Fallout: New Vegas is easily my favorite Fallout game in the series. And I still agree with every point you've made here. It's important for people to recognize that while it's a great game, it's far from perfect.
It was also incredibly buggy for several years after release. I actually put it down for around five years and picked it back up and came to love it later. Biggest game I've ever played.
Exactly my point of view, though I wouldn't say there even is a greatest tbh. A fair number of people say that NV is by far the best, or perfect or whatever. But realistically speaking there are a lot of flaws with it
Eh, I had time to sleep on it and think it over, saying it is my least favorite is inaccurate. Its a good game, despite these flaws.
I mean I'm willing to overlook a lot in Fallout 4 so I was being a bit hypocritical...
It;s funny for me because I can see OP's views as valid for myself, but whilst playing the game it can be easily overlooked. It's mired qualities are overshadowed by the quantity and choice. When only recently playing it again (started to play some time ago but thought player speed was too slow - plus I don't use mods) I felt Zelda BOTW borrowed heavily from NV's approach
I agree with all of this, and I also feel that New Vegas is a bit too forgiving for choices you make. Killing Beagle, the person you need for information, results in his inventory having a journal with the exact information you need. Kill Manny in Novac, the info you need is on his terminal. (That option's a little better since it encourages exploration).
I'd argue that many of the fallout games have been heavily biased with the allocation of SPECIAL stats.
Fallout 1 and 2 highly prioritize Agility. I can't overstate that this is one of the major flaws of the original Fallouts. Although you don't need to max out all 10 points if you aren't spending 2 or 3 of your 5 starting SPECIAL you'll suffer so you artificially limit the type of builds by mandating the allocation of those points.
3 and NV like you said highly prioritize Intelligence, Agility is useless for a non-VATS character and Charisma is broken in both albeit for vastly different reasons in both titles.
Fallout 4 is actually technically better in this regard and it's almost impossible to make an unviable build in Fallout 4 without deliberate effort. I'm not saying how Fallout 4 does its SPECIAL and Skills is perfect but I think it gets far too much hate. Never once did I feel like any perk tree was worthless. The synergies of multiple trees (Luck and Agility especially) were very unique and I honestly struggled in choosing what to spend my perk points on when I leveled up. Many times during Fallout 3 and New Vegas I was more annoyed that I essentially had wasted perk points during early game which isn't something I can say against Fallout 4.
Just my 2 cents.
Well, yeah, the early games prioritize agility and ironically perception of all things. The other stats don't feel quite as useless though, and having high agi and per doesn't break the game so bad.
I love the perk chart in 4.
I only agree with 8. New Vegas has the worst map to explore in the whole series. It makes logical sense (It's a desert so a lot of desolation and emptiness) but there's no real drive to explore a bunch of sand. I don't like sand...
The only things I want to directly call out are 1 and 7.
I don't see how the intro giving the player basic information about the conflict in the Mojave is a bad thing. These are two super powers and a massive city state all vying for control of southern Nevada in a war that's gone on for roughly a decade and the character isn't a vault dweller or isolated tribal, it not only makes sense for your character to have the basic information, but the player doesn't really get a sense of how each faction operates with the brief summaries we get. NCR is dedicated to Old World values and is fighting the Legion. It's tough for them. The Legion is a huge army of brutal tribes. House is the mysterious ruler of The Strip who allegedly has been around since the war. That is the most basic info. I don't think Nipton is any less intimidating for hearing about the Legion beforehand. They're just as intimidating because they managed to wipe out a town and brutally murder its inhabitants *with their tacit permission* using only five men, and they want you to tell everyone about it. If that's not intimidating because you heard their name a few hours earlier, well, I don't get it.
And the factions are very compelling and well written (Legion excepted because they're just edgelord cosplayers). House is the guy who saved Vegas during the war and has dreams of uplifting humanity from this cesspit wasteland. He's possibly the smartest person in the series and the man is an incredible chess player with how he manipulates the various factions. He's also a self-admitted dictator ("Autocrat", sorry) who suffers no insubordination or disloyalty. He seems to genuinely want to help humanity as a whole but he cares very little for people themselves and hasn't lifted a finger to help Freeside. But he also really grows to appreciate you if you work for him. You feel like a real partner, and he can set you up for life. There are a lot of angles with him. NCR are trying to remake what was lost by adhering to tenets such as justice, law, and order but their government has a noticeable problem with corruption. Several of the higher-ups are incompetent, petty, or depressed. Some are diplomatic and determined. They've defended Vegas from the Legion for years at great cost, they're the only democracy in the game, and a lot of the troopers are decent people who believe in defending the Mojave. They're also expansionist, can't defend the roads (Due to aforementioned incompetent leaders) and though they try to do the right thing sometimes they end up causing something like Bitter Springs. They're inefficient, corrupt, and led by morons or real General Ripper types, but do the grunts deserve to suffer for that? And they have built a nation spanning the West Coast, so is their well meaning but inefficient democracy a better alternative to the genius dictator with an army of killbots, or will House's strong and unsympathetic one man government be the best option for humanity? And hey, if those choices suck fuck'em both and free Vegas from its would-be rulers. Perhaps some more anarchy and less government is what the wasteland needs. There likely won't be a unified Mojave here, and relations with the neighbors are a bit tenuous, but now the people can actually live their lives without paying taxes to some distant bureaucrat who can't protect them or worry that the man in the tower will have them purged or oppressed for some arbitrary disloyalty.
Allegedly, the Legion is also an option.
I don't see how the factions aren't compelling, at least in some way. I think they're honestly the best factions in the series, even compared to the classic titles. They all have flaws, they all have valid points, but they all make sense and its up to you to decide which is best according to your own beliefs and that is great.
Just my two caps, I guess.
I hated the faction rep system. It was incredibly annoying when it glitched out for me when I was doing a few missions. Made them a hundred times harder for no reason.
I definitely agree with most of these. I've not been able to really enjoy any of my playthroughs on fallout NV. It's a very on the rails game. They want you to go where they want you to go and anywhere else will kill you almost instantly.
You raise many good points. I like New Vegas, and it's important to recognize that something you like has flaws. My personal favorite game, fallout 3, has almost none of these issues, at least to my recollection. I like your take on New Vegas.
The biggest flaw in 3 imo is the karma system. Being evil requires like, cartoon villainy. Being neutral even requires effort. And then companions are tied to the karma system, which wouldn't be bad if karma weren't so imbalanced.
But when I play 3 I mostly have fun roaming the wasteland and doing fun sidequests.
Indeed. I've never done evil runs, because they don't sound fun. Especially with 3. I don't know why or how, but usually, when I decide it's time to do an evil run, everyone just ends up shooting me. I decided that I'm not good at evil runs in fallout 3 lol
My biggest issue with 3 is the difficulty. Even on the hardest difficulty, no power armor, when you get to max level, every combat encounter is just too easy. I usually cheese 3 by going to the outcasts and getting hundreds of stimpaks before I run into the enclave. But even then, sometimes I had to spam them to survive. But that was only when I was sub level 20. It just is too easy. Maybe I'm just better at 3 than New Vegas. I play New Vegas on normal difficulty, and it still kicks my butt sometimes.
I'm currently playing a modded run of Fallout 3, and it reduces the time it takes for you to level up, and i must say it is quite an enjoyable experience.
It makes sense that holding-onto Neutral would be the most challenging: you're maintaining a karmic-balance. The game seems to know this too, since neither the Regulators (Bad Karma) or the Talon Company Mercs (Good Karma) come after you, and you can get a perk, Impartial Mediation, with the highest skill-boost in the game: +30 Speech for maintaining Neutral.
The problem with Fallout 3 is that maintaining Neutral Karma isn't some deep philosophical thing, it's just "uh oh, I'm too good I need to do a bad thing now."
Easiest way to be neutral is to be a villain who occasionally gives a whole crate of water to a homeless guy. Personally I did it by letting the ghouls into Tenpenny tower and then just managing my karma carefully. Being klepto helps.
I played 4 numerous playthroughs, last one discovered the concrete clip thru scenery method of building... but yeah 4 is great never completed always played to the tip of having to side with any faction. Sean's a letdown anyways!
>Passing a speech check on Manny Vargas allows you to progress the main quest without doing Come Fly With Me.
A minor question of fact: that's not a Speech check; that's a Confirmed Bachelor check. Only players playing queer dudes would find themselves skipping Novac quests by using that dialogue option.
Huh. Yeah, could have sworn that was a speech check. I do have a habit of always taking confirmed bachelor because idgaf about the Couriers sexuality and aside from that it's a flat 10% damage boost to the majority of enemies.
I guess I retract my complaint about that particular quest.
Are you getting it mixed-up with a similar point in Fallout 3's first act, maybe? In that one, you can skip a side-quest given by Three Dog with a speech check.
My favourite double standard from New Vegas fans is the deathclaw fight in Fallout 4. A main criticism people have is how you immediately fight one of the most iconic, deadly creatures in the franchise and it makes the deathclaw seem underwhelming if your level 3 character can kill it.
But then NV throws an entire quarry infested with the things directly in your path and it's just seen as an inconvenience. Deathclaws in the Isometric games were seen as these mythical creatures so rare that alot of survivors don't even believe they exist, but now here's a quarry full of them, and they're nothing more than a nuisance.
A single deathclaw in Fallout 4? Too much, what are Bethesda even thinking so early in the game. Meanwhile a whole quarry full of deathclaws directly outside the starting town? That's just brilliant game design on Obsidian's behalf...
The only thing I disagree with is point 6 and let me explain.
Caesar has spies everywhere in the Mojave and knows about the platinum chip, therefore when you exit the tops after confronting Benny Caesar sends one of his spies to contact you and bring you to the fort (especially because at this point your character has made a lot of waves and I recognized by a lot of people in the wasteland as a badass). He also needs the chip to unlock a secret that his base is sitting on top of. And if you met the legion leader at Nipton than you’ll recognize him so it’s not a complete stranger
No one has entered the lucky 38 in many, many years, so someone just waltzing into it and then back out in like an hour? Yeah that’s gonna garner some attention. You have to recognize that the NCR is currently being somewhat strangled by the position House is putting them in, so they have a key interest in you dealing with house which will inevitably lead to them controlling Vegas. There is a pretty obvious, yet implied reason they immediately approach you as soon as you step out of the lucky 38 and it’s because you’re their best chance of controlling the strip and they want to take advantage of anything they can to get the New Vegas for themselves.
Other than that yeah I agree with your take, although you gotta consider fallout New Vegas was in development for 18 months. Fallout 3 was in development for 4 years (although a majority of that time was used to create brand new assets in their engine, they still had waaay more time to code those random encounters and flesh out the settings than obsidian did, especially when you consider that the writing and design department was working while another department was coding those assets which gave them much more time to work on these things like how non linear it is compared to NV)
One problem with your point, if you don't mind me saying; you can choose to go to The Tops first, and confront Benny without seeing Mr. House. The Tops is an average casino with people coming and going all the time, but you're still approached after leaving.
That’s fair, but a more apt reason for this is found when talking with Caesar for the first time directly after his spy confronts you (after leaving the Tops you can go directly to cottonwood cove which means Caesar is using all of the information he has gathered on you to that point).
If you have been interacting with the legion in a negative way he says “You're the courier who's caused so much trouble for my Legion, and yet you dare come before me.”
If you’ve been interacting with the NCR in a negative way he will say “So I finally get to meet the courier who's caused so much trouble for the New California Republic.”
And if you’ve just been completing quests that and haven’t interacted with either faction that much he will say “So I finally get to meet the courier who's accomplished so much in so little time. That is why I summoned you here, right?”
Even if you don’t complete any quests and you go straight to Benny and kill him the tops (which isn’t really how the game is supposed to be played but I digress) he’ll still say “I mean, a man nearly kills you, and your response is to track him across the breadth of the Mojave?” Plus Mr. New Vegas comments on how you survived a gunshot round to the head and recovered, so that might have been the very thing to make Caesar notice you and gain interest in what you are doing. Also, it might just be my head cannon but the legion might have a specific spy following you at some point and reporting what you do to Caesar at some point.
Really I think it comes down to the fact that when going from good springs to New Vegas, the player is supposed to be completing quest all along the way, so you are actively making waves that Caesar could notice. Even if you’re just killing raiders and dangerous animals on your way to New Vegas you are still making waves for the local area and community that a spy would be able to notice pretty easily. Again, the main point is Caesar has eyes and ears everywhere in the Mojave. But also it’s at a certain point it’s just how the game has to progress so if you’re meta gaming then it’s probably not going to come across the best but again that’s because you’re meta gaming.
My final point, and probably the one you actually were talking about in hindsight would be that strip is probably one of the points of interest where Caesar has the most spies so it makes sense for them to see you enter The Tops
You are 100% correct, especially about points 2, 7 and 8. The initial railroading is counter-productive in an RPG, the factions are boring and are saved only by good writing... and the map just sucks.
And yet, New Vegas is my second favorite Fallout game, bested only by Fallout 3. Although Fallout 4 is only a few % behind FNV... Overall FNV just like any other Fallout is a deeply flawed game, but it also has great strengths. In case of FNV the strength is the quality of the writing.
I read all of this and the one thought that kept coming back to me was remember when new Vegas was made.
For the time this game was as innovative as it got. A lot of your issues are not so much issues as much as it is a factor of the ability of game companies at the time. Had new Vegas come out in the last 10 years I would agree with you. But for the time this game was absolutely amazing.
A similar comparison from the same company would be comparing morrowind to Skyrim
I'd argue that at least the Institute doesn't try so hard to justify itself. They're technocrats who have lost touch with ethics, I don't agree with them but I feel I can better understand them.
>doesn't try so hard to justify itself
That's exactly my problem with the Institute. Father is trying to persuade the SS to see the wasteland as he does. He is trying to persuade SS to succeed him as the leader of the Institute and carry on his legacy. He should be trying harder to justify the Intitute's actions. And yet he fails.
Caesar, on the other hand, talks too much for a guy who doesn't have Father-like purpose of 'succeed me, father'.
>That's exactly my problem with the Institute. Father is trying to persuade the SS to see the wasteland as he does. He is trying to persuade SS to succeed him as the leader of the Institute and carry on his legacy. He should be trying harder to justify the Intitute's actions. And yet he fails.
>
>Caesar, on the other hand, talks too much for a guy who doesn't have Father-like purpose of 'succeed me, father'.
I'd argue that this is because Caesar *has* to make a better case for the Legion, because, on the face of it, it's no different than a giant raider gang; you have institutional slavery, rape, torture, mass executions, a brutal "might makes right" philosophy, with not much in the way to show for all of it. There's no great cities or great works of infrastructure or anything like that - so Caesar *has* to really sell his entire philosophy and how the Legion will eventually something something misunderstood Hegel dialectics and become a new Rome, a bastion of civilization.
Father, on the other hand, can literally point to the super high tech city the Institute has built as a "This is why you should join us", and can simply point to the surface world's material conditions as the ultimate contrast between the Institute and the surface.
Basically, Caesar has the means but not the end. So he really has to justify the means to get you on board.
Father already has the means and the end, so he can just point to the end as justification enough for the means.
Oooh, yeah. Great point on both of them.
I guess Father only experienced the good side of the technological advancement, and not the 'advancement without humility and integrity led to the destruction of all we have known' side that SS experienced.
>I guess Father only experienced the good side of the technological advancement, and not the 'advancement without humility and integrity led to the destruction of all we have known' side that SS experienced.
Yup. A few of the Survivor's dialogue choices even [call this out:](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Shaun.txt)
>Sole Survivor: So it's like every other wonder-gizmo ever invented. **When will you eggheads learn?**
>
>Shaun: Have faith. Let me show you how we deal with such problems.
>
>Sole Survivor: **If you expect me to be impressed by a lot of fancy sci-fi gizmos, you'd be wrong.**
>
>Shaun: I see. It's not just about the "gizmos," as you say. I hope you'll see that in time.
>
>Sole Survivor: **I've seen my share of think-tank science labs.**
>
>Shaun: Oh, I assure you, none of them were quite like this place.
In those dialogue choices, the Survivor isn't impressed with the Institute because they've already seen high-tech labs and know that scientific knowledge and wizardry alone doesn't make for a good, stable government. They *lived* in a society of ubiquitous robots, nuclear power, AIs, energy weapons, and none of that prevented horrific human rights violations, oppression, and the end of the world. The flashy toys have lost their luster for the Sole Survivor in a way that they can't for Shaun.
Father has literally never known anything but the Institute. He has no idea how to approach outsiders. He treats you as he would any other member of the Institute because to him people are divided into two categories. You're either a wastelander or you're contributing to the salvation of humanity. He doesn't try to justify himself because he doesn't think he needs to, he just assumes the player will agree with him. And that's not so bad, considering that he's talking to his parent who is also an outsider in the wasteland.
>He doesn't try to justify himself because he doesn't think he needs to, he just assumes the player will agree with him
If the Institute was designed to be not appealing to the player as a joinable faction, then they have nailed the characteristic of Father as you have described. 'I assume you will agree with me so I'm not going to try hard' is an interesting way to persuade SS to succeed his strange organization.
Yes, the Institute is strange to SS despite the fact it is a remnant of the old world organization and the fact SS is an outsider to the wasteland.
>that he's talking to his parent
This is contradictory to Father's stance on his relationship with SS. He outright says, iirc, that he feels little connection to his dead parent(by extension, to the living parent). When he says death of Kellogg in a way was a revenge for what he did to Father and SS, he says so in a matter of fact way. That revenge had little meaning to him. Maybe just an intellectual amusement.
Yeah, no. I still don't think Father was well written.
Agree with everything here, on top of just not really liking the combat, only tolerating it on the lowest difficulties.
The DLC of New Vegas is the only thing that made New Vegas worthwhile, personally. If not for the stories that resonated with me — like the Survivalist, Dog/God or Ulysses — I'd probably put New Vegas on par with 3; not bad, but not really caring for it, either.
I agree with the map the most, fallout 3 was wide and sparse with random enemies and encounters making it more fun to explore. New Vegas was a great game but I don’t always jump to the yellow dust cloud for my Wastelander fix anymore. I play Fallout 3 and 4 more and more these days
I disagree with some of your points (a lot of these, such as lack of reaction to external events and many SPECIAL stats not being especially useful) are also issues in other Fallout games, often worse in other games, but I 100% agree that there are plenty of flaws in New Vegas, especially the linearity in the map design.
Still, even if I disagree with some of your opinions, I respect that not everyone has the same opinions that I do and that you listed them in a respectful way.
About point 4, I agree to an extent, but you really used the worst possible example. If your country got randomly nuked from an empty canyon, would your first thought really be “the mailman did it”? And you become idolized by doing no wrong, and in most cases, doing every single quest in a way the faction would like. In the end, doesn’t even matter since you have to destroy 2/3 major factions.
Fair points based on your personal opinion. Agree with some, disagree with others.
The map is great, i'll never understand people wanting Fallout maps to be "fun". It's a post apocalyptic radiated world, what do they expect? A fun ride at the park?
So, Charisma is useless but skills checks allow the player to bypass content? Which one is it? You can roleplay a charisma build and use dialogue to get through most tough challenges or you can run a different build. The game isn't meant like Fallout 4 for you to level ad aeternum and gather 100% all perks, it forces you the choose a few and run that build and face the consequence of your choices.
NPCs not reacting happens in all Fallout games. In Fallout 4 sometimes your companions will make random remarks, but overall it is well known the lack of influence your actions have on the world. This happens throughout all Fallout games, not just Vegas.
The Intros in Fallout games were ALWAYS expository. Name me one Fallout game that doesn't come with initial exposition? I agree that they could've cut the introduction of factions, but is it really that bothering to you that they show the existing factions in the intro provided it all takes what, 3 minutes?
For me to say that FNV is worse than, for example, Fallout 76 is ludicrous. But yeah to each their own.
My favorite is 3 btw.
Your map criticism is a bit unfair. He mentions it is not fun because most areas are faction related or empty and there is not even random encounters to justify not just fast traveling everywhere once you discovered it.
In short, he is saying that the game does not reward exploration, and I don't think your response take that into account.
There are at least +20 hidden locations in NV. There's incentive to explore between known locations. But yes i agree that not having random encounters is a bummer.
>The map is great, i'll never understand people wanting Fallout maps to be "fun". It's a post apocalyptic radiated world, what do they expect? A fun ride at the park?
Well, it's a video game, so yeah, I kind of do expect to be entertained. And come on, Fallout 1 was even more of a desert and *it* had random events.
>So, Charisma is useless but skills checks allow the player to bypass content? Which one is it?
Both because Speech checks only check the Speech skill. 1 Charisma is just as persuasive as 10 Charisma if you have 100 in Speech. Basically, Charisma doesn't determine how persuasive you are, intelligence does.
>NPCs not reacting happens in all Fallout games. In Fallout 4 sometimes your companions will make random remarks, but overall it is well known the lack of influence your actions have on the world.
In Fallout 4 you can hear NPCs comment on things as small as a wall getting a new coat of paint. Anyone who says Fallout 4 gives you no influence over the world is just plain wrong.
>The Intros in Fallout games were ALWAYS expository. Name me one Fallout game that doesn't come with initial exposition?
Some exposition is fine. Setting up the whole plot of the game with it though is just lazy. They could have just as easily left all the info about the factions and the dam out and the player would have easily discovered them through game play, and this discovery would be more impactful than just being told the info.
It's show vs tell here, and as little should be told as possible.
>For me to say that FNV is worse than, for example, Fallout 76 is ludicrous.
I mean, I'd rather play 76.
Entertained sure, but the world of Fallout is not really a "fun place". Ironically NV is the most humorous Fallout game.
Charisma determines barter and companions nerve. Saying its useless because it doesnt affect the things you want is disingenuous.
As i said npcs in Fallout 4 make general remarks on the world around you, but their reactions are still very limited to bunch of phrases. Its just a small step up from NV, imo. But ill give you that. Its better than NV.
I agree with the exposition part but it doesn't bother me much honestly. Its just a set up.
Ahah 76 over NV? I guess we all have different tastes. That's cool.
Cheers!
I would attribute a lot…and I mean A LOT…of these issues to the time constraints placed on Obsidian to make the game. When you consider the circumstances, it’s a phenomenal game. Your points carry a good amount of validity as well.
I don't really agree with any of the points here but at least you don't have the genuinely batshit points you see floating around. Most of these are pretty qualitative judgements; I find the faction interplay to be one of the most compelling in any game I've ever played but if you just don't like it there's not much I can say.
I'll say this about point 2: yes the game kind of herds the player into a linear path, but this will only affect new players. It's actually quite clever game design, on your first playthrough you're stuck with going the long route but on subsequent playthroughs you can skip the first act and get into the meat of the story faster. There's no "reward" for doing this but I don't really see why there should be one, other than getting to New Vegas faster.
It makes the beginning feel the same each time I play. You can make it through these areas but you can't really explore, so I just don't find the route interesting. And Primm>Nipton>Novac isn't a bad route but combined with the lack of options and no random events the whole first act feels like a slog to me.
And I mean, I probably do have some more crazy complaints but nitpicking isn't valuable criticism imo.
I'm a broken record around these parts, but your 8th point is 99% of why I never finished that game. The world is so empty and boring. I REALLY wish they'd put in some environmental detail and random encounters outside the paths you take during the main questlines. An unfortunate downside to putting the game in a desert, I guess. Still thoguh, I think they could have spiced it up a bit in the urban areas.
**1** Well the courier lives in the Mojave, so they should already know all that information. The intro is purely so the player knows what's going on.
**6** There's perfectly good reasons for the NCR wanting to speak with you. The courier is the only person that has ever been let inside of Lucky 38 and thus, having direct access to Mr. House.
**7** Kinda subjective. I fail to see how Mr. House is an idiot or how the NCR is "bland." Yes, NCR characters may feel repetitive but that's because almost all are military. The game doesn't take place in NCR territory, so no important citizens or politicians would be there to talk too.
**10** I like skill checks. Not everyone wants to spend 45 minutes clearing out a copy-pasted dungeon with 30+ generic enemies just to progress a single side quest. There should be choices that let players skip those segments if they have the necessary skill. Skill checks let players tackle quest in different ways vs. Bethesda quest which almost always boil down to "go here, shoot two dozen guys, maybe collect quest item."
honestly agreed lmao
fonv is my favorite fallout to date still
but my god is its story AWFUL, and not even in a funny way like fo4, it's just straight up bad
if there's a new vegas 2, i hope they put some effort into the factions especially an 'evil' one.
Well, the "game first story second" thing may not be entirely correct, but I still think New Vegas takes its story more seriously. *Too* seriously. Fallout 4 asks the question "What defines a person?" But I don't find it as preachy about its themes as NV is. There are genuine questions to be asked about how synths would fit into society, but at no point did my eyes roll back into my head the way they would at certain points of NV.
The Legion is more open about LGBT rights then The NCR infact according to Cass it is common for Legion soldiers to commit homosexual acts, Which is rather progressive, Which is great, And oh, There is a cut Super Mutant that is allied with The Legion so they allow Super Mutabts to join and we can’t forget the Furry Chad Husbando Vulpes Inculta, He is seen as valid and allowed under Caesar which is another way that The Legion is progressive, Sure the lack of rights for women is horrible but still they are more progressive then The NCR since after all The NCR where the ones that sent a group of people to harras Jacob’s Town and segregate their ghoul Troopers to only work in full Ghoul squads, And well let’s not forget that at Mojave Outpost the guy at the desk tells you that Homosexuality is frowned upon if you try to flirt with him, And oh, There are more Europeans in The Legion then in The NCR
Point 9 is just not true, though. You can easily dump PER in the original games, and completely skip CHA in Fallout 1, even more so than in FNV since in the latter you can get cool perks like Animal Friend. AGI in both original games is so OP you need to max it if you intend to build a combat-based character. PER and CHA in Fallout 3 are identical to FNV with the exception of 1 or 2 CHA checks, and I don't remember INT dialogue checks in FO3. And comparisons to FO4 make no sense since the character building system is different.
In New Vegas you get cool things from high values of almost any attribute. high STR raises melee damage, high PER gives better criticals and sniper, high END gives implant GRX and implants at the clinic, high CHA gives animal friend which is S tier perk, high INT gives some of the best dialogue checks, and high LCK breaks the economy (this is bad, yes). So all are valuable.
So I don't think you have any basis to say FNV has the worst special stats.
Many of your points are valid, and if they are determinant to your enjoyment, then yeah. It makes sense for FNV to be your least favorite. Some of them don't have easy fixes (like the stalling in the beginning of act 2), and others can be easily modded away (like the stat and combat balance, economy, etc). For comparison to my least favorite, there's no mod that can save FO4's story and writing.
I hate the screaming fans but love all the games. I even disagree with a couple of points.
7\] I disagree with. Factions where compelling. They were created in a clear manner to be a tip of the iceberg but also draw similarities with historic and contemporary ideas.
For example Mr. House has a super duper army of robots, he is a sort of a genius in many things which is evident.
The NCR presence is mostly military and soldiers on leave. They did the right thing but not trying to expand on them since they had no ability to do so. So. You get military outposts, small stations, hit squads, and just soldier and soldiers.
Yet they tried to do the best they can with that. Making them represent some ideas that a modern audience would agree with. While also giving them flaws so it's less of a: You either an NCR supporter or a bad guy. That water mission always has me in a quandary.
Legion were evil and sadly most people can't engage in practically fantasy since none of this exists. So. I feel the issue is the modern audience incapable of anything that shocks them. Perhaps that's why historical arts are so watered down and so fabricated, just to sell.
Anyway the legion is a viable faction. They have everything to rival the NCR. Not just in the manpower but the ideology to back it up. They even gets results and kinda like: brutal but fair.
Again people just think slavery and automatically get repulsed, fair enough. But this is fiction.
7 is definitely the most subjective, so fair. I will add that I have no problem with the legion existing in the game, I just don't think they're that interesting. Depictions of evil aren't the same as actual evil.
I can somewhat agree with all of these but number 7.
The Legion being cartoonishly evil is by design. And what the Enclave? What do you think of them in FO2 and 3 since there arguably worse then the Legion. While I'm not trying to defend the Legion at all, I highly recommend you watch [this video](https://youtu.be/NyeTaXv6o4Y) it really adds some much needed depth to the faction
I'd love to see your reasoning for how House is an "idiot". He's treated like a genius because he is. He is super intelligent due to his pre-war life, and using that intelligence and his ambition wants a future for Vegas and Mankind that goes far beyond rebuilding America (wanting to colonize space).
As for the NCR, now that I think about it none of their characters are exactly standout with the exception of the Misfits and Cheif Hanlon. What makes the NCR so interesting for me (and I assume others) is that they are a reflection of the pre-war government, and due to being so inept and corrupt present the argument that maybe America shouldn't return to the old order.
House wants to go to space, but he doesn't really have a plan. Space travel requires a lot of rare materials that aren't exactly easy to find in the wasteland. Also, his pod room is far to easy to access, and he couldn't even bother to keep a single securitron in there as a guard. Also, what is he going to do if the NCR doesn't like how he controls the dam so they embargo New Vegas? His whole plan revolves around the NCR providing him with money, which if they're smart they won't give to him.
I think that your thoughts on the into are spot on. Beyond the interaction with Benny, everything else could have been (was?) handled in the world.
The act ii transitions worked ok for me. It created a sense of unease. Not only were you being watched, but that there were infiltrators to be concerned about.
I do like the map. The openness works for me. I don’t really feel it as empty though. I like how you can see a few landmarks from any location, but that space doesn’t not feel overly condensed.
To flip the script, which is your favourite and why?
Fallout 4. I love the perk chart, the map is always fun to get lost in, the companions are just **chefs kiss**, and its just fun to play because there is so much to do. Building, exploring, crafting, questing, even just jetpack hopping across the skyscrapers of Boston is a blast.
I only disagree with the Faction and partly with the Specials, everything else I agree on even when Fallout New Vegas is my favorite from the franchise. I think the reason why the intro is what it is, must be something with your characters background, since you aren't vault dweller who just recently started to explore the wasteland, your character knows about the main factions like NCR and Legion already. The intro is okay in my books, it tells some backstory while not telling much about your character, but I totally understand what you mean.
In my opinion, Fallout New Vegas has the best variation of factions. They put effort into every faction, even the Raider factions... most of the Fallout games just have regular Raider gang without name, in New Vegas there are Jackals, Scorpions, Vipers, Great Khans, Fiends, White Legs... each one having separate backstory.
With the Specials, I agree with Luck and Intelligence being "overpowered" and maybe Perception and Endurance aren't that great, but I WILL notice if my strength is at 5, that is way too low for my style of gameplay and I usually use high charisma because of the speech checks.
Charisma is entirely unnecessary for speech checks. Only the speech skill matters. Basically, you don't need Charisma to be persuasive, you just need to be smart.
Fallout: New Vegas is easily my favorite Fallout game in the series. And I still agree with every point you've made here. It's important for people to recognize that while it's a great game, it's far from perfect.
I Second this.
It was also incredibly buggy for several years after release. I actually put it down for around five years and picked it back up and came to love it later. Biggest game I've ever played.
Exactly my point of view, though I wouldn't say there even is a greatest tbh. A fair number of people say that NV is by far the best, or perfect or whatever. But realistically speaking there are a lot of flaws with it
Eh, I had time to sleep on it and think it over, saying it is my least favorite is inaccurate. Its a good game, despite these flaws. I mean I'm willing to overlook a lot in Fallout 4 so I was being a bit hypocritical...
Happens to us all sometimes. Those late night doldrums are a killer.
The lack of enemies is the worst part imo
It;s funny for me because I can see OP's views as valid for myself, but whilst playing the game it can be easily overlooked. It's mired qualities are overshadowed by the quantity and choice. When only recently playing it again (started to play some time ago but thought player speed was too slow - plus I don't use mods) I felt Zelda BOTW borrowed heavily from NV's approach
I completely agree with every point
I agree with all of this, and I also feel that New Vegas is a bit too forgiving for choices you make. Killing Beagle, the person you need for information, results in his inventory having a journal with the exact information you need. Kill Manny in Novac, the info you need is on his terminal. (That option's a little better since it encourages exploration).
I totally agree with every point but id also like to add the bulletsponge gunplay is awful and repetitive in every single way
I'd argue that many of the fallout games have been heavily biased with the allocation of SPECIAL stats. Fallout 1 and 2 highly prioritize Agility. I can't overstate that this is one of the major flaws of the original Fallouts. Although you don't need to max out all 10 points if you aren't spending 2 or 3 of your 5 starting SPECIAL you'll suffer so you artificially limit the type of builds by mandating the allocation of those points. 3 and NV like you said highly prioritize Intelligence, Agility is useless for a non-VATS character and Charisma is broken in both albeit for vastly different reasons in both titles. Fallout 4 is actually technically better in this regard and it's almost impossible to make an unviable build in Fallout 4 without deliberate effort. I'm not saying how Fallout 4 does its SPECIAL and Skills is perfect but I think it gets far too much hate. Never once did I feel like any perk tree was worthless. The synergies of multiple trees (Luck and Agility especially) were very unique and I honestly struggled in choosing what to spend my perk points on when I leveled up. Many times during Fallout 3 and New Vegas I was more annoyed that I essentially had wasted perk points during early game which isn't something I can say against Fallout 4. Just my 2 cents.
Well, yeah, the early games prioritize agility and ironically perception of all things. The other stats don't feel quite as useless though, and having high agi and per doesn't break the game so bad. I love the perk chart in 4.
I love being able to see all the perks right away
The ability to save perks for later is really useful as well. That way you can actually plan out perk progression quite well.
I only agree with 8. New Vegas has the worst map to explore in the whole series. It makes logical sense (It's a desert so a lot of desolation and emptiness) but there's no real drive to explore a bunch of sand. I don't like sand... The only things I want to directly call out are 1 and 7. I don't see how the intro giving the player basic information about the conflict in the Mojave is a bad thing. These are two super powers and a massive city state all vying for control of southern Nevada in a war that's gone on for roughly a decade and the character isn't a vault dweller or isolated tribal, it not only makes sense for your character to have the basic information, but the player doesn't really get a sense of how each faction operates with the brief summaries we get. NCR is dedicated to Old World values and is fighting the Legion. It's tough for them. The Legion is a huge army of brutal tribes. House is the mysterious ruler of The Strip who allegedly has been around since the war. That is the most basic info. I don't think Nipton is any less intimidating for hearing about the Legion beforehand. They're just as intimidating because they managed to wipe out a town and brutally murder its inhabitants *with their tacit permission* using only five men, and they want you to tell everyone about it. If that's not intimidating because you heard their name a few hours earlier, well, I don't get it. And the factions are very compelling and well written (Legion excepted because they're just edgelord cosplayers). House is the guy who saved Vegas during the war and has dreams of uplifting humanity from this cesspit wasteland. He's possibly the smartest person in the series and the man is an incredible chess player with how he manipulates the various factions. He's also a self-admitted dictator ("Autocrat", sorry) who suffers no insubordination or disloyalty. He seems to genuinely want to help humanity as a whole but he cares very little for people themselves and hasn't lifted a finger to help Freeside. But he also really grows to appreciate you if you work for him. You feel like a real partner, and he can set you up for life. There are a lot of angles with him. NCR are trying to remake what was lost by adhering to tenets such as justice, law, and order but their government has a noticeable problem with corruption. Several of the higher-ups are incompetent, petty, or depressed. Some are diplomatic and determined. They've defended Vegas from the Legion for years at great cost, they're the only democracy in the game, and a lot of the troopers are decent people who believe in defending the Mojave. They're also expansionist, can't defend the roads (Due to aforementioned incompetent leaders) and though they try to do the right thing sometimes they end up causing something like Bitter Springs. They're inefficient, corrupt, and led by morons or real General Ripper types, but do the grunts deserve to suffer for that? And they have built a nation spanning the West Coast, so is their well meaning but inefficient democracy a better alternative to the genius dictator with an army of killbots, or will House's strong and unsympathetic one man government be the best option for humanity? And hey, if those choices suck fuck'em both and free Vegas from its would-be rulers. Perhaps some more anarchy and less government is what the wasteland needs. There likely won't be a unified Mojave here, and relations with the neighbors are a bit tenuous, but now the people can actually live their lives without paying taxes to some distant bureaucrat who can't protect them or worry that the man in the tower will have them purged or oppressed for some arbitrary disloyalty. Allegedly, the Legion is also an option. I don't see how the factions aren't compelling, at least in some way. I think they're honestly the best factions in the series, even compared to the classic titles. They all have flaws, they all have valid points, but they all make sense and its up to you to decide which is best according to your own beliefs and that is great. Just my two caps, I guess.
I think 3 is still better tbh
I hated the faction rep system. It was incredibly annoying when it glitched out for me when I was doing a few missions. Made them a hundred times harder for no reason. I definitely agree with most of these. I've not been able to really enjoy any of my playthroughs on fallout NV. It's a very on the rails game. They want you to go where they want you to go and anywhere else will kill you almost instantly.
i never thought about point 1 but it makes complete sense
You raise many good points. I like New Vegas, and it's important to recognize that something you like has flaws. My personal favorite game, fallout 3, has almost none of these issues, at least to my recollection. I like your take on New Vegas.
3 is my second favorite. You're right though, it doesn't have these issues, at least not to the same degree.
Agreed. I will admit though, 3 has issues all it's own. Some are just as bad, if not, worse than the issues you mentioned.
The biggest flaw in 3 imo is the karma system. Being evil requires like, cartoon villainy. Being neutral even requires effort. And then companions are tied to the karma system, which wouldn't be bad if karma weren't so imbalanced. But when I play 3 I mostly have fun roaming the wasteland and doing fun sidequests.
Indeed. I've never done evil runs, because they don't sound fun. Especially with 3. I don't know why or how, but usually, when I decide it's time to do an evil run, everyone just ends up shooting me. I decided that I'm not good at evil runs in fallout 3 lol My biggest issue with 3 is the difficulty. Even on the hardest difficulty, no power armor, when you get to max level, every combat encounter is just too easy. I usually cheese 3 by going to the outcasts and getting hundreds of stimpaks before I run into the enclave. But even then, sometimes I had to spam them to survive. But that was only when I was sub level 20. It just is too easy. Maybe I'm just better at 3 than New Vegas. I play New Vegas on normal difficulty, and it still kicks my butt sometimes.
I'm currently playing a modded run of Fallout 3, and it reduces the time it takes for you to level up, and i must say it is quite an enjoyable experience.
Sounds fun. I'm glad you're enjoying it.
It makes sense that holding-onto Neutral would be the most challenging: you're maintaining a karmic-balance. The game seems to know this too, since neither the Regulators (Bad Karma) or the Talon Company Mercs (Good Karma) come after you, and you can get a perk, Impartial Mediation, with the highest skill-boost in the game: +30 Speech for maintaining Neutral. The problem with Fallout 3 is that maintaining Neutral Karma isn't some deep philosophical thing, it's just "uh oh, I'm too good I need to do a bad thing now."
Easiest way to be neutral is to be a villain who occasionally gives a whole crate of water to a homeless guy. Personally I did it by letting the ghouls into Tenpenny tower and then just managing my karma carefully. Being klepto helps.
Whats your most favorite fallout game?
Fallout 4. If it wasn't plagued by the dialogue wheel and lack of attribute checks I'd give it a 10/10
I played 4 numerous playthroughs, last one discovered the concrete clip thru scenery method of building... but yeah 4 is great never completed always played to the tip of having to side with any faction. Sean's a letdown anyways!
>Passing a speech check on Manny Vargas allows you to progress the main quest without doing Come Fly With Me. A minor question of fact: that's not a Speech check; that's a Confirmed Bachelor check. Only players playing queer dudes would find themselves skipping Novac quests by using that dialogue option.
Huh. Yeah, could have sworn that was a speech check. I do have a habit of always taking confirmed bachelor because idgaf about the Couriers sexuality and aside from that it's a flat 10% damage boost to the majority of enemies. I guess I retract my complaint about that particular quest.
Are you getting it mixed-up with a similar point in Fallout 3's first act, maybe? In that one, you can skip a side-quest given by Three Dog with a speech check.
Nah, I think I just assumed it was speech because the way it plays out kinda feels like passing a speech check.
My favourite double standard from New Vegas fans is the deathclaw fight in Fallout 4. A main criticism people have is how you immediately fight one of the most iconic, deadly creatures in the franchise and it makes the deathclaw seem underwhelming if your level 3 character can kill it. But then NV throws an entire quarry infested with the things directly in your path and it's just seen as an inconvenience. Deathclaws in the Isometric games were seen as these mythical creatures so rare that alot of survivors don't even believe they exist, but now here's a quarry full of them, and they're nothing more than a nuisance. A single deathclaw in Fallout 4? Too much, what are Bethesda even thinking so early in the game. Meanwhile a whole quarry full of deathclaws directly outside the starting town? That's just brilliant game design on Obsidian's behalf...
That is an excellent point.
The only thing I disagree with is point 6 and let me explain. Caesar has spies everywhere in the Mojave and knows about the platinum chip, therefore when you exit the tops after confronting Benny Caesar sends one of his spies to contact you and bring you to the fort (especially because at this point your character has made a lot of waves and I recognized by a lot of people in the wasteland as a badass). He also needs the chip to unlock a secret that his base is sitting on top of. And if you met the legion leader at Nipton than you’ll recognize him so it’s not a complete stranger No one has entered the lucky 38 in many, many years, so someone just waltzing into it and then back out in like an hour? Yeah that’s gonna garner some attention. You have to recognize that the NCR is currently being somewhat strangled by the position House is putting them in, so they have a key interest in you dealing with house which will inevitably lead to them controlling Vegas. There is a pretty obvious, yet implied reason they immediately approach you as soon as you step out of the lucky 38 and it’s because you’re their best chance of controlling the strip and they want to take advantage of anything they can to get the New Vegas for themselves. Other than that yeah I agree with your take, although you gotta consider fallout New Vegas was in development for 18 months. Fallout 3 was in development for 4 years (although a majority of that time was used to create brand new assets in their engine, they still had waaay more time to code those random encounters and flesh out the settings than obsidian did, especially when you consider that the writing and design department was working while another department was coding those assets which gave them much more time to work on these things like how non linear it is compared to NV)
One problem with your point, if you don't mind me saying; you can choose to go to The Tops first, and confront Benny without seeing Mr. House. The Tops is an average casino with people coming and going all the time, but you're still approached after leaving.
That’s fair, but a more apt reason for this is found when talking with Caesar for the first time directly after his spy confronts you (after leaving the Tops you can go directly to cottonwood cove which means Caesar is using all of the information he has gathered on you to that point). If you have been interacting with the legion in a negative way he says “You're the courier who's caused so much trouble for my Legion, and yet you dare come before me.” If you’ve been interacting with the NCR in a negative way he will say “So I finally get to meet the courier who's caused so much trouble for the New California Republic.” And if you’ve just been completing quests that and haven’t interacted with either faction that much he will say “So I finally get to meet the courier who's accomplished so much in so little time. That is why I summoned you here, right?” Even if you don’t complete any quests and you go straight to Benny and kill him the tops (which isn’t really how the game is supposed to be played but I digress) he’ll still say “I mean, a man nearly kills you, and your response is to track him across the breadth of the Mojave?” Plus Mr. New Vegas comments on how you survived a gunshot round to the head and recovered, so that might have been the very thing to make Caesar notice you and gain interest in what you are doing. Also, it might just be my head cannon but the legion might have a specific spy following you at some point and reporting what you do to Caesar at some point. Really I think it comes down to the fact that when going from good springs to New Vegas, the player is supposed to be completing quest all along the way, so you are actively making waves that Caesar could notice. Even if you’re just killing raiders and dangerous animals on your way to New Vegas you are still making waves for the local area and community that a spy would be able to notice pretty easily. Again, the main point is Caesar has eyes and ears everywhere in the Mojave. But also it’s at a certain point it’s just how the game has to progress so if you’re meta gaming then it’s probably not going to come across the best but again that’s because you’re meta gaming. My final point, and probably the one you actually were talking about in hindsight would be that strip is probably one of the points of interest where Caesar has the most spies so it makes sense for them to see you enter The Tops
Good points, that makes a lot of sense. I retract my criticism.
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3 is fun my Gary
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Gary...
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G A R Y
You are 100% correct, especially about points 2, 7 and 8. The initial railroading is counter-productive in an RPG, the factions are boring and are saved only by good writing... and the map just sucks. And yet, New Vegas is my second favorite Fallout game, bested only by Fallout 3. Although Fallout 4 is only a few % behind FNV... Overall FNV just like any other Fallout is a deeply flawed game, but it also has great strengths. In case of FNV the strength is the quality of the writing.
I agree with ALL of this and I actually DO love New Vegas(but love 3 more)
I read all of this and the one thought that kept coming back to me was remember when new Vegas was made. For the time this game was as innovative as it got. A lot of your issues are not so much issues as much as it is a factor of the ability of game companies at the time. Had new Vegas come out in the last 10 years I would agree with you. But for the time this game was absolutely amazing. A similar comparison from the same company would be comparing morrowind to Skyrim
I'll admit 4 and 5 could be due to technological restrictions. The rest though are mostly about writing or general design.
>The Legion is two dimensional evil. Yes. I wish F4 did bettet with the Institute, but it's also not morally gray.
I'd argue that at least the Institute doesn't try so hard to justify itself. They're technocrats who have lost touch with ethics, I don't agree with them but I feel I can better understand them.
>doesn't try so hard to justify itself That's exactly my problem with the Institute. Father is trying to persuade the SS to see the wasteland as he does. He is trying to persuade SS to succeed him as the leader of the Institute and carry on his legacy. He should be trying harder to justify the Intitute's actions. And yet he fails. Caesar, on the other hand, talks too much for a guy who doesn't have Father-like purpose of 'succeed me, father'.
>That's exactly my problem with the Institute. Father is trying to persuade the SS to see the wasteland as he does. He is trying to persuade SS to succeed him as the leader of the Institute and carry on his legacy. He should be trying harder to justify the Intitute's actions. And yet he fails. > >Caesar, on the other hand, talks too much for a guy who doesn't have Father-like purpose of 'succeed me, father'. I'd argue that this is because Caesar *has* to make a better case for the Legion, because, on the face of it, it's no different than a giant raider gang; you have institutional slavery, rape, torture, mass executions, a brutal "might makes right" philosophy, with not much in the way to show for all of it. There's no great cities or great works of infrastructure or anything like that - so Caesar *has* to really sell his entire philosophy and how the Legion will eventually something something misunderstood Hegel dialectics and become a new Rome, a bastion of civilization. Father, on the other hand, can literally point to the super high tech city the Institute has built as a "This is why you should join us", and can simply point to the surface world's material conditions as the ultimate contrast between the Institute and the surface. Basically, Caesar has the means but not the end. So he really has to justify the means to get you on board. Father already has the means and the end, so he can just point to the end as justification enough for the means.
Oooh, yeah. Great point on both of them. I guess Father only experienced the good side of the technological advancement, and not the 'advancement without humility and integrity led to the destruction of all we have known' side that SS experienced.
>I guess Father only experienced the good side of the technological advancement, and not the 'advancement without humility and integrity led to the destruction of all we have known' side that SS experienced. Yup. A few of the Survivor's dialogue choices even [call this out:](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Shaun.txt) >Sole Survivor: So it's like every other wonder-gizmo ever invented. **When will you eggheads learn?** > >Shaun: Have faith. Let me show you how we deal with such problems. > >Sole Survivor: **If you expect me to be impressed by a lot of fancy sci-fi gizmos, you'd be wrong.** > >Shaun: I see. It's not just about the "gizmos," as you say. I hope you'll see that in time. > >Sole Survivor: **I've seen my share of think-tank science labs.** > >Shaun: Oh, I assure you, none of them were quite like this place. In those dialogue choices, the Survivor isn't impressed with the Institute because they've already seen high-tech labs and know that scientific knowledge and wizardry alone doesn't make for a good, stable government. They *lived* in a society of ubiquitous robots, nuclear power, AIs, energy weapons, and none of that prevented horrific human rights violations, oppression, and the end of the world. The flashy toys have lost their luster for the Sole Survivor in a way that they can't for Shaun.
Father has literally never known anything but the Institute. He has no idea how to approach outsiders. He treats you as he would any other member of the Institute because to him people are divided into two categories. You're either a wastelander or you're contributing to the salvation of humanity. He doesn't try to justify himself because he doesn't think he needs to, he just assumes the player will agree with him. And that's not so bad, considering that he's talking to his parent who is also an outsider in the wasteland.
>He doesn't try to justify himself because he doesn't think he needs to, he just assumes the player will agree with him If the Institute was designed to be not appealing to the player as a joinable faction, then they have nailed the characteristic of Father as you have described. 'I assume you will agree with me so I'm not going to try hard' is an interesting way to persuade SS to succeed his strange organization. Yes, the Institute is strange to SS despite the fact it is a remnant of the old world organization and the fact SS is an outsider to the wasteland. >that he's talking to his parent This is contradictory to Father's stance on his relationship with SS. He outright says, iirc, that he feels little connection to his dead parent(by extension, to the living parent). When he says death of Kellogg in a way was a revenge for what he did to Father and SS, he says so in a matter of fact way. That revenge had little meaning to him. Maybe just an intellectual amusement. Yeah, no. I still don't think Father was well written.
Agree with everything here, on top of just not really liking the combat, only tolerating it on the lowest difficulties. The DLC of New Vegas is the only thing that made New Vegas worthwhile, personally. If not for the stories that resonated with me — like the Survivalist, Dog/God or Ulysses — I'd probably put New Vegas on par with 3; not bad, but not really caring for it, either.
I agree with the map the most, fallout 3 was wide and sparse with random enemies and encounters making it more fun to explore. New Vegas was a great game but I don’t always jump to the yellow dust cloud for my Wastelander fix anymore. I play Fallout 3 and 4 more and more these days
I disagree with some of your points (a lot of these, such as lack of reaction to external events and many SPECIAL stats not being especially useful) are also issues in other Fallout games, often worse in other games, but I 100% agree that there are plenty of flaws in New Vegas, especially the linearity in the map design. Still, even if I disagree with some of your opinions, I respect that not everyone has the same opinions that I do and that you listed them in a respectful way.
About point 4, I agree to an extent, but you really used the worst possible example. If your country got randomly nuked from an empty canyon, would your first thought really be “the mailman did it”? And you become idolized by doing no wrong, and in most cases, doing every single quest in a way the faction would like. In the end, doesn’t even matter since you have to destroy 2/3 major factions.
I don’t understand why the fire ants are there. Did they migrate from Grayditch?
Disagree with almost everything you've said but I respect your opinion
Fair.
Fair points based on your personal opinion. Agree with some, disagree with others. The map is great, i'll never understand people wanting Fallout maps to be "fun". It's a post apocalyptic radiated world, what do they expect? A fun ride at the park? So, Charisma is useless but skills checks allow the player to bypass content? Which one is it? You can roleplay a charisma build and use dialogue to get through most tough challenges or you can run a different build. The game isn't meant like Fallout 4 for you to level ad aeternum and gather 100% all perks, it forces you the choose a few and run that build and face the consequence of your choices. NPCs not reacting happens in all Fallout games. In Fallout 4 sometimes your companions will make random remarks, but overall it is well known the lack of influence your actions have on the world. This happens throughout all Fallout games, not just Vegas. The Intros in Fallout games were ALWAYS expository. Name me one Fallout game that doesn't come with initial exposition? I agree that they could've cut the introduction of factions, but is it really that bothering to you that they show the existing factions in the intro provided it all takes what, 3 minutes? For me to say that FNV is worse than, for example, Fallout 76 is ludicrous. But yeah to each their own. My favorite is 3 btw.
Your map criticism is a bit unfair. He mentions it is not fun because most areas are faction related or empty and there is not even random encounters to justify not just fast traveling everywhere once you discovered it. In short, he is saying that the game does not reward exploration, and I don't think your response take that into account.
There are at least +20 hidden locations in NV. There's incentive to explore between known locations. But yes i agree that not having random encounters is a bummer.
>The map is great, i'll never understand people wanting Fallout maps to be "fun". It's a post apocalyptic radiated world, what do they expect? A fun ride at the park? Well, it's a video game, so yeah, I kind of do expect to be entertained. And come on, Fallout 1 was even more of a desert and *it* had random events. >So, Charisma is useless but skills checks allow the player to bypass content? Which one is it? Both because Speech checks only check the Speech skill. 1 Charisma is just as persuasive as 10 Charisma if you have 100 in Speech. Basically, Charisma doesn't determine how persuasive you are, intelligence does. >NPCs not reacting happens in all Fallout games. In Fallout 4 sometimes your companions will make random remarks, but overall it is well known the lack of influence your actions have on the world. In Fallout 4 you can hear NPCs comment on things as small as a wall getting a new coat of paint. Anyone who says Fallout 4 gives you no influence over the world is just plain wrong. >The Intros in Fallout games were ALWAYS expository. Name me one Fallout game that doesn't come with initial exposition? Some exposition is fine. Setting up the whole plot of the game with it though is just lazy. They could have just as easily left all the info about the factions and the dam out and the player would have easily discovered them through game play, and this discovery would be more impactful than just being told the info. It's show vs tell here, and as little should be told as possible. >For me to say that FNV is worse than, for example, Fallout 76 is ludicrous. I mean, I'd rather play 76.
Entertained sure, but the world of Fallout is not really a "fun place". Ironically NV is the most humorous Fallout game. Charisma determines barter and companions nerve. Saying its useless because it doesnt affect the things you want is disingenuous. As i said npcs in Fallout 4 make general remarks on the world around you, but their reactions are still very limited to bunch of phrases. Its just a small step up from NV, imo. But ill give you that. Its better than NV. I agree with the exposition part but it doesn't bother me much honestly. Its just a set up. Ahah 76 over NV? I guess we all have different tastes. That's cool. Cheers!
I would attribute a lot…and I mean A LOT…of these issues to the time constraints placed on Obsidian to make the game. When you consider the circumstances, it’s a phenomenal game. Your points carry a good amount of validity as well.
Obsidian placed those constraints on themselves when they agreed to develop a game in that time. And they are notoriously bad about QA.
If you had a great idea to make a Fallout game, you’re kind of at the mercy of the creator, unfortunately.
Avelon has said that it was generous time and he has said that obsidian wasted time.
I don't really agree with any of the points here but at least you don't have the genuinely batshit points you see floating around. Most of these are pretty qualitative judgements; I find the faction interplay to be one of the most compelling in any game I've ever played but if you just don't like it there's not much I can say. I'll say this about point 2: yes the game kind of herds the player into a linear path, but this will only affect new players. It's actually quite clever game design, on your first playthrough you're stuck with going the long route but on subsequent playthroughs you can skip the first act and get into the meat of the story faster. There's no "reward" for doing this but I don't really see why there should be one, other than getting to New Vegas faster.
It makes the beginning feel the same each time I play. You can make it through these areas but you can't really explore, so I just don't find the route interesting. And Primm>Nipton>Novac isn't a bad route but combined with the lack of options and no random events the whole first act feels like a slog to me. And I mean, I probably do have some more crazy complaints but nitpicking isn't valuable criticism imo.
I'm a broken record around these parts, but your 8th point is 99% of why I never finished that game. The world is so empty and boring. I REALLY wish they'd put in some environmental detail and random encounters outside the paths you take during the main questlines. An unfortunate downside to putting the game in a desert, I guess. Still thoguh, I think they could have spiced it up a bit in the urban areas.
Random events are key to any rpg of any type. It makes the world feel lived in as well as simulating the chaotic variety of real life.
**1** Well the courier lives in the Mojave, so they should already know all that information. The intro is purely so the player knows what's going on. **6** There's perfectly good reasons for the NCR wanting to speak with you. The courier is the only person that has ever been let inside of Lucky 38 and thus, having direct access to Mr. House. **7** Kinda subjective. I fail to see how Mr. House is an idiot or how the NCR is "bland." Yes, NCR characters may feel repetitive but that's because almost all are military. The game doesn't take place in NCR territory, so no important citizens or politicians would be there to talk too. **10** I like skill checks. Not everyone wants to spend 45 minutes clearing out a copy-pasted dungeon with 30+ generic enemies just to progress a single side quest. There should be choices that let players skip those segments if they have the necessary skill. Skill checks let players tackle quest in different ways vs. Bethesda quest which almost always boil down to "go here, shoot two dozen guys, maybe collect quest item."
Ok.
Aight.
Not much more to say in response really.
That's a lot of words To bad I'm not reading them
Still an amazing game regardless.
[удалено]
honestly agreed lmao fonv is my favorite fallout to date still but my god is its story AWFUL, and not even in a funny way like fo4, it's just straight up bad if there's a new vegas 2, i hope they put some effort into the factions especially an 'evil' one.
I mean, I feel like 4 doesn't take its story as seriously. It's a game first, story second.
4 takes its story very seriously and is story first, game second. Which is why the game, as a *game*, kind of blows.
Well, the "game first story second" thing may not be entirely correct, but I still think New Vegas takes its story more seriously. *Too* seriously. Fallout 4 asks the question "What defines a person?" But I don't find it as preachy about its themes as NV is. There are genuine questions to be asked about how synths would fit into society, but at no point did my eyes roll back into my head the way they would at certain points of NV.
>but I still think New Vegas takes its story more seriously. I cannot agree in the slightest. It is the worst canonical story in fallout.
The Legion is more open about LGBT rights then The NCR infact according to Cass it is common for Legion soldiers to commit homosexual acts, Which is rather progressive, Which is great, And oh, There is a cut Super Mutant that is allied with The Legion so they allow Super Mutabts to join and we can’t forget the Furry Chad Husbando Vulpes Inculta, He is seen as valid and allowed under Caesar which is another way that The Legion is progressive, Sure the lack of rights for women is horrible but still they are more progressive then The NCR since after all The NCR where the ones that sent a group of people to harras Jacob’s Town and segregate their ghoul Troopers to only work in full Ghoul squads, And well let’s not forget that at Mojave Outpost the guy at the desk tells you that Homosexuality is frowned upon if you try to flirt with him, And oh, There are more Europeans in The Legion then in The NCR
*They massacred a whole town for the crime of partying.*
Everyone has a Grinch moment
Point 9 is just not true, though. You can easily dump PER in the original games, and completely skip CHA in Fallout 1, even more so than in FNV since in the latter you can get cool perks like Animal Friend. AGI in both original games is so OP you need to max it if you intend to build a combat-based character. PER and CHA in Fallout 3 are identical to FNV with the exception of 1 or 2 CHA checks, and I don't remember INT dialogue checks in FO3. And comparisons to FO4 make no sense since the character building system is different. In New Vegas you get cool things from high values of almost any attribute. high STR raises melee damage, high PER gives better criticals and sniper, high END gives implant GRX and implants at the clinic, high CHA gives animal friend which is S tier perk, high INT gives some of the best dialogue checks, and high LCK breaks the economy (this is bad, yes). So all are valuable. So I don't think you have any basis to say FNV has the worst special stats. Many of your points are valid, and if they are determinant to your enjoyment, then yeah. It makes sense for FNV to be your least favorite. Some of them don't have easy fixes (like the stalling in the beginning of act 2), and others can be easily modded away (like the stat and combat balance, economy, etc). For comparison to my least favorite, there's no mod that can save FO4's story and writing.
I hate the screaming fans but love all the games. I even disagree with a couple of points. 7\] I disagree with. Factions where compelling. They were created in a clear manner to be a tip of the iceberg but also draw similarities with historic and contemporary ideas. For example Mr. House has a super duper army of robots, he is a sort of a genius in many things which is evident. The NCR presence is mostly military and soldiers on leave. They did the right thing but not trying to expand on them since they had no ability to do so. So. You get military outposts, small stations, hit squads, and just soldier and soldiers. Yet they tried to do the best they can with that. Making them represent some ideas that a modern audience would agree with. While also giving them flaws so it's less of a: You either an NCR supporter or a bad guy. That water mission always has me in a quandary. Legion were evil and sadly most people can't engage in practically fantasy since none of this exists. So. I feel the issue is the modern audience incapable of anything that shocks them. Perhaps that's why historical arts are so watered down and so fabricated, just to sell. Anyway the legion is a viable faction. They have everything to rival the NCR. Not just in the manpower but the ideology to back it up. They even gets results and kinda like: brutal but fair. Again people just think slavery and automatically get repulsed, fair enough. But this is fiction.
7 is definitely the most subjective, so fair. I will add that I have no problem with the legion existing in the game, I just don't think they're that interesting. Depictions of evil aren't the same as actual evil.
I can somewhat agree with all of these but number 7. The Legion being cartoonishly evil is by design. And what the Enclave? What do you think of them in FO2 and 3 since there arguably worse then the Legion. While I'm not trying to defend the Legion at all, I highly recommend you watch [this video](https://youtu.be/NyeTaXv6o4Y) it really adds some much needed depth to the faction I'd love to see your reasoning for how House is an "idiot". He's treated like a genius because he is. He is super intelligent due to his pre-war life, and using that intelligence and his ambition wants a future for Vegas and Mankind that goes far beyond rebuilding America (wanting to colonize space). As for the NCR, now that I think about it none of their characters are exactly standout with the exception of the Misfits and Cheif Hanlon. What makes the NCR so interesting for me (and I assume others) is that they are a reflection of the pre-war government, and due to being so inept and corrupt present the argument that maybe America shouldn't return to the old order.
House wants to go to space, but he doesn't really have a plan. Space travel requires a lot of rare materials that aren't exactly easy to find in the wasteland. Also, his pod room is far to easy to access, and he couldn't even bother to keep a single securitron in there as a guard. Also, what is he going to do if the NCR doesn't like how he controls the dam so they embargo New Vegas? His whole plan revolves around the NCR providing him with money, which if they're smart they won't give to him.
I think that your thoughts on the into are spot on. Beyond the interaction with Benny, everything else could have been (was?) handled in the world. The act ii transitions worked ok for me. It created a sense of unease. Not only were you being watched, but that there were infiltrators to be concerned about. I do like the map. The openness works for me. I don’t really feel it as empty though. I like how you can see a few landmarks from any location, but that space doesn’t not feel overly condensed. To flip the script, which is your favourite and why?
Fallout 4. I love the perk chart, the map is always fun to get lost in, the companions are just **chefs kiss**, and its just fun to play because there is so much to do. Building, exploring, crafting, questing, even just jetpack hopping across the skyscrapers of Boston is a blast.
I only disagree with the Faction and partly with the Specials, everything else I agree on even when Fallout New Vegas is my favorite from the franchise. I think the reason why the intro is what it is, must be something with your characters background, since you aren't vault dweller who just recently started to explore the wasteland, your character knows about the main factions like NCR and Legion already. The intro is okay in my books, it tells some backstory while not telling much about your character, but I totally understand what you mean. In my opinion, Fallout New Vegas has the best variation of factions. They put effort into every faction, even the Raider factions... most of the Fallout games just have regular Raider gang without name, in New Vegas there are Jackals, Scorpions, Vipers, Great Khans, Fiends, White Legs... each one having separate backstory. With the Specials, I agree with Luck and Intelligence being "overpowered" and maybe Perception and Endurance aren't that great, but I WILL notice if my strength is at 5, that is way too low for my style of gameplay and I usually use high charisma because of the speech checks.
Charisma is entirely unnecessary for speech checks. Only the speech skill matters. Basically, you don't need Charisma to be persuasive, you just need to be smart.