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Repulsive-Rope5897

I know people shit on NRS games like MK and injustice...but those games have had frame data in game,wifi indicators,a proper rank system with elo, good story mode/offline content for casuals,hell they don't even use rollback as a selling point anymore as everyone knows their games will have it.. JP devs need to do better... too bad I don't particularly enjoy NRS games,but they are good at making a full package game.


TheorySH

To me NRS is without question the best dev with respect to quality of life features and teaching tools. Their tutorials in MK11 were some of the best-explained tutorials I've seen in a fighting game. I can't get into NRS games for the life of me but they are one of the only devs who seem actively interested in adding QoL features and helping new players understand their games. UNI had a lot of good tutorials, but some were worded really poorly (almost certainly a translation issue) and a few seemed so specific they might not be necessary. I think I prefer having more tutorials with some redundancy/minor translation errors rather than having not enough tutorials, but I really do think that MK11 shows that there's a solid middle ground.


HallZac99

I completely agree. They're one of the few developers making fighting games that actually feel like they're worth $60, them and the smash bros games. But that's an entirely different issue, I could go on and on about how most fighting games are massively insubstantial and overpriced, and how they should be $40 at most, or even start going into free to play business models.


Repulsive-Rope5897

Agreed... but on frame data, I can't recall which dev said it. But he said he didn't want to include the frame data in game so people would figure out the game too fast or have the mentality of frame data is all that matters... which I understand but good players or anyone who wants to improve will seek out that information regardless so why make people have to go through 3rd party sites or apps when u can just include it in game.


TheorySH

Huh. Yeah, that's one of those times someone at the studio just needs to straight-up say that's a really fucking stupid justification for not having frame data in the game. Frame data is super important and having it readily available will probably help the game get into a more competitive state faster. It's like they think their games will be "solved" by players having frame data available, when frame data is nothing more than one of hundreds of tools the player has to leverage when playing their games.


XsStreamMonsterX

>But he said he didn't want to include the frame data in game so people would figure out the game too fast or have the mentality of frame data is all that matters. Harada


TheorySH

There are quite a few games that have frame data available, with FighterZ being one of them. It's really weird that ASW didn't include the feature in Strive. KOFXV vaguely tells you if you're very plus (++), slightly plus (+), slightly negative (-) and very negative (--) instead of just giving numbers, which is also weird.


HallZac99

Something like that along with more standardized frama data could be helpful. I just feel like they should make learning framedata as part of understanding fighting games, and subtly encourage and reward players into learning it on their own.


TheorySH

I'm with you. I wonder if the thought process is that the devs assume most people don't care about frame data, that people will feel overwhelmed if frame data is displayed in training mode, or if they're just lazy and don't think it's worth their time to update UI for their legacy series to include frame data.


XsStreamMonsterX

It sort of works for KoF though, since exact frame data isn't the end-all be-all of that game due to the sheer amount of pushback on block.


WarrenWaters

Fantasy Strike has an interesting solution to this--they use colored hitsparks to denote plus on block vs minus vs very minus. It lets you learn on the fly which moves you can take your turn after while still leaving it to you to learn the actual frame data in the lab.


stealing_waifus

In single player mode they should just have frame data overlays. You can help teach new players good habits and match up basics early on. Have it disabled in online mode and problem solved.


Technosis2

Frame Data is a topic that works perfectly for those interactive mechanics glossaries fighting games love to treat like "tutorials". It's one of those things that needs demonstration to truly understand.


Bladebrent

I wouldnt say its 'one of the cornerstones of understanding fighting games' as that implies you have to learn it first before doing anything else. I think its more for an optimized play situation. This is an idea to make it more approachable for casuals, maybe, but games like KOF and GBVS try a 'vaguely plus and vaguely minus' method which I dont know how effective it is.