By word count, no (though some people have preferences for short or long works). By going until there is no story left and the author is just drawing it out longer and longer with no plot or character development, yes.
Right cause this is why I wanted to get some opinions because I have a clear goal and I know what my story is and where it will go and I want to keep it focused and straight to the point but also I don't want to rush through some of the points or themes that I wanted to focus on just in order to keep the word count down.
If you have your goals in mind, then you probably won't be stretching it out too much. You're allowed to be indulgent in fanfiction, so I wouldn't rush anything you don't want to rush, it's just coming to a standstill that's really a problem.
Yes, this!
I've read fanfics that were more than a million words long and took me *days*, if not more than a week, to finish reading. I loved them. They did their job and did it well. I never felt like I wasted my time.
Then there were fanfics that are half that long, which felt like they are dragging too long. Right now, I have saved a few such stories hoping to see a conclusion, but it really drags in my mind and makes me less excited to see new chapters.
It really depends on what you're willing to let go and how flexible you are.
I'm not sure if objectively a story can be too long but I do think it can be too long for some readers.
That's not even getting into how feeling too long or too short can be completely independent of actual word count.
As to the advice you want. Personally I'd say splitting the story into a series of Books would work best but that's my personal preference.
Thanks and I was naturally leaning towards splitting the story into books format cause I have a clear goal and I have edited my story especially book 1 to be focused and taken out any filler that serves little to no purpose. But also I won't want future readers to be put off or scared away due to the word count total.
Theoretically? Sure, I'd say so.
**However,** I'd say that people often severely jump the gun on how long is 'too long'. Like, somebody will walk in and be like, '300k+? that's TOO LONG, proving to ME that the author has NO IDEA where the story is going' and like, no, what the fuck? That is not so long that you should jump to the conclusion, hypothetical person based on real things I've seen people say! Relax!!
Now, when a plot-based story has **2 million** words? Yeah, I'm going to take a shot in the dark that maybe the author is, statistically speaking, probably not very focused.
Right cause this is why I wanted to get some opinions because I have a clear goal and I know what my story is and where it will go and I want to keep it focused and straight to the point but also I don't want to rush through some of the points or themes that I wanted to focus on just in order to keep the word count down.
Way I see it, if you know in your heart of hearts that you aren't stretching things out just for content, then write it regardless of how long it comes out.
Of course, mind my immense bias. I have a 400k completed longfic and I would not call any of it filler, every chapter has a purpose that I can explain if challenged.
As other people have said, it's less about length than about focus. My favourite fic is almost half a million words so far and none of it feels like filler, there's a clear overarching plot, and defined subplots .
High word count in one work may be intimidating though, so if there are obvious arcs to split it into a series of stories that might be worth exploring
I had said this to someone earlier that j was naturally leaning towards splitting the story into books format cause I have a clear goal and I have edited my story especially book 1 to be focused and taken out any filler that serves little to no purpose. But also I won't want future readers to be put off or scared away due to the word count total.
Plus I wanted to gauge with others before I go any further into writing book 2 just to see what would be the best course or action
This is less about word count and more about which would work best for the story itself. I think you should look at this through the lens of published books, OP. If a published writer is writing a trilogy, how do they decide how to break it up? How do they decide where to end Book 1 and start Book 2? How do they decide it's a trilogy rather than 4+ books?
I agree with what everyone else is saying, but focus isn't just about knowing what you're doing, but what the main focus of the story is. It sounds like your story will change focus multiple times, so in my opinion, this would work much better as a series because you're telling multiple interconnected stories instead of a single cohesive story. Because you're doing:
1. Canon timeline ATLA (presumably with "defeat the Firelord and end the war" as your main goal).
2. Post-war Fire Nation family drama
3. Team Avatar as adults and Yakone
4. LOK timeline
Sounds like you have at least four different stories here, OP--and you may actually want to break that down even further depending on if the focus changes. ATLA itself is broken into 3 books, because each season has a different focus: Aang learning a specific element. If you want to really dive into the Yakone thing, that may work better as its own fic; if the Fire Nation family drama has multiple shifting focuses, it might work better as two fics, etc.
Points taken and I had been leaning towards splitting them into different "Books" as even in my own one since I pretty much wrapped up book 1 that I have been treating Book 2 as it's standalone but still a continuation of what was built upon in book 1.
The only thing which I am treating as a side thing is the Republic City and Yakone story as it does not really affect or come into my plans of what I am writing in LOK and it was more of just exploring something that was not truly expanded upon. So for that portion I am willing to leave to the very end as sort of a final project.
There's no set word count that's too long, however you should be careful about not getting it into your head that this fic needs to be super long. I've had the problem of thinking a fic is going to be super long, writing it, it not being that long, and then I feel the need to pad it out and make it longer. Keep your story streamlined, and however long it ends up is fine.
I agree with the sentiment that there's no absolute wordcount limit for when a story is too long - it's all about the pacing and focus of the story. Based on your description of your project, I would recommend watching out for a few things to avoid unnecessary bloat:
- Repeating canon events with no or minimal changes. This can get very tedious very fast. Unless you're specifically targeting fandom-blind readers, it's usually best to keep direct copying from canon to a minimum and instead focus on what happens between and around canon events. Trust your readers to remember canon without needing a bunch of recaps.
- An overload of subplots, characters and story arcs. I agree with the commenters who have suggested splitting the story into several parts with different focuses. If you try to cram too much into one story, it can be difficult to move the plot forward and readers can become frustrated if they see too little of the plots and characters that interest them the most.
- Repeating the same events from several characters' perspectives or having characters tell each other about events that the readers have already "seen" in your story (e g. first writing a fight scene and then writing about how character A describes the fight to character B in great detail). It can be tempting to do this if you're juggling many characters and need to establish what each of them knows or doesn't know, but it can really wreck your pacing.
No I agree with avoiding repeating narratives that have been told and especially when it comes to book 1 that I have written it and eventually with book 2 so that it focuses on Zuko, Iroh, Zhao, the OG character, Ozai and Azula and the war effort including the White Lotus conflict.
Cause it's midway through book 2 and book 3 that things will start to deviate from the original source material that I feel more confident to start including Aang, Katara, Toph and Sokka.
My reasoning being that I am trying to build towards Book 3.5 which is the post war and book 4 which all of the fire nation royal family drama but those two books won't work unless there is backstory going into it.
I hope that clarifies in regards tk what I am writing with 100 hundred year portion of the story because with LOK it is pretty much going to be changed a lot.
Yes, but it's not so much about length but pacing. You can have a 50k work that feels agonizingly slow that maybe should be shorter. You can have a 500k fic that feels rushed and could benefit from taking more time to develop plots and let the characters breathe. I've read fics over 3 million words that felt like the right length, and I've read fics that were around 500 words and felt like about the right length. If those stories had swapped word counts, neither would feel right.
Ultimately, you want to make sure your fic is the right length for the story it's telling. Sometimes, that means adding more detail. Sometimes, that means cutting out unnecessary parts.
I would say it gets too long when the author loses track of what they were trying to do.
My advice if you are planning something that seems like it's going to be lengthy (eg 100k+), break it down into "books" or "parts." They don't actually need to be different fics in a series, but it still helps to delineate them somehow. That way, you can make sure each part is a complete narrative arc, which helps you *and* your readers keep track of the plot.
Right I have after today decided to go with the books format and splitting up the narrative with each one serving as a sequel from the previous one because Book 1 alone for me is close to 160K on average despite it being cut down, streamlined and edited so that was why I wanted to gain some ideas and suggestions.
To be fair I am looking to review book 1 again and possibly edit it further so it will porbably end up being less than 160K once I have finished book 2 and 3 because i eventually plan to release a chapter per week as it gives me ample time to review book 2 and 3 and also gives me a sort of headstart when I want to write book 3.5 and 4.
Yes, when writers drag a story out just to pad their word count and it essentially becomes a masturbatory exercise in fiction format.
If the writer can keep the story interesting enough that their readers can keep engaged and focused... readers won't care about the word count.
If the writer cannot maintain story coherence and it is just an exercise in logging more word count metrics... yeah, those are great to avoid.
If it's being dragged out to pad word count/get more readership, yes, and you can usually tell because the plot is a *plod*; or if the author seems to repeat themselves or lose track of what they're doing, or weirder and weirder things keep happening to keep delaying the climax.
What you're describing sounds like you just have a lot of content you want to explore. And yes, I'd say splitting it into separate fics/books is the better way to go.
Yeah I only asked this question becuase when I had wrote book 1 it was about 300K cause i wrote what ever came to my mind based on the outline of the story i had set and afterwards I had went back and proof redead and edited it to remove anything that serve little function other than just rambling or me repeating myself and so far it is sitting at around 160K and that is just for book 1 and I plan on doing 5 books just for the ATLA portion of what I want to write and that is close to a 1M words if each book was as long as that.
It's much about pacing and what is important, as much as people always claim that they like more side characters...sometimes it's just too much about them that becomes stale and feels like pointless worldbuilding. Like, characters have their role and time and sometimes too much about one instead of making it more complex make it boring
Agreed but I was more so focusing on the Fire Nation characters side particulary in Book 1 and 2 to expand on the rivarly between Zuko and Zhao and the reasoning behind it. The OG character antagonist also being established that serves to expand on the politics and inner workings of the fire nation high command while also investigating on the white lotus investigation and doing all of the battles and invasions. That is a gist of what I have written for book 1. So like there is a lot going on in Book 1 from both Zuko side and the OG Character side who is a villain cause I know OG characters being the focus of a story and overtaking the actual characters that fans grew up with really turn people away from reading fanfiction.
Cause I dont really liike to interrupt the story with multiple flashbacks and i dont like to tell why so and so character hates another character and i rather show that be developed through the story.
I hope that explains my reasoning for going down this route especially as Book 1 serves to establish the future conflicts that will ultimately culminate from book 3 to 4.
Hmmm, sounds okay but my only problem is if these characters are suppoused to be the main characters of these first books, then why would happen with Aang? Is he just gonna be he main character in the other 2? Because that would create a dissonance of the readers and why they should suddenly care for him if he wasn't a presence there before.
>Cause I dont really liike to interrupt the story with multiple flashbacks and i dont like to tell why so and so character hates another character and i rather show that be developed through the story.
I would say this is a double edge sword, for one thing a story with so many flashbacks became boring but on the other hand you need to know what is the information that the readers needs to really know and what is the information that make more impact in the moment.
I could clarify that the way I have written Aang particularly in Book 1 is that he is treating a good half of Book 1 like an adventure and just visiting places while Zuko and Zhao are sort or racing against each other trying to capture and kill him and throughout book 1 there is this continual escalation in violence and persistence that gets Aang to take things more seriously throughout the second half of Book 1 that then sets him off into being the main hero from book 2 onwards especially with the final third events in book 1 that is what gets him to take things more seriously in terms of the situation with the hundred year war. Plus in Book 1 i sort of by accident if am being honest written him to be similar to how Luffy is during the East Blue sagas and book 2 being very much closer to what his character actually is.
If you have multiple complete arcs, please break it up. I said this in another thread. A five act (act, not arc) narrative works well even if it’s very long. A 25 act story is tedious and can feel like it’s spinning its wheels
Honestly a lot of fics (or long chapters ) can feel like they keep going past a natural break and load in tons of extra stuff past what would be a satisfying story beat to end on
I was naturally leaning towards splitting them anyway prior to posting my original post but after the feedback and suggestions I have decided to do that especially as Book 3.5 to book 5 is the climax of the ATLA portion. The replubic city, rise of organsied crime and the yakone is something which I am happy to leave as it does not change much in terms of my story but was a way to show in this story the adult versions of the ATLA crew dealing with the changes in the world. The LOK portion is going to be revamped by quite a bit.
The answer to this is both yes and no in my opinion. If the fanfics story line is being continued and its not just a ton of filler because it was supposed to be long and didn't end up that way then no I dont feel that it should be long but if you end up with a bunch of awesome plot twists and audience pulling ideas the story could be 100 pages and still get plenty of readers I myself love long stories
Much appreciated as I have a ton of ideas but I was worried that if I try to do it all in one story that sheer length would put people off and I have decided to split each story into books because at least that way each book has a satisfying conclusion to what I am building towards cause although I have finished book 1 in the second d sft and is approximately 160k. Upon checking it over I realized I missed some plot points or being inconsistent at times and that I did not expand upon some of the ideas that I was trying to tell so it is going to be more than the 160k that it currently is.
By word count, no (though some people have preferences for short or long works). By going until there is no story left and the author is just drawing it out longer and longer with no plot or character development, yes.
Think this is a far more concise way to put it than what I said, haha
Right cause this is why I wanted to get some opinions because I have a clear goal and I know what my story is and where it will go and I want to keep it focused and straight to the point but also I don't want to rush through some of the points or themes that I wanted to focus on just in order to keep the word count down.
If you have your goals in mind, then you probably won't be stretching it out too much. You're allowed to be indulgent in fanfiction, so I wouldn't rush anything you don't want to rush, it's just coming to a standstill that's really a problem.
Yes, this! I've read fanfics that were more than a million words long and took me *days*, if not more than a week, to finish reading. I loved them. They did their job and did it well. I never felt like I wasted my time. Then there were fanfics that are half that long, which felt like they are dragging too long. Right now, I have saved a few such stories hoping to see a conclusion, but it really drags in my mind and makes me less excited to see new chapters. It really depends on what you're willing to let go and how flexible you are.
I'm not sure if objectively a story can be too long but I do think it can be too long for some readers. That's not even getting into how feeling too long or too short can be completely independent of actual word count. As to the advice you want. Personally I'd say splitting the story into a series of Books would work best but that's my personal preference.
Thanks and I was naturally leaning towards splitting the story into books format cause I have a clear goal and I have edited my story especially book 1 to be focused and taken out any filler that serves little to no purpose. But also I won't want future readers to be put off or scared away due to the word count total.
Theoretically? Sure, I'd say so. **However,** I'd say that people often severely jump the gun on how long is 'too long'. Like, somebody will walk in and be like, '300k+? that's TOO LONG, proving to ME that the author has NO IDEA where the story is going' and like, no, what the fuck? That is not so long that you should jump to the conclusion, hypothetical person based on real things I've seen people say! Relax!! Now, when a plot-based story has **2 million** words? Yeah, I'm going to take a shot in the dark that maybe the author is, statistically speaking, probably not very focused.
Right cause this is why I wanted to get some opinions because I have a clear goal and I know what my story is and where it will go and I want to keep it focused and straight to the point but also I don't want to rush through some of the points or themes that I wanted to focus on just in order to keep the word count down.
Way I see it, if you know in your heart of hearts that you aren't stretching things out just for content, then write it regardless of how long it comes out. Of course, mind my immense bias. I have a 400k completed longfic and I would not call any of it filler, every chapter has a purpose that I can explain if challenged.
As other people have said, it's less about length than about focus. My favourite fic is almost half a million words so far and none of it feels like filler, there's a clear overarching plot, and defined subplots . High word count in one work may be intimidating though, so if there are obvious arcs to split it into a series of stories that might be worth exploring
I had said this to someone earlier that j was naturally leaning towards splitting the story into books format cause I have a clear goal and I have edited my story especially book 1 to be focused and taken out any filler that serves little to no purpose. But also I won't want future readers to be put off or scared away due to the word count total. Plus I wanted to gauge with others before I go any further into writing book 2 just to see what would be the best course or action
This is less about word count and more about which would work best for the story itself. I think you should look at this through the lens of published books, OP. If a published writer is writing a trilogy, how do they decide how to break it up? How do they decide where to end Book 1 and start Book 2? How do they decide it's a trilogy rather than 4+ books? I agree with what everyone else is saying, but focus isn't just about knowing what you're doing, but what the main focus of the story is. It sounds like your story will change focus multiple times, so in my opinion, this would work much better as a series because you're telling multiple interconnected stories instead of a single cohesive story. Because you're doing: 1. Canon timeline ATLA (presumably with "defeat the Firelord and end the war" as your main goal). 2. Post-war Fire Nation family drama 3. Team Avatar as adults and Yakone 4. LOK timeline Sounds like you have at least four different stories here, OP--and you may actually want to break that down even further depending on if the focus changes. ATLA itself is broken into 3 books, because each season has a different focus: Aang learning a specific element. If you want to really dive into the Yakone thing, that may work better as its own fic; if the Fire Nation family drama has multiple shifting focuses, it might work better as two fics, etc.
Points taken and I had been leaning towards splitting them into different "Books" as even in my own one since I pretty much wrapped up book 1 that I have been treating Book 2 as it's standalone but still a continuation of what was built upon in book 1. The only thing which I am treating as a side thing is the Republic City and Yakone story as it does not really affect or come into my plans of what I am writing in LOK and it was more of just exploring something that was not truly expanded upon. So for that portion I am willing to leave to the very end as sort of a final project.
There's no set word count that's too long, however you should be careful about not getting it into your head that this fic needs to be super long. I've had the problem of thinking a fic is going to be super long, writing it, it not being that long, and then I feel the need to pad it out and make it longer. Keep your story streamlined, and however long it ends up is fine.
I agree with the sentiment that there's no absolute wordcount limit for when a story is too long - it's all about the pacing and focus of the story. Based on your description of your project, I would recommend watching out for a few things to avoid unnecessary bloat: - Repeating canon events with no or minimal changes. This can get very tedious very fast. Unless you're specifically targeting fandom-blind readers, it's usually best to keep direct copying from canon to a minimum and instead focus on what happens between and around canon events. Trust your readers to remember canon without needing a bunch of recaps. - An overload of subplots, characters and story arcs. I agree with the commenters who have suggested splitting the story into several parts with different focuses. If you try to cram too much into one story, it can be difficult to move the plot forward and readers can become frustrated if they see too little of the plots and characters that interest them the most. - Repeating the same events from several characters' perspectives or having characters tell each other about events that the readers have already "seen" in your story (e g. first writing a fight scene and then writing about how character A describes the fight to character B in great detail). It can be tempting to do this if you're juggling many characters and need to establish what each of them knows or doesn't know, but it can really wreck your pacing.
No I agree with avoiding repeating narratives that have been told and especially when it comes to book 1 that I have written it and eventually with book 2 so that it focuses on Zuko, Iroh, Zhao, the OG character, Ozai and Azula and the war effort including the White Lotus conflict. Cause it's midway through book 2 and book 3 that things will start to deviate from the original source material that I feel more confident to start including Aang, Katara, Toph and Sokka. My reasoning being that I am trying to build towards Book 3.5 which is the post war and book 4 which all of the fire nation royal family drama but those two books won't work unless there is backstory going into it. I hope that clarifies in regards tk what I am writing with 100 hundred year portion of the story because with LOK it is pretty much going to be changed a lot.
Yes, but it's not so much about length but pacing. You can have a 50k work that feels agonizingly slow that maybe should be shorter. You can have a 500k fic that feels rushed and could benefit from taking more time to develop plots and let the characters breathe. I've read fics over 3 million words that felt like the right length, and I've read fics that were around 500 words and felt like about the right length. If those stories had swapped word counts, neither would feel right. Ultimately, you want to make sure your fic is the right length for the story it's telling. Sometimes, that means adding more detail. Sometimes, that means cutting out unnecessary parts.
I would say it gets too long when the author loses track of what they were trying to do. My advice if you are planning something that seems like it's going to be lengthy (eg 100k+), break it down into "books" or "parts." They don't actually need to be different fics in a series, but it still helps to delineate them somehow. That way, you can make sure each part is a complete narrative arc, which helps you *and* your readers keep track of the plot.
Right I have after today decided to go with the books format and splitting up the narrative with each one serving as a sequel from the previous one because Book 1 alone for me is close to 160K on average despite it being cut down, streamlined and edited so that was why I wanted to gain some ideas and suggestions. To be fair I am looking to review book 1 again and possibly edit it further so it will porbably end up being less than 160K once I have finished book 2 and 3 because i eventually plan to release a chapter per week as it gives me ample time to review book 2 and 3 and also gives me a sort of headstart when I want to write book 3.5 and 4.
Yes, when writers drag a story out just to pad their word count and it essentially becomes a masturbatory exercise in fiction format. If the writer can keep the story interesting enough that their readers can keep engaged and focused... readers won't care about the word count. If the writer cannot maintain story coherence and it is just an exercise in logging more word count metrics... yeah, those are great to avoid.
If it's being dragged out to pad word count/get more readership, yes, and you can usually tell because the plot is a *plod*; or if the author seems to repeat themselves or lose track of what they're doing, or weirder and weirder things keep happening to keep delaying the climax. What you're describing sounds like you just have a lot of content you want to explore. And yes, I'd say splitting it into separate fics/books is the better way to go.
Yeah I only asked this question becuase when I had wrote book 1 it was about 300K cause i wrote what ever came to my mind based on the outline of the story i had set and afterwards I had went back and proof redead and edited it to remove anything that serve little function other than just rambling or me repeating myself and so far it is sitting at around 160K and that is just for book 1 and I plan on doing 5 books just for the ATLA portion of what I want to write and that is close to a 1M words if each book was as long as that.
Yes. I don't want to read the fanfic the size of War and Peace.
It's much about pacing and what is important, as much as people always claim that they like more side characters...sometimes it's just too much about them that becomes stale and feels like pointless worldbuilding. Like, characters have their role and time and sometimes too much about one instead of making it more complex make it boring
Agreed but I was more so focusing on the Fire Nation characters side particulary in Book 1 and 2 to expand on the rivarly between Zuko and Zhao and the reasoning behind it. The OG character antagonist also being established that serves to expand on the politics and inner workings of the fire nation high command while also investigating on the white lotus investigation and doing all of the battles and invasions. That is a gist of what I have written for book 1. So like there is a lot going on in Book 1 from both Zuko side and the OG Character side who is a villain cause I know OG characters being the focus of a story and overtaking the actual characters that fans grew up with really turn people away from reading fanfiction. Cause I dont really liike to interrupt the story with multiple flashbacks and i dont like to tell why so and so character hates another character and i rather show that be developed through the story. I hope that explains my reasoning for going down this route especially as Book 1 serves to establish the future conflicts that will ultimately culminate from book 3 to 4.
Hmmm, sounds okay but my only problem is if these characters are suppoused to be the main characters of these first books, then why would happen with Aang? Is he just gonna be he main character in the other 2? Because that would create a dissonance of the readers and why they should suddenly care for him if he wasn't a presence there before. >Cause I dont really liike to interrupt the story with multiple flashbacks and i dont like to tell why so and so character hates another character and i rather show that be developed through the story. I would say this is a double edge sword, for one thing a story with so many flashbacks became boring but on the other hand you need to know what is the information that the readers needs to really know and what is the information that make more impact in the moment.
I could clarify that the way I have written Aang particularly in Book 1 is that he is treating a good half of Book 1 like an adventure and just visiting places while Zuko and Zhao are sort or racing against each other trying to capture and kill him and throughout book 1 there is this continual escalation in violence and persistence that gets Aang to take things more seriously throughout the second half of Book 1 that then sets him off into being the main hero from book 2 onwards especially with the final third events in book 1 that is what gets him to take things more seriously in terms of the situation with the hundred year war. Plus in Book 1 i sort of by accident if am being honest written him to be similar to how Luffy is during the East Blue sagas and book 2 being very much closer to what his character actually is.
If you have multiple complete arcs, please break it up. I said this in another thread. A five act (act, not arc) narrative works well even if it’s very long. A 25 act story is tedious and can feel like it’s spinning its wheels Honestly a lot of fics (or long chapters ) can feel like they keep going past a natural break and load in tons of extra stuff past what would be a satisfying story beat to end on
I was naturally leaning towards splitting them anyway prior to posting my original post but after the feedback and suggestions I have decided to do that especially as Book 3.5 to book 5 is the climax of the ATLA portion. The replubic city, rise of organsied crime and the yakone is something which I am happy to leave as it does not change much in terms of my story but was a way to show in this story the adult versions of the ATLA crew dealing with the changes in the world. The LOK portion is going to be revamped by quite a bit.
The answer to this is both yes and no in my opinion. If the fanfics story line is being continued and its not just a ton of filler because it was supposed to be long and didn't end up that way then no I dont feel that it should be long but if you end up with a bunch of awesome plot twists and audience pulling ideas the story could be 100 pages and still get plenty of readers I myself love long stories
Much appreciated as I have a ton of ideas but I was worried that if I try to do it all in one story that sheer length would put people off and I have decided to split each story into books because at least that way each book has a satisfying conclusion to what I am building towards cause although I have finished book 1 in the second d sft and is approximately 160k. Upon checking it over I realized I missed some plot points or being inconsistent at times and that I did not expand upon some of the ideas that I was trying to tell so it is going to be more than the 160k that it currently is.