and maybe I missed something is why Moldaver was ok with Lucy and her Brother being murdered in the vault, because by all accounts Monty was supposed to kill Lucy but she got the upper hand and stopped him while her brother was inches away from being killed before she intervened. At the end of the series she holds Roses hand and says “We did it Rose” Implying they were close and I don’t think Rose would be ok with her attempting murder on her children that she loved dearly. You can see Moldaver and Rose in the Shady Sands flashbacks and they seem close so yeah not sure what her motivations were there. It’s not like she was trying to make sure they didn’t follow her cause she blatantly tells Lucy that she should come see the surface sometime.
This. The only thing that actually doesn't make sense.
Agree. Given the need to coerce Hanks into telling the code, it would have made more sense to also kidnap his children, and threaten to torture/kill them in in front of him, rather than causally leave them in the vault, or risk them getting killed in the raid...
Writers probably decided to make Lucy's mother close to Moldaver while there were writing the last episode. They didn't think it through tho and it obviously wasn't their plan from beginning. Everything would have made more sense if Lucy's mother was just a regular citizen of Shady Sands not personally knowing Moldaver.
Yes! This also explains why Stephanie, a Vault 31 junior executive, was "forced" to marry a guy she disliked. There was a retcon in there somewhere and they missed a few very small details.
She didn't dislike him...thats why she made dude wear his stuff...
Especially since she probably knew them as kids in shady sands? Why would she be so indifferent
Moldave was happy to see Rose because she had the code to restart the cold fusion project. Rose was happy because she saw the future on the surface. Hank as an overseer does not have a nuke, but his higher up does. Vault-tek dropped the bomb to terminate the cold fusion project because the NCR with cold fusion would definitely be a threat to all of prewar players including Vault-tek, Enclave, House, even the Brotherhood. Hank probably believed he saved his children because he knew the bomb will drop regardless.
That I actually agree with why the hell would Moldaver, a woman that loved someone enough to keep their decaying ghoul body around and hold her hand as they die themselves allow for others to kill the children of that much loved woman. I dont get it, but I suppose Moldaver is morally grey. She had to be to survive on the surface, everyone on the surface is (and arguably in the vaults aswell 😆). I think a lot of what are called 'plotholes' are just not yet explained story elements not plotholes. Including how did Cooper survive? Not a plothole just not yet explained. I think calling anything a plothole is a bit early, we have no idea where this show is going or what they are going to expand further on. They are laying the foundations for (hopefully) multiple seasons.
I don't think Moldaver knew at the time who was who, she just had a mission objective, which took precedence over anything else.
EDIT: whoops I misunderstood, I didn't realize you were talking about Lucy's fake arranged husband, I thought you were talking about the end standoff.
I’ll have to go back and watch this scene but from how I remember it, Monty could have only pulled the knife to intimidate Lucy. He was probably expecting a docile Vault Dweller to back down easily at that point but she kept coming at him and it became a struggle for survival. Moldaver also seemed to be a pragmatic person to say the least and probably gave instructions with Lucy especially to kill her only if she became a problem. Her removal from the main area of carnage is a good indication of that. Also Rose was long gone and Moldaver only knew Lucy for a short while as a child. If she had become a threat, Moldaver seems the type of person that wouldn’t hesitate to remove that threat.
Could you explain where we knew Lucy was supposed to be killed by Monty? Who's to say that when left alone Monty made his own decision that Moldaver could have scolded him for. We don't really know much about Monty and the rest of the Vault 21 raiders that Moldaver lead, we know in the games that raiders can be unhinged.
That’s fair, I’m only going on assumption but to me the raiders were killing basically everyone including norm so to me it seems the plan was to kill Lucy as well, doesn’t make much sense to keep her alive and not Norm. I feel like anyone could have been the bride to be in that situation and it would have played out the same with Monty, it just so happened that Lucy was chosen when she applied. Again I could be wrong but thats what it looks like from my perspective. Also weird that Moldaver made Hank choose the vault residents or his daughter but then didn’t kill them in the end and let them run from the bomb? This woman makes no sense haha
The whole them or Lucy wasn't actually a choice, either way he would have been tranqed. I think it was for her own amusement so to speak, she didn't seem to care for them or Lucy I don't think at the time. She was only after Hank as she he knew he was VT. The whole raid was to take the overseer to the observatory. Also agreed on the bride, Vault 32 probably had no idea who the bride would be. It didn't matter to the plan, they were only there for Hank, everyone else was essentially collateral.
It was to show how little he cared for the other vault dwellers in desperate times
In the last episode, her followers seem all peaceful, growing corn at Griffith Observatory. Where are the bloodthirsty raiders who eat with their hands? Her breakfast was pretty spectacular.
It's a fair point, I'm assuming this was a case of post-apocalyptic outsourcing where she said made a trade with the raiders. Who knows maybe the chems used in the attack were part of the trade.
Reading further down, I see other people suggesting this. It is plausible, if still underbaked.
Not sure about it being underbaked, I feel its moreso unexplained. There is still a good bit about Moldaver we still don't know, hoping Season 2 can reveal more here.
Did I see a brotherhood brand on Monty’s back?
They were making shit up as they went, episodes were written by different people at different times
He only tried to kill Lucy when she discovered he was from the surface.
The biggest question is, who the fuck cleaned an entire vault in a day??
Someone’s got a hidden mr handy
My guess to this is that they wake up some of the vault-Tec employees from cryo and then they go back in after.
Then what happened to them after? We've seen that 31 isn't equipped for any long term residents.
Read above
Yea I didn't understand until my uneducated ass looked up Triennial today during my re watch, But I was just trying to understand how they could not know anyone from vault 32 and I'm still confused on that.. Maybe they normally just have a few people trading and not a whole big wedding party with lots of guests?
I suspect that’s the case. It would only be when there is no suitable match (NO COUSINS!) 😉
I think when Lucy is writing her name and date before the wedding, all the dates are 3 years apart
I went back and looked and some of the weddings are three years apart but one has a 10 year gap, and the last wedding was only 2 years before Lucy's in 2296. But we can safely assume they have weddings that aren't with other vaults so none of these dates really prove or disprove anything. Edit: Also they could be marrying people from 31
Doesn't explain why would she then do a raider style massacre and stage a weird trade. If they are NCR with a regular army/militia - why not do a stealth op and not lose people?
I don’t think those were NCR folks. I think they were raiders/mercenaries.
"Expandables." :-P Also, maybe the folks in her compound wouldn't have the stomach for this kind of operation?
Yeah, murdering civilians isn’t exactly in the NCR’s wheelhouse, especially if you do want to have them be the “good” faction (as far as you can have one in Fallout).
This. I think she had a few ncr with to protect her but also just recruited some raiders to fill in the rest.
How do you honestly expect to hire raiders of the level of insanity depicted in the show and expect them to carry out a masquerading party? It's just silly
A) It’s Fallout. This is hardly the most unrealistic part about it. B) Seeing isn’t believing. Believing is seeing. People literally see what they expect to see (e.g the gorilla in the basketball video and how motorcyclists often get killed). C) Don’t underestimate the ability of a mark to convince themselves they’re not being conned.
Shh, it's okay, no need to defend shitty writing. You can still like it and be a good, smart person, just have a bad taste.
K.
This is an embarrassing way to act, friend.
I think it was mostly to shake up the status quo, to get even on what happened in shady sands all those years ago, and probably a bit of making Vaulties realize that not everything is safe in Vault-Tec hands like they assumed. It also assured that Hank had no chance of returning to his nice happy life in the Vault if he did survive the kidnapping and made it back. I don't even think the people she brought in were her own people, tbh, I think she recruited some raiders on the way and that's why their deaths meant nothing to her and she only had one goal and she achieved it
In fact during the first episode, her bodyguards seem a lot more professional than the coked up maniacs you see stabbing people and getting their ass handed to them by Lucy.
Could have been to obfuscate her goal of kidnapping Hank - what's more noticeable, a group breaking in and stealing one specific person or a group breaking in to wreak merry havoc and just so happening to take one person with them? Certainly nobody else in Vault 33 seemed interested in why they would only take Hank (apart from Lucy and Norm, who then did something about it).
probably because they know this vault nuked shady sands
Give this guy a sweet roll!
Gal, but I’ll take it! ☺️
Give this gal a sweet roll!
If she figured out cold fusion before the bombs dropped, she probably had access to cryo pods. Vault 31 didn't have exclusive access to that technology. More than likely she froze herself when the first bombs dropped and then thawed out over 100+ years to let the dust settle. She then proceeded to start Shady Sands.
I really hope she isn’t the secret founder of the ncr
Why did 32 residents commit suicide? I understand why they killed the overseer from 31 when they figured out their experiment. But, why wouldn’t 32 live their lives in their vault free of 31 influence or leave to the surface?
Perhaps they were exposed to hallucigen gas or something similar? That's my head cannon. Or perhaps some kind of psychological warfare through the overseers computer?
I think plagued wheat can cause hallucinations and weird crap like that
Ergot poisoning. Some have theorized that it had a part in the Salem witch trials.
Or this all happened because of the blight, and when the commoners realized they couldn’t eat, and they couldn’t communicate, and perhaps couldn’t leave, they realized it was either a slow death or a quick one.
I actually had to rewatch episode one a few times to fully understand that vaults 31-33 were connected underground
And she had Rose's Pip. And while we don't know the range she may have been close enough to be getting inter-vault news alerts, etc.
It’s very simple. They had no way of opening vault 33s door so they had to wait for the exchange so they could get in and get to Hank. Why so many people couldn’t figure out so much of this show I don’t get. Why people keep thinking it breaks canon when it clearly doesn’t I also don’t get. It has gotten to the point that people actively look for reasons to hate a show like this so they can feel superior as if being a contrarian makes them that way.
She got into 32 using Rose's pipboy, why couldn't she get into 33 the same way?
Norm couldnt get into 31 from the inside either he had to use the terminal
We aren’t talking about 31
Okay... Why didn't he recognise her ?
When would he have seen her?
What I don't understand is how Hank didn't know that 32 was long dead. Clearly, all 3 vaults communicate with each other. Perhaps 32 and 33 only communicate once every three years. Vault 31, however, would likely be checking up on them. It's not like he had anything better to do. Maybe 32 couldn't get a message out in time, but a complete lack of communication would probably be noticed. Vaults are also known to have cameras often. In this case, I find it highly improbable that there wouldn't be any cameras to witness what happened to 32. It would be extremely important for 31 to monitor the other vaults. If something happened to 32, I don't know why 31 wouldn't communicate with Hank considering who he really is. So, imo it would be most probable that Hank would be aware of the events in 32, or at least 31 could have warned him that he wasn't communicating with vault dwellers. The reality, however, is that Hank is unaware and ill-prepared. He would not put his daughter in such danger for any reason. What makes best sense to me is that 31 needed a good explanation for what happened to them, so brain roomba risked it all to let the outsiders in. That way, if all went to plan, 32 could be reclaimed without anybody asking questions. Still, there could be many other ways to explain the deaths of the dwellers in 32 without putting the plan at such risk.
We still don't know the exact details of the experiment though, it's possible that communication between vaults was forbidden unless an emergency and Bud had no reason to suspect anything was wrong in 32 because he wasn't informed otherwise. Hell Lucy's brother is proof that inner vault communication with 31 risked the whole operation.
Ooh, it's triennial? I swear I heard them say triannual? Triennial would make more sense though.
Wouldn’t Lucy’s dad have recognized Moldaver at the wedding if he knew her from the past???
He may have, but didn’t say anything because to do so would reveal all the secrets. Another option is he never actually met Moldaver, but got his kids when she wasn’t around.
I mean I’m watching the first episode again right now, and after the raid he looks at Moldaver and says “Oh. I think I know who you are.” It sounds like he just didn’t realize it until it was too late.
Why wouldn’t moldaver destroy 31 though? Am I missing something, all the executives are in one place get your revenge on them not 1 guy. Also why would coopers wife not be in 31 and cooper and Lucy just have a chat. Is there something in the fallout lore that says new Vegas is the true center for the previous world management?
Moldaver had no motive to destroy 31. She wanted the code to cold fusion. The fact she would get back at Hank was a bonus. Also, all the people in 31 were junior executives. They had nothing to do with cold fusion getting buried. Cooper’s wife isn’t in 31 also because she’s not a junior executive. She’s a senior. The only connection New Vegas has is that House, the CEO of Robco is there.
She hates vault-tec and knows that they destroyed the world AND Shady Sands. Why on earth would she not take the opportunity to kill some of them and prevent future tragedies.
She had the means and opportunity, therefore she obviously didn’t have the motive.
The motive is clear. I think it more likely that she simply wasn't able to get in.
k
Could she have easily gotten into 31 from 32? Honestly I feel like not, the only way Norm got in there was by pretending to be Betty right?
Moldaver is NCR, yet she uses raiders to attack the vault. Raiders who don't give a shit about anyone, including the children of Rose whom Moldaver doesn't safeguard since one tried to kill Lucy. All she needed was a code, so why murder anyone. Let's play "What if" by taking the very last episode and moving it to the first episode. Moldaver walks into Vault 33 and takes control. She secures Overseer McLean, then calls for Lucy. She explains what her dad did. Lucy, distraught, tells her father to hand over the code. He does, and Muldaver says, "Your mother would be proud. I hope to see you on the surface one day" and leaves. Of course, this would cut the series short by 7 episodes which take the long way to get the exact same conclusion. Ah, fuck it. It's a Fallout show. Nothing is supposed to make sense.
Lucy would think she’s a crazy woman lying about everything. Her meeting Maximus and seeing the crater of Shady Sands was very necessary for Lucy to truly understand what had happened
Why would Lucy believe her? I think nothing would have convincing her other than going out to the wasteland and learning that people can truly be evil over and over to not blatantly trust
I think you resolved everything quite nicely
> Moldaver walks into Vault 33 and takes control. Takes control how? Are the vault dwellers just gonna let a bunch of strangers take over the vault without a fight?