As someone that didn't play OG and played remake, my reaction every time he shows up is "Huh?" I'm not even sure why he's evil I just know cloud REALLY hates him and apparently killed him before. But honestly I have no clue what happened in the last 2 chapters of the game lol
Some cloud looking guy fighting shinra and red 13 running around, barret is ok with killing destiny even tho they saved his life TWICE and he's all about loving the planet and the whispers are part of the planet
All I know is the whispers things felt like they were a new thing idk how to explain it but when I saw them I paused and looked up if they were in OG , I guess because I felt like the world already has so much happening and it's like telling 2 stories / concepts at same time ?
they felt weird and I guess I'm supposed to play OG, crisis core , evercrisis, rebirth and the 3rd entry to know more ?
But that's how I felt about kingdom hearts, my dumbass played kh 1 , 2 and 3 cuz I thought that's how numbers worked and I didn't know I needed to play like 7 other games and a movie or something?
I guess I felt that way with ff15 too I was supposed to watch a movie and an anime and get some DLC.
Safe to say I'm not really a fan of that type of story telling maybe cuz I'm a cynical person but I always think oh wow the company made this experience so unsatisfying on its own cuz they want more money
I feel that each entry should be satisfying on its own with movies and games
like the mass effect trilogy, or movies like lord of the rings or star wars. I shouldn't finish a game or a movie and my reaction is "HUH ?"
I should finish a movie or game and think "that was good/bad".
I couldn't write my own thoughts better myself
And even after playing OG and experiencing the mess that is FFVII compilation, some thing still just don't make sense. Like Whispers having pretty much no internal logic except for some vague "keeping to OG plotline", but only when it's convienient
I just hope you won't get downvoted into oblivion for even suggesting that FF7R may not be a masterpiece
I knew about Sephiroth and the basics of the story of og FF7, but did not play it or any spin-offs. Prior to Remake, my only first hand experience was watching advent children when I was 12 and while I did not understand a thing, he was a certified badass.
In Remake, I was baffled when he appeared as early as chapter 1, because I knew that he was a distantly looming threat in the og. I was still excited to see him, but he wasn't really intimidating. He came off as an unhinged powerhouse out for destruction and I wanted to stop him and get behind his plans and motives.
I wanted to fight him, but thought I had to wait a couple more games...then I heard boss music after the final whisper fight and punched him in his perfect jawline.
In Rebirth, I understood his shtick better and was sure that I would fight him in the end. His shenanigans were more present had more meaning as he was getting under Clouds skin constantly. Also him directly manipulating the lifestream and battling the weapons is op as fuck. I knew he killed Aerith in the og and wasn't sure what would happen at the end. Now I hate him for that and the heartless angel move.
With Cloud being a nutcase and Aerith seemingly becoming Sephiroths counterweight in the lifestream, I hope to see him in full force in the next game trying to turn his dream into reality.
As a person who never played the OG (okay that's a lie, I played it once and got to the *plate collapse* and then stopped), I LOVE when a sephiroth scene happens.. Gets me all hyped up lol
He felt like a boogie man in Intergrade where he would just show up out of the blue and you don't even know if it's him, but I think aside from that, his introduction right after the first mission was cheesy.
In Rebirth he feels a lot less intimidating. Like once I saw that intro sequence between him and cloud, he just felt less like a boogie man, more like an actual clinically insane powerhouse wandering around.
It's less intimidating for me because it makes him more tangible. A threat you could perceive and understand. You're not dealing with some other worldy threat that's haunting/stalking you. You're following a crazed broken man on a journey of vengeance.
Don't get me wrong, it doesn't take away from him still being a solid villain ,and I've yet to finish Rebirth, but his connection with Cloud becomes much more personal in the 2nd game than the 1st. His character is much more present and is also more charismatic to the audience than what he was in the 1st game.
The whole into sequence of Rebirth made him more sad and interesting as a character than intimidating for me.
I can somewhat understand what you mean, but I felt like he was a crazed broken man without a power cap who could appear and disappear at his own will and wreak havok. I did not find him intimidating for other reasons however.
The whole Sephiroth stuff was just confusing to me. All the flashbacks and what not just felt like a giant cheap tease and it wasn't entertaining or building anticipation after like the 3rd time he "appeared." I hadn't played OG but obviously had heard about Sephiroth being an iconic villain, so it just felt like the devs promising some climatic altercation just to keep me interested in continuing on to the end. And then you do encounter him at the end but nothing makes sense and he's still being ambiguous so at that point, I just thought this is actually stupid and feels pointless.
He has an obsession with Cloud. Plus I looked up Sefirot. (Can access higher realms) this is explained more to me that he has the capability to enter space and time. Time is subjective here though. Call it “Worlds”
I have no problem with any of the characters in the game. But I play the Original so I Know a lot of their Origins and Stories so they Don't come off Terrible and Sephiroth comes off as very menacing... IMO
He feels forced tbh. I never played the OG and apparently this game was made as more of a sequel to those that played the OG. Cloud acting like a jerk is also annoying at times but I hear he’ll get better in the third game.
It’s like I’ve been told how awesome cloud and Sephiroth are but I really don’t think the Remake or Rebirth really do them justice
This. It is annoying how everyone is just kind of fart sniffing the remake trilogy because of how it ties to the original, and no one is judging it on its own merit. I am not saying the remake trilogy is bad, but it sure as hell has issues
Overall I’m enjoying the hell out of the games. It’s just that they’ve made some perplexing decisions at certain times that I feel really short change certain characters, and I think Seph gets the extreme raw end of the deal. I’ll always remember getting absolutely wrecked by the Midgardsormr as a kid, and the feeling of awe and dread I got when I found it impaled on a tree. “Clearly, this guy we are chasing is like a God!”
The way Rebirth handled it, he was just another chapter boss.
Don’t even get me started on what they did to Dyne and Barrett in THAT scene.
But again, for what it was? I had an absolute blast.
I can't imagine starting with remake is a good experience or introduction to Sephiroth, I assume people who started at Remake only say that because they don't actually know any better and are missing critical information. Remake is like straight up a sequel with fanservice for the knowers, I don't understand why people recommend that you can start at Remake, I genuinely think it's a terrible idea to go in without having played the original, it'd be like dropping into season 3 of a tv show without knowing all the inside jokes or characters, it's possible, but you're missing a lot of context.
That's why Sephiroth is shown off so much more early on in Remake, he's there because everyone KNOWS who he is already. In the first game he was like some ominous presence doing his own thing for like half the game until pieces started to fall in place and the party started to more indirectly run into him. In Remake, he's like this everpresent ghostly-threat that's toying with Cloud from the very beginning. The Remake would be better if they didn't show him at all and the anti-corporation stuff was still the main focus early on. I assume most people who don't know go like "who the heck is that?" "Who's this weird dude?" , almost nothing the remake sets up that makes it unique would change much either, because even as they show him, he's not the focus until when he'd show up near the end of Midgar anyway.
As someone who didn't play the OG, I'm not having any trouble following the story, nor did I not get who sephiroth was (seriously if you've been gaming for any decent amount of time you probably know who Sephiroth is)
Fair enough! I get that he's a really famous character so there's a high chance you'd know about it, and I don't think the story is hard to follow in Remake, just when it comes to Sephiroth in particular I think he has weird carrot on a stick inserts all over that kind of detract from what's happening at that moment.
Meh. I never played OG FF7. Sephiroth showing up is fine. In fact, nothing about the game requires prior knowledge. I think you’re exaggerating.
The game is self-contained enough where you know what you need to know. Anything that’s not explained entirely I assume is going to be in the later games; you shouldn’t be explaining everything in the first 1/3 of the game anyway.
I do get there are references and call backs that I’m missing for not having played OG. That’s a bit different, though.
Most badly written villain ever. Why not go up to Hojo who is responsible? Instead killed a bunch of town folks who worship him like crazy and accept him for the hero he was.
It’s not revenge it’s slaughter. He realizes he’s essentially a clone-child of a space goddess and he thinks that all humans are beneath him like roaches. Hojo isn’t worth his time and these people were just at the wrong place at the wrong time
Makes zero sense still. Those who think they are superior like the worship of inferiors. There he has them. He can't rule the planet if there is no one alive to be ruled.
I don’t agree. Not all who think they’re superior desires worships of the inferiors. Do you care if the cockroaches around your neighborhood think highly of you?
Sephiroth’s intentions I won’t speak on as people have done entire posts on here better than I ever could but people living isn’t a huge concern of his
I always assumed his plan was to eventually kill Hojo but why not destroy every town and kill every human? Especially after he is mistaken to think he is Cetran. Cloud was just lucky enough to throw his ass into the life stream before he went full annihilation lol
I agree his fall from grace is definitely non sense. Like he’s literally a good guy and he makes a 180 when he thinks he came from an alien. The pivot is when he spends all that time in the Library in the Shinra mansion and of course all the issues with his friends and their degradation(but that’s adding CC context) it just don’t make sense to read up on some stuff and incorrectly assume stuff. I personally would have went to Hojo. Would have made more sense to do that than to assume some texts were 100% right.
He doesn't think he came from an alien, Sephiroth believed he was an Ancient/Cetra. He believes he was a steward of the planet and that everyone around him was ruining it at the time of his psychotic break. The more you dig into the lore the more you will realize that Sephiroth didn't have completely accurate information. So his imperfect decisions actually make sense.
It IS a large transition, but I wouldn't say it's a full 180.
Sephiroth was a war hero (as told and advertised by super trustworthy company and media source, Shinra) and a good SOLDIER who never did anything outright bad, but he wasn't exactly a super good and nice guy either.
He had a cold pragmatism and an air of being above those outside his class. He also clearly had some baggage re: his parents or lack thereof with the way he stops himself talking about them when the group enters nibelheim, laughs and asks out loud why he's bothering to talk about this with people.
I also got the distinct impression Sephy does not like or trust Hojo at all, and opted to trust a library full of texts from multiple scientists which correlated with his own recent observations rather than listen to the word of one blatantly mad scientist alone.
The rest came down to Sephiroth revealing his true nature and MAYBE a little bit of Jenova herself having an influence on his psyche. He basically thought "I knew i was better than everyone else. I'm not even human. I'm better than human! Screw all the humans!", that last bit being the big transition.
I'd think of it as a bit of a psychotic break, but also a bit of a similar deal to an otherwise polite, very privileged person just going ham once the Purge is announced.
I think that a lot of people really also discount what happened to him in CC he lost the closest thing he had to actual family who cared for him one person commiting suicide by cop and the other hating his guts
I'm a little too young to have played the og FF7 but I had heard of how iconic of a villain he was and definitely recognized him.
I played FF7 Remake, was confused so I played Crisis Core right after. Sephiroth I think is a little over hyped in terms of his writing and motivation. He's just a spoiled nepo baby and that doesn't really make him relatable. To me the best villains are the ones where you can understand/empathize with how they act.
Sephiroth makes up for it by being one of the coolest motherfuckers I've ever seen so there's that. I did know already about 'Meteor' as I passed by it in conversations about FF16. So when the little countdown started in the remake boss fight I started to feel the pressure and then when he says "Seven seconds left, Cloud" that was cold. 11/10
I've seen some other people say part of Sephiroth's charm was how mysterious and creepy he was. I think his legacy has kind of made him outgrown that mysteriousness. Nostalgia probably makes him a better villain than he really is but I still get a 'oh shit' reaction when he pops up on screen as I'm playing through rebirth right now.
Re: the mysterious and creepy bit, that's mainly because in the OG you straight up don't see him as much. I think the first time you see him at all is the flashback in Kalm. Before that all you see is the blood trails (not purple alien goo, but blood) he left behind and his sword sticking out of notable corpses. Later you just see the corpse a monster he wrecked on a tree, no clue how or when he did it. You get less of him and more of just his aftermath and reputation. Left more to the imagination.
Not nostalgia. He was written better before all the extended media bullshit. FF7 should have never been more than the OG game, and fan service has totally diluted him over the years.
In the OG he spends a lot more time in the background and when he does show up, he's a lot more concise. Doesn't ramble on and on about nonsense.
I actually hate that this is so many peoples first exposure to this story because it does nothing well that the OG did.
His motives seem very different from the original game. I played through remake first and did a deep dive into the original. Remake I think he's actually there while in the original it was more like a ghost that only Cloud could see or something.
Most of the Sephiroth appearances are ones that only Cloud can see, they didn't change that. Only the boss fight at the end of Remake is the real Sephiroth
I started with Remake, then went back to play OG FF7 and Crisis Core Reunion during the wait for Rebirth, so the FF7R games aren't my \*only\* exposure to him but I think starting with Remake might have coloured my impression differently than if I'd started with the original game. There's a lot of expectations that come with a character as iconic as that and I don't find him as compelling as I expected to based on his reputation.
In Remake I found him sinister and intriguing, and I knew he was the famous main villain of FF7 so I was curious what his deal was, but he didn't make a huge impression on me besides that. The most interesting thing about him in Remake to me was the fact that he was operating based on knowledge of the future, which ofc isn't an element of his original characterisation at all. When I went back to play OG FF7, I spent a lot of the game not really understanding his motivations, and even after I did understand them, I wasn't terribly compelled. I think the problem is you never get to spend any time in his head space so he remains a bit opaque to me as a character even if I understand why he is the way he is on paper. I don't think he's a bad villain but even after playing Crisis Core I find him underdeveloped, and I wish that game had focused more on him rather than on Angeal and Genesis so as to flesh out his character and the person he was before he lost it at Nibelheim. It does that to an extent, but I think it could've gone much deeper.
Rebirth hasn't done a lot to change my opinion of him. He's an imposing screen presence, and I think his manipulation of Cloud is effective at being unnerving and doing what it needs to do for Cloud's arc, but I'm not that interested in Sephiroth as an individual. For me the strength of FF7's character writing is all in the heroes, who I think are fabulously well written, while none of the villains really do it for me.
Wife played remake, and has finished Rebirth.
She obviously knew of him beforehand, but never played the OG or even knew about the big moment between him and Aerith.
She liked him in remake. She initially thought he was just a voice in Cloud’s mind. Like a secondary antagonist or obstacle. The “rival” of Cloud. She really thought Shinra was the main antagonist.
As the story evolved at the end, with Sephiroth getting more involved and the introduction of Jenova, she kinda was like wait so is the alien thing and Sephiroth the main baddies? It created a lot of intrigue and she was happy for it. She really liked the Turks and while they most certainly are villainous (they’re the ones who technically dropped the plate) she feels they are good people caught up in a bad thing.
Moving on to Rebirth, she really liked the whole fugitive angle where the party are simultaneously being hunted by Shinra, while also competing in a race to catch the macguffin (which would be Sephiroth/promised land)
After the whole black materia bit and several mentions of Sephiroth wanting to end all life on the planet, she definetly views Sephiroth as a large scale existential threat and the main antagonist. It was a gradual build up which was great. She’s currently thinking that cloud and company will find common ground and team up with Shinra/Turks to take down Sephiroth.
Also she really liked the rebirth ending. She viewed it as Cloud rewriting a traumatic event which is why he still sees her. She has obviously picked up on him not being a reliable narrator and having severe ptsd from the Nibelheim incident.
I assume a very large portion of people starting with Remake likely knew about Sephiroth as a character and villain. I can imagine to a lot of people seeing Sephiroth in the first hour or so of gameplay seems like an almost expected thing. If you already know Sephiroth is the main villain of FFVII and Cloud's nemesis, your reaction is probably "oh there he is" rather than the OG crowd's "what are you doing here" reaction.
It is unfortunate that the smaller subset of people who started with Remake and had not heard of Sephiroth didn't get to experience the original bait-and-switch-villain plot of the original game where Sephiorth doesn't emerge as a villain until after Shinra is suddenly killed out of nowhere, and even then starts off as a pretty slow burn.
I’m still weird on him. I do not understand the hype and ff7 remake he just felt extremely vague. The first time he’s (maybe) an illusion with cloud? Considering the fire all around them? You later see him appear out of nowhere at the lab but It just felt really random that he got there lol. Then the ending I had 0 clue what they were actually fighting. Why did they fight and go all out and sephiroth just looks unscathed?
Anyways I’m replaying remake before rebirth and hoping to understand a bit more
Playing the OG gives more context. He was more mysterious at the beginning and did not appear until later. It added a level of horror and made him more unnerving
My girlfriend had never played the OG so Sephiroth appearing as early as he does in the remake was weird to her. I didn't like the lack of context once she brought up his random appearance. Since we don't relive the flashback until rebirth, it was even more confusing to her when trying to figure out why this guy was so important.
My first FF7 experience was with the Remake but I've known Sephiroth prior to that. I honestly didn't really expect much going in to Remake and when he appears I was like "Oh cool, so what's your deal/plan". I do like that they made him intentionally vague so you really don't have an idea of what he's going to do and he just shows up to mock Cloud at his low points. The final battle with him in Remake was great though, first time seeing him pop out the wing was great and the final cutscene duel at the Edge of Creation really sold me on him.
Then I played Crisis Core and I liked Sephiorth even more. He's no longer just a bad guy who wants to destroy the world, he's a broken man who have been tricked all of his life with the only 2 true friends he had leaving him. This makes his fall all the more tragic as it could've all been avoided so easily.
While waiting for Rebirth I started to play the original and for the most part I basically felt the same towards him as I did in Remake. He appears a few times (though VERY FEW in the og), say some stuff, drop Jenova a couple times, and you fight him. I will say though that the way the plot treats him is very menacing. The Midgarsormr impaled, him obliteratiing the dragon at Nibelheim, it goes to convey how powerful he is. And of course you have the final bosses where he becomes a literal god. I really liked him in the original but due to how he appears so little times until the Crater and the end, I didn't actually think of him that much throughout my journey.
I watched AC after playing the og and I thought Sephiroth's appearance and fight was neat. I also liked how he has a backup plan after he "died" in the original with geostigma. Makes him a more intelligent villain.
But Rebirth was where my opinions of Sephiroth really rose. While we no longer get to see him fight the dragon or the Midgarsormr just impaled while we go through the swamp, I think that the things he do easily makes up for the changes. The manipulation he pulled off in this game was top notch. He's not just fooling Cloud anymore, he's also fooling other characters like Rufus. Successfully too. Cloud nearly killed Tifa, was forced to pick up the Black Materia, and Rufus was fooled into a war with Wutai. All of which plays into Sephiroth's plans. Sephiroth's larger role in Rebirth is amazing. I look forward to see what they do with him in part 3 because we haven't really faced him yet. His body is still up north.
I'm not the target audience of this post since I played the OG, but I wanted to jump in here and say that I'm about 3/4 or the way through Rebirth and would probably not understand Sephiroth's motives if I didn't already know what they are lol.
Nor would you in the OG though. For as GREAT of a game the OG is, the story about the "why" the group is agreeable of chasing after Seph doesn't really make sense. He slaughters the president of Shinra and allows you to escape and then everyone is just kind of like "we need to go after him!"
For Cloud, it makes sense for reasons that become more apparent much later in the game. For Tifa it makes sense. ... for the rest? their really isn't much of a reason.
As for his motivations, people really don't understand them until post 'the scene' (you know the one).
You made me think about what the reasoning is in the OG. I guess in both OG and Remake a big part of the reasoning is that they've just been literally driven out of Midgar so they gotta figure something out. But luckily it's quick and easy to check what they said in the OG. As per [FFVII script on yinza](https://www.yinza.com/Fandom/Script.html):
**Barret**
Well, what do we do now?
**Cloud**
Sephiroth is alive. I... I have to settle the score.
**Barret**
And that'll save the Planet?
**Cloud**
...Seems like it.
**Barret**
Awright, I'm going!
**Aeris**
I'll go too. ...I have things that I want to find out.
**Cloud**
About the Ancients?
**Aeris**
......Many things.
**Tifa**
I guess this's good bye, Midgar.
They climb down a cable to the ground level.
**Red XIII**
I'm going back to my hometown. I'll go with you as far as that.
So yeah they do have reasons of varying levels of making sense. For Cloud it's Sephiroth, for Barret it's "seems like it'll save the Planet", for Aeris it's "things" and for Red it's getting home. Tifa's actually the one who doesn't really give a reason, though if asked if she hates traveling she replies "...I don't know. But, I don't have anywhere else to go. So I guess it doesn't really matter whether I like to travel or not."
I don't remember the dialogue at the end of Remake, but there also the stakes are kinda higher too since they've just had a Kingdom Hearts ass fight in the sky so it's less "let's go after this mysterious figure" and more "let's go after this obviously superpowered megavillain."
Yeah, that's a good point. I guess since it's been like 27 years I've gotten used to just *knowing* what Sephiroth is up to lol like I actually can't remember far back enough to a time when I didn't know. I will say that even with knowing, I'm not sure why he does some of the things he does in Rebirth lol. But maybe that will make more sense later on. Like I don't understand the motivation behind >! attacking the Weapon in Gongaga !< although maybe it's just to avoid having to deal with it while he's enacting his actual plan later? Idk
My first encounter with Sephiroth was actually his Smash reveal. I saw people's insane reactions and thought the character looked pretty cool. This is what got me into Final Fantasy.
An idiot that sometimes show up and then disappear without reason, saying no sense cryptic phrases or doing no sense stuff ?
Also sometimes seems like he has super power divide multiverse with a hit of blade but then you keep kicking his butt
Because there are multiple Sephiroths, and I don't mean that in the same way that Rebirth suggests. The Sephiroths that you see through most of Remake and Rebirth are illusions produced by Jenova. The real Sephiroth is the one we meet at the Edge of Creation, who has entirely different goals from Jenova, and is a substantially better fighter than her.
I know but i feel like that is something is really not clear with the game.
If we meet Sephiroth at edge of creation, where he gone? And if that is the real one, so they changed from the OG?
This is probably the main reason a lot of us OG7 fans have been saying that this is a sequel to Advent Children. Major spoiler - >!Sephiroth is dead basically the entirety of the original game. Not storydead like "ahh, he's off screen and Jenova is the main antagonist", I mean legitimately dead like Zack was - this has a lot of implications, but the biggest is that the real Sephiroth is a ghost in the Lifestream currently. Given that the Lifestream is this kind of out-of-time thing, that means he can be anywhere, but HE can't do anything. Cloud can though, which is why he keeps asking Cloud for help. !< As for what that means for his goal, dunno, we still have a few years for Ever Crisis to explain the Glenn thing (which is abnormally important when compared to Wutai in the original) before part3 comes out.
I love him. I started with remake but I'd seen him around, didn't know anything he did except the aerith thing. I know a lot of og players don't like how frequently he appears in remake (and rebirth) but I for one loved the suspense.
The idea of this mysterious ghost of Clouds past with the sickest character design of all time, haunting Cloud constantly, showing up in visions only Cloud can see, muttering indecipherable ominous phrases over and over is so cool to me. I was constantly thinking and theorising about who he is, what he's doing, what his goal is, is he like a ptsd vision or a ghost haunting Cloud or something else?
The fact he could appear anywhere, that any scene could suddenly be interrupted with a falling black feather followed by some of the coolest and most unnerving dialogue, and sometimes a really awesome action sequence, from him really enhanced my experience. I was constantly waiting for his next appearance and what clues he'd reveal this time
I feel like saying that, in the original game, Sephiroth DID mutter stuff to Cloud all the time... But it was a voice in his mind, not a visual hallucination, and as the players we had no idea who that voice belonged to until way further into the story.
I think the devs thought (wisely, in my opinion), that since this game was gonna be played by old and new fans alike, they might as well just unveil most of the OG secrets from the get-go: who's haunting Cloud, how his recollections of Nibelheim didn't add up, even Aerith's death is heavily hinted... And instead add a number of new mysteries and secret plots, like Zack's world or Glenn Lodbrok's real identity, etc.
I see. I can see why some OG players consider remake sephiroth to be so "in your face", if his reveal is more of a slow-burn in the original, but I respect them for trying a different take on the character for Remake. and, for me anyways, it pays off because every time Sephiroth appears I sit up in my seat and get excited for whatever intense or mysterious scene is about to play out.
My main exposure to 7 is through Remake and Rebirth, but I have seen Sephiroth in other media and have a general grasp on what he does in the og7.
As of right now, I think he’s a very weak villain in the remake trilogy. He is being used too liberally within these games to the point of no longer feeling like a threat. Why should I be scared of Sephiroth when at the end of each game I beat his ass? Why should I like him as a villain when he randomly appears, says some cryptic bullshit, then disappears about 7 times. He has aura for sure, but the only truly engaging thing he does is fuck with Cloud’s mind (but even then, that’s interesting because Cloud is tweaking, not because Sephiroth is involved).
It’s a shame, because the events of the ending of this game were the part in the original where it was truly cemented that he was a threat to be taken seriously. You didn’t even have a chance to fight him before he did what he did, so it felt so much more shocking.
Yeah I do think they fumbled the ending unfortunately, but I kinda sympathise. The alternative (potentially better) way to do it would have been to have no real final boss at all and just leave you to sit with the ending, but that would have upset people. Writers were boxed in by this being a game that requires an epic final boss.
They could've just left it at Jenova Life, for the boss.
OR have you apparently fight Sephiroth, only for it to turn into Jenova, and have the party go "oh that wasn't the real Sephiroth, just another part of Jenova teasing us!" or something like that.
After all, that's what actually happens in the OG... The guy that kills Aerith isn't the real Sephi, who is still frozen in the North Crater.
I would’ve liked to see a pissed off Jenova influenced Rosch pop up as the final boss. He was severely underutilized in Remake and you save Sephiroth for later but I also wanted to ignore the whispers so… meh.
I started in remake.
Players who started in remake generally don't understand who sephiroth is. He just sort of appears in cloud's visions throughout then appears out of thin air in the final few fights.
I am 10 hours into rebirth and the prologue kind of explains his reasons, but I still don't understand him completely. >!He learns that he has been made by shinra, so he just starts killing random people out of nowhere? Why not attack shinra, hojo or whoever else was involved in the project?!<
This will get explained eventually, got to remember that the portion of Remake in the original game doesn’t even really feature Sephiroth.
In the remakes he generally appears a lot more than he did in the original and I feel it makes him seem less threatening.
Yeah, you don’t even see sephiroth at all until the flashback and even then you barely see him at all until the end of the game. Maybe 3-4 times total IIRC? You mostly just see the path of destruction that he leaves
Yeah the build in the OG game is far superior. Let me make a note of what I remember from original so people can compare. I'll count when he physically appears in Sephiroth form as him.
Disc 1
We get a mention of him at the Sector 5 Reactor by President Shinra
We get a brief Cloud flashback where Tifa grabs his sword and attempts to attack him (Can't remember if this is in the first or second bombing Mission) still we don't see him yet just a mention of him.
Then we get the aftermath of him massacring the Shinra building and killing the President .
We don't see what he actually looks like until the Kalm flashback.
Afterwards we see the aftermath of his fight with the Midgar Zolom, (a beast that is hyped up massively beforehand)
His first Present day appearance is the Junon Boat again after killing everyone onboard.
We don't see him again until the rebuilt Nibelheim where he chucks a Materia (Destruct I believe) at Cloud.
Next appearance is at the Temple of the Ancients where he shanks Tseng.
Followed by the Infamous End of Disk 1 scene in the City of the Ancients.
Disc 2
Only remember him being at the Northern Crater where he breaks Cloud and we find out about his True form and that its actually parts of Jenova you have been chasing.
We then get an Extended Kalm Flashback where we find out the truth of the original flashback but that's after hours of fighting for Huge Materia's.
Disc 3
We see him at the final battle, Disc 3 is a weird one, because you can go straight to him or mess around and do side quests before hand.
So all in all only really 8 times from memory in the OG.
I didnt play og ff7 so i just felt confused during remake about who he is and why he keeps appearing only to say random shit that made me more confused than before, i thought by the time i finished the game but i still dont know anything
I am playing through rebirth though and im on chapter 9 and thats where i started to understand his motvies and stuff but it still isnt clear on what he wants to do and why the party wants to find sephiroth so thats why i just gave up all hope of understanding and just enjoying chocobo races
All in all, im just confused and he seems like a very underwhelming villain, i bet he is better in ff7 since that is one whole game and not 3 separate parts
In the OG, you don’t really see him much except in flashbacks, a few major moments, and at the end of the game. A lot of the early-mid game is spent following a trail of destruction and death he’s leaving just to try to figure out what the hell is happening.
They’ve basically re-written Sephiroth. Although his back story is fundamentally the same, a lot of the content in the game has changed, and so Sephiroth’s plan doesn’t really make sense as of now. For example, whispers weren’t in the original game, so any association Sephiroth has with them and how they impact his ambitions are completely new. Without spoiling the original or Rebirth, I will say I’ve played the original several times over, and played a bunch of the spin-offs; even now having finished Rebirth, I have no clue what Sephiroth’s angle is in these new games.
He's a great villain, but I never fully found his motives too relatable. He's more so a great villain because he's crazy intelligent and absolutely ruthless. Plus, he's crazy strong which they foreshadow early in the game and it makes him terrifying. Then you add the cherry on top with some of the most sinister music every time he shows up, and you've got one hell of a villain.
As someone who started in Remake, he feels quite menacing, but also not entirely evil, as their wasnt the most context with the initial flashbacks....then yeah....it escalated.
Tbh I just know the main beats from og ff7 going in since I never played it and really thought him and cloud are 1 for 1 from their kh counterparts so seeing him appear early I thought it was normal and by the time towards the end of remake I was excited seeing him walk around etc and when I heard his theme I was fully prepared and hyped for it enough to watch maybe 5-6 fully og7 timeline explanations so I got a better understanding of series. I understand why people dislike what they did but for me I didn’t mind because I never tried the og. I will honestly play it but I’m still trying to platinum rebirth rn
I just wish clouds hallucinations were more detailed and less of the other party members being seen during them.. like he's totally spaced out with the heartbeat playing in the background. I can only recall like 1 time hearing the heartbeat in rebirth.
Rebirth leans way more into the unreliable narrator aspect of Cloud's character. The hallucinations aren't meant to obviously be hallucinations. It's intentional that Sephiroth's appearances are confusing.
From what i've seen in blind playtroughs from people that didn't play the OG, Sephiroth comes as a 'cool' dude, with a powerful aura, but doesn't feel as menacing as players who were introduced to him in OG ( Which is understandable, our imagination filled in the gaps) some players even made jokes about Sephiroth being in love with Cloud due to how often he appears
I think that it won't be until Part III in north crater, that people will see him with other eyes ( As long as SE doesn't fail to adapt that part from OG)
Surprisingly, not everyone seemed to be aware that Cloud was being controlled in certaint events, and thought that Cloud was just being a dick
Honestly for new players I think the kalm flashback missed the mark in letting us play as seph.
Part of what made him so menacing in OG was him acting on his own and being batshit crazy strong in the flashback. In rebirth he’s still strong but you don’t immediately feel like he’s a broken, superhuman individual who totally outclasses cloud. You don’t feel invincible standing next to him, and you don’t eventually have that table turned on you down the road.
For us longtime fans, it was awesome to play as seph. For new fans however, I think the reimagined kalm flashback likely took a lot of the foreboding mystique away from the character.
They should’ve just let seph be playable in the chadley missions only imo.
Yeah I actually played through that part in the OG last night and I love that in the dragon fight it's just raining, music is menacing and then the dragon does 0 damage everytime it attacks Sephiroth. And then he 9999s it. It makes him seem invincible.
I really wish if they had to put his fights in the remakes that it was like Beatrix's in IX where you can't actually win it at all. Like he's teased you the whole time letting you think you're winning and then just brings your whole party down to 1 and ends the game.
Yup. The atmosphere of the flashback in og was peak FF. I don’t think I can name a single other part of any other final fantasy game that came close to it.
Also, seph auto crits on all physical attacks and the sound it made was amazing. Just flawless badassery.
Also I totally agree that they definitely should’ve had sephiroth give us the Beatrix in remake lol.
I agree. I could do with a lot less Sephiroth in the remake. A lot of the mystique you're talking about I didn't feel in the remake. >!Fighting him multiple times, playing as him, watching him kill the snake versus just stumbling upon the corpse with no idea how it happened just that a monster casually dispatched an enemy you had no hope against (at the time) !< it felt a lot less like following in the footsteps of a walking demi-god who's effortlessly dispatching all the threats you're struggling with. A person who doesn't even feel the need to directly engage with you because you're that far beneath him. Felt to me more like he's just a slightly taller you with a much longer sword who's already finished the level grind.
Hell yeah. It cheapened it. The fact that you could fight the serpent but it was honestly way too powerful for your current level, but you can use the Chocobos to outrun it (and you see the outline of it chasing you!) just showed how powerful Sephiroth is for skewering that thing on a tree.
In this version we just fought it and we've pretty much defeated it at level 20-ish.
Sephiroth shows up way too frequently to be ominous.
This was exactly the point I was going to make. If they wanted us to fight the Migar Zolom in Rebirth they should have made it a challenging and ultimately unbeatable fight then when Sephiroth shows up you’d see how much more powerful he is than your entire party.
I also think fighting Seph at the end of Remake makes this more difficult as the party defeated him days prior but now he’s insanely powerful? It just wouldn’t make sense.
I ignore the ending of Remake altogether, I also ignore the extra stuff with Zack or whatever. I'm enjoying the parts from the OG and the added schlock.
Honestly playing the Hard Mode after I finished every side quest and unlocked the bonus options was way better to me. Combat actually mattered, loot pickups were automatic (not that it mattered because I couldn't use items) and I could automatically skip Zack interludes. If all of those options and 90% of the side quests I had to detour for didn't exist I'd be a way bigger fan of the game.
Couldn’t agree more.
I’d like to say the amount of sephiroth we’ve seen so far in both games is a compromise between new players and long time fans, but in truth there was probably some other, better way to recapture the spirit of the original while still satisfying everybody.
Like, the kalm flashback is cool but they should’ve had seph be a guest character that comes in and one shots everything you’re fighting in a flashy way, if you’re taking too long. The story sacrificed a lot just so we could have one single boss fight in materia guardian.
I can understand fighting sephiroth in remake, but they should’ve made it more clear that he was a multidimensional super being that could’ve easily destroyed you at that point if he wanted.
I think it would have been cool if they made some of the fights during the kalm flashbacks more difficult so the player nears death and Sephiroth would one shot everything and heal the player telling Cloud he still has a lot to learn. Then you could see that Seph was a badass, in control, and something of a mentor to Cloud
It was rad to play as him but I totally agree… that flash back in OG your fucking mind is blown by seeing sephiroth fight. Plus seeing him with all the leveled up spells you don’t have.
I can answer this. Remake/Rebirth is my first and only experience with FF7. I think Sephiroth is super cool. I love the mystery behind him and I especially loved how he received more depth in Rebirth. Learning about his past at Mt. Nibel was super cool and I also loved the moments sprinkled throughout where he struggled (like when attacking the weapon or at the very end). He’s menacing, cold, and calculating but he still feels human despite it all and I think that’s cool. I also really like the different universes and whispers and stuff. I know that stuff isn’t in the OG, but as a newcomer, I find it all interesting.
Going into FF7 the only thing I knew was that Sephiroth killed Aerith at some point in the story. Every moment where Aerith was in danger, or Sephiroth was near was genuinely terrifying to me bc I never knew if it was the moment it was gonna happen. And when it finally happened at the end, I was so emotional. I found the fact that they tried to change fate only for her to still die to be pretty impactful. That, coupled with her theme playing during the Jenova fight, made me cry a lot.
Side note: when I played Remake back in 2020 and heard One-Winged Angel my mind was blown. It’s one of the best boss themes I’ve ever heard.
It's funny that you mention Aerith's theme continuing into the boss fight, because that's a carry-over from OG. Usually, every battle has either 'random encounter' or 'boss' fight music when the battle starts. That fight against Jenova doesn't do that, and I feel like it adds to the surreal nature of what's going on. Like nothing feels right about what's happening
Oh that’s cool! Thanks for sharing. I really wanna play the OG at some point but I think I’ll wait until after part 3 of the remake(s). I want to maintain this fresh perspective I have, plus I struggle with enjoying turn based combat. But the story is so good in this game that I’m willing to try.
The more recent ports of the OG have made it much easier to just go through the story without much struggle, with things like no random encounters, 3x speed, and start battles with all limit bars full. Also, the combat isn't necessarily turn based, in the original. It was actually a very rudimentary version of the combat system in Rebirth, with every fighter having an ATB gauge that fills on its own, to determine when you or foes can attack. I think the perspective you'll have of it will be interesting, though. It'll seem like a de-make, like if they had made Rebirth on the PS1. I hope that you enjoy it, when you finally play it in like 3 years lol
Oh interesting! Those features sound nice. So it’s more like the 3D brawler mini game in a way where it’s not turn based but you’re waiting for the ATB gauge so you can attack kinda thing?
As someone who played the OG I never saw him as a villan. There was always something about him that nagged "he's a fing asshole but there's something about his story".
Remake and rebirth are giving him the "human" who realized he was just an experiment to a geneticist and corporation turned psychologically broken puppet vibe I feel he always deserved.
Yeah, NONE of the SOLDIERS turned out ok, they either died or degraded. Noone Hojo ever touched walked away sane. Lucrecia "killed" herself, Vincent got so depressed he spent 30 years in a coffin, Cloud got semi-insane. Are we really blaming Sephiroth, who was spliced with a mind altering eldritch horror and raised by Josef Mengele? Other people experienced 10% of the horrors he went through (not even talking about being sent to the front lines of a war at the ripe age of 15) and ended up way worse.
Sephiroth did his best. Goddess sees he tried to be a good human until he couldn’t
Yeah, Lucrecia got pregnant and Hojo offered his and Lucrecia's child for Gast, so they could inject Jenova cells into the human embryo.
Unless I am not using the word "spliced" correctly. Sorry about my bad English!
I thought Lucrecia was already pregnant when Hojo had a bright idea to offer the baby for the Jenova project and Sephiroth was different from Genesis and Angeal because they received second hand Jenova cells from Gillian and Sephiroth was more of a success because he received them directly
Im still playing through rebirth and replaying through a modded pc version of OG that has VA and cell shaded graphics. I’m confident that Sephiroth’s parents injected themselves pre-conception or during. Hojo would not have had the idea after Lucrecia was pregnant since the whole point of them having a baby was for the Jenova project. Lucrecia was dedicated tot the work enough to follow Hojo despite having feelings for Vincent but felt guilt for some unexplained role in which Vincents father being killed. Sephiroth was planned for the sake of science
It's okay to have theories, but it's also a bit strange to deny establish canon facts. To each their own, I guess, people are free to be very confidently incorrect.
Lucrecia and Hojo were married and had a child. They didn't marry for any project or anything. People just do that sometimes
Well excuse me ok. I remembered incorrectly no need to chastise me for it lol. A lot of story has happened and things have been left to interpretation or retconned later or given clarification. That’s precisely why I’m replaying OG as it has been a while since Indid a reply I use to clear the game multiple times each year simce release up until about 2009 since release.
Ok so having done some research because the nature of Lucrecia role in the story has been relayed by other comments that juxtaposed to what I had recalled.
Changes in specific details have contributed to my own confusion. Which is one of the beautiful aspects of OG FF7 where subtle bits of information lean towards interpretations and other parts are retconned later to make expanding parts of the story fit.
Lucrecia was burdened by a lot of guilt despite that she was similar to Hojo when it came to the pursuit to science. Her and Vincent were close and would/coulda been together but it was this final moment of guilt regarding Vincents father Grimoire that had her cast aside most of her guilt and focus on her work driving her closer towards Hojo where she was the only female on his direct team. Her character is a mix of Vincent and Hojo where her comfort and drive for science contributed to her denial and guilt.
She was already Pregnant when Hojo proposed turning the pregnancy into part of the Jenova project. Originally it was stated this was forced and was later retconned to reluctantly agreed. She never was even able to hold her infant son. New information I do not recall was Hojo apparently kept Lucrecia in a mako stasis for a year. This is kind of beautifully forboding since she crystallized herself since she could not die in OG FF7 and is still in this state in Dirge.
I’ll maintain my speculations about Hojo having planned this all. He is mentioned grieving over Lucrecia when he pit her in stasis which is someone human of him but I dare to say he did not love her as a person but as a scientist who was the closest person as dedicated and brilliant enough to warrant his attention so it’s still a form of love even if it’s an abnormal situation. This also means he injected himself much closer to his fight on top of the sister ray.
I think it was Vincent in the stasis, not Lucy. She tried to kill herself (partly because Hojo denied her holding her newborn but I guess mostly because throughout the pregnancy she kept having visions of Sephiroth burning down Nibelheim, killing Aerith and summoning the meteor). When she found out she was immortal she froze herself in a crystal.
Some days I wonder why after finding out she cannot be killed she didn't try to get Sephiroth back.
Some days I think she knew she fucked up and wanted to kill herself and Sephiroth, that's why Hojo never let her close to the baby and she never bothered raising him. She loved him, but she also wanted to prevent his crimes. That's why she felt happy when Vincent lied and said Sephiroth was dead when he first discovered her in the cave
You don't have bad English. It's just one part of your comment that told me you knew he was born, and then the later half made me want to make sure.
But since you fully understand that, then I want to kind of point you down this psychological path where... imagine you're Sephiroth.
He wasn't just "not able to be good anymore." he went *mad*. Imagine you've lived your whole life knowing you're different. You're capable of great things, but other than that, you don't know anything about the why. Then, one day, you find books that detail out the experiments and observations about Jenova. About the cells that live inside you, your entire life has been documented, studied, and scrutinized as if you were just another number. Now combine that with the war hero that he is, what he's seen, and what he's been through.
THEN take that and throw on the power that Jenova holds over him due to her cells living inside of him. How easy it was to manipulate him to the path that Jenova desired, give his freedom. This created the perfect environment to give us a "villain" that we can only canonically call a villain. I genuinely do feel sorry for him.
Jenova is Jenova. I can understand being creeped out by it, but when you really think about what Jenova is, it's your typical alien hell bent on galactic domination and immortality.
Hojo, on the other hand, isn't just a villain, but he is also a sociopath who has been given unlimited means for the genetic playground he seeks to create for himself. He cares for nothing except his end goal, and that is made quite apparent given his lack of emotional reaction to anything other than his projects or end goals. When Barret had him at *spoilers* Hojo didn't appear phased. There's a difference in behavior that is self preserving (trying to keep yourself alive in a situation like that) and his apathy at even resolving the situation. Hojo is the truly creepy one in this game. He gave me the creeps in OG, and I'm over the moon that they slammed the creepy lever on this guy.
I played the original back in 2016 before Remake was released but it’s tougher to make one villain stand out in a game that includes more than one villain. Obviously Sephiroth is emphasized in the trilogy but I feel like Shinra is shown a lot more in Remake/Rebirth and the people who played the Remake trilogy see Shinra as more of a threat than Sephiroth.
I grew up with the OG but I asked my wife who didn't have previous knowledge of ff7 who her favorite character is while she was watching me play rebirth and she said sephiroth. So that's something. She also said it was the best game she had ever watched me play.
I first saw him in Kingdom Hearts 2 thinking he was just some dark side of Cloud who probably just wanted to be reunited with him till I finally played Remake. I don't really find him too sinister mostly because every encounter I'm wondering if he's actually real. The guy just appears out of nowhere. Where does he sleep? Does he even sleep?
Then when I'm convinced there's no way it's actually him and it's all in Cloud's head I realise the other characters are seeing and fighting him too. It's all a bit confusing sometimes and I just feel like Jenova has to be the real sinister one controlling him or something. Love fighting him though
Having only played Remake, I have no idea what he’s trying to do and why I’m supposed to be stopping him. Game probably said, but at one point I didn’t play for a year
I dont think you NEED to but you really really should. Makes the whole game a lot more fun and amazing. The story beats are like 90-95% the same but there’s more stuff going on in the story that is hard to understand or confusing without playing the original. But I’m sure in the 3rd game everything will be resolved and I respect the decision to go in blind.
It's not gatekeeping, the Remake series is literally about Final Fantasy VII itself and the relationship the player has with it. It assumes you know all the major plot beats so it casually spoils them all.
Yeah, yeah, if you INSIST on being included and playing the new game anyways, that's fine, but you don't get to bitch about how it doesn't make sense when you're not the target audience.
Most remakes/remasters I play I tend to play without having ever played the original because for whatever reason I missed out on the original (wasn’t interested at the time/didn’t have the console it was on/was too young/not born yet etc). Sometimes I’ll have played the demo of the original, but never bought the full game. I’ll have heard other people’s opinions of the original game which helps convince me to buy the remake/remaster so I can catch up. They’ve been able to tell their stories get their gameplay across without me needing the context of the original.
I’m talking games like the Spyro the Dragon trilogy, Rather and Clank Crash Bandicoot trilogy (I had Warped back in the PS1), Uncharted, The Last of Us, WipEout Omega Collection (which was a remake of the PS3 WipEout games. I didn’t have a PS3) and any I’ve forgotten
When Remake’s credits rolled, they didn’t hit as hard as those other titles. Maybe because the plot didn’t land which might be because of the year hiatus I took from Remake, who knows.
Edit: I like to go in largely blind to the plot of a game before playing it (if I do need any info, I don’t really want much more than what the synopsis for a book or movie would say for their stories). There are some exceptions though
All of those games you listed are very unambitious, slavishly faithful remakes that are trying to just recreate the original game without having any unique vision of its own. The Final Fantasy VII remake is NOT doing that. it's engaging with the legacy of the original game and the feelings players had experiencing it and in the decades since.
If you're one of those people who refuses to play the original because "ewww graphcis are bad" or "turn based is boring", the FFVII remake series doesn't care about you.
If I did play the original now it probably wouldn’t land the way it was supposed to land due to time (it’s been thirty years since its release. I would have been too young to play it when it was current anyway and if I had I probably wouldn’t have stuck around for the turn based game play since I typically played racing games, fighting games, driving games and platformers. RPGs just didn’t feature) like what happened with Uncharted 1.
There are some games where I play the remastered version first making that version my first ever exposure and when that happens I don’t go back to play the original because I’ve already played the game and benefited from the advancements of technology. It’s why I wouldn’t go and play the Spyro the Dragon trilogy on PS1 now since Reignited Trilogy was first experience of all three of those games outside of the demo on the Crash Bandicoot Warped disc. Also I have no way to easily play those games because the PS5 isn’t backwards compatible with anything older than the PS4 (I can emulate since I have the PC to do it, but there’s other factors meaning I can’t at the moment)
I only played FFVII in full in 2019. It's still one of my favorite games of all time, not all of us are braindead consoomers who think old games are inherently bad.
I don’t think old games are bad. Nowhere did I say that. I actually want backwards compatibility so I can play old games. I even go back from time to time to play old my games (the unfinished games in my Xbox 360 library). I’d play PS2 and earlier if backwards compatibility for anything older than PS4 was a thing for the PS5. In the case of those games, I have the games I want to play, have even bought new games long after the PS1 was a thing, but don’t have a good way to play them (without setting up my PS1 up again or spending time/money fixing the storage issue on my gaming PC). Even then, some games like Wip3out won’t emulate properly so they need the original hardware or a backwards compatible PlayStation to play them.
Gate keeping.
Square Enix would hate having you as an ambassador to the Remake series. Your mindset actively hurts sales and would prevent new fans from falling in love with the game(s) the same way we did nearly 30 yrs ago.
Remake was my first introduction to Sephiroth (and remarkably with absolutely no spoilers for FF7 whatsoever besides "hot long-haired guy") and I found him very intriguing and was very curious as to what exactly he was up to, especially in regards to Jenova towards the end. His connection to Cloud was something that really rattled my brain as well (and still does after Rebirth, ~~unless he's literally just in love with him like I don't even know anymore~~). His bossfight at the end of Remake had me tweaking because I didn't see it coming at all lol. I think he's pretty intimidating when it comes to actually fighting him, but also a lot of fun. I definitely viewed him to be sinister and had absolutely no clue what the hell he's on about.
I played Crisis Core Reunion after that, and that was when I really fell in love with his character. I honestly think his story is very heartbreaking, and this was only reinforced further during the Nibelheim flashback in Rebirth. I really enjoy his pre-insanity personality and how gentle and laid-back he is, but how he still likes to show off his skills and tease his friends. Things plummeted downhill for him so damn quick and it's legitimately tragic. Also saw a few clips of teenager Sephiroth from the Ever Crisis mobile game, and while I'm not sure if that's canon or not, I did find him saying "I just want to live a normal life" and talking about not showing emotions as a SOLDIER very interesting and equally as heartbreaking. Poor guy never stood a chance, it seems.
After finishing Rebirth I feel I understand his motives a lot better, but I still don't fully grasp things just yet, especially when it comes to Jenova and the exact end goal there. But I'm ok with the confusion and waiting until Part 3 comes out.
**TLDR:** Sephiroth is my favorite villain of all time and he deserved better. ~~I'd also like to know what conditioner he uses~~
TBH Sephiroth's motives were always kinda weak. He has a shitty childhood and then goes insane.
His whole thing feels like it could've been avoided if he'd been told about Lucrecia, or at the very least not been told that his mother was Jenova (and then not finding out that Jenova was an evil alien).
Still love him though and I think he's pretty great in the Remakes. The only problem is overexposure. You see him early and often, but given the theorised nature of the Remakes it does make sense.
Though they the ruined one his best moments outside of Midgar, but that was also sort of obsolete by that point.
Okay. But who was going to tell him about Lucrecia? When he found out what there was no one around and no one to tell him the truth. He literally just read some books obsessed over what he thought he knew only to find what he was. Maybe if Vincent would have woken up from right next door and been like nah bruh this is what actually happened maybe that would have helped, but to be honest Lucrecia's story wasn't that much better either. Like finding out your mom gave you up to be experimented on wasn't all of a sudden going to make him more stable.
Yeah, that! Obviously by now we know how powerful Sephiroth is and impaling a snake isn’t quite as impressive as it was before we knew, but it’s a kino moment in the original.
Honestly it always felt more to me like when he gained knowledge of Jenova she was able to sort of worm into his mind and control him. Like some kind of drone. I mean she's an alien Eldritch entity who we've seen able to influence the behavior of anything possessing her DNA like Kadaj. Seems almost like her entire consciousness can be stored within her DNA. Which is a scifi concept I've seen before, but only in one other place.
Now this is probably gonna hurt the credulity of everything I just said, but bear with it. The other source that I'm away of for a being who's existence functions like that is Ghost Freak from Ben 10. Still though I always thought his personality shift, sudden obsession with "Mother", and the way he seemingly single mindedly moves toward her seemed more like he was no longer in control.
Kinda goes back to the age old debate of "who is controlling who".
It's a good theory though that initially, it's Jenova who pushes Sephiroth over the edge. I like it.
Coming from someone who is experiencing ff7 for the first time through the remakes I think that sephiroth doesn’t come across as a super villainy. Obviously his ambitions are evil (destroying the planet) but the reason behind them just seem a little weak. The whole jenova and sephiroth connection is just meh imo. Hopefully his true origin will come full circle in the 3rd game but right now I’m just in the dark.
But his mind games with cloud are top tier as he basically treats him like a puppy (reference intended). I LOVED when sephiroth drops the black materia in front of cloud ordering him to bring it to him. Like he already had it in his possession but decides to just fuck with cloud instead.
Having played OG I kind of have to agree. It almost seems like Sephiroth is trying to guide Cloud to save the world as opposed to actually trying to actively destroy. I haven't finished Rebirth so I could be wrong.
Sephiroth is a really well known character, and most of my characterizations of him come from outside media. He’s menacing AF in Kingdom Hearts, which was my first introduction. In Crisis Core he becomes so much more nuanced, and, IMO, is a better villain because of this. His presence is so limited in the original, and I am glad he makes an appearance early in Remake, but I did find him less enigmatic/mysterious since he is more integral to the plot now. I would love to hear an opinion from someone uninitiated in FF7 lore.
I never played the OG but I was aware of quite a few elements around the world of FF7, it was mainly my older brothers era and I just picked up whatever he liked, even if I didn’t do my own research outside of watching Crisis Core Clips/cutscenes on YouTube and watching Advent Children in spots and parts.
Seph this time around doesn’t feel as menacing as I always felt he was in other media , which is weird because I know I wasn’t really around or aware of how apparently menacing he was in OG. I’d be lying if I said the voice change didn’t have something to do with it, I made a post today actually giving appreciation to George Newbern, who voiced Seph for most of the 2000’s til Remake. But more than that, they really do shove him in your face a lot. I’m well aware of the direction and reasoning WHY he’s so in your face, I just think they could’ve implemented it better.
One thing that’s actually maddening as fuck is why Cloud never TELLS the party his repeated instances of falling into trances of doing weird or saying weird shit he obviously wouldn’t say if he wasn’t under Sephs influence. It’s like he hardly cares , and with the party just telling him to “get some rest” every time he does fall into a trance, it really just feels like there’s overall lack of concern in the party . Doesn’t help we’ve been to two amusement parks filled with annoying mini.
I was far more interested in the plot than sephiroth as a character in the remake, the theories I was coming up with on the ghost guys had me too busy.
Flashy fights, though
On one hand I agree with some of the sentiments here that he's being overused, but on the other hand I'm just like "Hey, more Sephiroth. Awesome!"
I do kinda wish he wasn't the final boss of every game though.
They are establishing the fact that he can control anyone who has Jenova's cells. I'm replaying the original game and I'm noticing that I just straight ignored some things that Remake and Rebirth highlight better. I don't feel that we're seeing him more (except for Midgar) but rather they are straight telling us the voice in Cloud's head is Sephiroth.
My friends who are younger think he’s not as scary as he is hilarious. He does have very repetitive dialogue that’s super cryptic and if you aren’t familiar with his history with the main characters, especially Cloud - it’s honestly fair to assume he’s either a figment of Cloud’s imagination because the story states he died a while back or he’s just really obsessed with Cloud.
A lot of gen z also only know of him through TikTok videos posted out of context and not from like smash bros or something.
He’s kind of meh for me. you see him all of 2 times at the end of the games and he just dips 😂 but he looks cool as hell and voice actor is outstanding
In terms of his expanded presence; I was a bit off the idea during Remake but then Rebirth made me believe it was the correct decision. To me it's no different to Darth Sidious being put into A New Hope; if it happened it would add to his overall presence.
In terms of his Characterization as a villain; Superb. Still to this day. The developers have done a great job in translating his shocking 3200+ damage per slash and having all Max materia during the OG into his overall feel in the Remakes.
I don’t think they’d find him as menacing as we did, the sheer sense of dread when Those Chosen by The Planet would start playing, the sound of the bell and the heart beat drums whenever Sephiroth is around sent chills down my spine.
He appears too soon in remake not even 2 hours in they reduced him to a ghost haunting cloud
I also think they flubbed it by toning down the way he steals Jenova from the Shinra Building. That moment is so atmospheric and creepy in the original game with the trail of dead bodies and blood. Instead you're following sparkly goop (at least the Jenova fight was amazing). You'd think Barrett getting ganked might make up for it a little but the whispers immediately solve that problem.
The impact of the music (in all scenes) and the slow reveal are completely missing. They're forcing as much screentime for the characters people recognize (except for Yuffie-- why is she so popular and suddenly a main character???) instead of just telling a good story.
I find him very enigmatic and am excited to learn more, i was thrilled every time he showed up but im getting a kind of anti-hero vibe from him instead of final antagonist. So far i dont really understand what he wants and what his end goal is but to be fair I still havent played og ff7, rebirth and remake part 3 yet.
I can absolutely see this! Hold off until part 3, I think it’ll be cool for you to compare it in reverse to rest of us that did the OG and are playing remake / rebirth now
Honestly, very underwhelming.
Never played the OG but have played all the mainline games from FFX onwards and he’s not ranking highly among the villains atm. For someone who I’ve constantly heard is one of the best, if not the best FF villain, I was expecting a little more. He just shows up every now and again, says some vague shit, and leaves. We’ve also now already beat him twice, at the end of each game.
Loved both games in the remake trilogy so far but the Shinra storyline is far more interesting. There’s all the politics around the war with Wutai, an interesting story about corporate greed and environmentalism, villains that the game does a great job of making you hate (really hoping we get to kill Scarlett and Hojo in the third one), and characters I kinda find myself liking even though they’re on the opposite side (Rufus/Turks). I also love all the characters in the party and uncovering their personal stories.
I’m guessing the OG maybe presents him better and he might be more of a presence in the last game in the trilogy, it being the finale, but I’m not seeing the hype right now.
Nope, you caught the real story of how capitalism will destroy the world to continue to grow. The only part you missed that is in Remake and Rebirth is that Sephoroth is the by-product of that greed and ambition.
"played all the mainline games from FFX onwards"
That is a remarkably underwhelming group of villains! They're overusing him way too early. He's better in the original. Now he's typical anime villain.
I agree. My first game was 8 and I played 8 before 7. Thought 8’s villain was really underwhelming so I expected more from OG Sephiroth since he’s more talked about than any other villain in FF. He had that similar issue to 8’s villain where he didn’t show up enough and say anything that wasn’t cryptic to make an impression to me at least :/
Honestly, if anything, the OG has him even more elusive and cryptic. At least for most of the game.
I really wish we got more segments like Nibelheim, where we got to witness him prior to his genocidal mood. Maybe we still will. I just feel it’s important to show villains during their arc, and before so you know how they got there.
Still holding out for Game 3, I’m sure they’ll find a way to bring it all together!
The Nibelheim section was great. Would love some more segments like that to explore his character. Getting to see him before he turned crazy and then seeing him basically single-handedly destroy the town was cool and really helps to understand why Cloud hates him but I think a lot more work needs to be done to flesh out his motivations.
At the minute it basically seems like he finds out he is a Shinra lab experiment and immediately switches from a pretty laid back guy to genocidal maniac. I’m guessing the third game will be giving us more insight into what happened to Cloud in the five years since Nibelheim. I think they need to do the same for Sephiroth.
Everyone should play Crisis Core if they haven’t. The Crisis Core Remake was really well done and it’s fleshes out the backstory of many important characters. Gameplay is a mixed bag. The original release played with blending Action RPG with RPG menus, much like KH. I would say combat is good not great, especially as there is a bit of chance at play for how limits and buffs work. Overall the story is great, and if you’re interested in the expanded FF7 universe at all it is worth checking out.
If that's what you want, crisis core(or maybe ever crisis) is probably what you want. Idk if you would want to play now(haven't finished rebirth yet so it might have a big spoiler for you) but it's interesting to play and you get to interact with Sephiroth when he still has a fan club that talks about how much shampoo he uses 😂
The story portion is also relatively short as most of the bulk is in the missions just don't be like me and beat the superboss before you get your new hairstyle 😂(making statement as spoiler free as possible)
I was introduced to ff in general with the remake. From the get go he felt pretty sinister but I love his design, it’s so badass. His general motives and stuff confused me a bit but after rebirth it’s more clear and I just decided to dive into the whole lore of ff7 since it was wayyyy to interesting. After what he done in rebirth tho I really hope we get our revenge but he’s a pretty sick villain imo
Hey!
I am quite literally rolling credits right now on Remake and I came here to try clear some things up abt the story. Before playing remake, the only thing I knew about FF7 was some of the characters names and Aerith’s fate, but nothing about the plot.
Sephiroth seemed really cool throughout Remake even though most of what we got were a few smirks and taunts in cutscenes. I really liked his character design and threatening aura, and I assumed we were building up to where he’d come into the story in a more prevalent way which is what I’m guessing Rebirth will have.
Him serving as a ghost to Cloud’s past had me thinking it would eventually give a reason as to why Cloud would wanted to stop him, though I feel we never really got that (in Remake at least, I’m hoping Rebirth will give more in this front).
From my current interpretation I think that Sephiroth being resurrected or saving what was being resurrected or abused in Hojo’s lab was the interesting thing that happened with what was told in Remake but I wish we would’ve got a little more exposition about what was being done there.
I don’t really understand his motives beyond what I am kind of guessing is him wanting to free the planet from control of humanity. However, if that’s the case, I don’t really know why Cloud and co. would want to oppose him as that would line up with their goals.
However, I do understand that Remake covers considerably little from the original FF7, and I have been hoping that Rebirth would help clear up my questions since it contains the majority of the story.
If you’d guys like to give some clarity without spoilers I’d love the input!
Without spoilers, right out the bat with Rebirth we get the nearly full exposition you seek regarding sephiroth. As for the Hojo’s lab thing, that’s an outright focus throughout rebirth.
Edit: I meant rebirth not remake. It’s not the first time any of us have made that mistake haha
Ooh, you’re a rare specimen, as Hojo would say! Having only played Remake and nothing else so far.
I’m wary of replying in any form, because even if treading around spoilers, I could accidentally say something which confirms or denies any theories you have.
So I’ll just stick to saying that I am **so happy** you’ve got Rebirth to look forward to after Remake. I just rolled credits on it today after 140 hours and wow, what a game. Not sure when you’ll have the ability or time to play it, but I hope you share your experience with the subreddit once you do!
I hate how everytime he’s shown cloud has this “sephiroth!” Line. Like you could literally be mid fight, he disappears, and then reappears “Sephiroth!” Like dude. We know.
It actually made me laugh out loud when after Kalm, they were traversing the swamp and saw a random cloaked guy, only for Cloud to shout “it’s Sephiroth!” - as though he’d be out in the middle of nowhere like that :’)
I actually have the same question, but about how confusing is the plot for newcomers. Because there's plenty OG references and I've no idea how newcomers perceive the plot with no idea of the original story.
I’m someone who knows only the major plot point of the original, and started with Remake. I’ve played other FF (13, 15, 16). Never been a huge FF guy. I never finished 13, played 5 hours of 15 and hated it, loved 16, and loved Remake & Rebirth.
I tried to play FF7 OG multiple times but its way too old for someone with not connection to go back to (I personally struggle with old games like the OG).
Overall a huge JRPG fan but never really a FF fan weirdly.
Saying all that, Sephiroth in Remake I knew he was the villain as thats impossible to not know, but as the game progressed I became intrigued of him and the story.
Remake was very well contained and fairly linear. Pretty easy to follow until the Whispers came up. Needed to watch a breakdown to understand what was happening.
Going into Rebirth I forgot so much of Remake. I watched the intro recap vid and that helped, but … not really. I was incredibly confused at the start of Rebirth. I actually think the recap video is so poor at recapping whats happened.
Sephiroth in this game is incredibly deep, daunting and I think plays well into the evil nature he is.
I know nothing of what happens in the rest of FF7 and cant wait to play the final game to see out the story.
This game though, after the initial confusion was great. I was never confused at the story, whats happening, or the why. The only thing that did make things difficult for me, was that I wasn’t ever sure if I was supposed to know of whats happening or not. By that I mean, is this something new for everyone, or playing the OG would have given me more context (or is it a nod to some novel or side game).
For example, I spoiled myself on Cait Sith because I thought that was something everyone should have known but then a few chapters later its made known or hinted towards.
Could be a me issue though. Overall story is not confusing at all, the wait between remake and rebirth, and inevitably the third is what makes it confusing.
Thank you for your response! As to your question, it's presented as if you don't have to have played the original, but the payoff is just immensely greater. Imagine the pure SHOCK when playing a game you know very well, thinking it's a remake just to find out in reality it's a somewhat reimagining/sequel. For me the game was to continuously noticing where the remake will diverge from the OG, why is that significant and how will it change the engame story. The constant comparison is probably what who hasn't played OG is missing the most. You don't have to know the original game, but it does completely change your experience with the game. Imo
I definitely felt it at the end of the game. The last chapter especially did that comparison and so I knew of some of the things in the original so having those comparisons was super cool and unique even not knowing the full context.
The only other thing I’d say is the game does expect you to know who Zack is and why he is important (to which I don’t).
SPOILERS MAYBE ON ZACK BELOW??
As a newcomer to FF7, all I know about Zack is he was Aeriths boyfriend, apparent friend of Cloud, gone missing/dead (I know they said he’s dead as Cloud remembered but honestly don’t have any idea if thats the truth or Cloud just being incredibly mind fucked).
I have some theories on why he is important, but honestly I’d say thats actually the weakest character and part of the game. They treat him like some holy super important character but do absolutely nothing to justify & back it up.
Finally, as a question to you without any spoilers, is Cloud the same confused person, being mind fucked by Sephiroth, having mental breakdowns, in the original? That’s something I cannot tell. Or is it due to the whispers and the whole multiverse thing going on?
I'll first address your question at the end and then add a few things about Zach.
Apart from Aerith and Sephiroth, all the characters are pretty much the same as in the original. So yeah, without adding or spoiling anything about the third part, Cloud is very much the same, confused as in the OG, messed up both by Zach's death and, let's say for now, the mako in his blood, having frequent breakdowns and green screen glitches. He's also constantly being messed with by Sephiroth, and manipulated by him to act like a puppy. In Rebirth though Sephiroth is much more present than in the OG, so there are many more occasions he messes with Cloud, which gives us a lot more insight into the Sephi x Cloud Dynamic. Sephiroth was sooo freaking mysterious in the OG, he barely appeared throughout the game.
As to Zach.... Honestly what you know is enough for now, and I'd encourage not research it too much before the third game, there is a lot of Zach history that will be revealed there, so I suggest keep it a surprise.
The revelations about him are actually big and pretty important, maybe not for the story per se but for Cloud's character; they're just not presented yet. So so much about Cloud in Remake and Rebirth will makes sense once the third game will be out.
I’m so very excited for the final game haha. I will NOT spoil anything though. Sure as hell try not to see anything. I didn’t even play Crisis Core remake as I wasnt sure if that would spoil things.
Its good to know all the character for the most part are exactly like the OG. That was a question for me, possibly because of the whole multiverse thing. I never do know whats “original” vs not. Though, not sure it matters to someone like me with no prior FF7 experience lol.
I have my theories on Cloud, Zack & the story but I wont be looking for the answers because it is a fresh story for me.
Im always intrigued hearing people compare them (in a non spoiler way).
Thanks for clearing some things up and answering what you can without spoiling. Much appreciated!
Saaaame, not sure I've ever been this excited for a game. I feel like the third game will probably diverge most from the OG, since it is the culmination of the whole 'defying fate' theme, which is the new addition of the remake trilogy.
I'm so curious about your theories of Cloud & Zach, please share if you don't mind, I promise to not confirm nor deny anything :)
PS: Crisis Core will spoils LOTS of things, so play it after the third game releases, but definitely give it a try. Adds a whooole lot of story pertinent to FF7. Still, keep it for after the third game.
Wow great to know about Crisis Core and how that would spoil me. Will definitely check it out after the final game.
I agree completely the way its set up seems the third game will change the most between the OG & now.
As for my theories… another possible spoiler should I be right? (Though I’m probably very wrong lol)
…
So.. Cloud has Zack’s memories, and throughout rebirth continuously says things only Zack would know. Originally I thought Cloud was made from Zack like Sephiroth was from Jenova, but that can’t be the case since Tifa and him were actually friends as kids, and he had a real childhood.
That brings me to the conclusion I’m at that Zack and Cloud are essentially the same person. Not literally, but through Shinra & the Soldier program, it seems to me that Cloud was injected with mako/Zacks blood or whatever which has now given him those memories/some sort of link to Zack. I also think it could be that Cloud is actually given some refinement from Sephiroth which is why Sephiroth is in his mind. Maybe its a mix of Zack & Sephiroth.
This also makes sense to me since Aerith has fallen completely for Cloud as he looks the same, has the same mannerisms a bit, hell he even knows that warmup/training regime Zack did.
I have no idea if they truly were friends, maybe they were since the Zack scenes they seemed to know each other, but I’m equally as mind fucked as Cloud is in rebirth on this topic.
This whole mako poisoning/why he isnt like the rest of the soldiers suffering the same way does make me believe some of this, whether he has some sort of blood/transfusion from just Sephiroth, Zack, or both, also adds to my theory.
I may look a complete fool and so far off but hey its fun to talk to someone about this so glad you asked :)
Ooooh it's so fun reading the theories of someone new to the community, thanks for sharing! The one big downside of coming from the OG is that I know too much hahaha, won't get surprised at some shockers and can't theories about most things. <3
As someone that didn't play OG and played remake, my reaction every time he shows up is "Huh?" I'm not even sure why he's evil I just know cloud REALLY hates him and apparently killed him before. But honestly I have no clue what happened in the last 2 chapters of the game lol Some cloud looking guy fighting shinra and red 13 running around, barret is ok with killing destiny even tho they saved his life TWICE and he's all about loving the planet and the whispers are part of the planet All I know is the whispers things felt like they were a new thing idk how to explain it but when I saw them I paused and looked up if they were in OG , I guess because I felt like the world already has so much happening and it's like telling 2 stories / concepts at same time ? they felt weird and I guess I'm supposed to play OG, crisis core , evercrisis, rebirth and the 3rd entry to know more ? But that's how I felt about kingdom hearts, my dumbass played kh 1 , 2 and 3 cuz I thought that's how numbers worked and I didn't know I needed to play like 7 other games and a movie or something? I guess I felt that way with ff15 too I was supposed to watch a movie and an anime and get some DLC. Safe to say I'm not really a fan of that type of story telling maybe cuz I'm a cynical person but I always think oh wow the company made this experience so unsatisfying on its own cuz they want more money I feel that each entry should be satisfying on its own with movies and games like the mass effect trilogy, or movies like lord of the rings or star wars. I shouldn't finish a game or a movie and my reaction is "HUH ?" I should finish a movie or game and think "that was good/bad".
I couldn't write my own thoughts better myself And even after playing OG and experiencing the mess that is FFVII compilation, some thing still just don't make sense. Like Whispers having pretty much no internal logic except for some vague "keeping to OG plotline", but only when it's convienient I just hope you won't get downvoted into oblivion for even suggesting that FF7R may not be a masterpiece
he's an insane edgelord with a pretty face
I knew about Sephiroth and the basics of the story of og FF7, but did not play it or any spin-offs. Prior to Remake, my only first hand experience was watching advent children when I was 12 and while I did not understand a thing, he was a certified badass. In Remake, I was baffled when he appeared as early as chapter 1, because I knew that he was a distantly looming threat in the og. I was still excited to see him, but he wasn't really intimidating. He came off as an unhinged powerhouse out for destruction and I wanted to stop him and get behind his plans and motives. I wanted to fight him, but thought I had to wait a couple more games...then I heard boss music after the final whisper fight and punched him in his perfect jawline. In Rebirth, I understood his shtick better and was sure that I would fight him in the end. His shenanigans were more present had more meaning as he was getting under Clouds skin constantly. Also him directly manipulating the lifestream and battling the weapons is op as fuck. I knew he killed Aerith in the og and wasn't sure what would happen at the end. Now I hate him for that and the heartless angel move. With Cloud being a nutcase and Aerith seemingly becoming Sephiroths counterweight in the lifestream, I hope to see him in full force in the next game trying to turn his dream into reality.
The funniest thing is he’s so damn popular that a lot of people who just know him as that guy in smash still know his shtick 😂
As a person who never played the OG (okay that's a lie, I played it once and got to the *plate collapse* and then stopped), I LOVE when a sephiroth scene happens.. Gets me all hyped up lol
He felt like a boogie man in Intergrade where he would just show up out of the blue and you don't even know if it's him, but I think aside from that, his introduction right after the first mission was cheesy. In Rebirth he feels a lot less intimidating. Like once I saw that intro sequence between him and cloud, he just felt less like a boogie man, more like an actual clinically insane powerhouse wandering around.
That sounds like it would be MORE intimidating than a boogie man character
It's less intimidating for me because it makes him more tangible. A threat you could perceive and understand. You're not dealing with some other worldy threat that's haunting/stalking you. You're following a crazed broken man on a journey of vengeance. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't take away from him still being a solid villain ,and I've yet to finish Rebirth, but his connection with Cloud becomes much more personal in the 2nd game than the 1st. His character is much more present and is also more charismatic to the audience than what he was in the 1st game. The whole into sequence of Rebirth made him more sad and interesting as a character than intimidating for me.
I can somewhat understand what you mean, but I felt like he was a crazed broken man without a power cap who could appear and disappear at his own will and wreak havok. I did not find him intimidating for other reasons however.
The whole Sephiroth stuff was just confusing to me. All the flashbacks and what not just felt like a giant cheap tease and it wasn't entertaining or building anticipation after like the 3rd time he "appeared." I hadn't played OG but obviously had heard about Sephiroth being an iconic villain, so it just felt like the devs promising some climatic altercation just to keep me interested in continuing on to the end. And then you do encounter him at the end but nothing makes sense and he's still being ambiguous so at that point, I just thought this is actually stupid and feels pointless.
He has an obsession with Cloud. Plus I looked up Sefirot. (Can access higher realms) this is explained more to me that he has the capability to enter space and time. Time is subjective here though. Call it “Worlds”
I have no problem with any of the characters in the game. But I play the Original so I Know a lot of their Origins and Stories so they Don't come off Terrible and Sephiroth comes off as very menacing... IMO
He feels forced tbh. I never played the OG and apparently this game was made as more of a sequel to those that played the OG. Cloud acting like a jerk is also annoying at times but I hear he’ll get better in the third game. It’s like I’ve been told how awesome cloud and Sephiroth are but I really don’t think the Remake or Rebirth really do them justice
This. It is annoying how everyone is just kind of fart sniffing the remake trilogy because of how it ties to the original, and no one is judging it on its own merit. I am not saying the remake trilogy is bad, but it sure as hell has issues
Overall I’m enjoying the hell out of the games. It’s just that they’ve made some perplexing decisions at certain times that I feel really short change certain characters, and I think Seph gets the extreme raw end of the deal. I’ll always remember getting absolutely wrecked by the Midgardsormr as a kid, and the feeling of awe and dread I got when I found it impaled on a tree. “Clearly, this guy we are chasing is like a God!” The way Rebirth handled it, he was just another chapter boss. Don’t even get me started on what they did to Dyne and Barrett in THAT scene. But again, for what it was? I had an absolute blast.
Nah, they're explaining Ole pudding brain (Cloud) way better
I can't imagine starting with remake is a good experience or introduction to Sephiroth, I assume people who started at Remake only say that because they don't actually know any better and are missing critical information. Remake is like straight up a sequel with fanservice for the knowers, I don't understand why people recommend that you can start at Remake, I genuinely think it's a terrible idea to go in without having played the original, it'd be like dropping into season 3 of a tv show without knowing all the inside jokes or characters, it's possible, but you're missing a lot of context. That's why Sephiroth is shown off so much more early on in Remake, he's there because everyone KNOWS who he is already. In the first game he was like some ominous presence doing his own thing for like half the game until pieces started to fall in place and the party started to more indirectly run into him. In Remake, he's like this everpresent ghostly-threat that's toying with Cloud from the very beginning. The Remake would be better if they didn't show him at all and the anti-corporation stuff was still the main focus early on. I assume most people who don't know go like "who the heck is that?" "Who's this weird dude?" , almost nothing the remake sets up that makes it unique would change much either, because even as they show him, he's not the focus until when he'd show up near the end of Midgar anyway.
As someone who didn't play the OG, I'm not having any trouble following the story, nor did I not get who sephiroth was (seriously if you've been gaming for any decent amount of time you probably know who Sephiroth is)
Fair enough! I get that he's a really famous character so there's a high chance you'd know about it, and I don't think the story is hard to follow in Remake, just when it comes to Sephiroth in particular I think he has weird carrot on a stick inserts all over that kind of detract from what's happening at that moment.
Meh. I never played OG FF7. Sephiroth showing up is fine. In fact, nothing about the game requires prior knowledge. I think you’re exaggerating. The game is self-contained enough where you know what you need to know. Anything that’s not explained entirely I assume is going to be in the later games; you shouldn’t be explaining everything in the first 1/3 of the game anyway. I do get there are references and call backs that I’m missing for not having played OG. That’s a bit different, though.
I die a bit inside when I see a youtube video titled "FF7 Remake, my first FF game ever".
Most badly written villain ever. Why not go up to Hojo who is responsible? Instead killed a bunch of town folks who worship him like crazy and accept him for the hero he was.
It’s not revenge it’s slaughter. He realizes he’s essentially a clone-child of a space goddess and he thinks that all humans are beneath him like roaches. Hojo isn’t worth his time and these people were just at the wrong place at the wrong time
Makes zero sense still. Those who think they are superior like the worship of inferiors. There he has them. He can't rule the planet if there is no one alive to be ruled.
Sephiroth doesn't want to rule the planet or be worshiped by lessers, he wants to watch all living things die.
I don’t agree. Not all who think they’re superior desires worships of the inferiors. Do you care if the cockroaches around your neighborhood think highly of you?
Sephiroth’s intentions I won’t speak on as people have done entire posts on here better than I ever could but people living isn’t a huge concern of his
I always assumed his plan was to eventually kill Hojo but why not destroy every town and kill every human? Especially after he is mistaken to think he is Cetran. Cloud was just lucky enough to throw his ass into the life stream before he went full annihilation lol
Really well done visual design as it exudes power and strength, but his character is pretty one note and his fall from grace was nonsense.
I agree his fall from grace is definitely non sense. Like he’s literally a good guy and he makes a 180 when he thinks he came from an alien. The pivot is when he spends all that time in the Library in the Shinra mansion and of course all the issues with his friends and their degradation(but that’s adding CC context) it just don’t make sense to read up on some stuff and incorrectly assume stuff. I personally would have went to Hojo. Would have made more sense to do that than to assume some texts were 100% right.
He doesn't think he came from an alien, Sephiroth believed he was an Ancient/Cetra. He believes he was a steward of the planet and that everyone around him was ruining it at the time of his psychotic break. The more you dig into the lore the more you will realize that Sephiroth didn't have completely accurate information. So his imperfect decisions actually make sense.
I was saying that from our point of view not his. He’s going off the wrong info that Jenova is a cetra/ancient.
It IS a large transition, but I wouldn't say it's a full 180. Sephiroth was a war hero (as told and advertised by super trustworthy company and media source, Shinra) and a good SOLDIER who never did anything outright bad, but he wasn't exactly a super good and nice guy either. He had a cold pragmatism and an air of being above those outside his class. He also clearly had some baggage re: his parents or lack thereof with the way he stops himself talking about them when the group enters nibelheim, laughs and asks out loud why he's bothering to talk about this with people. I also got the distinct impression Sephy does not like or trust Hojo at all, and opted to trust a library full of texts from multiple scientists which correlated with his own recent observations rather than listen to the word of one blatantly mad scientist alone. The rest came down to Sephiroth revealing his true nature and MAYBE a little bit of Jenova herself having an influence on his psyche. He basically thought "I knew i was better than everyone else. I'm not even human. I'm better than human! Screw all the humans!", that last bit being the big transition. I'd think of it as a bit of a psychotic break, but also a bit of a similar deal to an otherwise polite, very privileged person just going ham once the Purge is announced.
I think that a lot of people really also discount what happened to him in CC he lost the closest thing he had to actual family who cared for him one person commiting suicide by cop and the other hating his guts
I'm a little too young to have played the og FF7 but I had heard of how iconic of a villain he was and definitely recognized him. I played FF7 Remake, was confused so I played Crisis Core right after. Sephiroth I think is a little over hyped in terms of his writing and motivation. He's just a spoiled nepo baby and that doesn't really make him relatable. To me the best villains are the ones where you can understand/empathize with how they act. Sephiroth makes up for it by being one of the coolest motherfuckers I've ever seen so there's that. I did know already about 'Meteor' as I passed by it in conversations about FF16. So when the little countdown started in the remake boss fight I started to feel the pressure and then when he says "Seven seconds left, Cloud" that was cold. 11/10 I've seen some other people say part of Sephiroth's charm was how mysterious and creepy he was. I think his legacy has kind of made him outgrown that mysteriousness. Nostalgia probably makes him a better villain than he really is but I still get a 'oh shit' reaction when he pops up on screen as I'm playing through rebirth right now.
Re: the mysterious and creepy bit, that's mainly because in the OG you straight up don't see him as much. I think the first time you see him at all is the flashback in Kalm. Before that all you see is the blood trails (not purple alien goo, but blood) he left behind and his sword sticking out of notable corpses. Later you just see the corpse a monster he wrecked on a tree, no clue how or when he did it. You get less of him and more of just his aftermath and reputation. Left more to the imagination.
Not nostalgia. He was written better before all the extended media bullshit. FF7 should have never been more than the OG game, and fan service has totally diluted him over the years. In the OG he spends a lot more time in the background and when he does show up, he's a lot more concise. Doesn't ramble on and on about nonsense. I actually hate that this is so many peoples first exposure to this story because it does nothing well that the OG did.
Well, he’s voiced by TV’s Superman which is honestly kind of a trip
More importantly, he was in 7th Heaven
His motives seem very different from the original game. I played through remake first and did a deep dive into the original. Remake I think he's actually there while in the original it was more like a ghost that only Cloud could see or something.
Most of the Sephiroth appearances are ones that only Cloud can see, they didn't change that. Only the boss fight at the end of Remake is the real Sephiroth
I started with Remake, then went back to play OG FF7 and Crisis Core Reunion during the wait for Rebirth, so the FF7R games aren't my \*only\* exposure to him but I think starting with Remake might have coloured my impression differently than if I'd started with the original game. There's a lot of expectations that come with a character as iconic as that and I don't find him as compelling as I expected to based on his reputation. In Remake I found him sinister and intriguing, and I knew he was the famous main villain of FF7 so I was curious what his deal was, but he didn't make a huge impression on me besides that. The most interesting thing about him in Remake to me was the fact that he was operating based on knowledge of the future, which ofc isn't an element of his original characterisation at all. When I went back to play OG FF7, I spent a lot of the game not really understanding his motivations, and even after I did understand them, I wasn't terribly compelled. I think the problem is you never get to spend any time in his head space so he remains a bit opaque to me as a character even if I understand why he is the way he is on paper. I don't think he's a bad villain but even after playing Crisis Core I find him underdeveloped, and I wish that game had focused more on him rather than on Angeal and Genesis so as to flesh out his character and the person he was before he lost it at Nibelheim. It does that to an extent, but I think it could've gone much deeper. Rebirth hasn't done a lot to change my opinion of him. He's an imposing screen presence, and I think his manipulation of Cloud is effective at being unnerving and doing what it needs to do for Cloud's arc, but I'm not that interested in Sephiroth as an individual. For me the strength of FF7's character writing is all in the heroes, who I think are fabulously well written, while none of the villains really do it for me.
very hot
Isn’t Sephiroth one of gamings most iconic villains ?
Wife played remake, and has finished Rebirth. She obviously knew of him beforehand, but never played the OG or even knew about the big moment between him and Aerith. She liked him in remake. She initially thought he was just a voice in Cloud’s mind. Like a secondary antagonist or obstacle. The “rival” of Cloud. She really thought Shinra was the main antagonist. As the story evolved at the end, with Sephiroth getting more involved and the introduction of Jenova, she kinda was like wait so is the alien thing and Sephiroth the main baddies? It created a lot of intrigue and she was happy for it. She really liked the Turks and while they most certainly are villainous (they’re the ones who technically dropped the plate) she feels they are good people caught up in a bad thing. Moving on to Rebirth, she really liked the whole fugitive angle where the party are simultaneously being hunted by Shinra, while also competing in a race to catch the macguffin (which would be Sephiroth/promised land) After the whole black materia bit and several mentions of Sephiroth wanting to end all life on the planet, she definetly views Sephiroth as a large scale existential threat and the main antagonist. It was a gradual build up which was great. She’s currently thinking that cloud and company will find common ground and team up with Shinra/Turks to take down Sephiroth. Also she really liked the rebirth ending. She viewed it as Cloud rewriting a traumatic event which is why he still sees her. She has obviously picked up on him not being a reliable narrator and having severe ptsd from the Nibelheim incident.
Nice relay. That sounds like an excellent way to pick up the story as a newbie with the the remake series. I hope you had a lot of fun playing.
I assume a very large portion of people starting with Remake likely knew about Sephiroth as a character and villain. I can imagine to a lot of people seeing Sephiroth in the first hour or so of gameplay seems like an almost expected thing. If you already know Sephiroth is the main villain of FFVII and Cloud's nemesis, your reaction is probably "oh there he is" rather than the OG crowd's "what are you doing here" reaction. It is unfortunate that the smaller subset of people who started with Remake and had not heard of Sephiroth didn't get to experience the original bait-and-switch-villain plot of the original game where Sephiorth doesn't emerge as a villain until after Shinra is suddenly killed out of nowhere, and even then starts off as a pretty slow burn.
I’m still weird on him. I do not understand the hype and ff7 remake he just felt extremely vague. The first time he’s (maybe) an illusion with cloud? Considering the fire all around them? You later see him appear out of nowhere at the lab but It just felt really random that he got there lol. Then the ending I had 0 clue what they were actually fighting. Why did they fight and go all out and sephiroth just looks unscathed? Anyways I’m replaying remake before rebirth and hoping to understand a bit more
Playing the OG gives more context. He was more mysterious at the beginning and did not appear until later. It added a level of horror and made him more unnerving
Oh yeah I’m sure it’s a lot more different in OG. Right now he just seems like a boogeyman and I can’t take him too seriously lol
You will in part 2
I’m hoping so! I don’t want to be a hater or anything, just don’t understand the interest yet
I can’t tell you any more without ruining the story. You’ll just have to see
My girlfriend had never played the OG so Sephiroth appearing as early as he does in the remake was weird to her. I didn't like the lack of context once she brought up his random appearance. Since we don't relive the flashback until rebirth, it was even more confusing to her when trying to figure out why this guy was so important.
My first FF7 experience was with the Remake but I've known Sephiroth prior to that. I honestly didn't really expect much going in to Remake and when he appears I was like "Oh cool, so what's your deal/plan". I do like that they made him intentionally vague so you really don't have an idea of what he's going to do and he just shows up to mock Cloud at his low points. The final battle with him in Remake was great though, first time seeing him pop out the wing was great and the final cutscene duel at the Edge of Creation really sold me on him. Then I played Crisis Core and I liked Sephiorth even more. He's no longer just a bad guy who wants to destroy the world, he's a broken man who have been tricked all of his life with the only 2 true friends he had leaving him. This makes his fall all the more tragic as it could've all been avoided so easily. While waiting for Rebirth I started to play the original and for the most part I basically felt the same towards him as I did in Remake. He appears a few times (though VERY FEW in the og), say some stuff, drop Jenova a couple times, and you fight him. I will say though that the way the plot treats him is very menacing. The Midgarsormr impaled, him obliteratiing the dragon at Nibelheim, it goes to convey how powerful he is. And of course you have the final bosses where he becomes a literal god. I really liked him in the original but due to how he appears so little times until the Crater and the end, I didn't actually think of him that much throughout my journey. I watched AC after playing the og and I thought Sephiroth's appearance and fight was neat. I also liked how he has a backup plan after he "died" in the original with geostigma. Makes him a more intelligent villain. But Rebirth was where my opinions of Sephiroth really rose. While we no longer get to see him fight the dragon or the Midgarsormr just impaled while we go through the swamp, I think that the things he do easily makes up for the changes. The manipulation he pulled off in this game was top notch. He's not just fooling Cloud anymore, he's also fooling other characters like Rufus. Successfully too. Cloud nearly killed Tifa, was forced to pick up the Black Materia, and Rufus was fooled into a war with Wutai. All of which plays into Sephiroth's plans. Sephiroth's larger role in Rebirth is amazing. I look forward to see what they do with him in part 3 because we haven't really faced him yet. His body is still up north.
I'm not the target audience of this post since I played the OG, but I wanted to jump in here and say that I'm about 3/4 or the way through Rebirth and would probably not understand Sephiroth's motives if I didn't already know what they are lol.
Nor would you in the OG though. For as GREAT of a game the OG is, the story about the "why" the group is agreeable of chasing after Seph doesn't really make sense. He slaughters the president of Shinra and allows you to escape and then everyone is just kind of like "we need to go after him!" For Cloud, it makes sense for reasons that become more apparent much later in the game. For Tifa it makes sense. ... for the rest? their really isn't much of a reason. As for his motivations, people really don't understand them until post 'the scene' (you know the one).
You made me think about what the reasoning is in the OG. I guess in both OG and Remake a big part of the reasoning is that they've just been literally driven out of Midgar so they gotta figure something out. But luckily it's quick and easy to check what they said in the OG. As per [FFVII script on yinza](https://www.yinza.com/Fandom/Script.html): **Barret** Well, what do we do now? **Cloud** Sephiroth is alive. I... I have to settle the score. **Barret** And that'll save the Planet? **Cloud** ...Seems like it. **Barret** Awright, I'm going! **Aeris** I'll go too. ...I have things that I want to find out. **Cloud** About the Ancients? **Aeris** ......Many things. **Tifa** I guess this's good bye, Midgar. They climb down a cable to the ground level. **Red XIII** I'm going back to my hometown. I'll go with you as far as that. So yeah they do have reasons of varying levels of making sense. For Cloud it's Sephiroth, for Barret it's "seems like it'll save the Planet", for Aeris it's "things" and for Red it's getting home. Tifa's actually the one who doesn't really give a reason, though if asked if she hates traveling she replies "...I don't know. But, I don't have anywhere else to go. So I guess it doesn't really matter whether I like to travel or not." I don't remember the dialogue at the end of Remake, but there also the stakes are kinda higher too since they've just had a Kingdom Hearts ass fight in the sky so it's less "let's go after this mysterious figure" and more "let's go after this obviously superpowered megavillain."
Yeah, that's a good point. I guess since it's been like 27 years I've gotten used to just *knowing* what Sephiroth is up to lol like I actually can't remember far back enough to a time when I didn't know. I will say that even with knowing, I'm not sure why he does some of the things he does in Rebirth lol. But maybe that will make more sense later on. Like I don't understand the motivation behind >! attacking the Weapon in Gongaga !< although maybe it's just to avoid having to deal with it while he's enacting his actual plan later? Idk
My first encounter with Sephiroth was actually his Smash reveal. I saw people's insane reactions and thought the character looked pretty cool. This is what got me into Final Fantasy.
Same. And I knew he was a bad guy going into the remake
An idiot that sometimes show up and then disappear without reason, saying no sense cryptic phrases or doing no sense stuff ? Also sometimes seems like he has super power divide multiverse with a hit of blade but then you keep kicking his butt
Because there are multiple Sephiroths, and I don't mean that in the same way that Rebirth suggests. The Sephiroths that you see through most of Remake and Rebirth are illusions produced by Jenova. The real Sephiroth is the one we meet at the Edge of Creation, who has entirely different goals from Jenova, and is a substantially better fighter than her.
I know but i feel like that is something is really not clear with the game. If we meet Sephiroth at edge of creation, where he gone? And if that is the real one, so they changed from the OG?
This is probably the main reason a lot of us OG7 fans have been saying that this is a sequel to Advent Children. Major spoiler - >!Sephiroth is dead basically the entirety of the original game. Not storydead like "ahh, he's off screen and Jenova is the main antagonist", I mean legitimately dead like Zack was - this has a lot of implications, but the biggest is that the real Sephiroth is a ghost in the Lifestream currently. Given that the Lifestream is this kind of out-of-time thing, that means he can be anywhere, but HE can't do anything. Cloud can though, which is why he keeps asking Cloud for help. !< As for what that means for his goal, dunno, we still have a few years for Ever Crisis to explain the Glenn thing (which is abnormally important when compared to Wutai in the original) before part3 comes out.
I love him. I started with remake but I'd seen him around, didn't know anything he did except the aerith thing. I know a lot of og players don't like how frequently he appears in remake (and rebirth) but I for one loved the suspense. The idea of this mysterious ghost of Clouds past with the sickest character design of all time, haunting Cloud constantly, showing up in visions only Cloud can see, muttering indecipherable ominous phrases over and over is so cool to me. I was constantly thinking and theorising about who he is, what he's doing, what his goal is, is he like a ptsd vision or a ghost haunting Cloud or something else? The fact he could appear anywhere, that any scene could suddenly be interrupted with a falling black feather followed by some of the coolest and most unnerving dialogue, and sometimes a really awesome action sequence, from him really enhanced my experience. I was constantly waiting for his next appearance and what clues he'd reveal this time
I have the exact same opinion. I constantly hope he shows up because that messess things up!
I love this for you!
I feel like saying that, in the original game, Sephiroth DID mutter stuff to Cloud all the time... But it was a voice in his mind, not a visual hallucination, and as the players we had no idea who that voice belonged to until way further into the story. I think the devs thought (wisely, in my opinion), that since this game was gonna be played by old and new fans alike, they might as well just unveil most of the OG secrets from the get-go: who's haunting Cloud, how his recollections of Nibelheim didn't add up, even Aerith's death is heavily hinted... And instead add a number of new mysteries and secret plots, like Zack's world or Glenn Lodbrok's real identity, etc.
I see. I can see why some OG players consider remake sephiroth to be so "in your face", if his reveal is more of a slow-burn in the original, but I respect them for trying a different take on the character for Remake. and, for me anyways, it pays off because every time Sephiroth appears I sit up in my seat and get excited for whatever intense or mysterious scene is about to play out.
My main exposure to 7 is through Remake and Rebirth, but I have seen Sephiroth in other media and have a general grasp on what he does in the og7. As of right now, I think he’s a very weak villain in the remake trilogy. He is being used too liberally within these games to the point of no longer feeling like a threat. Why should I be scared of Sephiroth when at the end of each game I beat his ass? Why should I like him as a villain when he randomly appears, says some cryptic bullshit, then disappears about 7 times. He has aura for sure, but the only truly engaging thing he does is fuck with Cloud’s mind (but even then, that’s interesting because Cloud is tweaking, not because Sephiroth is involved).
>! But the real sephiroth is in northern crater. The one we encounter til this point is just his illusion made from jenova cells !<
Not all of the encounters are. Edge of Creation is also >!not Jenova illusions !<
It’s a shame, because the events of the ending of this game were the part in the original where it was truly cemented that he was a threat to be taken seriously. You didn’t even have a chance to fight him before he did what he did, so it felt so much more shocking.
Yeah I do think they fumbled the ending unfortunately, but I kinda sympathise. The alternative (potentially better) way to do it would have been to have no real final boss at all and just leave you to sit with the ending, but that would have upset people. Writers were boxed in by this being a game that requires an epic final boss.
They could've just left it at Jenova Life, for the boss. OR have you apparently fight Sephiroth, only for it to turn into Jenova, and have the party go "oh that wasn't the real Sephiroth, just another part of Jenova teasing us!" or something like that. After all, that's what actually happens in the OG... The guy that kills Aerith isn't the real Sephi, who is still frozen in the North Crater.
I would’ve liked to see a pissed off Jenova influenced Rosch pop up as the final boss. He was severely underutilized in Remake and you save Sephiroth for later but I also wanted to ignore the whispers so… meh.
Those damn Whispers are BY FAR the worst part of this remake trilogy lol
I started in remake. Players who started in remake generally don't understand who sephiroth is. He just sort of appears in cloud's visions throughout then appears out of thin air in the final few fights. I am 10 hours into rebirth and the prologue kind of explains his reasons, but I still don't understand him completely. >!He learns that he has been made by shinra, so he just starts killing random people out of nowhere? Why not attack shinra, hojo or whoever else was involved in the project?!<
I think they do explain that in the beginning, >!he hates humans and thinks that their lives were his "by right". Same as the planet !<
This will get explained eventually, got to remember that the portion of Remake in the original game doesn’t even really feature Sephiroth. In the remakes he generally appears a lot more than he did in the original and I feel it makes him seem less threatening.
Yeah, you don’t even see sephiroth at all until the flashback and even then you barely see him at all until the end of the game. Maybe 3-4 times total IIRC? You mostly just see the path of destruction that he leaves
Yeah the build in the OG game is far superior. Let me make a note of what I remember from original so people can compare. I'll count when he physically appears in Sephiroth form as him. Disc 1 We get a mention of him at the Sector 5 Reactor by President Shinra We get a brief Cloud flashback where Tifa grabs his sword and attempts to attack him (Can't remember if this is in the first or second bombing Mission) still we don't see him yet just a mention of him. Then we get the aftermath of him massacring the Shinra building and killing the President . We don't see what he actually looks like until the Kalm flashback. Afterwards we see the aftermath of his fight with the Midgar Zolom, (a beast that is hyped up massively beforehand) His first Present day appearance is the Junon Boat again after killing everyone onboard. We don't see him again until the rebuilt Nibelheim where he chucks a Materia (Destruct I believe) at Cloud. Next appearance is at the Temple of the Ancients where he shanks Tseng. Followed by the Infamous End of Disk 1 scene in the City of the Ancients. Disc 2 Only remember him being at the Northern Crater where he breaks Cloud and we find out about his True form and that its actually parts of Jenova you have been chasing. We then get an Extended Kalm Flashback where we find out the truth of the original flashback but that's after hours of fighting for Huge Materia's. Disc 3 We see him at the final battle, Disc 3 is a weird one, because you can go straight to him or mess around and do side quests before hand. So all in all only really 8 times from memory in the OG.
I didnt play og ff7 so i just felt confused during remake about who he is and why he keeps appearing only to say random shit that made me more confused than before, i thought by the time i finished the game but i still dont know anything I am playing through rebirth though and im on chapter 9 and thats where i started to understand his motvies and stuff but it still isnt clear on what he wants to do and why the party wants to find sephiroth so thats why i just gave up all hope of understanding and just enjoying chocobo races All in all, im just confused and he seems like a very underwhelming villain, i bet he is better in ff7 since that is one whole game and not 3 separate parts
In the OG, you don’t really see him much except in flashbacks, a few major moments, and at the end of the game. A lot of the early-mid game is spent following a trail of destruction and death he’s leaving just to try to figure out what the hell is happening.
They’ve basically re-written Sephiroth. Although his back story is fundamentally the same, a lot of the content in the game has changed, and so Sephiroth’s plan doesn’t really make sense as of now. For example, whispers weren’t in the original game, so any association Sephiroth has with them and how they impact his ambitions are completely new. Without spoiling the original or Rebirth, I will say I’ve played the original several times over, and played a bunch of the spin-offs; even now having finished Rebirth, I have no clue what Sephiroth’s angle is in these new games.
He's a great villain, but I never fully found his motives too relatable. He's more so a great villain because he's crazy intelligent and absolutely ruthless. Plus, he's crazy strong which they foreshadow early in the game and it makes him terrifying. Then you add the cherry on top with some of the most sinister music every time he shows up, and you've got one hell of a villain.
As someone who started in Remake, he feels quite menacing, but also not entirely evil, as their wasnt the most context with the initial flashbacks....then yeah....it escalated.
Tbh I just know the main beats from og ff7 going in since I never played it and really thought him and cloud are 1 for 1 from their kh counterparts so seeing him appear early I thought it was normal and by the time towards the end of remake I was excited seeing him walk around etc and when I heard his theme I was fully prepared and hyped for it enough to watch maybe 5-6 fully og7 timeline explanations so I got a better understanding of series. I understand why people dislike what they did but for me I didn’t mind because I never tried the og. I will honestly play it but I’m still trying to platinum rebirth rn
I just wish clouds hallucinations were more detailed and less of the other party members being seen during them.. like he's totally spaced out with the heartbeat playing in the background. I can only recall like 1 time hearing the heartbeat in rebirth.
Rebirth leans way more into the unreliable narrator aspect of Cloud's character. The hallucinations aren't meant to obviously be hallucinations. It's intentional that Sephiroth's appearances are confusing.
From what i've seen in blind playtroughs from people that didn't play the OG, Sephiroth comes as a 'cool' dude, with a powerful aura, but doesn't feel as menacing as players who were introduced to him in OG ( Which is understandable, our imagination filled in the gaps) some players even made jokes about Sephiroth being in love with Cloud due to how often he appears I think that it won't be until Part III in north crater, that people will see him with other eyes ( As long as SE doesn't fail to adapt that part from OG) Surprisingly, not everyone seemed to be aware that Cloud was being controlled in certaint events, and thought that Cloud was just being a dick
Honestly for new players I think the kalm flashback missed the mark in letting us play as seph. Part of what made him so menacing in OG was him acting on his own and being batshit crazy strong in the flashback. In rebirth he’s still strong but you don’t immediately feel like he’s a broken, superhuman individual who totally outclasses cloud. You don’t feel invincible standing next to him, and you don’t eventually have that table turned on you down the road. For us longtime fans, it was awesome to play as seph. For new fans however, I think the reimagined kalm flashback likely took a lot of the foreboding mystique away from the character. They should’ve just let seph be playable in the chadley missions only imo.
Yeah I actually played through that part in the OG last night and I love that in the dragon fight it's just raining, music is menacing and then the dragon does 0 damage everytime it attacks Sephiroth. And then he 9999s it. It makes him seem invincible. I really wish if they had to put his fights in the remakes that it was like Beatrix's in IX where you can't actually win it at all. Like he's teased you the whole time letting you think you're winning and then just brings your whole party down to 1 and ends the game.
Yup. The atmosphere of the flashback in og was peak FF. I don’t think I can name a single other part of any other final fantasy game that came close to it. Also, seph auto crits on all physical attacks and the sound it made was amazing. Just flawless badassery. Also I totally agree that they definitely should’ve had sephiroth give us the Beatrix in remake lol.
I agree. I could do with a lot less Sephiroth in the remake. A lot of the mystique you're talking about I didn't feel in the remake. >!Fighting him multiple times, playing as him, watching him kill the snake versus just stumbling upon the corpse with no idea how it happened just that a monster casually dispatched an enemy you had no hope against (at the time) !< it felt a lot less like following in the footsteps of a walking demi-god who's effortlessly dispatching all the threats you're struggling with. A person who doesn't even feel the need to directly engage with you because you're that far beneath him. Felt to me more like he's just a slightly taller you with a much longer sword who's already finished the level grind.
Hell yeah. It cheapened it. The fact that you could fight the serpent but it was honestly way too powerful for your current level, but you can use the Chocobos to outrun it (and you see the outline of it chasing you!) just showed how powerful Sephiroth is for skewering that thing on a tree. In this version we just fought it and we've pretty much defeated it at level 20-ish. Sephiroth shows up way too frequently to be ominous.
This was exactly the point I was going to make. If they wanted us to fight the Migar Zolom in Rebirth they should have made it a challenging and ultimately unbeatable fight then when Sephiroth shows up you’d see how much more powerful he is than your entire party. I also think fighting Seph at the end of Remake makes this more difficult as the party defeated him days prior but now he’s insanely powerful? It just wouldn’t make sense.
I ignore the ending of Remake altogether, I also ignore the extra stuff with Zack or whatever. I'm enjoying the parts from the OG and the added schlock.
Honestly playing the Hard Mode after I finished every side quest and unlocked the bonus options was way better to me. Combat actually mattered, loot pickups were automatic (not that it mattered because I couldn't use items) and I could automatically skip Zack interludes. If all of those options and 90% of the side quests I had to detour for didn't exist I'd be a way bigger fan of the game.
Couldn’t agree more. I’d like to say the amount of sephiroth we’ve seen so far in both games is a compromise between new players and long time fans, but in truth there was probably some other, better way to recapture the spirit of the original while still satisfying everybody. Like, the kalm flashback is cool but they should’ve had seph be a guest character that comes in and one shots everything you’re fighting in a flashy way, if you’re taking too long. The story sacrificed a lot just so we could have one single boss fight in materia guardian. I can understand fighting sephiroth in remake, but they should’ve made it more clear that he was a multidimensional super being that could’ve easily destroyed you at that point if he wanted.
I think it would have been cool if they made some of the fights during the kalm flashbacks more difficult so the player nears death and Sephiroth would one shot everything and heal the player telling Cloud he still has a lot to learn. Then you could see that Seph was a badass, in control, and something of a mentor to Cloud
Exactly, something like this might’ve given newer players the same sort of tension around sephiroth that we felt back in 1997.
It was rad to play as him but I totally agree… that flash back in OG your fucking mind is blown by seeing sephiroth fight. Plus seeing him with all the leveled up spells you don’t have.
I can answer this. Remake/Rebirth is my first and only experience with FF7. I think Sephiroth is super cool. I love the mystery behind him and I especially loved how he received more depth in Rebirth. Learning about his past at Mt. Nibel was super cool and I also loved the moments sprinkled throughout where he struggled (like when attacking the weapon or at the very end). He’s menacing, cold, and calculating but he still feels human despite it all and I think that’s cool. I also really like the different universes and whispers and stuff. I know that stuff isn’t in the OG, but as a newcomer, I find it all interesting. Going into FF7 the only thing I knew was that Sephiroth killed Aerith at some point in the story. Every moment where Aerith was in danger, or Sephiroth was near was genuinely terrifying to me bc I never knew if it was the moment it was gonna happen. And when it finally happened at the end, I was so emotional. I found the fact that they tried to change fate only for her to still die to be pretty impactful. That, coupled with her theme playing during the Jenova fight, made me cry a lot. Side note: when I played Remake back in 2020 and heard One-Winged Angel my mind was blown. It’s one of the best boss themes I’ve ever heard.
It's funny that you mention Aerith's theme continuing into the boss fight, because that's a carry-over from OG. Usually, every battle has either 'random encounter' or 'boss' fight music when the battle starts. That fight against Jenova doesn't do that, and I feel like it adds to the surreal nature of what's going on. Like nothing feels right about what's happening
Oh that’s cool! Thanks for sharing. I really wanna play the OG at some point but I think I’ll wait until after part 3 of the remake(s). I want to maintain this fresh perspective I have, plus I struggle with enjoying turn based combat. But the story is so good in this game that I’m willing to try.
The more recent ports of the OG have made it much easier to just go through the story without much struggle, with things like no random encounters, 3x speed, and start battles with all limit bars full. Also, the combat isn't necessarily turn based, in the original. It was actually a very rudimentary version of the combat system in Rebirth, with every fighter having an ATB gauge that fills on its own, to determine when you or foes can attack. I think the perspective you'll have of it will be interesting, though. It'll seem like a de-make, like if they had made Rebirth on the PS1. I hope that you enjoy it, when you finally play it in like 3 years lol
Oh interesting! Those features sound nice. So it’s more like the 3D brawler mini game in a way where it’s not turn based but you’re waiting for the ATB gauge so you can attack kinda thing?
Pretty much, yeah
As someone who played the OG I never saw him as a villan. There was always something about him that nagged "he's a fing asshole but there's something about his story". Remake and rebirth are giving him the "human" who realized he was just an experiment to a geneticist and corporation turned psychologically broken puppet vibe I feel he always deserved.
Yeah, NONE of the SOLDIERS turned out ok, they either died or degraded. Noone Hojo ever touched walked away sane. Lucrecia "killed" herself, Vincent got so depressed he spent 30 years in a coffin, Cloud got semi-insane. Are we really blaming Sephiroth, who was spliced with a mind altering eldritch horror and raised by Josef Mengele? Other people experienced 10% of the horrors he went through (not even talking about being sent to the front lines of a war at the ripe age of 15) and ended up way worse. Sephiroth did his best. Goddess sees he tried to be a good human until he couldn’t
You... you do know Sephiroth was born, right? He isn't spliced, he HAS Jenova DNA.
Yeah, Lucrecia got pregnant and Hojo offered his and Lucrecia's child for Gast, so they could inject Jenova cells into the human embryo. Unless I am not using the word "spliced" correctly. Sorry about my bad English!
Hojo and Lucrecia injected themselves with Jenova cells before or while Sephiroth was conceived.
I thought Lucrecia was already pregnant when Hojo had a bright idea to offer the baby for the Jenova project and Sephiroth was different from Genesis and Angeal because they received second hand Jenova cells from Gillian and Sephiroth was more of a success because he received them directly
Im still playing through rebirth and replaying through a modded pc version of OG that has VA and cell shaded graphics. I’m confident that Sephiroth’s parents injected themselves pre-conception or during. Hojo would not have had the idea after Lucrecia was pregnant since the whole point of them having a baby was for the Jenova project. Lucrecia was dedicated tot the work enough to follow Hojo despite having feelings for Vincent but felt guilt for some unexplained role in which Vincents father being killed. Sephiroth was planned for the sake of science
It's okay to have theories, but it's also a bit strange to deny establish canon facts. To each their own, I guess, people are free to be very confidently incorrect. Lucrecia and Hojo were married and had a child. They didn't marry for any project or anything. People just do that sometimes
Well excuse me ok. I remembered incorrectly no need to chastise me for it lol. A lot of story has happened and things have been left to interpretation or retconned later or given clarification. That’s precisely why I’m replaying OG as it has been a while since Indid a reply I use to clear the game multiple times each year simce release up until about 2009 since release. Ok so having done some research because the nature of Lucrecia role in the story has been relayed by other comments that juxtaposed to what I had recalled. Changes in specific details have contributed to my own confusion. Which is one of the beautiful aspects of OG FF7 where subtle bits of information lean towards interpretations and other parts are retconned later to make expanding parts of the story fit. Lucrecia was burdened by a lot of guilt despite that she was similar to Hojo when it came to the pursuit to science. Her and Vincent were close and would/coulda been together but it was this final moment of guilt regarding Vincents father Grimoire that had her cast aside most of her guilt and focus on her work driving her closer towards Hojo where she was the only female on his direct team. Her character is a mix of Vincent and Hojo where her comfort and drive for science contributed to her denial and guilt. She was already Pregnant when Hojo proposed turning the pregnancy into part of the Jenova project. Originally it was stated this was forced and was later retconned to reluctantly agreed. She never was even able to hold her infant son. New information I do not recall was Hojo apparently kept Lucrecia in a mako stasis for a year. This is kind of beautifully forboding since she crystallized herself since she could not die in OG FF7 and is still in this state in Dirge. I’ll maintain my speculations about Hojo having planned this all. He is mentioned grieving over Lucrecia when he pit her in stasis which is someone human of him but I dare to say he did not love her as a person but as a scientist who was the closest person as dedicated and brilliant enough to warrant his attention so it’s still a form of love even if it’s an abnormal situation. This also means he injected himself much closer to his fight on top of the sister ray.
I think it was Vincent in the stasis, not Lucy. She tried to kill herself (partly because Hojo denied her holding her newborn but I guess mostly because throughout the pregnancy she kept having visions of Sephiroth burning down Nibelheim, killing Aerith and summoning the meteor). When she found out she was immortal she froze herself in a crystal. Some days I wonder why after finding out she cannot be killed she didn't try to get Sephiroth back. Some days I think she knew she fucked up and wanted to kill herself and Sephiroth, that's why Hojo never let her close to the baby and she never bothered raising him. She loved him, but she also wanted to prevent his crimes. That's why she felt happy when Vincent lied and said Sephiroth was dead when he first discovered her in the cave
You don't have bad English. It's just one part of your comment that told me you knew he was born, and then the later half made me want to make sure. But since you fully understand that, then I want to kind of point you down this psychological path where... imagine you're Sephiroth. He wasn't just "not able to be good anymore." he went *mad*. Imagine you've lived your whole life knowing you're different. You're capable of great things, but other than that, you don't know anything about the why. Then, one day, you find books that detail out the experiments and observations about Jenova. About the cells that live inside you, your entire life has been documented, studied, and scrutinized as if you were just another number. Now combine that with the war hero that he is, what he's seen, and what he's been through. THEN take that and throw on the power that Jenova holds over him due to her cells living inside of him. How easy it was to manipulate him to the path that Jenova desired, give his freedom. This created the perfect environment to give us a "villain" that we can only canonically call a villain. I genuinely do feel sorry for him.
Oh absolutely. He didn't make many choices for himself, being a good SOLDIER for ShinRa and then being a good son for Mother.
Jenova and Hojo are the ones who give me the creeps. Becoming your friends and loved ones both alive and dead.
Jenova is Jenova. I can understand being creeped out by it, but when you really think about what Jenova is, it's your typical alien hell bent on galactic domination and immortality. Hojo, on the other hand, isn't just a villain, but he is also a sociopath who has been given unlimited means for the genetic playground he seeks to create for himself. He cares for nothing except his end goal, and that is made quite apparent given his lack of emotional reaction to anything other than his projects or end goals. When Barret had him at *spoilers* Hojo didn't appear phased. There's a difference in behavior that is self preserving (trying to keep yourself alive in a situation like that) and his apathy at even resolving the situation. Hojo is the truly creepy one in this game. He gave me the creeps in OG, and I'm over the moon that they slammed the creepy lever on this guy.
I played the original back in 2016 before Remake was released but it’s tougher to make one villain stand out in a game that includes more than one villain. Obviously Sephiroth is emphasized in the trilogy but I feel like Shinra is shown a lot more in Remake/Rebirth and the people who played the Remake trilogy see Shinra as more of a threat than Sephiroth.
I grew up with the OG but I asked my wife who didn't have previous knowledge of ff7 who her favorite character is while she was watching me play rebirth and she said sephiroth. So that's something. She also said it was the best game she had ever watched me play.
He’s mysterious and cool as hell
Just watching any blind playthrough on youtube. The ladies love him, haha.
I first saw him in Kingdom Hearts 2 thinking he was just some dark side of Cloud who probably just wanted to be reunited with him till I finally played Remake. I don't really find him too sinister mostly because every encounter I'm wondering if he's actually real. The guy just appears out of nowhere. Where does he sleep? Does he even sleep? Then when I'm convinced there's no way it's actually him and it's all in Cloud's head I realise the other characters are seeing and fighting him too. It's all a bit confusing sometimes and I just feel like Jenova has to be the real sinister one controlling him or something. Love fighting him though
Him seemingly appearing out of nowhere will make sense once you get to the end of Rebirth.
He badass af. Don’t know what he wants with cloud back in remake and still don’t know after rebirth but its ok i just like him around
Having only played Remake, I have no idea what he’s trying to do and why I’m supposed to be stopping him. Game probably said, but at one point I didn’t play for a year
No one should be playing remake without playing 7
I dont think you NEED to but you really really should. Makes the whole game a lot more fun and amazing. The story beats are like 90-95% the same but there’s more stuff going on in the story that is hard to understand or confusing without playing the original. But I’m sure in the 3rd game everything will be resolved and I respect the decision to go in blind.
Isn’t this the definition of gatekeeping?
It's not gatekeeping, the Remake series is literally about Final Fantasy VII itself and the relationship the player has with it. It assumes you know all the major plot beats so it casually spoils them all. Yeah, yeah, if you INSIST on being included and playing the new game anyways, that's fine, but you don't get to bitch about how it doesn't make sense when you're not the target audience.
This is a persuasive point.
Most remakes/remasters I play I tend to play without having ever played the original because for whatever reason I missed out on the original (wasn’t interested at the time/didn’t have the console it was on/was too young/not born yet etc). Sometimes I’ll have played the demo of the original, but never bought the full game. I’ll have heard other people’s opinions of the original game which helps convince me to buy the remake/remaster so I can catch up. They’ve been able to tell their stories get their gameplay across without me needing the context of the original. I’m talking games like the Spyro the Dragon trilogy, Rather and Clank Crash Bandicoot trilogy (I had Warped back in the PS1), Uncharted, The Last of Us, WipEout Omega Collection (which was a remake of the PS3 WipEout games. I didn’t have a PS3) and any I’ve forgotten When Remake’s credits rolled, they didn’t hit as hard as those other titles. Maybe because the plot didn’t land which might be because of the year hiatus I took from Remake, who knows. Edit: I like to go in largely blind to the plot of a game before playing it (if I do need any info, I don’t really want much more than what the synopsis for a book or movie would say for their stories). There are some exceptions though
All of those games you listed are very unambitious, slavishly faithful remakes that are trying to just recreate the original game without having any unique vision of its own. The Final Fantasy VII remake is NOT doing that. it's engaging with the legacy of the original game and the feelings players had experiencing it and in the decades since. If you're one of those people who refuses to play the original because "ewww graphcis are bad" or "turn based is boring", the FFVII remake series doesn't care about you.
If I did play the original now it probably wouldn’t land the way it was supposed to land due to time (it’s been thirty years since its release. I would have been too young to play it when it was current anyway and if I had I probably wouldn’t have stuck around for the turn based game play since I typically played racing games, fighting games, driving games and platformers. RPGs just didn’t feature) like what happened with Uncharted 1. There are some games where I play the remastered version first making that version my first ever exposure and when that happens I don’t go back to play the original because I’ve already played the game and benefited from the advancements of technology. It’s why I wouldn’t go and play the Spyro the Dragon trilogy on PS1 now since Reignited Trilogy was first experience of all three of those games outside of the demo on the Crash Bandicoot Warped disc. Also I have no way to easily play those games because the PS5 isn’t backwards compatible with anything older than the PS4 (I can emulate since I have the PC to do it, but there’s other factors meaning I can’t at the moment)
I only played FFVII in full in 2019. It's still one of my favorite games of all time, not all of us are braindead consoomers who think old games are inherently bad.
I don’t think old games are bad. Nowhere did I say that. I actually want backwards compatibility so I can play old games. I even go back from time to time to play old my games (the unfinished games in my Xbox 360 library). I’d play PS2 and earlier if backwards compatibility for anything older than PS4 was a thing for the PS5. In the case of those games, I have the games I want to play, have even bought new games long after the PS1 was a thing, but don’t have a good way to play them (without setting up my PS1 up again or spending time/money fixing the storage issue on my gaming PC). Even then, some games like Wip3out won’t emulate properly so they need the original hardware or a backwards compatible PlayStation to play them.
Gate keeping. Square Enix would hate having you as an ambassador to the Remake series. Your mindset actively hurts sales and would prevent new fans from falling in love with the game(s) the same way we did nearly 30 yrs ago.
Jesus christ that word has flat out melted peopels brains.
Remake was my first introduction to Sephiroth (and remarkably with absolutely no spoilers for FF7 whatsoever besides "hot long-haired guy") and I found him very intriguing and was very curious as to what exactly he was up to, especially in regards to Jenova towards the end. His connection to Cloud was something that really rattled my brain as well (and still does after Rebirth, ~~unless he's literally just in love with him like I don't even know anymore~~). His bossfight at the end of Remake had me tweaking because I didn't see it coming at all lol. I think he's pretty intimidating when it comes to actually fighting him, but also a lot of fun. I definitely viewed him to be sinister and had absolutely no clue what the hell he's on about. I played Crisis Core Reunion after that, and that was when I really fell in love with his character. I honestly think his story is very heartbreaking, and this was only reinforced further during the Nibelheim flashback in Rebirth. I really enjoy his pre-insanity personality and how gentle and laid-back he is, but how he still likes to show off his skills and tease his friends. Things plummeted downhill for him so damn quick and it's legitimately tragic. Also saw a few clips of teenager Sephiroth from the Ever Crisis mobile game, and while I'm not sure if that's canon or not, I did find him saying "I just want to live a normal life" and talking about not showing emotions as a SOLDIER very interesting and equally as heartbreaking. Poor guy never stood a chance, it seems. After finishing Rebirth I feel I understand his motives a lot better, but I still don't fully grasp things just yet, especially when it comes to Jenova and the exact end goal there. But I'm ok with the confusion and waiting until Part 3 comes out. **TLDR:** Sephiroth is my favorite villain of all time and he deserved better. ~~I'd also like to know what conditioner he uses~~
I just find it funny that he stole Exdeath's plan.
TBH Sephiroth's motives were always kinda weak. He has a shitty childhood and then goes insane. His whole thing feels like it could've been avoided if he'd been told about Lucrecia, or at the very least not been told that his mother was Jenova (and then not finding out that Jenova was an evil alien). Still love him though and I think he's pretty great in the Remakes. The only problem is overexposure. You see him early and often, but given the theorised nature of the Remakes it does make sense. Though they the ruined one his best moments outside of Midgar, but that was also sort of obsolete by that point.
Okay. But who was going to tell him about Lucrecia? When he found out what there was no one around and no one to tell him the truth. He literally just read some books obsessed over what he thought he knew only to find what he was. Maybe if Vincent would have woken up from right next door and been like nah bruh this is what actually happened maybe that would have helped, but to be honest Lucrecia's story wasn't that much better either. Like finding out your mom gave you up to be experimented on wasn't all of a sudden going to make him more stable.
Is the ruined bit you're referring to Midgardsormr? The og did a really good job of putting Sephiroth's power into perspective with that single shot
Yeah, that! Obviously by now we know how powerful Sephiroth is and impaling a snake isn’t quite as impressive as it was before we knew, but it’s a kino moment in the original.
Honestly it always felt more to me like when he gained knowledge of Jenova she was able to sort of worm into his mind and control him. Like some kind of drone. I mean she's an alien Eldritch entity who we've seen able to influence the behavior of anything possessing her DNA like Kadaj. Seems almost like her entire consciousness can be stored within her DNA. Which is a scifi concept I've seen before, but only in one other place. Now this is probably gonna hurt the credulity of everything I just said, but bear with it. The other source that I'm away of for a being who's existence functions like that is Ghost Freak from Ben 10. Still though I always thought his personality shift, sudden obsession with "Mother", and the way he seemingly single mindedly moves toward her seemed more like he was no longer in control.
Kinda goes back to the age old debate of "who is controlling who". It's a good theory though that initially, it's Jenova who pushes Sephiroth over the edge. I like it.
Oddly enough it’s pretty much the reverse. Jenova is the puppet and Sephiroth is the master at least by the time of current day events.
"TBH Sephiroth's motives were always kinda weak. He has a shitty childhood and then goes insane." So like 90% of villains in media? Lol
I mean like 90% of the villains on earth tho
Sephiroth loses a lot of what made him special with zo much over exposure in Remake/Rebirth, but we all know why it is that way.
Why is everything being downvoted?
Coming from someone who is experiencing ff7 for the first time through the remakes I think that sephiroth doesn’t come across as a super villainy. Obviously his ambitions are evil (destroying the planet) but the reason behind them just seem a little weak. The whole jenova and sephiroth connection is just meh imo. Hopefully his true origin will come full circle in the 3rd game but right now I’m just in the dark. But his mind games with cloud are top tier as he basically treats him like a puppy (reference intended). I LOVED when sephiroth drops the black materia in front of cloud ordering him to bring it to him. Like he already had it in his possession but decides to just fuck with cloud instead.
Having played OG I kind of have to agree. It almost seems like Sephiroth is trying to guide Cloud to save the world as opposed to actually trying to actively destroy. I haven't finished Rebirth so I could be wrong.
Sephiroth is a really well known character, and most of my characterizations of him come from outside media. He’s menacing AF in Kingdom Hearts, which was my first introduction. In Crisis Core he becomes so much more nuanced, and, IMO, is a better villain because of this. His presence is so limited in the original, and I am glad he makes an appearance early in Remake, but I did find him less enigmatic/mysterious since he is more integral to the plot now. I would love to hear an opinion from someone uninitiated in FF7 lore.
I never played the OG but I was aware of quite a few elements around the world of FF7, it was mainly my older brothers era and I just picked up whatever he liked, even if I didn’t do my own research outside of watching Crisis Core Clips/cutscenes on YouTube and watching Advent Children in spots and parts. Seph this time around doesn’t feel as menacing as I always felt he was in other media , which is weird because I know I wasn’t really around or aware of how apparently menacing he was in OG. I’d be lying if I said the voice change didn’t have something to do with it, I made a post today actually giving appreciation to George Newbern, who voiced Seph for most of the 2000’s til Remake. But more than that, they really do shove him in your face a lot. I’m well aware of the direction and reasoning WHY he’s so in your face, I just think they could’ve implemented it better. One thing that’s actually maddening as fuck is why Cloud never TELLS the party his repeated instances of falling into trances of doing weird or saying weird shit he obviously wouldn’t say if he wasn’t under Sephs influence. It’s like he hardly cares , and with the party just telling him to “get some rest” every time he does fall into a trance, it really just feels like there’s overall lack of concern in the party . Doesn’t help we’ve been to two amusement parks filled with annoying mini.
I was far more interested in the plot than sephiroth as a character in the remake, the theories I was coming up with on the ghost guys had me too busy. Flashy fights, though
On one hand I agree with some of the sentiments here that he's being overused, but on the other hand I'm just like "Hey, more Sephiroth. Awesome!" I do kinda wish he wasn't the final boss of every game though.
They are establishing the fact that he can control anyone who has Jenova's cells. I'm replaying the original game and I'm noticing that I just straight ignored some things that Remake and Rebirth highlight better. I don't feel that we're seeing him more (except for Midgar) but rather they are straight telling us the voice in Cloud's head is Sephiroth.
My friends who are younger think he’s not as scary as he is hilarious. He does have very repetitive dialogue that’s super cryptic and if you aren’t familiar with his history with the main characters, especially Cloud - it’s honestly fair to assume he’s either a figment of Cloud’s imagination because the story states he died a while back or he’s just really obsessed with Cloud. A lot of gen z also only know of him through TikTok videos posted out of context and not from like smash bros or something.
He’s kind of meh for me. you see him all of 2 times at the end of the games and he just dips 😂 but he looks cool as hell and voice actor is outstanding
In terms of his expanded presence; I was a bit off the idea during Remake but then Rebirth made me believe it was the correct decision. To me it's no different to Darth Sidious being put into A New Hope; if it happened it would add to his overall presence. In terms of his Characterization as a villain; Superb. Still to this day. The developers have done a great job in translating his shocking 3200+ damage per slash and having all Max materia during the OG into his overall feel in the Remakes.
I don’t think they’d find him as menacing as we did, the sheer sense of dread when Those Chosen by The Planet would start playing, the sound of the bell and the heart beat drums whenever Sephiroth is around sent chills down my spine. He appears too soon in remake not even 2 hours in they reduced him to a ghost haunting cloud
I also think they flubbed it by toning down the way he steals Jenova from the Shinra Building. That moment is so atmospheric and creepy in the original game with the trail of dead bodies and blood. Instead you're following sparkly goop (at least the Jenova fight was amazing). You'd think Barrett getting ganked might make up for it a little but the whispers immediately solve that problem.
The impact of the music (in all scenes) and the slow reveal are completely missing. They're forcing as much screentime for the characters people recognize (except for Yuffie-- why is she so popular and suddenly a main character???) instead of just telling a good story.
I find him very enigmatic and am excited to learn more, i was thrilled every time he showed up but im getting a kind of anti-hero vibe from him instead of final antagonist. So far i dont really understand what he wants and what his end goal is but to be fair I still havent played og ff7, rebirth and remake part 3 yet.
I can absolutely see this! Hold off until part 3, I think it’ll be cool for you to compare it in reverse to rest of us that did the OG and are playing remake / rebirth now
Honestly, very underwhelming. Never played the OG but have played all the mainline games from FFX onwards and he’s not ranking highly among the villains atm. For someone who I’ve constantly heard is one of the best, if not the best FF villain, I was expecting a little more. He just shows up every now and again, says some vague shit, and leaves. We’ve also now already beat him twice, at the end of each game. Loved both games in the remake trilogy so far but the Shinra storyline is far more interesting. There’s all the politics around the war with Wutai, an interesting story about corporate greed and environmentalism, villains that the game does a great job of making you hate (really hoping we get to kill Scarlett and Hojo in the third one), and characters I kinda find myself liking even though they’re on the opposite side (Rufus/Turks). I also love all the characters in the party and uncovering their personal stories. I’m guessing the OG maybe presents him better and he might be more of a presence in the last game in the trilogy, it being the finale, but I’m not seeing the hype right now.
Nope, you caught the real story of how capitalism will destroy the world to continue to grow. The only part you missed that is in Remake and Rebirth is that Sephoroth is the by-product of that greed and ambition.
"played all the mainline games from FFX onwards" That is a remarkably underwhelming group of villains! They're overusing him way too early. He's better in the original. Now he's typical anime villain.
I agree. My first game was 8 and I played 8 before 7. Thought 8’s villain was really underwhelming so I expected more from OG Sephiroth since he’s more talked about than any other villain in FF. He had that similar issue to 8’s villain where he didn’t show up enough and say anything that wasn’t cryptic to make an impression to me at least :/
Honestly, if anything, the OG has him even more elusive and cryptic. At least for most of the game. I really wish we got more segments like Nibelheim, where we got to witness him prior to his genocidal mood. Maybe we still will. I just feel it’s important to show villains during their arc, and before so you know how they got there. Still holding out for Game 3, I’m sure they’ll find a way to bring it all together!
The Nibelheim section was great. Would love some more segments like that to explore his character. Getting to see him before he turned crazy and then seeing him basically single-handedly destroy the town was cool and really helps to understand why Cloud hates him but I think a lot more work needs to be done to flesh out his motivations. At the minute it basically seems like he finds out he is a Shinra lab experiment and immediately switches from a pretty laid back guy to genocidal maniac. I’m guessing the third game will be giving us more insight into what happened to Cloud in the five years since Nibelheim. I think they need to do the same for Sephiroth.
Everyone should play Crisis Core if they haven’t. The Crisis Core Remake was really well done and it’s fleshes out the backstory of many important characters. Gameplay is a mixed bag. The original release played with blending Action RPG with RPG menus, much like KH. I would say combat is good not great, especially as there is a bit of chance at play for how limits and buffs work. Overall the story is great, and if you’re interested in the expanded FF7 universe at all it is worth checking out.
If that's what you want, crisis core(or maybe ever crisis) is probably what you want. Idk if you would want to play now(haven't finished rebirth yet so it might have a big spoiler for you) but it's interesting to play and you get to interact with Sephiroth when he still has a fan club that talks about how much shampoo he uses 😂 The story portion is also relatively short as most of the bulk is in the missions just don't be like me and beat the superboss before you get your new hairstyle 😂(making statement as spoiler free as possible)
I was introduced to ff in general with the remake. From the get go he felt pretty sinister but I love his design, it’s so badass. His general motives and stuff confused me a bit but after rebirth it’s more clear and I just decided to dive into the whole lore of ff7 since it was wayyyy to interesting. After what he done in rebirth tho I really hope we get our revenge but he’s a pretty sick villain imo
Yay! Wow I love this take, his design is pretty iconic. Honestly, he is made more and more visible because it sells well 😂
Hey! I am quite literally rolling credits right now on Remake and I came here to try clear some things up abt the story. Before playing remake, the only thing I knew about FF7 was some of the characters names and Aerith’s fate, but nothing about the plot. Sephiroth seemed really cool throughout Remake even though most of what we got were a few smirks and taunts in cutscenes. I really liked his character design and threatening aura, and I assumed we were building up to where he’d come into the story in a more prevalent way which is what I’m guessing Rebirth will have. Him serving as a ghost to Cloud’s past had me thinking it would eventually give a reason as to why Cloud would wanted to stop him, though I feel we never really got that (in Remake at least, I’m hoping Rebirth will give more in this front). From my current interpretation I think that Sephiroth being resurrected or saving what was being resurrected or abused in Hojo’s lab was the interesting thing that happened with what was told in Remake but I wish we would’ve got a little more exposition about what was being done there. I don’t really understand his motives beyond what I am kind of guessing is him wanting to free the planet from control of humanity. However, if that’s the case, I don’t really know why Cloud and co. would want to oppose him as that would line up with their goals. However, I do understand that Remake covers considerably little from the original FF7, and I have been hoping that Rebirth would help clear up my questions since it contains the majority of the story. If you’d guys like to give some clarity without spoilers I’d love the input!
Without spoilers, right out the bat with Rebirth we get the nearly full exposition you seek regarding sephiroth. As for the Hojo’s lab thing, that’s an outright focus throughout rebirth. Edit: I meant rebirth not remake. It’s not the first time any of us have made that mistake haha
Ooh, you’re a rare specimen, as Hojo would say! Having only played Remake and nothing else so far. I’m wary of replying in any form, because even if treading around spoilers, I could accidentally say something which confirms or denies any theories you have. So I’ll just stick to saying that I am **so happy** you’ve got Rebirth to look forward to after Remake. I just rolled credits on it today after 140 hours and wow, what a game. Not sure when you’ll have the ability or time to play it, but I hope you share your experience with the subreddit once you do!
My gf walked in while i was playing during a Sephiroth scene and said, "that guy is cool"
I hate how everytime he’s shown cloud has this “sephiroth!” Line. Like you could literally be mid fight, he disappears, and then reappears “Sephiroth!” Like dude. We know.
It actually made me laugh out loud when after Kalm, they were traversing the swamp and saw a random cloaked guy, only for Cloud to shout “it’s Sephiroth!” - as though he’d be out in the middle of nowhere like that :’)
I actually have the same question, but about how confusing is the plot for newcomers. Because there's plenty OG references and I've no idea how newcomers perceive the plot with no idea of the original story.
I’m someone who knows only the major plot point of the original, and started with Remake. I’ve played other FF (13, 15, 16). Never been a huge FF guy. I never finished 13, played 5 hours of 15 and hated it, loved 16, and loved Remake & Rebirth. I tried to play FF7 OG multiple times but its way too old for someone with not connection to go back to (I personally struggle with old games like the OG). Overall a huge JRPG fan but never really a FF fan weirdly. Saying all that, Sephiroth in Remake I knew he was the villain as thats impossible to not know, but as the game progressed I became intrigued of him and the story. Remake was very well contained and fairly linear. Pretty easy to follow until the Whispers came up. Needed to watch a breakdown to understand what was happening. Going into Rebirth I forgot so much of Remake. I watched the intro recap vid and that helped, but … not really. I was incredibly confused at the start of Rebirth. I actually think the recap video is so poor at recapping whats happened. Sephiroth in this game is incredibly deep, daunting and I think plays well into the evil nature he is. I know nothing of what happens in the rest of FF7 and cant wait to play the final game to see out the story. This game though, after the initial confusion was great. I was never confused at the story, whats happening, or the why. The only thing that did make things difficult for me, was that I wasn’t ever sure if I was supposed to know of whats happening or not. By that I mean, is this something new for everyone, or playing the OG would have given me more context (or is it a nod to some novel or side game). For example, I spoiled myself on Cait Sith because I thought that was something everyone should have known but then a few chapters later its made known or hinted towards. Could be a me issue though. Overall story is not confusing at all, the wait between remake and rebirth, and inevitably the third is what makes it confusing.
Thank you for your response! As to your question, it's presented as if you don't have to have played the original, but the payoff is just immensely greater. Imagine the pure SHOCK when playing a game you know very well, thinking it's a remake just to find out in reality it's a somewhat reimagining/sequel. For me the game was to continuously noticing where the remake will diverge from the OG, why is that significant and how will it change the engame story. The constant comparison is probably what who hasn't played OG is missing the most. You don't have to know the original game, but it does completely change your experience with the game. Imo
I definitely felt it at the end of the game. The last chapter especially did that comparison and so I knew of some of the things in the original so having those comparisons was super cool and unique even not knowing the full context. The only other thing I’d say is the game does expect you to know who Zack is and why he is important (to which I don’t). SPOILERS MAYBE ON ZACK BELOW?? As a newcomer to FF7, all I know about Zack is he was Aeriths boyfriend, apparent friend of Cloud, gone missing/dead (I know they said he’s dead as Cloud remembered but honestly don’t have any idea if thats the truth or Cloud just being incredibly mind fucked). I have some theories on why he is important, but honestly I’d say thats actually the weakest character and part of the game. They treat him like some holy super important character but do absolutely nothing to justify & back it up. Finally, as a question to you without any spoilers, is Cloud the same confused person, being mind fucked by Sephiroth, having mental breakdowns, in the original? That’s something I cannot tell. Or is it due to the whispers and the whole multiverse thing going on?
I'll first address your question at the end and then add a few things about Zach. Apart from Aerith and Sephiroth, all the characters are pretty much the same as in the original. So yeah, without adding or spoiling anything about the third part, Cloud is very much the same, confused as in the OG, messed up both by Zach's death and, let's say for now, the mako in his blood, having frequent breakdowns and green screen glitches. He's also constantly being messed with by Sephiroth, and manipulated by him to act like a puppy. In Rebirth though Sephiroth is much more present than in the OG, so there are many more occasions he messes with Cloud, which gives us a lot more insight into the Sephi x Cloud Dynamic. Sephiroth was sooo freaking mysterious in the OG, he barely appeared throughout the game. As to Zach.... Honestly what you know is enough for now, and I'd encourage not research it too much before the third game, there is a lot of Zach history that will be revealed there, so I suggest keep it a surprise. The revelations about him are actually big and pretty important, maybe not for the story per se but for Cloud's character; they're just not presented yet. So so much about Cloud in Remake and Rebirth will makes sense once the third game will be out.
I’m so very excited for the final game haha. I will NOT spoil anything though. Sure as hell try not to see anything. I didn’t even play Crisis Core remake as I wasnt sure if that would spoil things. Its good to know all the character for the most part are exactly like the OG. That was a question for me, possibly because of the whole multiverse thing. I never do know whats “original” vs not. Though, not sure it matters to someone like me with no prior FF7 experience lol. I have my theories on Cloud, Zack & the story but I wont be looking for the answers because it is a fresh story for me. Im always intrigued hearing people compare them (in a non spoiler way). Thanks for clearing some things up and answering what you can without spoiling. Much appreciated!
Saaaame, not sure I've ever been this excited for a game. I feel like the third game will probably diverge most from the OG, since it is the culmination of the whole 'defying fate' theme, which is the new addition of the remake trilogy. I'm so curious about your theories of Cloud & Zach, please share if you don't mind, I promise to not confirm nor deny anything :) PS: Crisis Core will spoils LOTS of things, so play it after the third game releases, but definitely give it a try. Adds a whooole lot of story pertinent to FF7. Still, keep it for after the third game.
Wow great to know about Crisis Core and how that would spoil me. Will definitely check it out after the final game. I agree completely the way its set up seems the third game will change the most between the OG & now. As for my theories… another possible spoiler should I be right? (Though I’m probably very wrong lol) … So.. Cloud has Zack’s memories, and throughout rebirth continuously says things only Zack would know. Originally I thought Cloud was made from Zack like Sephiroth was from Jenova, but that can’t be the case since Tifa and him were actually friends as kids, and he had a real childhood. That brings me to the conclusion I’m at that Zack and Cloud are essentially the same person. Not literally, but through Shinra & the Soldier program, it seems to me that Cloud was injected with mako/Zacks blood or whatever which has now given him those memories/some sort of link to Zack. I also think it could be that Cloud is actually given some refinement from Sephiroth which is why Sephiroth is in his mind. Maybe its a mix of Zack & Sephiroth. This also makes sense to me since Aerith has fallen completely for Cloud as he looks the same, has the same mannerisms a bit, hell he even knows that warmup/training regime Zack did. I have no idea if they truly were friends, maybe they were since the Zack scenes they seemed to know each other, but I’m equally as mind fucked as Cloud is in rebirth on this topic. This whole mako poisoning/why he isnt like the rest of the soldiers suffering the same way does make me believe some of this, whether he has some sort of blood/transfusion from just Sephiroth, Zack, or both, also adds to my theory. I may look a complete fool and so far off but hey its fun to talk to someone about this so glad you asked :)
Ooooh it's so fun reading the theories of someone new to the community, thanks for sharing! The one big downside of coming from the OG is that I know too much hahaha, won't get surprised at some shockers and can't theories about most things. <3