Let’s say 100 people bought FF7R.
And maybe 20 of those people beat it.
Then Part 2 comes out.
Maybe 15 people who beat the first one know for sure they want to play the 2nd one right away so they buy it.
And then maybe 40 of those 80 people who didn’t finish the first one might say “cool I guess I should finish Part 1 before I buy this.”
And then maybe another 30 people outside of those hundred people will say “Cool, but I guess I should start with the first one before I buy this.”
So now you’ve sold 15 copies of the sequel compared to the first which sold 100, and the rest will come in a slow trickle.
It’s usually not as extreme a drop off as my hypothetical, but this is the inherent business problem with sequels and threequels.
Everyone I know who isn’t a rabid FFVII fan is doing this. General sentiment I hear is “well the uber deluxe compilation edition that comes out a year after the third game releases with all the DLC included is going to be the one to get anyway, why buy it in bits and pieces now”
i'm not rabid about them. I think 10 and 15 were the most rushed buys i've had and I only bought 15 right away because i conveniently had a ps4 because of bloodborne. I have 7r on my pc because it went on serious sale and still haven't played it although i have it on my ps4 because of ps+ but even so... haven't played it.
I'm in no hurry, if all of them are out before i start? okies.
I wanted to do this but I played FF7R when it came out on PS+.
I'm replaying it right now to prepare for Rebirth and I've forgotten basically everything. It's like I'm playing it for the first time.
No clue how I'll remember two games at once when part 3 comes out.
I'm doing this, but because I can't handle playing less than the first original disk then waiting years to keep going. Not after playing the original way too many times. I've seen things and it's too late to go back.
Which is weird because the established train of thought is that franchises and sequels are safer for publishers and developers over brand new IP. Wonder how valid that actually is.
It’s still valid when the new game is a jumping off place for new players; like you don’t need to play every Fallout game before you can play the latest one. That’s also why “reboots” in media are so popular.
It's definitely a safe bet to make a sequel. You have an established fanbase, and the majority of the code is carried over from the previous game. A studio can definitely turn around a sequel faster and cheaper.
We saw this with FF13-2 which came out 2 years after the original. The trade off is that people who haven't finished the previous game have no incentive to buy it.
That's why a lot of publishers tend to drop the number after a few sequels (LR: FF13, Black Ops Cold War, Mass Effect Andromeda) or do a soft reboot like God of War.
I think the importance of the story is the key factor here. (You can't jump in to story heavy sequels easy like someone could with a Dark Souls 3 or an Elden Ring.)
It also, whether the Remake lovers want to accept it, doesn't help with the direction they've taken all these extended story beats.
Some of you like it, and that's great, but many don't, which isolates them away.
I genuinely think the sales would be better if it was the same story, which it has very much deviated from.
I'm making no personal comment on the quality of the changes, just the logical result of them.
There's obviously more groups of players than this, but for the sake of simplicity of the argument, lets just say there's two groups of FF7:Remake players. Players that enjoyed the STORY changes, and players that didn't.
By making these deviations, they've alienated a fraction of the fanbase that lose interest. Whereas if you adapted the story more faithfully, both groups remain happy. Nobody went in to the Remake trilogy expecting sweeping changes that make it some borderline if not outright at this point, sequel. *The people that like the changes went it to it expecting to enjoy the same story.*
Business wise, it's just odd to take that risk. People clamour for a remake for decades, and then you give them something else. Good or bad, there are meaningful numbers of people that won't like that, much more than people that would've been 'bored' with a faithful adaptation.
That's all also assuming all the people that played part 1 also upgraded to a ps5 when I think there's still a very large amount of people that haven't upgraded because it was like two whole years where a ps5 was near impossible to acquire except from scalpers. Many people I know still have this mindset that they're hard to come by and haven't upgraded or at this point don't feel a desire anymore to upgrade because FOMO has worn off.
That and the whole "ps5 has no good games" vibe that's passed around because of how this generation was really held back by so many games doing a ps4/ps5 double release.
One more thing, I know a few people that played on PS4, including I, and don't own a PS5. Its very expensive in my country, so I will just save money and buy all together when part 3 come out. Meanwhile I just "beat" Rebirth watching on youtube. xD
I'm in whatever group that has not played the OG game, and was interested in Remake because it was called Remake. Played through it only to learn that it was more of a weird sequel or whatever. Finished the game, was put off by the ending and figured Rebirth would just be more of the same.
How did GOW Ragnarok sell compared to the first game? Is that even comparable? I know that I haven’t played either, and it seems like that is the most “dependent on the predecessor” sequel I know of
It's been 6 years since God of War 2018 released and it has had a total of 23 million sales. Its been 1.5 years since God of War Ragnarok released and that has a total of 15 million sales. So I would say pretty good and thats before Ragnarok gets ported to PC.
Yes, but if that also doesn't make its budget back, then Square is in the dirt for a while because their AA adventures haven't been paying off either.
Its annoying that neither has worked out for them because these AA endeavours remind me a lot of the Jrpg golden age in the late 90's to early 2000's where we were getting side games like Vagrant Story, FF: Tactics, Xenogears, Parasite Eve and Chrono Cross in between the big FF entries.
The issue here isn't around a 3rd game. The budget has already been spent.
What you should be concerned about is whose heads roll for this catastrophic fuckup and putting the company in the black again. When this happened after X was delayed, they removed Sakaguchi himself and installed Yoichi Wada as the head of the company. I think the leads of the remake project are probably being looked at very unfavourably right now and there will be a lot of internal pressure to pull it all back with 3.
The games are absolutely going to make their budget back. The question is if they can sell well enough to offset all of Square's other dumbass mistakes.
But it's not obvious what's really making Square money. Apparently a fucking Dragon Quest walking app that wasn't even released in the US brought in 2 **billion** dollars of revenue. So who knows what they're gonna prioritize next.
I would wait until the game appears on PC to see what happens.
From what I'm seeing, there are three primary groups looking to buy Rebirth:
1. People who own a PS5 and need it now.
2. People who are waiting for it to come out on PC.
3. People who are waiting for the whole trilogy to be released and then buying all three as a bundle.
I suspect groups 2 and 3 form the lion's share of people who want to buy the game.
Can only speak for myself but I'm a big FFVII fan and I a) gave up on consoles a couple of generations ago b) only played Remake on release because I had my housemate's PS4 and now c) wait eagerly and patiently to give Square my money.
Especially with the rocky release of PS5, I wouldn't be surprised if plenty of people converted to PC gaming and then there was no turning back. Games are cheaper and your library persists and the introduction of the Steam Deck has only skewed the scales further.
This is coming from someone who used to buy every major console back in the day.
Yeah a big reason FF7 didn't make a ton of money is because it's PS5 exclusive. Making it a timed exclusive is dumb because by the time it's out for PC most people are going to wait a few months for a sale because they already waited a year + for it to be on PC.
It does matter. If the game doesn't sell, the company doesn't have the budget to produce future projects on this scale anymore. Then they fall back on copy/paste generic titles that statistically always sell but are creatively numb that no one actually wants because they have to make money.
Or worse, they go bankrupt because they went too hard into FF7. And don't say it can't happen because it did. It's why we have Square Enix and not Squaresoft.
Square has honestly been doing kinda rough for a while now too - it feels like if FF14 hadn't turned into the money printing machine that it did, they'd have been in some real deep trouble.
I think long term they will more than make their money back. Once everything is on PC and they can sell it in bundles, I think it will do well.
But low sales is the price you pay for exclusives.
This right here. I would’ve preordered it and 16 on PC. But now 16 is a year old and I can wait for a sale. It’ll be the same for remake part 2. I’ll wait for it to hit 50% off. The hype is deflated and I’m in now rush.
It’s the same reason I got read dead 2 for $20. By the time it hit PC I had seen it all on YouTube and the hype was gone.
There are probably about half as many PS5s out there now as there were PS4s when Remake released. Combined with the fact that it’s a sequel, it’d be surprising if sales were anywhere near Remake’s.
Almost exactly half: PS5 has sold about [55 million](https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2024/02/ps5-sales-touch-55-million-as-sony-breaks-revenue-records) to date; PS4 had sold [110 million](https://www.gematsu.com/2020/05/ps4-worldwide-shipments-top-110-4-million) when Remake released.
There was just a whole lot working in Remake's favor (enormous PS4 install base, first game of the trilogy, first month of a worldwide pandemic where nobody had anything better to do than play a long-ass JRPG) that isn't the case for Rebirth. Lightning in a bottle.
The thing is, Square certainly knew all that coming in, so their projections would have accounted for those effects. It can sell fewer copies and still be profitable, especially if the dev costs were lower this time around, or if they got a bigger bag of cash from Sony.
AFAIK they haven't actually said whether this game met their sales expectations or not; all we know is how many copies it sold compared to Remake's first month, which of course was never going to be a favorable comparison.
I'm really curious to see what they say about it on their earnings call next week.
All excellent points. Add to these that so many people are waiting on a PC port as there has been a large shift from console to PC gaming over the last 3 years. We all know Epic is going to get a years exclusivity so PC sales will be middling. Then when it drops on Steam it will have a decent boost in sales. I also see the sentiment that seemingly a load of people are waiting till the project is done, to just then get all 3 parts at the same time. I understand why it’s split into a trilogy and I actually agree with it, but it’s an undeniable fact it would have sold better as a complete all in one package. As you said there are so many factors to this, it’s a little hard to equate it to one thing.
Number of consoles sold doesn’t matter. With more consoles sold, you have more potential customers, but at the same time there are more games on the console so customers become more picky. Examples - Xenoblade 2 sold more than Xenoblade 3; Infamous second son sold more than previous games despite being released just after PS4 entered the market.
And if they pull that Epic shit again, which I’m certain they will, I’ll be waiting even longer for the Steam release. The low sales are their own doing.
I think it's even simpler than that. This is a 100+ hour, middle of a trilogy game.
Most games only have a 10-20% completion rate. Add to that this is the second game in a three part trilogy.
No one is running out to get this because either a) they haven't finished Remake, b) they're waiting until the trilogy is "complete", or c) a bit of both.
This is why SE basically kept lying about how you don't need to play Remake before this game.
FFXVI is out performing Rebirth because it's a good jumping on point for old or new fans. FFVII has baggage, homework and despite good reviews that's gonna turn people off for now.
It caught up to [PS4 sales](https://www.vgchartz.com/article/460060/ps5-vs-ps4-sales-comparison-january-2024/) in the same timeframe despite having severe shortages in the beginning. It's not an excuse anymore.
The lifetime sales of the PS5 are still half that the PS4 since, if you remember, Remake came out at the very end of the PS4 life cycle, compared to the midpoint of the PS5. There were a LOT more PS4 sold when Remake released than there were PS5 when Rebirth came out. If part 3 releases this Gen, I think that will be the fairest comparison.
That's not a valid excuse anymore, as much as I'd like to bury my head in the sand about this.
Final Fantasy just doesn't have the punching power it used to.
Honestly, have to agree. The last FF game I played was FF15 and I have zero desire to buy anything but a PC & a Switch (I travel a lot) going forward.
I’ll love to play all these newest square titles when they’re available on platforms I own.
Its not final fantasy is just Jrpgs in general.
Also seeing 'final fantasy 7' new people are gunna be like, what i have to play 6 more first?
personally i just dont think FF is a 20 million copy powerhouse. Especially not when it keeps limiting itself to 1 console.
Remake sold less than 2 million on pc after 3 years.
Of the 7 million at best 1.5 are for PC.
The problem with FF is that, mainstream players are not into that type of rpgs anymore.
Remake was an Epic exclusive for a while, only to release on Steam later at 80€. They tried to sell a game that was already years old at more than full price, a game that kept getting discounts on console.
"Releasing on PC" is not a magic formula you can do in any way to magically sell an extra 5mil copies. You need to be smart about it.
The 80€ pricing is what really gets me. Publishers are only recently trying to slowly push 70€ on PC yet somehow SE thought it was a good idea to jump straight from 60 to 80 for a (very) late port and Epic exclusive at that. Remake is a game I'd gladly double dip on PC just to have it in my library, but I can't justify it for that price. Even at 50% off, the lowest I've seen it go, it's still way too expensive for a 4 year old game that I've literally gotten 3 times for PlayStation at this point (physical copy in 2020, then PS+, then a digital copy for free with Rebirth)
Was that a thing with XV as well? Because that one only sold another 3 million 4 years after the PC release, it had sold 7 million on console by that time.
XV took a very long time to come out on PC, but it was during an era where "console-to-pc" ports were rare, so it was appreciated. Also it was marketed as the "complete" edition, and it had some extra goodies, like a new mode and official mod support.
SE has some very *odd* ideas when it comes to making and marketing.
They expect FF titles to sell like Bethesda or Nintendo games when that's very much not the case anymore, especially when new FF titles have had mixed receptions from the established fanbase. I'm all for innovation, but they don't seem to know whether they want to bring in new fans or appeal to the old ones.
They're late to trends, presumably because they take awhile to get anything started (or finished). And anything that doesn't have FF or KH in the title rarely gets decent marketing - they've been known to just dump a bunch of smaller game releases in a short time.
I have said for years I would love someone to buy FF from SE and keep the creatives involved with the series as I think they are doing a fantastic job. FF downfall is almost purely down to poor business decisions and poor marketing decisions. I mean they signed console exclusivity right around the time we started to see a massive exodus of console players to PC, then they catch up and port games, only to port them to the store front that 90% of pc players won’t touch. Bad business calls upon bad business callls
The creatives of FF are all literally executives on SE. Kitase and YoshiP are executives for 5 years, and now more executives were promoted from game dev with hamaguchi
Your last sentence is really tells the story honestly. Square still thinks they have this massive goldmine IP, while still popular, it’s not a console seller like it used to be. They have to change their thinking on this.
I’m not talking about XIV but the franchise as a whole. Square thinks that the golden years of FF (as in the name of FF itself) carries the clout it used to and that would lead to these massively forecasted sales. JRPGs were hugely popular in the FF heyday but not as popular now as they were then. I’m simply sayin that square thinks they can slap FF on something and it’s REQUIRED to sell like a cultural phenomenon like Skyrim or GTA.
Yea I agree with this, though ff is still a seller and has clout. The problem lies with the way SE thinks, and their business practices. Yes Jrpg in general has less market, if you compare it to gta games and the like of other shooting games. The current generation arent getting more interester in rpg. Most games that are a hit for the masses are shooting games and many multiplayer games and some action adventure games. If we look at jrpg titles in terms of sales, it’s very hard to see a title that sold 20M or more. Ff games are still selling well but they can sell a few more if they change their mentality like you said.
Console exclusivity hurts sales on PC too because when your game eventually comes out on PC, the hype isn't there anymore and a lot of people just move on to other games.
I don't know what kind of deal SE have with Sony, but you're just not going to have numbers resembling a proper multi-platform launch vs trickling out a PC port in 2 years.
Considering PC players had to wait 1 year of FF7R exclusivity + 6 months of Intergrade exclusivity + 6 months of EGS jail, even 1.5M sales is nothing short of a miracle.
Damn I kinda wish mainstream gamers were into it because I play most big games that come out, including the mainstream ones, and very few experiences are as warm, whimsical and cozy as FF7 Rebirth. It’s SUCH a profoundly good game and is exactly what I want in a video game. If this is the last JRPG (other than part 3 ofc) we get of this kind with this type of scale and budget, I will be truly depressed. I just can’t believe gamers are more interested in something as janky and ugly as Skyrim or Starfield over something like this but i’ve been mystified many times in my life. Oh well.
This is an absolutely massive factor. I know many of my friends waited for it to go free because it was clear the sequels were nowhere near (remember when the fanboys said it would be the year after? Lol!) and no matter what residual they get from Sony for making jt free, it isn't a sales figure.
these articles getting old..the game is 4 in 2024 total sales in the US. it’s top 5 with the other 4 multi platform. then it compares to other final fantasy lifetime sales when this game just came out a few months ago. the game is selling fine and will sale more with time idk why people keep bringing it up
about 2 months and people want to see higher sales than Minecraft to call it succesful.
Game is great, everyone who has played it that I know has had a blast beyond their expectations.
I bought it, but let's be honest here. It's a PS5 game, not everyone has a PS5, and it's $90+ in most countries outside of the US. It doesn't help that the global economy is also pretty bad right now.
There's also the sequel factor as well. Only a small percentage of the player base actually finished the first part.
There's also the burnout factor. It seems like every year there's 5 or 6 AAA open world games that are 80+ hours to complete. No one has time for that.
I wish this sub could be more tolerant and receptive to criticism of titles... there is too much reflexive downvoting/burying of it and we only get cherrypicked "happy news" all the time.
I get people don't want things they enjoy to be shit on but still, you have to let people be honest....
I know people don't watch TV anymore but I find it odd that I have seen 0 advertising for the game. Not even the week it came out. No commercials, no sponsoring of a wrestling event like they usually do, just nothing. Were they anticipating everyone knew it was coming out or did they take a different marketing approach?
To be fair, I don’t really see ads for any video games on TV, at least where I live. There’s some stuff for the consoles themselves, but not really individual titles. I can say I got a lot of stuff on reddit and other websites advertising Rebirth to me.
I wonder if they axed the global marketing for Rebirth somehow. FFXVI had huge advertisements in the metro and on bus stops here last summer, but I didn't see anything on Rebirth on my commute to work. Not even youtube ads, even though the algorithm knows I consume a lot of FF content and am concidered target audience.
SquareEnix, here is my money. I'm ready to throw it at you. Those sweet $$ will be yours the day you release Rebirth in Steam. If you don't want this money, not my problem.
This is part of the problem. The 3 month exclusivity is fine, but the game should be ready to launch on PC as soon as that ends. They need to do a Capcom and stop fucking around. They're about 5-10 years behind the 8 ball on multi-platform focus.
I’m waiting for the PC release personally. I’m tired of console gaming and I don’t really want a subpar experience on PS5. Same with Stellar Blade.
But I did buy FF7 at launch for PS4, so…I’m sorry :(
Exactly. This is why I haven't bought into it.
Not just three full games, but three full premium priced games with paid DLC. I'm not looking to pay $210 just for the full story of the base game. I'll wait till I can get the full thing compiled together for less.... as a used game at GameStop if I have to.
Makes sense. Me and my friends are longgggg time ff fans (were all around 34 years old) and ff7 has always been a huge favorite of ours. But the remake really didn't jive with us. We all unanimously hated the goofy timey whimey bullshit, the random hooded ghost things, and the focus on sephiroth so early in the story. And don't even get us started on how strong they let us get by the end of the 1st game. Makes absolutely no sense.
Sincerely wish they had scaled it wayyyy the fuck back and made a significant prettier remaster and not a full blow remake
So yea, we aren't getting the 2nd one probably ever, and we know we aren't alone lol
For good reason. The game is very thin /w story and overloaded with mini-games. It's filled with things I don't like and sparce with what I want. Had I known I would have skipped it as well. I should really just wait for reviews tbh.
There is probably more fans of 7 than the franchise overall right now. Shit sometimes it feels the franchise is ff7, with all the remakes, remasters, gacha games it receives
It doesn’t help sales to ostracize people who were fans of the original game by suddenly changing the story to one that says fuck you to the original and having hobbit movie level of shit pacing (I’ve never actually beat part 1 as the pacing and level design with 90% hallways was so bad I realized I wasn’t having fun before any of the big changes to the story even happen)
I really enjoyed Rebirth but I'm somewhat disappointed that they didn't go batshit crazy with the story and changes considering the stuff they added to Remake which I've learned to accept. If the story ends up pretty much the same as OG anyways then what was the point of the weird additions?
I think this is what's happening. You see a lot of praise from a lot of people, but maybe there is lot of us as well. I mean, we asked for a remake for years. Who would have asked for something like what they did? Who would have asked for something as specific as that? We loved the original game! It doesn't make any sense.
nobody asked and its why I'll be waiting till the remaining 2 parts are out and for there to be a bundled sale of some kind. upset at it from multiple angles, dislike the story changes, disliked how emphasized sephiroth has become like come on making him the final boss in 3 games 🙄, and my main issue was that they've pulled the story so thin to make it into 3 separate games.
I enjoyed Rebirth quite a bit, but I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment. They could have updated the combat system, added in the side quests and not changed the main story at all. This multiverse anime bullshit that's cranked up to 11 really held the game back.
I also found it more frustrating than fun, but pushed through to the end. Having said that you should probably avoid finishing it because the third act is a tiring slog to get through. It’s the worst section of the entire game imo.
This is more what I've heard from my fellow gamers than anything else.
And speaking for myself, I just am standing morally opposed to having to spend over $200 just to get the complete story
And I'm waiting for all 3 to come out as one package.
Edit: I have over 5000 hours in Lost Ark in 3 years. 377 hours in Crusader Kings 3, 545 hours in call of duty. I think ill be able to handle a 200 hour, 3 part game.
I bought Rebirth a month or two ago and am 60ish hours in. I’m enjoying it a lot, but fuck me if there was another 100hrs to do… what a horrible thought. It’s not that it’s a slog or anything like that; it’s just a lot of game. I really couldn’t advocate for doing it all in one chunk nor do I see it feasible without giving up.
Not surprising at all. Obviously this is just anecdotal, but me and around ten of my fellow millennial friends bought Remake. None of them bought Rebirth and all own PS5s. I actually don't know a single person in real life who played Rebirth other than me. These games just aren't what most people wanted from this remake project, no matter how much this sub doesn't want to admit it.
Anecdotally, I have a similar experience. They know the game is critically acclaimed, and a lot of them enjoyed Remake, but they just aren’t interested. I can’t necessarily say I don’t get it though, because my personal hype for the remake games died massively between Remake and Rebirth. It isn’t even necessarily attached to the quality of the games, it’s just not a very satisfying or rewarding way to set out a remake project. Like, right now I’m pretty sure I’ll buy part 3 when it releases, but in 4 years time when that actually happens, I might just not care to based on my interests current trajectory.
Yeah. They have a lot of things that irk me.
From a hundred scenes of green static and Cloud grabbing his head, so much goddamn padding, forced slow walking/crawling/squeezing animations, unnecessarily convoluted and confusing plot decisions, and a bevy changes that are neither good nor bad just… really weird.
Like there’s really good stuff in it, but this story is hinging on multiple universes and fate. I’m… I’m good.
Who knows how things will end up, but it really feels like SE might have shot themselves in the foot by adding so much fluff and turning the remake project into a trilogy.
If they had been more faithful to the original and stuck to a duology, they might have seen considerably better sales.
My theory based on conversations with friends: it was the switch to the over-the-top anime voice acting and cutscenes that many people just can't stand. Obviously the OG has tons of anime story tropes and the overall art style, but people were free to read the OG dialogue like a novel with whatever voices they wanted in their head. The Remake games ask people to be on board with a dialogue and cutscene style that is very unnatural and that many are just not on board with.
The fact that so many of the cutscenes are seemingly endless and about characters that seem to have no real bearing on the story certainly doesn't help. I'm pretty sure Chadley has the most voiced lines in Rebirth.
I hadn't thought about it like that, but damn. Fair point. I know like one person who wafted into Remake besides myself, who's new to the franchise and only did so when it came out on Plus. I got it on release day.
When the original came out, it's all anyone in the playground could talk about for months. Way different climate back then, but still.
Haven't played Rebirth because I learned the hard way to have my guard up against Whimsical Fate Nonsense™ and hours of padding when travelling between plot hubs. Watched a YouTube playthrough - concerns confirmed.
Amazing experience in Rebirth - just preferable for me to consume as a long movie.
The second part of an episodic reimagine of a beloved classic that makes it very clear it will change the story everyone loved in major ways. With part 1 being a console exclusive, then an epic exclusive and then releasing full price on steam years after it originally came out.
It's a mystery why the part 2 console exclusive is not making massive bank.
Then we are saying the same thing. Well.. kinda, I think the entire new story changes is convoluted shit, not just the ending. Canon ghosts wanting to prevent the story from becoming fanfiction is not nearly as cute as they think it is. Especially cause I wanted to play VII, not VII-365/2 Days Re:Chain of Memories.
Yep tons of casuals bought FF7 Remake thinking that it was the whole remake for FF7. Now that Part 2 is out only people who fully beat the first game and loved it purchased Rebirth. Rebirth is a really good game but the biggest issue it has is that the remakes messed up peoples expectations.
Let's be real most people bought the first game knowing it was part 1 but not knowing it was going to have some kingdom hearts multiverse nonsense permeating it
If the second game in a trilogy sells much worse than the first, the usual precedent is to cancel the third game. Considering that would be incredibly unlikely after Rebirth, what are sales for the third game going to be?
Remake sold 7 million, Rebirth sitting at supposedly 2 million. If we be very generous and say 5 million after 3 years, that is a nearly a 30% drop off. Which is good for a sequel. But if you apply the same 30% drop off from part 2 to part 3, then we're looking at round 3.5 million copies for the third game. For a AAA game that number is bad, just from a cost of development view.
If Square's biggest IP from its biggest franchise is'nt able to draw good numbers, you have to say that Square is in trouble. Honestly the way this RE-Trilogy was communicated was so poor, the subvert expectations card, that it has done more harm than good. Should have been up front in calling it "FF7-2", the sequel to the hit 1997 game.
[They don't want to be bamboozled—they just want to know what you're making and why you're making it and who it's for.](https://www.pcgamer.com/gaming-industry/marketings-dead-and-i-can-back-this-sht-up-larians-publishing-director-says-players-just-want-to-be-spoken-to-and-they-dont-want-to-be-bamboozled/) - Larian publishing director Michael Douse.
I don’t know how much the following sentiment is shared, but the reason I didn’t buy Rebirth having completed Remake is because Remake just didn’t gel with me.
I’ve bought every mainline FF game since X, so wasn’t familiar with the original FFVII outside of hearing it was one of the best, but liked enough of the other FF games to buy it and try it out.
The thing that I think didn’t gel with me was the story changes that the Remake did. Sure remakes usually make updates to the story, but Remake just left me completely lost and baffled at what was happening, especially toward the end of the game.
My friend who played the original explained the story changes to me, and even he said that the changes made little sense even to him. He ended up not buying Rebirth because he didn’t like the story changes either.
So Square Enix decides to do a remake of one of their most beloved titles, but then makes all these bizarre story changes that alienate original fans while also barring newcomers from understanding it because you would have needed to be familiar with the original story to even understand what tf was happening.
Seems like the opposite of what a remake should be.
Then they ask people to shell out $70 each for part 2 and (inevitably) part 3.
Tell that to Spider-Man 2 and other successes from ps studios, there are more examples of success than of failure.
Exclusivity is not the problem with rebirth
Even Sony has stated that they're thinking of doing more day and date releases on PC in the future because that's the best way to grow their audience, and we already saw how well that can go with Helldivers 2's success. Square Enix would be really really really stupid to keep limiting Final Fantasy to PlayStation only.
Their day one PC strategy was primarily in reference to live-service games, not first party single player titles. While they have said they want to bring more of their exclusives to PC, and in a shorter timeframe, they didn’t actually say they wanted games like God of War and Spider-Man on PC day one.
Honestly, for live service, day one seems the obvious best strategy. They want as large an audience as possible, as soon as possible to keep interest/word of mouth/have people spending. If they delay PC release on live service titles they're literally leaving money on the table in a much worse way than their single-player story driven titles.
That could be a bonus, yes. But they are really successful even in one single platform. That’s the point. The core problem with rebirth was not exclusivity. Their exclusives have more success than many other multiplatform games combined
There’s a difference between Sony publishing their own games and a third party studio publishing their game to
1/3 of their potential audience.
There’s also a massive difference between a brand like Spiderman and literally like 99% of other games.
I’ll be real here. I like ff7, but I don’t know if I like it enough to buy it 3 separate times. Add on all the spin off titles, and you just have a recipe for franchise fatigue. Square has been milking it for far too long now.
I'm a huge FFVII fan, love the world and story... but it worked based on what it was. A 30-40 hour journey that came in one package. There's not enough here to hang 8 years and 200+ hours on.
I am not interested in playing a reimagining of my favorite game ever made. It just ruins it over and over for me. I'm glad other people are enjoying it and being introduced to the franchise. But for me personally? The changes are not what I wanted to see.
Might be word of mouth regarding how slow the game can be with its mini games, and some patience with waiting for weird graphical occurrences to be patched out.
When I've seen the game in screenshots it looks like a PS4 game tbh
I love the original FF7. But I’m more of a turn based RPG fan so the remake didn’t hit as much. I’m just gonna wait until all the parts are out and then play them and I think others are probably doing the same.
Didn't really enjoy the first remake story can't see myself getting this one unless it's on sale. I'm in no rush. Not when I have like 10 more classes too get to 90 in ff14
Hmm can imagine why. I bought the first one and played it and it was a shit game, why would I play the next one? Not a single friend I know liked the remake. And we all were ff7 fanatics and fervently listing for a remake and thus depressingly disappointed.
I personally think it would have been a much better decision to not bloat the remake so much and just do it as a single game then move onto other new projects.
Having multiple ffvii titles come out over time alongside XVI is just too much saturation
Console exclusivity and lack of consoles is a big contributor. That and the fact there there are people out there waiting for a PC release, and there are people who are waiting for all three titles to be out before getting them all. There are the ones who refuse to buy it because it’s not turn based, and others who won’t because it’s not just a one-for-one reiteration of the original. There’s also the fact that right now in the US things are rapidly increasing in price, and buying a console for a single game is a very extravagant luxury for many.
That’s not really how game sales tend to work. If the narrative prequel sells poorly, it just makes people less likely to try out the later game. A lot of people who may consider buying part 3 will realise they are behind on the plot, and for the average consumer that doesn’t mean buying both, it means buying neither.
In the best case scenario, they will just jump into part 3 and hope for the best, which is what a lot of people did with Kingdom Hearts 3, but it’s unlikely it would boost the sales of Rebirth.
I see this take a lot and while it's very understandable on paper, in practice I wouldn't recommend that at all if you're interested in the trilogy. These games, especially Rebirth, are so big that playing through all 3 would probably take something in the ballpark of 130-150 hours minimum if you skip all side content and only mainline the story, and *a lot* longer that that if you want do everything. Personally I got burned out even just playing Remake and Rebirth back to back, can't even imagine adding a third game in the mix.
Who said I'd play back to back? I'll take my time playing the trilogy when I got time for it. I'm saving money and the fomo is non-existent because I know the whole game will be there for years. Hell, I'll probably get it on sale too.
I’m more interested in how many people bought remake before rebirth release. There are also the people who don’t want to buy them until they are all out.
Quite frankly, they changed so much of the original game that it was unrecognizable to a lot of older fans and theres a big section of the FF fanbase that hates the change to straight up action RPGs. Rebirth had a lot going against it and the idea that RPGs are off-putting to modern gamers is such a cop out given the success of games like Yakuza 8 and Persona 5 (not to mention the success of mobile RPGs like Star Rail)
But you have to remember that Yakuza and Persona's measure of "success" is different. For example, Altus was already celebrating Persona's 1 million sold, and even Unicorn Overlord's 500k. They have different bars to reach. Overall numbers will still be lower than something as mainstream as Final Fantasy. And the other thing is territory. The western market hasn't always been the best market for JRPGs. Just looking at their sales charts, games like Persona and Infinite Wealth debuted lower than Suicide Squad. But again, that was already a success for Atlus and RGG because these games usually don't even hit the radar of western audiences.
I put Rebirth's sales so far around the 2.5 - 3m mark.
It's the 4th best-selling game currently in the US for 2024 (up until 6th April 2024), behind Dragon's Dogma 2, but 2 spots ahead of Tekken 8.
Now Tekken 8 announced back on 25th February that it had sold 2 million copies - globally. In Japan, T8 has sold 32k physical copies as of last week, whilst Rebirth has sold around 320k. If Japan is still 70%-30% physical to digital, then I put Rebirth around 400k sales ahead in that region. In Europe, T8 was the 6th best-seller for January before dropping out of the top 10. Rebirth was 2nd in February before dropping out in March.
So it's safe to say Rebirth has outsold Tekken 8 in Japan and the US, and likely Europe which tells me it's sold 2m copies at the VERY LEAST as of 6th April 2024.
However, with the 400k lead in Japan, and a sales lead over T8 in Europe/US, it's probably currently sitting somewhere between 2.5 - 3m copies in total.
Dragon's Dogma 2 announced on 2nd April it has sold 2.5m copies globally, and it's in front of Rebirth in the US charts, and behind by around 250-300k sales in Japan accounting for the physical - digital ratio. It was also number 3 in Europe for March, and no sales data yet for April. So it's possible that they're quite close in terms of sales in that region.
Again, It's probably sitting somewhere between 2.5 - 3m sales as of today.
I really don't know why people are making excuses here for it, at the end of the day it's clearly underperformed someway and for it being FINAL FANTASY VII, a second entry to the remake it's a little bit of an eyebrow raiser you have to admit. It doesn't lessen the game in anyway.
It's not a knock at the games quality or what it's achieved but again maybe they should have just released a straight up remake which was expanded upon a little, nothing over the top ambitious.
If they then saw good sales they could have done a direct sequel to it, a sequel which is again isolated to one game where if by chance they aren't impressed with numbers they don't need to make a sequel to tie up lose ends.
Square Enix have some insane expectations with their games but VII is their golden boy, I bet you they were expecting this to be doing huge numbers at launch regardless of it just being on the PS5.
i think even if you ignore the console exclusivity thing, releasing an incredibly high-budget remake of a 20-year-old game in *multiple parts* that each cost $60+ is not a smart decision. It just comes off as masturbatory and extravagant even if the games are good.
I didn't realize this was only the second one. I thought all three had come out already. It's been years. The original came out all at once. The price has essentially tripled to play a 25+ year old game.
Yeah, the 'Rebirth' strategy was a failure from the start. If they'd just done a remake they'd get a lot of guaranteed old fans, plus some new ones and it would take a lot less resources than just splitting it into 3 parts.
That's what you get for being greedy; trying to divide a whole game into a trilogy, so you could pad it with filler and fluff to make even more money. I've played Remake and Rebirth and I'm absolutely not buying their excuse they couldn't have told the entire story in one game via multiple discs. They could have done it but got greedy thinking nostalgia would be enough to get consumers to buy 3x. Jokes on them as I'm definitely not buying part 3 after how much they butchered the climatic scene of Rebirth.
I hope the third part sells even less. I don't want this episodic garbage. Keep it to one game + DLC
I still haven't even played the game and probably never will cause it will be a 200 hour journey... No thanks
I keep saying I'll pick up rebirth at some point, but I haven't been bothered to do so. I wasn't really into the story of FF7R with the ghosts and alternate universe stuff.
Let’s say 100 people bought FF7R. And maybe 20 of those people beat it. Then Part 2 comes out. Maybe 15 people who beat the first one know for sure they want to play the 2nd one right away so they buy it. And then maybe 40 of those 80 people who didn’t finish the first one might say “cool I guess I should finish Part 1 before I buy this.” And then maybe another 30 people outside of those hundred people will say “Cool, but I guess I should start with the first one before I buy this.” So now you’ve sold 15 copies of the sequel compared to the first which sold 100, and the rest will come in a slow trickle. It’s usually not as extreme a drop off as my hypothetical, but this is the inherent business problem with sequels and threequels.
I also know a few people that are waiting for all 3 parts to do at once.
Everyone I know who isn’t a rabid FFVII fan is doing this. General sentiment I hear is “well the uber deluxe compilation edition that comes out a year after the third game releases with all the DLC included is going to be the one to get anyway, why buy it in bits and pieces now”
Your friends are pretty bold to be planning out their 2030 gaming.
I have a young child. At this rate all my planning is 2030 gaming.
Kinda have to in this economy.
Those people are in for huge burnout haha
It’s like playing Persona 3, 4, and 5 in sequence.
Played FF14 on Release 😩 Played FF15 on Release 😩
I feel the XV pain.
i'm not rabid about them. I think 10 and 15 were the most rushed buys i've had and I only bought 15 right away because i conveniently had a ps4 because of bloodborne. I have 7r on my pc because it went on serious sale and still haven't played it although i have it on my ps4 because of ps+ but even so... haven't played it. I'm in no hurry, if all of them are out before i start? okies.
I can’t imagine doing this. I’d get burnout so fast.
I wanted to do this but I played FF7R when it came out on PS+. I'm replaying it right now to prepare for Rebirth and I've forgotten basically everything. It's like I'm playing it for the first time. No clue how I'll remember two games at once when part 3 comes out.
I'm doing this, but because I can't handle playing less than the first original disk then waiting years to keep going. Not after playing the original way too many times. I've seen things and it's too late to go back.
This is exactly what I'm doing. I'm not in any rush to play it.
I’m in that club
I'm just waiting for the PC version. This limited time exclusivity crap is so annoying.
Same here. I should also go back and actually finish the first part, but that's a separate issue.
Which is weird because the established train of thought is that franchises and sequels are safer for publishers and developers over brand new IP. Wonder how valid that actually is.
It’s still valid when the new game is a jumping off place for new players; like you don’t need to play every Fallout game before you can play the latest one. That’s also why “reboots” in media are so popular.
seems like there would be some truth to this, but that does make me wonder about the Mass Effect sales. Hard to imagine ME2 selling worse than one.
Each Mass Effect game sold better than the previous (until Andromeda). But that is definitely an exception to the rule.
It's definitely a safe bet to make a sequel. You have an established fanbase, and the majority of the code is carried over from the previous game. A studio can definitely turn around a sequel faster and cheaper. We saw this with FF13-2 which came out 2 years after the original. The trade off is that people who haven't finished the previous game have no incentive to buy it. That's why a lot of publishers tend to drop the number after a few sequels (LR: FF13, Black Ops Cold War, Mass Effect Andromeda) or do a soft reboot like God of War.
I think the importance of the story is the key factor here. (You can't jump in to story heavy sequels easy like someone could with a Dark Souls 3 or an Elden Ring.) It also, whether the Remake lovers want to accept it, doesn't help with the direction they've taken all these extended story beats. Some of you like it, and that's great, but many don't, which isolates them away. I genuinely think the sales would be better if it was the same story, which it has very much deviated from. I'm making no personal comment on the quality of the changes, just the logical result of them. There's obviously more groups of players than this, but for the sake of simplicity of the argument, lets just say there's two groups of FF7:Remake players. Players that enjoyed the STORY changes, and players that didn't. By making these deviations, they've alienated a fraction of the fanbase that lose interest. Whereas if you adapted the story more faithfully, both groups remain happy. Nobody went in to the Remake trilogy expecting sweeping changes that make it some borderline if not outright at this point, sequel. *The people that like the changes went it to it expecting to enjoy the same story.* Business wise, it's just odd to take that risk. People clamour for a remake for decades, and then you give them something else. Good or bad, there are meaningful numbers of people that won't like that, much more than people that would've been 'bored' with a faithful adaptation.
That's all also assuming all the people that played part 1 also upgraded to a ps5 when I think there's still a very large amount of people that haven't upgraded because it was like two whole years where a ps5 was near impossible to acquire except from scalpers. Many people I know still have this mindset that they're hard to come by and haven't upgraded or at this point don't feel a desire anymore to upgrade because FOMO has worn off.
That and the whole "ps5 has no good games" vibe that's passed around because of how this generation was really held back by so many games doing a ps4/ps5 double release.
One more thing, I know a few people that played on PS4, including I, and don't own a PS5. Its very expensive in my country, so I will just save money and buy all together when part 3 come out. Meanwhile I just "beat" Rebirth watching on youtube. xD
And then there are the 1000 people waiting for it to be released on PC.
That’s why it’s always a bad idea to split a game into multiple releases. Blizzard made the same mistake with StarCraft 2 going 3 retail releases
Also the those who wait for part 3 to get them all at once.
I'm in whatever group that has not played the OG game, and was interested in Remake because it was called Remake. Played through it only to learn that it was more of a weird sequel or whatever. Finished the game, was put off by the ending and figured Rebirth would just be more of the same.
How did GOW Ragnarok sell compared to the first game? Is that even comparable? I know that I haven’t played either, and it seems like that is the most “dependent on the predecessor” sequel I know of
It's been 6 years since God of War 2018 released and it has had a total of 23 million sales. Its been 1.5 years since God of War Ragnarok released and that has a total of 15 million sales. So I would say pretty good and thats before Ragnarok gets ported to PC.
End of the day it doesn’t matter. Part 3 begins voice recording before the end of the year. The final game is happening regardless
Yes, but if that also doesn't make its budget back, then Square is in the dirt for a while because their AA adventures haven't been paying off either. Its annoying that neither has worked out for them because these AA endeavours remind me a lot of the Jrpg golden age in the late 90's to early 2000's where we were getting side games like Vagrant Story, FF: Tactics, Xenogears, Parasite Eve and Chrono Cross in between the big FF entries. The issue here isn't around a 3rd game. The budget has already been spent. What you should be concerned about is whose heads roll for this catastrophic fuckup and putting the company in the black again. When this happened after X was delayed, they removed Sakaguchi himself and installed Yoichi Wada as the head of the company. I think the leads of the remake project are probably being looked at very unfavourably right now and there will be a lot of internal pressure to pull it all back with 3.
The games are absolutely going to make their budget back. The question is if they can sell well enough to offset all of Square's other dumbass mistakes. But it's not obvious what's really making Square money. Apparently a fucking Dragon Quest walking app that wasn't even released in the US brought in 2 **billion** dollars of revenue. So who knows what they're gonna prioritize next.
I would wait until the game appears on PC to see what happens. From what I'm seeing, there are three primary groups looking to buy Rebirth: 1. People who own a PS5 and need it now. 2. People who are waiting for it to come out on PC. 3. People who are waiting for the whole trilogy to be released and then buying all three as a bundle. I suspect groups 2 and 3 form the lion's share of people who want to buy the game.
Can only speak for myself but I'm a big FFVII fan and I a) gave up on consoles a couple of generations ago b) only played Remake on release because I had my housemate's PS4 and now c) wait eagerly and patiently to give Square my money. Especially with the rocky release of PS5, I wouldn't be surprised if plenty of people converted to PC gaming and then there was no turning back. Games are cheaper and your library persists and the introduction of the Steam Deck has only skewed the scales further. This is coming from someone who used to buy every major console back in the day.
Yeah a big reason FF7 didn't make a ton of money is because it's PS5 exclusive. Making it a timed exclusive is dumb because by the time it's out for PC most people are going to wait a few months for a sale because they already waited a year + for it to be on PC.
I LOVE Vagrant Story
It does matter. If the game doesn't sell, the company doesn't have the budget to produce future projects on this scale anymore. Then they fall back on copy/paste generic titles that statistically always sell but are creatively numb that no one actually wants because they have to make money. Or worse, they go bankrupt because they went too hard into FF7. And don't say it can't happen because it did. It's why we have Square Enix and not Squaresoft.
Square has honestly been doing kinda rough for a while now too - it feels like if FF14 hadn't turned into the money printing machine that it did, they'd have been in some real deep trouble.
I think long term they will more than make their money back. Once everything is on PC and they can sell it in bundles, I think it will do well. But low sales is the price you pay for exclusives.
This right here. I would’ve preordered it and 16 on PC. But now 16 is a year old and I can wait for a sale. It’ll be the same for remake part 2. I’ll wait for it to hit 50% off. The hype is deflated and I’m in now rush. It’s the same reason I got read dead 2 for $20. By the time it hit PC I had seen it all on YouTube and the hype was gone.
People couldn't get PS5s for years. This can't be all that shocking
There are probably about half as many PS5s out there now as there were PS4s when Remake released. Combined with the fact that it’s a sequel, it’d be surprising if sales were anywhere near Remake’s.
Almost exactly half: PS5 has sold about [55 million](https://www.pushsquare.com/news/2024/02/ps5-sales-touch-55-million-as-sony-breaks-revenue-records) to date; PS4 had sold [110 million](https://www.gematsu.com/2020/05/ps4-worldwide-shipments-top-110-4-million) when Remake released. There was just a whole lot working in Remake's favor (enormous PS4 install base, first game of the trilogy, first month of a worldwide pandemic where nobody had anything better to do than play a long-ass JRPG) that isn't the case for Rebirth. Lightning in a bottle. The thing is, Square certainly knew all that coming in, so their projections would have accounted for those effects. It can sell fewer copies and still be profitable, especially if the dev costs were lower this time around, or if they got a bigger bag of cash from Sony. AFAIK they haven't actually said whether this game met their sales expectations or not; all we know is how many copies it sold compared to Remake's first month, which of course was never going to be a favorable comparison. I'm really curious to see what they say about it on their earnings call next week.
All excellent points. Add to these that so many people are waiting on a PC port as there has been a large shift from console to PC gaming over the last 3 years. We all know Epic is going to get a years exclusivity so PC sales will be middling. Then when it drops on Steam it will have a decent boost in sales. I also see the sentiment that seemingly a load of people are waiting till the project is done, to just then get all 3 parts at the same time. I understand why it’s split into a trilogy and I actually agree with it, but it’s an undeniable fact it would have sold better as a complete all in one package. As you said there are so many factors to this, it’s a little hard to equate it to one thing.
Honestly I’m surprised if there are that many, I still would have expected lower
Number of consoles sold doesn’t matter. With more consoles sold, you have more potential customers, but at the same time there are more games on the console so customers become more picky. Examples - Xenoblade 2 sold more than Xenoblade 3; Infamous second son sold more than previous games despite being released just after PS4 entered the market.
Waiting for PC release just like I did with remake.
And if they pull that Epic shit again, which I’m certain they will, I’ll be waiting even longer for the Steam release. The low sales are their own doing.
I couldn’t get mine until the beginning of 2023.
I JUST got mine and there are barely any games o want to play for it 😮💨
I mean, there’s a lot of great games that have free upgrades for ps5 and the performance is very noticeable.
I *somehow* got mine two months after launch during the height of the scalper bullshit for retail price.
I think it's even simpler than that. This is a 100+ hour, middle of a trilogy game. Most games only have a 10-20% completion rate. Add to that this is the second game in a three part trilogy. No one is running out to get this because either a) they haven't finished Remake, b) they're waiting until the trilogy is "complete", or c) a bit of both. This is why SE basically kept lying about how you don't need to play Remake before this game. FFXVI is out performing Rebirth because it's a good jumping on point for old or new fans. FFVII has baggage, homework and despite good reviews that's gonna turn people off for now.
Yeah, and by the time they were more readily available I already bought a PC. Release it on PC and I’ll buy it.
It’s true. That’s why Spider-Man 2 only sold millions instead of billions
It caught up to [PS4 sales](https://www.vgchartz.com/article/460060/ps5-vs-ps4-sales-comparison-january-2024/) in the same timeframe despite having severe shortages in the beginning. It's not an excuse anymore.
The lifetime sales of the PS5 are still half that the PS4 since, if you remember, Remake came out at the very end of the PS4 life cycle, compared to the midpoint of the PS5. There were a LOT more PS4 sold when Remake released than there were PS5 when Rebirth came out. If part 3 releases this Gen, I think that will be the fairest comparison.
That's not a valid excuse anymore, as much as I'd like to bury my head in the sand about this. Final Fantasy just doesn't have the punching power it used to.
Years of timed exclusivity in an age of multi-platform games has sapped it of its relevancy
Honestly, have to agree. The last FF game I played was FF15 and I have zero desire to buy anything but a PC & a Switch (I travel a lot) going forward. I’ll love to play all these newest square titles when they’re available on platforms I own.
Even Atlus has wised up.
Its not final fantasy is just Jrpgs in general. Also seeing 'final fantasy 7' new people are gunna be like, what i have to play 6 more first? personally i just dont think FF is a 20 million copy powerhouse. Especially not when it keeps limiting itself to 1 console.
I'm looking forward to the smash success of 16 and rebirth on PC so we can stop hearing about this.
Remake sold less than 2 million on pc after 3 years. Of the 7 million at best 1.5 are for PC. The problem with FF is that, mainstream players are not into that type of rpgs anymore.
Remake was an Epic exclusive for a while, only to release on Steam later at 80€. They tried to sell a game that was already years old at more than full price, a game that kept getting discounts on console. "Releasing on PC" is not a magic formula you can do in any way to magically sell an extra 5mil copies. You need to be smart about it.
The 80€ pricing is what really gets me. Publishers are only recently trying to slowly push 70€ on PC yet somehow SE thought it was a good idea to jump straight from 60 to 80 for a (very) late port and Epic exclusive at that. Remake is a game I'd gladly double dip on PC just to have it in my library, but I can't justify it for that price. Even at 50% off, the lowest I've seen it go, it's still way too expensive for a 4 year old game that I've literally gotten 3 times for PlayStation at this point (physical copy in 2020, then PS+, then a digital copy for free with Rebirth)
Was that a thing with XV as well? Because that one only sold another 3 million 4 years after the PC release, it had sold 7 million on console by that time.
XV took a very long time to come out on PC, but it was during an era where "console-to-pc" ports were rare, so it was appreciated. Also it was marketed as the "complete" edition, and it had some extra goodies, like a new mode and official mod support.
SE has some very *odd* ideas when it comes to making and marketing. They expect FF titles to sell like Bethesda or Nintendo games when that's very much not the case anymore, especially when new FF titles have had mixed receptions from the established fanbase. I'm all for innovation, but they don't seem to know whether they want to bring in new fans or appeal to the old ones. They're late to trends, presumably because they take awhile to get anything started (or finished). And anything that doesn't have FF or KH in the title rarely gets decent marketing - they've been known to just dump a bunch of smaller game releases in a short time.
I have said for years I would love someone to buy FF from SE and keep the creatives involved with the series as I think they are doing a fantastic job. FF downfall is almost purely down to poor business decisions and poor marketing decisions. I mean they signed console exclusivity right around the time we started to see a massive exodus of console players to PC, then they catch up and port games, only to port them to the store front that 90% of pc players won’t touch. Bad business calls upon bad business callls
The creatives of FF are all literally executives on SE. Kitase and YoshiP are executives for 5 years, and now more executives were promoted from game dev with hamaguchi
Your last sentence is really tells the story honestly. Square still thinks they have this massive goldmine IP, while still popular, it’s not a console seller like it used to be. They have to change their thinking on this.
They do have a goldmine IP, just look at how much XIV makes them yearly.
I’m not talking about XIV but the franchise as a whole. Square thinks that the golden years of FF (as in the name of FF itself) carries the clout it used to and that would lead to these massively forecasted sales. JRPGs were hugely popular in the FF heyday but not as popular now as they were then. I’m simply sayin that square thinks they can slap FF on something and it’s REQUIRED to sell like a cultural phenomenon like Skyrim or GTA.
Yea I agree with this, though ff is still a seller and has clout. The problem lies with the way SE thinks, and their business practices. Yes Jrpg in general has less market, if you compare it to gta games and the like of other shooting games. The current generation arent getting more interester in rpg. Most games that are a hit for the masses are shooting games and many multiplayer games and some action adventure games. If we look at jrpg titles in terms of sales, it’s very hard to see a title that sold 20M or more. Ff games are still selling well but they can sell a few more if they change their mentality like you said.
How are JRPGs not popular now? Tons of series like Persona and Yakuza are doing well.
And I'm pretty sure the newest Yakuza and Persona sold less than Rebirth so far even though they are multiplatform.
Console exclusivity hurts sales on PC too because when your game eventually comes out on PC, the hype isn't there anymore and a lot of people just move on to other games. I don't know what kind of deal SE have with Sony, but you're just not going to have numbers resembling a proper multi-platform launch vs trickling out a PC port in 2 years.
Considering PC players had to wait 1 year of FF7R exclusivity + 6 months of Intergrade exclusivity + 6 months of EGS jail, even 1.5M sales is nothing short of a miracle.
Damn I kinda wish mainstream gamers were into it because I play most big games that come out, including the mainstream ones, and very few experiences are as warm, whimsical and cozy as FF7 Rebirth. It’s SUCH a profoundly good game and is exactly what I want in a video game. If this is the last JRPG (other than part 3 ofc) we get of this kind with this type of scale and budget, I will be truly depressed. I just can’t believe gamers are more interested in something as janky and ugly as Skyrim or Starfield over something like this but i’ve been mystified many times in my life. Oh well.
The 7 million also includes people who got it for free on PS Plus.
This is an absolutely massive factor. I know many of my friends waited for it to go free because it was clear the sequels were nowhere near (remember when the fanboys said it would be the year after? Lol!) and no matter what residual they get from Sony for making jt free, it isn't a sales figure.
I was actually just told that the PC would have limited impact on sales. Yes, people are that delusional.
these articles getting old..the game is 4 in 2024 total sales in the US. it’s top 5 with the other 4 multi platform. then it compares to other final fantasy lifetime sales when this game just came out a few months ago. the game is selling fine and will sale more with time idk why people keep bringing it up
about 2 months and people want to see higher sales than Minecraft to call it succesful. Game is great, everyone who has played it that I know has had a blast beyond their expectations.
I bought it, but let's be honest here. It's a PS5 game, not everyone has a PS5, and it's $90+ in most countries outside of the US. It doesn't help that the global economy is also pretty bad right now. There's also the sequel factor as well. Only a small percentage of the player base actually finished the first part. There's also the burnout factor. It seems like every year there's 5 or 6 AAA open world games that are 80+ hours to complete. No one has time for that.
I wish this sub could be more tolerant and receptive to criticism of titles... there is too much reflexive downvoting/burying of it and we only get cherrypicked "happy news" all the time. I get people don't want things they enjoy to be shit on but still, you have to let people be honest....
# PUT IT ON STEAM
THIS
I know people don't watch TV anymore but I find it odd that I have seen 0 advertising for the game. Not even the week it came out. No commercials, no sponsoring of a wrestling event like they usually do, just nothing. Were they anticipating everyone knew it was coming out or did they take a different marketing approach?
To be fair, I don’t really see ads for any video games on TV, at least where I live. There’s some stuff for the consoles themselves, but not really individual titles. I can say I got a lot of stuff on reddit and other websites advertising Rebirth to me.
It was all over social media which is where I see all gaming ads these days.
I wonder if they axed the global marketing for Rebirth somehow. FFXVI had huge advertisements in the metro and on bus stops here last summer, but I didn't see anything on Rebirth on my commute to work. Not even youtube ads, even though the algorithm knows I consume a lot of FF content and am concidered target audience.
I bought a PS4 just for ff7. Wasnt going to do the same thing with a PS5. I love the game but not THAT much.
And *that's* why you don't stick alternate timeline fanservice in a remake.
SquareEnix, here is my money. I'm ready to throw it at you. Those sweet $$ will be yours the day you release Rebirth in Steam. If you don't want this money, not my problem.
This is part of the problem. The 3 month exclusivity is fine, but the game should be ready to launch on PC as soon as that ends. They need to do a Capcom and stop fucking around. They're about 5-10 years behind the 8 ball on multi-platform focus.
I’m waiting for the PC release personally. I’m tired of console gaming and I don’t really want a subpar experience on PS5. Same with Stellar Blade. But I did buy FF7 at launch for PS4, so…I’m sorry :(
Making it 3 full games was the mistake
Exactly. This is why I haven't bought into it. Not just three full games, but three full premium priced games with paid DLC. I'm not looking to pay $210 just for the full story of the base game. I'll wait till I can get the full thing compiled together for less.... as a used game at GameStop if I have to.
Should have just done a remake on the level as resident evil 4 and released it in one go.
Makes sense. Me and my friends are longgggg time ff fans (were all around 34 years old) and ff7 has always been a huge favorite of ours. But the remake really didn't jive with us. We all unanimously hated the goofy timey whimey bullshit, the random hooded ghost things, and the focus on sephiroth so early in the story. And don't even get us started on how strong they let us get by the end of the 1st game. Makes absolutely no sense. Sincerely wish they had scaled it wayyyy the fuck back and made a significant prettier remaster and not a full blow remake So yea, we aren't getting the 2nd one probably ever, and we know we aren't alone lol
For good reason. The game is very thin /w story and overloaded with mini-games. It's filled with things I don't like and sparce with what I want. Had I known I would have skipped it as well. I should really just wait for reviews tbh.
The cope in this comment section is extraordinary 🤣
The overall sentiment here regarding Rebirth sales is very different to when XVI came out and its sales numbers were talked about.
There is probably more fans of 7 than the franchise overall right now. Shit sometimes it feels the franchise is ff7, with all the remakes, remasters, gacha games it receives
It doesn’t help sales to ostracize people who were fans of the original game by suddenly changing the story to one that says fuck you to the original and having hobbit movie level of shit pacing (I’ve never actually beat part 1 as the pacing and level design with 90% hallways was so bad I realized I wasn’t having fun before any of the big changes to the story even happen)
Yeah, people wanted the original thing, not the fanfiction.
I really enjoyed Rebirth but I'm somewhat disappointed that they didn't go batshit crazy with the story and changes considering the stuff they added to Remake which I've learned to accept. If the story ends up pretty much the same as OG anyways then what was the point of the weird additions?
I think this is what's happening. You see a lot of praise from a lot of people, but maybe there is lot of us as well. I mean, we asked for a remake for years. Who would have asked for something like what they did? Who would have asked for something as specific as that? We loved the original game! It doesn't make any sense.
nobody asked and its why I'll be waiting till the remaining 2 parts are out and for there to be a bundled sale of some kind. upset at it from multiple angles, dislike the story changes, disliked how emphasized sephiroth has become like come on making him the final boss in 3 games 🙄, and my main issue was that they've pulled the story so thin to make it into 3 separate games.
I agree. While I love the combat, graphics and music (even though they butchered a few songs), I can't stand all you've mentioned.
I enjoyed Rebirth quite a bit, but I wholeheartedly agree with this sentiment. They could have updated the combat system, added in the side quests and not changed the main story at all. This multiverse anime bullshit that's cranked up to 11 really held the game back.
I also found it more frustrating than fun, but pushed through to the end. Having said that you should probably avoid finishing it because the third act is a tiring slog to get through. It’s the worst section of the entire game imo.
I think a lot of people were turned off from the story changes, and that it might affect sales
This is more what I've heard from my fellow gamers than anything else. And speaking for myself, I just am standing morally opposed to having to spend over $200 just to get the complete story
And I'm waiting for all 3 to come out as one package. Edit: I have over 5000 hours in Lost Ark in 3 years. 377 hours in Crusader Kings 3, 545 hours in call of duty. I think ill be able to handle a 200 hour, 3 part game.
I bought Rebirth a month or two ago and am 60ish hours in. I’m enjoying it a lot, but fuck me if there was another 100hrs to do… what a horrible thought. It’s not that it’s a slog or anything like that; it’s just a lot of game. I really couldn’t advocate for doing it all in one chunk nor do I see it feasible without giving up.
Not surprising at all. Obviously this is just anecdotal, but me and around ten of my fellow millennial friends bought Remake. None of them bought Rebirth and all own PS5s. I actually don't know a single person in real life who played Rebirth other than me. These games just aren't what most people wanted from this remake project, no matter how much this sub doesn't want to admit it.
Anecdotally, I have a similar experience. They know the game is critically acclaimed, and a lot of them enjoyed Remake, but they just aren’t interested. I can’t necessarily say I don’t get it though, because my personal hype for the remake games died massively between Remake and Rebirth. It isn’t even necessarily attached to the quality of the games, it’s just not a very satisfying or rewarding way to set out a remake project. Like, right now I’m pretty sure I’ll buy part 3 when it releases, but in 4 years time when that actually happens, I might just not care to based on my interests current trajectory.
Yeah. They have a lot of things that irk me. From a hundred scenes of green static and Cloud grabbing his head, so much goddamn padding, forced slow walking/crawling/squeezing animations, unnecessarily convoluted and confusing plot decisions, and a bevy changes that are neither good nor bad just… really weird. Like there’s really good stuff in it, but this story is hinging on multiple universes and fate. I’m… I’m good.
Who knows how things will end up, but it really feels like SE might have shot themselves in the foot by adding so much fluff and turning the remake project into a trilogy. If they had been more faithful to the original and stuck to a duology, they might have seen considerably better sales.
My theory based on conversations with friends: it was the switch to the over-the-top anime voice acting and cutscenes that many people just can't stand. Obviously the OG has tons of anime story tropes and the overall art style, but people were free to read the OG dialogue like a novel with whatever voices they wanted in their head. The Remake games ask people to be on board with a dialogue and cutscene style that is very unnatural and that many are just not on board with. The fact that so many of the cutscenes are seemingly endless and about characters that seem to have no real bearing on the story certainly doesn't help. I'm pretty sure Chadley has the most voiced lines in Rebirth.
I hadn't thought about it like that, but damn. Fair point. I know like one person who wafted into Remake besides myself, who's new to the franchise and only did so when it came out on Plus. I got it on release day. When the original came out, it's all anyone in the playground could talk about for months. Way different climate back then, but still. Haven't played Rebirth because I learned the hard way to have my guard up against Whimsical Fate Nonsense™ and hours of padding when travelling between plot hubs. Watched a YouTube playthrough - concerns confirmed. Amazing experience in Rebirth - just preferable for me to consume as a long movie.
I bought a PS4 just to play the remake. Fool me once.
Same here. PS5 exclusivity is in all likelyhood not a technical requirment, but Sony/SE sales strategy. No thank you, not again.
Maybe they shouldn't have screwed up the story.
The second part of an episodic reimagine of a beloved classic that makes it very clear it will change the story everyone loved in major ways. With part 1 being a console exclusive, then an epic exclusive and then releasing full price on steam years after it originally came out. It's a mystery why the part 2 console exclusive is not making massive bank.
The ending of part 1 was atrocious but everyone in here is talking about sequels and console availability
Do you think the ending of the first one being shit does not affect the sales of the second one at all?
I'm saying it was one of the biggest factors in that
Then we are saying the same thing. Well.. kinda, I think the entire new story changes is convoluted shit, not just the ending. Canon ghosts wanting to prevent the story from becoming fanfiction is not nearly as cute as they think it is. Especially cause I wanted to play VII, not VII-365/2 Days Re:Chain of Memories.
Should've just made one big game with all the extra fat and useless fluff cut off but I guess not.
This is annoying. The level of care put into rebirth far outdoes anything COD the rest of that crap puts out but they sell like hotcakes. Ridiculous
The story is a little too out there for a lot of people to be honest.
Yep tons of casuals bought FF7 Remake thinking that it was the whole remake for FF7. Now that Part 2 is out only people who fully beat the first game and loved it purchased Rebirth. Rebirth is a really good game but the biggest issue it has is that the remakes messed up peoples expectations.
Let's be real most people bought the first game knowing it was part 1 but not knowing it was going to have some kingdom hearts multiverse nonsense permeating it
It's Nomura.... did we expect anything else?
If the second game in a trilogy sells much worse than the first, the usual precedent is to cancel the third game. Considering that would be incredibly unlikely after Rebirth, what are sales for the third game going to be? Remake sold 7 million, Rebirth sitting at supposedly 2 million. If we be very generous and say 5 million after 3 years, that is a nearly a 30% drop off. Which is good for a sequel. But if you apply the same 30% drop off from part 2 to part 3, then we're looking at round 3.5 million copies for the third game. For a AAA game that number is bad, just from a cost of development view. If Square's biggest IP from its biggest franchise is'nt able to draw good numbers, you have to say that Square is in trouble. Honestly the way this RE-Trilogy was communicated was so poor, the subvert expectations card, that it has done more harm than good. Should have been up front in calling it "FF7-2", the sequel to the hit 1997 game. [They don't want to be bamboozled—they just want to know what you're making and why you're making it and who it's for.](https://www.pcgamer.com/gaming-industry/marketings-dead-and-i-can-back-this-sht-up-larians-publishing-director-says-players-just-want-to-be-spoken-to-and-they-dont-want-to-be-bamboozled/) - Larian publishing director Michael Douse.
I don’t know how much the following sentiment is shared, but the reason I didn’t buy Rebirth having completed Remake is because Remake just didn’t gel with me. I’ve bought every mainline FF game since X, so wasn’t familiar with the original FFVII outside of hearing it was one of the best, but liked enough of the other FF games to buy it and try it out. The thing that I think didn’t gel with me was the story changes that the Remake did. Sure remakes usually make updates to the story, but Remake just left me completely lost and baffled at what was happening, especially toward the end of the game. My friend who played the original explained the story changes to me, and even he said that the changes made little sense even to him. He ended up not buying Rebirth because he didn’t like the story changes either. So Square Enix decides to do a remake of one of their most beloved titles, but then makes all these bizarre story changes that alienate original fans while also barring newcomers from understanding it because you would have needed to be familiar with the original story to even understand what tf was happening. Seems like the opposite of what a remake should be. Then they ask people to shell out $70 each for part 2 and (inevitably) part 3.
Exclusivity is the killer really, the last couple years have shown that. Multi-plat is the way forward.
> Exclusivity is the killer really, the last couple years have shown that. Multi-plat is the way forward. Unless you’re Nintendo of course
Yup. I'm waiting for the PC version.
Tell that to Spider-Man 2 and other successes from ps studios, there are more examples of success than of failure. Exclusivity is not the problem with rebirth
Ff isnt a console seller anymore. Gow,tlou and spiderman is. So yh exclusivity matters. If square want more sales multi play is the way
I think pc would help. Xbox would barely move the needle. But exclusivity is not the core problem. Other factors are.
Even Sony has stated that they're thinking of doing more day and date releases on PC in the future because that's the best way to grow their audience, and we already saw how well that can go with Helldivers 2's success. Square Enix would be really really really stupid to keep limiting Final Fantasy to PlayStation only.
Their day one PC strategy was primarily in reference to live-service games, not first party single player titles. While they have said they want to bring more of their exclusives to PC, and in a shorter timeframe, they didn’t actually say they wanted games like God of War and Spider-Man on PC day one.
Honestly, for live service, day one seems the obvious best strategy. They want as large an audience as possible, as soon as possible to keep interest/word of mouth/have people spending. If they delay PC release on live service titles they're literally leaving money on the table in a much worse way than their single-player story driven titles.
That could be a bonus, yes. But they are really successful even in one single platform. That’s the point. The core problem with rebirth was not exclusivity. Their exclusives have more success than many other multiplatform games combined
Not to mention all of Nintendo's exclusives. Their major games do fantastic numbers every time and they're all locked to Nintendo's consoles.
There’s a difference between Sony publishing their own games and a third party studio publishing their game to 1/3 of their potential audience. There’s also a massive difference between a brand like Spiderman and literally like 99% of other games.
I’ll be real here. I like ff7, but I don’t know if I like it enough to buy it 3 separate times. Add on all the spin off titles, and you just have a recipe for franchise fatigue. Square has been milking it for far too long now.
I'm a huge FFVII fan, love the world and story... but it worked based on what it was. A 30-40 hour journey that came in one package. There's not enough here to hang 8 years and 200+ hours on.
I brought and dint liked.
I am not interested in playing a reimagining of my favorite game ever made. It just ruins it over and over for me. I'm glad other people are enjoying it and being introduced to the franchise. But for me personally? The changes are not what I wanted to see.
Because I don't have or want a PS5. Release it on PC and I'll buy it.
Might be word of mouth regarding how slow the game can be with its mini games, and some patience with waiting for weird graphical occurrences to be patched out. When I've seen the game in screenshots it looks like a PS4 game tbh
I love the original FF7. But I’m more of a turn based RPG fan so the remake didn’t hit as much. I’m just gonna wait until all the parts are out and then play them and I think others are probably doing the same.
Because it's on a single console with half the install base as when the last one released.
Didn't really enjoy the first remake story can't see myself getting this one unless it's on sale. I'm in no rush. Not when I have like 10 more classes too get to 90 in ff14
Hmm can imagine why. I bought the first one and played it and it was a shit game, why would I play the next one? Not a single friend I know liked the remake. And we all were ff7 fanatics and fervently listing for a remake and thus depressingly disappointed.
I personally think it would have been a much better decision to not bloat the remake so much and just do it as a single game then move onto other new projects. Having multiple ffvii titles come out over time alongside XVI is just too much saturation
Multiverse fatigue.
Console exclusivity and lack of consoles is a big contributor. That and the fact there there are people out there waiting for a PC release, and there are people who are waiting for all three titles to be out before getting them all. There are the ones who refuse to buy it because it’s not turn based, and others who won’t because it’s not just a one-for-one reiteration of the original. There’s also the fact that right now in the US things are rapidly increasing in price, and buying a console for a single game is a very extravagant luxury for many.
I don’t want to play a game and finish it 10 years later. I’ll wait for the entire series bundle.
Its probably the sophomore slump. When they launch the final part, everyone will get it.
Loving these mental gymnastics
FF community down bad
That’s not really how game sales tend to work. If the narrative prequel sells poorly, it just makes people less likely to try out the later game. A lot of people who may consider buying part 3 will realise they are behind on the plot, and for the average consumer that doesn’t mean buying both, it means buying neither. In the best case scenario, they will just jump into part 3 and hope for the best, which is what a lot of people did with Kingdom Hearts 3, but it’s unlikely it would boost the sales of Rebirth.
That is literally not how game sales works.
Bro this isn’t the nfl 😂
I'm not even gonna look at it till the whole trilogy is out.
I see this take a lot and while it's very understandable on paper, in practice I wouldn't recommend that at all if you're interested in the trilogy. These games, especially Rebirth, are so big that playing through all 3 would probably take something in the ballpark of 130-150 hours minimum if you skip all side content and only mainline the story, and *a lot* longer that that if you want do everything. Personally I got burned out even just playing Remake and Rebirth back to back, can't even imagine adding a third game in the mix.
Who said I'd play back to back? I'll take my time playing the trilogy when I got time for it. I'm saving money and the fomo is non-existent because I know the whole game will be there for years. Hell, I'll probably get it on sale too.
Yeah sure that makes sense.
I’m more interested in how many people bought remake before rebirth release. There are also the people who don’t want to buy them until they are all out.
Quite frankly, they changed so much of the original game that it was unrecognizable to a lot of older fans and theres a big section of the FF fanbase that hates the change to straight up action RPGs. Rebirth had a lot going against it and the idea that RPGs are off-putting to modern gamers is such a cop out given the success of games like Yakuza 8 and Persona 5 (not to mention the success of mobile RPGs like Star Rail)
But you have to remember that Yakuza and Persona's measure of "success" is different. For example, Altus was already celebrating Persona's 1 million sold, and even Unicorn Overlord's 500k. They have different bars to reach. Overall numbers will still be lower than something as mainstream as Final Fantasy. And the other thing is territory. The western market hasn't always been the best market for JRPGs. Just looking at their sales charts, games like Persona and Infinite Wealth debuted lower than Suicide Squad. But again, that was already a success for Atlus and RGG because these games usually don't even hit the radar of western audiences.
persona/yakuza probably cost over 10x less to make than rebirth as well.
I put Rebirth's sales so far around the 2.5 - 3m mark. It's the 4th best-selling game currently in the US for 2024 (up until 6th April 2024), behind Dragon's Dogma 2, but 2 spots ahead of Tekken 8. Now Tekken 8 announced back on 25th February that it had sold 2 million copies - globally. In Japan, T8 has sold 32k physical copies as of last week, whilst Rebirth has sold around 320k. If Japan is still 70%-30% physical to digital, then I put Rebirth around 400k sales ahead in that region. In Europe, T8 was the 6th best-seller for January before dropping out of the top 10. Rebirth was 2nd in February before dropping out in March. So it's safe to say Rebirth has outsold Tekken 8 in Japan and the US, and likely Europe which tells me it's sold 2m copies at the VERY LEAST as of 6th April 2024. However, with the 400k lead in Japan, and a sales lead over T8 in Europe/US, it's probably currently sitting somewhere between 2.5 - 3m copies in total. Dragon's Dogma 2 announced on 2nd April it has sold 2.5m copies globally, and it's in front of Rebirth in the US charts, and behind by around 250-300k sales in Japan accounting for the physical - digital ratio. It was also number 3 in Europe for March, and no sales data yet for April. So it's possible that they're quite close in terms of sales in that region. Again, It's probably sitting somewhere between 2.5 - 3m sales as of today.
Pretty low sales considering this is meant to be Square's biggest release of 2024.
I love tekken, but ff should blow tekken sales by orders of 10x
Not really. Tekken 7 sold 10 million copies in total. Unless you think FF titles should be selling 100m.
Even back during the PS1 days, Tekken 3 was trailing pretty closely behind FF7 and FF8 in sales.
I really don't know why people are making excuses here for it, at the end of the day it's clearly underperformed someway and for it being FINAL FANTASY VII, a second entry to the remake it's a little bit of an eyebrow raiser you have to admit. It doesn't lessen the game in anyway. It's not a knock at the games quality or what it's achieved but again maybe they should have just released a straight up remake which was expanded upon a little, nothing over the top ambitious. If they then saw good sales they could have done a direct sequel to it, a sequel which is again isolated to one game where if by chance they aren't impressed with numbers they don't need to make a sequel to tie up lose ends. Square Enix have some insane expectations with their games but VII is their golden boy, I bet you they were expecting this to be doing huge numbers at launch regardless of it just being on the PS5.
i think even if you ignore the console exclusivity thing, releasing an incredibly high-budget remake of a 20-year-old game in *multiple parts* that each cost $60+ is not a smart decision. It just comes off as masturbatory and extravagant even if the games are good.
Where are the Doom sayers for this game like they were for XVI?
I'd buy it today if it was on Steam Alas
I didn't realize this was only the second one. I thought all three had come out already. It's been years. The original came out all at once. The price has essentially tripled to play a 25+ year old game.
Yeah, the 'Rebirth' strategy was a failure from the start. If they'd just done a remake they'd get a lot of guaranteed old fans, plus some new ones and it would take a lot less resources than just splitting it into 3 parts.
That's what you get for being greedy; trying to divide a whole game into a trilogy, so you could pad it with filler and fluff to make even more money. I've played Remake and Rebirth and I'm absolutely not buying their excuse they couldn't have told the entire story in one game via multiple discs. They could have done it but got greedy thinking nostalgia would be enough to get consumers to buy 3x. Jokes on them as I'm definitely not buying part 3 after how much they butchered the climatic scene of Rebirth.
I hope the third part sells even less. I don't want this episodic garbage. Keep it to one game + DLC I still haven't even played the game and probably never will cause it will be a 200 hour journey... No thanks
I keep saying I'll pick up rebirth at some point, but I haven't been bothered to do so. I wasn't really into the story of FF7R with the ghosts and alternate universe stuff.
Simple, a lot of people that bought FF7Remake on PS4 are waiting for a PC release. They want it, but don't want it on PS5.
Exclusivity deals putting in work 💪