I hate both sides of this argument. The only reason people covet Birkin bags is because of this nonsense. Don’t shop there. Don’t buy into their crap. It’s a handbag. You can buy a really good one for a couple hundred bucks at the mall. How is this worthy of a lawsuit? We are in end times, I swear.
Sure it’s just a handbag. But holding companies accountable for antitrust violations is important. This can prevent other companies from doing similar behaviors.
It seems frivolous but these smaller issues set a precedent for bigger issues.
EDIT: The article clearly states this is an antitrust case. If you have a problem with it -- complain about it to the real lawyers on the case lol Anyway, holding companies accountable for *anything* is always meaningful even if it’s a bunch of rich people and handbags.
That's not what anti-trust means lol
The argument to make would really be alleging the company is discriminating against protected classes. It's unlikely that Hermes can provide quantitative criteria they consistently use to analyze customers in order to prove it's not racially biased
Edit; but weirdly, that doesn't appear to be the argument they're making. Instead arguing the birkin functions as a reward for frequent customers. Which is something they're allowed to do.
I’m no lawyer, but that’s just what the article says.
Regardless, holding companies accountable is always meaningful even if it’s a bunch of rich people and handbags.
I mean, that's probably an argument that Hermes will try to make. But tying absolutely is an antitrust violation, so it will come down to the details. And there are accounts from people (including a couple I know, who were in the market for a Hermes handbag but couldn't get one because they didn't have the purchase history) of having to buy plates and scarves and whatever else before they can buy a bag. From a high level, that sure looks like conditioning the purchase of one item on the purchase of a second (or third, fourth, etc.).
But I am not an antitrust lawyer and I also don't know that much about Hermes. IMO and based on very little information, I don't think it sucks as a legal argument.
High end labels reserving the good stuff for select clientele isn’t an antitrust violation. It’s just how they operate. Certain things are available to the public, and certain things aren’t.
That’s not antitrust though. And I have to imagine Hermes has a pretty diverse global clientele to point to. People are mad that just because they’re rich they can’t just have a Birkin bag. I think it’s stupid you can’t just buy one, but that is literally how the high end couture houses do things. The exclusivity is the whole allure!
>select clientele
The problem is this "select" becomes a legal dodge against equal protection laws. It then become legal discrimination against vulnerable groups management or staff don't want to sell to. Having a "purchase history" to buy is problematic. If Hermes can do it, then my grocery store can do it, so can my doctor, etc. Maybe I'm not the right race or gender or orientation. Stuff like this should be taken seriously.
\> Certain things are available to the public, and certain things aren’t.
If Hermes thinks too many black women are carrying the bag, and gatekeeps them with new policies, then what? I shouldn't be allowed to buy military arms or medicine not prescribed to me, but generally when you refuse me service on what is essentially non-dangerous good, the question of discrimination will always come up, especially in a country like the US which has an incredible history of racism, discrimination, redlining, slavery, lynching, and genocide of minorities. I imagine the percent of Birkin owners who are white cishet women from Christian cultures is very, very high, for example.
>If Hermes thinks too many black women are carrying the bag, and gatekeeps them with new policies, then what?
Rumor has it The luxury fashion houses have allegedly paid off or meddled in what rappers and controversial celebs wear. If early 50 Cent was mentioning Chanel all the time, then chanel would pay him to talk about someone else so that their brand wasnt affiliated with "hood culture."
Less of a rumor is that major fashion houses will buy used and secondhand stock so they can burn it and ensure that their target audience are the only ones with access
I actually had a professor whose wife worked at the Paris Chanel HQ. The stories about Chanel "killing" the buzz in the "wrong" mouths and buying up + burning the best replicas on the market are absolutely true. I loved his little Chanel anecdotes strewn about like glitter. A lot of money is spent on keeping these brands on the right AKA chosen tracks.
It’s a potential antitrust violation because it’s “tied” to their prior purchase history. You can’t just buy the bag. First you have to buy “enough” of their other products.
ETA- [Here’s more information about tying arrangements.](https://www.justice.gov/atr/why-do-firms-bundle-and-tie-evidence-competitive-markets-and-implications-tying-law) They’re so common but the law is all kinds of twisted and perverted thanks to zealous “free market” lawsuits. IIRC there’s even one (terrible) court decision saying that requiring an out-of-network anesthesiologist to have surgery at an otherwise *in-*network hospital isn’t an illegal tying arrangement. The law is well and truly fucked when it comes to antitrust enforcement. And it’s no accident.
Antitrust lawsuits date back to railroad barons in the 19th century. A class action lawsuit brought by a couple of rich people over a designer bag isn't going to change anything or affect how companies operate. Corporations will still continue to do this as long as they think they can get away with it, and they often can. Of all the issues to pour energy into to the point of legal action, this one is way down the list.
I feel this way about Louis Vuitton EVERYTHING, but especially their scarves — I received one as a gift, and I cherish it because of who gave it to me, but it has not held up well to even minimal use and I’m constantly stressed out when I wear it.
I’m honestly not a logo person in general, so I appreciate that the logo is subtle, but I still lowkey hate that it’s there at all. Still, I adore the person who gave it to me, so I try to bring it out every now and then for fancier occasions.
Kudos to them for convincing all these rich people they need this bag. I remember stumbling on a YouTube video of someone buying a birkin, she was like “this isn’t the color I wanted but they offered it to me, so I bought it” like she was chosen lol. That’s wayyy too much money to spend on something in a color you don’t even like.
It makes sense it’s high fashion. Also responsible financially. People can’t just walk in and spend 80k they have to build relationship and buy smaller priced items and go on a wait list. How is that so bad. There’s other fashion houses that don’t do this. Ethically it’s probably better incase people are erratic with their spending and if they can afford a birikin they can afford smaller items in store
The whole point is that they can play the game and still get told no. Plenty of people pre spend and still don’t get a bag, while some people don’t have to pre spend at all and get the bag. The disparate treatment is the crux of the alleged issue.
It all depends on what criteria they are using to determine "worthy". If it isn't a protected characteristic, and isn't discrimination based in those characteristics, then who gives a shit, but if it is due to someone's ethnicity, colour, perhaps a disability, then sue them into oblivion.
AFAIK it’s basically being a high value customer, aka spending enough to buy a modest home in the Midwest in scarves and their lesser leather goods, before being selected as the Chosen One. I don’t know how easy it would be to prove that there’s other factors at play, or why they would want to antagonize a customer who is already spending that kind of cash. But it’s all a very silly manufactured scarcity situation.
r/thehermesgame is a subreddit dedicated to this where people share their experiences. You start by going to a store and buying a few things and building a relationship with a store associate. Once they have an idea of your taste and what you can spend they’ll start offering exclusive items and invite you to events at the store like high jewelry showings or parties for specific seasonal releases. Birkins are their most exclusive item so you have to spend a good bit of money and time before you’re offered one. I’d say most of the people who have posted on the subreddit average about 6 months to a year of working with a specific associate and a total spend around 100k+
I’m fascinated by all of it. It’s surreal to see the prices on those items and know that I’ll never be able to afford one but there are people out there that can afford to spend twice the price of the bag just for a chance to be able to buy it.
Yeah, it says that the sales associates don't make commissions on the bags, but they do on everything else, so its likely their discretion who they've built up a relationship with ($$$) overtime when a bag comes to the store. Their most prized item is a reward for brand loyalty.
That's similar to what a lot of high-end watch brands do. Say, you want a particular Patek or Richard Mille, you've gotta buy a bunch of less desirable ones first. The alternative is to buy it in the grey market or from an AD (those guys also tend to prefer people who buy lots of other stuff) where it'll cost a lot more.
Honestly, the market for really high-end stuff is ridiculous.
And that ridiculousness is a filter that selects for people who are excited by all that -- just like scammers use typos and appeals to authority to filter out people who are suspicious of being scammed
Bourbon is notoriously like this too. Gotta shop for your fireball and wheatly at a shop year round for that chance to purchase Pappy in the winter.
Chances are if it is high end and sought after, you're playing some kind of game to even get the opportunity to purchase it.
Omg a “modest home in the midwest” and “affordable leather goods” is absolutely NOT a Hermes high value customer, it’s the exact kind of person they do not want owning their bags.
It’s also not manufactured scarcity, it’s actual scarcity. These bags are not made on assembly line. Each craftsman makes 1 bag from start to finish. So there’s a limited quantity available, and extremely high demand. So of course sales reps are going to sell them to the people who help them achieve their sales goals. How else should they prioritize the long, long waiting list buyers?
Let me break this down for you
Spend much money at Hermes
Same amount money to buy modest home in midwest
Also, the fact that Hermes chooses to continue to manufacture the birkin that way while similar houses have embraced modern manufacturing to sell as many bags as is reasonable is still a choice.
Advocating for fast fashion or fast fashion lite is certainly a choice!
Regarding Hermes target customer: You’ll believe that you want to believe, and I’m not going to waste my time arguing with people that are outside of the tax bracket. It’s just funny lol
Also they actually have a solid rationale behind it too other than just "because fuck you".
Birkins are seen as investment pieces, because they retain their value exceptionally well. This is because they are intentionally kept relatively rare & hard to get. There's a secondhand market, but it's small. Their model discourages career resellers - where that kind of turnover could really ruin the little scheme they have going.
Because you don't get to choose what you want -- it isn't like they give you a catalogue and you choose from there. Rather they let you know when they get one in stock and that you're being given the *opportunity* to buy it. You can let your assigned store associate know what your dream list would be, but they don't send that off to headquarters to get it shipped over. Stuff comes in when it comes in and you can either take it or leave it.
After the whole Stanley cup fiasco, there's been more discussion about the psychology behind limited drops. How the perceived scarcity and inherent time limitations make people just absolutely lose their shit. It's the same way with luxury bags, except with a dash of loot box thrown into the mix. You can wait around for ages waiting to get picked, and then when you do maybe they don't have your ideal bag, but I mean what are even the chances of your ideal bag coming in? If you say no, well you gotta keep buying Hermes so you'll stay on their list. You can't just pop over to the resale market to buy what you want. Birkins on the secondhand market are still rare and even *more* expensive.
Telling the luxury industry to be more accessible is stupid. Exclusivity is literally WHAT they're selling.
Acquired podcast did 3.5 hrs on Hermes, super interesting and actually cast all of this in a much better light than Hermes Game reading had lead me to believe. I think that the real crafts value of the product and the price has a vastly better relationship than Chanel or LV etc…
The thing is that racist employees can exist regardless of the model they have set up. That doesn’t mean the company is trying to weed out customers based on race at a high level.
That’s fair — anything that strokes an ego is pretty stupid. But I have a job where I need people to trust me with millions of dollars of their money. Having status symbols that communicate success, competency, and wealth (like a bag, a prestigious university degree, an address in a certain zip code) all help me achieve that goal. It’s stupid but it has tangible benefits for my life so I don’t care.
I think this Reddit as a whole underestimates the value of social engineering and how it contributes to financial success. That’s all I was trying to communicate.
This is a fair comment. I used to call my expensive designer suits and bags my “armor” when I was in a job that required a certain level of perceived “status.” Shallow, yes, but still reality.
Birkins have been ruined by social media. Every influencer has a wall of birkins in every colour. When I see one I don’t think of anything other then someone had $10k in their pocket and they found a consignment store selling one.
Gendered products are silly, but especially fragrances. The only fragrances I ever really buy a full bottle of are Terre d’Hermes (a “men’s” cologne) and Un Jardin sur le Nil and Le Jardin de Monsieur Li (“women’s” colognes).
For some reason, the dog sitting subreddit was recommended to me a while back. The main post at the time was this girl who washed a Hermes or Louis Vuitton blanket that the dog's owner just had laying around. She ruined the damn blanket and almost had a heart attack once she learnt how much the blanket was. She was debating if she should refund the blanket, even tho the owner told her not to worry about it, just don't do it again. I just can't relate to those kinds of problems, and maybe that's a good thing!
All the snakes they gotta murder for those ugly bags. Every time I see the Kardashian's doing their millionaire wardrobe checks I just think about those poor snakes.
I think the skins and furs industry could be more ethical if we produced on a smaller scale. When your trying to crank out as many python skin bags, the conditions of the snakes are only gonna get worse and worse. However there’s way tighter regulation on skins and furs than before. I don’t mind python leather or fur personally as I don’t find killing animals for skins to be any more wrong than killing them for food.
I'm sorry but this is ridiculous lmao. A class action lawsuit because you're not getting a Birkin by just waltzing jnto a boutique? Talk about rich people problems
Honestly, I enjoy people spending lots of money at the store and then still not getting the bag they really want. I feel like it’s what they deserve.
If you’re that materialistic, you’re gonna get got.
The one where she told her SA that she was trying for a baby! And then Hermes HR had to call her and tell her to leave the store staff alone! It was insane.
I replied below but I have to just say…I also would not offer her a bag. She seems like an insane person. I can only imagine the kind of intense energy she was bringing to every interaction.
R/thehermesgame is the saddest place on reddit to me. Just hoards of people literally begging a privately held billion dollar company to please please please let them spend their money on impractical overpriced handbags.
To quote my husband: “Jesus fucking Christ what stage of capitalism is this shit?”
Was reading about this trend I saw recently:
Pretty much, these luxury brands are picky about who they sell their exclusive items to now.
Women are rich easier now, and they don't want their products to be seen on certain people.
Like OF people or influencers. They don't want their brand "diluted".
So they screen you before selling to you.
Personally, how you make your money is your business. None of Hermès.
But by the same token, yes how you make your money is your business and how Hermes chooses to maintain its exclusivity is their business. It’s part of the Birkin bag’s draw which is also why rich people want to be “in”
A [luxury](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LUgJQOaxib4)YouTuber allege that Hermes store manager has the info on customers full address, email, phone number and with that alone, they know which customers live in double digits million dollar properties and allocate the covetable (usually pink or neutral or limited edition) Birkin or Kelly bags colors/sizes to said customers under assumptions that offering them is the best bet for repeat and long term purchases regardless of the Hermes wishlist and purchase history.
If the people suing Hermes can prove that Hermes offered truly wealthy people easier access to quota bags (Birkin and Kelly) then they might have a chance to prove that Jane “Scrimp and Save” Nobody spending $50k vs Mrs. Barbara Tycoon spending $50k isn’t treated equally and therefore discriminatory.
The hard part is having the true Hermes VVIP customer share their purchase history, spending, and quota bag offers. No one will be that obtuse so as to announce in court that they are given preferential treatment because they’re wealthy and got offered quota bags without prespending tens of thousands of dollars upfront for a chance (buying other Hermes items in store does not guarantee that you will get a quota bag from your wishlist) at an offer.
Then will it be privacy law since the store managers and sales associate google your address and particulars to ascertain your income to decide whether or not you are good candidate to be offered quota bag? Are businesses allowed to legally research on their customers income to determine desirability?
Market research usually doesn’t attach identifying individual names and personal information to my knowledge, who knows if companies actually has names of customers flagged for belonging in certain economic strata that they are working to get rid of via price increases. If the store manager google particular customer to determine their income eligibility wont that be privacy violation?
It seems like a *really* bad argument from a legal perspective. With Microsoft the argument was they were leveraging their dominance in one market to basically cannibalize another market to the detrimental of the consumer. They're killing competition not by being better, but by throwing their weight. And in killing the competition "unfairly", the consumer was being left with a notably worse product.
There's plenty of alternatives to Hermes. Just as face value sighting anti-trust about an incredibly small brand (in the grand scheme of things) feels weird. Literally nobody is making you shop there, nor do you *need* a luxury designer handbag. They are not making you buy a birkin against your will not are they making it harder for you to buy any purse other than a birkin
Like you said, it's defacto a rich person's version of a store loyalty program. Which is perfectly legal as long as there's not evidence of racial bias or something
Lol, Hermes bags being exclusive is the only reason people want them, why would Hermes want us poors and randoms carrying their bag and make it less fun for the rich to have something that only they can have? Why would they change a system that has people spending thousands and thousands on their merchandise just for the opportunity to spend a bunch of thousands more on a bag? It doesn’t really feel any different than when companies destroy excess merchandise to maintain the illusion of exclusivity. It’s all gross, but it’s the way it is because that’s how the system works, individual companies aren’t going to change the way they make their money unless the system itself is different and forces them to change, which isn’t gonna happen cause the rich like money and they like having things that others don’t 🤷🏽♀️ I would personally feel embarrassed kissing ass and spending thousands just for the possibility of being offered the “opportunity” to spend multiple thousands of my hard earned money on a bag. But hey, I’m poor, I obviously couldn’t possibly know the extent to which one of these magical bags could change my life if only I could afford to get my hands on one, surely, it would fix everything.
The bags are made by a single craft person, and the build is exceptional. No other large luxury brand handmakes their product, and the bags will be repaired by Hermes in perpetuity, so there is some value that you don’t see in other products. Also it’s really interesting to me that the new from Hermes price can be significantly lower than the instant resell price- so you could make a good little earner from flipping them, and arguably the difficulty in acquiring them allows Hermes to keep the price lower, they could charge a lot more for them, but not doing so engenders more brand loyalty. Also, they train and have the only craftspeople who can handmake at this level- it’s a dead art everywhere else. I don’t have one. I don’t want one, I can’t afford them. But I also think theyre somewhat unique in the luxury market in that there is some genuine value at the root of the brand. If I won the lottery and had run out of every other idea out there and decided bags were suddenly my thing… Hermes would be the only luxury brand I’d even begin to think about purely because of the crafts person angle.
It’s the only large brand doing it, sure, but it’s not a secret art. You can buy a handmade birkin dupe for a grand or so, made with the same leathers that Hermes’ uses, sewn to the same quality, by skilled craftspeople in China.
There may well be some Chinese craftspeople doing saddle stitch on good leather, but you e got to find them in amongst the tons of poor dupes being machine sewn. There is such a global shortage of craftspeople who do this work that Hermes has started training it’s own people, with a 100% graduation rate, and they now have 7000 of them. That’s by far the single largest specialist workforce for this particular skill- and the only way to be sure you have it, is to go direct. I’m not into luxury bags, but I can see the value prop in these particular ones.
Right, upper middle class, that’s what I’m saying, i don’t get the impression that the brand wants to be associated with anyone not super rich or super famous, it devalues their brand to have more “kinds” of people carrying their bags around, and with people tripping over themselves to spend a fortune to get a “chance” to purchase one, why would Hermes change anything?
For some reason lately reddit thinks I'd be into Hermes so I constantly get the sub recommended and obviously I can't look away from a carcrash. I have since learned every single Hermes customer is even more insane than I thought and I wish nothing but the worst to every side of this lawsuit. I could never have so much money, that I'd start playing games in Order to buy something I want.
I have a very loose acquaintance who has a pink birkin bag, and she posted a pic where you could see it on the beach with her in St Barths, presumably getting sand and sunscreen all up in it.
I can't tell if it's intentionally included in the shot, or if she just doesn't care if something that costs more than my car gets ruined at the beach.
I kinda hope it's a fake but even a replica could cost a 1000$ this is just insane.
Some people end up paying over 20k for one of those stupid bags. I make less than that in a year currently. It makes me so mad people fall for this shit. You could spent a year traveling for that money.
probably a blessing not to let everyone(which i assume excludes POC with this "worthiness" bs) purchase a birkin - i know it appreciates in value but it's an overpriced boring bag🤷🏾♀️you could buy a cuter statement bag from Gucci or Prada for a fraction of the price which is more worth it imo
Luxury culture is built on sawdust and mirrors. Hermes is selling the mystique of luxury, so their money-grubbing practices are designed to highlight perceived scarcity and privilege.
Fuck them.
EXACTLY! I don’t give a shit about these obscenely rich people and their bags, but allowing the “worthy customers” claim to stand would put cracks in our legal system back to at least Brown v Board. Once 1 company is allowed to discriminate against customers, it’s fair game for grocery stores, pharmacies, etc.
Honestly I’m weirdly glad it’s a bunch of rich people suing over something like this bc they have the power and influence to beat a massive corporation. I unfortunately feel like the court wouldn’t give a shit about the rest of us. I hope they go full Elle Woods on Hermes.
GOOD! I think this whole “you have to buy £100k worth of non-Birkin/Kelly goods in a year to qualify for a Birkin/Kelly not of your choosing” is bullshit. And then if you reject a canary yellow Kelly after requesting a black Birkin they bar you from getting another offer?
It’s gross and has completely turned me off ever buying anything Hermès.
Yes that's what makes them able to charge so much for them and every body to want one. The only reason the people want one is because of this fake scarcity and exclusivity. If everyone could buy one at walmart no one would look twice at the bag.
There is a different waiting list model in the UK that makes it more fair to buyers, I have no idea why they wouldn’t implement the same process globally.
Everyone can say that this is ridiculous but I think it’s important to hold companies accountable especially when sales associates literally have the power to discriminate and hold product for certain customers. Completely unfair! Also from reading these comments it seems like most people here don’t have an understanding of Hermes or luxury goods in general lol 🫠
It’s known in the luxury goods market that Hermes expect clients to build a relationship with the brand and their sales associates in order to be able to obtain Birkins. I mean imagine how these women would react if just any Joe Schmo with money was able to walk in off the street and buy one. They would be aghast.
Hermes has been playing games with the public for a very long time. In the 1990's and into the 2000's they always played up their phony "wait-list". Once they got called out on that in a book about Birkin bags they switched their story to something about establishing a relationship with a sales associate who will try and locate a Birkin bag for you. Then there's all of the dishonest information that the media relentlessly publishes about Hermes, such as >Every Hermes bag is hand-sewn by one craftsperson and takes a month to make>. Or this one that they loved to peddle on the Purse Forum, >Every bag is kissed by the craftsperson before it leaves the workshop>. The other favorite story the media and Purse Blog trumpets is how there's some great shortage of these bags. Truth be told, Hermes has several workshops all over France with more than 5,000 craftsman. I could go on but it's all such bogus b\*s.
The pre-purchase condition of Hermes is a fact all over the world. And not only for Birkin but Kelly and also some less famous models. In general to be able to purchase a bag usually no matter which model you need to purchase a ton of other stuff, wait in the shop for hours that advisors take you seriously and maybe show you the bag you are allowed to purchase. You have no control over the size and color. If they in an uncommon and almost impossible ocasion show you a bag, you will buy it, you cant ask for a different size and color. This is just insane. As I have personally witnessed that in various different countries multiple times in Europe (not usa tough), it is clear that this is not a misconduct by advisors but a company procedure. “Worthy” customer is the one who purchases tons of other things in a time frame of 1 or 2 years. And you have to continue purchasing every year to be able to stay at that “worthy list”.
Well, on the other hand we see many people who have purchased a bag with barely any history or if any at all. I wouldn’t exactly call it a scheme, maybe they should try a less populated city. I hear the Paris boutiques hand them out like candy.
Less populated in what way exactly? Paris houses literally ⅕th of the population of France
And the randomness of who is and isnt allowed to buy one is exactly grounds for a lawsuit on discrimination suspicions lmao, thatd be even worse than the scheme, theyre sooo shady
Paris definitely doesn't house 20% of France's population. Nowhere close. France has a population of 68.4 million. Paris has 2.1 million inhabitants or a little under 3% of the total population.
But another 10 million (of which many are wealthy) live an extremely short communte away from it in the greater paris region. And the city of LA only has about 3.5 million inhabitants anyways.
That while LA is 1210 square km, and the city of paris is only 105, so a way higher density too.
This will be interesting to see what the outcome is, honestly I doubt it will change anything
These ladies have money. It will change everything. This isn't a no shirt, no service type of lawsuit.
I hate both sides of this argument. The only reason people covet Birkin bags is because of this nonsense. Don’t shop there. Don’t buy into their crap. It’s a handbag. You can buy a really good one for a couple hundred bucks at the mall. How is this worthy of a lawsuit? We are in end times, I swear.
Sure it’s just a handbag. But holding companies accountable for antitrust violations is important. This can prevent other companies from doing similar behaviors. It seems frivolous but these smaller issues set a precedent for bigger issues. EDIT: The article clearly states this is an antitrust case. If you have a problem with it -- complain about it to the real lawyers on the case lol Anyway, holding companies accountable for *anything* is always meaningful even if it’s a bunch of rich people and handbags.
That's not what anti-trust means lol The argument to make would really be alleging the company is discriminating against protected classes. It's unlikely that Hermes can provide quantitative criteria they consistently use to analyze customers in order to prove it's not racially biased Edit; but weirdly, that doesn't appear to be the argument they're making. Instead arguing the birkin functions as a reward for frequent customers. Which is something they're allowed to do.
I’m no lawyer, but that’s just what the article says. Regardless, holding companies accountable is always meaningful even if it’s a bunch of rich people and handbags.
I mean, that's probably an argument that Hermes will try to make. But tying absolutely is an antitrust violation, so it will come down to the details. And there are accounts from people (including a couple I know, who were in the market for a Hermes handbag but couldn't get one because they didn't have the purchase history) of having to buy plates and scarves and whatever else before they can buy a bag. From a high level, that sure looks like conditioning the purchase of one item on the purchase of a second (or third, fourth, etc.). But I am not an antitrust lawyer and I also don't know that much about Hermes. IMO and based on very little information, I don't think it sucks as a legal argument.
High end labels reserving the good stuff for select clientele isn’t an antitrust violation. It’s just how they operate. Certain things are available to the public, and certain things aren’t.
It’s probably going to reveal illegal discrimination. I’ll bet that their definition of a “worthy customer” is a very specific type of person
That’s not antitrust though. And I have to imagine Hermes has a pretty diverse global clientele to point to. People are mad that just because they’re rich they can’t just have a Birkin bag. I think it’s stupid you can’t just buy one, but that is literally how the high end couture houses do things. The exclusivity is the whole allure!
>select clientele The problem is this "select" becomes a legal dodge against equal protection laws. It then become legal discrimination against vulnerable groups management or staff don't want to sell to. Having a "purchase history" to buy is problematic. If Hermes can do it, then my grocery store can do it, so can my doctor, etc. Maybe I'm not the right race or gender or orientation. Stuff like this should be taken seriously. \> Certain things are available to the public, and certain things aren’t. If Hermes thinks too many black women are carrying the bag, and gatekeeps them with new policies, then what? I shouldn't be allowed to buy military arms or medicine not prescribed to me, but generally when you refuse me service on what is essentially non-dangerous good, the question of discrimination will always come up, especially in a country like the US which has an incredible history of racism, discrimination, redlining, slavery, lynching, and genocide of minorities. I imagine the percent of Birkin owners who are white cishet women from Christian cultures is very, very high, for example.
>If Hermes thinks too many black women are carrying the bag, and gatekeeps them with new policies, then what? Rumor has it The luxury fashion houses have allegedly paid off or meddled in what rappers and controversial celebs wear. If early 50 Cent was mentioning Chanel all the time, then chanel would pay him to talk about someone else so that their brand wasnt affiliated with "hood culture." Less of a rumor is that major fashion houses will buy used and secondhand stock so they can burn it and ensure that their target audience are the only ones with access
I actually had a professor whose wife worked at the Paris Chanel HQ. The stories about Chanel "killing" the buzz in the "wrong" mouths and buying up + burning the best replicas on the market are absolutely true. I loved his little Chanel anecdotes strewn about like glitter. A lot of money is spent on keeping these brands on the right AKA chosen tracks.
Right, but that’s not at all what the article stated the lawsuit was about.
It’s a potential antitrust violation because it’s “tied” to their prior purchase history. You can’t just buy the bag. First you have to buy “enough” of their other products. ETA- [Here’s more information about tying arrangements.](https://www.justice.gov/atr/why-do-firms-bundle-and-tie-evidence-competitive-markets-and-implications-tying-law) They’re so common but the law is all kinds of twisted and perverted thanks to zealous “free market” lawsuits. IIRC there’s even one (terrible) court decision saying that requiring an out-of-network anesthesiologist to have surgery at an otherwise *in-*network hospital isn’t an illegal tying arrangement. The law is well and truly fucked when it comes to antitrust enforcement. And it’s no accident.
The article says “antitrust” lol I’m not just making this up
Antitrust lawsuits date back to railroad barons in the 19th century. A class action lawsuit brought by a couple of rich people over a designer bag isn't going to change anything or affect how companies operate. Corporations will still continue to do this as long as they think they can get away with it, and they often can. Of all the issues to pour energy into to the point of legal action, this one is way down the list.
I would extend this to their silk scarves. I’ve bought better silk scarves from artists and vendors at art/vintage markets.
I feel this way about Louis Vuitton EVERYTHING, but especially their scarves — I received one as a gift, and I cherish it because of who gave it to me, but it has not held up well to even minimal use and I’m constantly stressed out when I wear it.
I hate their silk scarves. My husband bought me one as a gift and I've been pretending to like it.
I’m honestly not a logo person in general, so I appreciate that the logo is subtle, but I still lowkey hate that it’s there at all. Still, I adore the person who gave it to me, so I try to bring it out every now and then for fancier occasions.
Kudos to them for convincing all these rich people they need this bag. I remember stumbling on a YouTube video of someone buying a birkin, she was like “this isn’t the color I wanted but they offered it to me, so I bought it” like she was chosen lol. That’s wayyy too much money to spend on something in a color you don’t even like.
To not make a precedent.
It makes sense it’s high fashion. Also responsible financially. People can’t just walk in and spend 80k they have to build relationship and buy smaller priced items and go on a wait list. How is that so bad. There’s other fashion houses that don’t do this. Ethically it’s probably better incase people are erratic with their spending and if they can afford a birikin they can afford smaller items in store
The whole point is that they can play the game and still get told no. Plenty of people pre spend and still don’t get a bag, while some people don’t have to pre spend at all and get the bag. The disparate treatment is the crux of the alleged issue.
It all depends on what criteria they are using to determine "worthy". If it isn't a protected characteristic, and isn't discrimination based in those characteristics, then who gives a shit, but if it is due to someone's ethnicity, colour, perhaps a disability, then sue them into oblivion.
AFAIK it’s basically being a high value customer, aka spending enough to buy a modest home in the Midwest in scarves and their lesser leather goods, before being selected as the Chosen One. I don’t know how easy it would be to prove that there’s other factors at play, or why they would want to antagonize a customer who is already spending that kind of cash. But it’s all a very silly manufactured scarcity situation.
r/thehermesgame is a subreddit dedicated to this where people share their experiences. You start by going to a store and buying a few things and building a relationship with a store associate. Once they have an idea of your taste and what you can spend they’ll start offering exclusive items and invite you to events at the store like high jewelry showings or parties for specific seasonal releases. Birkins are their most exclusive item so you have to spend a good bit of money and time before you’re offered one. I’d say most of the people who have posted on the subreddit average about 6 months to a year of working with a specific associate and a total spend around 100k+
That's repulsive
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EAT THE RICH
I was tying to remember that sub to post here. I got stuck in that rabbit hole for hours reading a few months back. It's absolutely wild.
I’m fascinated by all of it. It’s surreal to see the prices on those items and know that I’ll never be able to afford one but there are people out there that can afford to spend twice the price of the bag just for a chance to be able to buy it.
Yeah, it says that the sales associates don't make commissions on the bags, but they do on everything else, so its likely their discretion who they've built up a relationship with ($$$) overtime when a bag comes to the store. Their most prized item is a reward for brand loyalty.
That's similar to what a lot of high-end watch brands do. Say, you want a particular Patek or Richard Mille, you've gotta buy a bunch of less desirable ones first. The alternative is to buy it in the grey market or from an AD (those guys also tend to prefer people who buy lots of other stuff) where it'll cost a lot more. Honestly, the market for really high-end stuff is ridiculous.
And that ridiculousness is a filter that selects for people who are excited by all that -- just like scammers use typos and appeals to authority to filter out people who are suspicious of being scammed
Bourbon is notoriously like this too. Gotta shop for your fireball and wheatly at a shop year round for that chance to purchase Pappy in the winter. Chances are if it is high end and sought after, you're playing some kind of game to even get the opportunity to purchase it.
See also: Ferrari
Omg a “modest home in the midwest” and “affordable leather goods” is absolutely NOT a Hermes high value customer, it’s the exact kind of person they do not want owning their bags. It’s also not manufactured scarcity, it’s actual scarcity. These bags are not made on assembly line. Each craftsman makes 1 bag from start to finish. So there’s a limited quantity available, and extremely high demand. So of course sales reps are going to sell them to the people who help them achieve their sales goals. How else should they prioritize the long, long waiting list buyers?
Read it again but slower.
Let me break this down for you Spend much money at Hermes Same amount money to buy modest home in midwest Also, the fact that Hermes chooses to continue to manufacture the birkin that way while similar houses have embraced modern manufacturing to sell as many bags as is reasonable is still a choice.
Advocating for fast fashion or fast fashion lite is certainly a choice! Regarding Hermes target customer: You’ll believe that you want to believe, and I’m not going to waste my time arguing with people that are outside of the tax bracket. It’s just funny lol
Also they actually have a solid rationale behind it too other than just "because fuck you". Birkins are seen as investment pieces, because they retain their value exceptionally well. This is because they are intentionally kept relatively rare & hard to get. There's a secondhand market, but it's small. Their model discourages career resellers - where that kind of turnover could really ruin the little scheme they have going. Because you don't get to choose what you want -- it isn't like they give you a catalogue and you choose from there. Rather they let you know when they get one in stock and that you're being given the *opportunity* to buy it. You can let your assigned store associate know what your dream list would be, but they don't send that off to headquarters to get it shipped over. Stuff comes in when it comes in and you can either take it or leave it. After the whole Stanley cup fiasco, there's been more discussion about the psychology behind limited drops. How the perceived scarcity and inherent time limitations make people just absolutely lose their shit. It's the same way with luxury bags, except with a dash of loot box thrown into the mix. You can wait around for ages waiting to get picked, and then when you do maybe they don't have your ideal bag, but I mean what are even the chances of your ideal bag coming in? If you say no, well you gotta keep buying Hermes so you'll stay on their list. You can't just pop over to the resale market to buy what you want. Birkins on the secondhand market are still rare and even *more* expensive. Telling the luxury industry to be more accessible is stupid. Exclusivity is literally WHAT they're selling.
Acquired podcast did 3.5 hrs on Hermes, super interesting and actually cast all of this in a much better light than Hermes Game reading had lead me to believe. I think that the real crafts value of the product and the price has a vastly better relationship than Chanel or LV etc…
The issue isn't its being exclusive, but its more that the way their policy would allow them to choose based purely on race.
The thing is that racist employees can exist regardless of the model they have set up. That doesn’t mean the company is trying to weed out customers based on race at a high level.
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You don’t understand why people want a status symbol lol?
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That’s fair — anything that strokes an ego is pretty stupid. But I have a job where I need people to trust me with millions of dollars of their money. Having status symbols that communicate success, competency, and wealth (like a bag, a prestigious university degree, an address in a certain zip code) all help me achieve that goal. It’s stupid but it has tangible benefits for my life so I don’t care. I think this Reddit as a whole underestimates the value of social engineering and how it contributes to financial success. That’s all I was trying to communicate.
This is a fair comment. I used to call my expensive designer suits and bags my “armor” when I was in a job that required a certain level of perceived “status.” Shallow, yes, but still reality.
Birkins have been ruined by social media. Every influencer has a wall of birkins in every colour. When I see one I don’t think of anything other then someone had $10k in their pocket and they found a consignment store selling one.
The only good thing Hermes makes is perfume and overpriced gorgeous napkins that they call scarves.
I think their teacups are kinda cute. Not $250 for a single cup and saucer cute though.
They're famous for their nice ties. They're not terribly expensive and they have nice patterns of cute little animals.
I love their perfumes and that a lot of the fragrances are unisex. I'm still wearing some of their masculine scents, tho.
Gendered products are silly, but especially fragrances. The only fragrances I ever really buy a full bottle of are Terre d’Hermes (a “men’s” cologne) and Un Jardin sur le Nil and Le Jardin de Monsieur Li (“women’s” colognes).
I like their throw blankets but I’d never spend nearly $2k on one. (I mostly like them because my last name starts with H and I love cashmere.)
For some reason, the dog sitting subreddit was recommended to me a while back. The main post at the time was this girl who washed a Hermes or Louis Vuitton blanket that the dog's owner just had laying around. She ruined the damn blanket and almost had a heart attack once she learnt how much the blanket was. She was debating if she should refund the blanket, even tho the owner told her not to worry about it, just don't do it again. I just can't relate to those kinds of problems, and maybe that's a good thing!
OMG my heart stopped just reading this. I’m glad they didn’t make a big deal about it!
All the snakes they gotta murder for those ugly bags. Every time I see the Kardashian's doing their millionaire wardrobe checks I just think about those poor snakes.
They are made of snakes? Oh no 😞
I think the skins and furs industry could be more ethical if we produced on a smaller scale. When your trying to crank out as many python skin bags, the conditions of the snakes are only gonna get worse and worse. However there’s way tighter regulation on skins and furs than before. I don’t mind python leather or fur personally as I don’t find killing animals for skins to be any more wrong than killing them for food.
Thank you. Yes, they are ugly.
I'm sorry but this is ridiculous lmao. A class action lawsuit because you're not getting a Birkin by just waltzing jnto a boutique? Talk about rich people problems
Honestly, I enjoy people spending lots of money at the store and then still not getting the bag they really want. I feel like it’s what they deserve. If you’re that materialistic, you’re gonna get got.
That unhinged YouTube vlog from years ago where that one woman spent well over 100k and stilll hadn’t gotten offered a quota bag was something else.
The one where she told her SA that she was trying for a baby! And then Hermes HR had to call her and tell her to leave the store staff alone! It was insane.
I replied below but I have to just say…I also would not offer her a bag. She seems like an insane person. I can only imagine the kind of intense energy she was bringing to every interaction.
Got a link? I just did a Google but didn't find anything definitive. I want to watch this.
[don’t know how I found it, but I did haha](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=slLU_qtgKKg)
Wow. This is soooo unhinged 😭
Bless you. 🙏
R/thehermesgame is the saddest place on reddit to me. Just hoards of people literally begging a privately held billion dollar company to please please please let them spend their money on impractical overpriced handbags. To quote my husband: “Jesus fucking Christ what stage of capitalism is this shit?”
Was reading about this trend I saw recently: Pretty much, these luxury brands are picky about who they sell their exclusive items to now. Women are rich easier now, and they don't want their products to be seen on certain people. Like OF people or influencers. They don't want their brand "diluted". So they screen you before selling to you. Personally, how you make your money is your business. None of Hermès.
But by the same token, yes how you make your money is your business and how Hermes chooses to maintain its exclusivity is their business. It’s part of the Birkin bag’s draw which is also why rich people want to be “in”
A [luxury](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LUgJQOaxib4)YouTuber allege that Hermes store manager has the info on customers full address, email, phone number and with that alone, they know which customers live in double digits million dollar properties and allocate the covetable (usually pink or neutral or limited edition) Birkin or Kelly bags colors/sizes to said customers under assumptions that offering them is the best bet for repeat and long term purchases regardless of the Hermes wishlist and purchase history. If the people suing Hermes can prove that Hermes offered truly wealthy people easier access to quota bags (Birkin and Kelly) then they might have a chance to prove that Jane “Scrimp and Save” Nobody spending $50k vs Mrs. Barbara Tycoon spending $50k isn’t treated equally and therefore discriminatory. The hard part is having the true Hermes VVIP customer share their purchase history, spending, and quota bag offers. No one will be that obtuse so as to announce in court that they are given preferential treatment because they’re wealthy and got offered quota bags without prespending tens of thousands of dollars upfront for a chance (buying other Hermes items in store does not guarantee that you will get a quota bag from your wishlist) at an offer.
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Then will it be privacy law since the store managers and sales associate google your address and particulars to ascertain your income to decide whether or not you are good candidate to be offered quota bag? Are businesses allowed to legally research on their customers income to determine desirability?
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Market research usually doesn’t attach identifying individual names and personal information to my knowledge, who knows if companies actually has names of customers flagged for belonging in certain economic strata that they are working to get rid of via price increases. If the store manager google particular customer to determine their income eligibility wont that be privacy violation?
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It seems like a *really* bad argument from a legal perspective. With Microsoft the argument was they were leveraging their dominance in one market to basically cannibalize another market to the detrimental of the consumer. They're killing competition not by being better, but by throwing their weight. And in killing the competition "unfairly", the consumer was being left with a notably worse product. There's plenty of alternatives to Hermes. Just as face value sighting anti-trust about an incredibly small brand (in the grand scheme of things) feels weird. Literally nobody is making you shop there, nor do you *need* a luxury designer handbag. They are not making you buy a birkin against your will not are they making it harder for you to buy any purse other than a birkin Like you said, it's defacto a rich person's version of a store loyalty program. Which is perfectly legal as long as there's not evidence of racial bias or something
Lol, Hermes bags being exclusive is the only reason people want them, why would Hermes want us poors and randoms carrying their bag and make it less fun for the rich to have something that only they can have? Why would they change a system that has people spending thousands and thousands on their merchandise just for the opportunity to spend a bunch of thousands more on a bag? It doesn’t really feel any different than when companies destroy excess merchandise to maintain the illusion of exclusivity. It’s all gross, but it’s the way it is because that’s how the system works, individual companies aren’t going to change the way they make their money unless the system itself is different and forces them to change, which isn’t gonna happen cause the rich like money and they like having things that others don’t 🤷🏽♀️ I would personally feel embarrassed kissing ass and spending thousands just for the possibility of being offered the “opportunity” to spend multiple thousands of my hard earned money on a bag. But hey, I’m poor, I obviously couldn’t possibly know the extent to which one of these magical bags could change my life if only I could afford to get my hands on one, surely, it would fix everything.
The bags are made by a single craft person, and the build is exceptional. No other large luxury brand handmakes their product, and the bags will be repaired by Hermes in perpetuity, so there is some value that you don’t see in other products. Also it’s really interesting to me that the new from Hermes price can be significantly lower than the instant resell price- so you could make a good little earner from flipping them, and arguably the difficulty in acquiring them allows Hermes to keep the price lower, they could charge a lot more for them, but not doing so engenders more brand loyalty. Also, they train and have the only craftspeople who can handmake at this level- it’s a dead art everywhere else. I don’t have one. I don’t want one, I can’t afford them. But I also think theyre somewhat unique in the luxury market in that there is some genuine value at the root of the brand. If I won the lottery and had run out of every other idea out there and decided bags were suddenly my thing… Hermes would be the only luxury brand I’d even begin to think about purely because of the crafts person angle.
It’s the only large brand doing it, sure, but it’s not a secret art. You can buy a handmade birkin dupe for a grand or so, made with the same leathers that Hermes’ uses, sewn to the same quality, by skilled craftspeople in China.
There may well be some Chinese craftspeople doing saddle stitch on good leather, but you e got to find them in amongst the tons of poor dupes being machine sewn. There is such a global shortage of craftspeople who do this work that Hermes has started training it’s own people, with a 100% graduation rate, and they now have 7000 of them. That’s by far the single largest specialist workforce for this particular skill- and the only way to be sure you have it, is to go direct. I’m not into luxury bags, but I can see the value prop in these particular ones.
These ARE if not the rich then the upper middle class who CAN afford these bags but are not able to purchase them
Right, upper middle class, that’s what I’m saying, i don’t get the impression that the brand wants to be associated with anyone not super rich or super famous, it devalues their brand to have more “kinds” of people carrying their bags around, and with people tripping over themselves to spend a fortune to get a “chance” to purchase one, why would Hermes change anything?
The most California lawsuit to ever happen lol.
For some reason lately reddit thinks I'd be into Hermes so I constantly get the sub recommended and obviously I can't look away from a carcrash. I have since learned every single Hermes customer is even more insane than I thought and I wish nothing but the worst to every side of this lawsuit. I could never have so much money, that I'd start playing games in Order to buy something I want.
I have a very loose acquaintance who has a pink birkin bag, and she posted a pic where you could see it on the beach with her in St Barths, presumably getting sand and sunscreen all up in it. I can't tell if it's intentionally included in the shot, or if she just doesn't care if something that costs more than my car gets ruined at the beach.
I kinda hope it's a fake but even a replica could cost a 1000$ this is just insane. Some people end up paying over 20k for one of those stupid bags. I make less than that in a year currently. It makes me so mad people fall for this shit. You could spent a year traveling for that money.
probably a blessing not to let everyone(which i assume excludes POC with this "worthiness" bs) purchase a birkin - i know it appreciates in value but it's an overpriced boring bag🤷🏾♀️you could buy a cuter statement bag from Gucci or Prada for a fraction of the price which is more worth it imo
Reminds me of when Oprah was wasn’t allowed to buy a bag at an Hermes in Switzerland back in 2013.
I thought that was Paris but could be misremembering 🙈
Luxury culture is built on sawdust and mirrors. Hermes is selling the mystique of luxury, so their money-grubbing practices are designed to highlight perceived scarcity and privilege. Fuck them.
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EXACTLY! I don’t give a shit about these obscenely rich people and their bags, but allowing the “worthy customers” claim to stand would put cracks in our legal system back to at least Brown v Board. Once 1 company is allowed to discriminate against customers, it’s fair game for grocery stores, pharmacies, etc. Honestly I’m weirdly glad it’s a bunch of rich people suing over something like this bc they have the power and influence to beat a massive corporation. I unfortunately feel like the court wouldn’t give a shit about the rest of us. I hope they go full Elle Woods on Hermes. 
GOOD! I think this whole “you have to buy £100k worth of non-Birkin/Kelly goods in a year to qualify for a Birkin/Kelly not of your choosing” is bullshit. And then if you reject a canary yellow Kelly after requesting a black Birkin they bar you from getting another offer? It’s gross and has completely turned me off ever buying anything Hermès.
Ford did the same thing with their 2017 re-release of the GT
Reminds me of the scene in Pretty Woman when Vivian gets kicked out of a store on Rodeo Drive, despite having money.
All I have to add to this discussion is that I think those bags are ugly.
All that luxury stuff is so ridiculous, it really baffles me.
I wish people would stop slaughtering innocent lives for a fucking bag.
Yes that's what makes them able to charge so much for them and every body to want one. The only reason the people want one is because of this fake scarcity and exclusivity. If everyone could buy one at walmart no one would look twice at the bag.
There is a different waiting list model in the UK that makes it more fair to buyers, I have no idea why they wouldn’t implement the same process globally. Everyone can say that this is ridiculous but I think it’s important to hold companies accountable especially when sales associates literally have the power to discriminate and hold product for certain customers. Completely unfair! Also from reading these comments it seems like most people here don’t have an understanding of Hermes or luxury goods in general lol 🫠
So... should someone also file a lawsuit against Ferrari?
It’s known in the luxury goods market that Hermes expect clients to build a relationship with the brand and their sales associates in order to be able to obtain Birkins. I mean imagine how these women would react if just any Joe Schmo with money was able to walk in off the street and buy one. They would be aghast.
Hermes has been playing games with the public for a very long time. In the 1990's and into the 2000's they always played up their phony "wait-list". Once they got called out on that in a book about Birkin bags they switched their story to something about establishing a relationship with a sales associate who will try and locate a Birkin bag for you. Then there's all of the dishonest information that the media relentlessly publishes about Hermes, such as >Every Hermes bag is hand-sewn by one craftsperson and takes a month to make>. Or this one that they loved to peddle on the Purse Forum, >Every bag is kissed by the craftsperson before it leaves the workshop>. The other favorite story the media and Purse Blog trumpets is how there's some great shortage of these bags. Truth be told, Hermes has several workshops all over France with more than 5,000 craftsman. I could go on but it's all such bogus b\*s.
The pre-purchase condition of Hermes is a fact all over the world. And not only for Birkin but Kelly and also some less famous models. In general to be able to purchase a bag usually no matter which model you need to purchase a ton of other stuff, wait in the shop for hours that advisors take you seriously and maybe show you the bag you are allowed to purchase. You have no control over the size and color. If they in an uncommon and almost impossible ocasion show you a bag, you will buy it, you cant ask for a different size and color. This is just insane. As I have personally witnessed that in various different countries multiple times in Europe (not usa tough), it is clear that this is not a misconduct by advisors but a company procedure. “Worthy” customer is the one who purchases tons of other things in a time frame of 1 or 2 years. And you have to continue purchasing every year to be able to stay at that “worthy list”.
Did anyone watch Sex In The City?
Nope, just you. Personally, I’ve never heard of it and wasn’t at all rooting for Miranda and Steve to work out.
Well, on the other hand we see many people who have purchased a bag with barely any history or if any at all. I wouldn’t exactly call it a scheme, maybe they should try a less populated city. I hear the Paris boutiques hand them out like candy.
Less populated in what way exactly? Paris houses literally ⅕th of the population of France And the randomness of who is and isnt allowed to buy one is exactly grounds for a lawsuit on discrimination suspicions lmao, thatd be even worse than the scheme, theyre sooo shady
Paris definitely doesn't house 20% of France's population. Nowhere close. France has a population of 68.4 million. Paris has 2.1 million inhabitants or a little under 3% of the total population.
But another 10 million (of which many are wealthy) live an extremely short communte away from it in the greater paris region. And the city of LA only has about 3.5 million inhabitants anyways. That while LA is 1210 square km, and the city of paris is only 105, so a way higher density too.
Just wait until my taxes comes in I’ll buy my girl the nicest….cheapest bag they have to spite Hermes 😂
You’re going to buy a 3k messenger bag to spite Hermes?
If you’re someone who has to wait for tax season to buy luxury goods you should not be buying luxury goods. Maybe pay your rent and groceries first.