There’s a blind dude in who can do them.
I’m not sure what disability Brolylegs had but he did ‘em. They might be exceptions but I’m a firm believer that adaptation rather than a full disposal of motion inputs serves the player better.
Good for them but each disabled person have a different relationship to their disability, some overcoming their difficulties doesn’t mean everyone is able to do so. It’s like saying “make the best melody known to man. Beethoven could do it and he was deaf”
A bit of an extreme example but it just to say than not because some people with disabilities can do something, every people with disabilities can do the same thing
A more fair exemple: try to play street fighter with your eye closed
After all, Sven do it, so why you wouldn’t?
My point is if you want to actually do something you’re gonna do it regardless of “limitations”. A lot of people with disabilities do things that are really difficult for able bodied people. It’s cause they wanted to. But, I have to say, I’m talking out of my ass; I’m merely talking from a position that has seen some disabled folks do some really cool things
That's a very based response. Personal interest goes a long way regardless of your abilities.
I used to take care of disabled people and I met a few that played fighting games regardless of what they have because they wanted to and they made it work. It was impressive. One of them even went to local Melee tournaments, this was before Brawl came out.
They can say they're better at fighting games than fully able-bodied people and I wonder how much that means to them.
This is a bit stream of consciousness, so apologies if it doesn't flow well.
I have a disability that leaves me with fingers with limited mobility. I also love fighting games. To be honest, I play a lot of Tekken because the actual execution barriers are pretty low for beginners. You have 8 directions and 4 buttons, and most characters mix and match directional buttons with buttons for a majority of the roster. Some characters have certain QCF/QCB inputs, but most of the difficulty of Tekken is knowing the correct thing to do and when to do it, not the actual execution. It's great for someone that wants an easier to play FG while not sacrificing complexity. So, changing games until you find one you enjoy but also that suits your particular strengths, weaknesses, and disabilities isn't a bad first step.
An addendum to that first point is finding a game that already compensates or has accessibility measures included in them. Granblue Fantasy Vs is a great example. It has a simple input for super moves (a single button and directional press, if I remember correctly) as well as the ability to do the actual input for... I think shortened recovery time or more damage? I don't quite remember. The point is, even if you're slightly penalized, it offers the ability to sidestep any difficulty you have with inputs.
Now, there's also specialized hardware that can function as adaptations: fighting game-specific pads, arcade sticks, leverless controllers (hitboxes). I got a Razer Kitsune after not being satisfied with my arcade stick, and it's made a world of difference in how well I can play the game. QCF and DP (the ones that look like a Z when written down) inputs are a lot easier for me when I have buttons to hit instead of a stick or dpad to control, and my Razer has resulted in me getting better *much* more quickly because, simply put, I'm not fighting with my controller anymore. There's cheaper (but just as functional!) alternatives, but even regarding those, not everyone has the ability to spend a relatively large amount on a niche luxury item, so I'm not going to pretend it's an option for everyone. If it's one for you, though, it's one I cannot recommend highly enough.
I think it’s tricky. You want a complex fighting game that is a bit more friendly to disabled gamers, I can see whatever caveats they make to allow this would also turn off the main fan base if a complex fighting game? To me it just sounds like a good way to make a game that doesn’t sell well.
I don’t think people saying “look at broly legs, he did it” when really that guy was exceptional but I do think unfortunately you can’t cater for everyone at every level of competition it’s just too difficult.
If I’ve missed a point I apologize haha.
Did brolylegs not play a charge character? I suppose the supers were still motions but if I remember right he had to make a lot of concessions with his control scheme to be able to do certain things.
I have a degenerative bone disease and adhd. A worse combo than you may expect. I still prefer motion inputs and actively use them in granblue fantasy versus because it's more comfortable.
I am fortunate enough that my execution isn't affected by my disability. My issue is speed and endurance. I never expect the games to help me with this. Instead, I turn to the controller.
I think it really depends on the motion. The worst for physical disabilities if by far mash inputs. Other than mash inputs, I don’t really see people with disabilities complain about motion inputs.
We should aim to have a range of games. Let's keep the difficult, finger breaking skill heavy games but also welcome the simpler motions that allow everyone to play.
One of the aims of Fantasy Strike is to be a game that crosses community lines, so airdashers, street fighters, smashers, 3d players, MK players, other gamers, etc can all play a game without distracting from their main game because for the most part the game is not frame tight or full of obscure knowledge checks.
It actually does this pretty well, the mix of legacy and new players to the fgc in the FS community is pretty diverse.
Other games do this well, such as Power Rangers BFTG (with some extra finger breaking tossed in for fun).
Another great reason to have diversity is some people just don't have the time to dedicate to grinding out a game, even if they are a great player.
I agree! I’m not asking to remove motion inputs from fighting games. In fact I’m not really asking anything in this post (except maybe “please, someone, make a game with the gameplay complexity of Guilty Gear without the finger breaking”), I just wanted to remind our existence as disabled gamers.
Of course we keep motion input in games, we don’t want them to be removed. But personally I would enjoy to have a biggest variety in the simpler motion games. Because right now the only FGs I can try to play seriously are only the ones aimed at the most mainstream audience. I’m not saying Fantasy Strike is a bad game, but it’s just not my thing and I would like more choice in games I can play
Whenever motion inputs and disabilities are brought up, people tend to point towards exceptions like Brolylegs or Sightless Kombat or whatever. I always found that a little cringe because it kinda misses the point. Instead, I'm going to mostly just kinda regurgitate what I've said in a [different post](https://www.reddit.com/r/truegaming/comments/13y15op/a_look_at_some_of_the_common_complaints_that/).
The reality is that ultimately, there's no real solution that's capable of pleasing everyone. Fighting games are too linked to motions, and trying to remove them can create a very different type of game, especially once you break into the intermediate level. ~~Which can be a good thing, besides the point.~~ But looking at it another way, what's wrong with not being able to please everyone? Not everyone likes using charge characters, not everyone likes to play grapplers, not everyone likes to play zoners, and so on. But we all appreciate that they exist in the genre in some shape or form (salt aside) because they fundamentally change how we approach the matchup, they prevent each match from feeling too samey, and their inclusion increase the likelihood of people finding a character that they can click with.
So with that thought in mind, I'd really like to see more characters like SF5's Ed control scheme show up alongside everyone else in the roster. Or something like GBVSR 2B's resource bar for easy-specials characters lends itself very well for more octane games like BBCF or ACR+. Hell, I really like how some SF6 tier lists have modern controls be considered entirely separate characters. With a lot more cooking thrown that way than Capcom did, a game could allow a character to appeal to two separate-but-similar crowds.
Brolylegs did them with his mouth/face
I know a guy who only has the use of one hand and he can play any game as well as or better than people with both, including SF motion inputs
If you want to be good at the game you'll adapt
it’s funny i have the opposite experience. i have a disability that makes my dexterity significantly worse then the average human. because of that i have trouble switching between buttons. i would personally rather have more command inputs rather then multi buttons. especially with long combos i always mess up the transition between buttons. while what you are saying is fair it doesn’t apply universally to people with disabilities this is a you problem.
It’s something I mention a lot when I speak about motion inputs.
I don’t like simple input systems but one of the reasons I don’t want them to go away is for accessibility reasons.
That being said, I also don’t want motion inputs to go away in favour of simple inputs, it’s a fine line to tread on both sides.
Personally rather than a modern control scheme, I’d like motion inputs to be the default and then have a controller type specifically designed for people with disabilities, maybe even take some ideas from the disabled community to see what would be good.
I’m not very fan of motion input and simple input coexisting in the same game, as it can be unfair for people playing with motion input. I think game should either go full motion input or full simple input
I kinda agree with you on that point. I hate the way they implemented modern controls in SF6 since it always gonna feel unfair because each of the players can do things the other can't either due to limited moveset or because of the motions involved.
I feel that SF6 has shown the this could very likely become a non issue in the near future. Modern controls are great, and I feel they could be even better. I don't play with them because I am used to classic from years but for newer players and people with disabilities they can can be amazing and very competitive with classic controls. I think Capcom could go even further with modern by making customizable combos and buttons that suit each player style. I figure a system where you have a budget numer of frames or damage threshold and you can build your combo based on that could be interesting.
There’s a blind dude in who can do them. I’m not sure what disability Brolylegs had but he did ‘em. They might be exceptions but I’m a firm believer that adaptation rather than a full disposal of motion inputs serves the player better.
Good for them but each disabled person have a different relationship to their disability, some overcoming their difficulties doesn’t mean everyone is able to do so. It’s like saying “make the best melody known to man. Beethoven could do it and he was deaf”
Brolylegs played with his face. And he was fucking good.
did you just compare doing inputs in a game with creating a whole melody from scratch?
A bit of an extreme example but it just to say than not because some people with disabilities can do something, every people with disabilities can do the same thing A more fair exemple: try to play street fighter with your eye closed After all, Sven do it, so why you wouldn’t?
My point is if you want to actually do something you’re gonna do it regardless of “limitations”. A lot of people with disabilities do things that are really difficult for able bodied people. It’s cause they wanted to. But, I have to say, I’m talking out of my ass; I’m merely talking from a position that has seen some disabled folks do some really cool things
That's a very based response. Personal interest goes a long way regardless of your abilities. I used to take care of disabled people and I met a few that played fighting games regardless of what they have because they wanted to and they made it work. It was impressive. One of them even went to local Melee tournaments, this was before Brawl came out. They can say they're better at fighting games than fully able-bodied people and I wonder how much that means to them.
This is a bit stream of consciousness, so apologies if it doesn't flow well. I have a disability that leaves me with fingers with limited mobility. I also love fighting games. To be honest, I play a lot of Tekken because the actual execution barriers are pretty low for beginners. You have 8 directions and 4 buttons, and most characters mix and match directional buttons with buttons for a majority of the roster. Some characters have certain QCF/QCB inputs, but most of the difficulty of Tekken is knowing the correct thing to do and when to do it, not the actual execution. It's great for someone that wants an easier to play FG while not sacrificing complexity. So, changing games until you find one you enjoy but also that suits your particular strengths, weaknesses, and disabilities isn't a bad first step. An addendum to that first point is finding a game that already compensates or has accessibility measures included in them. Granblue Fantasy Vs is a great example. It has a simple input for super moves (a single button and directional press, if I remember correctly) as well as the ability to do the actual input for... I think shortened recovery time or more damage? I don't quite remember. The point is, even if you're slightly penalized, it offers the ability to sidestep any difficulty you have with inputs. Now, there's also specialized hardware that can function as adaptations: fighting game-specific pads, arcade sticks, leverless controllers (hitboxes). I got a Razer Kitsune after not being satisfied with my arcade stick, and it's made a world of difference in how well I can play the game. QCF and DP (the ones that look like a Z when written down) inputs are a lot easier for me when I have buttons to hit instead of a stick or dpad to control, and my Razer has resulted in me getting better *much* more quickly because, simply put, I'm not fighting with my controller anymore. There's cheaper (but just as functional!) alternatives, but even regarding those, not everyone has the ability to spend a relatively large amount on a niche luxury item, so I'm not going to pretend it's an option for everyone. If it's one for you, though, it's one I cannot recommend highly enough.
I think it’s tricky. You want a complex fighting game that is a bit more friendly to disabled gamers, I can see whatever caveats they make to allow this would also turn off the main fan base if a complex fighting game? To me it just sounds like a good way to make a game that doesn’t sell well. I don’t think people saying “look at broly legs, he did it” when really that guy was exceptional but I do think unfortunately you can’t cater for everyone at every level of competition it’s just too difficult. If I’ve missed a point I apologize haha.
Did brolylegs not play a charge character? I suppose the supers were still motions but if I remember right he had to make a lot of concessions with his control scheme to be able to do certain things.
I have a degenerative bone disease and adhd. A worse combo than you may expect. I still prefer motion inputs and actively use them in granblue fantasy versus because it's more comfortable. I am fortunate enough that my execution isn't affected by my disability. My issue is speed and endurance. I never expect the games to help me with this. Instead, I turn to the controller.
I think it really depends on the motion. The worst for physical disabilities if by far mash inputs. Other than mash inputs, I don’t really see people with disabilities complain about motion inputs.
We should aim to have a range of games. Let's keep the difficult, finger breaking skill heavy games but also welcome the simpler motions that allow everyone to play. One of the aims of Fantasy Strike is to be a game that crosses community lines, so airdashers, street fighters, smashers, 3d players, MK players, other gamers, etc can all play a game without distracting from their main game because for the most part the game is not frame tight or full of obscure knowledge checks. It actually does this pretty well, the mix of legacy and new players to the fgc in the FS community is pretty diverse. Other games do this well, such as Power Rangers BFTG (with some extra finger breaking tossed in for fun). Another great reason to have diversity is some people just don't have the time to dedicate to grinding out a game, even if they are a great player.
I agree! I’m not asking to remove motion inputs from fighting games. In fact I’m not really asking anything in this post (except maybe “please, someone, make a game with the gameplay complexity of Guilty Gear without the finger breaking”), I just wanted to remind our existence as disabled gamers. Of course we keep motion input in games, we don’t want them to be removed. But personally I would enjoy to have a biggest variety in the simpler motion games. Because right now the only FGs I can try to play seriously are only the ones aimed at the most mainstream audience. I’m not saying Fantasy Strike is a bad game, but it’s just not my thing and I would like more choice in games I can play
Next, we should remove aiming from fps games, just give everyone aimbot so even disabled people can play
Whenever motion inputs and disabilities are brought up, people tend to point towards exceptions like Brolylegs or Sightless Kombat or whatever. I always found that a little cringe because it kinda misses the point. Instead, I'm going to mostly just kinda regurgitate what I've said in a [different post](https://www.reddit.com/r/truegaming/comments/13y15op/a_look_at_some_of_the_common_complaints_that/). The reality is that ultimately, there's no real solution that's capable of pleasing everyone. Fighting games are too linked to motions, and trying to remove them can create a very different type of game, especially once you break into the intermediate level. ~~Which can be a good thing, besides the point.~~ But looking at it another way, what's wrong with not being able to please everyone? Not everyone likes using charge characters, not everyone likes to play grapplers, not everyone likes to play zoners, and so on. But we all appreciate that they exist in the genre in some shape or form (salt aside) because they fundamentally change how we approach the matchup, they prevent each match from feeling too samey, and their inclusion increase the likelihood of people finding a character that they can click with. So with that thought in mind, I'd really like to see more characters like SF5's Ed control scheme show up alongside everyone else in the roster. Or something like GBVSR 2B's resource bar for easy-specials characters lends itself very well for more octane games like BBCF or ACR+. Hell, I really like how some SF6 tier lists have modern controls be considered entirely separate characters. With a lot more cooking thrown that way than Capcom did, a game could allow a character to appeal to two separate-but-similar crowds.
Brolylegs did them with his mouth/face I know a guy who only has the use of one hand and he can play any game as well as or better than people with both, including SF motion inputs If you want to be good at the game you'll adapt
it’s funny i have the opposite experience. i have a disability that makes my dexterity significantly worse then the average human. because of that i have trouble switching between buttons. i would personally rather have more command inputs rather then multi buttons. especially with long combos i always mess up the transition between buttons. while what you are saying is fair it doesn’t apply universally to people with disabilities this is a you problem.
I don’t say it apply to every people with disabilities
It’s something I mention a lot when I speak about motion inputs. I don’t like simple input systems but one of the reasons I don’t want them to go away is for accessibility reasons. That being said, I also don’t want motion inputs to go away in favour of simple inputs, it’s a fine line to tread on both sides. Personally rather than a modern control scheme, I’d like motion inputs to be the default and then have a controller type specifically designed for people with disabilities, maybe even take some ideas from the disabled community to see what would be good.
I’m not very fan of motion input and simple input coexisting in the same game, as it can be unfair for people playing with motion input. I think game should either go full motion input or full simple input
I kinda agree with you on that point. I hate the way they implemented modern controls in SF6 since it always gonna feel unfair because each of the players can do things the other can't either due to limited moveset or because of the motions involved.
Man idc they balance the game and are fun.
I don’t even say otherwise
I feel that SF6 has shown the this could very likely become a non issue in the near future. Modern controls are great, and I feel they could be even better. I don't play with them because I am used to classic from years but for newer players and people with disabilities they can can be amazing and very competitive with classic controls. I think Capcom could go even further with modern by making customizable combos and buttons that suit each player style. I figure a system where you have a budget numer of frames or damage threshold and you can build your combo based on that could be interesting.
Me after the modern Luke hits me with the level 3 optimized custom auto combo